TEST Patch T5 / OPTIONAL / Small Update 1MB

[Scawen]

Hello Racers. :)

This is just a small update you can get, if you want to, and you already have version S or T. It's fully compatible (online and replays) with S and T and contains various fixes and improvements, listed below. It's just the exe and some translation files and lesson files. We are nearly at a fully stable version without bugs, so that's why I'm putting this up for testing, before releasing an updated full version U, which is now significantly better than T.

The biggest change in T5 is a new welcome message that can be set by hosts, displayed while a user is connecting. Hosts please note that your configuration file must be updated because of the new /track command.

VERSION S OR T MUST BE INSTALLED BEFORE THIS PATCH!

To Install :

Place the zip file in your LFS folder.
Right click, and select "extract to here".

Changes in Test Patch T5

Hosts can use a 200 character welcome message from a text file
T5 or later guests will see the message while connecting
E.g. text file named "welcome.txt" contains a message
- then start host with /welcome=welcome.txt

Changed format of /track command in startup - now consistent
Removed /config and /reversed commands
Example of new version : /track=BL1

Added a new command /tracks to specify a list of allowed tracks
E.g. text file named "tracks.txt" contains a track on each line
- then start host with /tracks=tracks.txt

Included updated translations
Included Aston lessons fix for changed objects
FIX : Number entry in tyre setup menu did not work
FIX : Could set wind in hotlapping using /wind command
FIX : Could view other racers ARB and Brake Balance online

Changes in Test Patch T4

FIX : Croatian and Serbian should always be correctly selected.
Added four more characters ro the "Brakes / TC" translation.
FOX / FO8 / BF1 all have their own dashboard colour slider.
Some more small optimisations in car draw (graphics code).
Tiny change in skid creation code to make it safer.

Changes in Test Patch T3

FIX : Croatian should be selected by default on Croatian computer.
Throttle blip on downshift is now allowed again with manual clutch.
Suspension is stronger before it bends, but then bends more quickly.
Race penalties are now sent as stats to LFS World (awaiting update).

Changes in Test Patch T2

FIX : LFS could crash sometimes, when leaving a multiplayer game.
FIX : Downloading Skin message was partially off screen.
FIX : Colour alternation on list of games screen.
Some very small optimisations in graphics code.


PATCH Download (1MB) :

www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_ALPHA_PATCH_S_TO_T5.zip


DEDICATED HOST Download :

- LFSW Online Race Results now shows laps, pit stops, and penalty awarded.
- Handling of the bans.ban file has been changed - See T3 Thread (post 30).
- New /track /welcome and /tracks commands - see above in T5 notes.

www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_T5.zip

[Tooby]

Thanx! :thumb:
Are you working overtime? Keep up the god work.

[AndroidXP]

Geez Scawen. Watch out that you don't die of a caffeine overdose, you crazy workaholic :tired: :p

[nesrulz]

Thanks!

[Citywidemicke]

Thanks devs :thumb:

[K.David]

I updated my LFS from S to T5, there were so many improvements to do it for :)
(waiting patiently for the possibility to put different tyres on all four wheels and to tell the guys at the pit not to hammer my car out:thumb:)

[marcione]

will T5 fix that insim relay problem ?

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=7273

[Scawen]

I think that's something at LFS World end. I will assume that unless Victor tells me otherwise. :)

[MyBoss]

neat, was just going online. Thanks :-)

[nesrulz]

What is this?:shrug:

http://img173.imageshack.us/img173/2416/untitled4px.th.jpg (http://img173.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled4px.jpg)

[IcYX]

lol ! ^^

[zeugnimod]

They even invented a new language. :p :D

[BWX232]

24.. that TV show?

[Hyperactive]

LFS-talk :D

(spam;))

[Scawen]

Ooops, shouldn't have included max_len.txt in there. :D

I've updated the version now - without English.txt and max_len.txt - same link.

You can just delete max_len.txt to make the "24" language disappear. :D

[AndroidXP]

So that's the language you test LFS with? Started directly writing in machine code too? Who needs such primitive things as C++ anyways? :D

[Cue-Ball]

Hosts can use a 200 character welcome message from a text file
T5 or later guests will see the message while connecting
E.g. text file named "welcome.txt" contains a message
- then start host with /welcome=welcome.txt
THANK YOU!!! :thumb:

[eppmaster]

i can´t unlock LFS S2 with t5 patch , and i have a S2 licence

[Scawen]

i can´t unlock LFS S2 with t5 patch , and i have a S2 licenceSorry, I had forgot to update the master server. You should be able to unlock now with T5.

[eppmaster]

ok i waiting thanks!!

[axus]

More? Geez... :tilt: Downloading.

