From my experience 2 seconds difference on laptime make a race. And for now peeps slower than 2 seconds from the fastest ones just leave the servers (I am usually 3 seconds slower :tilt, and sometimes online play at all.

So I got an idea for meeting room that connects ppl with similar PBs. Every one can check-in checkboxes for wanted combos and can observe how many ppl of similar PB are willing to race at that combo. Then 1 click "lets race" and those ppl got LFSW message: "[Player] proposed a race at [track],[cars], people willing to join (number)". Then in meeting room they can agree on what server it can occur - there are plenty of empty servers.

This message could be displayed (and disabled) on servers also, so if you race somewhere you will get this message also.

That could make pick-up races much more popular, and I think there are many long time LFSers that would rather race occasionally than in regular leagues.

Not such a bad idea, but could be horribly difficult to make it work in practice I think, partly because there are just so many combos. Someone who is pretty decent at SO1 in (say) an FXO is probably going to be pretty decent at SO1R or SO2, but may not have ever set a time in that combo...

But maybe there's some way to keep the spirit of the idea and make it work somehow. People who are reasonably experienced with LFS tend to have favourite cars and tracks of course, but mostly they can also learn new ones reasonably quickly, and generally quicker for a new track I guess than a new car. So maybe what you want is some kind of figure of merit for how good someone is in a given car (average percentage of WR for their three best PBs in that car?). Then you can let a race proposer suggest a car and a track and people who are in the same "speediness" bracket as them would get notified?

Then again.... it can be nice to race against people who are quite a lot quicker than you, as you can learn from them (Agreed - it won't be close racing, and that's a lot of fun all by itself.)

Pretty decent idea. One of the things I think is good about iRacing (without having tried it, that is) is that it groups people of similar skill together in races, so no matter how fast or slow you are you'll almost always have people to race with. Like Neilser said I'm not sure how difficult it would be to implement and how well it would work. But a nice idea nevertheless

Quote from Neilser :

Not such a bad idea, but could be horribly difficult to make it work in practice I think, partly because there are just so many combos. Someone who is pretty decent at SO1 in (say) an FXO is probably going to be pretty decent at SO1R or SO2, but may not have ever set a time in that combo...

There is no problem with PB on a combo - you can join any empty server with that combo or create your own host just to set a PB.

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Then you can let a race proposer suggest a car and a track and people who are in the same "speediness" bracket as them would get notified?

Kind of combos wish list I think suggestion should appear on the "list" as long as someone made suggestion and has active session and would expire as soon as someone quits session to avoid "trash" wishes. Looking at wish list I would see separately (but both with button "lets race" or "join") my own propositions and made by ppl with similar laptime (excluding no laptime to avoid spam, possibility to block some racers' propositions) and I could be notified by LFSW when racing on servers about new propositions.

There are hundreds of empty servers as [post=1345153]mrodgers pointed out[/post], 200 of them allowing racers to change track and cars so there is no problem racing on server you wish. Problem is - how long you will be running around that track waiting for ppl to come instead of just letting know on the wish list - "I would like to race that combo"

The question is - numbers. How many "wishes" ppl would see? Would it be kind of spam or rather just a few.

Just a thought (and I admit up front I've not carefully thought this through) but maybe it's poss to implement this with no changes to LFS, i.e. entirely using queries to LFSW and some sort of notification mechanism (with an opt-in of some kind)?
Am I losing my mind or does LFS (like many online games) have a way to send a message to a racer whichever server they are on?

PB notification comes from LFSW as I reckon

Quote from AndRand :

PB notification comes from LFSW as I reckon

What I was thinking was that if Scavier are busy, then you might still have a shot at making this happen if third parties (i.e. ordinary users like you and me ) can do it. Of course, Victor might be on board with having a go, which would be massively better.

First of all, I think they dont let third parties to do programming beside servers' side (insim)

Second, I am not a programmer - I can think it over functionally or make logical graphs but I prolly I wouldnt programme this

Third - this needs some kind of test platform to try LFS instances connecting to master server

Fourth - ppl posting at this thread = 3... I dont think Scavier would be impressed

Hehe.
On your first point, I meant an entirely separate server, which simply fetches PB data from LFSW using the normal identkey system.
Second point: not certain I'd be able to program it either, mmm.
But your fourth point is the real killer

You know, it's a pity. These servers are great resource for LFS and could be used more for main purpose racing.

