The online racing simulator
IGTC 2008 Season Car Balancing


Hello drivers!

After careful deliberation and consideration of the results of the 24 Hours of Aston GP Masters of Endurance race and the IGTC pre-season test race, the IGTC admins have decided to use the MoE spec +15kg ballast for the FZR. The FXR and XRR will remain unpenalized.
Cool. Sounds ok by me.

Edit -> Shenanigans!
Doesn't sound ok to me, but there you go, I don't make the rules.
We had hoped for a FXR=0kg - XRR=+10kg - FZR=+25kg solution but it doesn´t matter. We´ll just use the SC periods to catch up again..
#5 - Gil07
Is this really needed?.. Why not just let it stay how it was? If FZR is faster, it's not like you can't choose to drive that car... It's already harder because of the gearbox, also it can do shorter stints...
Thats my take on it, it's not like using th FZR has an unfair advantage, because everyone can use it.

Like you say, it's already tougher to drive, and has a gearbox handicap, so quite why the need to handicap it more is needed I don't know.......
Actually I've really got to question the logic on the OP. You say the reasoning is that the 3rd fastest FZR was .8 seconds ahead of the XRR on a FZR-dominant track. Where the lap times were ~2:40.

2:40 = 160 seconds

.8 / 160 = 0.005

0.005 = 1/2 a Percent.
With Significant digits from your own numbers, that advantage is exactly Null (correct me if I'm wrong).

This on a track that Favors the FZR (coming from OP)? That's Absurd beyond belief. It's going to get Murdered on the XRR tracks.

Therefore I retract my previous statement and hereby pronounce Shenanigans!
Quote from srdsprinter :You say the reasoning is that the 3rd fastest FZR was .8 seconds ahead of the XRR on a FZR-dominant track. Where the lap times were ~2:40.

2:40 = 160 seconds

.8 / 160 = 0.005

0.005 = 1/2 a Percent.
On a track that Favors the FZR (comming from OP)? That's Absurb beyond belief. It's going to get Murdered on the XRR tracks.

Therefore I retract my previous statement and hereby pronounce Shenanigans!

I think my head exploded
Quote from R.Kolz :We had hoped for a FXR=0kg - XRR=+10kg - FZR=+25kg solution but it doesn´t matter. We´ll just use the SC periods to catch up again..

You still can change to FZR

__________________
IMO, cars are perfectlly balanced, but thing is that all best drivers (teams) take FZR and those ppl who left in XRR just can't get it going as fast as car really can. Than on 24h combo, where FZR has been dominant car in X10 (0.7 sec) faster than XRR.

With default cars, difference is 0.5 sec, but since MoE admins from to me unknown reason just like XRR more they have decided to give FZR penalty. In first it was 30kg, than down to 25kg than to 20kg and finally to 15kg.

With 15kg FZR is only 0.1 sec faster. If we remember good old X10 balance, where cars were perfectly equal, and gap on that track was 0.7 and now it's only 0.5 (default) why should we give penalty to FZR?

FZR doesn't deserve penalty for being most used car!

Infact, I will give you one great example. ALMS, real enduro champ. Penske Porsche and Audi R10. Audi is always faster than Porsche, but Porsche is just like XRR, does longer stints; has more grip, but less power.
In ALMS just like in IGTC, SC is nothing strange. So longer stints don't pay out always, but hey did they gave penalty to Audi for that: NO!
Even in MoE it's hard to use full potencial of XRR. You may ask why, it's because of Disconnects and shift+P situations.

I don't know how MoE admins, still blindly believe that 15kg is right :\
IMO, they will use BL round also to confirm they are right. And again FZR was faster there in X10...
Quote from N I K I :With 15kg FZR is only 0.1 sec faster. If we remember good old X10 balance, where cars were perfectly equal, and gap on that track was 0.8 and now it's only 0.5 (default) why should we give penalty to FZR?

If you'll examine the OP more closely, you'll find that that's not true. Bawbag was within .1sec, yes, but the next closest XRR driver was Jonesy at .5sec back. Bawbag was in fact the only XRR driver to get into the 38s. The third fastest XRR driver only managed a 39.4, whereas the top 9 FZRs had PBs all within the 38.4-38.7 range. Clearly Ray and to a lesser extent Joona are outliers here.

I understand that you rate the FZR drivers more highly on the whole than the XRR drivers, which is a matter of opinion, but even if this is so, the gap in performance between those non-Bawbag/Jonesy XRR drivers isn't that large.

Quote :Infact, I will give you one great example. ALMS, real enduro champ. Penske Porsche and Audi R10. Audi is always faster than Porsche, but Porsche is just like XRR, does longer stints; has more grip, but less power.

These cars are also in different classes, not the same class. Poor analogy.

