What is the good of motor racing

[wE1l]

Every now and then we hear about casualties in motor racing, well we feel sad, but it's not until the visual evidence stroke me that I began to question the meaning of racing. I guess it's there merely to meet the mysterious passions in human's blood, it's magical, yet at the same time, tragical.

The first time I watched it I was deeply dejected, and blamed myself for falling in love with such an evil sport.

[sinbad]

Why do people need to see video of people being killed to discuss this?
People die in motorsport, people die on the road, that's all the insight these films give us and we all know that anyway. If you watch these videos, it's just to see how gruesomely some of these people meet their end. If you need that to know the dangers of the sport or of everyday driving, you live a blissfully ignorant life (no offense).

3500 people died on UK roads in 2003, now that's horrific.

[mrbogeyman]

This ties in with the other thread in this section with F1 drivers who died. Some of the stuff in there is really gruesome and I would rather stuff like that was kept off of these forums, there are kids about and even if you put a warning on them they are still likely to click the links.

I say be more responsible about what you post, we really don't need to see that sort of thing at all.

IMO I think the admins should remove these links as well as that F1 one. I know people die and its a fact of racing, but do we really need to be shown the sick details.

[keiran]

You can die doing anything if your unlucky enough, motor racing is probably one of the safest sports around. I've seen horrific accidents while karting with people going away in the back of an ambulance with broken bones. Even seen someone break the bottom of his seat when forced wide onto a really bad rumble strip, he actually continued racing to clinch the title, needless to say he couldn't sit for a while. None of the accidents put me off karting and I'd jump in a kart anytime because my theory is why be scared and miss out things you enjoy ? No point living a cushioned life and never doing things you want to do because they are dangerous.

Same goes for anyone who races in motorsports, they do it because they enjoy it.

Keiran

[mr grady]

Im with mrbogeyman

keep this off the forums.

[wE1l]

Sorry for the strong contents guys, I've edited my post.

Because of my father's job, I saw lots of pictures of victims of car accidents when I was still a kid. So the terrible way to end one's life isn't what disturbs me. People need cars for transportation purpose, that's for life, OK car accidents happen, but that's one of those inevitable things, like keiran said you could virtually die doing anything if your unlucky enough.

But the point being, motor racing as well organised events, put both the spectator and the drivers' lives at high risk. The second video featuring a bike accident totally disgusts me, the marshal helping to pull the bike out of the track got hit (probably dead), and all thses happened so slowly under our eyes. That tragedy was absolutely avoidable had the organisers had a way to notify the racers of the dangers on track, racing events like this should be suspended.

[Becky Rose]

With a signiature of "Live fast. Die young." do you really need to ask what motor sports is about?

It's adrenaline.

Motor sport caters for a band of thrill seeker which for the most find other spots too tame, drivers at the top of motor sports are the modern day gladiators and in a way, it's become too safe and too health & safety orientated.

One of the biggest thrills of my karting carear was taking Rye Houses Stadium Bend in a Formula C. Now it's tamed with a huge run off it has become a high speed technical corner that is utterly mundane.

I race become I love adrenaline, I need more of it, and I just cannot get adrenaline hits doing more traditional sports. Motor racing gives me that all ellusive shot, and i'm a junkie.

For me as a spectator it's more about analyses, but as a driver it's about that split youre on, the car your chasing, the race result, the championship, the overhang of your rear wheel on the broken tarmac verge, the precision of braking, the racecraft of battling, the planning ahead of the backmarkers, the inch perfect line, that extra two tenths, and most of all, it's about the "now".

If racing cars scares you then sit back and admire the courageous, but for those few, it's gladitorial.

[zeeaq]

Every now and then we hear about casualties in motor racing, well we feel sad, but it's not until the visual evidence stroke me that I began to question the meaning of racing. I guess it's there merely to meet the mysterious passions in human's blood, it's magical, yet at the same time, tragical.

The first time I watched it I was deeply dejected, and blamed myself for falling in love with such an evil sport.

It surely is sad to watch but look at it this way...they were all great men who died doing what they lived for and what they were really passionate about!!! Besides, you are judging the sport based on a dark era that has passed.Those were times when F-1 was still evolving...it still is....but now things have improved and we are much more in control.

Things are changing rapidly now...and the sport is becoming more and more popular and bloody expensive too.Lots of young aspirants are now heading towards virtual racing.I often day dream about an LFS F-1 Seasons being broadcasted all over the world some day.....

[Stellios]

I love motor racing, and have since i was a kid.

OK people get killed occasionally, but that cant be helped, and cars have been made a lot safer. If motor racing is stopped the snooker will be the only sport im actually remotely interested in.

On the same note though, you can hardly call football and rugby safe sports either due to tthe amount of injuries on those.

