Wreckers, once again....

[tpa]

Yup!

h0lz & s0n!c ruined our 10 lap race at Aston GP / GTR. :thumb: Way to go guys. You rock!

I can't believe there are actually peple out there that buy this game just to ruin the races of others :thumbsdow freakin' losers!
I attached the replay, h0lz (Getriebefehler) joins the sever at about 6 mins 25 secons and parks right in t1 and is joined by s0n!c shortly after. I attached the replay.
Kicking/banning was not allowed on that server for some reason.

I purposely stayed out of that PC Zone bashing thread because the guy who wrote that article totally has a point and it doesn't just happen on demo servers.

The option for automatically kicking cars going in the wrong direction was a good step but cars that are just parking on the road should also be kicked (to spectate or from the server) after a few seconds (as an option).


Grrrrr.... and to quote bash.org:
"i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"

[Theafro]

i think it's about time that time - ban's are used on peeps who can't keep their discipline, i know that they've paid there money and are entiled to play what they paid for, But they do NOT deserve to play the game when they simply ruin peoples online experience.

maybee a kick to spectate after parking for more than a few seconds (or somthing less cheatable) would avoid the 'parkers' but what's it gonna take to keep the t-boners at bay is anybodys guess if it's a ban free server.

I think it would be fair and right to give out 1 week online bans to anybody who shows a blatant disrespect for other users

[SniperX]

The good thing with a licened wrecker is that its possible to ban them from the replay ;) :smileypul

[L(Oo)ney]

Hope they are both reading this, because they are both Twat's.

*added to server ban list* ..

Thought this kinda stunt was only in demo servers, guess the virus has spread to s2 aswell. :sigh:

[edit] You notice the way sonic tries to cover up his little antics, by crashing into a wall so it looks like hes actually crashed.... knowing full well he will be catapulted back onto the track.. :really:

[Theafro]

i dunno if anybo's been banned before now, and it's not as if they would just give 'em a life ban, well not straight away! but like i said before a week or something would be perfect for teching them to PLAY FAIR OR NOT AT ALL!

[dodo.ger]

hi guys,

this was on one of the dsrc servers, please post next time on our forum:
http://dsrc.digiserv.net/forum

i did just ban both for some time after watching the replay. sorry for the mess, we cant be online everytime.
keep racing! :D

greetings,
dodo

[dUmAsS]

OMG, ive not seen anything like that before in s2!

[inCogNito]

join mid race = off might help for something like that.

and a lifetime ban for those 2 on all servers of course... :really:

[L(Oo)ney]

Never had to ban anyone before in my server, and only had to kick once or twice, and they soon got the message.

Not even gonna bother giving these two a chance. I've seen all i need to see thank you.

[dodo.ger]

no midrace join helps a bit, sure, but you cant have it on all the time. there are good racers out there who can drive clean when joining midrace.
also im no friend of the kick/ban buttons as most times somebody of our team watches the servers.
there arent that many bad guys out there, so why punish the good ones? ;)
at least you wont see them on there soon again. :)

[tpa]

You notice the way sonic tries to cover up his little antics, by crashing into a wall so it looks like hes actually crashed.... knowing full well he will be catapulted back onto the track.. :really:

yea, he also hides behind h0lz and then quickly moves in the way of approaching cars.
So hard for me to understand that people invest that much time and 'thinking' just to piss off people they don't even know.

I actually was hesitating to post this here because I knew naming wreckers wasn't welcome at rsc. But your responses show me that I made the right choice! Thanks :thumb:

[dodo.ger]

no problem! :)

we try to have servers as clean as possible. everybody can make faults, but nothing like that is tolerated. ;)

thanks for the info! :thumbsup:

[L(Oo)ney]

I actually was hesitating to post this here because I knew naming wreckers wasn't welcome at rsc.

Which doesnt help matters if you ask me.. :shrug:

Thats about to change me thinks. I would even suggest creating a special "name and shame" subforum for these very "special" people...

But thats just me thinking out loud.. :thumb:

[Shotglass]

maybee a kick to spectate after parking for more than a few seconds (or somthing less cheatable) would avoid the 'parkers'

weve had that discussion before and its just not as simple as that ... what if you spin your car around ? the best thing to do is stay put and wait till everybody behind you has passed safely and turn the car around after that

[inCogNito]

it's a thin red line if you have something like a blacklist.

because even a replay may not be enough proof because there could be a history before an incident which you can't see in the replay.

It should only be used extreme cases like this, but not for every accident that happens.

[Theafro]

just a little ban based on the weight of evidence agains them i know it sounds a little bit ott but if someones being an arse they need to be shown it's not welcome

we need the introduction of some sort of rated server so if you aint got cred you cant come in, it's not nice to be eliteist like that but it means that clean honest racers will be guarenteed clean races and the punks will be uable to join one UNTIL they've improved their rating (based on something like crashes per mile etc). it used to be that the licienced servers were all clean but now due to increased popularity there are more 'problems' we need another way to filter these out (without effecting the VITAL flow of noobs into the game)

what's the dev's official opinion on this one?

[Ant]

As someone who has hit a wrecker and been baned from a server by the guy who then drove into me, I would agree something to stop wreckers would be a good idea.

Could some sort of credability rating be introduced based on distance ? Each mile/km on a clean lap could be totaled and when greater than some well thought up distance level, the player gains a point of credability. This wouldn't hurt the slower but clean racers but I would imagine it would hurt the wreckers, I dont think they would be so likly to have clocked up the laps.

[frokki]

I've never actually seen a real Wrecker on S2, but I don't resist lifetime bans if it's legal and evidence is clear.

[dUmAsS]

1.5 Extreme disruptive or offensive behaviour by a user, towards the developers or members of the community, may result in temporary or permanent suspension of the user's Live for Speed license.

do we have a good candidate? ;)

[the_angry_angel]

Edit: Nevermind.

[L(Oo)ney]

do we have a good candidate? ;)

Thats not for us to decide. :tilt:

[sil3ntwar]

i have another replay from a few weeks back with sonic and his mate wrecking. I just pm'ed the server admin about it though. here is the file: http://www.sil3ntwar.com/lfs/mpr/

[Slartibartfast]

do we have a good candidate? ;)

That replay looks really bad... But a life time ban? Taking away someones paid license? It's going to have to be preceded by a replay that's at least blatant as that one. Then, first, a written warning with a demand for explanation. (To gauge the headspace of the clown(s) pulling that junk.) Maybe a three strikes rule? Those two may get their heads together when threatened with permanent supension. And who's going to have that nasty responsibility? I think Scavier have better things to do with thier time than police idiots like that. (Naturally, one would be permitted to buy another license.... and get it taken again... and buy another.... )

As far as auto kick/ban goes, can't happen. Honest mistakes would be penalized.

