a little short changed

[Tony01Ball01]

Hello People.

I'm aware we as Gamers, simmers - whatever, now fully expect to buy a product that is either incomplete, or full of bugs (same thing). It doesn't and couldn't happen with any other product I can think of. Can you imagine buying a new car that was broke, or incomplete, on the understanding the manufacturer may get around to fixing it in the future.

As I mentioned, this is with regards all gaming developers, no sooner have we got back from the shop with our CD / DVD and we are looking on the net for patches.

With LFS it's a little different, as we are told from the onset this is a work in progress, and as such, you are asked to pay for the privalege to be a Beta tester. I can imagine the LFS meeting at the time, "do you think they'll pay", "of course, they'll be queing to pay for unfinished software, they do it all the time".

I bought LFS from what I had read regarding the physics, and there is no doubt they are good, but for $42 then there needs to be a lot more.

I have just drove a car into another car. Not on purpose, but Hey. not a scratch. Apparently thats what happens, people all over the world are driving cars, into other cars, with no damage what so ever. Those of us out there who believe there would be damage on a catatrosphic level, are completely wrong. The physics in LFS say so.

Then there is the AI. In the world of LFS. It's normal to stick to the racing line and it doesn't matter what is in front, because your going to barge them out the way anyway. The developer should be more clear that this is a multi-player sim only. And that AI is included only for a laugh, and shouldn't be taken seriously.

We the silly shopper - habe waited long enough now for this to develope into a "proper" package, I say that as we have clearly paid proper package money.

Let us not forget, we do not even have the benefit of a CD, jewel case, printed manual - nothing.

One more thing, the installation / upgrade procedure is pathetic. As the developer is keen to charge developer package style money, they should be prepared as a minimum, to provide a good quality installer / updater. Right clicking on zip files is for freeware only.

Maybe I've had a bad day, and that is reflected above - but no, they are genuine issues I've raised, and warrant a fair / sensible response.

[tristancliffe]

The simple fact is you don't 'get' LFS.

Cars DO get damaged in LFS, but it's a relatively early damage model that is missing key features that WILL be added.
LFS is sold as an online sim. It's called "Live For Speed - Online Racing Simulator". Clear as day on the homepage.

Who needs a CD - online retailing is the future, you'd better get used to it. See Steam as an example.
You can buy a printed manual, made by helpful members of the community.

Why is the installation pathetic? Just because other games add files all over the place, add needless entries into the registry, and pollute your PC doesn't mean LFS has to.

You have to understand that LFS is coded by one person, with assistance in modelling and websites from two other full-time people. Things can't happen overnight. Scavier isn't doing this 'for the money' like pretty much any other title, they're doing it for the love of it with the added bonus of money. Look at netKar. Kunos, the main programmer, has openly admitted netKar will only continue if they make enough money to bother.

Once you start to understand what is is you actually paid for (which is made clear, to me at least, on LFS.net), and when/why/how it is done then you'll start to realise what a great project it is, and what fun it is to be involved with it as it develops and matures. Writing one negative post on the forum clearly shows you aren't 'part of the community' in the usual sense. Might I suggest you stick around, read up on LFS, learn a thing or two in the process, and start to understand it before senseless bashing. The only point you've brought up that has any value as far as I can see is the AI, and Scawen has already stated that before S2 becomes 'final' we will see AI updates amonst other things, some of which will be 'boring' and some of which, like the Sauber, be exciting and surprising. It's not just a game ;)

[BuddhaBing]

Those are valid criticisms but you seem to be taking a 'glass half empty' approach. If you're not able to enjoy LFS in its current state my suggestion would be to play something else until LFS is in a state more to your liking. Life's too short to get upset by things that are meant to be a pleasant diversion.

[danowat]

Ok, lets try and be subjective here, because no doubt the fanboys will be along soon.

Physics, while they are not a perfect representation of real world physics, they are as close as we can get, for a race sim, LFS does physics perfectly well.

AI, yes, the AI is extremely poor, I have said it a million times, untill the AI is up to scratch it should be removed, as it is now they serve no purpose at all.

This IS a proper package, the Alpha status belies its true quality, I can name you race sims out the ying-yang that are way, way more incomplete, that are fulll V1.0 releases (heck even V2,3,4 whatever).

I for one applaud the installation routine, its a clean, light routine that doesnt need any bulky uneeded installers, registery entries etc etc, I hope it contiues to be this way.

I emplore you to look past what you seem to deem as shortcomings, and delve into the meat and potatoes of LFS, online RACING, and if after you have driven a few miles more miles (you have only driven just over 200),you still come to the same conclusions I'll give you the $42 out of my own pocket.

Bottomline, you will NOT find a better online race sim PERIOD.

Dan,

[Vain]

Actually I don't agree in a single matter in the above post. No, I don't think so. Let's do it step-by-step:
1. @ Collisions: There is damage when two cars hit another.
2. @ AI: LFS is an online simulator. Would you be happier if the AI was removed altogether?
3. @ Package: You can download your game anytime, you can buy it everywhere, you can unlock it on any computer. I prefer this method to a sold CD with copy-protection and the like.
4. @ Installation: I like LFS because it ships in a .zip. Just extract it and it works. No registry-entries, no cumbersome installer. A .zip is the userfriendliest installation method I can think of.

I know that there are problems with LFS, and I'd like to have them fixed, but you didn't expressively mention any of them.

Vain

[Pain-less]

AI, yes, the AI is extremely poor, I have said it a million times, untill the AI is up to scratch it should be removed, as it is now they serve no purpose at all.
I can't 100% agree with that statement. They can be fun to dodge at times. :nod:




I for one applaud the installation routine, its a clean, light routine that doesnt need any bulky uneeded installers, registery entries etc etc, I hope it contiues to be this way.

Bottomline, you will NOT find a better online race sim PERIOD.

Dan,
I can agree with those statements.


Very good point...below!!

[HorsePower]

Vain, I agree. :nod:

But I like to add one point. :smileypul

I bought LFS to have thrilling online races with the best simulated physics I can get, and not to get damaged in a realistic way. If I crash in LFS, I'll crash. My car will be broken somehow and I will not be able to drive the way I drove before the crash. Who cares, what the car looks like?


In my opinion, LFS is not a crash simulator.

[Rtsbasic]

I prefer the simple install method compared to other games (or sims, whatever you wanna call them). Means I can keep it on my archive drive, and if I for any reason have to reformat and install Windows, I can just create a new shortcut, unlock my licence again, and its all ready to go.

Let me ask you this, if you had to reinstall LFS every time you reinstalled windows, or got a new HD or whatever, would you prefer to backup and then move accross all the skins, setups, config file etc seperately, or would you rather just move the whole folder?

For your other points..damage exists, it could be better but as has been said the current implimentation is a quick one to get the job done. Go bounce off a few curbs at South City in the LX4 for 5 mins, you'll see it working.

Your definately looking at it from the wrong side. This isn't an EA game release, its made by a very small talented team of people, actual people that you can communicate with. You will not find it in stores, they would not even be aware of it, for this setting the online distribution system is excellent and very straight forward. Don't forget its not finished - its clearly in ALPHA status, that is what you paid for. The AI is a moot point - its an online sim, the AI has its uses but it is not the primary focus of this game.

[Cue-Ball]

Did the OP not play the demo before purchasing? Was he forced at gunpoint to buy LFS?

If it's not up to your high standards, go play something else. But I think you'll be pretty disappointed with the alternatives.

[PLAYLIFE]

What the hell would I do with a CD and a carton case?
I like that it's zipped and does not install.


The most important thing for me is driving physics. Everything else comes fifth.

[Funnybear]

Unfortuantly my friend you have opened the proverbial hornets nest. I can feel the flames rising already . . . .

I think what the devsa have done here with LFS is unique and commendable. They have taken a gamble in way in that by getting the community to support them they are able to give the afformentioned community a sim that they hanker for.

