I for one am sick and tired of working out reasonably equal fuel strategies and then being beaten by muppets taking advantage of the last lap stop inches from the line thereby negating the effects of the pit stop that everyone else had to do.

Please sort this exploit in the next version...:bluegrab:

I dont see the problem with this. We have even seen a F1 race won on the final lap in the pitlane.

The object is to get from start to finish as quickly as possible, taking a pitstop.

Since this is the fastest way(fuel loads and tyre wear in LONGER races not withstanding) it may be that in fact you are the muppet for not tackling the race this way.

If you cant beat them.....

this problem is only in races with forced pitting - so you can't compare it to F1 racing - but you can compare it to DTM racing. a simple method could be used here. make only pit stops between lap 2 and the lap before the race end count - this way, the forced pit-stop has to be made completely with entering and leaving the pit and losing the time for it and no last lap pitters or pit lane starters can take advantage of the missing pit-entry or pit-exit time

Rules were introduced so that there can't be a repeat of Schumi's Pitlane victory at Silverstone.

Either way, it annoys me that people decide to do this. Yes it's about getting from start to finish in the shortest time, but you have to do so fairly. Abusing the rules by missing out the pit exit to gain an advantage of several seconds (probably about 7 taking into account fuel loads, tyre temps etc on the outlap) is just dishonest and unsporting.

I think the pitlane should be closed for the first lap, (except for damage etc) and the last lap (again except for damage). Stops in that time should not count towards the mandatory pit. This will also stop people starting from the pit lane (rahter than the grid), stopping for a 'pitstop', then leaving the pitlane.

Problem solved. No one would be unhappy, and I'm sure the extra coding would be a walk in the park for Special Scawen

Quote from Tigershark :

We're talking pitstops here, not penalties. The F1 rules have been changed so that someone doesn't receive a stop&go but instead gets 25 seconds (I believe it depends on the track configuration.) added to his finish time.

there is no forced pitting rule in F1 because they have to pit to refuel there and couldn't finish a race without refueling - so talking about rules together with F1 is wrong here..

seahorse originally mentioned the forced pitting which is used in series like the DTM and there we have the rule to come in for your mandatory stop in a certain time/lap number window.
if you come in before or after that time window, you can pit (to repair damage or replace a flat tire) but you'd still have to come in again to make your forced stop
this could easily be implemented into LfS by not counting first and last lap pitstops as the one forced stop and this is well within the rules of real life racing

EDIT - my post is too long - tristan beat me by posting the same stuff faster

How about the racer just gets disqualified if he finishes his race in the pitlane?

Quote from AndroidXP :

How about the racer just gets disqualified if he finishes his race in the pitlane?

what if he wasn't planing to finish his race there and just drove in a lap before his last one to repair some major damage?

especially on shorter track, he could be lapped by the leader before he can get out in time - so he would be disqualified despite of pitting before for his mandatory stop and coming in for a second time just to repair some damage

also this wouldn't stop the super-smart pitlane starters, that join races right after the start or leave the grid into the pits to immediatly pit without refuling - this way they do not lose the speed to make it into the pits, since the others are making a standing start and there is no speed difference

so introducing a time-frame for the forced stop (between lap 2 and one or 2 laps before the race end) would be the best solution i guess

Yeah you're right. It's always those special cases :/

Quote from DasKlee :

this problem is only in races with forced pitting - so you can't compare it to F1 racing -

I was referring to Mr Schumachers stop/go (forced) in the British Gp.
It was taken last lap, in the pitlane.

The point is that the pitlane is part of the track. And one can still win the race in the pitlane, on the last lap, its just not likely to happen.

The rules modification was to add a time penalty if the incident was within a certain number of laps from the end, not to disallow winning in the pitlane.

I dont consider this cheating.

what about the people exploiting the aero bug? 149mph in the FOX uphill........................................................................................

whoever doesnt see this as exploiting weaknesses in the LFS code needs to go on a social behavoir course.

according to your reasoning if i find a bug that lets me go quicker through corners; have more power ; maybe even shortcut sectors so i can lap a track in half the time.
noone should complain..because it is possible..if u cant beat em join em?

Maybe u should go play offline where noone cares that u cheat and u can stil think u are the best/fastest in your little dreamworld

I may be stupid (NO, I'm sure I am, this os not the question here) but what if the people had to do his penalty in the few lap following the time he got it. Say you have 3 laps maximum (adjustable) to do your stop... This would allow fewer people to stop racing in the pitlane... Just an idea like that...
By the way, I would really enjoy if people not respecting the blue flag were penalized... Especially when they hit the racer lapping them (not speaking for me, I usually am the one who brake and leave the ideal line to let those damn quick drivers pass). This could also be extended to people passing when cutting chicanes or corners (like in Real racing).