Quote :I don't know how MoE admins, still blindly believe that 15kg is right :\
IMO, they will use BL round also to confirm they are right. And again FZR was faster there in X10...

We don't blindly believe. We look at the evidence, which you seem to have a hard time doing.
Furthermore, I'll state that the XRR's tire wear advantage doesn't really come into play in the IGTC, since the races are only 4 hours long and thus all cars will certainly require 3 pit stops. Not to mention that SC periods will probably prevent the four full stints being run in most cases.
I still don't get the need to re-balance. These are the cars we have like this... If one car is so clearly better, what's there to stop you from picking it? Balancing is just unnecessary hassle imo.
Quote from Gil07 :I still don't get the need to re-balance. These are the cars we have like this... If one car is so clearly better, what's there to stop you from picking it? Balancing is just unnecessary hassle imo.

Because we don't want a single car series.
Quote :We don't blindly believe. We look at the evidence, which you seem to have a hard time doing.

That at a track favoring the FZR, the car's advantage over 1 lap is .5% in the most favoring of circumstances (.1 vs .5 vs .8 second FZR advantage).

That is your "evidence". Which coincidentally will show Huge reversal of Far more than .5% at XRR tracks.

Shenanigans!
Quote from DeadWolfBones :If you'll examine the OP more closely, you'll find that that's not true. Bawbag was within .1sec, yes, but the next closest XRR driver was Jonesy at .5sec back. Bawbag was in fact the only XRR driver to get into the 38s. The third fastest XRR driver only managed a 39.4, whereas the top 9 FZRs had PBs all within the 38.4-38.7 range. Clearly Ray and to a lesser extent Joona are outliers here.

Joona failed. Look at quali, Ray again 0.1 too. And i've said that all good drivers are in FZR but Ray, and Joona when he is in the mood.

Quote from DeadWolfBones : These cars are also in different classes, not the same class. Poor analogy.

Im just giving example that penalty is not normal thing in real life. Go look at Le Mans series, same thing......

Quote from DeadWolfBones : We don't blindly believe. We look at the evidence, which you seem to have a hard time doing.

I've just given you evidence, but you just don't want to see it.
Quote from DeadWolfBones :Because we don't want a single car series.

FXR will still be chosen because of the reasons where it is chose for And there surely won't be much less XRRs than last year, as there was only 1
Ok, here's the deal:

These restrictions WILL be in effect for the Feb. 9 test race. All teams must attend if at all possible.

We will use the test race, on top of its already existing purpose, to test these restrictions for the IGTC field. After the test race we will consider the results and give you final word on the balancing within a week. Car model changes will be accepted after the final balancing is delivered.

"Sandbagging" during the test race will be closely scrutinized, so please don't try to mess around with the results. A balanced series is good for everyone.

Thanks.
Curious:

You know how this balance works at a FZR track. How about doing the test race at Westhill to see how it works at an XRR track?

Then you'd have both sides (as the ballast is constant for the full season)...
Quote from srdsprinter :Curious:

You know how this balance works at a FZR track. How about doing the test race at Westhill to see how it works at an XRR track?

Then you'd have both sides...

We will be taking into account the FZR advantage when assessing the test race results, don't worry.

We'd like to keep the test race at BL1 to give the new teams more time to prepare for that combo, since it starts the season.
Quote from DeadWolfBones :Ok, here's the deal:

These restrictions WILL be in effect for the Feb. 9 test race. All teams must attend if at all possible.

We will use the test race, on top of its already existing purpose, to test these restrictions for the IGTC field. After the test race we will consider the results and give you final word on the balancing within a week. Car model changes will be accepted after the final balancing is delivered.

"Sandbagging" during the test race will be closely scrutinized, so please don't try to mess around with the results. A balanced series is good for everyone.

Thanks.

I really hope this , for the first time in 2008, gets the FXR into the balancing discussion. It would only be fair.

Or isn´t there anything to add to this:

"The FXO GTR is a great car for somebody just getting used to the extra power offered by the GTR cars or for somebody who just wants to have some fun in the GTR class, but if you want wins and don't like long races you have to move to one of the rear-wheel drive GTR cars."

Found here:
http://www.lfs.net/?page=contents&car=fxo_gtr

I couldn´t agree more - a balanced series is good for everyone, like you already have stated.
Quote :"The FXO GTR is a great car for somebody just getting used to the extra power offered by the GTR cars or for somebody who just wants to have some fun in the GTR class, but if you want wins and don't like long races you have to move to one of the rear-wheel drive GTR cars."

That just about sums up the FXR imo.
Quote from Gil07 :That just about sums up the FXR imo.

Looks like this is the common oppinion as well. Np, makes it even sweeter to be able to beat you.
Heh, if it was only me you were racing against you'd have an easy task
Hey Farva.... What's that resturant you love to go to, the one with all the sh*t on the walls?


Liter of Cola.

FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG