There's something about the LFS clutch that I'm having trouble getting used to as compared to the other sims I play (mostly GTR, GTL, and Grand Prix Legends, with a little F1C thrown in for good measure).
In all the other sims I've played, when you downshift in "auto-clutch off" mode, you can just take your foot off the accelerator as you shift gears and the transmission will drop into the next gear without using the clutch pedal. Similarly, when you upshift, as long as you blip the throttle you can also forgo the clutch under normal circumstances.
Unlike ALL the other sims I've mentioned, Live For Speed reacts in a different manner...trying either of the above techniques only seems to work about 10% of the time, the other 90% I end up in neutral until I push the clutch pedal in, which means I can't use either of my usual techniques to race with because I'm having to rely on the clutch pedal for all shifts.

Are there any config settings I can change to get LFS to react in a different way to shifts, or is this just the game engine and I need to learn to live with it or turn autoclutch on?

Many thanks,

Ignatz

You can also clutchless shift in Live for Speed, you just have to match the revs perfectly. It's faster just to use the clutch, plus what's the point of having a clutch pedal if you never use it? If you don't want to use the clutch, just turn autoclutch on, you don't gain anything by having it off.

Ah, well that explains why it works on occasion...I just have to get the revs to line up better.

The reason I like autoclutch off is that it's nice to use the clutch *sometimes*....if I spin out (gulp) it helps to recover quicker, and it's very important to have clutch control for race starts. That said, I'm faster during the race if I don't use the clutch for every single shift.

if you have autocluch on, you can still use the clutch whenever you want, just push it in. All autoclutch does for you is clutch during shifts.

I think LFS is a bit too sensitive when it comes to clutchless shifting. It’s a heck of a lot easier in real life. I drove a turbo charged sports car half way across the LA basin with no clutch cable and never stalled it, up shift or down. In LFS it is a whole different matter.

Quote from Ignatz :

and it's very important to have clutch control for race starts.

Not in LFS it ain't.

Quote from Doorman :

Not in LFS it ain't.

Yeah, good point.

Nevertheless, I'm trying to train myself to use the clutch at starts anyway, so when (or is it an "if"?) they finally change the code to make false starts possible, I don't have some bad habits to un-learn.

Plus, it's something I have to do in all my other sims anyway.

Have you tried to blip throttle on downshift? I used that technique and got 95% good downshifts quickly. After a month I seldom fark it up at all. I do clutch for upshifts tho - that's what the pedals are for, after all :-)

This is one gripe I have with lfs since getting the S2 licence about a week ago so I'm just bringing this thread back up.. perhaps should start a new thread in "improvement suggestions"?

In any kind of sequential shift car, such as a formula bmw, formula renault, f3, etc etc... it is extremely easy to do clutchless upshifts/downshifts.. the only time you need the clutch in sequential cars is on starts and pitstops.

In lfs only the downshifts with blipping works, upshifts seem near impossible.

The upshift in a sequential car works with just a tiny and very quick lift of the throttle to help disengage the gear and simultaneously pulling the shift lever.

no reason in putting it in improvements again im sure that after about 4 or 5 so years now, the devs know about it, i wouldn't be surprised if it was commented on the first day LFS was released

Actually, clutch support didn't come out until .2 on March 22nd, 2003.

.. close enough lol

thats not bad for a guess though

Quote from XCNuse :

no reason in putting it in improvements again im sure that after about 4 or 5 so years now, the devs know about it

ah good to know.. i guess there is not much interest in fixing it then?

It'll probably come along with gearbox damage.

Quote from mpn89 :

ah good to know.. i guess there is not much interest in fixing it then?

Developing this sim is a long process as the devs are doing it right! Ever wonder why it's still "alpha" stage when it's been developed for 3 years now? It's because a - it's only a 3 man developing team and b - they are doing this because they want to create the best simulation of racing, not make the most money they can. Give it time. I'm sure there is VERY MUCH interest in fixing the clutch by the LFS developers team.

AFAIK, i dont think they have found a reason to fix it just yet

Quote from mrodgers :

It's because a - it's only a 3 man developing team and b - they are doing this because they want to create the best simulation of racing, not make the most money they can. Give it time.

Yeah.. am aware of the above. I tried the demo for the first time a few years ago and have seen lots of improvements since then. I was simply amazed at how similar the experience to realising how much downforce there was in the S-S cars over the first few laps was to real life.

XCNuse: I think not being able to shift with the single seaters/other sequential cars like 90%+ of real life race car drivers do is reason enough to have it high up on the fix list. The first thing I did with S2 was turn autoclutch off, and go out trying to shift up but not being able to unless I tapped a clutch button.

