People have said about the Frex Wheel upgrade they use for there DFP Wheel ( basically a converstion kit which enables you to add a REAL Momo or what ever to your DFP ) and replace the plastic wheel that is there.

Now I have been very sceptical about these, thinking, does it really make a difference?

Well today I had the great pleasure of popping over the fellow LFS Racer Danowat house, watching BTCC on a TV screen that is so BIG i felt like I was at a cinema ( awesome quality though ) and shed loads of gadgets ( Danowat changes name to Inspector Gadget )

He also had a DFP with the FREX Converstion kit, and a nice Suede Momo on there, with LFS, obviously and GT Legends and the ** cough ** Rfactor.

Now my personal review. OMG its feckin awesome. It just feels so nice, smooth, real and and , I want one. It just puts a total new perspective of Sim racing ( for me that is ) He had it very fine tuned on all games ( Yes before you ask, I raced in the cockpit view, which is not normal for me ) and well, what a difference.

GT Legends, actually really felt nice to drive. I had the demo, and it was awful, and Dan said, game is totally different, and it is, but with this wheel, its awesome not aweful.

RFactor, glad I didn't buy it, sorry Rfactor drivers, but for me, that is aweful ( yes I tried default game and F3 Euro Series Mod )

Its just you here people buying this equipment and saying how good it is, and you ask yourself, does it really make that much of a difference? In my honest opinion, YES IT DOES.

I am going to look ( as I don't know yet ) to see if they do the upgrade for the Momo, and if they do, I will be driving over to Dans so he can fit mine.

Dan, thanks for a great afternoon out m8, and I WILL be back again, and next time, I won't leave your home without it ROFL

I've got a real Sparco 285mm suede finish on mine. All I can say is if you're going to do a Frex conversion, which in my book is a 'must', get a 285mm wheel. You can get them from Demon Tweaks. I've recently gone over to 900° and it is FANTASTIC!
Fordie, I hope you were converted to cockpit view. Join the real sim drivers.

Quote from Doorman :

Fordie, I hope you were converted to cockpit view. Join the real sim drivers.

I am trying beleive me, its just the major blind spots I am getting used to. No to be fair, I do the use "wheel" view, only because I can see the apex's better and judge my cornering better, non of this Chase Cam view stuff. But tell you something, feels straight actually sitting in the car ROFL

i have a FREX too, amazing bit of kit.

*plans major Norfolk sim-racing hardware theft*

Yeah, it is a good bit of kit, of course it's quite expensive, but IMO well worth it.

The original DFP wheel would get very sticky and uncomfortable after more than 10mins use for me (must have dodgy hands or something), that and the fact that I didnt like the paddle "shifters" meant that the Frex kit was a must for me.

Ok, so I very much doubt it has/will make me any faster, but from a pure comfort/immersion point of view, its a must have, I would well recommend one.

Not to difficult to fit, took about an hour I reckon, plus, you can have problems, I inadvertantly shorted the shifter button with an alu bracket and made the shifter paddles live, which would give a little tingle when touched LOL.

All in all, its a well made bit of kit, one thing to be aware of is delivery, it took a month to get mine!.

Yeah, was a nice afternoon Shaun, good to see ya mate, GTL, yeah, its not as bad as some make it out to be, it just takes/took a little bit of tweaking and setting up to get it to feel good, and rF, yeah, less said about that the better LOL.

Dan,

I am in the same boat as you Fordie

I have just switched to in-cockpit view and it does take a little getting used to. However, what I miss in accuracy on the corners, I think I make up in feedback from seeing the car movements. The subtle movements of the car give alot of feedback that you don't really get in bumper-cam. So far it hasn't slowed me down, but I am maybe slightly less-consistant at the moment. IMO, the blindspots are the biggest killer with this view! ATM I am toying with using ALL mirrors as if you just use 'real' mirrors, sometimes they are cut off in the wider cars (i.e. GTRs) compared to the narrower cars (LX4).

I would like an option to switch off real mirrors but keep the virtual mirror.

Anyway, as for the FREX stuff, I have also looked at it, but from what I recall the MOMO doesn't seem to be supported for the wheel upgrade

Cockpit view:

Seeing the dash, A-pillars, etc. in cockpit view is a great benefit with the way your head moves and bounces around is great feedback. As for the blind spots, just as you can't see the wheels or bumper or what-not in real life, you "learn" where they are and can put the car where ever you want without thinking.

You shouldn't be looking at right in front of you anyways. You should be looking ahead past the current corner you are in. It is difficult to do and I end up looking right out in front of the car just ahead alot myself. But, coming from RL motorcycle experience, I know that is what I have to do. A perfect example is the chicane at Westhill with the tires. You should be looking through that first left even before you can see there. If I am looking at the first left when I'm ready to turn in, I mess it up and end up slow there. If I'm focused up past the tires at the first left, then I'm blowing through there full throttle and hitting the apexes and line perfectly. Always look at where you want to be ahead of time and you will get there.

Does that above make any sense? I can't really describe it in words well. Those of you with street motorcycle experience know what I mean. You do not need to see the wheels or the exterior of the car to put the car exactly where you want it.

who are u adressing when u say "sry rfactor fans" ?
there are only a couple of people that bought that amazing DIY game without DIY tools, and no fans to be found among them.

Quote from mrbogeyman :

Anyway, as for the FREX stuff, I have also looked at it, but from what I recall the MOMO doesn't seem to be supported for the wheel upgrade

How can you NOT get one?

