Different car classes

[cbsalkvist]

I don't know if there is a thread like this somewhere in this forum. At least I can't find it.
My suggestion is, how about making different categories to race in.
I mean
A stock car class ( None tuned engines)
A tuned car class (Mild or heavy modified engines)

Then just choose wich class u wan't to race.

Because there is 2 kind of people in this forum.
Those who want tuning and those who don't.

Then both sides would be happy. :thumb:

[lalathegreat]

i myself have suggested tunning before and most people seem to think it will make the game unfair is some way. i suggested the same different classes.
the argument for this is it gonna make it hard to just come online and find a game.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=5957&highlight=build+engine
here a link to a previous disccusion

[cbsalkvist]

Maybe I'm gonna get flamed, but those who don't like enginetuning need to cool down and see this thing from a different perspective. I have.
That is why I suggested different classes.
Then all those how like to just "tune" their suspention, gas, tire pressure and other stuff could select the stock class.
Those who like a little more race setup, could choose the racing class.
And online....can't see the problem. Select your class.

The anti-tuning people in this forum have an idea that it's all or nothing.
The world is not black or white. U can make choices...tuning or no tuning.

[AndroidXP]

What does engine tuning add to this sim? So every racer takes the "fastest" setting that is found out after a week? :shrug:

IMO adding engine tuning would be a waste of time for a feature that is cool for five minutes and then ends up as "just another setup option".

[lalathegreat]

too me it adds alot
First its adds alot more varierty to what can be done with LFS

Drag racing now as more of a point~even though i do it i am annoyed at cars reving down the track with the same engine makes no sence:shrug:.

Drifting~ becomes slightly more easier, sometimes i feel i want more power in certain areas of the power band

Racing~ i think this is where most benefit comes, it opens up a whole way to stategize a win. there would be many options u could to gain victory

to mee u need 3 things to win a race
1 good engine
2 good suspension
3 Good Driver

LFS emulates 2 & 3 but not 1



What does engine tuning add to this sim? So every racer takes the "fastest" setting that is found out after a week? :shrug:

IMO adding engine tuning would be a waste of time for a feature that is cool for five minutes and then ends up as "just another setup option".

U see this is the problem right here, even with current setups. Somepeople just refuses to learn how to make one. u have to be constantly inovating your setups and tryin different driving styles to get better. its dumb to get what works for someone else, and expect it to work for u.

some people think make setups for a given driving style, while i feel u change driving style for a given setup. i guess these sort of multiple setups and such only work when u got stiff competion.

[xaotik]

to mee u need 3 things to win a race
1 good engine
2 good suspension
3 Good Driver

LFS emulates 2 & 3 but not 1


Actually LFS simulates engine, suspension, (rudinemtary) aero and tyres and lets you try to do number 3. Because it's not tunable doesn't mean it isn't simulated.

[lalathegreat]

Actually LFS simulates engine, suspension, (rudinemtary) aero and tyres and lets you try to do number 3. Because it's not tunable doesn't mean it isn't simulated.

ok if u take it to such a low level, i am not sure because i havent ran across any documentation on the way LFS_engine actually works. But am guessing that powerbands are derived from the same values that LFSTweak uses. that would be a very primitive way of simulating a engine. its not bad because its serves it purpose in LFS current state. but its no way as complex the suspension or tires

EDIT
was just thinkig of another thing it adds. alot of people want a LX8 if this system in implemented that would not be a problem :). u can have serveral different classes with the same car.

[xaotik]

Yeah, I get where your coming from. What you are really asking for is modding capability - when you can mod the engine why stop at that? Mod the aero, mod the tyres, mod the suspension, edit the car models to reflect the changes... etc.

And since implementing half-baked modding in the form of just modding the engine is not the way Scawen seems to operate, then you'll get the full blown version of "mod everything" eventually.

However such modding is something that is "to come" because it's basically a whole different type of game. According to what I've read, the ability to trully mod cars like that will, possibly, be around after S3. Hang on. :)

[Primoz]

The only engine tuning i see reasonable is setting the richness of the mixture. Running rich, more power, colder engine but the fuel usage gets sky high. Running a less rich mixture helps the fuel economy but gives less hp and the engne is running hotter (at least that's what i read on this forum :) )

[lalathegreat]

The only engine tuning i see reasonable is setting the richness of the mixture. Running rich, more power, colder engine but the fuel usage gets sky high. Running a less rich mixture helps the fuel economy but gives less hp and the engne is running hotter (at least that's what i read on this forum :) )

thats generally what happens but not always. run too rich and u lose power and damage the engine. run to lean and loose power and damage engine

So u would need a engine damage simmulated i guess.

