Mature response only! (about rFactor) [Archive]

ruckus37

27th August 2005, 18:13

With the only true competitor to LFS emerging (rfactor) within a few days, how will the lfs community react, it’s a good sim game and with no doubt will give LSF a run for it’s money, what I see as a challenge for both teams is a way to eradicate wreakers, too make a sim that corresponds to racing rules. A driver can only switch lanes once on the main strait for example.

Anyway let me know what you think, for any constructive criticism you should have played the multiplayer test for at least a 1:06 around the demo track (rfactor test).

Two great sims head too head.

Keep well

Ruckus37

RMachucaA

27th August 2005, 19:11

LFS has truer physics, ask the rfactor guys why we cant have a live suspension view like LFS has.... (shift-L)

Dygear

27th August 2005, 19:16

Well, it would seem that I can't play the game at all. As there coders have not thought about 64bit in any way shape or form. Where as I can play, and do play Live For Speed on my 64bit computer right now. I am very disappointed in rfactor as of now. They just don't get it. They just don't have the same charm as the Live For Speed devs. Live For Speed works on ALL platforms, not just Windows, but Linux too. And as I can see, it is not locked down to a single architecture. Not just 32bit, but 64bit aswell. Once rfactor gets to this level, then they can compeat with Live For Speed. As of now, they are just in the minor leagues.

R3DMAN

27th August 2005, 19:24

i think rfactor will be nice but LFS has alot more potential..

XCNuse

27th August 2005, 20:02

yep.. gotta agree with r3dman; rfactor looks like a really promising game; but since LFS is only a works in progress, its just got potential to look out for

but so far.. rfactor handles right, sounds really nice.. has some nice graphics, but some are a bit odd at same time

admkirk

27th August 2005, 20:17

What is this rfactor thingy? never heard about it. sounds boring.

gishuk

27th August 2005, 20:24

i dont see anything wrong with LFS enough to make it stop playing it in favour of something else

and i dunno but it will be hard pressed to have the same community,modability and dev interaction of LFS

sinbad

27th August 2005, 20:24

I never judge anything till I've played it. Everyone seems to have given rFactor 11 out of 10 already.

I'll give it a good chance, I hope it is better than LFS, better is progress. I don't like the gfx all that much, the surfaces are all too shiney for starters, and if the menus are the same as the mp demo then I already don't like those, the MP code and systems have to be a fair bit better than in the demo too (even the latest version) but as I said, I'll be judging the actual thing with total open-mindness and impartiality when I get it. I hope everyone does the same.

Silly

27th August 2005, 20:29

Well I did a few hundred laps in the MP demo. I like it, especially the sound. On the downside the physics engine was not nearly good enough to keep me thrilled for long because it's just very simplified, like an old muscle car, it's fine in straight line, but that's about it.

So I'm looking forward to the full game as the new full physics engine is supposedly pretty good. I want it to be good - I have been wishing for a *moddable* sim with very good physics for a while, but so far I haven't joined in with the 'are we there yet' crowd at RSC for lack of evidence. I want to see some nice long (not gimmicky or AI-only) vids of rF.

TBH, the ASS review sounded a bit like the reviewers received a whiff of meth everytime they depressed the accelerator. ;)

X-Ter

27th August 2005, 21:07

I think both LFS and rFactor deserves to be played. I will run LFS because of the great cars, the great tracks and the great multiplayer. I will also race rFactor because of the great cars, the great tracks and hopefully, the treat multiplayer. And even if rFactor doesn't have great tracks and great cars from the beginning, it is modable and so, in time, there will be great tracks and great cars.

Why chose one when you can have both?

tristancliffe

27th August 2005, 21:28

rFactor seems to be all hype at the moment, so we should reserve judgement until its out (it was officially delayed today I think, or yesterday, for another week).

However, I think we'll see the rFactor devs leave it behind in a short while, leaving it only to the community. This won't be happening with LFS for a while yet, as we get patches and extra features. Therefore I think LFS has more potential than rFactor on this basis.

