LFS Patch U was released one year ago today. U was basically patch T - which introduced the new tyre and aero physics improvements along with the improved Aston and BF1 - with bug fixes. Has it been a year already? Time's a strange thing; in some ways, it doesn't seem that a whole year could have passed since then, and yet, in others, it all seems to have happened a long time ago, certainly longer than a year. I can't help but wonder what LFS will be like this time next year?
#1
- BuddhaBing
My, How Time Flies
Didint know that maybe patch x be out today or this week.
(felplacerad)
DELETED
by felplacerad
I'd guess not much different 
I'm getting back into LFS, but feel it's only temporary until something else comes along.. it's just not progressing anything _near_ fast enough to keep me interested unfortunately... yes, it feels pretty good to drive now, better than much of the "competition" but that won't last (just as the "netcode king" title has slipped) and in just about every other department, the "competition" are years ahead.
LFS now feels like the old 80s classics.. they were my childhood. LFS looks and feels dated now. I still play the classics when I can find them, but it happens in phases.. they're cool for a blast, but don't hold my interest for any lengthy time due to being very limited (unless they're an exceptional game).. much like LFS.
Regards,
Ian
I'm getting back into LFS, but feel it's only temporary until something else comes along.. it's just not progressing anything _near_ fast enough to keep me interested unfortunately... yes, it feels pretty good to drive now, better than much of the "competition" but that won't last (just as the "netcode king" title has slipped) and in just about every other department, the "competition" are years ahead.
LFS now feels like the old 80s classics.. they were my childhood. LFS looks and feels dated now. I still play the classics when I can find them, but it happens in phases.. they're cool for a blast, but don't hold my interest for any lengthy time due to being very limited (unless they're an exceptional game).. much like LFS.
Regards,
Ian
What's up with you Ian? You always have some pesimistic reply to these kind of topics..
Everybody moans and moans how LFS progress is slow (especially you) and yet, time flies since i installed LFS S2 alpha, i, like Budha, doesn't feel like one year has pass since patch U, you know why? because i didn't explore 20, 30 % of this wonderful game, i didn't find my maximum on ANY combo (can anyone actually know what is his maximum?)..
I feel like i just installed it, even after almost 2 years (played S1 demo also but briefly), there's just so much to do, so much combos i didn't drive.. so many great drivers to meet, so many great battles to have...
cheer up, the glass is half full...EDIT: i didn't see your edit, now my post sounds even better..
I haven't moaned about this for a long time really. I've mentioned it maybe twice in the last week.. but I haven't been around LFS for 2 years until very recently.. it looks and feels very much the same as I remember it back in patch S / R when I stopped playing with the exception that the tyres don't feel like blancmange now (they actually feel pretty good).
Let's see.. I like BL1, Westhill, a couple of SO configs and a couple of Aston configs. I like the XRT, FZ5 and LX6. The rest I couldn't care less if it was removed from the game.. just my feeling however and don't expect anyone to agree.
I pre-paid for S2 over 2 years ago and still haven't received my full S2 product*.. soooooooo much is either missing, arcade style or just plain broken. Granted, not everything and it can still somewhat be enjoyed, but look outside of the box.. look at other games available.. people might not like the engine they run on, but they're still years ahead in development state than LFS is. By the time LFS catches up, people will be running boxes with DX20 and we'll all be getting 5000fps due to hardware upgrades.
I played S1 for 12 months before S2 was released, a short trial of S2 that felt crap beyond belief (back in P patch etc). All in all, LFS has survived here well with me.. normally I get bored of a game within 6 months. rFactor only held my interest for 2 years as I was modding more than I was playing.
What can I say.. I had hoped LFS would have been final a _long_ time ago.. but alas.. it isn't.
Regards,
Ian
* Before anyone mentions this 'alpha' bullshit, wake up.. it's either alpha or it isn't.. people seem to use this tag when it suits them.. when people complain about LFS, yet also in the same breath tell people "it doesn't feel like an alpha version, buy S2!".. so which is it? alpha or not?