[nesrulz]

Again "10 sec freezes (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=113032#post113032)" problem...:(:schwitz:

Last time in T2 patch.

[marcione]

relay works in T5 .... THX

[Breizh]

Added a new command /tracks to specify a list of allowed tracks
E.g. text file named "tracks.txt" contains a track on each line
- then start host with /tracks=tracks.txt
Assuming it is still only doable by typing out the cars allowed in the 'console'. can you do the same external text-based list you added for tracks, for cars?

[Bob Smith]

Woo, more patches. Now how about avatars back on the forum, eh, Vic? ;) :p

[hackerx]

Assuming it is still only doable by typing out the cars allowed in the 'console'. can you do the same external text-based list you added for tracks, for cars?
It seems to me that it already is exactly like you asked...?

[CrazyICE]

Added a new command /tracks to specify a list of allowed tracks
E.g. text file named "tracks.txt" contains a track on each line
- then start host with /tracks=tracks.txt

will the list be updated if the content of the tracks.txt file changes?
or do i have to restart the server?

hope not that i have to restart the server...would be not so coOL...
live changes would be better, like it was before...
why did u cange that, scawen? can't find a reason for now...please let me
know!

[GP4Flo]

live changes would be better, like it was before...
why did u cange that, scawen? can't find a reason for now...please let me
know!
You can still change the tracks live, just like before with /track. The /tracks command is only an additional feature to limit the available tracks with a textfile.

[CrazyICE]

You can still change the tracks live, just like before with /track. The /tracks command is only an additional feature to limit the available tracks with a textfile.
i mean live changes with the tracks.txt file, not with /track=

[GP4Flo]

And why did you write "like it was before"? :scratchch

[CrazyICE]

cose before the new command /tracks it was enough to just put a tracks.txt into the lfs root folder and thats all...
so the question is, do i need this parameter or doese it work like before also!

[CrazyICE]

And why did you write "like it was before"? :scratchch
is this important to answer my question?
cause i dont kno if the "old" philosopie chaged...

[GP4Flo]

Sorry, I had the impression that you thought the /track command wouldn't exist anymore. I'm probably a bit too tired now to understand complicated forum posts. :shrug: ;)

[sshhaabb]

Hello all

Can one patch up from T to straight T5 or 2,3,4 and then patch

Wondering why come out with so many test patches should there be not one permanant one for all on the main website?

Thanks

[sshhaabb]

Hello all

Can one patch up from T to straight to T5 or 2,3,4 and then 5 patch

Wondering why come out with so many test patches should there be not one permanant one for all on the main website?

Thanks

[CrazyICE]

the testpatches are only for testing purpose...and if scawen is pleased with them, he will release a new patch!
this will now be patch U....

and you can use patch T5 directly...

This is just a small update you can get, if you want to, and you already have version S or T.

[Krane]

Changed format of /track command in startup - now consistent
Removed /config and /reversed commands
Example of new version : /track=BL1

Added a new command /tracks to specify a list of allowed tracks
E.g. text file named "tracks.txt" contains a track on each line
- then start host with /tracks=tracks.txtCould the track select screen be changed to indicate which tracks are not allowed - like the car select screen?


Speaking of tracks, is track voting on your todo ?

[DEVIL 007]

Hi Scawen,

Its not something I must have or I would call it bug but I just tried 1st time for fun racing school mode and SHIFT+U doesnt work there.:scratchch

Sorry for mentionig it here again as I know that word "tired" is not even close how you must feel after all this bug cleaning but is there hard to switch on or code that all cars will have shadows under them? Possibility to set how many shadows under car are displayed?

Keep your great work and have a soon rest and some nice time with your family!!!

[Scawen]

cose before the new command /tracks it was enough to just put a tracks.txt into the lfs root folder and thats all...
so the question is, do i need this parameter or doese it work like before also!It works like before, except that you must add /tracks=tracks.txt to your command line. Then live changes to tracks.txt are allowed.

[ EDIT : this was done to allow different hosts sharing a folder, to have a different list of allowed tracks ]

That is is contrast to the /welcome command. If you change your welcome.txt, you must type /welcome=welcome.txt again.

Why it's different : tracks.txt is read every time someone requests a track change. But welcome.txt is retained in memory.

[Scawen]

Sorry for mentionig it here again as I know that word "tired" is not even close how you must feel after all this bug cleaning but is there hard to switch on or code that all cars will have shadows under them? Possibility to set how many shadows under car are displayed?It's not easy. I don't know why but more than 8 shadows starts to cause crashes and errors. So we only draw shadows under the 8 nearest cars being drawn in the current frame. So I can't do that for version U.