What you are really asking for is modding capability
What do u mean by
Modding
Tunning
Build your own Engine
what your definition of each
i wanna be on same page as you have a feeling everyone has a slightly different definition which makes having a discussion hard.

[cbsalkvist]

What you are really asking for is modding capability

According to what I've read, the ability to trully mod cars like that will, possibly, be around after S3. Hang on. :)

I am hangin on:shrug:
I suggest that they make some small enginetuning capabilities, like adjustable turbopresure
fuel mixture
Rev limitin
and so on

Yes I know...use lfstweak, but u can't use that online.

What I want is a chance to try it ingame/online.

I'm not talking about doing major changes yet.:smileypul
And why not make these changes.
If they made 2 classes then there wouldn't be a problem????

[Primoz]

like adjustable turbopresure

Alter the HP too much, not a good idea.

fuel mixture

Look my post above

Rev limitin
The only rev limitng LFS does is pit speed limiter (and now TC in BF1 and FZ). If you mean to prevent overreving, for now there s no engine damage (at least no effective one) and besides, take care of your foot :)

Yes I know...use lfstweak, but u can't use that online.

What I want is a chance to try it ingame/online.

It does work online.

I'm not talking about doing major changes yet.:smileypul
And why not make these changes.
If they made 2 classes then there wouldn't be a problem????

What kind of classes ae you talking about? If i understand correctly, you want to split the game into two parts, LFS standard edition (with all the usual cars) and LFS tuner edition (the usual cars, but more NFSU style). Can't see that happening, DON'T WANT that happening.

[lalathegreat]

hes not asking to to split the game into two different parts.
hes basically asking for user defined classes between the cars
Example
the GTI,XRT,XRG are not in the same class of car, the can't compete which each other competivily.

Now if u where able to lets stay add a turbo to the GTI or modify its performance to bring it into the same league as the XRT they would be able to compete.

its been stated before that some people just rather not have to worry about tunning a car, so he sugested that we have class system

Eg
Class S-Stock cars
Class T250- tune;with 250 horsepower limit

[cbsalkvist]

Alter the HP too much, not a good idea.

Why?? It its my problem to handle the ekstra hp. It's up to the driver how much he can handle

Look my post above

Yes I have read your post... It's more work to program than adjustable turbo pressure but it could be done

The only rev limitng LFS does is pit speed limiter (and now TC in BF1 and FZ). If you mean to prevent overreving, for now there s no engine damage (at least no effective one) and besides, take care of your foot :)

U misunderstood me. I meant that u could adjust the limiter not bush a button to not overrev. And engine damage could be added. Besides it hard to take care of my foot when i'm racing with keyboard

It does work online.

I didn't know..


What kind of classes ae you talking about? If i understand correctly, you want to split the game into two parts, LFS standard edition (with all the usual cars) and LFS tuner edition (the usual cars, but more NFSU style). Can't see that happening, DON'T WANT that happening.

I don't want to compare lfs with nfsu. All I'm saying is that if u create some tuning for the engine then u have to create 2 classes to race. Those with tuned engine and those without. Simple!?
This is just to make both sides happy. :nod:

[cbsalkvist]

hes not asking to to split the game into two different parts.
hes basically asking for user defined classes between the cars
Example
the GTI,XRT,XRG are not in the same class of car, the can't compete which each other competivily.

Now if u where able to lets stay add a turbo to the GTI or modify its performance to bring it into the same league as the XRT they would be able to compete.

its been stated before that some people just rather not have to worry about tunning a car, so he sugested that we have class system

Eg
Class S-Stock cars
Class T250- tune;with 250 horsepower limit

U hit the spot :thumb:

[Primoz]

The XRT already has a FWD turbo car that competes with it. It's called the FXO. Even the FXO is quite hard on the tyres, with the XFG having the same power and less weight, i can see it being a tyre muncher. Not a good idea IMHO.