As you get into LFS more (And I hope you do, give it time. It will grow on you) the good points far out weight the bad. The fact that I have only paid £24 quid for what in actuality, a perfectly servicable and usable simulator and that I am garanteed a whole lot more before I will have to pay the final installment can only be a good thing.

LFS is incomplete and it sais all that in the payment small print. You have paid your money and subscribed to an incomplete product. Prehaps more fool you for doing so as you obvioulsy didn't get the 'product' in the first place.

Some of the guys here have been here from the start, I have been here since Patch Q. And I plan to be here for Patch U, V, W, X, Y and Z. WE have seen some MASSIVE improvements in this new Patch T and it can only get better. You have subscribed to a game development, not a finished product.

Try and understand that before you rant about the unfinished'ness of it all. To me, thats part of the attraction.

All your points are easily answered if you punt around the forum for a bit. You will also see the involvment and the love that the Community already has for LFS already and it's not even finished yet.

So Go LFS. Rar, rar, rar.

[molocco]

With LFS it's a little different, as we are told from the onset this is a work in progress, and as such, you are asked to pay for the privalege to be a Beta tester.

i was not asked to be a beta tester: i was fully aware that i was buying a three piece (stage1-3) software from the beginning. and right now i have the pleasure to play a public prerelease of one of the finest in todays computer simulations, awaiting the final release and doing thousands of miles in endless hours of fun.
maybe you have to look better before you buy next time, or have a second look, maybe you´ll be pleased then. :shrug:

peace mo

[SamH]

Tony, you've had S2 almost as long as all the rest of us. How come you don't get it, and we do?

We waited quite a long time for this most recent patch, and the wait paid off. It came with some monster improvements, and a F1 car. I mean.. AN F1 CAR!!! Come ON man! Doesn't that crank your handle!?

You're not alone, though, Tony. Some of those people who bitched about waiting so long for a patch are now bitching about new patches daily. Still, I think you're seriously in the minority. The rest of us have grasped the concept, and that's why we're happy with both the progress to date, and the direction things are going for the future.

You can please all the people some of the time, some of the people all the time, but never all of the people, all of the time.

[Tony01Ball01]

I spend a lot of time on GTL, inparticular the nordshlief, a freeware track of the highest order. I paid the same for GTL as I did for LFS, there is no comparison. I have spent a small fortune on FS2004 and all the add-ons, time etc required to get the most from them.

Both the above are examples of simulators that have extremely active on-line comunities, releasing both payware and freeware second to known. RFactor is similar, in terms of quality.

When I wrote the thread, a first I may add, as usually I'm too busy enjoying using the software to write about it (forums are essential, but there are people out there who depend on the friendship the forum affords, rather than the simulator itself), I was benchmarking LFS against the likes of GTL and FS2004, maybe that was wrong, as one man cannot compete with a developemnt house, but when the price is the same, then I'm afraid that one man has to take the critism that is also aimed at the larger developers via the forums. That's the harsh reality of life.

So let's have the online updates, patches, freeware, payware whatever - but the most essential factor in all of that, is the core product is right first, and in comparison to others out there, I still do not believe this is right. And I tried the demo, read the website and I still bought the product. Truth be known, I'd still buy it again given the choice, FWD is FWD and RWD is RWD, at least that what the force feedback tell's me, more so than LFS's competitiors - but we have been spolit, and unfortunatley it's not enough these days, not for 30'odd pound.

[deggis]

We aren't beta testers because LFS isn't full of bugs. It's called alpha because it's unfinished but not unpolished. Ain't it funny that LFS is called "alpha" but it still has less bugs than 90% of the commercial games in "version 1.0" status?

And LFS's core audience - sim gamers - usually aren't total newbies with computers so simply extracting some ZIP file can't be too hard job to do.

All you want is just a CD package, right? You think that wouldn't increase the prize?

[danowat]

Ok, lets take GTL for example.

I like GTL, but in the online environment it cannot touch LFS, its netcode and online interface pales in comparison.

So lets look at price comparison, you and I paid £30 for GTL, and for that we got the content supplied and a single "quick fix" patch, and now Simbin have dropped it, no official addon content, no more patches.

LFS is a living breathing thing, always evolving.

Dan,

[Blackout]

Tony, you should really try longer races online, league or an single event. Those are much more fun, driving with 15-20 racers cleanly batteling from positions is the fun of LFS. You only have driven under 350 km online and I suppose on public servers, so you really havent experienced LFS like it should.

Oh, and Welcome to the forums :nod:

[ebola]

Ok, lets take GTL for example.

I like GTL, but in the online environment it cannot touch LFS, its netcode and online interface pales in comparison.

So lets look at price comparison, you and I paid £30 for GTL, and for that we got the content supplied and a single "quick fix" patch, and now Simbin have dropped it, no official addon content, no more patches.

LFS is a living breathing thing, always evolving.

Dan,

I think the last line above sums it up perfectly. Ive had this game nearly two years and when Im online my pulse still races!! There is not one other game out there that can do the same thing IMO.

Look at all the people that paid for netkar that must be the most buggiest release I have ever witnessed. I have a laptop and PC with XP pro and I cannot get that game running yet I play LFS fine on them both.

When I sit and think about the future of LFS I get boosebumps - I cant wait for the day a safety car is guiding us around a soaking track :) :)

BTW X-Plane is better than FS2004 IMO

[Dethred]

Dear thread starter,

You're in the wrong place to voice your opinion. An official online Forum for a software product is no place to criticize the software. You're 100% wrong because this is the LFS forum, and LFS is 110% perfect. God made LFS through "Scavier". The physics are just like real life, in fact all of this updating has been unneccessary as 95% of the LFS fanbase was defending LFS as a perfect sim needing no improvement since S1 went Beta. In light of this realization of LFS being perfect I suggest Scawen, Victor, and Eric just retire and maybe even bump the price up. As stated dozens of times before by Licensed S3 racers, they wont mind if the devs stop now, because they deserve the extra money anyways.

Therefore, long live LFS, stfu noob, and you're wrong for having an opinion.

Sincerely,
Aspiring LFS forum whore.


PS: I think I have finally mastered the art of licking dev nutsack (no offense to Scawen, Eric, or Victor, you guys seem cool). Now I am one of the regulars on here!

[danowat]

Ironic that your "comedic" post was one of the first "nasty bastard" fanboy type posts wasnt it.

Dan,

[Blackout]

Where is my "Stab people on the face over the Internet machine (TM)" now when I need it.

[deggis]

Dethred, at least now you don't have any credibility anymore. :shrug:

[MyBoss]

Ironic that your "comedic" post was one of the first "nasty bastard" fanboy type posts wasnt it.

Dan,


Yep, thought about that to :pillepall

[keiran]

I really can't understand why these people buy LFS :shrug:

As far as I'm aware with LFS all you are buying is the content. Demo users get the latest physics and features for free but licensed users get more tracks and cars.

Simbin made GTL, so lets take GTR for example. GTR was appauling online and hotlapping wasn't much better, so what did they do about it ?? Well nothing they decided they'd make "GTR 2" :scratchch so all them people who paid £30 for GTR which doesn't do everything it's supposed to do, now have to pay another £30 for GTR 2 :pillepall = £60

Bringing mods into the discussion is pointless, LFS isn't open to the modding community and so far the likes of rF hasnt exactly got a lot of high quality mods... nor does it have near the amount of online users LFS has.

LFS is a constantly growing project, hell Scawen has been releasing small patches since the main patch was out - http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=7287

Maybe you shouldn't have bought LFS and waited a few years down the line for S3 final as I for one I'm glad to be part of this project. 3 or 4 years of the devs work for £24 is a bargain in my opinion, heck people would charge a heck of a lot more than that for the 3D models of the tracks and cars. After playing LFS I've not been able to play any other game and at this rate probaly never will. No more mass market "sims" full of aids to let 3 year olds think they are good drivers for me, thank you very much :tilt:

Keiran

[SamH]

^^^ What he said.

