OnLine Anti - n00b Idea

[Marc Ainley]

I'm noticing many topics about our n00bs who have wrecked our races, ect. I'm probably right in thinking it's been said before, but I have an idea.

Why not have an option, when creating a server, whether or not you would like drivers to have their racing license to enter. To get the license, you must complete all the tests in 'training' mode. If the host doesnt allow non-license holders, you will have to complete them and get your license before you can enter.

Good idea or not?

[BlackMan]

Interesting...but i dont like the idea :) In lfs is pretty much training mode, plus i have to do format c: on my computer for every 2-3 months, and i wont do all train mode for next 2 month :)

[Tweaker]

There are good drivers that have always turned 'evil' and cannot race against others well at all.

So even if someone passes the license tests, they wouldn't prevent anyone from being stupid in online races.

If the tests were hard in most cases, then it quite possibly could teach the noobs. But if most servers chose to only allow licensed users who completed the training, then it would be frustrating for some people to come online. If the training was somehow connected to online stats, then I think that would be nice. This would be sort of like a hotlapping competition, but also have your training saved online so you don't have to do it over and over again when reinstalling.

[duke_toaster]

No. Bad idea. I can't be bothered to do them silly tests. In fact, they only belong in "Gran Turismo : The Real Nissan Skyline Simulator (if you like anything else, you can f**k off)"

[Marc Ainley]

And that is the attitude of most n00bs. Obviously, if the server doesn't wish for it, you're ok.

[Tweaker]

But he has a point Marc. Whenever I did the Gran Turismo series, the Training was easy and didn't prove or teach me anything.

I wanted to get straight to racing the fast race cars, but their concept is "you evolve and get better as you progress". That is really bullshit because winning in any car for any race is quite easy. Even the fastest drivers don't want to be arsed with tons of pointless Training sessions. They start the game up for the first time, and don't want to bother with things they know they could pass easily one by one. Noobs on the other hand... they do need a lesson in playing the game and driving certain cars. So it is useful for them. But if you are a fast driver, you don't need to do the training and waste your time...

[spankmeyer]

Thumbs down for that idea.

Beginners and their occasional less-than-reasonable-behaviour are part of every online game, deal with it.

[Stellios]

No, improve the AI and i might agree that you ahve to do the basic ones for basic car control. At the monute its stupid trying to do the races whilst not touching the AI at all as they are so tightly packed together and so thick you just cant win.

[TiJay]

I recently played through the LFS training and it's much better than GTs as it teaches safe racing around other drivers. It's made me a better racer. GT only teaches racing lines, a skill that evolves naturally in LFS. Having the training mode connected to online stats would be a great idea imo eg servers could demand a certain basic skill level.

[Tanuva]

No, improve the AI and i might agree that you ahve to do the basic ones for basic car control. At the monute its stupid trying to do the races whilst not touching the AI at all as they are so tightly packed together and so thick you just cant win.
I experienced just the same, tried it soo many times but I can't get around the corners without being touched by the AI because they just can't drive responsible enough to avoid touching player cars!

[spsamsp]

Seriously.. Who here has actually wasted thier time, completing all the tests when you can just go online???

[Tanuva]

e.g. the time when my internet was broken and I couldn't even view the server list. :D

Seriously, the lessons are fun - up to a point. From this point, online racing is the one and only one could do in LFS :thumb:

[bbman]

No, improve the AI and i might agree that you ahve to do the basic ones for basic car control. At the monute its stupid trying to do the races whilst not touching the AI at all as they are so tightly packed together and so thick you just cant win.
Why do I have Pro on every of that lessons then? Bear in mind, I'm far away from being a good driver... :razz:

[farcar]

The best cure for wreckers / n00bs are server admins and sensible use of the kick/ban system.

[Becky Rose]

I've already thought a lot about this recently:

Newb is a concept I think is ill-conceived to describe the problem, it implies new or illiterate drivers are the 'problem'. It isn't. Time and time again when practicing for my last league race two of the top drivers got through T1 safely but caused 4 or more cars behind them to crash at almost every start.

What we all want, including the idiots who dont realise they are idiots, is racing where we can get good racing. Most of us are not experienced race drivers though, and not all of us know instinctively what to do in many situations we'll find ourselves in during a race. So how can problematical drivers be pulled up on the behavior?