Maybe I'll be wrong, but I'm NOT preordering rFactor, and I HAVE preordered S3.

Woz

27th August 2005, 22:06

I have not pre-ordered rFactor because the demo will not run due to the stupid protection they have where a date change results in the demo never running again. So I will wait for the results of the full release.

That said, the potential for mod teams is massive. The only ISI sim I have had before was F1C and I only got this for the mods. The mods will be the key to rFactor.

gunja

27th August 2005, 22:34

Maybe I'll be wrong, but I'm NOT preordering rFactor, and I HAVE preordered S3. But You ARE going to preorder any ISIMotor3 sim that might come allong in the future ;)

FunkedUp

28th August 2005, 00:30

I've just never cared for any of the ISI/Simbin stuff. Graphics look funny, sounds not quite right, odd FFB, weird bobbing motions, etc. I bought F1 2002, F1C, played the GTR mod and the GTR and GTL demos. All seems like the same game. Just can't get into it. I'll probably keep racing LFS and wait for the next big thing from Kaemmer (Papyrus founder)

RichardTowler

28th August 2005, 00:32

FunkedUp

28th August 2005, 00:36

I guess the community will start ranting and moaning that [INSERT NAME OF COMPETING SIM] sucks and it makes all the problems with [INSERT NAME OF CURRENT FORUM SIM] not important, an excuse if you want to call it that :) pretty much how the [INSERT NAME OF CURRENT FORUM SIM] reacts towards any other sim is to say [INSERT NAME OF CURRENT FORUM SIM] does this well, the other sim sucks, atleast thats what I've read on this forum when any other sim is mentioned :)

:)

RudiTurbo

28th August 2005, 01:07

I guess Rfactor will be a wannabe LFS
With a few more extras, because they have more developers, but LFS is work in progress and I BET in 5 years, noone will code the physics like Scawen has coded them.

Gunn

28th August 2005, 02:02

rFactor does not appeal to me at all from what I have played and seen. They seem to pitching to the modders mainly which means lots of cool modding fun coming up for many, but for racing and realistic physics I'll stick with the sim (LFS). I guess there would be a chance that I may buy rFactor, but I hardly need it since I have LFS, and it could never replace LFS. No competition at all there.

Gunn

28th August 2005, 02:27

I guess the community will start ranting and moaning that rfactor sucks and it makes all the problems with LFS not important, an excuse if you want to call it that :) pretty much how the LFS reacts towards any other sim is to say LFS does this well, the other sim sucks, atleast thats what I've read on this forum when any other sim is mentioned :)I know some people harp on about how the LFS commuity seems to discard other sims flippantly and easily, and this is somehow percieved as being narrow-minded or biased towards other possibilities. I can only speak for myself since I am one of those who appears to fit into this so-called "fanboy" category.

I have been playing racing games/sims for as long as anybody has and I have always enjoyed improvements in physics, FFB, and the technological advances in processing power and graphics that have evolved along the way. Each year a better title emerged but never quite hitting the mark for me. I purchased GPL a few days after it was released and my dreams had come true, this at least felt real.

I have continued to try different titles over the years since then and when LFS came along I finally found what I was looking for. It obviously had a long way to go but it was equally obvious where it was going. I have no problem or issue with being called biased. If and when another sim emerges that aims for the same goals that LFS is aiming for then I will be even happier than I am now, until then I can easily (and flippantly) dismiss any so-called contenders. I even enjoy it.

This is not "fanboyism", blind acceptance and defense of somthing without considering the alternatives, not at all. When someone gets off their bum and adopts a philosophy that aims for realism in the way the car behaves within the "physical" envinronment and focusing strongly on the racing element, rather than trying to wow people with content just so they fork over their cash, then they would threaten to become a rival to LFS in my mind.

rFactor seems very much to be promoting the modding side of their game and this is a great thing for a lot of people, I'm sure rFactor will be well-loved and long-lived. I'm not getting excited though, it just doesn't push the right buttons in me, it's simply not what I'm looking for.