[mr_x]

I really can't understand why these people buy LFS :shrug:

As far as I'm aware with LFS all you are buying is the content. Demo users get the latest physics and features for free but licensed users get more tracks and cars.

Simbin made GTL, so lets take GTR for example. GTR was appauling online and hotlapping wasn't much better, so what did they do about it ?? Well nothing they decided they'd make "GTR 2" :scratchch so all them people who paid £30 for GTR which doesn't do everything it's supposed to do, now have to pay another £30 for GTR 2 :pillepall = £60

Bringing mods into the discussion is pointless, LFS isn't open to the modding community and so far the likes of rF hasnt exactly got a lot of high quality mods... nor does it have near the amount of online users LFS has.

LFS is a constantly growing project, hell Scawen has been releasing small patches since the main patch was out - http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=7287

Maybe you shouldn't have bought LFS and waited a few years down the line for S3 final as I for one I'm glad to be part of this project. 3 or 4 years of the devs work for £24 is a bargain in my opinion, heck people would charge a heck of a lot more than that for the 3D models of the tracks and cars. After playing LFS I've not been able to play any other game and at this rate probaly never will. No more mass market "sims" full of aids to let 3 year olds think they are good drivers for me, thank you very much :tilt:

Keiran





i agree with everything Keiran said there, i was a Simbin/GTR victim, and it was actually Keiran that told me about this game (back in the Black Hawk Down days :D), i got it last year, and i've not bought another racing game since! (well GTL, but it was pants compared to this). also.. LFS has THE BEST online community of all, the devs help out people, and from what i've heard they are top blokes aswell!

[Dethred]

Dethred, at least now you don't have any credibility anymore. :shrug:

You capture the essence of my post. I have played the game religiously much longer than you have (or at least the full versions), yet you accuse me of not having any credibility because I mock all those who blindly defend the product.:pillepall Way to go man! I bet you're one of the 95% who upheld the illusion S1's physics were perfect.

Its hard being so darn right.

[rafo_cardenas]

Dont like it, dont play it :)

[Dethred]

I really can't understand why these people buy LFS :shrug:

As far as I'm aware with LFS all you are buying is the content. Demo users get the latest physics and features for free but licensed users get more tracks and cars.

Simbin made GTL, so lets take GTR for example. GTR was appauling online and hotlapping wasn't much better, so what did they do about it ?? Well nothing they decided they'd make "GTR 2" :scratchch so all them people who paid £30 for GTR which doesn't do everything it's supposed to do, now have to pay another £30 for GTR 2 :pillepall = £60

Bringing mods into the discussion is pointless, LFS isn't open to the modding community and so far the likes of rF hasnt exactly got a lot of high quality mods... nor does it have near the amount of online users LFS has.

LFS is a constantly growing project, hell Scawen has been releasing small patches since the main patch was out - http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=7287

Maybe you shouldn't have bought LFS and waited a few years down the line for S3 final as I for one I'm glad to be part of this project. 3 or 4 years of the devs work for £24 is a bargain in my opinion, heck people would charge a heck of a lot more than that for the 3D models of the tracks and cars. After playing LFS I've not been able to play any other game and at this rate probaly never will. No more mass market "sims" full of aids to let 3 year olds think they are good drivers for me, thank you very much :tilt:

Keiran





People buy the sim not knowing (because there is no info on the website) that the AI doesn't function properly, the physics engine is still flawed (although slowly getting better), etc.

Now you can say that is inherent in an Alpha release, but people expect a functioning product, for instance, working AI (even if they are incredibly stupid they could still pit for christ's sakes), and a real approximation of the amount of users online. The website its self is misleading as it groups the demo racers, S1, and S2 racers into the tally right above the current release. So when the site says there are 900 racers online the consumer says "wow, thats a lot, I think I might get this S2", only to find there are barely 300 in the most complete version of the game, most of which are drift servers or other instances where a decent race is difficult to find. The only fault of the devs in that is the misleading approach to showing how many people are online. If you're going to say there are ___ people online, indicate that its not just those with the current version displayed directly below it.

But I suppose that is too difficult a concept to understand for some of you.

[Hankstar]

What they said ^^^ except Dethred. This was an adult discussion up to his first post.

I can't really add much to the conversation though, the responses here have been mostly well thought-out and to the point. I would however like to thank you, Tony01, for not starting yet another "omfg this sucks!!11" thread and just spitting the dummy, and instead actually being intelligent and composed in your posts...even though I pretty much disagree with you on everything (except the AI, but we all know they're useless and have dealt with it), but hey, that's forum life.

Give LFS a chance. You've bought the license, so get out there, get to know the game a bit more and get your money's worth.

[Dethred]

Dont like it, dont play it :)


Drink a healthy dose of Hemlock, please. Who ever said they didn't like it? I think it is a great sim. But I suppose since I like the game I should not criticize it? Your reasoning is either beyond me or below me. I'll assume its the latter.

[_rod_]

You guys forgot to mention this:

At the start of every year, AutoSimSport and Blackhole Motorsports ask the sim racing community to vote for their favorite (aspects of) sims and results are coming in.

We are proud to have been rewarded with so many awards this year:

-The AutoSimSport "Best simulation" award,
-The AutoSimSport "Sim racing personality of the year" went to Victor van Vlaardingen.
BHM Awards
The BH Motorsports awards are now over as well and we have been blessed with the following 3 awards :

-The BHM "Game of the year" award,
-The BHM "Best multiplayer" award,
-The BHM "Best physics" award.

Thank you all for your confidence and enthusiasm!


Just another thing, that was before the new patch with upgraded physics :thumb:

[Dethred]

What they said ^^^ except Dethred. This was an adult discussion up to that point :thumbsup:


Quite Wrong. Adults usually obtain a higher level of reasoning than that of high schoolers.

For instance:
1.) Assuming criticism is a dislike for the game despite years of participation and an S2 license = high school reasoning.
2.) Blind support for issues that even the devs admit need to be addressed = High school reasoning.

Try and keep your assertions to yourself, you're obviously lost in the high school level of reasoning. Making negative judgements about other people's valid criticisms of something they want to see improved through contructive input is childish.

PS: This really adds up to your comments being completely false, in an entirely Ironic way.

[deggis]

You capture the essence of my post. I have played the game religiously much longer than you have (or at least the full versions), yet you accuse me of not having any credibility because I mock all those who blindly defend the product.:pillepall Way to go man!
I referred to your "Physics still FUBAR" thread which included unnecessary provocation. "Constructive mocking" and trolling has a tiny difference...

I bet you're one of the 95% who upheld the illusion S1's physics were perfect.
Nope.

[rafo_cardenas]

Your reasoning is either beyond me or below me. I'll assume its the latter.

Good :shrug:

[_rod_]

There might have people here that blindely suports LFS, but most of the users knows its flaws. The problem is that 99% of the times that people come bashing LFS or simply making critics its purly based on I Think rather them facts, or a simply comparison to real world physics and how cars behave in real life. Yeah the AI is very stupid and we all know that, also Alpha means incomplite, so not all features are here, so you clearly shouldnt expect to see flawless physics, perfect AI, and other stuff. But as a alpha stage we have a very very stable game. Wich other alpha game that you know that has gained awards of best physics, multiplayer, and game of the year? All givem by a respected website and magazine, as stated in my post a few posts up.


Edit: in lfs world, and in te forum when the graphics that shows how may users online its slipted in 2 parts demo racers and licensed racers, and you say 300 licenses online at once, we had 900 the other day

[keiran]

People buy the sim not knowing (because there is no info on the website) that the AI doesn't function properly, the physics engine is still flawed (although slowly getting better), etc.