About the adjustable boost, most of the drivers can handle the max boost so all will use the highest one. If you had a setting from 0,6 to 0.8 bar on the XRT with let say 0.01 increments, what would you use? 0.6? I know i wouldn't. best to leave this as it is, even now he cars just aren't balanced so well, that would unbalance them even more. Running higher boost (0.1 or 0.2 bar) doesn't have much negative sideeffects. Running more or less rich mixture has. That's the difference here. That's why mixture settings would work better and even those wouldn't work the best.

LFSTweak works online, you just have to make a server with edited cars and people that want to join must have exactly tuned cars to match. That's the 'prob' here (It's good actually, otherwise there would be people with 1500 bhp FXRs running with normal 500 bhp ones. Not fair, aye?).

[cbsalkvist]

The XRT already has a FWD turbo car that competes with it. It's called the FXO.



I know but maybe I want a little ekstra kick in the XRT or maybe add a turbo to lets say the...FZ50. That's my choice. Maybe I would munch som rubber, but I like that.

About the adjustable boost, most of the drivers can handle the max boost so all will use the highest one. If you had a setting from 0,6 to 0.8 bar on the XRT with let say 0.01 increments, what would you use? 0.6? I know i wouldn't. best to leave this as it is, even now he cars just aren't balanced so well, that would unbalance them even more. Running higher boost (0.1 or 0.2 bar) doesn't have much negative sideeffects. Running more or less rich mixture has. That's the difference here. That's why mixture settings would work better and even those wouldn't work the best.


I don't agree. What do u do in real life??? When u r tuning engines u normaly also upgrade brakes and suspention.
That's also alright be me if u don't change turbo pressure. I would because, well i like drifting
And I think it could be fun to race lets say a stock FZ50 against an tuned XR for instance. It's a matter of choice. That is why i saying make 2 classes.
One for those who race stock and those who dosn't. As I said before simple.

LFSTweak works online, you just have to make a server with edited cars and people that want to join must have exactly tuned cars to match. That's the 'prob' here (It's good actually, otherwise there would be people with 1500 bhp FXRs running with normal 500 bhp ones. Not fair, aye?).


No that's not fair, but if the engine tuning are integrated in to the game then u couldn't have an 1500 bhp FXR. No it would be more realistic. If ad some more pressure and a rich mixture and adjust cams, maybe max 450 bhp. That would be a drag setup because if u added engine damage it wouldn't make 10 laps. I think lfstweak is a fun program, but it isn't realistic.:shrug:

[Krane]

The XRT already has a FWD turbo car that competes with it. It's called the FXO. Not really. Fxo is faster in each of the configurations and tracks except drag race. Some of the tracks it has even 2-3 seconds advantage :pillepall :( :weeping: :tired: :chairs: :banghead: :grumpy: :x

[-DrftMstr-]

it has been discussed earlier... i think i also suggested some tuning packages... but yea doesnèt bother me anymore... like it or not, play LFS as it is

[Primoz]

Krane taht's true, but it is a competition'. It's MEANT to be in the same class.

cbsalkvist dunno, your ideas just don't seem so good to me... Too much NFSU-ey. In real life i don't tune cars, heck, i don't even drive (i'm 17, one year to go :) ). But yes, you wouldn't just tune the engine and leave everything stock (well, unless the rest was good enough). And somehow making another, 'tuned' class would seem to me as ripping apart the game. It just would, don't know why really... :shrug:

And tuning was suggested a lot, always unsuccesfully.It just wouldn't work. If you want turbo pressure, cam and mixture richness controled, someone will want suspension geomtry controlled (the shape of the arms, bolting points, etc.). Will then everyone design their own car? Sure, it works like this in the real life (except in Formula Ford or simmilar classes where they basically all drive the same car). But look at that. GTR for example, when Maseratis came out, they totaly owned every other car! If you have the same car for everybody (or purposely made class that has an intention of being even), the racing can be much closer. As i said, i just don't see this as a good idea...

[cbsalkvist]

Krane taht's true, but it is a competition'. It's MEANT to be in the same class...

What is the problem with making 2 classes. R u afraid your gonna race alone. As I see it, 50 % in this forum is against tuning. 50% the opposit.


