Shift S after crash!

[richy]

Hi :D Please keep this topic flame free :razz:

I have been thinking about this, and still rather undecided, i figure i would bring it up here and see what everyone else thinks.

ok first point is, I know that in oval racing that shift S as soon as you crash is really important due to the speeds and close racing that goes on, people are doing hotlaps non stop and interuptions are a real pain.

ive seen people doing this on regular race tracks though, but personally i dont like to shift S as soon as im on the grass or something? :shrug: i like to make the most out of the sim and if my car goes off track and into the gravel, i like to stick my hazards on then watch the rest of the race. i dont mean i sit in the track with my hazards on :pillepall i mean like, if i crash, i like to get off the track and park up like real racing.

also when i see a guy lose control infront of me and im trying to take avoiding action he Shift S and disappears. i think, damn mate you didnt have to Shift S, thats just racing! ... now im pretty sure that theres some guys out there who think "why the hell didnt you shift S" in that same situation.

sometimes you just have to understand that if youre following close behind someone who makes a mistake that no matter what happens an accident is on the cards, there isnt enough stopping distance or time to react, but sometimes its fun to just play out those moments in racing where it goes wrong, i love avoiding things on the track or waiting for that moment when the guy makes a mistake and i can slip by him or get caught up in the mahem! i dont wanna see the guy insta-pit though :shrug:

discuss? or totally boring ? :razz:

[Blowtus]

I agree, I've seen people flaming folk for not shift essing straight away... seems stupid to me. Though I can sort of understand, as the current race marshals really are dopey bastards ;)

[detail]

I think, along with "No join during a race" there can be an option "no escape during a race", which would mean no Shift-S outside of pits, no going to spectators when driving. :)

[Vykos69]

I think, along with "No join during a race" there can be an option "no escape during a race", which would mean no Shift-S outside of pits, no going to spectators when driving. :)No, cant. Cause this could be even more misused than not join during race, and people who have to go cant leave etc. Typical thing: You can keep people from entering a club or anything else, but there is no right in the world to keep them from leaving (OK, except CSI comes, cause there's murder :P ).

On Topic: If you hate Shift-S, go join a league, there Shift-S or going Spec is usually not allowed during races.

[wollschaf]

Disallowing Shift-S and even resetting the car during a race would be neat and indeed realistic. Wreckers should have a harder time then ;)

A problem could be if a completely demolished car stays on the track and isn't able to move by itself. So perhaps an option could be implemented to set a timeout, a "pit after n seconds"-button. n as an adjustable value, of course.

[farcar]

perhaps an option could be implemented to set a timeout, a "pit after n seconds"-button. n as an adjustable value, of course.
.. or pehaps if a car comes to rest on the track after a crash, it stays there for a little while, then gets dragged off up against the nearest (safe) wall. Kinda like simulatin track marshalls arriving and moving the wreck. You wouln't need any animations the car would just start slowly moving for a while.

Some problems with my idea:
It's hard to damage your car to the point where you can't move it.
It would be a b1tch to write 'wreck dragging' code for the SO tracks.
:schwitz:

[Astro [ BJRL ]]

Not to mention that Shift+S have lower priority over players joining, it seems, and if I let go of wheel to press Shift+S and nothing happens, I'm worse off because I let go of evrything.

[richy]

ok well heres my idea for that stuck car thing...

change the reset to put the car at the side of the track. so many times ive reset or someone else has reset and caused a crash. theres nowt wrong with using reset if youre on your roof or the car is disabled, but currently it puts you in a weird place.

[Bramski]

I've noticed something very interesting on some of the LFS servers. The guys who have "BLUE FLAG YIELD TO ME!!!" hotkeyed to one of the F keys, are the same guys who will ignore yellow flags and flame the shit outta people for crashing and not instantly shift-s'ing.

I yield to blue flags every time at the first sensible opportunity, but I also act sensibly when I see a yellow flag and it's gotten me out of a lot of trouble, especially on circuits like South City. I see the yellow flag coming up and I slow down only to see about 4 guys plough straight through expecting the crashee to shift-s instantly and it's carnage when they realise that theres a car in the middle of the chicane causing a 5 car pile up, leaving me to weave gently through the chaos and carry on.

I do agree that people should use shift-s sensibly and considerately though, but fellow racers should also heed the yellow warning flags too.

[Blowtus]

yellow flags are pretty useless at the moment. If you're trying to be competitive the best you can do is just be ready to avoid any drama and not pull any crazy moves.