Now you can say that is inherent in an Alpha release, but people expect a functioning product, for instance, working AI (even if they are incredibly stupid they could still pit for christ's sakes), and a real approximation of the amount of users online. The website its self is misleading as it groups the demo racers, S1, and S2 racers into the tally right above the current release. So when the site says there are 900 racers online the consumer says "wow, thats a lot, I think I might get this S2", only to find there are barely 300 in the most complete version of the game, most of which are drift servers or other instances where a decent race is difficult to find. The only fault of the devs in that is the misleading approach to showing how many people are online. If you're going to say there are ___ people online, indicate that its not just those with the current version displayed directly below it.

But I suppose that is too difficult a concept to understand for some of you.
Wow, so LFS.net doesn't contain the game :pillepall

Any customer can download the game and play it in demo mode. If they can't work out from there that the AI aint great then whats this world coming to ... The physics have there flaws but what game advertises there flaws ?? God all the simbin/ISI titles have flaws but they don't stick "NET PLAY DOESN't WORK" in the case of GTR. Thinking about it now, LFS.net doesn't appear to advertise AI as being part of the game...

I couldn't care what the racers online thing says because at the end of the day in this world every statistic is trying to make things sound better. Look up your car manual and the MPG given there is something you'll probaly never achieve, I know I'm not and I've driven the thing as efficently as possible. I know that this is because I get stuck in traffic etc, but what I'm saying is everyone advertises the best possible statistic they can.

You can't find a server for good races ?? I find plenty, and I don't drift. Your exagerating things a bit too much, one must assume :thumb:

Keiran

[Chris_Kerry]

Dethred,

Although I understand what you are trying to get at unfortunatly you have gone about it in an arrogant and uneducated manner. Okay maybe uneducated is a little harsh but by ridiculing those who love the game or as you put it "fanboys", you are in essence degrading the heart of the game of which I don't think you are intending to do.

However I will ignore this for my response and try to respond to you in an adult manner without jumping to swayed conclusions.

Yes maybe the website in its entirity doesn't give the consumer enough information about the state of the games development and offline play. Regarding the offline issues, the title of the game for me says it all. It's an online simulator and therefore should be judged on its online characteristics which are second to none.

Also if you where setting up a business and you had not fully completed a product but still wanted to reward your efforts with some payback, would you advertise that it was unfinished and risk losing customers and profit? I think the answer would be no and therefore you are unqualified to make a criticism on that point.

And finally seeing as everyone else has made a point on how they feel about the game and the own personal stance, I play LFS no other game will interest me until I hear from estabilshed respected simracers that another product is better! The hype over GTR, which online it turned out to be poor, the hype over rFactor, turned out poor and then the hype of netkar, which turned out poor.

Couple this with how this game is evolving and reacting to its competitiors shown in the latest F1 car release, it continually shows me that my investment in this game so far has been worth it, and long may it continue.

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

You can't find a server for good races ?? I find plenty, and I don't drift. Your exagerating things a bit too much, one must assume :thumb:


That's because he's in the US, and he's right about that part at least.

[BrandonAGr]

Too bad you can't vote to kick someone out of a thread...

I for one like the installation from a zip, it's incredibly clean, I know exactly where all the files are. I wish more software did this.

[Gunn]

unfortunatley it's not enough these days, not for 30'odd pound.You must be kidding.

[Theafro]

I'm sure he is, or a kid (the spoilt type) :D

[Hankstar]

Quite Wrong. Adults usually obtain a higher level of reasoning than that of high schoolers.

For instance:
1.) Assuming criticism is a dislike for the game despite years of participation and an S2 license = high school reasoning.
2.) Blind support for issues that even the devs admit need to be addressed = High school reasoning.

Try and keep your assertions to yourself, you're obviously lost in the high school level of reasoning. Making negative judgements about other people's valid criticisms of something they want to see improved through contructive input is childish.

Assuming someone's a highschooler and of a lesser intellectual level then you because they disagree with your constant insulting of so-called "fanboys", and object to the childish grade-school sarcasm displayed in your first post = the height of arrogance. Exhibit A:

...Therefore, long live LFS, stfu noob, and you're wrong for having an opinion.

Sincerely,
Aspiring LFS forum whore.


PS: I think I have finally mastered the art of licking dev nutsack (no offense to Scawen, Eric, or Victor, you guys seem cool). Now I am one of the regulars on here!...

"Forum whore", "licking dev nutsack" ... stooping to grade-school level insults of an entire community is clearly the product of a highly educated mind, as is the enormous chip on your shoulder which spawned them.

Blind support for your assertion that majority of LFS players are in denial about LFS's problems and that you're the only one who has noticed them or brought them to our attention = the height of arrogance. Go and see if the Whitehouse is hiring. They have a new war to plan.

I'll have a stab and say that most of us know about LFS's problems without needing you to inform us. I'll also say that we like to play this sim despite its problems because we know they're being worked on and bitching about them solves nothing. Your presence on this forum seems either to be inflammatory or utterly pointless. Try and keep your assertions about me to yourself as you're obviously lost in the fog of your own arrogance.

[BuddhaBing]

Now I remember why I don't like online gaming forums. They have a way of sucking all the enjoyment out of a game.

[Rtsbasic]

Just sit back and laugh, works for me. You *definately* get your money's worth with this game, I am not a fan-boy by any means but I generally spend a good few hours a week racing online in LFS, no other game has EVER lasted that long for me and continues to challenge me.

[creepylonghair]

£24 too much for LFS?...I've spent more than that in an hour during a lager frenzy.

Totally agree with the earlier comments as well about most "full" releases being far less finished than LFS is in it's current state..

[Tick]

I've played many a SO CALLED finished Racing game ready for the shelves!
Ive got hundreds more I dont even look at any more. NC2002,03,Heat,05 or whatever it was (see my intrest), GTR, the NFS series, Shall I go on?

I stumbled across LFS a few years ago S1, played off and on and then joined a Team. Now I play a few nights a week, I have less than 10k in miles.

With LFS still in alpha I would have to say its the best unfinished game I have ever spent my money on!


Tick

[AndroidXP]

Hey Dethred, want to stir up the old discussion of how the devs make false advertisement with the "players online" count again? Or does anyone in here maybe want to discuss the incredibly-flawed-and-bound-to-fail LFS business model instead? Oh the memories.

(:D)

[Forbin]

Quite Wrong. Adults usually obtain a higher level of reasoning than that of high schoolers.
<snip>

I'll bite...

Sure seems to me like you don't consider it childish to tell people to go kill themselves on at least a couple occaisons. Oddly enough your method of choice is poison.

Now please drink some bleach if you're going to tell me to just play Netkar.
Drink a healthy dose of Hemlock, please.
I'm sure that proves you're the perfect example of a mature adult. :pillepall

Nothing wrong with posting your opinions (as repetative as they may be), but telling people to go kill themselves because their opinion differs from your own is just plain rude.

[r4ptor]

I can't take this thread seriously because...


With LFS still in alpha I would have to say its the best unfinished game I have ever spent my money on!

...I totally agree with this.

[BWX232]

I know someone that might buy it from you...
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=7200

[thisnameistaken]

I don't even think of LFS in the same terms as other games. I understand it's a tiny project, and I appreciate that someone's putting all this effort into making a product that I want even though the immediate commercial potential isn't that great. I'm happy to wait, and I think the product so far is excellent value. I've spent more time in LFS over the last year than I have playing every other game combined. Way more.

[AlexeyK]

I like LFS. :nod:

Sorry for such a simple, but most important, point.
I won't explain or apologize. That is not why I am
here. I made a choice.

So, if I like it, you better like it or else..! :razz:

[richy]

ah forget it,

i hope LFS gets more popular.

[Dethred]

I referred to your "Physics still FUBAR" thread which included unnecessary provocation. "Constructive mocking" and trolling has a tiny difference...


Nope.

Oh the title, waaaah. Get over the thread title, it got enough people in to read my constructive criticism. And don't tell me they're turned off from the thread title, because if their minds were open in the first place they wouldn't give a crap about the thread title after reading the first post.