[Scawen]

Could the track select screen be changed to indicate which tracks are not allowed - like the car select screen?No, the guests don't know which tracks are allowed. The host simply rejects the track change request if it's not allowed.

[DEVIL 007]

It's not easy. I don't know why but more than 8 shadows starts to cause crashes and errors. So we only draw shadows under the 8 nearest cars being drawn in the current frame. So I can't do that for version U.

Understood:( .Hope there is something you will be able to do with it in future.
Many thanks for your quick feedback.:thumb:

[Scawen]

Wondering why come out with so many test patches should there be not one permanant one for all on the main website?In an ideal world, I would just do all updates in one day and they would be perfect and without any bugs.

But reality dictates that I can only do a limited amount each day and there will be problems or errors in some of the things I do. So we make optional test patches that are 100% optional, so no-one can complain that there are too many patches. Then when we are happy with the test patches, we can make an official patch, which everyone should get.

Test patches are the way to reduce the number of and improve the quality of official patches.

[EeekiE]

Jesus people moaning at regular updates :pillepall

I think it's great, roll on T6! :D

[MyBoss]

In an ideal world, I would just do all updates in one day and they would be perfect and without any bugs.

But reality dictates that I can only do a limited amount each day and there will be problems or errors in some of the things I do. So we make optional test patches that are 100% optional, so no-one can complain that there are too many patches. Then when we are happy with the test patches, we can make an official patch, which everyone should get.

Test patches are the way to reduce the number of and improve the quality of official patches.


I'm backing you guys 100% on this decition, the worst thing a gamer can experience is to get a patch that has more or the same amount of bugs that the game originally had.

Keep up the good work:nod:

[BWX232]

TEST Patch T5 / OPTIONAL

Maybe these words need to be bigger in the thread title so people will see it? LOL

[WGooden]

Well I have t4 installed and I just noticed this strange thing, when I'm in the tv view I just see the drivers helmet, I've only noticed this in the uf1 aswell.

[Hankstar]

Cheers Scawen :thumbsup: patch on! :)

[alco64]

Hey Scawen. Good job on the new patch and mini patches!
Just 1 thing which isn't that much of a biggy.
You cannot see any skid marks through the small glass window in any of the open wheelers (being FOX, F08 and BF1)
Can become a bit distracting during a race. Not sure if this can be quickly fixed just in the exe but i thought i'd bring it up.

Thanks and keep up the awesome work :)

[avih]

Scawen, haven't done it yet on S/T/1-5, just wanter to let you know that your hard work is greatly appreciated, and that the new patches since S make LFS so much better. Cheers also for the BF1 and beautiful implementation of TC :)

[St4Lk3R]

@WGooden: just press f then you'll see the full car. the "strange thing" you saw is the force view which shows what G-forces happen to your tyres just at the moment.


@Scawen: Thanks for these many new options which make lfs-hosting even more adjustable. But there is one thing I have to complain about anyway: I'm running a few hosts on a linux-rootserver, but they only do all show up on lfsw if I run them out of one folder. this is a bit annoying because I host servers for 2 different teams. If I run the servers from 2 or more folders then only the ones which have been started out of the "first" folder shows up on lfsw. I wonder if this is a server bug or something in my wine / firewall settings.

[BuddhaBing]

Well I have t4 installed and I just noticed this strange thing, when I'm in the tv view I just see the drivers helmet, I've only noticed this in the uf1 aswell.

I'm running T5 and can't duplicate your problem. UF1 without roof on Aston Cadet and my driver model is all there. Are you using a non-default suit texture?

[Scawen]

...I'm running a few hosts on a linux-rootserver, but they only do all show up on lfsw if I run them out of one folder. this is a bit annoying because I host servers for 2 different teams. If I run the servers from 2 or more folders then only the ones which have been started out of the "first" folder shows up on lfsw. I wonder if this is a server bug or something in my wine / firewall settings.I can't understand that from an LFS viewpoint. LFS has no knowledge of which folder it is in or where another LFS may be running on the same computer. So I think it must be your wine or firewall settings. But I can't help with that as I don't know anything about Linux or Wine.

[Scawen]

I'm running T5 and can't duplicate your problem. UF1 without roof on Aston Cadet and my driver model is all there. Are you using a non-default suit texture?No. It's an optimisation. If you go further away the body and steering wheel are not drawn. I exclude LX and MRT from this optimisation. I will add UF to the excluded car models.

[St4Lk3R]

I can't understand that from an LFS viewpoint. LFS has no knowledge of which folder it is in or where another LFS may be running on the same computer. So I think it must be your wine or firewall settings. But I can't help with that as I don't know anything about Linux or Wine.