Just remember that when someone says they don't like something, they are not saying "I don't like everybody who does like it". People take it so personally when something they like is insulted. People are satisfied by different things, it's just the way we are. I don't need to justify to others why LFS is my prefered title. If you are looking for the same things I am you probably feel the same. Are you biased or have you just found exactly what you have been looking for?

Vykos69

28th August 2005, 09:16

I guess the community will start ranting and moaning that rfactor sucks and it makes all the problems with LFS not important, an excuse if you want to call it that :) pretty much how the LFS reacts towards any other sim is to say LFS does this well, the other sim sucks, atleast thats what I've read on this forum when any other sim is mentioned :)

I think you see it wrong, Rich. The biggest difference in LFS is, that we know and accept the still not finished parts, bugs, some unrealistic things (oval-setups ;) ) etc. cause we know, we have an open ear on the dev-side and that things will change. Cause we for sure have the Sim with the best support ever, and the best contact from Devs to community. I have no problem with people criticising LFS; if they take into account, that their critics will be adressed and thought about deeply. I have a problem with ISI or GTR fanboyism, that say their game is perfect.
There are posts about wrong physics in LFS, with well written arguments, and they are adressed maturely, while a similar post in any ISI-based Simforum is flamed to death, just cause people think to know you (I) are (am) a LFS fanboy. That is annoying.

I wouldnt even flame Greger, knowing he likes GTR ;) :p

Best example threads:
GTR-Forum:
Q: I get CTD and 1fps-bug, will there be a patch?
A: Must be your problem, learn to setup your system right, GTR runs perfectly on my sys.

LFS-Forum:
Q: I get CTD when doing this and that.
A: What are ur sys spec? You tried this? can you check for errormessages? Post them here please, I (Scawen) will have a look into it.

God damn, scawen even coded patches cause one single person had a strange bug...
Get the idea?

BTT: I'll have a look at ISI, but honestly, I doubt it will have a huge online Life. There'll be some cool mods, and some cool small mod-only leagues, but you wont have a good overall basis, especially cause ISI goes the hard way of selling over web only. They overestimate there some stuff a lot. F1C was so succesful, cause it was F1 and still easy to buy in shops after a year or so for less money to get the mods. rF wont be in shops, will only reach a limited amount of people, especially cause the community is still really small.

tailing

28th August 2005, 10:12

rFactor does look like it will be quite good but I just can't see it tearing me away from LFS.
My understanding is that the demo won't be released untill after the full release which seems very strange and worries me just a little. It just doesn't make much sense and I wonder if there's some ulterior motive behind it. I don't expect there is but it is curious.
The tuning aspect of the game also worries me a touch, I would expect there to be some very strict server side class restrictions to provide fair online competition. If it comes down to just having to have all the upgrades to compete I feel that will be to it's detriment.

There's some quite strange anti-LFS sentiment around the place and I have to admit I wouldn't mind seeing rFactor fail just to stick it up some of these people. To be honest though I wish ISI luck and hope it does turn out to be good.

ysu

28th August 2005, 11:06

Hehe, sarsi
" I wouldn't mind seeing rFactor fail just to stick it up some of these people."
a classic :-)
I think it's doomed to fail to a certain extent.
why?
There's way too much hype around it, it simply cannot be flawless, that's near impossible. I think people will expect much more than they will get. But with no demo available, many will rush into buying it because of the extremely positive reviews...then they'll probably be midly annoyed.
I guess we'll see in a few weeks/months :-)

btw the arrogance of the fF fanbois seems to annoy me a little too...:-)

Fragmatic

28th August 2005, 11:11

ronzo

28th August 2005, 13:11

I'm just pissed that I can't race the FXR against the Howston!!