[Dethred]

I'll bite...

Sure seems to me like you don't consider it childish to tell people to go kill themselves on at least a couple occaisons. Oddly enough your method of choice is poison.



I'm sure that proves you're the perfect example of a mature adult. :pillepall

Nothing wrong with posting your opinions (as repetative as they may be), but telling people to go kill themselves because their opinion differs from your own is just plain rude.

I'll bite...

Sure seems to me like you don't consider it childish to tell people to go kill themselves on at least a couple occaisons. Oddly enough your method of choice is poison.



I'm sure that proves you're the perfect example of a mature adult. :pillepall

Nothing wrong with posting your opinions (as repetative as they may be), but telling people to go kill themselves because their opinion differs from your own is just plain rude.

Sometimes you have to ask people to spare yourself the agony of trying to get simple facts through their heads. I wasn't telling them to do that because they disagreed, I am telling people to do that when they act like jackasses and say stupid crap like "If you don't like it don't play it". In which I think it would rid the world of vast stupidity. You're 21 years old, feel free to think what you wish, but it'll probably be wrong.:pillepall

[Dethred]

Hey Dethred, want to stir up the old discussion of how the devs make false advertisement with the "players online" count again? Or does anyone in here maybe want to discuss the incredibly-flawed-and-bound-to-fail LFS business model instead? Oh the memories.

(:D)


See, this crap is why I resort to unsavory tactics. Stupidity from others can seriously bother people making perfectly valid points.

[Dethred]

Assuming someone's a highschooler and of a lesser intellectual level then you because they disagree with your constant insulting of so-called "fanboys", and object to the childish grade-school sarcasm displayed in your first post = the height of arrogance. Exhibit A:

And your taking a joke out of context is Exhibit A,B, and C for why you make no point at all.


"Forum whore", "licking dev nutsack" ... stooping to grade-school level insults of an entire community is clearly the product of a highly educated mind, as is the enormous chip on your shoulder which spawned them.

Blind support for your assertion that majority of LFS players are in denial about LFS's problems and that you're the only one who has noticed them or brought them to our attention = the height of arrogance. Go and see if the Whitehouse is hiring. They have a new war to plan.

I'll have a stab and say that most of us know about LFS's problems without needing you to inform us. I'll also say that we like to play this sim despite its problems because we know they're being worked on and bitching about them solves nothing. Your presence on this forum seems either to be inflammatory or utterly pointless. Try and keep your assertions about me to yourself as you're obviously lost in the fog of your own arrogance.

Actually the fact that people have PM'ed me agreeing attests to the fact that everyone here shouts any dissent down. Its quite incredible how you're too blind to see that.

You fools (yes I am resorting to that because the responses I always get, even from courteous posts, is always complete jackassery) fail to realize that each and everyone of you just shouted the post starter down, and said dumbass things like "Don't play it then". How on earth do you expect people to treat you like adults if your initial response is that of a 5 year old essentially yelling "Nah nah Nee Boo Boo" at the guy critiquing the software.

The reason why the physics still aren't fixed, among other things, is because people just settling for what they have. This is extremely Ironic considering this may be the most interactive forum between the software devs and the buyers. Its like you praise the fact that they interact, but you guys only give praise and shout down constructive criticism. Maybe that's why other software developers don't even bother... Could it be because its the natural tendency of small minds to lean towards this behaviour?

Seriously, I have seen more threads with criticism than my own post count, and every time the person gets shouted down regardless of their approach. And you guys ask *ME* to come in and act civil? Your double standards borderline insanity.

[SamH]

You date someone who supposedly likes you the way you are. Then after not very long, they start trying to change the way you are into the way they think you should be.

Tony, LFS is what you paid for. Just because you invested in it doesn't mean you can now make demands on it, to effect a change in the way that it is, and the way the development goes. LFS remains consistently the thing you paid £24 for. It's a work in progress, with periodic updates, that will be finished when it's finished, and not a moment sooner. If that's no longer okay with you, you're the one being inconsistent.

And Defred, stop being a tit.

[KiDCoDEa]

Dethred you have converted me.
Before i thought u made a puddle of mud look sophisticated, but now, after reading all these posts you made about small minds i totally understand you and your constructiveness. So much it made me wanna follow your party.
Do i need to shave my head or do you allow different hairstyles?

[Gabkicks]

Dethred sure has a way with words:bananadea

[AtomAnt]

Hey Tony01, there's a kid here who might make you an offer to buy your CD if you're not happy with it....lol...see thread called "It Sucks"

[SamH]

Hey Tony01, there's a kid here who might make you an offer to buy your CD if you're not happy with it....lol...see thread called "It Sucks"
BRILLIANT thinking!!

Go for it, Tony. You've had enough.. now have a heart! :)

[SamH]

Dethred sure has a way with words:bananadea
I just reviewed his posts. I think counselling is in order. I think he wins the prize for LFS's most negative disposition.

[Turko]

Tony: Ungratefull Shit :pillepall, Go play NFS

LFS Owns. Full Stop

[Dethred]

I just reviewed his posts. I think counselling is in order. I think he wins the prize for LFS's most negative disposition.

No, I just despise a lot of the people on here for terrible posts and making jackass remarks like "He needs counseling".

PS: You seem to have made a good post towards the thread starter, you must be in the 1-2% that think the game is fine but don't whitewash whatever is said to the contrary. Maybe the thread starter feels the lacking qualities in the game were not properly addressed on the webpage?

[joeynuggetz]

I'm going to be honest. I agree that LFS is the best sim for the PC period. It's like a breath of fresh air after spending an hour playing an rFactor mod who's creator thinks he knows something about physics or car modeling.

The devs here are very talented but it sucks that updates come every six months. I'm all for vacation when you deserve it, and they certainly deserve it after this months suprise. I just think that the devs really need to step it up and realize that the goal to getting to S3 cant be a part time job if they expect to ever compete with other sims that will be out in 2009- which is right around the time when S3 will be released at this rate. I think the BF1 thing was a good move and I hope it gets more people racing LFS.

[Dethred]

Dethred you have converted me.
Before i thought u made a puddle of mud look sophisticated, but now, after reading all these posts you made about small minds i totally understand you and your constructiveness. So much it made me wanna follow your party.
Do i need to shave my head or do you allow different hairstyles?

Irony is a concept you don't quite understand yet, isn't it?

[admkirk]

The same sad story gets repeated over and over. "OMG, LFS isn't perfect! We were fooled."

*Shocker*

The fact of the matter is, you don't get a more realistic, fun, yet easily accessible roadcar (and partly track car) simulation for $42 anywhere, by anyone. Please, enjoy what you have and keep in mind that it's getting better by leaps and bounds for every update Vic, Scawen and Eric do. If you whine about the state LFS is is now, you would have committed suicide back in the demo days.

Oh, and btw, I applaud the trolling effort. Or, as we say it in Finnish: ely2.

[Moonclaw]

You're doing it wrong.

[Gabkicks]

Irony is a concept you don't quite understand yet, isn't it?
you must really be bored to be constantly trying to pick fights online and throwing insults around.:scratchch

[AeoIus]

Since I'm not being hindered by any negative pre posts feelings about Dethred, I have to say I found his first reponse very funny :D

Then again I probably have a weird sense of humor :p

I've been playing since S1 and thought S1 and S2 both were great, but this new update just made me see how much better it still could be.

Being content or happy with the way something works and defending that is quite ok because it is (at least for me) a bit hard to imagine beforehand what a difference a physics update can make. Then again I don't have to be the creative genius to think about how it can all be better and just play and enjoy the game as it is at that point.