I wonder why people who give the impression that they don't play or give a shit about LFS even dwell around the forums.
Ahh.. the fanbois come a running
How _dare_ someone criticise the perfect LFS sim! :rolleyes:
Regards,
Ian
ian, is there another sim that feels fresher to you than lfs?
Lol, and agreed with your earlier post.
No. I'm just asking why you keep coming here if you don't like it? Because you can't say you don't like LFS if you seem obviously interested what's going on, people aren't usually interested on things that they don't like. Or at least I wouldn't be.
And OMGzzz. He has one of those mighty fanboy cards! Flee to the hills!
And OMGzzz. He has one of those mighty fanboy cards! Flee to the hills!
I'm back after quite a while away, I seem to be alot crapper than what I remember but i'm loving the game all over again, and I always think wow, I've not tried this combo before. I'm looking forward to s2 coming out properly and ofc purchasing s3 asap, things can only get better 
Time really has flown since I first purchased lfs, it's unbelievable.
Time really has flown since I first purchased lfs, it's unbelievable.
It's not like that, really... i see what you meen, but LFS can only get better, and it IS getting better lately, and it's getting updated frequently, do you know what Scawen holds in his pocket for the future, do you know what Eric is doing?... and i honestly doesn't see how LFS got dated, every other "revolutionary" titlle is bollocks compared to LFS, rFactor, GTR 2, GTR 2 with revenge, RACE, netkarPRo(it feels like ISI game to me, honestly) and the fancy graphics??
In all honesty, and i know what i am talking about, i am a graphic designer, every other titlle looks fake and game-like, not one looks real to me.. and car movements, give me one titlle that car is behaving properly on the track(and i am not talking about physics now, i am talking about graphical demonstration of car movement on the track)..
LFS set way high bars for it's time, it's way ahead of anything out there, many people don't realise that, it's just the stupid alpha term in its name, and low poly cars and objects that make it look dated...
(I usually dont open my mouth in discussions like these, Ian, but since its you ... )
Oh, come on. What did you expect? We all know what happens when a post like yours pops up. This thread will most likely be a war zone in a few hours. Though, I must insist: Saying that we can not bear having people critize our sim is not very fair. No one knows its flaws better than us, right?
At least I do, and they really bug now and again, but since the progress pace of LFS is not a matter of life and death I am ok with it (mostly
).Have some faith!
I agree with just about everything Ian says, apart from this bit:
Some of you have to admit, he does have a point or two, maybe three! and if you don't then, maybe you should face up to the reality of it all, it's painfully slow, yes we know there's only 1 coder who's working his arse off. Fair play to Scawen and co aswell for making LFS what it is.
But it's dated, it's DX8.1 stuff, DX9 has been out for a long long time now (in computing terms: a life time). DX10 is just around the corner. DX8.1 should have been dumped for the S2 Alpha release in favour of DX9, and I can only hope that when the S3 Alpha comes around (if it does) that it will use DX10 (or maybe DX11 at that point).
OK, it doesn't feel dated at all, but it looks awful compared to other games/sims that are out right now.
Some of you have to admit, he does have a point or two, maybe three! and if you don't then, maybe you should face up to the reality of it all, it's painfully slow, yes we know there's only 1 coder who's working his arse off. Fair play to Scawen and co aswell for making LFS what it is.
But it's dated, it's DX8.1 stuff, DX9 has been out for a long long time now (in computing terms: a life time). DX10 is just around the corner. DX8.1 should have been dumped for the S2 Alpha release in favour of DX9, and I can only hope that when the S3 Alpha comes around (if it does) that it will use DX10 (or maybe DX11 at that point).
OK, it doesn't feel dated at all, but it looks awful compared to other games/sims that are out right now.
LFS is the only one I currently have installed as my HDD crashed a few months ago.. but if I was to reinstall something, it'd be GTR2. I'm not overly a fan of the cars tbh.. I prefer "amateur" stuff (hence the small list of cars I mentioned in my previous post).. but the physics feel pretty good to me (I'm no physics expert, so I just go by what feels "good / fun" although have driven a wide range of cars through my life).