1st post!!! Man, I been lurking waaaay too long around here...

spankmeyer

28th August 2005, 23:19

ysu

28th August 2005, 23:23

You do sound pessimistic, spankmeyer.
Did you see the change from s1 to s2?
expect the same again, maybe more. :-)

Woz

29th August 2005, 01:15

I kind of like rFactor's feel. Actually... I like it alot. Planning to purchase it, no doubt.

Some of you sound so certain that LFS will continue to evolve for years to come. Personally... I find it hard to believe that there will be a big development coming after the release of S2 final. Patches are sure to come, though, but I will be surprised if the devs have motivation left to upgrade (or perhaps rewrite) the graphic, sound and physics engine to keep up with the competition in the future.

Sorry if I sound too pessimistic...

I think you will find the devs support LFS as long as we are willing to purchase the licences for the next release. The way I see it is that while LFS is viable they get to work at home with hours they want on a project they want to work on instead of being in the office working on something they might not like.

Rotary

29th August 2005, 08:49

I think you see it wrong, Rich. The biggest difference in LFS is, that we know and accept the still not finished parts, bugs, some unrealistic things (oval-setups ;) ) etc. cause we know, we have an open ear on the dev-side and that things will change. Cause we for sure have the Sim with the best support ever, and the best contact from Devs to community. I have no problem with people criticising LFS; if they take into account, that their critics will be adressed and thought about deeply. I have a problem with ISI or GTR fanboyism, that say their game is perfect.
There are posts about wrong physics in LFS, with well written arguments, and they are adressed maturely, while a similar post in any ISI-based Simforum is flamed to death, just cause people think to know you (I) are (am) a LFS fanboy. That is annoying.

I wouldnt even flame Greger, knowing he likes GTR ;) :p

Best example threads:
GTR-Forum:
Q: I get CTD and 1fps-bug, will there be a patch?
A: Must be your problem, learn to setup your system right, GTR runs perfectly on my sys.

LFS-Forum:
Q: I get CTD when doing this and that.
A: What are ur sys spec? You tried this? can you check for errormessages? Post them here please, I (Scawen) will have a look into it.

God damn, scawen even coded patches cause one single person had a strange bug...
Get the idea?

BTT: I'll have a look at ISI, but honestly, I doubt it will have a huge online Life. There'll be some cool mods, and some cool small mod-only leagues, but you wont have a good overall basis, especially cause ISI goes the hard way of selling over web only. They overestimate there some stuff a lot. F1C was so succesful, cause it was F1 and still easy to buy in shops after a year or so for less money to get the mods. rF wont be in shops, will only reach a limited amount of people, especially cause the community is still really small.

I was one of the people in that CTD/1FPS thread in the GTR forum... got into massive flame wars because I'm known as an LFSer. Fact is, I paid $80AUD for GTR and I was looking forward to it. I was very pissed off with GTR as I was getting the above and no-one was helping without blaming my system.. ffs, it's an obvious fault in the game if so many people get it, and if it was my system then how do I set it up correctly eh??

I don't believe in Simbins hype anymore either.

Anywho.... I liked the rFactor demo from way back, but I have this feeling that rFactor, after a month or so, will start collecting dust like my copy of GTR... I might try an updated demo and see how it goes, but LFS so far provides me with all my racing needs. I think I might wait for some decent mods as well :)

MagicFr

29th August 2005, 09:06

I tried rFactor last Saturday, it was really good actualy.
Graphics are really nice.
Sounds is way better than LFS.
Force Feedback is good.
Physics was good, tire physics even "seems" better than LFS. ( I KNOW LFS IS NOT FINISED :) )
The main problem , rFactor give you a feel of less freedom in the game than LFS.
Also, i had some GFX crash , GFX freeze i never had in LFS.
I couldnt really test the netcode, we where only 6 on the server i found, with 6 peoples, there were no lag at all. With 20 peeps, i dt know.
Again, the sound was really impressive when playing online :) Engine sound, brake disc squeal, transmission scream, rolling sound, gravel on chassis when driving on grass,etc... really immersive.
The fact that there is no Shilf-L or F9 function doesnt mean that the physics is weak... Actualy it is more real to not have it, where in earth can u see realtime suspensions and tire heating ? hmmm... you can have it on telemetry in pits, that's all.