LFS is however the only racesim and in fact only game I've been playing the last year. Every time it's fun and enjoyable so I'm happy I spend the 36€ on it. I got my money's worth out of it big time and intend to hang on till S3 and more. I like the fact it is still developing, because that gives me a game that will change again in the future and will change for the better. If it was finished and development would stop, it would just not be as much fun :)

[Yiots]

I must admit when I bought LFS... I too was a little foolish and jumped to conclusions after getting into a RWD that could barely hold onto the track(default settings). What I didn't do was give it a chance... I kept complaining more then practising and doin setupwork(which is actually the key to enjoying this game to its fullest).

Was my face red when I finally asked a guy for a setup, while we were racing online(the only way). He sent it to me and it changed my whole outlook on the sim. I realized immediately the potential was there... I just never looked for it. And I have ofcourse been happy ever since... HAIL LFS!

What I still don't understand is how so many people see Rfactor as a sim? Maybe that's more your style of game. I bought it when it was released, after having tried the demo and was well... not at all impressed. I played it for less then a week and went back to LFS(like I ever left). Now only the mods that will be developed in the future are my only reason for keeping it.

[JJ72]

Nothing to say, besides that you shouldn't use the word "we" all too casually.

Since using "we" implies your opinion to be shared among most of us, I think that's hardly the case on this forum.

The simpliest fact is most of us love the game and think it is how LFS should continue to develop, if not in the minute details but rather for the broad structure.

*It seems it's harder for the ANTI-FANBOYS to reflect on themselves than the fanboys.

[deggis]

Oh the title, waaaah. Get over the thread title, it got enough people in to read my constructive criticism. And don't tell me they're turned off from the thread title, because if their minds were open in the first place they wouldn't give a crap about the thread title after reading the first post.
You thought I haven't read it?

Next time use this thread (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=6850&highlight=major+problems) as an example how to make a constructive critisism thread.

[Bramski]

I feel a fanboy moment coming on. :nod:

http://www.bhmotorsports.com/awards/4/winners/370
http://www.bhmotorsports.com/awards/4/winners/342
http://www.bhmotorsports.com/awards/4/winners/335


As for feeling shortchanged by LFS... When I play it I feel like a dropped a Pound and found a Tenner.

[danowat]

The cost of LFS

£24 for a license
£55 for a Logitech Driving force pro
£90 for a Momo 11 wheel
£60 for a Frex conversion

The feeling of driving the best online racing sim there is

PRICELESS

There are some things you can't really put a price on, and the feeling I get from playing LFS is one of them.

[colcob]

Too bad you can't vote to kick someone out of a thread...


Ah, but you can...

Add Dethred to your ignore list. Its done wonders for my blood pressure, although I do wish people would stop quoting his posts so I end up reading them.

http://www.lfsforum.net/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=7444

[tinvek]

the wway i see things is

GTR, GTl etc are like NASA, Russian Space Program etc

then we have Netkar, Rfactor etc which are like the various x prise challengers

LFS of course is the equivelent of Dick Rutan's team :)

edit

thought i'd better expand this a bit to explain reasoning.

the big guys get the job done but not very efficiently (either in $billions or system resources) but its always been the way its done.

the new smaller guys are showing that a better job (be it getting people into space cheaply or an online racing sim / game ) can be done with far less resources

[Matrixi]

The cost of LFS

£24 for a license
£55 for a Logitech Driving force pro
£90 for a Momo 11 wheel
£60 for a Frex conversion

The feeling of driving the best online racing sim there is

PRICELESS
Well said. :D I have propably spent well over 350 euros on my wheel/pedal/shifter setup alone, just for LFS. And I would gladly and easily pay twice the price of LFS from what it is now.

[Madman_CZ]

The cost of LFS

£24 for a license
£55 for a Logitech Driving force pro
£90 for a Momo 11 wheel
£60 for a Frex conversion

The feeling of driving the best online racing sim there is

PRICELESS

There are some things you can't really put a price on, and the feeling I get from playing LFS is one of them.

for everything else.. there is mastercard :thumb:

just thought id finish it off .. :D

this thread is quite an enjoyable read... as always, i tend to not bother anymore with threads who say lfs isnt good, finished, not worth 24 when at alpha stage and so on, its a waste of my time and the clock is ticking away in my life so id rather be playing lfs through that time. I he doesnt wanna play lfs than thats fine.. but he doesnt know what hes missing...... just a waste of time trying to prove a point or explain what lfs is really about... credit to all those who tried in this thread tho..

think Turkos post above says it all :razz:

mad

edit*** where are our AVATARS!!!

[Hahni]

I'm glad to spend money in a product that is still in development, aslong it works fine without any significant bugs. LFS is definitely such a product.
LFS does his job, it's a online race sim. POINT.

But LFS is more, to. I like the fact, that if I now stop playing and come back after a longer periode, the game has changed. It has developed, it has new content, it is better than before. All without bying a new product. I often stop playing games, cause they normaly get boring after a while. But LFS gives me the option to observe it, thats excitingly and not as boring as other games.

[Gunn]

I sold two of my sisters to set up my LFS and I only cried a little bit. My lap times are really improving.

[PLAYLIFE]

Dear thread starter,

You're in the wrong place to voice your opinion. An official online Forum for a software product is no place to criticize the software. You're 100% wrong because this is the LFS forum, and LFS is 110% perfect. God made LFS through "Scavier". The physics are just like real life, in fact all of this updating has been unneccessary as 95% of the LFS fanbase was defending LFS as a perfect sim needing no improvement since S1 went Beta. In light of this realization of LFS being perfect I suggest Scawen, Victor, and Eric just retire and maybe even bump the price up. As stated dozens of times before by Licensed S3 racers, they wont mind if the devs stop now, because they deserve the extra money anyways.

Therefore, long live LFS, stfu noob, and you're wrong for having an opinion.

Sincerely,
Aspiring LFS forum whore.


PS: I think I have finally mastered the art of licking dev nutsack (no offense to Scawen, Eric, or Victor, you guys seem cool). Now I am one of the regulars on here!

You know I don't think most people here support the devs so they could kiss ass, but because they actually like what's going on.

So there you have people who like what's going on and then there are guys like you, who come in, start badmouthing the whole system and what do you expect????? Pats on the back??

There are few people here who insult you, but rather point out the obvious. I for one am going to say ur an idiot!

[mrodgers]

Any of you veteran guys remember back in the S2 demo talking about IDI team and the link to the site about forum raging? Does that ring a bell? It's the first thing that comes to mind when reading Dethred's posts. Just not worth responding too.

[vyloveny]

Tony01Ball01 - you are an IDIOT .
LOL.

[axus]

Sorry if I repeat points, but I'm not reading through a 3 page thread to reply.

The LFS development model is in place because of the market - it so happens that racing sims are far from being complete. The whole market is behind because they aren't a very profitable market so the companies that are capable of developing one of these will not be interested, or they will skimp through the development, throw a canned engine in and pay off a bunch of professional drivers to say its good a la GTR. As such the only people that take this upon themselves are small development teams. In order to charge money for it and be competetive, they must quit their day jobs and put everything they have into the project. In the mean time they need money to survive. This is where the three stage model comes in, with you paying for the part of the sim that you get. :nod:

[AndroidXP]

Tony01Ball01 - you are an IDIOT .
LOL.What a well reasoned remark. I highly appreciate your useful contribution to this thread.
LOL. :pillepall

[STRAHD]

Only skimmed through the first page so ill say my 2cents even though Im sure its all been said b4. I like most have to disagree with all points, I like alot of ppl here on the forum come from back in the demo days before S1 when the physics were um.... interesting, but thats what made the game unique, you accually had to drive not just press the gas and turn, and the only damage was engine damage so the recent addition of visual damage is fantastic although not complete. As for the AI, there pretty bad but if you put them in a faster car and let them do a race or two to get a little better then they can be sorta fun to bang around with, as long as you keep in mind how they run, but LFS is and always will be sold as an ONLINE racing sim, so get urself on the track(get some good setups), make some friends an have fun.

Oh and the install, no wait there is no install, "you mean I dont have to wait a half an hour for it to install before I can play" wow that I think is a great feature.