Cheap as chips now. I'm sick as a parrot, I got mine over a year ago when they were £100+ But it's still going strong.

Sorry for sounding like an ass, but what exactly does the mod do? Is it simply a way of attaching a different wheel to the old wheel mechanism? Or does it also change the FFB and general wheel behaviour?

Different wheel and proper shifters

Quote from Gnomie :

Sorry for sounding like an ass, but what exactly does the mod do? Is it simply a way of attaching a different wheel to the old wheel mechanism? Or does it also change the FFB and general wheel behaviour?

The Frex kit itself is a hub that fits onto the DFP base with 6 large buttons that are easy to find and aren't going to be pressed accidentally like you find on real wheels. The wheel is mounted further away from the base so there's plenty of room for your fingers and the big aluminium shift paddles mounted on the back of the hub which have a nice motion and are much more sturdy than the plastic ones. The wheel itself can be any standard fit racing wheel that bolts straight onto the hub. The FF motor/gearing system remains unchanged but a lot of the slack and looseness in the standard DFP is removed with the high quality aluminium hub and a much more solid wheel. The change to the overall feel is fantastic.

This is my brothers. I'm jealous Feels bloody great.

I want a momo wheel for my G25

Quote from The Moose :

This is my brothers. I'm jealous Feels bloody great.

Waah! That looks awesome.

Kind of off topic, but here we go: what is the next "step up" from G25/911? Is there any retail wheels in the [250,2000]£ price range? Not that I could ever afford one, but I'd like to know.

Quote from Gnomie :

Waah! That looks awesome.

Kind of off topic, but here we go: what is the next "step up" from G25/911? Is there any retail wheels in the [250,2000]£ price range? Not that I could ever afford one, but I'd like to know.

I haven't had time to do much research, but as far as i can tell there's not a lot of choice of wheels. One that's coming up is https://shop.interactiveracing ... wproduct.asp?ProductID=79
From the description it sounds good.

Expensive pedal sets are widely available, but wheels don't appear to be.

Is there anything commercially produced (a la frex) for G25 conversion?

A true racing wheel, and perhaps something to fix the derth of wheel mounted buttons, on a G25 would be fairly fantastic.

Quote from Gnomie :

Waah! That looks awesome.

Kind of off topic, but here we go: what is the next "step up" from G25/911? Is there any retail wheels in the [250,2000]£ price range? Not that I could ever afford one, but I'd like to know.

Personally I think the Frex is in a different league to the Porsche wheel, which is good does a lot more competently but just doesn't have that edge. IIRC it would set you back £220 to get the DFP, Frex converter and Momo wheel I've got new (ask Dannowat he bought it all). As a result you get something truly astonishing but you get DFP pedals and no shifter. Whether it's worth more than the DFP is down to personal opinion, I'd certainly rather spend the money on the Frex rather than the 911 wheel and I'm glad I didn't get a G25 which I hesitated about when the Frex offer came up. I suppose you could ask Dannowat what his opinion is seeing as he upgraded to a G25.

There aren't very many high quality FF wheels on the marke, there used to be several companies making affordable non-FF wheels, I don't know if they still do, a lot of serious racers used to go for these over the cheap and tacky FF wheels due to their much greater precision and better feel.

There isn't a wheel that costs more than 2000£, or even close to that. Was that a typo?

And that BRD wheel has been "soon to be released" for years, has it finally been released? Or is you brother, moose, beta tester for them?

As to other wheels, there are few:
- Ecci, high quality, no FF
- VPP, high quality, poor driver support. Also the wheel is said to have the internals of some cheapo wheel
- Adventage1 non-FF atm. but an ff version is to be released sometime soonish
- Thomas enterprises, high quality, no FF
- then there is the frex wheel coming too

There really isn't any good ffb wheels in the price range between 300€ and 1000€.

My choise would probably be Ecci wheel, CST pedals and frex H-shifter... Combined price of 2000€+

Quote from Hyperactive :

And that BRD wheel has been "soon to be released" for years

Well, as we all know BRD are partners with nKPro. "soon to be released" could mean anything. Expect to see it released in 2010

Quote from The Moose :

Well, as we all know BRD are partners with nKPro. "soon to be released" could mean anything. Expect to see it released in 2010

Which one?

Quote from Hyperactive :

There isn't a wheel that costs more than 2000£, or even close to that. Was that a typo?

And that BRD wheel has been "soon to be released" for years, has it finally been released? Or is you brother, moose, beta tester for them?

As to other wheels, there are few:
- Ecci, high quality, no FF
- VPP, high quality, poor driver support. Also the wheel is said to have the internals of some cheapo wheel
- Adventage1 non-FF atm. but an ff version is to be released sometime soonish
- Thomas enterprises, high quality, no FF
- then there is the frex wheel coming too

There really isn't any good ffb wheels in the price range between 300€ and 1000€.

My choise would probably be Ecci wheel, CST pedals and frex H-shifter... Combined price of 2000€+

Thanks for the list!

I know some of the full-motion simulators come with special FFB wheels included. The reason I wrote 2000£ max was to not include the full simulators.

The not-yet-released FREX wheel does look very promising indeed from what I've seen of it. I wonder what the price tag will be on that one.. I imagine it will be quite astronomical, especially with the hydraulic pedals too.

The FREX is a very, VERY good upgrade, trust me, if my DFP hadn't have broken, I would still have it, pretty certain I prefer my old DFP/FREX combo to my G25, althought the FFB is a bit nicer on the G25 and the pedals are better, the wheel itself is nowhere near as nice.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Which one?

Both probably