GTR2 looks good, feels good and has some pretty damn good AI! The netcode apparently stinks however, but that said, LFS is the only game other than Virtual Pool 3 that I've ever played online with exception of maybe 6-10 races when rF was first released and the F3s were the only add-on cars available.
LFS needs a massive gfx overhaul.. I'm not talking "shiny bling".. I'm talking bump and spec maps (both of which can be used to good effect in DX8) especially for tracks, lack of tracks (more than lack of cars to me as I normally find a few cars I like and leave the rest, whatever the game is), lack of game play options (the ability to jump the start lights is a very welcome new addition, but so long overdue).. the clutch diffs still feel like a bag-o-shite even with preload.. I use a LSD in all my (few) setups... it's just not "complete" in almost all departments, some more than others... and why the sound engine hasn't received a _significant_ update by now is beyond me as this is usually the first complaint anyone has, so surely one that should be addressed as a priority.
Sorry, I just don't brown nose people (not saying you are, just a general statement) but have nothing against any of the LFS devs personally, quite the opposite.. but if I don't like something, I say it bluntly.. I don't like people beating around the bush with me either, got something to say to me, just say it.. so it's swings and roundabouts as they say.
There's no perfect sim, there never will be.. but c'mon.. 2 years and we're still running software with an alpha tag? Not too good IMO, especially to people who haven't followed development very closely.
I'm not saying LFS is shit.. I've had a few cracking races in the past week and raced more than I have in the rest of the past 2 years, but I feel LFS has become very stale.. can't help how I feel about it.
Regards,
Ian
When I read your initial post, I didn't intend to comment, but it was obvious that you were looking to stir the pot.
But a valid point is raised. For most people, if they get tired of playing a game, they stop playing it. Saying that you're tired of playing it is
not exactly newsworthy to the rest of the community, is it?
The fanboy response is so far off the mark, that it only proves the point
that you are, indeed, just looking for controversy. Maybe you are bored
with all the other stunning Sims that have passed LFS by too ?
Time does fly but i am not sure time flies for lfs. Does seem shocking that is is about a year and a half since i started playing lfs and over a year since i got s2. I agree with Ian on the development is slow but i woud of thought the vast majority of people buying s2 knew about the development and that it takes time. LFS does get boring at times and those times i do play less than normal but i don't ever remember one night of online racing where i have got bored of racing. I am looking into buying an xbox 360 and if i do i will probably pick up forza and pgr, why? cause i like the pick up play of them while i also like the serious side of lfs racing.
As for the graphics of lfs, they may not be upto date using dx9 (or to come dx10) but something about lfs graphics always IMO make LFS look more real than 99% of other games or sims. Call me a fanboy if you like but i play lfs for the racing that it gives, while giving a reasonable simulation experience, and as long as both of those continue i will race lfs.
As for the graphics of lfs, they may not be upto date using dx9 (or to come dx10) but something about lfs graphics always IMO make LFS look more real than 99% of other games or sims. Call me a fanboy if you like but i play lfs for the racing that it gives, while giving a reasonable simulation experience, and as long as both of those continue i will race lfs.
I am interested.. never said I wasn't.. I would like it to be how it was for me in S1 days (I loved playing it then.. I wouldn't have bothered to start a team if I was just passing through). When I said "I feel it's only temporary" I meant that if things continue as they are (snails pace) then I lost interest 2 years for this very reason, it's unlikely to change now. If LFS stepped up 3 or 4 gears and really started rolling with fixing some issues and the likes, that temporary feeling would go away pretty quickly and I'd be back enjoying it for a rather long time.
As I said, I'm, trying to get back into LFS again.
It maybe being updated, it can _only_ get better.. but the updates are non-significant IMO. Now to be really blunt, it almost seems like Scawen has become semi-bored... updates happen in dribs and drabs to various elements of LFS, but never seems to completely update one section. This I think is why I (and maybe some others) feel that progress isn't happening quick enough. I've seen the recent changelogs and there's obviously a fair few updated parts.. but not things that make LFS "feel" any different than it did 2 years ago.