And vast majority of servers are private servers not the public ones

Why? my opinion is: ppl will rather race with someone they know, have similar racing attitude... and laptimes (this is a minor weak point in the idea above - servers would not restrict racers with big laptime difference. Well, a bunch of close racing fans would hold out a WR holder and kick a crasher )

Not much of a programmer myself, but...

It seems like a very interesting idea, thank you for it.
However I see a conflict of interests in your plan:
If you want to group racers per laptime / yellow flag ratio / hours racing per week or whatever, it will look like the iracing structure - only not as evolved. So not as good for sorting racers out, but yet as blind regarding affinities - the community that makes LFS different.

Also a question:
How to attract enough racers to make it work? For the system to work you must be able to offer decent races (min 5-7 cars) per "level" of whatever you call it. It will be near impossible to do that without a "launch" with advertising and planification... again think about the way iracing did that, not so easy...

I like it as an idea but it needs more thinking / planning, and then maybe you could attact the interest of a skilled programmer looking for a challenge within this forum

Quote from Mille Sabords :

If you want to group racers per laptime / yellow flag ratio / hours racing per week or whatever, it will look like the iracing structure - only not as evolved. So not as good for sorting racers out, but yet as blind regarding affinities - the community that makes LFS different.

For sure I wouldnt multiply criterias - only one criteria I can see is laptime. This is what makes a race, racecraft, racing etiquette for racers willing to be experienced is quite easy to achieve (thou in fact good admining would help - however as I mentioned before, a group gathered for close racing would cope with a crasher... and kicking faster guy for being faster would be a fail :leb: )
And it is better to stop pretending that people are not sorted out by laptime... Of course they are. The thing is they could have fun racing with each other. And handicaps are not a solution for driving.
Racing is a very competetive sport - those grouping by laptime could be a way of ranking ("hey, I am racing with Arrechee" or Bawbag )

Quote :

Also a question:
How to attract enough racers to make it work? For the system to work you must be able to offer decent races (min 5-7 cars) per "level" of whatever you call it. It will be near impossible to do that without a "launch" with advertising and planification... again think about the way iracing did that, not so easy...

I like it as an idea but it needs more thinking / planning, and then maybe you could attact the interest of a skilled programmer looking for a challenge within this forum

Totally agree Programming is the least part here because the concept is easier to programme(ize?) than insim systems like Airio.

In the way LFS operates there need to be some kind of snowball of racers that would promote at the begining along with devs this kind of "NEW IMPROVEMENT OF MEETING ROOM" - THE BEST PICKUP RACES AVAILABLE and so on.
iRacing had to plan this carefully because thay launched a new game so the marketing was the key part: it had to be presented mostly to the new players and wide enough to minimize the risk of widely planned game (Americans, they think big :tilt. That was harder because it was new, and it was easier because it was new.
Introducing something new is not an easy thing in a established community with some own habits. Yet LFS has a stable community of experienced racers and most of them miss the fun of early close community racing - in this idea I propose open and flexible communities rather then bound private groups racing on private servers.
LFS is also spread by the word of mouth and that is the way (not wide marketing) that appeals new racers so good racing experience is key point.

why not use the driver graphics a bit and allow for some pit walking before the race and a chat function, gives it a real race feel. spectators can look like spectators and you can throw in some bot/grid girls too

huh?

This how do I see this concept in details? (comments welcomed)


How can it look like?

On the user side:
A toggle between 2 tabs: List of servers and Wishlist
On the Wishlist 2 sections: My Wishes and Active Wishes
My Wishes can be active or disabled, with buttons to set combo (car, track), Add(only when one's PB is on the LFSW)/Edit/Remove/Name/Rename, Activate a Wish, Number of People with that wish (with possibility to see the list and send a message to any/all), Create/Join Chatroom for that Wish. There should be possiblility to copy/paste server link to the chat.
Active Wishes show Combo and Number of People with that Wish (and possibility to see who and communicate) and button Activate. When activated the Wish is transferred to My Wishes (although can be distinctive - Created Wishes from Joined Wishes)

On the masterserver side:
2 connected simple databases: Wishes (with fields like: id, start time, user, car, track, status (active/disabled), and so on) and list of combos - could be clustered (with another field - laptimes from WR+2 seconds every cluster) or relative - therefore filtering at user side would show his cluster or only Wishes with +/-1 seconds relative laptimes.
When user activates any wish (all wishes are inactive on LFS start) he starts a session and activated wishes become active . He will see wishes filtered by his laptime and would be notified by any change on that list.

