Single Formula 1 Track to go With BMW

[Marc Ainley]

The Sauber BMW is a fantastic addition to Live For Speed, but most of the current LFS tracks are not really good enough for the BF1. rF is going to get the BMW and the Nurburgring track... We need one F1 track, I think.

My first question is, which would be the easiest to get permission to make? What processes are needed to get the rights to make the track?

I was thinking, if rF can get the Nurburgring, so can we. If not, Silverstone or Spa would be great to see in the game.

Any ideas? Please don't flame me, giving me the "LFS isn't finished yet", it's just an idea.

[Flotch]

the BMW was given for "free" to the LFS team, I am not sure the Nurburgring was given for free to rF. That is the point.

[axus]

Well, it would be nice, but Eric's perfectionism means that it would take a few months to model atleast. If someone has connections and can pull a few strings and get a license for LFS for one of the tracks, I can see it happening. I think, if you guys have any connections, ask around and see if you can arrange it. Then take the offer to the LFS team. It can't hurt to ask, after all. I have no actual connections... maybe Zwartkops raceway, but that's a mickey mouse track, really.

[Marc Ainley]

Well, thanks for telling me :)

But maybe a track which isn't in the Formula 1 calendar, but is used for testing, e.g: Jerez, or Paul Ricard?

[axus]

I could try Kyalami, through someone else whom I know who has a lot of connections for this type of thing. That's a nice track, but I'm sure it will be more difficult :)

[Marc Ainley]

But my point is, Kylami isn't a real F1 track, and probably is too slow for the current cars.

It would be good for the F08, but a track like Paul Ricard, Jerez or Valencia would be much better suited to the BF1.

[axus]

Probably... I remember BMW-Williams doing testing here a few years back though.

[Marc Ainley]

Yeah, when F1 cars were slower :tilt:

[axus]

Yeah, when F1 cars were slower :tilt:

Not really. Now they are quicker through corners, but slower on the straights. They are 200hp down on what they had then but have more downforce. :razz:

(EDIT: Meaning a slower track should be easier now)

[axus]

EDIT: Wrong thread. :doh:

[keiran]

Where does it say that rF is getting a track ... That will probaly be released by someone not related to ISI because there is no news on the ISI site of getting a track.

Whats wrong with the long tracks like Aston GP and historic ? Even Aston North is a good track. Theres also the long KY track.

Keiran

[Marc Ainley]

Keiran, look on the rF site, and look at the preview pics for their BMW.

[keiran]

http://www.simhq.com/_all/all_020d.html

"The bad news for race sim fans is that this mod [the BMW/Sauber] won't be available for home use any time soon, as it's a privately commissioned mod for BMW/Sauber's corporate use."

Read that ;)

[axus]

Keiran, look on the rF site, and look at the preview pics for their BMW.

And then read the ambiguous comment posted with them. It doesn't say much. Technically, even if that is indeed the Nurburgring, they are not using it for comercial purposes because they aren't selling it with the game yet. They don't really need a license for that.

[Marc Ainley]

http://www.simhq.com/_all/all_020d.html



Read that ;)

So, how come on the rF site, it says 'coming soon'?

Are you trying to say you're against the idea, then?

[keiran]

How come that interview is with the head programmer of ISI ;)

[axus]

So, how come on the rF site, it says 'coming soon'?

Are you trying to say you're against the idea, then?

Their comment is just very ambiguous. Don't take it for granted that rF is getting the car or the track officially. I'm not against the idea, I'd like to see what rF can make of an F1 car. But I also like the idea of LFS holding exclusive rights to having the car officially in-game (among race-sims at any rate).

[geeman1]

Their comment is just very ambiguous. Don't take it for granted that rF is getting the car or the track officially. I'm not against the idea, I'd like to see what rF can make of an F1 car. But I also like the idea of LFS holding exclusive rights to having the car officially in-game (among race-sims at any rate).
It could be a nice comparasion of realism when two games have the same car. Now we just need Heidfeld or Villeneuve to do the testing :smileypul

[Marc Ainley]

That's what I said, I would love Paul Ricard,

[KiDCoDEa]

They don't really need a license for that.

i doubt thats true. it would be very easy to prove rf is directly benefiting from using that track on the f1 show. In fact they are only there due to it. So they must have some kind of licensing, otherwise they are sue material.

