i have posted this at rsc too, sry if its your second time reading. but i feel strongly about this..

i see sticky posts for rendered scenes ! , i see sticky posts for each car type within LFS (USER MADE SKINs), TBH when i view these renders of newly created skin by the skin masterz in here, it kinda annoys me, dont get me wrong i love lookin at them !
but...
these are not lfs skins ¬ when i look for a new skin for my car, i want to see the skin in s2 viewer, becuase half of these renders skins dont look half as good in the actuall game (LFS), what we doing guys ! makin skins, or your own art for the sake of it? yup were doin both ! but can we please appreciate 2 things !
showing a skin of in 3dsmax is not the point, please post em in 3ds renders post or whatever, lets make the actuall skin section represent what were doing, ie proper visual representation of your work for the product defined (LFS), i would also like to add to this that only the 3d rendered shots ever get the comments, or impress people ! i agree there fantastic ! but again its just not right ! your killing the whole users ability (those who cant render) your killing the skinning scene !...let our skins flourish !, or web admins please segregate the 2 formats of representation !.

imagine if the 3 devs promoted there new cars in 3dsmax, ,youd be unhappy to find them "not" that same quality in the final products ! i hope someone with a broad mind can understand where iam comin from and, dont flame just becuase u like them or make them !

agreed

agreed

rendering is art and not mass-production

[EDIT]the ultimate solution would be if the cars in LFS look as nice as the rendered ones in 3dsmax

I disagree. Rendering, including experimenting with textures is somewhat of a hobby for many. Skin making too. It is popular and people enjoy seeing their favourite car in high quality or in a realistic setting. Edited screenshots are no different in this respect. Many people get many things out of LFS, and the artistic contribution that people make is flattering to LFS in many ways. I think it's great that Live For Speed finds people participating on so many different levels. :up:

Perhaps download the skins and try them in Live For Speed in proper game lighting would be better than in the viewer?

edit: Hmm, I just had a quick scan of skin topics here, most pictures are viewer or game shots, not renders. I did see a few nice renders though. I think as long as people post their skin with the picture you have the choice to try the skin or not. I don't think we should expect members to not post rendered or edited screenshots, even if they don't depict the skin the same as the in-game environment.

He wasn't asking not to post renders, but only asking that when you post a skin in the skins section, post the skin with a CMX viewer shot. Post the renders in the renders area

I too agree with him.

from a few comments over at rsc,"same post as here" i think the best answer is to post 1 s2 cmx render and 1 3dsmax/brazil render in same post or have a post in renders threads with a weblink between picture files (if thats allowed of course), keeps everyone happy, saves hassles , and can keep things alive in respect of what were actually skinning (cmx files in the fabulous live for speed game)

Ok I see your point, upon reflection. But I still don't see any big problem on this forum. Either a 3D render or a LFS screenshot that clearly shows the skin design is all that I need to decide if I want to download that skin or not. The render in fact gives a better idea what the actual skin looks like. The CMX viewer has different lighting than in-game so there's no specific gain there over a normal in-game screenshot. Either way, if the skin is presented in a clear and clean screenshot of any descritption it is good enough to make a judgement on the work. If the author has supplied his skin for you to try, why would you be put off by a 3D render? Posting a render plus a Viewer screenshot is not required. Either one will suffice. People are just trying to showcase their skins at the highest possible quality. Where is the issue?

the issue is ;

#1 the skins in renders dont often look anything like as good in game

#2 seeing renders will may put off people from posting their skins when they cant compete with that kind of thing

personally i do like renders,but i think it be good if they were posted in the renders forum OR posted along with a in game or cmx viewer shot of the skin so you can see what it really looks like

Quote from gishuk :

the issue is ;

#1 the skins in renders dont often look anything like as good in game

#2 seeing renders will may put off people from posting their skins when they cant compete with that kind of thing

personally i do like renders,but i think it be good if they were posted in the renders forum OR posted along with a in game or cmx viewer shot of the skin so you can see what it really looks like

#1: I think then that this may be an issue for some people, but not for others. We all know that current PC technology won't yet allow LFS to look as good as a render and remain playable, so we are all on common ground there. I don't think this causes any unrealistic expectations. People tend to be atracted by renders and this can create an interest in skinning or modding in general.