[mike20002]

Well, I want to give my word on this too.
LFS is the best online racing game in years! :thumb:

I downloaded the demo, tested it, saw it was a Alpha release (I know what alpha means... can be very buggy, not ready software...)

I did like the demo, and I did'nt think that the license cost was too much so I bought it (couse if a pay the developer, he might continue to develope the game)

I have been racing every night since day one...
Lfs has been giving me much more enjoy that many of the other games I have been playing over my 20 years of gaming...

/micke

Edit: Dev. team keep up the good work!!!

[DEVIL 007]

I would like to say something only about the patch/game installation.

I know quite a alot of people who cant use ZIP:shrug: but can use these awfull atomatic installations where are usually told steb by step what to do(not all the time though).
I hate this instllation/uninstllation packs as there is always some file/registry entry left in system.
I realy like the idea LFS using ZIP distribution as it make my system as clean as possible but why not to have 2 option to choose.
1 for noobs:thumb: and one for the rest of us.

[Dupson]

One more thing, the installation / upgrade procedure is pathetic. As the developer is keen to charge developer package style money, they should be prepared as a minimum, to provide a good quality installer / updater. Right clicking on zip files is for freeware only.


Sorry bud im being a little ofensive but that is just a plain foolnes.:pillepall

Where's the point in clicking that "next" button in installers , waiting for them for pre-unpacking , then reading all the terms, instaling and on the end reading again "thank you " message. Sorry but that accusation is somehow painful for me as I love LFS without installer!! I see installer completly unnecessary. Furthermore - no messing with registry , system files etc - Lfs Team thank you , I didnt pay though but thanks :)

GET THE ZIP FILE - UNZIP - OVERWRITE - DONE !!!!!!! SIMPLE AS THAT !! :nod:

greetings :)

[rafo_cardenas]

...when they act like jackasses and say stupid crap like "If you don't like it don't play it".
ROFL ...now I am a jackass and say crap. Very adult and respectful way of passing your point of view.
This gets more and more entretaining by the day. Lets see what I am tomorrow.


PS. For those who have not followed this thread, it was me who posted "If you don't like it don't play it", meaning, why bother discussing over a game? if you feel so strong about the flaws of a game, why bother even playing it (not to mention posting about it), get that other game that maybe you think is better. End of story.
If I play LFS for almost 3 years now, is because if have fun, sure there are flaws, but for me the pros are largely greater than those flaws, and with the aggregate bonus that in here you have a comitted dev team which makes every effort to solve those flaws, little by little.
So, my question is why bother wasting your precious time in something you dont enjoy?

[Forbin]

Ah, but you can...

Add Dethred to your ignore list. Its done wonders for my blood pressure, although I do wish people would stop quoting his posts so I end up reading them.

http://www.lfsforum.net/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=7444
That's a good idea. :)

I implore others to do the same. Nothing good comes from reading this guy's posts.

[Gabkicks]

his goal is simply conflict. :shrug: doesnt matter if its unneccesary or if he's wrong. maybe his goal was to get some attention which we're giving him.

[SamH]

Yup.. anyone who has small children recognises this. Any attention.. even negative attention.. is attention nevertheless.

More to be pitied than blamed, I think, but someone who owns a S2 licence is probably too old to have his/her backside tanned.

[Jakg]

I for one like the installation from a zip, it's incredibly clean, I know exactly where all the files are. I wish more software did this.one of the few peices of software you can carry on a memory stick or mp3 player without needing reg entries or a conversion (ala portableapps.com)

[Jakg]

Where's the point in clicking that "next" button in installers , waiting for them for pre-unpacking , then reading all the terms, instaling and on the end reading again "thank you " message. Sorry but that accusation is somehow painful for me as I love LFS without installer!! I see installer completly unnecessary. Furthermore - no messing with registry , system files etc - Lfs Team thank you , I didnt pay though but thanks :)

GET THE ZIP FILE - UNZIP - OVERWRITE - DONE !!!!!!! SIMPLE AS THAT !! :nod:

greetings :)just went from liveforspeed.net>download the 1 mb patch>spent 2 secs extracting the patch in 30 secs

Secondly, how many other games can you make a system to swap between patches in 30 secs?

[Dethred]

ROFL ...now I am a jackass and say crap. Very adult and respectful way of passing your point of view.
This gets more and more entretaining by the day. Lets see what I am tomorrow.


PS. For those who have not followed this thread, it was me who posted "If you don't like it don't play it", meaning, why bother discussing over a game? if you feel so strong about the flaws of a game, why bother even playing it (not to mention posting about it), get that other game that maybe you think is better. End of story.
If I play LFS for almost 3 years now, is because if have fun, sure there are flaws, but for me the pros are largely greater than those flaws, and with the aggregate bonus that in here you have a comitted dev team which makes every effort to solve those flaws, little by little.
So, my question is why bother wasting your precious time in something you dont enjoy?


You're right, just because you say things as stupid as "Water is wet" and "The Sky is Blue", that doesn't mean you're a jackass. You guys always prove my point. You can criticize my approach to illustrating this to you, but do you expect me to try and get reasoning across to you via courtesy when you guys beg to be treated like halfwits? Get real.

[SamH]

You're right, just because you say things as stupid as "Water is wet" and "The Sky is Blue", that doesn't mean you're a jackass. You guys always prove my point. You can criticize my approach to illustrating this to you, but do you expect me to try and get reasoning across to you via courtesy when you guys beg to be treated like halfwits? Get real.
You're clearly not interested in LFS. You're only interested in being inflamatory and obstructive. You've not made a single interjection with any purpose but to insult, agitate or otherwise aggrovate in as long as I can be bothered reading up. You are a wrecker. If this were a game server, you would be banned. Wreckers are not tolerated on LFS.

[Dethred]

his goal is simply conflict. :shrug: doesnt matter if its unneccesary or if he's wrong. maybe his goal was to get some attention which we're giving him.

You almost figured it out, except you still replied despite your realization that repeated stupid remarks such as "Don't play it if you don't Like it" is fueling this. For instance my first post in this thread wasn't even serious, because I knew I'd get 10 moronic responses within a few minutes. At this point its just entertaining watching people get all huffy puffy and try and defend a piece of software. Seriously though, Based on what I always criticize (and most of you have said I was wrong about), and the patches which have fixed the problems, I have been consistently right.

I remember when all you tools were saying S2's Physics were perfact, hundreds of you. Does that mean the current set of physics is wrong? By 95% of you guys' opinions, everything since the S1 Demo physics are wrong. But you won't realize that will you?

PS: All you guys had to do was say "I'm sorry you feel that way" to the thread starter instead of shutting him out and saying his opinion is wrong. Instead, you all gave the benefit of the doubt to the game and not to the person critiquing it.

Feed it some more smart guys!

[SamH]

Wrecker

[Dethred]

You're clearly not interested in LFS. You're only interested in being inflamatory and obstructive. You've not made a single interjection with any purpose but to insult, agitate or otherwise aggrovate in as long as I can be bothered reading up. You are a wrecker. If this were a game server, you would be banned. Wreckers are not tolerated on LFS.

You obviously have a very small intellect. I entered this thread to try and make you fools that whitewashed the thread starter realize how rude you're being. Instead you did the expected and just made stupid comments about me, knowing I was just being sarcastic.

PS: I've been playing the game longer than you, I own an S2 license, I play several times a week... But sure, I understand how someone as constantly confused such as yourself feels that I am not interested in the game.:pillepall I was waiting for someone to say that, congrats SamH, you get the "Most predictable idiotic statement of the month" award.

[SamH]

Wrecker. Nothing more to be said.

[Dethred]

ROFL ...now I am a jackass and say crap. Very adult and respectful way of passing your point of view.
This gets more and more entretaining by the day. Lets see what I am tomorrow.