[JJ72]

As much as I love motor racing, I hate people who ignores yellow flag and doesn't pay attention to anything other than their own track position, I've seen much wreckless drivers.....who often put others into unnesscary risk. Okay when you go racing you are taking risk, however the risk should only come from the actual racing, not on the warmup laps or in the yellow flagged section...as much as we enjoy the close fight we still have our own life away from the track and besides racing there are many great things in life as well.

With today's technology many new drivers think they are invincible...and I don't think it makes them better racers, or a braver person, they just become looser in their risk management.

[speedfreak227]

most marathons have a higher death rate than most car races. maybe not more deaths per competitor, but definately more deaths per event. marathons are still run.

speedfreak227

[Becky Rose]

With today's technology many new drivers think they are invincible...and I don't think it makes them better racers, or a braver person, they just become looser in their risk management.
There are times when this holds so much resonance. I read the threads on this forum sometimes about wreckers, about ignoring the blue flag, and stuff like that. Sometimes there is this perception that in real racing all the rules are adhered too.

I gotta tell you, they aren't...

[danowat]

If you were truely worried about dieing you'd never get out from under the duvet in the morning, heck I could slip in the shower and die just as easily as I could any other way.

IMO you can never truely appreciate life, untill you have starred death in the face.

Dan,

[Greboth]

People die in many ways - motorsport is picked on as its a world wide sport that alot of people enjoy and some people die. Not to take away anything from the death of drivers in motorsport but isnt it something stupid like 10 people die each morning before leaving the house for work. All i mean is there are many ways in dying and you might as well die or risk death doing something you really enjoy.

Death comes to us all, you've just got to be sure you enjoyed life.

Edit : Just thought of something to add - Motorsport thought people die is very safe. Look at F1 te last death was 1994, 12 years ago. I can think of a very bad crash (i could link video but i wont) where a porsche and ferrari crash and explode on impact but both drivers survive. That video shows thought accidents happen there are alot of safety in motor racing.

[JJ72]

There are times when this holds so much resonance. I read the threads on this forum sometimes about wreckers, about ignoring the blue flag, and stuff like that. Sometimes there is this perception that in real racing all the rules are adhered too.

I gotta tell you, they aren't...

Well I knew that since I was karting as a kid.

That doesn't justify much in my opinion, okay looking into death eye to eye is thrilling, but sitting down with a cup of tea with your grand children running around while you reflect on your glory days, that's even better.

With people get killed on street oftenly doesn't mean it's useless to check the traffic, since it's avoidable risk. In motoring racing I think there are avoidable risk as well, learning how to hold back and when to charge is part of racing.

[Leifde]

It's true people die in motorsport but it's also true they die parachuting, climbing, hiking, etc. People die in any sport, it's just motorsport tends to be more frowned upon for some reason. :shrug:

[george_tsiros]

this might sound preposterous, but personal health takes a back seat sometimes.

i've lost body parts due to a very very very stupid accident but even after that... i don't care.

[rabidmaddog]

This ties in with the other thread in this section with F1 drivers who died. Some of the stuff in there is really gruesome and I would rather stuff like that was kept off of these forums, there are kids about and even if you put a warning on them they are still likely to click the links.

I say be more responsible about what you post, we really don't need to see that sort of thing at all.

IMO I think the admins should remove these links as well as that F1 one. I know people die and its a fact of racing, but do we really need to be shown the sick details.

With all due respect, the Internet is a big place and not all of it is pleasant and happy. Parents should supervise their kids if they are too young for such content or lack the appropriate judgment of where to click and where not to. So many of today's kids are perpetually left alone in front of the TV or the computer and do not receive the proper parental guidance. The problem has less to do with forum content and more to do with irresponsible, inattentive parenting. I do agree with posted warnings of graphic or disturbing content but parents simply need to be more involved in such matters until the kids are old enough to make their own appropriate decisions.

[Blowtus]

As far as 'the good of motor racing' (or any dangerous sport / activity) it is a very useful adjustment to the mind. Being faced with critical situations, the adrenalin running through you, living life with a little bit of risk, is a very good thing for emotional balance, imho. Someone finishing your favourite breakfast cereal doesn't seem quite as bad when just yesterday you were squaring off against death and pain ;) I feel far better all week when I head out on my dirtbike over the weekend.

[george_tsiros]

Motor sports is mostly an exercise for self control.

[spankmeyer]

It's just life in any perspective you choose to view it. You live and achieve but the clicker is going down.

[XCNuse]

People die in motorsport, people die on the road

you forgot about the people that die by falling coconuts ;)

[ayrton senna 87]

in my opinion if u dont do anything fun then life isnt worth living anyway. i crashed into a car at 35mph on my cycle but ill still carry on to ride quickly. aslong as i dont harm anyone else with my fun then meh.. which is why its so bad when spectators die.

