Bonjours,
I I would wish that we remove the differential blocked(surrounded) on asphalt because in games(sets) that gives an enormous advantage while in the reality that would be all the opposite.
Thank you

Wait what?

He wants locked diffs gone.

I believe he's talking about setups using locked diff.

I want to delete(eliminate) the choice to be able to use a locked diff because not real. Sorry for English because I use a translator, I am French and I do not speak English.

It's a very good suggestion, and has been suggested before. However, I think a better solution is to update the physics so the locked diff would be as useless as it is in real life.

Quote from David 09 :

because in games(sets) that gives an enormous advantage

That is not true. Some ppl prefers locked, some limited. If locked diff is that big advantage, why ur not using it uh?

Locked diff is an advantage in LFS. I can't think of a car that is slower or harder to drive with it.

It should be gone from LFS.

I agree with Huru-aito here, removing the option to lock the diffs doesn't seem right - but, although my experience is limited as far as differential settings go, I think it does need to be more realistic; if it's staying.

Sam

The locked diff will essentially remove itself from popular use once the tyre physics are sufficiently well modelled. Some mechancial stress modelling could help matters also but I can't see that happening.

Quote from Smolar :

That is not true. Some ppl prefers locked, some limited. If locked diff is that big advantage, why ur not using it uh?

Locked diffs are completely useless in circuit racing, there are a very few isolated examples of people running them with limited success on older tires and poorer road surfaces.

In games(sets), the management of the differential is really invalid(useless). I would like to know if he(it) think of redoing her(it) because for me it is more important than to have new cars or new circuit. Especially that differential have a very important role on the behavior of the vehicle. Be that developer read our messages?

Quote from ajp71 :

Locked diffs are completely useless in circuit racing, there are a very few isolated examples of people running them with limited success on older tires and poorer road surfaces.

Man we are talking about a diff in game, not real life
I dunno first post point. If u think that locked diff are bit advantage, so USE IT. U are right that locked suxx on real track, but if u wanna that 2 be fixed, i guess rear hybrid tires in xfg should be fixed too.
Is something gives u advantage, why not to use it?

Quote from Smolar :

Man we are talking about a diff in game, not real life
I dunno first post point. If u think that locked diff are bit advantage, so USE IT. U are right that locked suxx on real track, but if u wanna that 2 be fixed, i guess rear hybrid tires in xfg should be fixed too.
Is something gives u advantage, why not to use it?

Perhaps because its a "sim". Abusing exploits is not the way to make you a better racer. Abusing exploits in an unfinished physics engine isn't going to get you very far.

Look at what happened to all those people that flat-shifted in the past; patch Y came out and all they did was burn their clutches out on Lap 1. Have fun doing donuts all day



edit: I don't know crap about how to setup a car.

Quote from David 09 :

In games(sets), the management of the differential is really invalid(useless). I would like to know if he(it) think of redoing her(it) because for me it is more important than to have new cars or new circuit. Especially that differential have a very important role on the behavior of the vehicle. Be that developer read our messages?

The physics simulation of LFS is developed continuously, but the pace of development is very slow. So you could assume that this kind of (clearly) unrealistic feature would be fixed at some point. Nobody knows when that is though. And the developers do read our messages from time to time, and make notes of valid suggestions - and maybe implement them when the time is right.

Quote from Bob Smith :

The locked diff will essentially remove itself from popular use once the tyre physics are sufficiently well modelled. Some mechancial stress modelling could help matters also but I can't see that happening.

locked diffs aren't good for turning at parking lot speeds...let alone around a racetrack.

I've got a locked diff in my drag car, and you don't turn that thing sharply or it will bind itself up and start skidding the inside tire. Every time you turn you're wearing out those expensive slicks :P

Going in and out of driveways leaves skid marks from the rear tires :P

I believe that locked diffs are basically abusing the fact that the fastest way around the track in lfs is basically a prolonged slide, but never getting sideways...just floating it through the corners, at least in TBO. (this is just imo and could be very wrong?)

Except the fact that the fastest way around any corner is with a certain amount of slip angle (5 or 6 degrees, no driver nub 150 degree slides). It's just harder to constantly be fast in that manner without baking tyres or wall smashing.

If you remove locked diffs, everyone will just use a clutch pack with 800Nm preload - just as stupid. The only way to fix the locked diff 'exploit' is to improve the tyre physics.

Doesn't also the fact that cars in LFS have no chassis flex allow to use locked diff as benefit too?

Isn't locked diff behaviour a result of the already known bad longitudinal tyre grip characteristics?

For me longitudinal tyre grip can be a root cause of quite a few problems in LFS.
- best starting with full throttle wheel spin
- unnormal slides at WR laps
- locked differential exploit
Too much grip at tyre wheel spin with locked diff means that even if inside wheel is sliding it has still good grip to accelerate the car.

This longitudinal grip issues has been discussed here and there couple of times by our physics "gurus". But I'm wondering why Scawen didn't put that topic at the top of the physics improvements todo list yet.

It might be a part of the problem, but it's definitely not the sole cause for the locked diff phenomenon. My bet is on the load sensitivity being not 100% correct, meaning the outer wheel works too good under the immense load the exploit setups put on it.

The tyre pressure might not be related, but can't be right either, considering how having the correct pressure is crucial in RL racing whereas you can put pretty much anything into LFS' tyres, and the only thing that changes is how fast they heat up and how much they bend (how responsive the car is). Tyre bending so much you already drive on the sidewalls? No problem.

Quote from The Radness :

Perhaps because its a "sim". Abusing exploits is not the way to make you a better racer. Abusing exploits in an unfinished physics engine isn't going to get you very far.

Say what???
If something is better, i will use it whatever pepps says. If u change sumfin and it will make u faster, why not to change it? So if locked diff making ppl faster, thay will use it till the end lol. And u have called searching for the best settings "abusing exploits"? lmao

Quote from The Radness :

Look at what happened to all those people that flat-shifted in the past; patch Y came out and all they did was burn their clutches out on Lap 1. Have fun doing donuts all day

I'm still flatshifting and there is no change since patch x. You are wrong! All that follks are still using flatshift(yeah baby).

Quote from The Radness :

edit: I don't know crap about how to setup a car.

Final thought: no comment

Quote from Smolar :

Say what???
If something is better, i will use it whatever pepps says. If u change sumfin and it will make u faster, why not to change it? So if locked diff making ppl faster, thay will use it till the end lol. And u have called searching for the best settings "abusing exploits"? lmao

oh you're one of "those" gamers. I don't expect you to understand about abusing exploits

Quote from Smolar :

I'm still flatshifting and there is no change since patch x. You are wrong! All that follks are still using flatshift(yeah baby).

You can read all about patch y here along with the changes.

Quote from The Radness :

oh you're one of "those" gamers. I don't expect you to understand about abusing exploits

One of those gamers? Locked diff isn't a cheat. It's part of the game and it's not abusing exploits! So if u have to chose: go faster with locked or go slower with limited, what u will chose?

Do you understand the meaning of 'abusing an exploit'?

If, in a simulator (like LFS), a particular setting causes an unrealistically faster result (like the locked diff does), then it is inaccurate. That setting is an exploit of the physics engine. If you choose to use that setting, you're exploiting the physics engine to produce unrealistic results in the aim of being faster.

If you wanted to do that, you could go on GT4 and get a Tommykaira to do 382mph and say it's fine. That's an extreme example, but the idea is the same.

Sam