[TagForce]

yellow flags are pretty useless at the moment. If you're trying to be competitive the best you can do is just be ready to avoid any drama and not pull any crazy moves.

If they are useless now, they'll stay useless forever... They serve the purpose of telling you you're approaching a problem zone and should take precautions not to run into trouble.

As for the shift-s thing... I HATE it, even on the ovals... It takes away from the reality of racing (just as the oval 'no passing on the outside' rule, wtf are we doing? Racing or parading?)
You spin out, you let the car come to a complete stop, and you wait till the track is clear to either move on or press shift-s... Following cars see the Yellow flag warning, and either go around you, or hit you, in which case it is their own fault, not yours.

[Jakg]

I yield to blue flags every time at the first sensible opportunity, but I also act sensibly when I see a yellow flag and it's gotten me out of a lot of trouble, especially on circuits like South City. I see the yellow flag coming up and I slow down only to see about 4 guys plough straight through expecting the crashee to shift-s instantly and it's carnage when they realise that theres a car in the middle of the chicane causing a 5 car pile up, leaving me to weave gently through the chaos and carry on.whenever i see a yellow flag i immediately look at the minimap to see where the stationary car is, then i geuss (nice an technical i am!) how he has crashed by imagining the corner, and by that time i can geuss where he is, meaning i know how to avoid him!
You spin out, you let the car come to a complete stop, and you wait till the track is clear to either move on or press shift-s... Following cars see the Yellow flag warning, and either go around you, or hit you, in which case it is their own fault, not yours.i hate it when i am coming up on a car in the middle of the road, and its stationary, then as i try to drive around them, the drive out infront on me, its really quite annoying!

[SKurjz]

Well, I just started LFS and I find Shift+S a godsend.

I can drive... but while I am learning the tracks and cars I make mistakes, and my first priority at the moment is not to p anyone off. If I have bent the car (noticeably) I shift+s immediately. If I am blocking the track from a spin or what have you and traffic is coming fast I get outta the way(shift+s)

On public servers shift+s is fine, insisting people use it isn't... accept for the roundy rounds where it does make sense.

[Hyperactive]

As to the topic: Shift-S is not for simulation. There are some tough places on some tracks where a spin can cause major accidents, but I still say that it is never the spinner's fault. Just more finesse and care... Yellow flag should be = slow down. Maybe one reason for not obeying yeallow flags is that there is no punishment for not obeying it :shrug:

Sometimes it just isn't anyone's fault. Some accidents are unavoidable. Crashing is part of racing, though it should be kept minimal and never intentional :)

[joen]

Shift-S doesn't exit in real life so I don't use it often. If I'm in a big crash and there's no chance I can get around the track reasonably well I do use it though. It also matters how far from the pits I am.
I try to get myself out of the way immediately though. When I've spun in the middle of the track and my car is not badly damaged I immediately check if there are cars around me. If they are quite close I get out of the way fast by taking the grass or something (this depends on the situation though, only if i think I can get out of the way safely and in time). If the gap is a bit bigger I find it best to stay where I am so the drivers behind me can anticipate getting around me.
People spin in real life as well and it's part of racing to deal with it imo.
There's always a lot of bitching about people not respecting the blue flag, but imo a lot of people don't respect the yellow flag as well. If there's yellow, you should take precautionary actions like lifting the gas. But ofcourse that will ruin people's hotlaps :pillepall Racing is not hotlapping.
But the most important thing is, whether you shift-s or get out of the way, do it fast!
I was racing on Blackwood the other day, and a guy spun on the hill before start/finish. I came up about two seconds behind him, taking it easy because there was yellow. He didn't move but I could get around easily by deviating from my line a bit. Then suddenly he makes the decision to move on, completely taking me out by hitting me in the side. Then he does shift-s...
Now that's stupid:schwitz:

[Dupson]

I love Shift S even tho its not realistic, shift r is unrealistic as well especially after one lap.


Anyway i find avoiding other cars a great fun sometimes but i prefer shift s command:).

[WGooden]

The yellow flag isn't useless in the game, it's just like it is in real life. People don't want to slow down to a crawl, usually they just maintain their normal speed when a corner yellow comes out, which isn't always safe. Atleast you know to expect a slow or stopped car. Maybe there should be a penalty if you pass under yellow?

[Renku]

Maybe there should be a penalty if you pass under yellow?YES!!!

[DownShift]

ya in toca 3 if you pass under yellow you get docked 5 sec on top of what ever time you get lol i think we need this.