If you want turbo pressure, cam and mixture richness controled, someone will want suspension geomtry controlled (the shape of the arms, bolting points, etc.). Will then everyone design their own car? Sure, it works like this in the real life (except in Formula Ford or simmilar classes where they basically all drive the same car). ..

No and that is why there should be 2 classes. Because u don't wanna race tuned cars.
I would like to. Try a little more with the cars in lfs.Take it up a notch. Nfsu 1 & 2 and sertanly not most wanted isn't realistic. GT4 isn't 100% realistic. LFS does a good job on that hand.
Just not on the engine side. Besides U can chance some of the suspension geometry.

Don't see the big problem in this.

[cbsalkvist]

it has been discussed earlier... i think i also suggested some tuning packages... but yea doesnèt bother me anymore... like it or not, play LFS as it is


I like LFS alot an play big time but if there no room for suggestion/changes then why make patches at all? Just play LFS with the bugs it has.
I see alot of suggestion in these threads. Many of them are quiet good.:razz:
Many of theme r about tuning...yes I have spent some time now reading.:scratchch
So something tells me alot of people would like to see this happening

[sgt.flippy]

I like the stock engine idea, especially if that would mean also no setups. I want to race against people with the same car as me, so it's all up to the driver, not how good your setup is. At this moment, I can do good laptimes, but I have no clue if I am fast, or my setup is. And maybe it's just my setup that makes me a second slower than other drivers... I don't know. Having all the same engine would be nice to actually test your driving skills. So actually I'm anti-tuning. But I know there are people who like doing this. I know nothing about it, so I wanna race skills.

[lalathegreat]

About the adjustable boost, most of the drivers can handle the max boost so all will use the highest one. If you had a setting from 0,6 to 0.8 bar on the XRT with let say 0.01 increments, what would you use? 0.6? I know i wouldn't. best to leave this as it is, even now he cars just aren't balanced so well, that would unbalance them even more. Running higher boost (0.1 or 0.2 bar) doesn't have much negative sideeffects. Running more or less rich mixture has. That's the difference here. That's why mixture settings would work better and even those wouldn't work the best.

lets say that turbos where ajustable in LFS. Boost preausre isnt the only varible when it comes to a turbo. the size of the turbo plays a big roll 2 factors are Turbo lag and maximum boost. finding a balance between the 2 can be a chanlenge
Eg
In order to get alot of Boost u need a big turbo, biger turbo takes longer to spool Result turbo lag. and if the turbo ever kicks in real hard while exiting a corner. well u can imagine.

Now lets say u get a smaller turbo it spools up faster but it won't beable to make alot of boost.

Running higher boost (0.1 or 0.2 bar) doesn't have much negative sideeffects.
Fuel comsumption u could build a setup engine wise and suspension which main goal was preservation, resulting in less time in the pits. could be quite competative in an endurance race

[l2acer1]

If im not mistaken there already like 5 different car classes?
Road Race TBO LRF GTR? why would u want just stock and tuning....how would u classify world records...? u no0bs who suggest this stuff think about yourself not the whole game in perspective....its a C-O-M-M-U-N-I-T-Y game not a I-W-A-N-T game....plus people that play the game probably dont know much about tuning engines....and yes u may say practice offline..but why would u want to waste time tuning your engine offline when all u have to do now is go and get a setup from a simple website..?...:nod:.My point being if u want tuning play NFS...If u want realism play LFS...im done here...sorry if this is rude...lol...:wave23d:

[Hankstar]

This topic just keeps coming back, like Jason Voorhees (perhaps the search function isn't as well advertised as it could be :D)!

From the (numerous) previous threads, it seems many people think that engine tuning/mods simply wouldn't add enough to the LFS experience to make it worth the effort of including the game. Some have even suggested it would marginalise or disadvantage people who don't have a technical mindset, i.e. those LFS players who just like to start LFS, get online, pick a car and be ready to race in a couple of minutes. I'm one of those people. Double-click, pick a setup, floor it.
I can think of no other race sim that includes modding and tuning (although there are many many games that do), and it's probably because (I assume, I'm no programmer) it would very complex to code and there would have to be whole lot more equations, information etc included (not to mention it's limited appeal)...
If it ever did end up in LFS then you'd have the inevitable complaints from tuners who would post saying "devs wtf I adusted part X to get result Y and all I got was result Z wtf devs". And this would be after the inevitable and lengthy discussion of what mod/tune options to actually include in the first place ... It's hard enough already to please people regarding the core elements of driving, e.g. driving physics and tyre behaviour...add complex tuning options and noone would ever be satisfied. I suppose you'd either have to have something realistic and therefore out of a lot of people's area of expertise, or something dumbed-down (Gran Turismo style: stage 4 turbo = $1000 and 1000hp or whatever) so that everyone could use it.
Simply, I play race sims so I can race people in cars that behave realistically and with a minimum of fuss. I play LFS because of the good physics and simplicity. I may not be the only one ...