When rFactor will be release, there will be a new demo. Be sure that i'll test it. And if it is better than LFS, well, that will be 2 good sim to play , instead of 1, that's all bonus for us :)

cheers,

Flycantbird

30th August 2005, 16:59

When someone gets off their bum and adopts a philosophy that aims for realism in the way the car behaves within the "physical" envinronment and focusing strongly on the racing element, rather than trying to wow people with content just so they fork over their cash, then they would threaten to become a rival to LFS in my mind.

I couldn't agree more. I've bought and played the majority of racing sims available before stumbling upon LFS.

It has what I want. When something comes along that has what I want and is even better, I'll switch immediatly. I just don't imagine that being in the near future.

ajp71

31st August 2005, 15:30

rFactor and GTL seem to have no feel to me, I even lost interest in the GTR demo, which had Spa and the Morgan, a combination I would love to race, but even with the pro physics it felt like I was completely disconnected from the car, I may as well have driven from the chase cam, I have no doubt that the ISI games are very realistic they just don't feel right.

LFS has more feel, S2 is much better than the S1 demo, but GPL and N2003 just felt pefect, credit to DK and Papy/F$rst/iRacing/whatever there called today they really did get the feel just perfect, I think LFS still suffers from to much screen information, you should be able to press shift + F and still get blue/yellow flags, also I would love to see a pitboard.

Cue-Ball

31st August 2005, 16:24

I think LFS still suffers from to much screen information, you should be able to press shift + F and still get blue/yellow flags, also I would love to see a pitboard.

I agree with you there. I'd like to see this as a server side option where clients are forced into in-car view and have no outside help like the map. I think eventually we'll see yellow flags being done by cornerworkers instead of the "yellow flag" text on screen.

ruckus37

31st August 2005, 20:31

Thanks all for the great responses, it looks like rfactor is about to be released, I will defiantly get it, but hay two great online racing sims must be better than one. Having a bad day on one just switch over to the other. But I think with the current modding capabilities of rfactor, we will see races being developed with special racing rules, forced gameplay modes (cockpit view) etc. long before lfs can offer these options. Hold on to your wheel guys it’s going to be a good race.

Cue-Ball

31st August 2005, 21:20

But I think with the current modding capabilities of rfactor, we will see races being developed with special racing rules, forced gameplay modes (cockpit view) etc. long before lfs can offer these options.

I hope you're wrong about this point. I really like LFS and would hate to have it left behind feature-wise compared to rFactor. I still haven't seen much of rFactor that would make me want to switch sims. The graphics, cars, interiors, etc leave much to be desired if you ask me. I hate the idea of mods though, and I think all of the customization will make having a level playing field much more difficult. I really like the idea of real-world tracks and cars though.

I guess time will tell how LFS and rFactor compare. Personally, I'll probably wait until there are some worthwhile mods for rFactor before I bother with it. But, it's not like buying it is a huge investment, so maybe I'll blow the $40 sooner than I plan to. :)

WillMcCaskill

31st August 2005, 22:33

Live For Speed works on ALL platforms

Can you use LFS on a mac? I use it on my windows computer, but i would love to be able to use it on my laptop also.

Gunn

31st August 2005, 22:38

Can you use LFS on a mac? I use it on my windows computer, but i would love to be able to use it on my laptop also.No you can't use it on a Mac. There aren't enough Mac users on the planet to warrant the labour involved to make a Mac version. I'm fairly sure there will never be a Mac version of LFS.

WillMcCaskill

31st August 2005, 22:47

No you can't use it on a Mac. There aren't enough Mac users on the planet to warrant the labour involved to make a Mac version. I'm fairly sure there will never be a Mac version of LFS.