#2: I guess there could be a few who feel uncompetitive because they do not have the means to make a shiny crisp render for their new skin. Although it may be said that posting your skin on the forum isn't designed to be a competitive thing. There are two reasons why people post their works: To show off their creation or to expose their skin to the community so it will be downloaded. In the first case the artist will perhaps try to present his work in the best way he possibly can. In the second case he wants to get his skin out there for others to share. Looking at these two aspects I think it is inevitable that many will focus on presentation and many will not.

Well, that's my view.

well, then you shouldn't post pics from the viewer either.

because the skins in LFS don't look like in the viewer. There is some weird kind of compression that messes up with the skins, especially with red colors.

In addition, you should use a 512² resolution, because that's how most people will see it.

The colour of reflected light effects the way a skin looks in the viewer. Changing the ground colour will effect the way the colours appear.

Quote from inCogNito :

well, then you shouldn't post pics from the viewer either.

because the skins in LFS don't look like in the viewer. There is some weird kind of compression that messes up with the skins, especially with red colors.

In addition, you should use a 512² resolution, because that's how most people will see it.

In that case, why not just skin the back end of the car, as thats all I get to see anyway on the track.

hehehe LOOL

Personally, I ouly want to see the skin in 1024² to test it myself
ingame you can see more then on any screenshot, period.

Quote from Gunn :

#1: I think then that this may be an issue for some people, but not for others. We all know that current PC technology won't yet allow LFS to look as good as a render and remain playable, so we are all on common ground there. I don't think this causes any unrealistic expectations. People tend to be atracted by renders and this can create an interest in skinning or modding in general.

#2: I guess there could be a few who feel uncompetitive because they do not have the means to make a shiny crisp render for their new skin. Although it may be said that posting your skin on the forum isn't designed to be a competitive thing. There are two reasons why people post their works: To show off their creation or to expose their skin to the community so it will be downloaded. In the first case the artist will perhaps try to present his work in the best way he possibly can. In the second case he wants to get his skin out there for others to share. Looking at these two aspects I think it is inevitable that many will focus on presentation and many will not.

Well, that's my view.

Amen :eclipsee_

Quote from al heeley :

In that case, why not just skin the back end of the car, as thats all I get to see anyway on the track.

i always drive with tv cam!

Ah so thats why you are so slow

I support Aircav. You may say that this is no competition, but you also cannot deny the fact that people do compete somehow. Whatever reasons they have to sit down and make the skin, and post it around, they would have something in common: they wonder what people say about it. People come to see and compare. CMX viewer aliased shot certainly cannot compete with the rendered skin on an eye-catching sunset background. BUT!
Gunn is right too, those amazing pictures showcase LFS, no matter how wild editing has been done with them. Those pictures feed the addiction for LFS players and starts wondering of those who did not fall into the LiveForSpeed addiction trap, yet. Alltogether, I believe they help the promotion of this great game, too.

(I do realize that the wild yellow car, looking so damn hot on a render, will look just ugly greenish ingame, especially in daylight tracks - blue sky reflected on car will tint it away, but this is not officially the skins competition, so I don't mind)

ive never seen anywhere anyone else promoting the skins, etc etc via using methods of rendering with pro 3d uttilities, they usually stick to the game render "as thats what were playing with" u dont see simbin promoting there work in 3ds max, again youd be angry to see the final product if they did, its a bit to easy to render cmx files, or is it that ....ok lfs doesnt look that good compared to alot of other race sims, were skinning cars for LFS not real life paint schemes on real cars....nowhere else do i see this blatant use of creation and artwork taken completely out of context than here.. i urge everyone as a community to post both a cmx and 3d max render < thats the compromise !

i ask how many of you have downloaded a skin from witnessing it as a 3ds maxrender, to later view your newly aquired skin in lfs,to then u change your mind about how nice the skin is really? i find myself doing it more and more- getting left with the feeling of having what is essentially an average skin....then again everything i see in 3dsmax render scene makes actual lfs look so average (crap compared to)...., what a downer that this is the way its going. only ourselves can change it.
"grrr" i dont hate renders a F$%^&^ love em ! im torn between all this tbh, but its just gone a wee bit too far with the renders, from a pov that all we gettin to see is renders that get the comments, thus alienating the cmx viewer shot- id like to thank TeazR for his work that is promoted more via cmx viewer shot ! consistency in skill is great together with a clear view of what were gettin for lfs..

Quote from Aircav :

....what a downer that this is the way its going.

Hmmm, I think it is silly to make a big deal out of something so small. Maybe when LFS Files returns it will be easier for your to choose the better skins?