[cbsalkvist]

If im not mistaken there already like 5 different car classes?
Road Race TBO LRF GTR? why would u want just stock and tuning....how would u classify world records...? u no0bs who suggest this stuff think about yourself not the whole game in perspective....its a C-O-M-M-U-N-I-T-Y game not a I-W-A-N-T game....plus people that play the game probably dont know much about tuning engines....and yes u may say practice offline..but why would u want to waste time tuning your engine offline when all u have to do now is go and get a setup from a simple website..?...:nod:.My point being if u want tuning play NFS...If u want realism play LFS...im done here...sorry if this is rude...lol...:wave23d:

Yes I think u are. U haven't read the threads above. LFS isn't 100% realistic unless tuning are added.
Yes there are different classes now but if u add a tuning class, people without engine knowledge don't have to play the tuning class.
And so what if u get a setup from a webside. Is that so bad. U could do the same now, right.
By the way u don't know anything about tuning engines, but u know what every suspension word means? If u keep the tuning simple then u don't have to be a F1 scientist.
I think u r the one not seeing the big perspective. U think about your self
by not allowing this game to evolve.

I see u joined July 2004 and still race demo. That tells me u r satisfied with those 3 cars. Fine keep racing them. But don't what we should do and not do. If u support this game so much, why not pay up and join the community. As far as I can see you r the thats IWANT GAME but I don't like to pay for the hole experience.

[cbsalkvist]

This topic just keeps coming back, like Jason Voorhees (perhaps the search function isn't as well advertised as it could be :D)!

From the (numerous) previous threads, it seems many people think that engine tuning/mods simply wouldn't add enough to the LFS experience to make it worth the effort of including the game. Some have even suggested it would marginalise or disadvantage people who don't have a technical mindset, i.e. those LFS players who just like to start LFS, get online, pick a car and be ready to race in a couple of minutes. I'm one of those people. Double-click, pick a setup, floor it.
I can think of no other race sim that includes modding and tuning (although there are many many games that do), and it's probably because (I assume, I'm no programmer) it would very complex to code and there would have to be whole lot more equations, information etc included (not to mention it's limited appeal)...
If it ever did end up in LFS then you'd have the inevitable complaints from tuners who would post saying "devs wtf I adusted part X to get result Y and all I got was result Z wtf devs". And this would be after the inevitable and lengthy discussion of what mod/tune options to actually include in the first place ... It's hard enough already to please people regarding the core elements of driving, e.g. driving physics and tyre behaviour...add complex tuning options and noone would ever be satisfied. I suppose you'd either have to have something realistic and therefore out of a lot of people's area of expertise, or something dumbed-down (Gran Turismo style: stage 4 turbo = $1000 and 1000hp or whatever) so that everyone could use it.
Simply, I play race sims so I can race people in cars that behave realistically and with a minimum of fuss. I play LFS because of the good physics and simplicity. I may not be the only one ...

U havn't read the topic have u? DIFFERENT CLASSES. That's because u anti-tuning people don't want to race tuned cars. That's fine by me. Don't no really don't. If u don't have the knowledge and think u can handle it. Alright.
Race in the stock class. Pick a track, a car, an setup and floor it.

Then leave the tuning class to the 50 % others who would like to race tuned cars......

Why do u always think that u r forced to race the tuning class. It's a matter of choice.
Oh and about the tuners complainen, it would be a this forum. If u don't wan't to read it. Don't

[Hankstar]

Gee sorry. I feel so ashamed. Here I was, mistakenly assuming I was politely (i.e. without nuking people I disagree with) participating in a discussion and bang! I get childishly flamed for having an opinion.
Seriously, chill out, grow up, drink de-caf, anything ...