To the racers in the race - Looking good! That was a swell race up to a point.

To the wreckers - Hope your having a good laugh. When you lose your license, you can LAN and wreck into each other 'til the cows come home. Which, by the way, you should have found an empty server and done that anyway. Cause now you're screwed.

[xapexcivicx]

That replay looks really bad... But a life time ban? Taking away someones paid license? It's going to have to be preceded by a replay that's at least blatant as that one. Then, first, a written warning with a demand for explanation. (To gauge the headspace of the clown(s) pulling that junk.) Maybe a three strikes rule? Those two may get their heads together when threatened with permanent supension. And who's going to have that nasty responsibility? I think Scavier have better things to do with thier time than police idiots like that. (Naturally, one would be permitted to buy another license.... and get it taken again... and buy another.... )

As far as auto kick/ban goes, can't happen. Honest mistakes would be penalized.

To the racers in the race - Looking good! That was a swell race up to a point.

To the wreckers - Hope your having a good laugh. When you lose your license, you can LAN and wreck into each other 'til the cows come home. Which, by the way, you should have found an empty server and done that anyway. Cause now you're screwed.
I completely agree with that entire comment. If you going to wreck then make your own server. I've seen them up before, so just look around.

[Lola Popeye]

how about 'ban the wreckers' website? where all the server admins can gather (these who wish to participate) and if you see a wrecker, you post a replay, a panel will then analyse and then give the verdict. if guilty, the appropiate punishment will be dealt out, ie. 1 week ban, 1 month ban etc. I think the mindset of these guys are 'the worst that can happen is i get banned from this server, theres plenty more around'. But if 1 wrecking stunt causes you to be banned from half the servers, they might reconsider :P

Maybe you can build something like this into CRC?

[frokki]

Since there's been the PC Zone thing, and lot of talking about wrecking, not demo-only, but in S2 aswell, I'd really like to see the dev's stick to this.

Lola Popeye's "ban the wreckers - website" is a good idea i think. Or some place you can upload *.mpr's and then the developers or some guys authorized by developers would check them. And for two wrecking replays, the wrecker would lose his lisence, for example.

[Racer Y]

I got an idea..... and it DOESN'T involve violence and is safe, legal
and fun for the whole family! :)

Why don't these two guys get a personal letter in an e mail stating that their actions were grossly intolerable and have their license suspended til they make a public apology?

I'm serious. Could THAT be done?
I think just some sort a permanent ban really would be as severe a punishment as having to make them come here and beg for forgiveness.

And also, with a permanent ban they'd just go around saying, "LFS sucks! They ban you for no reason just to scam your money!", or something like it.
If they had the option of just coming here and apologising though, then they can't really say stuff like that as easy and I also doubt that they'd really
want to act like that again on an LFS server.

I dunno... just a thought.

[RudiTurbo]

There could be a note that wrecking other drivers races in online servers will result in a perm ban.

That's it, there would be a legal rule to take away Licenses from the wreckers :)

[mosquito25]

I was on this server with two teammates, clean & fun races (but some mistakes, sry Jeep & Seeracer ;)) before theses two f*****g $#!@$s join and start their job. And this is'nt the full replay, they've keep this up : driving slow in the straights in single file and braking soon, changing their race line when overtaken, and so on. Unfortunately, I've deleted the replay.

At the end, we left the server

ps : posting a link on LFS France forum, hoping they'll be banned from a lot of servers, til they apologize.

[frokki]

There could be a note that wrecking other drivers races in online servers will result in a perm ban.

That's it, there would be a legal rule to take away Licenses from the wreckers :)

1.5Extreme disruptive or offensive behaviour by a user, towards the developers or members of the community, may result in temporary or permanent suspension of the user's Live for Speed license.

Just change few words :)

[tpa]

I would say taking the license away completely is a bit harsh.
It's kinda like why I am against the death penalty, cause you can very rarely be 100% percent sure of the persons guilt.
I am just thinking if someone hacked my account and then went mad online. Or if my friends are being drunk and go wreck online during a party when I am not in the room :D (actually happend, but that was in the S1 demo days).

I like the idea of having a ban for say 2 weeks or up to a month for wreckers. Racer Y's suggestion about writing apologies is nice, too but I don't know if it's very practical.

[ysu]

I would say taking the license away completely is a bit harsh.
It's kinda like why I am against the death penalty, cause you can very rarely be 100% percent sure of the persons guilt.
I am just thinking if someone hacked my account and then went mad online. Or if my friends are being drunk and go wreck online during a party when I am not in the room :D (actually happend, but that was in the S1 demo days).

I like the idea of having a ban for say 2 weeks or up to a month for wreckers. Racer Y's suggestion about writing apologies is nice, too but I don't know if it's very practical.
Altho it's a bit harsh, a temp ban is quite good solution imho.
As with the death penalty: why is it any better to sit in a hole, family, friends, workmates all thinking you're a criminal, your life is completely cut...?
There's no way to regain the life which was lost after 10 years. But it costs much more. much much more. (and not just in money)
I dont' agree with you on that part :-)

[MyBoss]

Look at this
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=558


As it seems that replays are allowed I will upload mine when I get the time.

[ColeusRattus]

Altho it's a bit harsh, a temp ban is quite good solution imho.
As with the death penalty: why is it any better to sit in a hole, family, friends, workmates all thinking you're a criminal, your life is completely cut...?
There's no way to regain the life which was lost after 10 years. But it costs much more. much much more. (and not just in money)
I dont' agree with you on that part :-)

Sorry for O/T, but arguing pro death penalty with "costs" is quite distastefull (although you meant "more" than money). Also, it is an utterly wrong assumpiton, because it is not like "sentence spoken - bang- you're dead". The inmates of deathrow sit in their cells for decades, not knowing when (or even if) the sentence will be carried out. Can't imagine that being better than "sitting in a hole, family, friends, workmates all thinking you're a criminal, your life is completely cut..." (Despite the thought if mine, that people will think that too, if you are sentenced to death...)
Also, death penalty is purely based on the primal urge for revenge, very much like the millenia-old Codex Hammurabi: "eye for an eye". Sure, this offers "absolute" justice on the first view, but on a second glance, how is the hangman ethically better than the hanged murderer?
On the other hand, I am a "militant" pacifist and I generally object any kind of killing, except for the means of utter survival: hunger or last ressort defense ;)


Anyhow I think that you shouldn't ban the licenses of wreckers. Rather leave it to the admins, who they allow on their server, and who not.
Allthough I agree there should be a specific place where people could exchange replays and so forth. Maybe even a Blacklist, allthough I object having such lists publically abailable... maybe a Admin-only forum?

[Jimi]

I experienced "h0lz" and "son!c" as stupid wreckers many times, too.