I hope that by having the means to act upon poor driving when it occurs, and having the balls to step on peoples ego's and tell them they've ballsed up. The only way to do this is much the same as in real racing, with a clerk of the course and a documented complaints and appeals procedure.

Few people would volunteer to be a clerk of the course for most LFS races though, which is why there's so many examples of poor driving in LFS (often by the most non-newb drivers of all, and I ocassionally have to include myself too), but I think most leagues should run a dedicated clerk - and in large leagues use a license system too.

That's why i'm working on the project I am on (see current sig), but more on that after i've moved house and my broadband is installed in about a months time.

[JohnPenn]

What makes a "good" driver there is a question.

New drivers, (dont say Noobs arghhh:) )

I have seen many new drivers this week who are really slow ,learning the track , etc.. but I would share track space with them anytime, you trust them going into a corner that they will not make an impulsive move that wrecks both of you.

They give you respect on track,and respect is always paid back:).

Good Idea Marc, but driving ability does not alway's mean clean racing , human nature and hormones usually bugger it up:D

John

[Hankstar]

I'm with Becky, "newb" doesn't necessarily mean "bad'. I've seen people with plenty of experience ruin races more than once. To me "newb" means "work in progress", i.e. someone who is going to get better (the majority do, including me, but it sure doesn't mean "fast" - but that's beside the point :)), but in the meantime may very well make some errors, like all of us do from time to time. Even aliens make mistakes but they generally don't repeat them. It's the people who keep making the same mistakes that you have to watch. I believe one definition of insanity is "displaying repetitive behaviour but expecting different results", i.e. braking, after every restart, at the 50m marker at Blackwood in a GTR and wondering why everyone's screaming to kick you :)

I didn't finish the tests, mostly because they're not all that useful to me as I had plenty of GPL/LFS race sim experience before S2 came out - also because the AI aren't all that great at being practise partners. To me, the tests are a bit like the tests in GT4: Skyline Showcase (i.e. not all that instructive), but thank god they're not compulsory :up:

Having a clerk or marshall system for leagues is a good idea :up: but as far as public servers go, I guess we just have to take pot luck...I don't know if there's much you can do about idiots who choose not to drive carefully except kick 'em...

[AdamW]

john: I don't understand why you'd learn a track in an online race, though. I'm a noob and I certainly wouldn't. What's the point? You're not going to win and you're not going to do any good racing until you know the track (you can hardly make a clean pass if you haven't got a clue about the correct speed for the corner...), so the _only_ thing you could possibly do to affect the race is to stuff up someone else's, and that's not a good idea. To me it only makes sense to learn the track / car combo in hotlapping before racing it online.

[th84]

My eyes are burning again, did someone say noob??


To me it only makes sense to learn the track / car combo in hotlapping before racing it online

I have to respectfully disagree with that. I like to find a lightly populated server and join in, watch a few laps in cockpit view with the fastest/best controlled car on the track, learn braking points and corner speeds, and take to the track! I always do it the opposite way, learn the track, get fast (fast to me may not be fast to you), then go hotlap. Granted, this has got me into trouble a couple of times, but i dont think i could learn correctly without having consequences to my mistakes! To each his/her own i guess.:)

While i agree that server admins pay good money for their servers and should be able to do as they please with it, I would never exlude anybody based on skill or lack of. I think it would turn some people off if they knew they had to take pop quiz's before they join a server!


@Becky, lovely idea you got going there, but did you get a patch that i didnt?? Aston Black reversed???:razz:

[farcar]

New drivers, (dont say Noobs arghhh:) )
To clarify, some people perceive a difference between a newbie and a n00b:

newbie: A newcomer who is lacking in skill but does the right thing online and keeps out of peoples way.
n00b: A newcomer who is lacking in skill and behaves recklessly online not caring about taking out other racers because they don't know where braking points etc are.

[wheel4hummer]

Everyones a newbie at one point. :nod:

[richy]

To clarify, some people perceive a difference between a newbie and a n00b:

newbie: A newcomer who is lacking in skill but does the right thing online and keeps out of peoples way.
n00b: A player who is lacking in skill and behaves recklessly online not caring about taking out other racers because they don't know where braking points etc are. Often used as an insult

hi i have made a slight edit with an explanation.

its not just a newcomer who is a n00b, it can be anybody, as the term noob is actually a form of insult rather than a statement of fact. like calling a driver you know a rookie, even though he and you both know he isnt, its taken as an insult. ah well i guess im just rambling now i guess u see what i mean even though its kinda unimportant. :D

[farcar]

hi i have made a slight edit with an explanation.

its not just a newcomer who is a n00b, it can be anybody, as the term noob is actually a form of insult rather than a statement of fact. like calling a driver you know a rookie, even though he and you both know he isnt, its taken as an insult. ah well i guess im just rambling now i guess u see what i mean even though its kinda unimportant. :D

Fair enough, although if you continue to behave like a n00b, eventually you become a wrecker. :scratchch

[mrodgers]

hi i have made a slight edit with an explanation.

its not just a newcomer who is a n00b, it can be anybody, as the term noob is actually a form of insult rather than a statement of fact. like calling a driver you know a rookie, even though he and you both know he isnt, its taken as an insult. ah well i guess im just rambling now i guess u see what i mean even though its kinda unimportant. :D
I would also clarify the definition of newbie. A newbie is not someone with lack of skills, but someone with lack of practice and/or experience.

And I agree with your definition of n00b. There are some n00bs who have been here quite a long time and actually know how to lap. They just don't know how to race as in with other's on the track.

And, there is an entire team of n00bs. Though, there's only one who acts like a n00b. His name is tdh... ah, td45... no, er, thd... hmm, th72?... AH! th84!!! Yea, that's him!!!

Hehehe. Just kidding there th84, though you know that. This is just for those who don't know :razz: . Now, the picture of him on the other hand....:pillepall :D

[RedStarArmy]

The best cure for wreckers / n00bs are server admins and sensible use of the kick/ban system.

Amen brother..i agree. That or join some leagues or private events...other than that..use a lot of brakes and stay wide on T1..usually works for me :nod:

[Rotary]

No. Bad idea. I can't be bothered to do them silly tests. In fact, they only belong in "Gran Turismo : The Real Nissan Skyline Simulator (if you like anything else, you can f**k off)"

:rofl: I like that name for the GT games, very accurate :thumb:

[AdamW]

well, I found LFS via the GTPlanet GT forums after I started playing GT4 a few months ago, and guess what? I don't own any Skylines at all! Oh wait, I have one I won for golding some license tests. But that's all. :P Mostly I drive a ridiculously souped-up RX-8, in that game. Good fun. The whole Skyline thing is a bit unfair - sure, it's got like 80 Skylines or something ridiculous like that, but it *also* has 600 other cars, so it's not like you're screwed even if you hate Skylines.

anyways, john, I can certainly see your point, I agree - to each his own :). But my way works for me - for instance, up to this afternoon I'd only played Blackwood GP track, so I thought I'd expand my knowledge, so I went out to the next track in the list (South City Classic) with the GTi, and lapped until I could get within the LFSWorld 'benchmark' time (103% of the world record, 59.10 or so). Then I went online and noticed a server running those exact settings (SO Classic, GTi only) and was able to do some nice running with two other people who could drive down to those times. If I'd just jumped online straight away I'd never have been able to keep up with them. So, yeah, worked out for me today :)

[Becky Rose]

Aston Black reversed???:razz:
It's a bug in your browser, the correct text doesn't say this at all !

I will endeavor to resolve the inability of your computer to read my web site as soon as possible, probably next weekend as i'm tied up writing the league & license control software atm. Thank you for pointing out this incompatability. :)

[Goop]

I think maybe if the idea could incorporate something other than the license tests, then it might be do-able. I dunno what tho.

As for learning tracks offline so as not to stuff up others racing, in the most respectful way, get the f*ck out :) If you are a conscientious racer, here's a few commonsense guidelines:

1/ Pit in at race start.
2/ When you do get out, watch your map, and give heaps of room to anyone coming up behind you.
3/ Never go into T1 alongside another car if you don't know the track, or if you haven't driven the setup. Nothing worse than getting to T1 to discover your car isn't as strong or as stable under brakes as expected... or the track goes the other way :doh: :D

Simple I reckon.