I think thats mostly all

A few thoughts more:
Relative vs. clustered list of combos. Relative means that wishes would be filtered relative to one's laptime. Clustered means that cluster would be ridgid. There are pros and cons although I think clustered give some future possibilities.
Relative would give an effect of Floating Chatroom - Wish once activated by WR holder could end up as a combo wish of 10 seconds slower racers - someone 1s slower joins chatroom, WR holder quits, then joins another 1s slower... and so on - thats not a big thing, the Wish is for racers interested in that wish and it rather needs some kind of organized action.
However clustered version would in future allow to create servers dedicated for a combo and a restriction for a laptime range.

I was not studying the above ideas in depth, especially what concerns particularities of the system, but I like the general principle - ability to state your preferences and availability, gather more interested people, then race somewhere. The simpler any framework supporting the idea is, the better chance of success it can have.

However I do not think the idea to take present lap time into account is workable. LFSW lap times are not reliable and anyway you'll soon see that even very good drivers quite often do not have any lap time stored on LFSW for particular combo. And would people bother to make a decent lap time somewhere alone? I don't think so.

Race/preference announcement sounds nice though.

Quote from EQ Worry :

However I do not think the idea to take present lap time into account is workable. LFSW lap times are not reliable and anyway you'll soon see that even very good drivers quite often do not have any lap time stored on LFSW for particular combo. And would people bother to make a decent lap time somewhere alone? I don't think so.

If I liked the combo... sure I would :eclipsee_ - it takes just a few laps.

Quote from AndRand :

If I liked the combo... sure I would :eclipsee_ - it takes just a few laps.

But how would you know you liked the combo if you'd never tried it?

Concerning lap time I'd like to note two things:

1) Even very generous lap time requirement (say 5 or even 8 percents above WR) would mean that at least half of the people milling around at the proposed race time could not join. Often I see people requiring to put tight limits on required lap time, say within 3 or even 2 percents of WR. It never works, because 3/4 of the drivers cannot join then and the rest soon loses interest, leaving the server empty. (Note that the ranking system actually tries to fight this problem - it doesn't require any lap time to join, but it requires proof of driving ability.)

2 ) Lap time actually does not say much about driving style of the guy. So often I see really fast people causing immense havoc, either because they simply drive their line and do not care about anything else, or because they expect all slower cars will jump out of their way. And so often I see a bit slower drivers racing very sensibly, always knowing about their surrounding area, giving resistance when reasonable and letting go when obviously the resistace would lead to crash.

These are the reasons why I do not care much about lap time. However a framework for calling a freely accessible race (or series of short races) at specific combo at specific time and at specific server seems like a very good idea to me.

Sorry that I have not much to contribute to this topic with, but - this is a great idea. It could somewhat bring the "same" people togeter, and make it more equally.

Also, have you played TrackMania? There you can compare ranks, and find servers that are best suited compared to your rank. Excellent system!

Quote from Neilser :

But how would you know you liked the combo if you'd never tried it?

offline

Quote from EQ Worry :

Concerning lap time I'd like to note two things:

1) Even very generous lap time requirement (say 5 or even 8 percents above WR) would mean that at least half of the people milling around at the proposed race time could not join. Often I see people requiring to put tight limits on required lap time, say within 3 or even 2 percents of WR. It never works, because 3/4 of the drivers cannot join then and the rest soon loses interest, leaving the server empty. (Note that the ranking system actually tries to fight this problem - it doesn't require any lap time to join, but it requires proof of driving ability.)

that's why I propose laptime difference (lets say 2s) - ridgid (making clusters: WR - WR+2, WR+2 - WR+4, ...) or relative (1s difference from one's laptime

Quote :

2 ) Lap time actually does not say much about driving style of the guy. So often I see really fast people causing immense havoc, either because they simply drive their line and do not care about anything else, or because they expect all slower cars will jump out of their way. And so often I see a bit slower drivers racing very sensibly, always knowing about their surrounding area, giving resistance when reasonable and letting go when obviously the resistace would lead to crash.

These are the reasons why I do not care much about lap time. However a framework for calling a freely accessible race (or series of short races) at specific combo at specific time and at specific server seems like a very good idea to me.

I dont expect such small solution to do it all (IMO racing etiquette is not hard to achieve by a hotlapper) - like VeryEnd noticed: it just groups ppl with similar racing skill.

I like, would make online racing more fun! Being last every race is not much of a cakewalk. =)

it is quite easy to notice that ppl slower thaan 2s from the quickests on the server just dont show up.

Id like to suggest an idea with this as well
How about adding people together from the same area as well. This would reduce lag on many servers and make accidents less frequent due to lag.

I like this idea, hope it gets implemented sometime soon ^^