THEY DESERVE A LIFETIME BAN! :nana:

[Theafro]

<RANT>
a temporary ban is the best option IMHO, it gives a definate message of YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE, to the wreckers, only temporary tho, start off with a weeks ban, then move up to a month, then go permanent, all that has to happen is, if you get hassled by wreckers then save the replay, sending them a warning via e-mail if we've got a few 'naughty' replays would do for a start, then once we got a few replays (at least 5 clear cases against them) then start the banning.

if they have any objections with the bans then let them appeal to the powers that be, it means that even if somehow you had innocently caused five seperate wrecks and they wre all recorded and submitted you colud still plead your case and regain your licience.

all this makes me think we could do with a 'judicial body' of some sort maybe a group of trusted server admin's etc should get together to asses the evidence and then decide the appropriate punishment.

one thing should be made very clear to ALL players (especially impressionable noobs) that wrecking is ANTI-SOCIAL AND UNWELCOME

i think LFS has got one of the frendliest communities going, but we gotta show the dickwads we will NOT TAKE ANY BULLSH!T!

<RANT/>

thats better! :)

[Jimi]

Does anyone know the LSFW-name of "h0lz"?

(s0n!c = LFSW-name too)

Please post it, that admins are able to ban.

[Phill]

<RANT>
a temporary ban is the best option IMHO, it gives a definate message of YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE, to the wreckers, only temporary tho, start off with a weeks ban, then move up to a month, then go permanent, all that has to happen is, if you get hassled by wreckers then save the replay, sending them a warning via e-mail if we've got a few 'naughty' replays would do for a start, then once we got a few replays (at least 5 clear cases against them) then start the banning.

if they have any objections with the bans then let them appeal to the powers that be, it means that even if somehow you had innocently caused five seperate wrecks and they wre all recorded and submitted you colud still plead your case and regain your licience.

all this makes me think we could do with a 'judicial body' of some sort maybe a group of trusted server admin's etc should get together to asses the evidence and then decide the appropriate punishment.

one thing should be made very clear to ALL players (especially impressionable noobs) that wrecking is ANTI-SOCIAL AND UNWELCOME

i think LFS has got one of the frendliest communities going, but we gotta show the dickwads we will NOT TAKE ANY BULLSH!T!

<RANT/>

thats better! :)

Uhmm.. well yes i agree on most points! But remember people paid for this, they feel they can do whatever they want... This'll result in reallife lawsuits..

[SniperX]

Does anyone know the LSFW-name of "h0lz"?

(s0n!c = LFSW-name too)

Please post it, that admins are able to ban.
As long as the replay still is uploaded its no problem to ban from it.
I would say that each Admin must see the evidence to be able to ban someone..

[TDSyco]

But remember people paid for this, they feel they can do whatever they want... This'll result in reallife lawsuits.

But people can Ban them from Servers without interfering any Laws.
They bought the Game, they can play it, but for beeing wreckers the are not able to join any Server......

[AndroidXP]

Imo that "ban website" would be the best solution. Depending on the severity of the wreckings a "permanent ban" should be applied after 2-3 occurences.

For example
---
Mr X wrecks on a server. It's clear that the wrecking was on purpose so he gets a one week ban to cool down and think about his actions.

After one and a half week Mr X gets caught again, but this time it isn't so severe, but it was clearly intentional again. Seeing that he has wrecked again before (so no learning included) this again results in a one week ban.

For the third time Mr X has been caught, showing no tendency to improve. He receives a permanent ban.
---

How this permanent ban works is a matter of discussion here. The "unofficial" way of a long ban from the servers who utilize the ban-website seems to be insufficient, while removing the S2 license is overly harsh imo. He should officially be banned from joining ANY server for a certain amount of time (half a year - again depending on the severity), but he should still be able to wreck his A.I. drivers all he wants.

He bought the product and is entitled to play, but because his ONLINE behaviour is nonexcusable he is banned from any online activity. End.

[Huru-aito]

Uhmm.. well yes i agree on most points! But remember people paid for this, they feel they can do whatever they want... This'll result in reallife lawsuits..

By accepting the license agreement they have also accepted the fact that bad behaviour on servers might result in account being removed. Already said in this thread. "I didn't read the agreement" isn't an excuse :D

[Theafro]

Uhmm.. well yes i agree on most points! But remember people paid for this, they feel they can do whatever they want... This'll result in reallife lawsuits..

a lawduit would be fair enough if they had not been previously warned they were acting in a manner UNFIT for online play.
as long as they are aware that they are in the wrong then they've got no excuses

i'm suggesting that they would start off with a 1 week ban. not exactly serious but it'll get the message across. and for those who just don't learn then we gotta hit 'em with something more 'memorable',(a couple of months off or even revoking their licience) yeah they've paid for this game but so did i and all the thousands of others players, and i don't think the loss of a couple of crash kiddies from the game is gonna dent the sales as much as it would if they stayed. i'm not saying we should take this too far and start banning peeps left, right and center. but when a serious repeat offender starts making life difficult we need to deal with 'em firmly and fairly, instead of just umming and ahhing about it.

IMHO :)

[Seahorse]

Execute them live on TV. Should reduce wreckers immediately...:saythat:

[Da Hoe]

Does anyone know the LSFW-name of "h0lz"?

(s0n!c = LFSW-name too)

Please post it, that admins are able to ban.

his lfsw-name is h0lz. you only can't find him because he got the option enabled to hide his online stats.

[X-Ter]

Please excuse a fairly new member of the LFS community for asking... But how (if possible) do you create a list of people not welcome on your server?

[F1Racer]

Just watched the replay.

That is so sad :( What a couple of low-lifes.
Nothing better to do than ruin what was a really good clean race.

I really dont understand this kind of mentality and attitude.
I myself am not known for having an even temper, and as angry or frustrated as I might get while racing, I could never ever bring myself to do something like this to people I dont even know and have never done anything to me.

The only thing that would make me deliberately hit someone and/or spoil their race, is if they did it to me first - if I was provoked (which has happened before).
I would never go out there to ruin any races, so if I crash or hit someone, its always by pure accident and never with bad intentions.
But to just join a race in order to ruin it... well its just the pinnacle of arseholiness.

Might be an idea for people to agree to simply not join servers that dont allow kick/bans to be voted for. Then the server admins would have to enable it if they want people on their servers.
Not having that option is suicide in times like that.

I would also definately be in favour of a car being automatically sent to spectators area for the duration of the race (or even kicked) if they are 'camping' on the track for more than say 5-10s. But again, thats easy to get around by edging the car forward and backwards in small increments.

I hope a workable solution can be found to weed out these tossers who have nothing better to do than play with their pricks and ruin peoples races.

[L(Oo)ney]

Please excuse a fairly new member of the LFS community for asking... But how (if possible) do you create a list of people not welcome on your server?