Just my 2¢

(nobody told me to speak, but every one forgot to tell me to stay quiet :-) )

Quote from Seahorse :

I for one am sick and tired of working out reasonably equal fuel strategies and then being beaten by muppets taking advantage of the last lap stop inches from the line thereby negating the effects of the pit stop that everyone else had to do...:bluegrab:

he is talking about pit stops that everyone has to do - so he obviously doesn't mean penalties but forced pitting (like you can set in the server settings)
and he also doesn't talk about coming in for a blown tire or to make a splash & dash to prevent you from running out of fuel.

that's why we suggested a certain 'pit-window' that has to be used for the mandatory pit stop. this would be close to real life racing, since all leagues i know with forced pitting do not count pitstops on the last lap or the first lap as the mandatory stop

i don't think ending the race in the pit lane should be illegal - just being able to end a drive through, stop & go penalty or a mandatory pit stop on the last lap should be disallowed

If you were able to get to the pits on the last lap you'd be able to get the the finish line so there would be no point pitting on the last lap for a puncture/damage/fuel. Unless of course you had to do a mandatory stop.

Quote from joshdifabio :

If you were able to get to the pits on the last lap you'd be able to get the the finish line so there would be no point pitting on the last lap for a puncture/damage/fuel. Unless of course you had to do a mandatory stop.

or you didn't know the leader will lap you (again?) while standing in the pits - not very likely when running 9 mile circuits but on the oval or other short tracks, this does happen quite a few times since laptimes are under a minute and a large repair work costs time

An KY Oval is the specific track I am talking about, but I'm sure it affects others - AS for starters. KY Oval in an FO8 is about 36 Seconds a lap. Cars doing 180mph plus past the pits. The time penalty for piting on lap 8 in a 15 lap race exceeds those exploiting the last lap pit stop, damaged cars or not...:dunce:

A pit window as sugegsted above, would fix this exploit and still allow for splash & dash/damage etc...

Okay with the new system, lets see some scenarios...

Race 1:
Driver one pits at half distance for his mandatory stop, but crosses the line on the track.
Driver two pits at 3/4 distance for his mandatory stop, but gets damaged at start of final lap, necessitating a pitstop. He crosses the line in the pits.
Driver three plans to pit on penultimate lap, but gets stop-go penalty. LFS realises it's the penultimate lap, so converts it to a +15 sec penalty. He crosses the line on the track.
Driver 4 plans to pit on penultimate lap, but misses pitlane (forgetful :P), and ends up pitting on the final lap (nearly running out of fuel). Mandatory pitstop not made in 'window', so he is DQ'd.

Driver 1: 1 Visit to pits within window
Driver 2: 2 Visits to pit, one within window - not DQ'd
Driver 3: 1 Visit to pit, within window, plus an added time penalty
Driver 4: 1 Visit to pits, Not within window, DQ'd.

It's okay to FINISH the race in the pits, but NOT okay to Finish in the pitlane during a MANDATORY pitstop.
Having a window, even as simple as not 1st lap or last lap (you're own last lap, not the leaders last lap) would stop 'cheating' and make everyone have more fun. If the 'windows' were configurable that'd be even better.

Of course, people would end up wanting pit apples instead of pit windows, or even pit linux's occasionally. But we can't cater for ALL tastes :P

Quote from tristancliffe :

Okay with the new system, lets see some scenarios...

Race 1:
Driver one pits at half distance for his mandatory stop, but crosses the line on the track.
Driver two pits at 3/4 distance for his mandatory stop, but gets damaged at start of final lap, necessitating a pitstop. He crosses the line in the pits.
Driver three plans to pit on penultimate lap, but gets stop-go penalty. LFS realises it's the penultimate lap, so converts it to a +15 sec penalty. He crosses the line on the track.
Driver 4 plans to pit on penultimate lap, but misses pitlane (forgetful :P), and ends up pitting on the final lap (nearly running out of fuel). Mandatory pitstop not made in 'window', so he is DQ'd.

Driver 1: 1 Visit to pits within window
Driver 2: 2 Visits to pit, one within window - not DQ'd
Driver 3: 1 Visit to pit, within window, plus an added time penalty
Driver 4: 1 Visit to pits, Not within window, DQ'd.

It's okay to FINISH the race in the pits, but NOT okay to Finish in the pitlane during a MANDATORY pitstop.
Having a window, even as simple as not 1st lap or last lap (you're own last lap, not the leaders last lap) would stop 'cheating' and make everyone have more fun. If the 'windows' were configurable that'd be even better.

Of course, people would end up wanting pit apples instead of pit windows, or even pit linux's occasionally. But we can't cater for ALL tastes :P

nothing more to add - this is the way it should be implemented and make racing more interesting and fair for all racers