EDIT: but now that i think about it... if the guy in 1st slams on his brakes in yellow on a big stright than he can get the guy in 2nd 5 sec added to what ever time he had so now he will win even if 2nd passes him lol

[Cam71]

Personally, I don't use Shift-S if at all possible. If there's an incident that I'm involved in, I'll make sure I'm out of the way of other cars first. Then I'll get back on the track only once it safe to do so. I'll then head back to the pits for repairs, if need be, staying out of everyone's way.

The reason I always do this is because, a lot of the time, most people in a pickup race will crash at some point and use Shift-S. That leaves me with a lot of podiums because, aside from the leaders, I'm the only one to not use Shift-S. :shrug:

You're never going to be able to prevent racers from quitting when they want. They just have to shut off the computer, or unplug their internet, or whatever.

[duke_toaster]

ya in toca 3 if you pass under yellow you get docked 5 sec on top of what ever time you get lol i think we need this.

EDIT: but now that i think about it... if the guy in 1st slams on his brakes in yellow on a big stright than he can get the guy in 2nd 5 sec added to what ever time he had so now he will win even if 2nd passes him lol

The only time TOCA 3 used yellows (single player) is when I cause something by accident:really:

And it throws a yellow if you spin where there is no-one else i.e. they are all at least 20 secs behind.

[Mikkomattic]

You're never going to be able to prevent racers from quitting when they want. They just have to shut off the computer, or unplug their internet, or whatever.
- One (scavier) can prevent their car from teleporting off the track at the first sign of crashing. And even if they literally leave themselves, the car could remain on track until this setable time limit is fulfilled.

[TFalke55]

I think there should be something different to other games, cause LFS is different. The most realistic way is having a freeze time of a wreak. So when the car have got a specific demage, you can't go on driving. You can go to pits and make your setup for the next round. But this single race, you can't rejoin te race (may make it able to change it in the serversettings) The freeze time should be a time where the wreack is still on track e.g. 1 minute. Maybe a bot can take the part of the pace car for one or two laps (on longer tracks there should be one on shorter ones 2). Nobody is allowed to overtake, but you have only to get into the right positions at restart. If there wasn't a pitstop, the one who got in a better position at restart have gets a DT. Nobody is allowed to overtake the Pace car, if somebody overtake it, he should get a DT or a Stop & Go. The Laps under Pace Car should be setable, so there are server where the Pace Car laps count to the race (like in the F1) and other servers where they dosen't count (like in the WTCC).

Sry... that i dreamed a little bit, but when i racing against my friends on an own server in there is a pace car, me or the host. and it works pretty well. OK some times with teenage foolness.

(sounds it silly to you? :pillepall )

[Blackout]

If you dont cause a serious crash because your mistake and prevent it by teleport you are never going to learn.

[birder]

What gets me is that I start a race with 20 others (with me in my normal place at the back) i dont pass anyone and after 3 laps of the 5, i am in 3rd as all the others have used the "beam me up scotty button" on their cars to get to the pits by magic. And now they return on track a lap down but force me off passing me again

or

For once i get a storming start and get up to 2nd watching the mayhem behind me. Then votes to restart flash up and whoosh i have my great start taken away. WTF is that all about.

Many drivers shift-s because they didnt get a good start or have had an off in T1 but then cannot be bothered to try to catch up, yet in a real race this is not possible.

Remember the old saying: To finish first you, first have to finish.

If a car has an off it should get back on track and then go back to the pits or stop where it is until the race is over even if the driver leaves the server.

As to the yellow flag, if this is a real sim rather than a game we should use normal flag rules including a black flag to ban someone.

Last week i did 7 laps on AS4 and a BF1 was still standing on the grid where it was at the start, it was strange to see how many people hit it in the air on the last lap as they crossed the finish line.

Oh, please dis-regard all I have said as the only 1st places i have to my name are when all the others Shift-s and i was the only one who finished all the laps as per a real race

[joen]

There was this guy in a FOX race on SO classic some time ago, he left his car standing at the exit of the narrow chicane for the whole race.
When he finally answered to all the people yelling to get his car out of the way he said he got a telephone call. He got upset at everybody, because "for sure he couldn't just let the phone ring" :pillepall

[tinvek]

its time for the all pupose phrase again :)

common sense please

if you crash, spin etc and are either out of way or have time to move before anyone comes then carry on

if your on racing line and someone is close behind then do them a favour and shift s, after all you'd like them to do it for you

agree with an earlier post though, its amazing how many times you can get caught up in a first corner incident, straighten up and carry on last eyt after 10 laps be second or even first purely because everyone else pits when they have a crash. good news for me but it makes you wonder why more people dont carry on after a bump as it takes a fair amount of damage to make a car undrivable

[Becky Rose]

I use shift-s at SO Classic chicane without a second thought. I dont think I get out of my pram too much when other drivers dont, but on that corner, I wish they would...

