What's the difference between COT & old rule in NASCAR?

[JJ72]

Someone give lizardfolk a lollypop so he'll stop crying?

[SidiousX]

Originally Posted by hansonator69

The COTs ARE practically the same.
Only the hood area is different, but even then they are still relatively the same.

Originally Posted by TagForce

Uhmmm...

Yes they are, as per the RULE BOOK!

All the cars need to fit the same template, where as the old rules had a different template for each make.

Please read the nascar car shapes thread...I'm done arguing with people who don't know what the hell they are talking about

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=61208

Originally Posted by SidiousX

Technically, they aren't the same bodies. They just have to fit a template, they do have different bodies, the differences are subtle, but they are there.

TOYOTA
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...67440.1-lg.jpg

CHEVY
http://www.jayski.com/schemes/2007/n...-COT-front.jpg

DODGE
http://assets.speedtv.com/images/eas...ahne_car_m.jpg

FORD
http://www.mattkenseth.com/photos/20...39;sCOT700.jpg

If you look in the front of the nose, you can definitely see they are very different. They also have different engines(in relation to your question about the decals)

[xaotik]

Seems like there are two American mysteries that cause turmoil in this forum: what happened on 911 and NASCAR.

[PMD9409]

Originally Posted by SidiousX

quotes and stuff

I said same basic body, and you can't say they are not since they all fit on the same template.

http://i.a.cnn.net/nascar/2006/news/...usty.jarre.jpg

What's the third car in line?

@JJ: He fo real.
@xaotik: LMAO!

[SidiousX]

Originally Posted by PMD9409

What's the third car in line?

Pretty sure it's a dodge

And those aren't even the CoT's they use..... It's obvious when you look at the grilles.

[PAracer]

Originally Posted by PMD9409

http://i.a.cnn.net/nascar/2006/news/...usty.jarre.jpg

What's the third car in line?

That picture is from the testing phase of the COT. They're prototypes.

Who cares if they're different or not? The manufacturers are essentially sponsors at this point. Perhaps more involved than Cheerios, Budweiser, and National Guard, but whatever. There isn't much 'Ford' about Matt Kenseth's car.

Every team (those that build their own cars) uses a different car. They're not Fords, Chevys, Dodges, and Toyotas. It's Hendrick, Roush, MWR, Petty. From Engines, to chassis's, to bodies. They're all different 'brands' unto themselves. Even the bodies. Nascar gives the teams a bit of room to engineer. In other words, the templates have a tolerance that allows the teams to do their own thing.

[SidiousX]

Originally Posted by PAracer

That picture is from the testing phase of the COT. They're prototypes.

Who cares if they're different or not? The manufacturers are essentially sponsors at this point. Perhaps more involved than Cheerios, Budweiser, and National Guard, but whatever. There isn't much 'Ford' about Matt Kenseth's car.

Every team (those that build their own cars) uses a different car. They're not Fords, Chevys, Dodges, and Toyotas. It's Hendrick, Roush, MWR, Petty. From Engines, to chassis's, to bodies. They're all different 'brands' unto themselves. Even the bodies. Nascar gives the teams a bit of room to engineer. In other words, the templates have a tolerance that allows the teams to do their own thing.

Exactly my point. Even the engines are different(in some cases for the same manufacturer) One example is Red Bull Racing and Joe Gibbs, RBR uses TRD motors, and Joe Gibbs build their own motors.

[Falcon140]

The minor differences crap is getting old. IMO they are the same cars. If you're in the stands, all you see is a cookie cutter car with stickers on it.

[PMD9409]

Check my wording, keyword=basic.

The third car is a Ford, and whether or not they are prototypes or not doesn't matter. There are no stickers (grill and headlights) that are telling you what it is, and you get to see how similar they really are. I know that all bodies are different for aero purposes, but I was refering to looking at it from a "basic" point of view.

[SidiousX]

Originally Posted by PMD9409

Check my wording, keyword=basic.

The third car is a Ford, and whether or not they are prototypes or not doesn't matter. There are no stickers (grill and headlights) that are telling you what it is, and you get to see how similar they really are. I know that all bodies are different for aero purposes, but I was refering to looking at it from a "basic" point of view.

The nose of the cars being different is pretty "basic".

[PAracer]

Lol. I just thought of something. Why don't we have a thread about broccolli? We could have a few people in favor, then a dozen or so folks rambling on and on about how much they hate the stuff. All of this banter about "NASCAR this, and Nascar that" really the same thing.

For what it's worth, F1 cars look pretty similar to me. Swoopy open wheel cars with wings tacked on. Same with bikes, dragsters, v8 supercars. They all pretty much look the same. Perhaps that's why they're in the same race.

[lizardfolk]

Originally Posted by PAracer

Lol. I just thought of something. Why don't we have a thread about broccolli? We could have a few people in favor, then a dozen or so folks rambling on and on about how much they hate the stuff. All of this banter about "NASCAR this, and Nascar that" really the same thing.

For what it's worth, F1 cars look pretty similar to me. Swoopy open wheel cars with wings tacked on. Same with bikes, dragsters, v8 supercars. They all pretty much look the same. Perhaps that's why they're in the same race.

Yes...the mob mentality of this forum is quite dreadful at times.

Originally Posted by amp88

Disagree. There are several substantial differences between the FG Falcon and the VE Commodore including the front and rear lights, front grille, front airdam and rear wing.

Hmm, actually I would disagree but if you can prove me wrong I'd welcome it. I've attached pictures of the V8 SuperCars. From the front shot with the massive amounts of stickers the cars look essentially the same for me except for the massive rear wing.