Go into your S2 Alpha \data\misc folder, and open the bans.ban file with notepad.

Once opened, type in their nick, save, jobs a good un. :thumb:

[Scawen]

Please excuse a fairly new member of the LFS community for asking... But how (if possible) do you create a list of people not welcome on your server?Or...

Click on "Start New Game", set to "hidden" so no-one will join, then after starting the host, click on "options" in the game setup screen. There is a button "Edit Bans" and you can add or edit bans in there.

If you wanted to ban people on a dedicated host, edit the bans as above, in your standard copy of LFS, then exit LFS, and you can copy that newly edited bans.ban file over to your dedicated hosts's folder.

[mosquito25]

Go into your S2 Alpha \data\misc folder, and open the bans.ban file with notepad.

Once opened, type in their nick, save, jobs a good un. :thumb:

Don't think it'll work, coz I've opened this file after using the ban command in LFS, the file is not in ascii, so typing the name to ban is useles IMO

The best way is to use the /ban command (see readme in LFS Folder for a full explanation)

Edit : Didn't read Scawen awnser before posting, maybe I had a problem with my bans.ban file ;)

Edit2 : it's definitely NOT ascii, so notepad is useless (sry, first time I ban someone ;))

[LawVS]

Jeez, that was just pathetic of them! Blocking the whole of turn 1 and what for?! Gah, it makes me sad that there are people that go that far to ruin other peoples' races :(

[Seahorse]

Which bit of Hampshire...:bath:

[X-Ter]

Thanks for the replys :) Appreciate it a lot!

[Theafro]

if I go on a server and there's a wrecker idiot doing his deeds i usually just leave and join another server, i just don't want to get involved with 'em, eventually the only servers they can survive on are the ones with little protection (like banning/kicking/scary admin). we'll all end up racing in servers they can't get to and they'll be left out in the cold, parked up somewhere waiting for somebody to crash into 'em!

i think a blacklist would be good for now although i'd personally like to BAN the idiots from playing online at all (it's a privelige NOT a right, and they've abused it)

i'm ranting again (this is one subject that REALLY gets my goat):pillepall

[Cue-Ball]

Would it be possible to get a dedicated section of this forum for things like this? Just a section where people could report wreckers and post replays. We, as a community, could look at the replay and determine if the wrecking was intentional. If it was, we could add the name of the wrecker to a "master ban list" that would be available for download. Then, server admins could just update their ban list every week or so and people who start new servers could easily keep out the troublemakers without starting from scratch. We could still implement staged banning (1 week, 1 month, perma) so long as admins download the updated ban list every week. We could also easily maintain a master list of who was banned, what they were banned for, and how long/how often they were banned. All of this could be done with a sticky or two in the new forum section.

This way there's no legal problems and the devs don't have to do anything (apart from creating the new section of the forum). This should make it pretty simple to get these people off the servers and reduce the overhead for server admins. Maybe someone could even make a script to download the master ban list each week so there would be no additional steps required by server admins.

edit: we would need one person who could maintain the master ban list. But other than that, this should be a very low overhead solution that would truly address the problem.

[mr_x]

Imo that "ban website" would be the best solution. Depending on the severity of the wreckings a "permanent ban" should be applied after 2-3 occurences.

For example
---
Mr X wrecks on a server. It's clear that the wrecking was on purpose so he gets a one week ban to cool down and think about his actions.

After one and a half week Mr X gets caught again, but this time it isn't so severe, but it was clearly intentional again. Seeing that he has wrecked again before (so no learning included) this again results in a one week ban.

For the third time Mr X has been caught, showing no tendency to improve. He receives a permanent ban.
---

How this permanent ban works is a matter of discussion here. The "unofficial" way of a long ban from the servers who utilize the ban-website seems to be insufficient, while removing the S2 license is overly harsh imo. He should officially be banned from joining ANY server for a certain amount of time (half a year - again depending on the severity), but he should still be able to wreck his A.I. drivers all he wants.

He bought the product and is entitled to play, but because his ONLINE behaviour is nonexcusable he is banned from any online activity. End.

hope that is only an example..... i aint a wrecker, and never will be!!:smileypuland if i do cause something then its usually from a mistake (locked wheel etc) or the other person is so laggy i dont know where they will be next (which has happened a few times aswell)

wud think someone is tryin to give me a bad name or something tsk :razz:

[felplacerad]

sOn!c has read this thread, he and hOlz joined a server i was on, i told them about it. Suddenly they wanted to play fair ...
I've got the replay (conversation) stored if anyone would like to see it ...

[hrtburnout]

show us!

[Cue-Ball]

sOn!c has read this thread, he and hOlz joined a server i was on, i told them about it. Suddenly they wanted to play fair ...
I've got the replay (conversation) stored if anyone would like to see it ...

Oh, i would LOVE to see that!

Apparently even the THREAT of a ban works wonders. Imagine what an actual ban from most every S2 server out there would do.

When a person is banned do they get any sort of message when trying to log onto a server? Is there anything that tells a person that they're banned, why they were banned, or how long the ban lasts? If not, this is something the devs should consider including.

[L(Oo)ney]

Post it..

Would rather they came here and said it though, to the people they wrecked.

And its one thing saying something, doing it is a different matter. We'll see..

[felplacerad]

sonic joins about 3 minutes into the game, and hols about 30 seconds later ..
Maybe i did not use the most friendly language at all times, sorry about that.

7:20:00 SDRA FEL: so whatsup sonic why aren't you racing?
7:21:00 <etA> s0n!c: we drive fair now.

8:10:00 <etA> s0n!c: lol thx now we are famous in LFS
8:11:00 SDRA FEL: infamous, you idiot


Here you are: http://c0m.rrnet.se/~fel/files/sonic.zip

[xapexcivicx]

This doesn't mean we need to start a thread everytime somebody wrecks us. ;)

[Cue-Ball]

This doesn't mean we need to start a thread everytime somebody wrecks us. ;)

If we can get a section of the forum dedicated to trouble makers, and if the wrecking is intentional and blatant, then yes, we could (and should) start a thread every time to get these people off the servers.

[Huru-aito]

I have to say, I think it isn't smart to call people assholes even if they were wrecking in some other race. No way you're getting a better response from them that way.

[felplacerad]

I have to say, I think it isn't smart to call people assholes even if they were wrecking in some other race. No way you're getting a better response from them that way.

I guess im not a good pedagogue. Will start studying to be a teacher this thursday though. First course: pedagogy. :)

[AndroidXP]

hope that is only an example..... i aint a wrecker, and never will be!!:smileypuland if i do cause something then its usually from a mistake (locked wheel etc) or the other person is so laggy i dont know where they will be next (which has happened a few times aswell)

wud think someone is tryin to give me a bad name or something tsk :razz:
Nonono, there's a BIG difference between crashing and intentional wrecking.