[keiran]

That's what I said, I would love Paul Ricard,

You'd need to throw some money Bernies way before that would happen :razz:

[Marc Ainley]

Well one of the questions in my first post was, "which would be the easiest track to get hold of?" :tilt:

[axus]

Well one of the questions in my first post was, "which would be the easiest track to get hold of?" :tilt:

Any easy-to-get-hold-of track is probably so mickey mouse you'd rather drive fantasy tracks. The only way to get hold of a good real track is with connections.

[SamH]

I still think KY GP Long is a superb F1 track. Tomorrow's (now today's) GP is going to take about 1min20 to do a lap, and KYGPLong is about 1min47 in a BF1, so I think the track length isn't a problem. AS GT is long nice and long, and varied and challenging, and I think is comfortably up to F1 standards. I personally don't much care for Fern Bay Black as an F1 track, though other Fern Bay configs are a dream for other classes. The track configs are there in LFS already for F1, though.

That doesn't mean I don't think anyone should try to get a real F1-calendar track for LFS. If it can be done, woohoo etc.

[Tweaker]

Even though I fully support having real tracks for some comparison, I'd much rather see Eric create his own tracks.

Imagine Westhill as the 'Nurburgring'. Westhill GP being the GP Nurb track, and an extra 'historic' Westhill that is the 14 mile 'Ring' course :hyper: :D What I am dreaming of currently ;)

[ayrton senna 87]

i would love to see monaco but SO Long is pretty similar!
barcelona would be wicked too

[axus]

The point is... we ain't getting a real track till we get off our collective lazy behinds and go to the tracks, telling them why it will be good and profitable for them to include the track in LFS and then contact the devs about it and see if they are interested.

[Tweaker]

I've always wanted to confront some big names at Laguna Seca sometimes... I would die to have that track in LFS :)

Maybe one of these days I will be really desperate and see if I could pull it off, lol!!!

[axus]

I've always wanted to confront some big names at Laguna Seca sometimes... I would die to have that track in LFS :)

Maybe one of these days I will be really desperate and see if I could pull it off, lol!!!

What is there to loose? :smileypul

[Sawyer]

I still think KY GP Long is a superb F1 track. Tomorrow's (now today's) GP is going to take about 1min20 to do a lap, and KYGPLong is about 1min47 in a BF1, so I think the track length isn't a problem. AS GT is long nice and long, and varied and challenging, and I think is comfortably up to F1 standards. I personally don't much care for Fern Bay Black as an F1 track, though other Fern Bay configs are a dream for other classes. The track configs are there in LFS already for F1, though.

That doesn't mean I don't think anyone should try to get a real F1-calendar track for LFS. If it can be done, woohoo etc.

Its not about how long it takes to go around but how the track is generally build. It must be wide for F1 cars. I really dont enyoj this Sauber BMW at all without proper tracks so I dont play it.

[Rappa Z]

i would like the Montreal gp 'cause it's rather short and easy to make.

Or Watkins Glen.
Even though I fully support having real tracks for some comparison, I'd much rather see Eric create his own tracks.

Imagine Westhill as the 'Nurburgring'. Westhill GP being the GP Nurb track, and an extra 'historic' Westhill that is the 14 mile 'Ring' course What I am dreaming of currently

ohh, i'd like that.

[farcar]

Its not about how long it takes to go around but how the track is generally build. It must be wide for F1 cars. I really dont enyoj this Sauber BMW at all without proper tracks so I dont play it.

I reckon the longer Aston configurations are perfect for the BF1.

IRL however, I think they would be far too dangerous....:nod:

[wE1l]

Well one of the questions in my first post was, "which would be the easiest track to get hold of?" :tilt:



Why not Silverstone?


Since LFS has a solid UK fan base and also the HQ is here. One could persuade the circuit owner that a Silverstone in LFS could be very helpful for their attendance figures. Be it a race day or a public open day, people will potentially be more interested in coming to the track.:tilt:

[Marc Ainley]

You're right... Silverstone is a struggling track, and I think being recreated in popular games is a great way to get it back as it once was. With Damon Hill now the president of the BRDC, we might have some luck.

[Vykos69]

It's not about the easiest track or anything. It's a lot about money and worktime. And nothing else.