PS. For those who have not followed this thread, it was me who posted "If you don't like it don't play it", meaning, why bother discussing over a game? if you feel so strong about the flaws of a game, why bother even playing it (not to mention posting about it), get that other game that maybe you think is better. End of story.
If I play LFS for almost 3 years now, is because if have fun, sure there are flaws, but for me the pros are largely greater than those flaws, and with the aggregate bonus that in here you have a comitted dev team which makes every effort to solve those flaws, little by little.
So, my question is why bother wasting your precious time in something you dont enjoy?


After actually reading past the first few sentences I had to respond again.

First of all, typing "ROFL" and then proceeding to sarcastically call someone else mature is the most Ironic thing I have seen in this thread to date.

Secondly, not knowing that someone can criticize a game for its flaws, say its on the right track, but still enjoy playing it, is beyond retarded. You have to be extra strength stupid to think that someone can't have any qualms about a product to use that product.

What your real problem is, though, is you don't understand that the devs created this forum and get many of their ideas for fixes and improvements FROM US. So when the majority of you are merely praising the game and shouting down criticism, you're HURTING the process. Its all right, someday you'll grow up and realize this is how it works.

PS: WHERE ON EARTH DID I SAY I DON'T ENJOY THE GAME??? COME ON, READ FOR GOD'S SAKES!

[Dethred]

Wrecker. Nothing more to be said.
Maybe I don't play LFS enough to be insulted by the term wrecker. Maybe you should get out more?

[_rod_]

After actually reading past the first few sentences I had to respond again.

First of all, typing "ROFL" and then proceeding to sarcastically call someone else mature is the most Ironic thing I have seen in this thread to date.

Secondly, not knowing that someone can criticize a game for its flaws, say its on the right track, but still enjoy playing it, is beyond retarded. You have to be extra strength stupid to think that someone can't have any qualms about a product to use that product.

What your real problem is, though, is you don't understand that the devs created this forum and get many of their ideas for fixes and improvements FROM US. So when the majority of you are merely praising the game and shouting down criticism, you're HURTING the process. Its all right, someday you'll grow up and realize this is how it works.

PS: WHERE ON EARTH DID I SAY I DON'T ENJOY THE GAME??? COME ON, READ FOR GOD'S SAKES!


You say that we "fanboys" think that the game is perfect and beyond flaws is just stupid (not you i mean, just a way to put it) We "fanboys" know that lfs has its flaws, have you take a look lately at the test patches tthreads? or even the bugs section? Hell we might get over exited when a patch comes out, but that because we really enjoy the game, but after the new factor is gone, because thats when we have tested it enough to say that its a bug, or it was just a setup/mistake matter by the driver. We at any matter "stoped" the progress of the development, actually your the done doing it, i might be wrong here, but i didnt see you make one single post that has a... how can i say this... You say that the game sucks, but you have nothing to back up your opnion other tham "i think".

Sorry about typos or anything that you might not understand in my post, im tired, so it may not sound the way i planned, neither im trying to flame you Dethred

[Hankstar]

Mods...time to lock this puppy up I think. It's going around in circles and getting bloody ridiculous.

[tristancliffe]

I've never used to Ignore List before, but I'm suddenly seeing it's uses. If Dethred says something useful, or something that contributes to LFS, even just a reasoned argument for or against something let me know. I won't be waiting up. Dethred, I'm sure you'll reply to this with some moronic statement attacking me, but I won't be able to read it. If you're small minded and petty enough you'll do it anyway, which will just prove that point.

[Niels Heusinkveld]

I like the idea of releasing a sim in stages. If they didn't do that they would not have the $ to develop.. and even if they would have money, we would not have a sim (S3) until 2012..

I like to pay the devs directly as with LFS / Nkpro. I haven't touched Nkpro after day 1 but I don't regret buying it. Guys like Stefano and Scawen deserve some of my $ even though their sims aren't 'there' yet.

[Tyrion]

1st rule of Troll-stop: You do not respond to a troll.

2nd rule: You DO NOT respond to a troll.

3rd rule: You do not rise to the bait.

4th rule: If this is your first night at Troll-stop, you have got TO TRY to not respond.

[ATC Quicksilver]

4 pages :thumb:

Just to add my opinion...LFS is not a finished product, we all know that...however i have run it for years, even since S1 and in that time its crashed about 3 times and that was last week with the new patch...which is now fixed.

I own GTL, GTR, Rfactor and Netkar...GTR was good on single player but still had lots of bugs and online racing consisted of 3 cars trying to stay on track for more than 5 turns. GTL is pretty much a slower and easier version of GTR, very much the same in terms of online racing and bugs. Rfactor has a few good mods and a slightly better damage modelling than lfs, but once again a lack of a decent online community lets it down. Netkar is by far my worst purchase, it was released as a finished product and it was so buggy i couldn't play it for more than 5 mins without a new crash popping up.

LFS is by no means perfect, and the physics still need a lot of improving as do other features...but imo after playing all the other sims on offer and giving them a fair amount of testing i still say LFS the unfinished Alpha version has better physics, better online racing, and is much more polished and bug free.

[Dethred]

If Dethred says something useful, or something that contributes to LFS, even just a reasoned argument for or against something let me know. I won't be waiting up. Dethred, I'm sure you'll reply to this with some moronic statement attacking me, but I won't be able to read it. If you're small minded and petty enough you'll do it anyway, which will just prove that point.

I won't have to do it. I have people PMing me with material almost daily.

"Well I saw the irony.:thumb: I didn't think Yanks did irony.:)
Most of these people have their heads up their arses.
Good post." -Anon

"Hi there
I think you already know that, but I'd like to remind you that you have no chance against them concerning the argument. You have no reputation on the forum and you disagree with most people by not praising the game, which makes you a stupid bastard in their oppinion
As a matter of fact I agree with you in saying all they can do is flame people who are not over the moon from the current state of LFS, but you'll have to put up with that. That is forum community.:shrug:

Regards
_______"

I don't have to say it anymore, two good PM's from other users. This is getting easier and easier.

Oh wait, if I don't include their names that must mean I wrote it. I am just waiting for you tools to say that.

[Dethred]

1st rule of Troll-stop: You do not respond to a troll.

2nd rule: You DO NOT respond to a troll.

3rd rule: You do not rise to the bait.

4th rule: If this is your first night at Troll-stop, you have got TO TRY to not respond.

Whose the troll? The guy agreeing with the thread starter or the ones that come in bashing the thread starter's opinion and shouting him down? The irony is so thick I can taste it.

PS: JESUS CHRIST, I just realized a person with a lower post count tried to call the person defending the point of view of the thread starter a TROLL. Everyone that is on his side is *Officially* mentally retarded, there's no other way of explaining it. I wish I could use less crude terminology... but its just so fitting.

[Breizh]

WILL BE VISITING YOUR TOWN SOON
check for times and locations

[BWX232]

.

PS: JESUS CHRIST, I just realized a person with a lower post count tried to call the person defending the point of view of the thread starter a TROLL. .


Hey what does he have to do with it? PS- be careful in thunderstorms.

[maczo]

Mmmmkay...
so what's this entire thread all about?
LFS is unfinished and has flaws? Wow, Sherlock(s), thankyouverymuch. Nobody noticed. Really. Nobody ever mentioned those flaws in countless threads. NOBODY. NEVER. EVER. REALLY.
:pillepall
Have a nice day. :hug:

[Dethred]

Mmmmkay...
so what's this entire thread all about?
LFS is unfinished and has flaws? Wow, Sherlock(s), thankyouverymuch. Nobody noticed. Really. Nobody ever mentioned those flaws in countless threads. NOBODY. NEVER. EVER. REALLY.
:pillepall
Have a nice day. :hug:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you obviously haven't read much of the thread.

[Gunn]

This is just getting silly now. Just going in circles with no way out and it's all the same old stuff from similar previous topics that ended in the same tired old way. I'm putting this thread to bed.