Intentional wrecking is like parking in a chicane, with the intention to ruin someones race, like that sonic and holz guys did. Usually it's very easy to distinguish between intentional wrecking and an accident.

If you brake too late into a corner or clip someone slightly and he spins or you mess up in some way or another, this is an accident and nowhere near banworthy. I wouldn't even kick you for that, as I account that to the "noob-factor" or just a lack of experience. These things happen all the time and even pros make such mistakes.

[F1Racer]

Just watced the Sonic.zip replay.

Hmm seems like a lot of false guilt to me. I dont think they care to race fair at all. Looks to me that neither of them can race well anyway so maybe thats the root of their frustrations.

A master ban-list as someone suggested would be a great (and simple) idea.
1 site hosts a master list which people download and update their LFS with on a regular basis.
Of course proof would be needed before someone got on that list.


As for the race, well I was just watching the top 2 guys. What a race that was. Huru-aito and Casper going at it lap after lap with tenths splitting them.
Great racing guys. Compliments to you. Thats what online racing is all about :)

[Gabkicks]

one time i was bored because no one else on the server was as fast as me, and there was a wrecker on the server so i taunted him. it was fun dodging him and trying to win the race at the same time. :) When its more than 1 wrecker on a server and you are in a serious race its a different story.

For some reason wreckers always attack me... lol one time i had 5 wreckers all attacking me, making walls of cars to try and make me crash and stuff like that. using teamwork to take me out :D and they fail!!!

check out these wrecking attempts by the green car :D he gave up trying to wreck me around lap 8, but i taunted him so he started up again.

[s0n!c]

Ich habe bemerkt das hier viele Deutsche gepostet haben,
deswegen meine Stellungnahme dazu auf Deutsch,
wenn einer unbedingt für die nicht deutschen übersetzen will soll er es ruhig machen !!!

Wir sind Newbies , haben das Spiel erst seit ungefähr 2 Wochen und sind deswegen nicht sonderlich gut, wir fahren auch noch mit tastatur !!! so kann man halt nicht besonders gut fahren und dreht sich öfter als man vernünftig fährt !! Aber wart ihr am anfang denn schon so gut wie jetzt ??? Wir haben uns vorher mit keinem rennspiel befasst, haben daher keinerlei erfahrung mit Rennsimulationen !!
Wir haben auch einen Clan in dem wir Counter-Strike spielen, und h0lz kam auf die Idee das wir ja auch mal ein Rennspiel online Spielen könnten. Ich fande das das eine gute Idee sei und wir kauften uns die S2 Lizenz.
Wir fahren so oft wir können und versuchen besser zu werden
Nur warum wir manchmal so Mist bei rennen machen ist eigentlich simpel !
Wenn mal ein Rennen ein paar Runden ganz ordentlich lief, aber dann durch einen Fahrfehler oder aufgrund der Tastatursteuerung ein Dreher oder Crash passiert, verzweifeln wir fast bei dem Spiel weil nichts funktionieren will !!
Dann haben wir Wut auf die anderen die gut fahren können und wollen sie dann wegrammen ! Ist zwar eigentlich dämlich aber so reagieren wir halt !
Ich find das ja eigentlich auch scheiße !! Nur wenn ich dann mal einen anderen ausversehen von der Strecke schieben regt derjeige sich meistens auf unf beschimpft uns gleich !! Nur können wir dafür das wir Newbies sind und noch nicht gut fahren können ?? Und es stimmt nicht wie behauptet wurde, das wir uns die Lizenz nur gekauft haben um Mist zu bauen und alle anderen zu crashen !!
Es tut uns leid das wir so reagiert haben und versuchen uns in zukunft zu bessern, wir würden uns auch über jegliche hilfe freuen die wir bekommen können ( setups, fahrtipps, ideallinie etc.)

Nochmals entschuldigung für die Fahrer, deren Hotlaps bzw. Rennen wir ruiniert haben,

mfg. s0n!c & h0lz

[s0n!c]

Das hier sehe ich genauso !!! mir sind auch schon solche begegnet wenn ich vernünftig fahre !!! ich mach mir dann nichts draus weil es ja eh nur fun races sind auf public servern und man es dort nicht so ernst nehmen sollte

[F1Racer]

If only I could understand that.
Google translation will no doubt mess that up.

[Mikkel Petersen]

Please write in english.. :/

[s0n!c]

yes i know that not everyone could understand that
but i am not very good at speaking english !!!
i am sorry with that,

s0n!c

[F1Racer]

Google did most of it.

You're newbies and you both play with keyboards. :rolleyes:

That doesnt account for you parking the cars at T1 and not moving.
If you are not familiar with the game, dont practice LFS during live races.

I doubt that post will get you much sympathy.

[Gabkicks]

Ich habe bemerkt das hier viele Deutsche gepostet haben,
deswegen meine Stellungnahme dazu auf Deutsch,
wenn einer unbedingt für die nicht deutschen übersetzen will soll er es ruhig machen !!!

Wir sind Newbies , haben das Spiel erst seit ungefähr 2 Wochen und sind deswegen nicht sonderlich gut, wir fahren auch noch mit tastatur !!! so kann man halt nicht besonders gut fahren und dreht sich öfter als man vernünftig fährt !! Aber wart ihr am anfang denn schon so gut wie jetzt ??? Wir haben uns vorher mit keinem rennspiel befasst, haben daher keinerlei erfahrung mit Rennsimulationen !!
Wir haben auch einen Clan in dem wir Counter-Strike spielen, und h0lz kam auf die Idee das wir ja auch mal ein Rennspiel online Spielen könnten. Ich fande das das eine gute Idee sei und wir kauften uns die S2 Lizenz.
Wir fahren so oft wir können und versuchen besser zu werden
Nur warum wir manchmal so Mist bei rennen machen ist eigentlich simpel !
Wenn mal ein Rennen ein paar Runden ganz ordentlich lief, aber dann durch einen Fahrfehler oder aufgrund der Tastatursteuerung ein Dreher oder Crash passiert, verzweifeln wir fast bei dem Spiel weil nichts funktionieren will !!
Dann haben wir Wut auf die anderen die gut fahren können und wollen sie dann wegrammen ! Ist zwar eigentlich dämlich aber so reagieren wir halt !
Ich find das ja eigentlich auch scheiße !! Nur wenn ich dann mal einen anderen ausversehen von der Strecke schieben regt derjeige sich meistens auf unf beschimpft uns gleich !! Nur können wir dafür das wir Newbies sind und noch nicht gut fahren können ?? Und es stimmt nicht wie behauptet wurde, das wir uns die Lizenz nur gekauft haben um Mist zu bauen und alle anderen zu crashen !!
Es tut uns leid das wir so reagiert haben und versuchen uns in zukunft zu bessern, wir würden uns auch über jegliche hilfe freuen die wir bekommen können ( setups, fahrtipps, ideallinie etc.)