Guess you didn't read my bit about tuning not being worth including AT ALL due to the difficulties that would be faced by the 3 (three!) guys who make this game and the inevitable bitching that would ensue with regard to what should go in and how it all should work. Oh well. I wasn't complaining about being forced to do anything, merely mentioning some potential problems. If you want to take offence, fine. It's not my blood pressure.
And FFS "you" has three letters.

I don't know where your 50% figure comes from. Go start a poll if you want to be sure. This forum loves a good poll.

Hey, and if you'd like to abuse me some more, do it via pm as I've lost my interest in this thread.
For some reason.

[lalathegreat]

I think people should read up on how engines work to give there opinoin validity.

[werewolf]

What does engine tuning add to this sim? So every racer takes the "fastest" setting that is found out after a week? :shrug:

IMO adding engine tuning would be a waste of time for a feature that is cool for five minutes and then ends up as "just another setup option".


If they would make an adjustment for the cam timing and the overlap of the cam profile , it would actually be a good improvement.
You could get a very long duration and long overlap to get more power in the high end for drag racing. And mild duration to get more power in the low and mid band , for rallycross or autocross racing.

I think this would be an awesome improvement to an already awesome game.

[Landric]

I would like to see some kind of Engine management system you would still have the same power in all the cars but could move that power around within the rev range.
RallyX you want midrange more than anything you should be short shifting to get the most out of the car not thrashing the nuts of it

Track is where you want all the power uptop i dont want a midrange, maybe a little for the take off but after im moving dont need it.

The use of a Power Commander on my bike is mucho fun, If i put to much power at the top doesnt want to stop spinning and lifting the front but put it in the mid and it will do 0-60 as fast as i can hang on

Anyhow the idea would be to get the best mix of top end power and midrange would be no power advantage like ive already said but it could seem like thier is (if you want the top 2k in the rev band to have all the power):D :pillepall

[tristancliffe]

I think people should read up on how engines work to give there opinoin validity.

Maybe you too.

I actually DO race prepare engines for competition work in real life. And I have nothing against racing tuned cars, as long as the tuned cars are equal. With modding in LFS that wouldn't be the case. I think I'd have a reasonable advantage over the majoirty of people (including some of the chavvy 'I luv NOS' types on this forum who THINK they understand), and yet I still don't want tuning in LFS.

Gunn has got it spot on. It will add absolutely nothing to LFS, and take away most of the good points. It would, in short, kill LFS.

[cbsalkvist]

Maybe you too.

I actually DO race prepare engines for competition work in real life. And I have nothing against racing tuned cars, as long as the tuned cars are equal. With modding in LFS that wouldn't be the case. I think I'd have a reasonable advantage over the majoirty of people (including some of the chavvy 'I luv NOS' types on this forum who THINK they understand), and yet I still don't want tuning in LFS.

Gunn has got it spot on. It will add absolutely nothing to LFS, and take away most of the good points. It would, in short, kill LFS.

Well that is why I suggested 2 classes to start with in this forum. I have also done my time with racing. And I havn't said that a want LFS to more like NFSU or GT4. Not at all.
What I'm saying is that for those who like to fidle with engine setups as well, should be able to race in a tuned class. Then it would even the score in that class.

For those who would like to fine tune their suspension and all the other stuff. Let them race in Stock. Can't really see why i should "kill" the game.
Would everybody just race tuned class? I don't really think so.

[l2acer1]

Yes I think u are. U haven't read the threads above. LFS isn't 100% realistic unless tuning are added.
Yes there are different classes now but if u add a tuning class, people without engine knowledge don't have to play the tuning class.
And so what if u get a setup from a webside. Is that so bad. U could do the same now, right.
By the way u don't know anything about tuning engines, but u know what every suspension word means? If u keep the tuning simple then u don't have to be a F1 scientist.
I think u r the one not seeing the big perspective. U think about your self
by not allowing this game to evolve.

I see u joined July 2004 and still race demo. That tells me u r satisfied with those 3 cars. Fine keep racing them. But don't what we should do and not do. If u support this game so much, why not pay up and join the community. As far as I can see you r the thats IWANT GAME but I don't like to pay for the hole experience.

yes i joined of july 04....lol.....its just another game i downloaded for past time....i will eventually buy it.....but saving money right now for a car not a game....got plenty of those to play online......and no im not 1 of those IWANT people...i dont suggest anything....w/e the devs do let em do it....:nod:

[lalathegreat]

Maybe you too.