I understand what you are saying, but Macs are becoming very popular now that there are cheap ones. Also, simulations typicly do very well on macs, look at X-Plane.

Isn't LFS already running on openGL? That would make porting it much easier.

I'm not trying to say that you are wrong, just that there may be a bigger market out there than you think, and that it may not be that ridiculous of a thought.

Cue-Ball

31st August 2005, 23:31

It's not worth the trouble to code for Mac when they'll be running Intel hardware in 2 years time anyway. Wait for the Intel Macs to come out, then see if LFS works on them. I'm going to bet that it does.

tristancliffe

31st August 2005, 23:32

I thought LFS was DirectX (8 iirc)

Gunn

31st August 2005, 23:42

I understand what you are saying, but Macs are becoming very popular now that there are cheap ones. Also, simulations typicly do very well on macs, look at X-Plane.

Isn't LFS already running on openGL? That would make porting it much easier.

I'm not trying to say that you are wrong, just that there may be a bigger market out there than you think, and that it may not be that ridiculous of a thought.I know what you are saying, it's just that I think Macs are basically going to become extinct. The reason Macs are getting cheaper is because people don't want them. I think also if Apple wish to attract gamers they need to stop making computers that look like they should have a Hello Kitty logo on the side. It is a bit sad really that Macs aren't as popular or as well supported as PCs, but that's the world we live in. The devs have never been really driven by the need to sell LFS to every possible gamer, and porting over to Mac would be perhaps too much work for too little return.

SpiderX

31st August 2005, 23:55

Well...just commited the sacrilege of geting rFACTOR...and i cant understand why people make so much hype saying its WAYYYY different from Demo version when from where i am standing it feels exactly the same thing.... it is a neat sim, im my point of view its strongest point over LFS besides the obvious sound (aldo i must say that on the open wheeler LFS sounds is better for me...the wind, the echos....nothing of this is in rFACTOR, on the other side theres a series of small sounds that we already saw in GTR and also GT Legends that are there and do give some better feeling.. but...still i think that the way LFS does it gives alot more feedback) ..... is the future MODS...and thats about it....

Everyone is all hyped up now because its new and so on....

My first comparision was the imediate and obvious Formula XR against the Formula trainer....well.... its WAAYYYY better the FOX, theres not even a comparision between these 2, the others i still cant judge because i havent tried them...just a bit the small one...the puntoish thing....

I cant stop this all the time sliding feeling....its weird....cant understand what it is........

Oh well.... in my Book LFS still is way better then this rFACTOR...at least the first encounter......

EDIT: Another thing that pisses me off in all ISI engines is the goddam stuttering from hell that happens for no aparent reason in a randomic way... i cant understand this..i dont know what version of DX LFS uses but i selected DX7 (PERFORMANCE....yeah right) and i still get stuttering..... same as GTR and GT Legends..... also...whats wrong with the perception of the size of a track with these guyz....everything fels so narrow.... Eric is indeed a genious at track making.....

ajp71

1st September 2005, 00:01

I hate the idea of mods though, and I think all of the customization will make having a level playing field much more difficult.

The server must have the car you race already loaded on it, and assuming the hdv and ini files are checked there shouldn't be an issue with people turning up with bigger engines and tires than they're suppose to.

If your talking about buying upgrades and new cars with credits you've earnt then I totally agree with you.

Cue-Ball

1st September 2005, 05:15

The server must have the car you race already loaded on it, and assuming the hdv and ini files are checked there shouldn't be an issue with people turning up with bigger engines and tires than they're suppose to.

If your talking about buying upgrades and new cars with credits you've earnt then I totally agree with you.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was indeed talking about upgrading the cars. I would LIKE to see mods such as totally new cars (60's muscle cars, off road trucks, etc) and real world tracks. I just don't like the thought of someone who has more time to play than I do constantly winning because he's got more credits. I like the fact that LFS is a totally even playing field. If you win it's because you can drive better and/or you can setup your car better, not because you have more credits or a bigger turbo. :thumbsdow