Nochmals entschuldigung für die Fahrer, deren Hotlaps bzw. Rennen wir ruiniert haben,

mfg. s0n!c & h0lz
(rough translation)
I have have noted that here many German gepostet, therefore my attitude in addition in German, if an unconditionally for the not German
translate wants to should it it quietly make!!

We are Newbies, have had the game first for approximately 2 weeks and are therefore not particular good, we go also yet with keyboard!!! so can one simply not especially well go and revolves rationally goes more often than one! Were you but at the beginning then already as good as now??? We engaged previously in no rennspiel, have therefore no experience at all with Rennsimulationen! We have play also a Clan in that we Counter-strike, and h0lz came could the games Online we also once a Rennspiel on the idea. Let I fande that the one good idea be and bought us we the S2 license. We go can and try race make is so often we to become better only why we sometimes so manure in actually simple! If once a racing a couple round ran happens very orderly, but then through a load mistake or based on the keyboard control a Dreher or Crash, doubt function wants we almost in the game because nothing! Then we were able to go and want fury on the other that well it then way ram! Dämlich is however so react to be sure actually we simply! I find would shit that actually also! Only if I then once another from oversight of the stretch moves push derjeige usually on unf swears at us immediately! Can only we be for that that we Newbies and go cannot yet well?? And it does not agree maintained became how, only bought have us that we the license around manure to construct and all other to crashen! It harms so reacts have and try us that we us in the future to improve, we would be happy got can also over each aid that we
(setups, load tip, ideal line etc.)

Once again apology for the drivers, whose Hotlaps and/or racing ruined we

mfg. s0n!c & h0lz

[Seahorse]

Babelfish has this to say:

I have noticed that many Germans to have gepostet here, therefore my statement in addition on German if one wants to absolutely translate for the not Germans is he it calm to make!!! We are Newbies, have the play only for approximately 2 weeks and are therefore not particularly good, we also still drive with keyboard!!! so one can drive stop not particularly well and turns more frequently than one reasonably drives!! But wait it at the beginning already as well as now??? We were concerned before with no running play, have therefore no experience with Rennsimulationen!! We have also a clan in which we Counter Strike to play, and h0lz came on the idea which we also times a running play on-line plays could. I fande that a good idea am and we bought the S2 license. We so often drive we can and to try become better only why we muck with run in such a way sometimes to make are actually simple! If times running ran completely properly a few rounds, but then due to a driving error or due to the keyboard price increase a turner or a Crash happened, we despair nearly with the play because nothing to function want!! Then we could drive on the others those to rage well and want them then to away-ram! Is actually daemlich however in such a way react we to stop! I find that actually also shits!! Only if I then times another out-provided of the distance push moves derjeige mostly onto unf insults yourselves for us equal!! Only can we for it which we to Newbies are and not yet well to drive be able?? And it is not correct as was stated, to crashen which we only bought the license around muck to build and all different!! It does to us wrong which we in such a way reacted and to try us in the future to improve, we also about any assistance to make happy whom we get could itself (setups, fahrtipps, ideal line etc..) Again apology for the drivers, whose Hotlaps and/or running we ruined,
I say they are still muppets...:smash3d:

[s0n!c]

lol
very rough translation!!!
but i hope that all can understand it !!
thx for translation!!!

and........

thx for the nice post,too (f1racer)

[AndroidXP]

Nunja, es ist verständlich, dass man sich ärgert wenn mans mal wieder verhaut, aber das gibt euch noch lange nicht das Recht das Rennen anderer zu zerstören. Zu sagen "naja, so reagier' ich halt" ist schonmal garkeine Ausrede, sondern ein deutliches Anzeichen dafür, dass ihr was an eurem Verhalten ändern müsst. Auch wenn das jetzt ein (vielleicht unfaires) Schubladendenken ist, aber eine andere Reaktion auf das "Verlieren" hätte ich mir von dem Durchschnitts-CS Spieler auch nicht erwartet. Was in CS die Teamkiller und Cheater das hier die "Wrecker".

Naja, soviel zu den bösen Worten, jetzt zu den Tipps ;):
Ladet euch mal ein paar Weltrekords-Replays runter (aus LFS World (http://www.lfsworld.net/)) und seht den Fahrern zu, das sollte schonmal bezüglich Ideallinie und Bremspunkte einiges bringen
Setups gibt es schon einige, wenn ihr hier nix findet, versucht mal die alten RSC Foren (http://forum.rscnet.org/forumdisplay.php?forumid=205) oder das Setup Field (http://setupfield.teaminferno.hu/)
Das Verhalten auf der Rennstrecke sollte, vorallem wenn man noch wenig Erfahrung hat, sehr defensiv sein. Geht die Kurven ruhig und gelassen an - ein Dreher schadet nämlich viel mehr als was man durch die aggressivere Fahrweise wett gemacht hätte. Smoothness is the key to speed!
Bezüglich Bremsen in der Nähe anderer Wagen: Relativ früh zu bremsen beginnen! Besser ein bisschen langsamer durch die Kurve als das halbe Feld abzuräumen. Ausserdem, für jeden Wagen vor euch müsst ihr ein paar Meter früher zu Bremsen beginnen, als ihr das bei einer Hotlap tun würdet. Ihr müsst ausserdem damit rechnen, dass der Vorderwagen früher als normal bremsen könnte, also Achtung!
Kauft euch ein Lenkrad. Das Fahren wird dadurch deutlich einfacher und gleichzeitig realistischer. Wenn möglich sollte es ein Lenkrad mit Force Feedback sein, im Notfall geht aber auch eins ohne. FF macht das Fahren nochmal einen Tick einfacher, da man viel mehr fühlt was der Wagen gerade macht, ob er Grip hat oder nicht, etc.
Üben, üben, üben! Die anderen Fahrer haben auch nicht nach zwei Wochen so schnell fahren können, sondern fahren wahrscheinlich schon mehr als zwei Jahre.
Siehe Punkt 6.

[mr_x]

Nonono, there's a BIG difference between crashing and intentional wrecking.

Intentional wrecking is like parking in a chicane, with the intention to ruin someones race, like that sonic and holz guys did. Usually it's very easy to distinguish between intentional wrecking and an accident.