When it comes to the nose, when you remove some of those stickers, the nose have slightly different grills and headlights but that's about it (as far as i can tell). Chassis wise I really cant see anymore different than that.

They still look incredibly similar to me.

[JJ72]

Originally Posted by lizardfolk

When it comes to the nose, when you remove some of those stickers, the nose have slightly different grills and headlights but that's about it (as far as i can tell). Chassis wise I really cant see anymore different than that.

They still look incredibly similar to me.

hm, I wouldn't go as far to say you are blind.....but they have different roof lines, different waist lines, different fender design, different front and rear end because they were actually modified from the real car. No fender between those cars are the same.

The chassis themselves are modified from the stock as well, instead of a spaceframe/tubular chassis build from scratch.

Which can't be said with the Nascars, which is modified from a common template to resemble a real car.

[lizardfolk]

Originally Posted by JJ72

hm, I wouldn't go as far to say you are blind.....but they have different roof lines, different waist lines, different fender design, different front and rear end because they were actually modified from the real car.

The chassis themselves are modified from the stock as well, instead of a spaceframe/tubular chassis build from scratch.

Which can't be said with the Nascars, which is modified from a common template to resemble a real car.

Lets leave NASCAR out of this for a moment, I again looked at screenshots of V8 SuperCars and looked back at the front shot of the pic I just posed.

They just look like...sedans...that's it. I mean aside from the slight variation in headlights and grill. They both look extremely similar. Not similar to the point of indistinguishable. But still extremely similar. If you can get me a comparison photo of the V8 Super Commodore and Falcon. Then I might be able to see it, but I still dont see it as quite different

[JJ72]

Originally Posted by lizardfolk

Lets leave NASCAR out of this for a moment, I again looked at screenshots of V8 SuperCars and looked back at the front shot of the pic I just posed.

They just look like...sedans...that's it. I mean aside from the slight variation in headlights and grill. They both look extremely similar. Not similar to the point of indistinguishable. But still extremely similar. If you can get me a comparison photo of the V8 Super Commodore and Falcon. Then I might be able to see it, but I still dont see it as quite different

stickless stock cars so you can see the difference in lines.

and side shots for better clarity:

[lizardfolk]

Originally Posted by JJ72

Is that the same model that V8 Supercar uses (i mean the EXACT model?) Cause that V8 Supercar looks like a "tube framed" version of this. I know the standard difference between the Falcon and the Commodore. But when it comes to V8 Supercar specs they just look similar to me.

It might be the massive amounts of stickers. But they still look similar.

[hansonator69]

Originally Posted by JJ72

]Which can't be said with the Nascars, which is modified from a common template to resemble a real car.

Originally Posted by PAracer

Who cares if they're different or not? The manufacturers are essentially sponsors at this point. Perhaps more involved than Cheerios, Budweiser, and National Guard, but whatever. There isn't much 'Ford' about Matt Kenseth's car.

Good point, i couldn't agree more.

[JJ72]

V8 supercars don't have "tube framed" versions, they use the exact same chassis as the road car with roll cages installed, and most of its panels.

That's why I show you a stickerless pic, cos all that sticker really disguised the line of the car.

[lizardfolk]

Originally Posted by JJ72

V8 supercars don't have "tube framed" versions, they use the exact same chassis as the road car with roll cages installed, and most of its panels.

That's why I show you a stickerless pic, cos all that sticker really disguised the line of the car.

I responded too fast. I only saw 1 photo. I'll take a careful look at the other photos now.

Mind posting stickerless pics of the Commodore?

[JJ72]

I am trying to find one, but a clean racing version with a good angle is hard to find:



not a real photo, but I guess should be accurate enough.

I think they are different enough if you can tell by it's roof line and proportion alone:

The falcon has longer overhangs, rounder profile, more horizontal and lower waistline.

While the commodore has shorter overhang, more aggressive proportion and sharper edges, with a higher and rising waistline.

[lizardfolk]

Ah ha...I'm seeing it now. Thanks for the pictures

[JJ72]

Your welcomed.

But really having similiar looking cars doesn't have anything to do with the quality/importance of a series, so I don't know what the fuss is about.

[Falcon140]

This thread has gotten slightly out of hand.

[TagForce]

Originally Posted by Falcon140

This thread has gotten slightly out of hand.

Ya think? :P

[AstroBoy]

Lizard come drive on the roads here in Australia and you can see the diffrences, without even thinking about it.

Nascar car meh, they essentially have the same body and diffrent front ends. Im leaving it at that.

Both sides have their arguments but not one idea can be right nor can it be wrong, everyone has their own oppinions and takes on the same issue. There can only be a general agreement not a exact agreement.

[amp88]

Originally Posted by lizardfolk

Hmm, actually I would disagree but if you can prove me wrong I'd welcome it. I've attached pictures of the V8 SuperCars. From the front shot with the massive amounts of stickers the cars look essentially the same for me except for the massive rear wing.

When it comes to the nose, when you remove some of those stickers, the nose have slightly different grills and headlights but that's about it (as far as i can tell). Chassis wise I really cant see anymore different than that.

They still look incredibly similar to me.

The point I was trying to make was that there are enough significant differences between the VE Commodore and the FG Falcon to tell them apart at a glance (even without the sponsors stickers). The body dimensions are largely the same (it is a parity formula after all), but the differences between the two current V8 Supercars models are much more obvious than the differences between the different brands of COT in NASCAR.

[Mustafur]

The V8 supercars are just heavily modifed versions of the production car.
each car is easily recognised and a few changes in width and length of the car to maintain equality.

pretty similar to say DTM