[LRB_Aly]

Spa would be great (as a track).
Very challenging and very fast track.
On most sims I owned my first driving was always on Spa (well I mostly had F1 sims) and after that at Monaco. But I think Spa would be difficult as they seem to be in finacial difficulties and I can imagine that they wanna get paid for such things like track license.

[Huru-aito]

Lack of real tracks is a major disadvantage, Eric's designs are cool and could very well be real tracks somewhere on the globe but they just aren't the same as the tracks we've gotten used to in other sims (or even in real life).

I've always liked tracks like Magny Cours, Spa and Brands Hatch in various sims (games). There's that little something in doing numerous laps on a track you know is fairly accurate to real life. No fantasy track can provide the feeling..

No, I wouldn't be satisfied (for long) with those jerky, jagged conversions of conversions of some old track models that you can download for other sims - LFS has spoiled me quality wise, but it lacks a lot of content.

EDIT: Imagining the money & hours that would go into making a real track into LFS with the same quality the fantasy tracks are, it would take ages. I can't see it happening, and it makes me sad.

[afastest]

Lack of real tracks is a major disadvantage, Eric's designs are cool and could very well be real tracks somewhere on the globe but they just aren't the same as the tracks we've gotten used to in other sims (or even in real life).

I've always liked tracks like Magny Cours, Spa and Brands Hatch in various sims (games). There's that little something in doing numerous laps on a track you know is fairly accurate to real life. No fantasy track can provide the feeling..

No, I wouldn't be satisfied (for long) with those jerky, jagged conversions of conversions of some old track models that you can download for other sims - LFS has spoiled me quality wise, but it lacks a lot of content.

EDIT: Imagining the money & hours that would go into making a real track into LFS with the same quality the fantasy tracks are, it would take ages. I can't see it happening, and it makes me sad.

Agreed. The devs don't have the money for licenses and time for modelling. Very small dev team. The only way I see it happening is either large sales increases or aqcuring licenses for very cheap, anyway modelling would take a lot of Eric's time and effort.

Right now LFS has very passive (if non-existent) marketing strategy. On one hand it is good that the devs are not so much after money, but after realistic physics and full independence over their product.

On the other hand I want LFS to be bigger, to have more sales, and ultimately I want them to have enough money to get some licenses for real tracks and to hire someone to speed up the development.

The devs seems to be somewhat perfectionists, which is good. But I think it would be reasonable to start marketing LFS after S2 final to gain more sales and have enough money to speed up the development. If someone still thinks that S3 will come in two or three years, I think they will be very disappointed at some point, because with this small team it will take 7-10 years to get to S3 final, I'm sure about it.

[axus]

The devs seems to be somewhat perfectionists, which is good. But I think it would be reasonable to start marketing LFS after S2 final to gain more sales and have enough money to speed up the development. If someone still thinks that S3 will come in two or three years, I think they will be very disappointed at some point, because with this small team it will take 7-10 years to get to S3 final, I'm sure about it.

Who said we want the ride to ever end? :D

[Becky Rose]

With Damon Hill now the president of the BRDC, we might have some luck.
Why? Damon Hill never had any...

[afastest]

Who said we want the ride to ever end? :D

I don't want the ride to end :nod: :nod: . I'd like to have S3 in three years rather than in 10 though :). We've already seen what the delays did to the part of community. I'm only saying I'd like S3 sooner rather that later, but no way at the price of giving up their principles: realistic physics, good quality and staying independant :)

[mav3rick]

i am workin in 3d for 15 years and it is my professional orientation and i would give my extra time to lfs community or erik if he need help on modeling stuff.... but i dont think that's his problem ... more like geting licence for all the stuff is bigger problem

[duke_toaster]

As far as I know, Monaco would be a possible without a licence as it is just a collection of public roads. Or adelaide. I know they would be a pain to model.

As for the tracks with less corners being driven more, I admit I am a great westhill fan.

I don't want a real F1 track... half of them are flavourless now. I wish that instead of Hermann Tilke designing new F1 tracks, a real-life westhill would be great. Oh wait, we have Oulton Park, don't we :D.

[axus]

As far as I know, Monaco would be a possible without a licence as it is just a collection of public roads. Or adelaide. I know they would be a pain to model.

Nope - they would. You can model the roads I think and you can stick some curbs on them but but as soon as you call it Monaco, you'll have problems.