[Racer Y]

I dunno... Racing is a dangerous sport, but It's safety has improved quite a bit since it started. In fact, the video you described of the motorcycle race
happened at least a few years ago. And that type of thing isn't a typical
thing that happens. If you wanna feel guilty about racing, Don't feel that way cause it's dangerous. feel that way because of the fuel usage :)

[L(Oo)ney]

The second video featuring a bike accident totally disgusts me, the marshal helping to pull the bike out of the track got hit (probably dead), and all thses happened so slowly under our eyes.

If its the video i think you're talking about (Long left hand turn, rider falls off, two marshalls go to help, then another bike crash's into them.), he didnt die.

Suffered a lot of broken bones, but was back at the track as soon as he recovered enough to walk again with crutches. Which says a lot about the type of people that love motorsports IMO.

No matter how badly injured we get, the love of the sport, and the adrenaline buzz we get from it, keeps us coming back.

At the end of the day, we all die eventually, its the only thing in life we can be certain about. Theres no point wrapping yourself up in cotton wool all your life, because its not going to save you from the grim reaper.

[ajp71]

Motorsport needant be particuarly dangerous. Every risk can be reduced, including the chance of a mechanical failure (look at Lotus vs. Brabham and you'll clearly see which team built in a safety margin). Whilst going fast is one thing any of this bollocks I don't care if I get hurt is just stupid. Sure racing is dangerous, people get hurt and will return but risking yourr life you need your head checked and others is simply unacceptable.

Look at someone like Jackie Stewart, great safety campaigner, 3 time world champion and you can count the offs he had during his career on your fingers (and no one say he wasn't brave after the drive in the wet at the 'ring ;)). The difference between Stewart and pretty much anyone on todays F1 grid is that he didn't thrash the car and didn't push stupidly hard with no gain and knew when enough was enough.

Many people will say that in todays F1 cars drivers should push harder simply because an big off has no consequences. What I say in return to that is look at the stupid accidents which caused fatalities to marshalls at Imola and Melbourne in the last few years and as much as I hate to say it Senna's crash was just one silly accident to many :shrug:

[Mazz4200]

[.....all of it.......]
What a great post:)
Sounds like you had a great day. Croft is a great circuit, and it's nice up this part of the country, yeah ?
The instructor sounds like a complete numpty, but, after only 3 lessons (wow), he was probably concerned about your lack of experience with regards to car control and not necessarily the speed, but since you did'nt loose it once, and hit every apex etc, then it does sound like an odd decision. But, since he was only just older than you, then what do you expect from a 10yr old driving instructor :p :D

Let's hope they can somehow put you back in the competition, if not, then you'll just have to enter next year and win the whole darn shooting match :)

I take it you mentioned LFS in your interviews, if not then we'll have to see about getting your S2 license endorsed, or taken away, or something :razz:

Anyway, i'm really pleased you enjoyed it, and i guess i'm just a tad jealous, coz i'm far too old now for this kind of Tom-Foolery. :(

[Mazz4200]

You local too, Mazza? Where from?
Just up the road in Geordie land, Ye knaa what ah mean leik marra




[edit] rofl, Quote of the day i think, "I mentioned I'd never been this fast before and he just paused and was like "oh.. really? ok..." which is when I think a bit of pooh came out"

NFS, oh bloody hell, this just keeps gets worse :(

Well yeah, keep your fingers crossed, but just think about it, in one years time you'll have much more experience of driving "in the real world", in real cars (you are old enough to have a license arnt you ?)
And I'm sure i've raced against you before on LFS and you're stupidly quick there, so you should breeze through all the way to the finals next year :) So is it better to make it to the semi's this year, or win the whole thing next year:)

[ajp71]

@ Clownpaint the format seems similar to the Channel 5 show and if you'll be getting a race in a TGP car it will no dobut have a gentleman owner who wishes to keep it free of budding racing drivers who will trash the car and be very hard on it. Also there may be problems fast tracking the winner through to an International B license (I'm guessing that's what TGP requires) if they are younger/don't have much experience.

The other thing is were you too hard on the car? I think they'd have likely been looking at this as much as actual speed.

[Mazz4200]

You look younger than I imagined.!?
The words " Pot, calling, kettle, black" spring to mind. If thats a pic of you at 31, then i want some of what you're drinking. :tilt:

Mr Paint, It seems Ajp may have hit the nail on the head with his first paragraph, if it is indeed a TGP drive as first prize. Those old F1 cars are mighty expensive, and i would imagine the owners would set a certain criteria regarding the type of driver the're looking for, i.e one that is quick, but safe, and it probably was the moment you said you had only a few days experience that sealed your fate, but as has already been said, there's always next year, when you'll have more experience.