No problem, was just curious. I'll try setting up the servers whith 2 different users and then we'll see what works. thanks for info anyway.

[Chaos]

@Scawen: Thanks for these many new options which make lfs-hosting even more adjustable. But there is one thing I have to complain about anyway: I'm running a few hosts on a linux-rootserver, but they only do all show up on lfsw if I run them out of one folder. this is a bit annoying because I host servers for 2 different teams. If I run the servers from 2 or more folders then only the ones which have been started out of the "first" folder shows up on lfsw. I wonder if this is a server bug or something in my wine / firewall settings.
I run such servers too and without problems, try looking into the configs and make sure the names and ports are different for each server...

[GP4Flo]

@WGooden: just press f then you'll see the full car. the "strange thing" you saw is the force view which shows what G-forces happen to your tyres just at the moment.
The strange thing WGooden reported isn't the force view. Take a close look at the second screenshot (http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=9004&d=1146186479), there only the helmet but not the driver body is visible.

[atledreier]

No problem, was just curious. I'll try setting up the servers whith 2 different users and then we'll see what works. thanks for info anyway.

I'll try that as well, with my servers. It's could be just a copy/paste of configs that made the servers use the same ports? I het my ports messed up all the time... ;)

[Pablo.CZ]

FIX : Could view other racers ARB and Brake Balance online
Could you disable F9 & F10 for other racers too when online? At least when race? Its "exploit" when some guys checks opponents suspension damage and tyre temps during long straights in league race.. Maybe disable TAB when driving during race/quali too.

[St4Lk3R]

The strange thing WGooden reported isn't the force view. Take a close look at the second screenshot (http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=9004&d=1146186479), there only the helmet but not the driver body is visible.

whoops, did not see that :D
that's a thing made by the blackwood guru! a ghost! I'm scared^^ :pillepall

[St4Lk3R]

I'll try that as well, with my servers. It's could be just a copy/paste of configs that made the servers use the same ports? I het my ports messed up all the time... ;)

No, these servers were using ports 63300, 63400 and 63500. I just found out that I forgot to uncomment the /insim entry in the config of the server which did not show up on lfsw. could that have something to do with it?

[traxxion]

That guru story makes me think of what I had last night. When I was watching a replay to make a screenshot for a news article on our website... I pressed shift+u while the replay was running, then waited for a specific moment (Vince watching left to see where my teammate was) and then pressed pause to make the screenshot. But as soon as I pressed p, the cars disappeared, everytime I tried! :scratchch
Now when I used a non shift-u view to wait for that moment, pressed p and then shift-u, the cars would stay visible.
I can't remember seeing this before, so I thought it might have something to do with one of the latest patches...
It was pretty late last night so I didnt feel like investigating any further, and I can't try this again before coming sunday so maybe someone else could try if he gets the same thing..?


For those interested, here's the image: http://www.1stracing.nl/images/stories/nllfs7.jpg

[vtx]

I run such servers too and without problems, try looking into the configs and make sure the names and ports are different for each server...

Could you show me your wine config and wine startup options? I have the problem that the server lags about every 10 secs. I tried everything I could think of, even tried it on another server but the problem remains.

[axus]

No. It's an optimisation. If you go further away the body and steering wheel are not drawn. I exclude LX and MRT from this optimisation. I will add UF to the excluded car models.

Should the RA not be on that list also?

[andy_bonjon]

Hey Scawen. Good job on the new patch and mini patches!
Just 1 thing which isn't that much of a biggy.
You cannot see any skid marks through the small glass window in any of the open wheelers (being FOX, F08 and BF1)
Can become a bit distracting during a race. Not sure if this can be quickly fixed just in the exe but i thought i'd bring it up.

Thanks and keep up the awesome work :)

Yeah i just noticed this too! Usually im looking much further ahead for it to bother me but now i know about it i cant help staring through the little piece of glass!! :D

[Scawen]

Should the RA not be on that list also?OK then.

Done on : LX, UF, RA and MRT5... these are the cars where the driver body can be quite visible.

On other cars where driver is concealed, it's a useful saving not to draw the driver body and steering wheel if you're a bit far away.

[Honey]

Scawen, i'm sorry to bother but may i ask if fixing the "invisible car" bug is planned for patch U?
is just to know, i understand you have much pressure right now ;)

[noemfie]

Probably not the right place to ask , but the 23 client limit , is it something the devs are working on to try and increase or is it just not possible atm ?

[axus]

Probably not the right place to ask , but the 23 client limit , is it something the devs are working on to try and increase or is it just not possible atm ?

Yeah, we are starting up a league in South Africa... 20 racers is not quite enough and we cannot run more than one event because of the SARL flag under which the league is to be run. If this is not a possible change for the moment (and I presume it isn't because it may cause compatibility issues with S-T5 patches), we are looking at other solutions to get more racers in one league or running multiple leagues.

[BWX232]

I was in the shift+U view taking some screenshots at AS north.. and while moving the camera around all kinds of these were appearing/disappearing in and out of view.. quite randomly it seemed actually.. buildings in the distance- things around the track, etc..

Could there be a setting to either use or NOT use all these graphics speed-up optimizations that make things disappear? When getting 100 to 200 FPS, I would like the option to be able to render everything- especially for screenshots.

I could take some screenshots of what I saw if needed.

[St4Lk3R]

Could there be a setting to either use or NOT use all these graphics speed-up optimizations that make things disappear? When getting 100 to 200 FPS, I would like the option to be able to render everything- especially for screenshots.

If you have that much fps, simply increase the level of all your "graphics options"-sliders :D

[Honey]

Probably not the right place to ask , but the 23 client limit , is it something the devs are working on to try and increase or is it just not possible atm ?
CAN YOU UNDERSTAND ANY OF THE WORD I'VE WRITTEN???????!!!!!
what this bug -> http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=115379#post115379 has to do with cilent limit????????!!!!

[DEVIL 007]

If you have that much fps, simply increase the level of all your "graphics options"-sliders :D

I am sorry for saying that but you are an idi***:D :x .

This is automatic optimization and you cant switch it on/off or set how far you see the body or not.

Scawen,
with so many powerfull GPU`s today why there is necessary to have such a optimizations?Even like GF6600 or ATI9600 wouldnt have problems to draw a few polygons more.My GF6600 can even handle 4xAA+16AF@1024*768 without single FPS drop in LFS(I have min 45-50FPs at start and around 80-200FPS during race).

Or could we have at least some option to turn on/off this optimizations?I bet a lot of guys would like to have as much as possible vidible if the power is in theirs PC`s.

[axus]

CAN YOU UNDERSTAND ANY OF THE WORD I'VE WRITTEN???????!!!!!
what this bug -> http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=115379#post115379 has to do with cilent limit????????!!!!

Errr... I don't think noemfie was refering to your comment. Relax.

[Krane]

Speaking of optimizations, can you also disable the wheel disappearing, or alternatively put it as last resort to gain more FPS. I find it highly distracting when it goes away.

[Honey]

Errr... I don't think noemfie was refering to your comment. Relax.
i apologise, but the question period of his post was a new line and seemed a statementent rather than a feature request, it completely changed the sense of the post, i pologise anyway :)

[hijacker(GR)]

Hi all,
i installed the first version of patch S.Now i must install all these patches T1,T2,T3,T4....or only the new T5?Help pls :)

[Scawen]

Scawen, i'm sorry to bother but may i ask if fixing the "invisible car" bug is planned for patch U?
is just to know, i understand you have much pressure right now ;)No, that is some strange problem with your ISP, not sending your UDP position packets to the host. Nothing I can do about that without some major changes.

[Blackout]

Hi all,
i installed the first version of patch S.Now i must install all these patches T1,T2,T3,T4....or only the new T5?Help pls :)

Only the latest.

[Scawen]

Probably not the right place to ask , but the 23 client limit , is it something the devs are working on to try and increase or is it just not possible atm ?I expect to increase it in future but it is a big change, not just a number.

[Scawen]

Speaking of optimizations, can you also disable the wheel disappearing, or alternatively put it as last resort to gain more FPS. I find it highly distracting when it goes away.Please can you give an example? The idea of the disappearing wheel is that it only disappears when you can't see it anyway.

[Scawen]

Or could we have at least some option to turn on/off this optimizations?I bet a lot of guys would like to have as much as possible vidible if the power is in theirs PC`s.As I said in my above post. One of the main things about graphics engines is, not drawing things that you can't see. There are loads of optimisations in LFS and that's why it has a good FPS. We don't actually draw all objects on the other side of the track, which are hidden behind billboards and mountains, for example. And I don't mind how good your graphics card is, the driver bodies and steering wheels have their polygons sent to the card all the time, they aren't using hardware vertex shading (though the wheels *should* - they don't - and the driver can never, as they are flexible, like flags). So they are a significant slowdown at the start grid and this causes problems.

Please give me the examples, of where you are seeing disappearing bodies, anyway. I have tried to make them only disappear when you can't see them anyway. If I have failed, you should be showing me where I have failed, not just ask me to remove the optimisation. You really can't see the driver's body in a BF1 unless you are near and above the car, so why draw it?

[DEVIL 007]

As I said in my above post. One of the main things about graphics engines is, not drawing things that you can't see. There are loads of optimisations in LFS and that's why it has a good FPS. We don't actually draw all objects on the other side of the track, which are hidden behind billboards and mountains, for example. And I don't mind how good your graphics card is, the driver bodies and steering wheels have their polygons sent to the card all the time, they aren't using hardware vertex shading (though the wheels *should* - they don't - and the driver can never, as they are flexible, like flags). So they are a significant slowdown at the start grid and this causes problems.

Please give me the examples, of where you are seeing disappearing bodies, anyway. I have tried to make them only disappear when you can't see them anyway. If I have failed, you should be showing me where I have failed, not just ask me to remove the optimisation. You really can't see the driver's body in a BF1 unless you are near and above the car, so why draw it?

I dont consider it very important so please focus on more important things and bug cleaning.I can for sure leave without some graphics eye candy:D .

I understand that in normal 3d engine are used a lot of optimizations and that LFS doesnt draw everything on the apposite side of the track for example.

I think there will be soon time for major 3d engine upgrade to use more power of our PC`s....but let :x my mouth I know you much better Scawen then me:).

[Hyperactive]

Please can you give an example? The idea of the disappearing wheel is that it only disappears when you can't see it anyway.

This is not directly related to this, but:

Whatever the graphics options in LFS the wheels always get octagonal: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=5995

Could it be set that when using the maximum settings in LFS it would draw the wheels always rounded, and never octagonal? So that the distance couldn't affect their shape at all?

[BWX232]

If you have that much fps, simply increase the level of all your "graphics options"-sliders :D
Oh yes they are, LOL... not a big thing really.. it can wait.

[Honey]

No, that is some strange problem with your ISP, not sending your UDP position packets to the host. Nothing I can do about that without some major changes.
i'm fine if you not plan to fix it for the near future (and thanks for answering me), but i cannot accept your statement that it's my ISP problem, it not happens only to me, also to people from other countries/ISP...if it's the isp, why exiting lfs and restarting solves the problem? and why it never happened till S2K and started since S2L? why happen also with other isp?, why other udp apps continue working fine without a glitch?
please do not jump at conclusions: if i'm losing time writing here, it's because i already verified it's an lfs problem...

[Scawen]

please do not jump at conclusions: if i'm losing time writing here, it's because i already verified it's an lfs problem...LFS hasn't changed in this area.

As I've said before, every time there is a new patch, there are a few people claiming that the patch has caused them some new network problems. Usually the problem goes away miraculously a few weeks later.

It's just a coincidence. Let's say 1 in 100 people with an internet connection, is having a problem with it, at any time. Now a new patch comes out and 10,000 people try it. 100 of them will experience connection problems at exactly that time, and they may blame it on the patch.

[GP4Flo]

I think there will be soon time for major 3d engine upgrade to use more power of our PC`s....but let :x my mouth I know you much better Scawen. Why do you want the 3D engine to use more of your PC's power? I think it's great how good the LFS graphic engine runs even on old PCs. Just compare S2 with the first demo test 0.04k. The current version runs a lot faster despite increased track and car details. I think that's a great archievment.

No, that is some strange problem with your ISP, not sending your UDP position packets to the host. Nothing I can do about that without some major changes.@ Honey: What about CTRL-T, does this help?

[Vykos69]

Ahh, I'm with DEVIL there, but time will tell, and at one time, a DX9 engine is as uptodate as the current lfs-gfx-engine was last year ;)

[afastest]

i'm fine if you not plan to fix it for the near future (and thanks for answering me), but i cannot accept your statement that it's my ISP problem, it not happens only to me, also to people from other countries/ISP...if it's the isp, why exiting lfs and restarting solves the problem? and why it never happened till S2K and started since S2L? why happen also with other isp?, why other udp apps continue working fine without a glitch?
please do not jump at conclusions: if i'm losing time writing here, it's because i already verified it's an lfs problem...

The only time I had similiar problems was when I had uploads running or heavy packet loss.

Try to ping the host IP when you have that kind of bug. Don't leave the server or track, minimize LFS and run command line. Then ping the host for example one hundred times. On windows it is ping -n 100 IP. Then you can go back to LFS and play and let the pinging run. Later see what ping is and how much there is packet loss, if any.

I know you said restarting helps, but you can still try that just to see what kind of ping you will be getting.

I use netlimiter to get host IP, and I can also see traffic graphs in it from LFS.

[Honey]

LFS hasn't changed in this area.

As I've said before, every time there is a new patch, there are a few people claiming that the patch has caused them some new network problems. Usually the problem goes away miraculously a few weeks later.

It's just a coincidence. Let's say 1 in 100 people with an internet connection, is having a problem with it, at any time. Now a new patch comes out and 10,000 people try it. 100 of them will experience connection problems at exactly that time, and they may blame it on the patch.
i know what you mean, but i'm not such kind of person and i try solve anything by myself first...as i said it's many month i'm experiencing this problem, there is also an old thread in the bug section related to this, as you can quickly verify here -> http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=115379#post115379 (and the very next reply) an not the only one, it's an hard to recognize bug and it comes at least from patch L.

so fix the very urgent things and take the deserved rest, but please do not forget this bug, because people who experence this, simply don't figure it out and thinks that every s2 licensed racer is a stupid wrecker because everyone's ramming at him.

[DEVIL 007]

Why do you want the 3D engine to use more of your PC's power? I think it's great how good the LFS graphic engine runs even on old PCs. Just compare S2 with the first demo test 0.04k. The current version runs a lot faster despite increased track and car details. I think that's a great archievment.


Hi GP4Flo,
You might know that I am in LFS very,very long time and went thru all these changes to the LFS so there is no place to "teach" me ;).

And why not use more if there is such a possibility?That was a bit "stupid" question.Sorry I dont know better word in english so please dont take is as something bad.

The current LFS to be honest doesnt stress much current or even some years old graphic cards really much.I had same FPS on ATI8500 as on the current GF6600(now low end card) except I am now able to use 4xAA+16AF without penalty to FPS drop.

At the end I have to say that LFS has really nice graphic and I am enjoying it but sometimes I would like use more...better textures(for example Don`s and Kidcodeas`s hires sky packs)etc.

Its not that I am negative about current LFS 3d engine.

[xaotik]

i know what you mean, but i'm not such kind of person and i try solve anything by myself first...as i said it's many month i'm experiencing this problem, there is also an old thread in the bug section related to this, as you can quickly verify here -> http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=115379#post115379 (and the very next reply) an not the only one, it's an hard to recognize bug and it comes at least from patch L.

Have you followed the threads that avih had posted about similar problems?

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=80487#post80487 (the summary line on this)

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=76763

I had the same problem you mention in the past on specific servers, one that I recall was on an italian GT-only server. Do you get it on all servers at any time? Did you turn on network debug to see if there's something there?

[Honey]

@ Honey: What about CTRL-T, does this help?
never tried: what's that supposed to do?
(i will try it anyway the next time it happens)

The only time I had similiar problems was when I had uploads running or heavy packet loss.

Try to ping the host IP when you have that kind of bug. Don't leave the server or track, minimize LFS and run command line. Then ping the host for example one hundred times. On windows it is ping -n 100 IP. Then you can go back to LFS and play and let the pinging run. Later see what ping is and how much there is packet loss, if any.

I know you said restarting helps, but you can still try that just to see what kind of ping you will be getting.

I use netlimiter to get host IP, and I can also see traffic graphs in it from LFS.
last summer when most was on holidays (and nothing on my schedule) at work i got a clean pc -> it happened again, then i programmed the company routers to guarrantee such pc 100Mb bandwidth ...-> it happened again and from router logs i didnt see any packet from such pc, then -> i installed ethereal on such pc and the next time the bug showed, ethereal logs (according to a collegue of mine who is a geek for such application) revealed that no udp packets where sent by lfs.

so the problem is either lfs alone or some sort of stack overflow lfs causes to windows driver.

tests at work were done with windows xp sp2, but at home i experienced it also with windows xp sp1, never tried other windows flavours

[DEVIL 007]

Ahh, I'm with DEVIL there, but time will tell, and at one time, a DX9 engine is as uptodate as the current lfs-gfx-engine was last year ;)
I cant bealive me eyes Vykos:D .

Sorry I have to say always soemthing more.Its georgeous achievement how LFS looks with current 3d engine even its only DX8 one.
The thing is world is slowly moving with development of the upcoming titles to DX10 and we still sitting with DX8 and DX9 is almost at the end of his life.I dont blame Scawen for this as I said I am in LFS long time and I have no words for what was Scawen able to do.Its great.

I have just in my mind that in Vista there will be only DX9 support (will we have even DX8? support)thru software layer for games(that what is Micorsoft claiming) and most of us will move to that system even we dont want(I just still hope that Vista will be somethinbg like WindowsMe and will disaaper quickly as it was a big mistake).
Hard to say how the software DX9 layer support will be effective for games or not.Its just something to consider as well;).

I dont see too deep into 3D LFS engine but as Scawen give some info from time to time here in forum there could be moved more work to GPU and saving CPU cycles thus increasing FPS,eye candy but I know its a "run for a long time".