[Becky Rose]

or at least very few that require braking in most of the cars.
I brake four times to go round Snetterton and three for Brands Hatch... I think the concept of throttle-strait, brake-corner is very much a misconception, most tracks i've raced have featured a number of corners and curves which did not require the use of brakes.

[RaVeR]

just make a huge nurburger ring clone with a few changes here and there :shrug:

[wE1l]

Hey people, we have to get this!



Top Gear Test Track!!!!!!:D


http://www.dunsfoldpark.co.uk/images/dpav2.jpg

[duke_toaster]

Nope - they would. You can model the roads I think and you can stick some curbs on them but but as soon as you call it Monaco, you'll have problems.

Monaco is the name of the country it's in :nod:, so I can't see why they couldn't call it that.

Or they could call it Monte Carlo, Cote D'azur etc. etc.

[Marty502]

Why? Damon Hill never had any...

Ouch!:D

[ajp71]

and three for Brands Hatch...

In what? Braking obviously for Paddock, Druids, Graham Hill but not for Surtees?


I agree that corner - throttle - straight - brake - corner maybe a misconception but often using the brakes can be faster, either to balance the car or take the ideal line. Watching Morgans at Donnington yesterday the fastest driver from the Craners to McLeans was definatley the driver who tapped the brakes in the second Craner (about the only one braking) which let him take a much faster line through the Old Harpin.

[ajp71]

Or they could call it Monte Carlo,

Not so sure, The Monte Carlo Challenge (a historic road rally) had to change its name after complaints from the organisers of the Monte Carlo Rally.

[tinvek]

how about

"the mediterainian tax haven circuit"

[axus]

how about

"the mediterainian tax haven circuit"

:D I like it.

[Yiots]

Does anyone know roughly what amount of money we are talking about to license a track? I have no idea?

[joen]

Regarding Monaco, how would that track meet the demands for an F1 track discussed here anyway? It's narrow, low speed and almost impossible to overtake. Besides, we've got South City already, which is a better track anyway. I think Monaco is a worthless circuit and should be removed from the F1 calendar. The only reason it's still there is because of the money involved.

I would like to see more tracks suitable for F1, but I think certain Aston and Kyoto configs are quite nice with the BF1. Westhill is underrated and there should be more configs of it in the future.

[TagForce]

how about

"the mediterainian tax haven circuit"

We could call it "metahaci", and pretend it's situated in Finland...
Nobody would be the wiser...
Ofcourse, corner names like Tabac, Piscine, mirabeau would give it a way, but LFS doesn't have cornernames, sooo...

[Chris_Kerry]

I know that this is going to come across wrong, but I wish people would begin to look at what we have got in LFS rather than what we haven't.

I, like everyone else would love to see additions and improvements and I also see the importance of having discussion about it on forums like these. However everytime I've visited the forum in the last couple of weeks there has been another I wish thread...

Sorry, I'm just mardy. :D

[Becky Rose]

In what? Braking obviously for Paddock, Druids, Graham Hill but not for Surtees?
I forgot that Paddock needs brakes, what can I say? I'm dangerous.

[TagForce]

I know that this is going to come across wrong, but I wish people would begin to look at what we have got in LFS rather than what we haven't.

I, like everyone else would love to see additions and improvements and I also see the importance of having discussion about it on forums like these. However everytime I've visited the forum in the last couple of weeks there has been another I wish thread...

Sorry, I'm just mardy. :D

Well, maybe that's why the devs included an "improvement suggestions" forum... Just so people can create these "I wish" threads...

Which makes me wonder why this one hasn't been moved by a mod yet ;)

[tinvek]

I know that this is going to come across wrong, but I wish people would begin to look at what we have got in LFS rather than what we haven't.

I, like everyone else would love to see additions and improvements and I also see the importance of having discussion about it on forums like these. However everytime I've visited the forum in the last couple of weeks there has been another I wish thread...

Sorry, I'm just mardy. :D

i agree, the circuits we have are pretty damm good for racing, given the level of complaints about gp circuits not allowing overtaking do we actually want / need to go down this route even if its possible ?

[DanDectis]

Its not about how long it takes to go around but how the track is generally build. It must be wide for F1 cars. I really dont enyoj this Sauber BMW at all without proper tracks so I dont play it.

I really think there are proper tracks and that car is such a rocket its fun on almost any track even if its not suited to it.
:shrug: