hi i was thinking quite often about the sounds in lfs...

esp. the bf1 in lfs sounds "informative" but not really chilling my neck..

so i got sum improves for the sounds and the soundscape:

+ add doppler fx or stereo spread to make it sound fuller

+ calculate not only the cylinders in engine, calc also the environment scene, means echo+reverb+reflections in engine additional in the chassis

+ add different eq's for engine sound and muffler

+ fit the volumes to the rpm, means low rpm soft-medium grumble sound and 6000rpm and above, let the engine/muffler SCREAM

+ add more detailed area sounding for track/replay cameras views, means:
car coming, u see the front -> more reverb, few details, lowpass-eq
car is there -> no reverb (without in a tunnel), lots of details, full spectrum
car leaves, u see rear -> grumble, plops (muffler way), lowpass-eq, more bassy (mufflerstuff)

+ add chassisnoizes, the cars are no bentleys for half million euro, they have to rattle, maybe that part u use sampled sounds

+ i guess your calculated sounds are mono, so maybe calculate sound A (left) and sound B with very lil differences in phase, tune/freq so it gets a very nice fullwide effect



anyway the carsounds are good, they just need sum tweaks to get authenticity!!!

Doppler effect - We already have it
Volume by RPM - It is actually louder depending on not only RPM, but the force being exerted by the engine too. We already have that.
chassis noise - Don't hear very much on regular road cars

And, ultimately, not only is LFS still in alpha phase, but sounds are not the highest on my priority list of suggestions.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

chassis noise - Don't hear very much on regular road cars

come over and drive my car. ('92 VW Polo 86c)

Good suggestions, but I'm sure the sounds will be improved a lot in the future.
I think the generated sound system is really complex and improving it will take quite a lot of time.

Well, ATM the BF1 still sounds more like a synthesizer than a real F-1 car. Of course, they'll never sound as exquisite as the old V-10s, but I'll choose the real thing over the LFS synthesizer anytime.

I think that the main problem of the sounds in LFS is that they are not rough enough.

I believe that the current LFS sound system just maps the individual noises of the bang each time the spark plug fires in a cylinder. The way engine noise differs in real life however, is that it is not a uniform and syncronised series of popping noises, but the noise is distorted through the engine casing, and exhaust system. Also in real life the sheer vibration of each individual engine component rubbing and moving also make their own individual noise other than just a "bang" noise, adding to the rich engine sound in realife. I don't think that any of these distortions and invidual component noises are currently modelled... YET, we can hope of course...

Can't... Resist.... Sorry

http://www.performancesimulations.com/files/EngineWave13.wav
http://www.performancesimulations.com/files/EngineSim1.wav

Explain

His engine synthisiser is current more advanced that LFS's (in terms of noise at least), and he's slowing off

Sounds quite nice actually, especially the rattle that develops at idle. 100% synthed?

do you mean by that quick show off... --> your 0.02$ for samples? or quck synth?

Quote from tristancliffe :

His engine synthisiser is current more advanced that LFS's (in terms of noise at least), and he's slowing off

Sounds quite nice actually, especially the rattle that develops at idle. 100% synthed?

100% synthed, yep.

Want to be a member of the dev team? LOL.

They sound ... ok ... but not where they should be.

I'd like the different muffler noise, if we get 5.1 at all you could have the backbox noise coming only from the rear speakers, and the engine from in front, although that wouldn't be the case for the open wheelers!

I agree with most of what's being said, I never feel like the engine is really working, there's no bite to the sound, and none of the "roughness" to it, especially on lift off. If I lift off at 8000rpm my exhaust splutters at me and occasionally backfires a little, this is due to the rich fueling required to stop it from pre-igniting at the current level of tuning.

This will probably be improved when the torque curves are sorted out, the current curves are completely smooth, and don't have peaks in the right places due to the fact they are calculated by a single equation, rather than the thousands of factors including fueling calibration found in real life dyno read outs. Plus the boost model hasn't recieved much attention yet.

There does need to be more samples in my opinion. The transmission is currently silent for example. On the other hand sounds are pretty low priority.

Take a hint from NFS:Porsche Unleashed. Sample real car sounds.

Since we're trying to artificially synthesize engine sounds realistically, we'll just do a Fourier Analysis on the sampled sounds and analyse the entire recorded frequency spectrum to figure out what makes real engines sound the way they do.

Quote from Jamexing :

to figure out what makes real engines sound the way they do.

We know that very well. I bet LFS is capable of nice engine sounds. But someone forgot to remove the internals of the muffler and thus the cars sound like japanese cars.

The best sounding cars have no muffler.

Vain

Actually, the road cars aren't the ones that are suffering from TOO seriously unrealistic sound. The worst culprit is the BF1. Its sounds NOTHING like the real thing (besides a few more fundamental frequencies). Yes, I'm familiar with the RL sounds of current F-1 V8s.

BTW, completely unsilenced cars are already dying out on the race tracks as litigation becomes the norm and noise regulations come into place. Besides, mufflerless race-prepped road cars are WAY too unrealistic. Well, the TBOs, LXs, FZ25 and RA are race prepped cars that are still roadable, so mufflerless setups are out of the question.

Just FYI, FFT (Fast-Fourier Transforms) are widely used in top level racecar engineering teams to engine noises and deduct their state of tune. Simply a high tech version of what some special mechanics, technicians and Engineers have done with their own ears and brains for a long time.

FFT is also, mainly, used for balancing components. It's only high up the aerospace and motorsport worlds that it's used for aural analysis (as far as I know). I should be going on an FFT course later in the year

LFS should never ever go on the sampled route if it can be helped. It just limits the amount of information the sound can supply. I can tell, in LFS, if I have a few percent wheel slip just from the increase in revs. In sampled games this accuracy just isn't there, although it does sound nicer for the first few minutes (until you hear the samples mixing like in GTR, and you realise it's just ear candy poorly acheived).

LFS's synthed sounds should be kept and improved on, and I'm sure Scawen will get round to it. As Todd demonstrates a fully synthed engine note can get reasonably close to how an engine sounds, and I'm sure both Scawen's and Todd's engine sound generator will only get better.

where would i find that engine synthezier?

I think the engine modelation is fine on LFS.

I tried LFSTweak on a old version the other day and started doing my own engines.

I built a V8 5.7, like those found on Vettes. It sounded HUGE! Meaty and stuff, but it still lacked something. Still, it was cool.

Then I went for something crazier... a V10 3.0 with redline around 18.000 RPM. (Those were the F1 engines specs until 2005) It sounded exactly like them, but it had some weird frequency responses here and there, especially when redlining. Like it was choking.

The thing is, the V8 sounded like a V8 should, but with some distortion. I don't know how to put it on words. Same about the V10.
The engine modeling is really good, but it does need some 'aesthetic' makeup, and then it will be perfect.

I'm pretty sure the devs have that on sight, though.

Quote from Jamexing :

Well, the TBOs, LXs, FZ25 and RA are race prepped cars that are still roadable, so mufflerless setups are out of the question.

Turbochargers drastically reduce mid & highend frequencies transmitted through the exhaust. SRT-4s come straight from the factory with no muffler, and obviously don't break any laws or they couldn't do it. They have a deep throaty sound and are of course louder than the average car but not obnoxiously so. Therefore the TBO and RA would not be so unrealistic with no muffler.

Im sure with bmw putting the car in the game would give them car sounds or atleast a sound team to maybe record the car at a practice session same with the mrt and the ra also im sure bmw could lend a few more cars for that but they would want something else in return maybe another bmw in the game

Quote from jtw62074 :

Can't... Resist.... Sorry

http://www.performancesimulations.com/files/EngineWave13.wav
http://www.performancesimulations.com/files/EngineSim1.wav

That first one was a Subaru STi engine, I know that but what the hell was that second one?

ok, that second one almost sounded my 1973 Yamaha TX500 street bike with a coustom header. But it is still a ways off. illepall

RaVeR:

Apostrophie, Capital, Capital, Capital, Space, Period, Capital, Capital, Capital, Capital, Capital, Capital, Period, Capital, Apostrophie, Capital, Capital, Capital, Comma, Period, Capital, Capital, Capital, Period.

Agree with Tristan on the FFT (it's what I was trying to say anyway).

As for sound regs, if I remember correctly, a car is road legal as long as maximum noise levels don't exceed 85dB (at least in Australia).

As for sampled sounds, I'm not suggesting that LFS uses them directly and drop the synthesizer. I'm saying do a thorough analysis on real engines sounds and try to figure out what's missing or inaccurate with current LFS engine sounds in order to make LFS more realistic.

As important as sound is, the developers actually NEED to focus on more pressing issues such as aero/turbo modelling, better modelling of non-tarmac(rallycross) surfaces, etc. Sound is a close second priority.

Quote from herki :

come over and drive my car. ('92 VW Polo 86c)

well, its a german car, not a japanese carillepall