[IDUI]

I've seen new drivers act better then most experiensed ones and some really good drivers wreck on purpose. It is the effort that counts if a racer choses to race clean he will be clean no matter the skill. This you cannot teach. It can be forced, but that is just too much work.

I personlay don't agree with the purposed idea of having to do a driving test in order to join online. As said earlier, experiensed/good drivers would die of borredome.

Instead, why not have some servers(in addition to what we have today) that recquire one to register online, at liveforspeed.net. This way only those who chose to expend the effort of going through the registration can do, and one is recquired to answer an email confirmation to complete the registration,right?(Don't recallexactly, if not then there is a weakness in my idea):scratchch

This way, banning is done to the registered name, lappers have one name in them for each user, and getting a new username is much more pain then to just change your nick and/or change ip.

Sure there will still be new players who join those servers, but not as many and surelly more managable by admins.

In order not to interupt this 'profound "n00b" indentification how to' go ahead and answer in this (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=836&page=2) thread instead, or here, I don't care. Just don't want to hijack this thread.
I bring this up in this thread in hopes for more people to see the idea. So that the idea can be buchered. :schwitz: I don't see anything bad with it, perhaps it's not possible to implement. Developers probably know. :shrug:


Edit: Yes, fo cource I missunderstand the thread... you're not talking about demo servers. Oopsie. Sorry for me ignorance. =) Well... apply my idea to demo. As for licensed servers: how can you measure the effort a racer will put to keeping clean? Joining clans/teams? I always thought that just having a permament licensed name is enough. But I hang around in the demo serves too much to know for sure.

[ferox.CHIEF TAOA]

Does anyone remember the Nascar: Season 2003 (Papyrus) system to protect servers from "newcomer"?
Maybe it´s possible to include the "Laps per Incidents-System (LPI)" to LFS? If, then it should be possible to set server to a minimum of that LPI and all without enough LPI can´t connect (or they got a password for the server).

[farcar]

Some more designated 'beginers' servers would be a good idea. Maybe they would all go on to the one server and wreck each other. :shrug:

Other than that, I think that most software 'solutions' like LPI counters and such would end up just being controversial.
I'd still rather humans be in charge of the servers, rather than software.

[ferox.CHIEF TAOA]

I think that LPI "protected" server are a better idea than special beginer server. Every public server is a server for beginners. That´s what the word "public" stands for (imho).
But when a driver need some skills to join a special server, it could be a better motivation to train and drive clean races for some racers.
Not every good driver want to drive in a league, this driver could join server with other good drivers if the LPI is high enough.

The most good drivers are in at least one league. When they train for one of that league, they do this normally on a password protected server or offline. If this train server is a "skill server", then there could join more good drivers who are not interested in that league but on that train or race combo. Maybe some hotlap gods find the way often to such server and that´s better for the online activity. For good teamless/leagueless drivers this could be more fun.

We don´t need server for beginers, cause we had enough. What we could need are some "public" server for the good ones.

But it´s a complicated system and I don´t know if this is possible for LFS.

[Linsen]

Thumbs down for that idea.

Beginners and their occasional less-than-reasonable-behaviour are part of every online game, deal with it.
Was going to write a lengthy response but the above sums it up perfectly.

Plus: has anyone ever noticed that these threads pop up ever so often since the beginning of LFS (well, not quite but ever since I am around) and none of the "solutions" ever became reality?

[TagForce]

Does anyone remember the Nascar: Season 2003 (Papyrus) system to protect servers from "newcomer"?
Maybe it´s possible to include the "Laps per Incidents-System (LPI)" to LFS? If, then it should be possible to set server to a minimum of that LPI and all without enough LPI can´t connect (or they got a password for the server).

Not just the LPI system... But tracktype rankings as well... Short tracks, medium tracks, long tracks, oval, dirttracks...
The LPI system is too dependant on the drivers you race with. So, I'd just get my team to run a few 10km/h races for a few nights and get a 250+LPI on the long tracks...

[ferox.CHIEF TAOA]

It could changed from a lap to a distance, "Miles per Incidents (MPI)". This could be an easier way to handle such a system!?

[JohnPenn]

n00b: A newcomer who is lacking in skill and behaves recklessly online not caring about taking out other racers because they don't know where braking points etc are.

Ahh yes ok, I use a different word to describe this type of driver:D.

Regarding learning track's online thats the way I did it, joined a server watched a few races, then entered the track well away from others, all the time keeping an eye on the map for other racer's, as I got to know the track I would start from the back of the pack , leaving lots of room between me and the other drivers, funny thing is how quick you catch up at t1:nod: .

John

[DasBoeseC]

LPI?

Great system.....always loved to lead the pack into lap 2 suddenly facing a car heading towards me.....
:really:

Seriously.....I rarely ran into drivers who were new to LFS that really made me want to kick/ban/avoid them.....

Newbie ≠ Wrecker

CU, Sebastian

[farcar]

Every public server is a server for beginners. That´s what the word "public" stands for (imho).

I don't really agree with that. :)
There are usually fast racers even on public servers. Public does not mean beginers only, that's the whole problem. There are compentant, clean racers mixing with new, reckless ones and it's causing grief to some people.

(Personally the whole issue doesn't bother me that much)

[ferox.CHIEF TAOA]

hups, sry. Add the word "also" to the first sentence. I don´t wanted to say that public means "for beginers only".

DBC: Driving in the wrong direction is a lil more difficult in LFS (when the server is correctly configurated) :)

[Eldanor]

Good idea or not?

Well, I see your effort, butI think my grandma could finish the LFS driving school before dinner time. :shrug:

We'll have to deal with the NFSU boys like always :)

[AdamW]

goop et al.: wow, I didn't realise there were so many people of the opposite opinion! Now I feel all minority-ish. Hehe. I guess there's not many people like me who just enjoy driving a circuit over and over, solo, to learn all the kinks. For me driving at the back of a race I have no chance of ever really being involved in is really no different to driving the track on my own offline, but I guess it's different for others. Out of interest, what do you like about learning a track online over doing it offline? Watching others drive? The chat?

I guess the thing that scares me is it's possible to mess up even if you're trying very hard not to. For instance, in that session yesterday, we were doing a long qualifying stint before the race, and I messed up a lap about 20 seconds in front of the other guy on the server at the time. I pulled off to the side of the track (so I thought) to let him get past without messing up his hot lap, only to find out that he drives the other side of that particular corner from me, so he smacked straight into my stationary rear end! Luckily he wasn't on a great lap so no harm done, but still, that could never happen offline :) I guess it's not a problem on a course where you can actually pull right off the track, but there's only a couple of places you can do that on South City...

[tinvek]

one thing really anoys me with the complaints about noobs etc

why is it that some experienced drivers behave like spoilt brats and bullies ?

2 examples both on south city classic in fox so crashes are inevitable usually involving the drivers that start mid grid so are not all noobs

1
lap 3 first bend , im following a car driven by a driver thats approx 3 sec per lap slower than me and i have a faster driver catching, hes approx 1 sec behind at start finifh line. car in front brakes a lot earlier than i expect for 1st bend, i jam anchors on at about 85 meters and manage to slow to his almost stopped speed, experienced faster driver then manages to pile into me and go flying past into wall. he then complains that i was going slowly on his line says hes fed up with noobs and disconnects. now this guy wasnt even close to slowing enough to avoid me as he carried on right across bend into fence after hitting me, there was a lot of space to my left and he was a second behind, i was closer to the car in front and managed to slow, he could have slowed or gone round but instead.
depended on god given right to carry on at normal speed

2
after each race, some experienced drivers insist on either parking or doing doughnuts on racing line on 1st bend or chicane exit, or lapping in reverse to stop people lapping whilst screaming restart. its theese same drivers who are moaning after the restart when a driver misjudges a bend and hits them because they havent had a chance to try a change theyve done in their setup. i know it can be frustrating to wait ages for a restart but a couple of laps for everyone else isnt going to take long.

[]_[SS WIZZARD]

i only started playing lfs myself and ffs what do i see ppl moaning about noobs just a little reminder peeps you where all noobs once we al gotta learn

[farcar]

_[SS WIZZARD']i only started playing lfs myself and ffs what do i see ppl moaning about noobs just a little reminder peeps you where all noobs once we al gotta learn

As stated a few times above the gripes are not about new drivers, but reckless ones.

[IReallyHateBureaucracy]

.

[Becky Rose]

I have an Earth shattering confession to make,

"Sometimes I make mistakes. Sometimes an accident is my fault. Sometimes I do a move which has a foundation a million miles or more from logic. Sometimes I just screw up for no reason at all. I misjudge a gap, miss the braking marker because i'm looking at something else, I sometimes anticipate another drivers move completely incorrectly, sometimes I get home and log onto LFS and I drive badly, ocassionally I forget to plug the ethernet cable in and lag out on wireless for a race or two until I realise, and sometimes I get stroppy (even if silently) with another driver for completely unjustified reasons. Sometimes I fail to appologise, because my interpretation of events is incorrect until I see the replay, and sometimes I do some of the most irrational overtakes."

The most frustrating thing about being as useless as I am, is other drivers expect and demand for me not to be quite so bad. On those ocassions when I do mess up more often than not the highly strung flame of doom comes pouring down upon me quicker than I can say, "yes but... Last week you did... ...I didn't say anything because i'm not a total agro head like you."

Racing cars releases adrenaline into the body, some drivers get a bigger shot of adrenaline than others (low fun+fear threshold) and loose all sense of rationale. They then fail to control their tongue and temper.

Now that for me is a far bigger problem than my inability to drive in a strait line.

[Rappa Z]

thumbs down. I think we should get more nob servers instead. First time i raced in S2 was on the oval in a FO8 on online and i wasn't problem, cause i couldn't get the limiter to turn off:D. Just make more severs.

[IIIFireIII]

I am not the best racer in the world and not the worst. But i hate it, when some so called "pro`s" hit me in a race for nothing, because I am a bit slower. This are the same people that complain about newcomers.

I hate crash kids that try to ruin a race and I want to say, that not all newcomers are crashers. I always want do drive fair races! But the much faster drivers have to accept that there are slower drivers, too.

[Valkyrie]

I am not the best racer in the world and not the worst. But i hate it, when some so called "pro`s" hit me in a race for nothing, because I am a bit slower. This are the same people that complain about newcomers.

I hate crash kids that try to ruin a race and I want to say, that not all newcomers are crashers. I always want do drive fair races! But the much faster drivers have to accept that there are slower drivers, too.

Have to agree with ya on this one most of the time is the so called pros that cause pileups cause some not all are impatient and ram the slower drivers in the backside all because there slower than they are :pillepall

I'm no where near some of the guys i race against but on our server anyone caught wreaking or ramming someone in the butt will be kicked and
now we have some fun races which are fair and a joy to be in.


Becky cool idea carn't wait to see it in action :)

[Chris_Kerry]

Just make more servers.

Are you joking? Look how many servers are unused on LFS world right now. It's staggering. What a waste of money.

[Becky Rose]

some not all are impatient and ram the slower drivers in the backside all because there slower than they are
I've tripped over backmarkers before too, sometimes it is my fault, and sometimes it isn't, but I never loose sleep over it unless there's a consistent problem.

On the one hand I do agree with you because most LFS racers have very poor racecraft, most, and yes I do meen MOST racers in LFS havn't a clue when it comes to this difficult craft. More often than not a fast LFS driver will try to pass at the first opportunity to do so, without necessary planning on where they are going to overtake. This is simply because of a lack of real championship level race experience.

Having accepted that, it can actually be very difficult not to hit a slower driver on ocassion. Sometimes a back marker is so much slower that their lack of speed through a corner is a genuine suprise.

I remember one driver on that old classic SOC+FOX combination who was taking the chicane in high 1st to low 2nd gear. The pandemonium that driver caused - quite legally - was beyond belief, because once you are committed to that chicane there's no going back and I for one was gaining about 6 seconds on him through that corner alone.

That's an extreme example, but speed differential can be quite dangerous and there isn't really anything that can be done about it and it isn't necessarily a case of pointing fingers. Racing is dangerous, there is a wide range of driver skill (even in F1), and sometimes accidents just happen.

[farcar]

crash kids
This is the new official replacement for the word 'n00b'. To stop any confusion between newbies and reckless newbies. :thumb:

[mrodgers]

Having accepted that, it can actually be very difficult not to hit a slower driver on ocassion. Sometimes a back marker is so much slower that their lack of speed through a corner is a genuine suprise.