I'm not a "must have eyecandy" bloke.. hell, my all time favourite game is Hard Drivin' and as I say, still enjoy the classics.. it's playability for me.. but we're looking at entire 2D graphics for things that should have a 3D appearance due to the likes of bumpmaps missing etc. Look at the car cockpits (not talking number of polys, just textures).. now tell me LFS doesn't look (and ultimately feel due to visuals) dated.
rFactor / GTR2 can look _very_ nice when the shaders are used correctly.. unfortunately, rF came with absolutely no documentation on modding, so everyone's had to learn for themselves and obviously this is more of a challenge than creating content for some.
On a plus note, I do think LFS' desaturated textures make the environment look a lot better than some in the likes of rF (I've only tried GTR2 and rF so keep my comments related to those) but considering 95% of the available tracks etc in rFactor are shitty 5 min conversions from F1C, GPL, SCGT, it's not surprising most of them look crap (I agree with you on that aspect).
Fair play.. I'm just a self-taught hobbiest but do believe that if the effort is put into other platforms, some good results can be achieved, unfortunately, this isn't the case most of the time.
Car movement is good in LFS, I won't argue there.. but when I'm racing, watching tyres deform is the least thing I'm interested in and I'm not a replay / screenshot whore so in that respect, that's a minor point IMO. All I've seen from people on other forums trying to convince people that "LFS is teh bestestestestests!!!11one" is "it has deformable tyres".. well whoopeedoo.. sorry, that doesn't impress me, especially when they're hardly noticeable when racing.
LFS _was_ (or maybe was) ahead of it's time... but it's still stuck in that time, while everyone now has moved on and improved no-end (ISI netcode for example where F1C was almost non-playable online... the few races I did do online with rF was smooth as silk, with big grids.. where I've _always_ said / posted that LFS had the best netcode in town, it now shares that with rFactor and possibly loses out.. that we can't tell yet as the grid size is limited in LFS).
The problem is, my post _shouldn't_ create a war zone.. people should learn that criticism is part of life.. what pisses me off is the people whon seem to either think Scawen is their ol' man or that LFS is somehow their product.. it's not.. so why defend it so profusely when we all know it's flaws as you say. The funny side of this is how the fanbois say that "LFS is perfect" (or at least that's the impression I get sometimes).. yet that say that everytime a new patch is released.. how do you improve on perfection? you don't.. it's just that some are blind fanbois... and naturally, I don't think everyone is.. some people will discuss the flaws, some just say "STFU and piss off" or words to that effect.. just blindly defending away again.
Agreed, it's not important really to those extents, and I can really take it or leave it.. but I've chosen to want to take it.. I do want to enjoy LFS again, but it's becoming increasingly difficult, but I'm trying.. that's a plus surely?
Then you seriously don't "know me" at all if you think that was my aim.
I did stop, now I'm back and was hoping to "pick up where I left off" as such. I'm still trying to like it.. I do like some of it, some I don't.. I'm still hoping
I'm not looking for anything, just made a post.. take / read into that what you will.
I am bored with the other games, hence I returned to LFS. If ISI had fixed the AI in rF and stopped fscking about with this that and the other and fixed the flaws that they knew about since the release, I'd still be there now as I enjoy the modding / creation side of things.. but I'm here, trying to get back into LFS again. I've tried in the past 2 years and gave up after a few races.. now I'm determined to try again a bit harder (and the cars do generally feel better to drive now).. that doesn't mean I have to say it's perfect.
Regards,
Ian
Well, I'm one of that group (or just a single person) who thought S1 was ...bad. Compared to GPL it was entertaining in short bits but all in all it wasn't anything I could take seriously. Especially when you had nascar2003 to beat! S2 hasn't really progressed the way I though it would progress and reading the latest Scawen's post about realism:
As a person who is all about realism in sims, (as long as it serves a purpose) I find that extremely discouraging. Only problem I'm interested avoiding when I play sims is the huge costs, time taken to keep the car in shape and the effort needed to even drive the said car anywhere.