I would like shift-s/reset etc to be disbleable at the server side.

[joen]

its time for the all pupose phrase again :)

if your on racing line and someone is close behind then do them a favour and shift s, after all you'd like them to do it for you

I don't agree with that. When I'm close behind another driver and he makes a mistake I will try to get around him. If that doesn't work, well... then it doesn't. This happens in real racing and so it happens in LFS world. I will never ever get pissed on the other guy just because he makes a mistake and accidentally takes me with him or whatever. That's racing. So I don't expect them to shift-s and I will not do that either. Part of racing is excepting that shit happens sometimes and sometimes noone is to blame.

Imagine this: you're on lap 18 of a 20 lap race, and you're battling for first with the other guy, the rest of the field seconds behind. Should the guy in front of you just shift-s if he spins on the line, thereby completely ruining his race since he can still move on and finish second or third? I don't think that's reasonable.

Although I make exceptions for certain tracks. Yes, like the chicane in SO classic, I will get out of there as soon as possible even if I have to shift-s.

[tinvek]

actually i probably should have been a bit more specific, what i intended to mean was if your on racing line and theres no where for people to go without going off the course themselves, obvious place is the aforementioned chicane or, and this one really "upsets" me even though its not strictly on racing line, is when someone manages to end up sideways across pit exit road, between barriers at so city or blackwood

[hardcoreobscure]

I would like shift-s/reset etc to be disbleable at the server side.

This seems to me the most sensible option, people will always have different points of view, and if u dont like Shift-S, go in a server with it disabled.

Although there could be problems with people limping back to pits at 1mph, this could be solved with simple engine damage, if you ram the front end of your car too hard, your engine becomes too damaged and cuts out? then we wont see people driving with bonnets smashed back to behind the front wheels :shrug:

[shim]

i dont shift - S when i crash.. due to that is racing.. if i crash or someone else in front of me crashes, and it there is a multicar pile up.. that is racing..

[tinvek]

thinking about it i dont have problem with people im racing with its the new drivers learnign cars / tracks and being 2 mins off pace that are infuriating when they sit there or even worse try to rejoin and clip you

[mrodgers]

I have two thoughts and opinions on the shift-s topic. They are different depending on the type of race you are in.

First, during the week, I like quick and short 5 lappers. I log on for maybe 2 hours and the 5 lappers allow me to quickly be racing and have many of them in the short time I have. In this situation, I feel that shift-S is a must if you have a bad wreck. You're not going to limp back to the pits, fix the car, and get back out to battle and have a good finish. Why ruin it for someone coming up fast as you are spun out and/or badly damaged when there's going to be another race in 5 more minutes?

The second situation is, of course, longer races, organized, and league racing. I don't like to see folks shift-S in these races as they are not just quick-get-going-and-have-a-bit-of-fun racing. This is where the realism comes in. Wrecks and spun cars are a part of racing. If I spin in a long/league race, I'll either just sit tight if the cars are close together so I don't surprise anyone with my moves, or if close to the side, back up to get a bit out of the way until it is clear for me to recover. Especially in league racing where it tends to be an hour or more long.

In NAL at AS Historic reverse, I was wrecked and very badly damaged. Of course, I did not want to just quit as it was a league race, and of course as luck would have it, it was right at pit exit! I ended up limping around the track, very badly damaged and very difficult to control. As I saw the pack coming to lap me, I pulled off and continued on my way in the grass well away from the race. Eventually I made it back to the pits losing I think 3 laps to the field. But, I didn't quit, it was league. Had to finish, even if it was a terrible finish.

Was reset mentioned here? As for reset, I don't think it should even be an option. Nothing is worse than obeying the yellow, seeing a car spun, cautiously avoiding it, just to have him reset right on top of you. NEVER EVER reset when you spin when involved in a race. At least if you make the mistake of trying to recover when you should just sit tight, other's can get warning of it by possibly seeing and interpreting your intentions. But reset is just instantaneous and there is no warning to other racers coming up behind.