If you brake too late into a corner or clip someone slightly and he spins or you mess up in some way or another, this is an accident and nowhere near banworthy. I wouldn't even kick you for that, as I account that to the "noob-factor" or just a lack of experience. These things happen all the time and even pros make such mistakes.

that wasnt my point... just u used 'Mr X' (my racer name btw) as an example, i know u mean anyone by that and not me in particular! jst bein picky that all :tilt: now im just confusing myself so i will shut up

anyway *gets back OT* there is NO excuse for just stopping in turn 1, even if you are new!! even newbies tend to stop on the edge of the track and not on the apex of a corner blocking the track, its just common sense to stop on the grass!!

hope that made some sort of sense, im veeery tired :D

Chris

[AndroidXP]

:ices_rofl:schwitz: Oops! No sorry, I didn't mean you :D

[tpa]

Well sonic, I am not sure about you but h0lz parked his car in t1 right after he joined the server, and not just after a couple of laps, as you claim!

I especially dislike what you wrote here:


Dann haben wir Wut auf die anderen die gut fahren können und wollen sie dann wegrammen ! Ist zwar eigentlich dämlich aber so reagieren wir halt !


"Then were are mad at at the others that are good drivers and wanted to ramm them off the track. It's kind of silly but thats just the way we are"

:pillepall

I don't know, I guess it was just a question of time until CS kiddies like you burst into the LFS scene. You are the teamkillers of LFS, ruining the fun for everyone else.
If you were actually serious about this game you would have completed the training or at least have practiced offline so that you could get a clean lap on the track, before joining servers.
No, I was not as quick as I am now when I first started playing LFS but I know that I have always tried to be a good racer and I have never pissed off other racers purposly.
Your behaviour just shows your massive immaturity, as does you post trying to justify this behaviour, which by the way lacks any kind of real argumentation.

You have to understand that LFS, or every other racing simulator, is very different from games like Counter Strike or whatever.
In CS you might be the hero of your team one round, because you killed every member of the opposing team with a lucky headshot, but in LFS there simply is no luck! You will never get a fast lap, just because of luck in every corner. LFS is all about skill and pratice (= time). If you want to be fast, you have to pratice hard and a lot.
And once you have invested enough time to be competitive and go online to have fun races with other equally enthusiastic racers, your race is spoiled by some idiots that are pissed off because of their inability to keep their cars on the track... you have to understand that people will become angry at these idiots.

The people on the servers will share their setups 99% of the time, if you ask them nicely. Also, if you need advice about driving the cars, almost all of the faster drivers will give you some! Just ask.
It will also help to start off with the slower cars like the UF1, the XF GT or the XF GTI. Learn to drive these cars fast, and then move on to the quicker cars!!! Back in the S1 days we didn't have any of the really fast cars. AND WE LIKED IT!

so... either you guys become somewhat serious about playing this game, or piss off!
If you want to become serious, the first thing to do is buying a proper wheel.

[mosquito25]

@s0n!c. The german community is very big, and many members have good skills in english, I'm quite sure you can find someone to translate in english.

Da Hoe can do that maybe. And I think you know him very well : he was leading the race when you parked both in T1, ruining his race.

ps : s0n!c played with kb, but hOlz has a wheel, and it seems s0n!c can drive well whith kbd, when he wants, for example to hit his friend, or to join him in T1.

[LRB_Aly]

1. You will never get a fast lap, just because of luck in every corner. LFS is all about skill and pratice (= time). If you want to be fast, you have to pratice hard and a lot.

2. And once you have invested enough time to be competitive and go online to have fun races with other equally enthusiastic racers, your race is spoiled by some idiots that are pissed off because of their inability to keep their cars on the track... you have to understand that people will become angry at these idiots.



First of all, i also can't understand the behaviour we saw here:
Then we are mad ... and wreck them of the track.

1. Completely agreed. It's about practice, and you can learn a great deal when you just take a look at other more experienced racers on how they drive, where they brake and how they attack corners.

2. Not completely agreed. Well it's simple to say you have to practice offline and when you're good go online. But it's an online simulator, so you can't just tell people to stay offline until they're good. It's also possible to drive online, even if you're not good (fast), and drive clean. I think one will learn faster if he drives online and take a look at the other drivers then to learn by himself offline. Being a slow or a fast driver has nothing to do with being a clean one. What newbies have to understand is only that in the beginning it's probably more important trying to keep the car on track even if they're slow, cause i'd like to think that there isn't such a thing like ' inability to keep the car on track'. It's only a matter of how fast you're going and where you're limit of car control is. Ie if you drive BWGP with a GTI sey at constant 50 kp/h it's hard to crash, no? So it all comes down to your speed. Well it's clear that most poeple try to push, even in the beginning, and that accidents are a logical cause of this.

[Fordman]

Well for the first time "EVER" that i can remember i have just experienced sort of wreaking behaviour. The person I feel sorry for is Solar Hydro. he got voted off for hmm, nothing in my eyes. I tried in vain to stop the vote, but in the end, he got fed up and left :(

So called Team. Team IF| ( not registered with LFSWorld)

What on earth has happened here? With Licensed drivers also? Come on? This is getting out of hand, and well I know its a little bit more work, but surely the Devs can have an overal say in this sort of behaviour?

When me and Tweak started CRC in S2 demo, we said, CRC should not be needed when S2 Alpha comes out.

Seems we was wrong?

[ysu]

Sorry for O/T, but arguing pro death penalty with "costs" is quite distastefull ...
We are on different opinion here. but yes it's O/T, maybe some other time/place. I don't believe in religions either. :-)
On topic:
I've seen son1c yesterday night joining to our server, I was ready for some hardcore crap, but somehow nothing happened. He either was kicked in short order by an admin or he did behave...

[whendrix]

I'm sorry my first post on the new forum is such a negative one but after seeing the replay of Aston, I got really upset.

I do understand that people new to simracing have problems controlling the cars, getting up to speed and doing consistant laps. I also understand that using a keyboard maybe an extra handicap. I too was a rookie once, we all were, we all made mistakes at one point or another...

That being said, your apology would we a rightful one if it made any sense. Unfortunately, it upset me more than your stunts on the track. Do you really expect people to believe your post after watching the replay?

How can you say you're sorry after ruining the race for several people, blaming it on your on lack of driving skills when one can clearly see in the replay you and your friend hitting eachother and others with only one intention: making as big a pile-up as possible...

Secondly, if it was truely a driversmistake, it is always nice to say "sorry" on the server itself. A simple "sorry" never killed anyone. Clearly, neither of you guys even considered doing that. In fact, you just reposition your cars skillfully in the same blocking position to create mayhem yet again. What suddenly happened to your lack of driving skill there huh?

Replying here on the forum could have been a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, you're not even admitting you were doing something wrong but instead blame the whole thing on your lack of driving skill and/or experience... that's just plain stupid.

I've had many many races with people on the track that were considerably slower than most of the drivers but they never caused a deliberate wreck fest like both of you clearly did.

It's not your driving skills that have to improved dudes, it's your attitude.

Until you realize that, go back to your own CS servers where you can be king of the hill by fragging your own team members ...