This is one of my problems. I'm not part of the "fastest" group. I think I'm fast in the "average to above average" group. So, when I catch a new guy who is way slow, I find they can be quite unpredictable in how they are going to brake, take turns, exit, etc. I have the hardest time getting around them, because I'm not ultra fast, and the last thing I want to do is to hit someone whether they are fast, slow, new, or experienced. I end up pulling up beside them, watching how they are driving as I attempt to pass, then back off more to prevent them from hitting me than from me hitting them. Thus, I end up with big trouble trying to get by them.

Last night at Westhill, I encountered a slow car. No matter what I did, he would turn into me or cut me off even though I was 6 seconds faster than him. His car seemed to be invincible as he would wack me off the track. I eventually tried to slam him from behind to move him, but I just couldn't get him to move. Oh, wait a minute! His dot on the map was blue! He was an AI car! LOL [/joking around]

[tinvek]

personally i've no compaint about people hitting me, if its my fault i say sorry, if it their fault they say sorry. its when they hit me or another car and it is their fault yet they go on a noob hunt against the poor soul they clobbered

[Xaid0n]

This is one of my problems. I'm not part of the "fastest" group. I think I'm fast in the "average to above average" group. So, when I catch a new guy who is way slow, I find they can be quite unpredictable in how they are going to brake, take turns, exit, etc. I have the hardest time getting around them, because I'm not ultra fast, and the last thing I want to do is to hit someone whether they are fast, slow, new, or experienced.

I'm only a demo racer at the moment and i'm still learning the race lines and braking points, i suppose i have an ok teacher, but i have the same problem with coming up to slower cars, i move behind them usually to get the slipstream, then pull out enough so there is like 2 cars between us and i have been deliberately spun out on a flying lap, i sure hope people aren't like that on S2. Also if i see a car(s) who are faster than me then at the next corner I'd slow down enough and pull off the racing line to let them pass, no point in ruining someone else's race in my point of view.

[mrodgers]

...i have been deliberately spun out on a flying lap, i sure hope people aren't like that on S2.
No, usually you don't see this in licensed servers. It's only the new guys who don't have the experience and track knowledge to be able to avoid you. It's not that they are deliberately spinning you out, just that they don't yet have the experience. For the most part, the new guys eventually gains the experience and before long, you can be racing side by side in the corners without contact.

Also if i see a car(s) who are faster than me then at the next corner I'd slow down enough and pull off the racing line to let them pass, no point in ruining someone else's race in my point of view.
In my opinion, I'd rather you just hold the racing line and slow down after you see me make a move to pass. It is more predictable that way. There are disagreements in the community on this though, and it is also dependent on where you are and how slow you actually are to others.

[AK-Chester]

...see current sig... Nice, I'll keep an eye on it. :)

[duke_toaster]

I've tripped over backmarkers before too, sometimes it is my fault, and sometimes it isn't, but I never loose sleep over it unless there's a consistent problem.

On the one hand I do agree with you because most LFS racers have very poor racecraft, most, and yes I do meen MOST racers in LFS havn't a clue when it comes to this difficult craft. More often than not a fast LFS driver will try to pass at the first opportunity to do so, without necessary planning on where they are going to overtake. This is simply because of a lack of real championship level race experience.

Having accepted that, it can actually be very difficult not to hit a slower driver on ocassion. Sometimes a back marker is so much slower that their lack of speed through a corner is a genuine suprise.

I remember one driver on that old classic SOC+FOX combination who was taking the chicane in high 1st to low 2nd gear. The pandemonium that driver caused - quite legally - was beyond belief, because once you are committed to that chicane there's no going back and I for one was gaining about 6 seconds on him through that corner alone.

That's an extreme example, but speed differential can be quite dangerous and there isn't really anything that can be done about it and it isn't necessarily a case of pointing fingers. Racing is dangerous, there is a wide range of driver skill (even in F1), and sometimes accidents just happen.

SOC + Open wheelers + drivers with poor racecraft = a load of expensive cars in walls.

Everyone is a new to LFS at one points, just learn one track at a time... Blackwood or Westhill first.

What would be helpful is L plates on drivers that haven't competed 400km.