And seeing as you look about 7 in the pic :razz:, if the racing does'nt work out you could always join the police force :D


[edit] two more posts while i was typing this, i think i should just quit now while i'm not ahead :(

[ayrton senna 87]

maybe its for insurance reasons, or money reasons, some kind of promotional thing..

better get a move on in the racing career tho! get yourself a kart m8! simming helps alot

its probably just the fact that u are SO young

[Mazz4200]

Logic is a very German thing, it's not really applicable in this country anymore.
Unfortunately in life it's not always the best or the most deserving that get the spoils, it's just if the face fit's, and you bung the people in charge a fiver or two :)

[Mazz4200]

Justin Wilson is a really talented driver, the reason he didnt stay in F1 was purely financial. If you remember he was selling share's in himself and pasting the names of his shareholders on his car. His biggest problem is, for some reason he doesn't have the backing of a large, powerful and wealthy sponsor, and it's a real shame, coz he's gifted.

And yeah Wurz is a big chap, and i think thats the main reason he will only ever be a test driver, which again is a shame, coz he's another talented driver.

It's like everything in life these days, money talks, and if you aint got any, then no-one's gonna listen.

[jayhawk]

What is the point of motor racing? I ask you to please watch one movie: Lemans.

Death is inevitible, which draws people who want to come to as close as death as possible, to feel the thrill of it.

[ajp71]

OK having read your post I'm going to try and give some driving advice which may be rather odd seeing as messing around in a Mini is about the closest I've come to feeling a car on the limit and haven't gone faster than 50 (but I'm an inch taller ;))

He wouldn't even let me accelerate out of a hairpin, he made me roll around it until the car was straight before letting me get on the power, and I pointed out that there was no reason to do that.. I could've accelerated far far sooner.

It sounds to me like he may have been right if you watched last weeks Top Gear (06_06, http://ukf1lad.proboards14.com/index.cgi?board=videos&action=display&thread=1146067941) you'd have seen James May being coached round Oulton Park by Jackie Stewart in a TVR, not a bad way to spend your day :D. James May may be a rather useless driver and I'd somewhat dobut 20 seconds would fall off anyones times after a day of coaching here, however, Jackie Stewart made one point that was so useful, only ever touch the throttle when you can apply it fully. They then showed a graph of his throttle inputs and he uses it like an on/off switch, rather intresting seeing as he is not an agressive driver!

Maybe you were coming on the power too early, and fedding the power in too much, especially in a FWD car. After watching Top Gear I've started applying the power later and fully down and suddenly found my driving has got smoother (the reverse of what I expected) and my laptimes have dropped 2-4 seconds a lap.

The second thing he pointed out was when I mentioned that I tend to hold the wheel quite tight, he said to loosen the grip.

There was a very good Autocar suppliment on 'The Art of Car Control' a few months ago, I can scan some pages for you if you like.

One of the points it made very clear was not holding the wheel tightly and taking time making yourself comfy in the car before you go anywhere.

I find that whether I'm driving a car, kart of racing sim that I'm always fastest/smoothest and generally more in control when I hardly grip the wheel. Even in karts I find that gripping the wheel is actually far more tiring and even with such heavy steering it's best to hold it lightly as you get a lot more feel, no sore hands and faster times.

[ajp71]

If the cone was at the same place as in the video then obviously it was a stupidly late place to put the power down.

I think how you hold the wheel is actually a very important thing as it can determine not only smoothness and speed but it also seems to indicate a sense of fighting the car, which is obvioulsy what the instructor was thinking about. I'll post that Autocar article sometime.

Possibly they were concerned about your over experience at competitiion driving (I know it sounds daft) but the contest wasn't open to MSA license holders and if they know you know what a single seater can do they may work out your likely to push it to its limits.

[ajp71]

^^ As in your sim racing knowledge that no dobut led you to be driving the car too well for this type of competition, remember whoever lends their car is not going to want to get a budding racing driver to step into it more someone who won't push it hard and won't be faster than the regular driver/owner (ie. some businessman who can't drive to save his life).

EDIT - in another thread here's a link to the Jackie Stewart and James May video - http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=9006

[ayrton senna 87]

that on the throttle until u know u dont have to take it off thing, doesnt mean that u cant smootly apply the throttle as u unwind the steering. u look at the throttle 'bar' when u see F1 drivers on TV, they apply the throttle on or just before the apex and roll it on as they unwind the steering.

If you dont do that u arent using all of the traction circle. rolling on the throttle is like trail braking, but for acceleration not deceleration.

[ajp71]

^^ I always thought rolling the throttle on was faster, but after I stopped do it I suddenly became a lot faster. In very powerful cars (ie. F1) you probably will not always be able to apply full throttle so easilly.

If you've got N2003 with the GTP mod then this guy's lap in the Sauber @ the 'ring has to be seen http://achimt.flog.com/. He judges every blind corner perfectly and is fully commited. There are only 2 or 3 places on the whole 13 mile lap that he's not either fully on the throttle or fully on the brakes.