Wim

EDIT: Maybe some think this is an isolated case... in a way it is, fortunately I would say. But imo it can set a certain mood resulting in people getting kicked or banned for unjustified reasons if no action is being undertaken against the stupid behaviour shown in the posted replay.

[MyBoss]

s0n!c: if you and your buddy keep this work up, then you most likely will be banned from most servers.

[Teufel]

Being a "noob" by myself (well, played a few weeks S1 after release but had to quit soon lacking of time) I know how hard it is to keep the car under control (no other driving simulator driven since my old S1-expirence). For me the border of when being ready to join (not compete :) ) online-games is very hard to locate.

At the moment I'm refusing to join online-session and train offline several basic tracks with the XR GT instead. Building up a solid knowledge and feeling of a RWD-car. Now I'm already beginning to drive some constant laps without spinning off the track. With the feeling of having the car under control comes also the speed. The hardest lesson to learn was not pushing the car over it's and my limits. Big advantage is also that the tires will start to build up more grip. When you're resetting the car (in offline-training) after every corner the tires are always at low temperature = less grip = more frustation.

I think (you tell me) that's about the time to join online races and learn how to drive with other cars on the track.

But maybe you need to be 28 years old (and therefor have the money to buy a steering wheel when you are in the mood) to go this way. :D

Cheers
Teufel aka Mathias

[Jimi]

Ich habe bemerkt das hier viele Deutsche gepostet haben,
deswegen meine Stellungnahme dazu auf Deutsch,
wenn einer unbedingt für die nicht deutschen übersetzen will soll er es ruhig machen !!!

Wir sind Newbies , haben das Spiel erst seit ungefähr 2 Wochen und sind deswegen nicht sonderlich gut, wir fahren auch noch mit tastatur !!! so kann man halt nicht besonders gut fahren und dreht sich öfter als man vernünftig fährt !! Aber wart ihr am anfang denn schon so gut wie jetzt ??? Wir haben uns vorher mit keinem rennspiel befasst, haben daher keinerlei erfahrung mit Rennsimulationen !!
Wir haben auch einen Clan in dem wir Counter-Strike spielen, und h0lz kam auf die Idee das wir ja auch mal ein Rennspiel online Spielen könnten. Ich fande das das eine gute Idee sei und wir kauften uns die S2 Lizenz.
Wir fahren so oft wir können und versuchen besser zu werden
Nur warum wir manchmal so Mist bei rennen machen ist eigentlich simpel !
Wenn mal ein Rennen ein paar Runden ganz ordentlich lief, aber dann durch einen Fahrfehler oder aufgrund der Tastatursteuerung ein Dreher oder Crash passiert, verzweifeln wir fast bei dem Spiel weil nichts funktionieren will !!
Dann haben wir Wut auf die anderen die gut fahren können und wollen sie dann wegrammen ! Ist zwar eigentlich dämlich aber so reagieren wir halt !
Ich find das ja eigentlich auch scheiße !! Nur wenn ich dann mal einen anderen ausversehen von der Strecke schieben regt derjeige sich meistens auf unf beschimpft uns gleich !! Nur können wir dafür das wir Newbies sind und noch nicht gut fahren können ?? Und es stimmt nicht wie behauptet wurde, das wir uns die Lizenz nur gekauft haben um Mist zu bauen und alle anderen zu crashen !!
Es tut uns leid das wir so reagiert haben und versuchen uns in zukunft zu bessern, wir würden uns auch über jegliche hilfe freuen die wir bekommen können ( setups, fahrtipps, ideallinie etc.)

Nochmals entschuldigung für die Fahrer, deren Hotlaps bzw. Rennen wir ruiniert haben,

mfg. s0n!c & h0lz

That's extremely impudent...

[DasKlee]

Being a "noob" by myself (well, played a few weeks S1 after release but had to quit soon lacking of time) I know how hard it is to keep the car under control (no other driving simulator driven since my old S1-expirence). For me the border of when being ready to join (not compete :) ) online-games is very hard to locate.

At the moment I'm refusing to join online-session and train offline several basic tracks with the XR GT instead. Building up a solid knowledge and feeling of a RWD-car. Now I'm already beginning to drive some constant laps without spinning off the track. With the feeling of having the car under control comes also the speed. The hardest lesson to learn was not pushing the car over it's and my limits. Big advantage is also that the tires will start to build up more grip. When you're resetting the car (in offline-training) after every corner the tires are always at low temperature = less grip = more frustation.

I think (you tell me) that's about the time to join online races and learn how to drive with other cars on the track.

But maybe you need to be 28 years old (and therefor have the money to buy a steering wheel when you are in the mood) to go this way. :D

Cheers
Teufel aka Mathias

the problem is not about being inexperienced and going online, it's about being careless and going online. none (well not many) of the drivers have problems with slow cars on the track. the day it isn't allowed to drive around the track while not being as fast as the leaders will be the death of this game. this kind of thinking doesn't belong in a game called 'ONLINE racing simulator' - not allowing new users that paid for it to drive online...

drivers like you (and probably me) aren't the guys that ruin the races - as long as you try not to mess up the other drivers races and stay out of their way while being lapped, there's no need to practice offline only. and if you stick to the cars you can control, you will have fun online even without perfect driving skills

i haven't raced the FO8 online because i can't control it - but knowing my limits i can still have fun online racing with some not as difficult to control cars. there's a large german community with some fun-events where also slower guys kan participate over at the german forums (http://lfs.foren.4players.de/index.php) and also some newbie friendly league racing is going on at the OLFSL (http://www.lfs-league.com/)

[Hankstar]

CS - no alarms and no suprises there. Just seems to breed em :D Some people need to learn that you don't play LFS like CS - i.e., you don't KILL people, you race them :)

Simple, you noobs (if, in fact, your assertion that the foolishness and wrecking was a result of inexperience and not plain old stupidity) - don't race online until you can beat the AI on Pro without crashing. Suck with keyboards? Practice! People unhappy with you on a server? Leave! There's usually a crash server somewhere. Don't know English? That's ok! Just let people race ffs...

[mosquito25]

Simple, you noobs (if, in fact, your assertion that the foolishness and wrecking was a result of inexperience and not plain old stupidity)
There are two replays as attachement in this thread. As S2 licensed, you can see by yourself. IMO, this definitely not inexperience, there are'nt noobs, but real wreckers.

ps : they're already banned for a lot of french servers for a while, at least til REAL & SINCERE apologize, not this sort of stupid draft I've seen.

ps2 : As I said before, I've posted a link on this thread on LFS France forum, and some french racers replied : hOlz & s0n!c were already well known as wreckers by other french racers

[Hankstar]

I saw the replay and that's why I said "if". I didn't think for a minute those actions weren't plain stupid.
Cheers though :)