In LFS clutchless shifts work perfectly the way they should 100 percent of the time for me. Occasionally I miss a gear or screw up, but that is more driver error than LFS.

In LFS, it is much quicker and more efficient in just about every circumstance to use the clutch, but in real life I do clutchless shifts all the time.

Unlike LFS cars, none of my cars have first gear synchronized. The following has to occur to get into first gear in my cars:

1.) You are moving about 5-7 mph or slower, or stopped.

2.) You match the transmissions speed to the vehicle speed. This can be done two ways:

-- a.) Double clutching - You shift from 2nd or whatever gear you are in into neutral. You then let the clutch out and blip the throttle to match revs to sync the transmission speed. Then, you put the clutch back in and it goes right into 1st.

-- b.) Clutchless - Essentially accomplishes the same as double clutching, but much quicker and much smoother. You have to be much more accurate with the throttle as you want there to be no load on the transmission from the engine (positive or negative load), meaning that if you are under braking and heel and toeing, double clutching may be easier. This is basically no load on the transmission via the engine accelerative or decelerative, it should slide out of gear into neutral, you blip to match revs and after the blip if you were accurate enough it should slide right into first gear with no more force than required to execute a normal clutched shift.


Live for speed seems to simulate this quite well, even though there is no real need for it in live for speed. Still, I applaud that. It is what makes a simulator a simulator.

modenaf1: I'm aware of how to double-clutch and heel and toe.. the problem in LFS is with sequential shifting.. they behave nothing like they do in real life for upshifts.

Nobody I know in racing with a sequential dog box uses the clutch for upshifts, it would be a waste of time and is more damaging on the components than not using the clutch.

Simulating clutchless shifts in games accurately is probably a lot more difficult for H-pattern synchro as you need the forces in the gear lever to come into play to accurately shift, and shifting clutchless in an H pattern car should by all means be a lot more difficult in LFS than real life because you can't get the same feel... but with a sequential dog box you literally just smack the shifter, no delicate feel required.

Don't worry, I am aware that the sequential boxes aren't right at the moment. In fact sequential gearboxes aren't simulated in LFS at all. The race car boxes all have neutrals between the gears, just like a road car - because they are using the same code. I have bike and a car so I have plenty of experience of both types, and they will be simulated properly.

You can see by the controls updates in the new patch, for the first time a difference has been introduced between the single seaters and the road cars. I could not update the physics side of it, because this is a compatible patch, preserving hotlaps and not dividing the community. One thing we haven't thought right through yet is which of the GTR cars should have sequential boxes as well.

I expect to start working soon on some gearbox updates and also the false starts system, and try and get several incompatible updates into the incomaptible version. By the way, it's not just the sequential boxes, I'm not really happy with how the road car boxes work either. I don't like the way you can put it in gear and later on press the clutch and it shifts for you. I'll be trying out some other ways of doing it. Unfortunately I can't actually kick the shifter out of its slot like a real car. But I think I could play a crunching noise and force the user to pull it back into neutral.

good man scawen

i think the GTR's should get sequential boxes, while the UFR and XFR get standard boxes... that would bee seeeeeeeick.

Well, I know a guy that drives a porsche 996 Biturbo, wich resembles a bit to the FZR, I can tell you, it's not a sequential. Most GTR cars have sequential gear boxes, but with porsches (FZ's) they are very expensive. So actually, it's just a matter of how much money a team has. So I think it should be selectable in a GTR, sequential or H.

Quote from sgt.flippy :

Well, I know a guy that drives a porsche 996 Biturbo, wich resembles a bit to the FZR, I can tell you, it's not a sequential. Most GTR cars have sequential gear boxes, but with porsches (FZ's) they are very expensive. So actually, it's just a matter of how much money a team has. So I think it should be selectable in a GTR, sequential or H.

Leaving FZR with a NON sequential gearbox and making FXR and XRR with sequential one (faster on changing gear then manual one) can be a good way for equilibrating the GTR class, that atm is dominated by FZR.

I have a DFP... it cost me a lot of effort to get it because it's so expensive... I don't think I'll be interested much in LFS if I need to buy an H-shifter too... And the FZR is my fav car...

You wouldn't have to buy an H-shifter. It's already simulated as an H-shifter. There will still be the way to control H-shifter physics with paddles just as you do now. But the truly simulated sequential gearboxes (that don't exist yet) will shift faster and with less need for clutch.