I actually DO race prepare engines for competition work in real life. And I have nothing against racing tuned cars, as long as the tuned cars are equal. With modding in LFS that wouldn't be the case. I think I'd have a reasonable advantage over the majoirty of people (including some of the chavvy 'I luv NOS' types on this forum who THINK they understand), and yet I still don't want tuning in LFS.

Obvisusly it dosent apply to people who already know.

Just curious as to what kind of Race engines u prepare, could u elaborate on your experience.

How would it not be equal with tunned cars in LFS. the person who is holding the race has to state some retrictions. Example
I might hold a race and put the only retriction as Normal Tires only or No more than 350HP.

Alot of people just like to say it won't add anything which is like the worst reason ever. You can't deny Drag,Drifting would benefit from it.

am starting to think some people think if it goes into the game a surge of "Rice people" would start playing it.
or they fear they will become slow.

[Primoz]

hankstar really hit the nail on its head. Tristan said it nicely too. I still think it would divide the game into two parts. Oh, in this thread i realized that this offical forum can be a bad thing too. people suggest and want lot's of stuff, even if they are told (with arguments) that it wouldn't work. Just like if you'd go to say the official EA forum, where the NFS MW devs hang out (doesn't exist, i know) and start bugging them to improve the physics. Why? The game just wasn't meant for that. Same as LFS isn't meant for engine tuning. It's meant for games like GT4, NFSU/MW. Little kids play those games and brag around their friends 'ya, i've got a 10000 bhp skyline, beat that. I has 10 turbos and a 15 litre engine'. In LFS people can brag about their laptimes ut don't If they are asked they just tell their best time and let their racing do the talking. And that's where they are best.. beating other people in basicly same cars. You can get a lot of WR sets from inferno (heck, i'm a standard 'subscriber' for Flotch's FXR and at times UFR sets) and then you loose against those WR holding guys just because you are slower. Tunning would just mean all the people would run at the maximum limit (there HAS to be a limit, otherwise people would run 1500 bhp UF1000s) and then the cars would be the same.

[lalathegreat]

here HAS to be a limit, otherwise people would run 1500 bhp UF1000s) and then the cars would be the same

??? are u familiar with the concept of reality?
ok lets say for second a 1500 Hp car was possible it would run out of fuel and eat up the tires and prob won't win the race.

the point is not too have free for all cars, its too have a variety.
Limits should not be placed by the game it self but by who ever is holding the race or league.

U cannot say o but formula ford has these retriction; they use the same engine. This isnt a formula ford game.

i don't see how u guys can be against engine yet pro Suspension
Suspension setups are just as much performance as engines.

[Hankstar]

For the record, a lot of people have actually suggested that the road cars shouldn't be as adjustable as they are and I agree with that. LFS road cars should have some adjustability (they never drive on actual roads after all), but the options available right now are just a tad excessive imho.

As for the engine mod argument, I'll simply say leave it up to the devs to decide if it's worth including ... btw has anyone actually sought their input on this? It would seem more logical than asking the community as the threads about engine mods/tuning usually go the way of the dodo (which gives some indication of how popular the idea is, imho), and to hear something either way from them would perhaps bring closure to the topic.

[lalathegreat]

For the record, a lot of people have actually suggested that the road cars shouldn't be as adjustable as they are and I agree with that. LFS road cars should have some adjustability (they never drive on actual roads after all), but the options available right now are just a tad excessive imho.

There is no reason why the shoulnt be ajustable

[Hankstar]

LFS road cars should have some adjustability (they never drive on actual roads after all), but the options available right now are just a tad excessive imho.

..

[lalathegreat]

it would be nice to know in what areas?

[Viper93]

For the record, a lot of people have actually suggested that the road cars shouldn't be as adjustable as they are and I agree with that. LFS road cars should have some adjustability (they never drive on actual roads after all), but the options available right now are just a tad excessive imho.


For me I would have all these changable in my driving car when I race it. The big reason why people don't and leagues don't is because of costs. If it was cheap people would do it to a normal car I think.

[Hankstar]

All the areas of adjustability in the road cars are fine as far as I'm concerned, it's the _level_ of adjustability which doesn't ring all that true. They have nearly all the same ranges as the FO and GTR cars and I just think they should be a little less tweakable. For instance I don't know of any RL UF1 equivalent that has fully adjustable anything, let alone LSDs and racing gearboxes etc. Except perhaps my dad's old Minis ... the radios all had a volume knob...

I'd still like to be able to adjust the suspension and transmission and other things in the road cars, but to be able to do it in the same ranges as a GTR seems a bit OTT. If the road cars are to be as tweakable as the race cars, why continue with the illusion that they're road cars? You may as well just attach wings and let them use slicks..

However, that's simply my opinion (valid or not, as it may be). I don't expect that the devs will roll back any setup parameters on the road cars. As for tuning, their opinions on that will remain a mystery until someone asks them..

[Gabkicks]

IMO adding engine tuning would be a waste of time for a feature that is cool for five minutes and then ends up as "just another setup option".

this is pretty much why :p because there's an "optimum" set for each track so most people would end up using the optimum settings anyways. so whats the pt?:shrug:

[lalathegreat]

this is pretty much why :p because there's an "optimum" set for each track so most people would end up using the optimum settings anyways. so whats the pt?:shrug:
where are u getting that
there isnt!!!!!!!!! its no different thatn suspension setups in that manner

[Gabkicks]

i mean some guys were talking about adding engine tuning... ok?:pillepall it would just be one extra unnneeeded step.

[lalathegreat]

i meant what is the logic that i am going to run the same setup as everyone else?

[Gabkicks]

not exactly the same... but there are optimum setups for competing at the higher levels. driver preference plays a bit of a part for things like suspenion and gear ratios... but when it comes to things like enging performance... there are optimum settings. even with suspension for the most part there are optimum settings. you wont see any of the higher level racers running drasticly different setups.

[cbsalkvist]

For the record, a lot of people have actually suggested that the road cars shouldn't be as adjustable as they are and I agree with that. LFS road cars should have some adjustability (they never drive on actual roads after all), but the options available right now are just a tad excessive imho.

As for the engine mod argument, I'll simply say leave it up to the devs to decide if it's worth including ... btw has anyone actually sought their input on this? It would seem more logical than asking the community as the threads about engine mods/tuning usually go the way of the dodo (which gives some indication of how popular the idea is, imho), and to hear something either way from them would perhaps bring closure to the topic.

You have a point.
Is the game should be more realistic then road cars shouldn't be as adjustable as they are now. The only way you could fine tune your supension like you do in lfs is to buy an expensive racing supspension.
And the same with gear setup.

I just guess that the devs, reads some of the topics/threads and yes they will in the end program what they want.
I'm just suggesting.... It is not a demand, like: "If You don't program this in to the game I not playing it anymore."
I don't think they would care about that.

[cbsalkvist]

hankstar really hit the nail on its head. Tristan said it nicely too. I still think it would divide the game into two parts. Oh, in this thread i realized that this offical forum can be a bad thing too. people suggest and want lot's of stuff, even if they are told (with arguments) that it wouldn't work. Just like if you'd go to say the official EA forum, where the NFS MW devs hang out (doesn't exist, i know) and start bugging them to improve the physics. Why? The game just wasn't meant for that. Same as LFS isn't meant for engine tuning. It's meant for games like GT4, NFSU/MW. Little kids play those games and brag around their friends 'ya, i've got a 10000 bhp skyline, beat that. I has 10 turbos and a 15 litre engine'. In LFS people can brag about their laptimes ut don't If they are asked they just tell their best time and let their racing do the talking. And that's where they are best.. beating other people in basicly same cars. You can get a lot of WR sets from inferno (heck, i'm a standard 'subscriber' for Flotch's FXR and at times UFR sets) and then you loose against those WR holding guys just because you are slower. Tunning would just mean all the people would run at the maximum limit (there HAS to be a limit, otherwise people would run 1500 bhp UF1000s) and then the cars would be the same.

Have you ever seen a mini with 1500 bhp. I haven't.:pillepall Thoug I suggested a tuned class I didn't mean it to be unrealistic.
I still can't see the big issue on introducing another class to the game.