After years of playing rFactor and Race before coming to LFS, I found the feedback felt really strange. The steering feels radically different. In Race or rFactor, you can feel it trying to pull you straight again even during very shallow turns. This is the case even when using Realfeel, to get away from the 'faked' effects. However in LFS it doesn't really start pulling until you're turning quite hard.

This isn't really a complaint. I don't have a problem with how it feels, and I have no trouble drifting with the feedback the way it is. However I can't help but wonder what it is that makes the two feel so different. Is it a difference in the cars, or the physics engine?

The GMotor Engine and the Realfeel FFB Plug-in you use give car modders a lot of freedom in tweaking FFB effects. Modders and FFB setting builders may use any setting they feel happy with. Those who love to drift D1/FD style cars usually prefer highly sensitive setting so the front wheels can follow the direction of the car really quickly.

However, in LFS the FFB is more physics-based. The only thing you can tweak is the total force multiplier. When the multiplier is set, how much force you get at a specific moment during driving completely depends on tyre-road physics and suspension geometry.

The tyre physics in today's LFS is still far from perfect. Some people say the tyres gain grip in an wrong way from zero slip to a pretty high level, and are too "soft" or "forgiving". I'm not sure about the details, but I believe this has something to do with the FFB you get.

There is also some difference between the cars.
Crazy drift machines like the ones you drive in DriftEVO/OBS/D1AS usually have high-performance tyres with low aspect-ratio, which is more sensitive to steering inputs. Typical drift cars in LFS are "street" cars like XRT or FZ5 featuring normal street-level tyres with higher aspect-ratio.
Pro drift cars also give you much higher steering lock. If you use exactly the same wheel setting in both sim, you actually turn much more in rFactor with the same input, resulting in more sensitive feeling.


BTW, don't mention both drifting and rFactor in one thread here again ! Many close-minded people here don't like these two words.

Got it, I've seen how hostile people can get around here to an "arcade piece of shit", but I was curious enough to ask anyway.

Thanks for the informative post, I think I understand much clearer now. However there's still a few differences unaccounted for.

Both LFS and rFactor have the BMW Sauber F1 car, made by the official developers as opposed to modders, but they drive quite differently. In LFS, the steering has the same light feel near the middle as the other cars, whereas in rFactor the feedback feels tight even with the slightest movement.

The same goes for the Endurance Series GTs in rFactor and the GTR cars in LFS, although that may be a slightly unfair comparison. Is it possible that the tires being very soft and forgiving in LFS is reflected on all the other cars too?

Quote from Keling :

However, in LFS the FFB is more physics-based. The only thing you can tweak is the total force multiplier. When the multiplier is set, how much force you get at a specific moment during driving completely depends on tyre-road physics and suspension geometry.

That is also true regarding the RealFeel plugin, it takes the steering arm force as calculated by the physics engine, scales it into the required range via a single multiplier (MaxForceAtSteeringRack) and optionally applies smoothing and damping before outputting the scaled value to the FFB device. It's not possible to get much more 'physics based' than that

Firstly, sorry for my wrong explanation (and the "forgiving" mistake, sorry for my poor English) in the tyre physics part. I've edited the original post.

Endurance GT (or any other GTs in GM sims) vs LFS GT-Rs is not fair for such a physics discussion. The F1 cars in two sims maybe similar, however, the tyres in LFS (including those slicks the F1 use) are NOT made for any single car, but all cars that may use them. Actually R2/3 stands for the same compound no matter whether you're driving MRT or BF1, though the geometric models are different. Therefore there's no way to get around the problem if they only build a F1 model without updating the tyre physics system.

Alright, now I get it. Thanks Keling.

If LFS, there's a certain level of idealism with regards to the physics that you have to understand. The ideal is, if the physics work right for one car but not for another that , then the physics are wrong. If there's something odd about the way a vehicle handles or performs, you tweak the vehicle's design, not the underlying physics of the vehicle. If you need to tweak a vehicle's design using unrealistic values to achieve the desired result, then the physics are wrong.

If I understand correctly, rFactor is much the opposite. Each car has its own subset of physics and design properties. If something is wrong with the way a car handles, just tweak its various properties until you get the desired result, regardless of how well the design matches up with reality.

LFS tries to make everything right, even if it may feel off sometimes. rFactor tries to make everything feel right, even when it's not truly right.