Imho, it is all about that there is no competition. If I want to drive a realistic sim in which the car handles like a car, I have no other choise than LFS. There aren't really anything that does the hard part well. In one way the "badness" of the other sims make LFS so "good"
I really have to agree what Dom Duhan and Doug Jellison (Ellison?) (another nubs!) said on the latest automsimsport, "we really have never had what we thought were going to get...". When I was racing GPL only in the early years of sim racing activities (1999 or so) I really had a vision that the sim I'll be playing 10 years from that point will be 10x better than GPL. Few years still ahead before the 10 years come full but it doesn't look too good
For a 3-man project LFS doing great, absolutely awesome. But the product is still more of a arcade racer with good tire physics than a real sim :/
As a person who is all about realism in sims, (as long as it serves a purpose) I find that extremely discouraging. Only problem I'm interested avoiding when I play sims is the huge costs, time taken to keep the car in shape and the effort needed to even drive the said car anywhere.
Imho, it is all about that there is no competition. If I want to drive a realistic sim in which the car handles like a car, I have no other choise than LFS. There aren't really anything that does the hard part well. In one way the "badness" of the other sims make LFS so "good"
I really have to agree what Dom Duhan and Doug Jellison (Ellison?) (another nubs!) said on the latest automsimsport, "we really have never had what we thought were going to get...". When I was racing GPL only in the early years of sim racing activities (1999 or so) I really had a vision that the sim I'll be playing 10 years from that point will be 10x better than GPL. Few years still ahead before the 10 years come full but it doesn't look too good
For a 3-man project LFS doing great, absolutely awesome. But the product is still more of a arcade racer with good tire physics than a real sim :/
You might have some points, but boy, you couldn't be any wronger about the tires... Those deforming tires are not pure eye-candy as you might think, they are one core part of the tire physics! They are what makes LfS so far ahead in terms of physics... "Hardly noticeable", yeah right... What do you think makes LfS feel so much different/better than those ISI-sims?
For me lfs as a game has lost it's appeal for now, if patch X doesn't have anything very spectacular in it, i will probably stop actively playing it. But one thing it has over any game out there, it has the best community i have ever met, if lfs had only the moaners and the complete idiots, it wouldn't have survived this long in the 1st place. I mean you do have to have an open mind to play LFS just to overlook some of the graphical flaws such as shadows, polygon rates, texture mapping etc. The game itself is enjoyable and somewhat realistic as well, but the rate it's progressing is just overwhelmingly slow.
No idea what separates LFS' tyres from ISI's.. only that LFS tyres feel better than most ISI stuff, although GTR2 tyres feel pretty damn good too, and don't deform. Just how accurate GTR2s are, I can't say as I've not driven one of those cars in the flesh.. all I do know is that when I drove a 911 for a while, the tyres _never_ "rubber banded" like they do in LFS (comparing to the FZ5 here as it would appear to be the closest comparison and yes, I know it's not a 911) and yes, that car got driven _hard_ and LFS tyres never used to deform and still felt pretty much the same except now they feel a little more "firm" where as earlier S2 patches felt like soaked sponges wrapped around the wheels.. but it wasn't the deforming that made the difference.
Regards,
Ian
In GTR2 you can't reach the cars limit and go beyond that, i know you can catch a slide but by the time you catch it you're either facing the wrong direction or going 5 mph. In GTR2 the car feels like it's in another dimension where counter steering means the opposite, because every time i try to slide through a corner then counter steering makes the car spin faster than without counter steering at all. It's just unnatural IMO.
If Scavier feels the development process is heading the right way at the right pace, then fine with me. This is their project, they're not creating this for us, we just have the opportunity to follow the progress at a price. Because I think about LFS like that, I don't feel it is being developed slowly. It's like saying your neighbour is building the shed too slowly
Go Scavier!
Go Scavier!
has it been a year already? I'm for a demo user to say "and it was just a year ago I was cracking Patch U."
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My, How Time Flies
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