[afastest]

never tried: what's that supposed to do?
(i will try it anyway the next time it happens)


last summer when most was on holidays (and nothing on my schedule) at work i got a clean pc -> it happened again, then i programmed the company routers to guarrantee such pc 100Mb bandwidth ...-> it happened again and from router logs i didnt see any packet from such pc, then -> i installed ethereal on such pc and the next time the bug showed, ethereal logs (according to a collegue of mine who is a geek for such application) revealed that no udp packets where sent by lfs.

so the problem is either lfs alone or some sort of stack overflow lfs causes to windows driver.

tests at work were done with windows xp sp2, but at home i experienced it also with windows xp sp1, never tried other windows flavours

That is very good you tested it thoroughly. Often people report bugs before proper testing, OC'ed, faulty hardware, bad connection and what not. This is not the case with you here, but one has to state these things from the beginning so Scawen knows what kind of fault he is dealing with. Or maybe you did it already and I missed it.

[DEVIL 007]

revealed that no udp packets where sent by lfs.
so the problem is either lfs alone or some sort of stack overflow lfs causes to windows driver.


You mean LFS client didnt send UDP packets or server part?
If I understood that was test made on LAN?

[afastest]

That clearly sounds like the client, LFS, didn't send them.

[Honey]

That is very good you tested it thoroughly. Often people report bugs before proper testing, OC'ed, faulty hardware, bad connection and what not. This is not the case with you here, but one has to state these things from the beginning so Scawen knows what kind of fault he is dealing with. Or maybe you did it already and I missed it.
i'm in the "ict" area of my company and you cannot believe the absurd stories and the most subtle problems that come out everyday.
my home isp has not the best performance, but is one of the most reliable (in the past used to work at home and had embedded net prototypes working 24/7 flawlessly with hundreds of connections), moreover my connection is "interleaved" and not "fast" so delivery of packets is supposed to be "guarranteed".

i remember i've reported this bug on an already started thread, but it died without conlusions iirc, i always assumed scawen put that on his "to-fix list"

[DEVIL 007]

i'm fine if you not plan to fix it for the near future (and thanks for answering me), but i cannot accept your statement that it's my ISP problem, it not happens only to me, also to people from other countries/ISP...if it's the isp, why happen also with other isp?, why other udp apps continue working fine without a glitch?
please do not jump at conclusions: if i'm losing time writing here, it's because i already verified it's an lfs problem...

With your experiencies probably you should know that all ISP sometimes shaping UPD packets very lot.If there is too much on network of UDP they can automaticly shape it down.Its really easy.
And you should know that if UPD packet is lost you never get the same one again as its possible with TCP but just the next one.

There are always some priorities on ISP`s network and to be honest its not the home user.

[afastest]

i remember i've reported this bug on an already started thread, but it died without conlusions iirc, i always assumed scawen put that on his "to-fix list"
Yes, I meant telling about testing in the bebinning, especially that "UDP packets not sent" thing. Not just the bug.

[CrazyICE]

I cant bealive me eyes Vykos:D .

Sorry I have to say always soemthing more.Its georgeous achievement how LFS looks with current 3d engine even its only DX8 one.
The thing is world is slowly moving with development of the upcoming titles to DX10 and we still sitting with DX8 and DX9 is almost at the end of his life.I dont blame Scawen for this as I said I am in LFS long time and I have no words for what was Scawen able to do.Its great.

I have just in my mind that in Vista there will be only DX9 support (will we have even DX8? support)thru software layer for games(that what is Micorsoft claiming) and most of us will move to that system even we dont want(I just still hope that Vista will be somethinbg like WindowsMe and will disaaper quickly as it was a big mistake).
Hard to say how the software DX9 layer support will be effective for games or not.Its just something to consider as well;).

I dont see too deep into 3D LFS engine but as Scawen give some info from time to time here in forum there could be moved more work to GPU and saving CPU cycles thus increasing FPS,eye candy but I know its a "run for a long time".
i fully agree with that, except, that windows vista should be the reason,
why changing to DX9 or higher... :)

but imagine, what LFS could look like, if using DX9 or higer (in future of
course)...
the way, scawen is coding is really great, cause if u compare new games
to the LFS graphics, I only can say, that LFS look better sometimes or
even the same (except som special DX9 things)....
take rFactor...me likes LFS graphics more...

so, keep on the great work u are doing, and u'll never get rid of me,
SCAVIER :)

lfs is the most exciting, thrilling, and for me, emotional software, which
exists...
emotional, because I like the way SCAVIER are doing....love that... :thumb:

[DEVIL 007]

i'm in the "ict" area of my company and you cannot believe the absurd stories and the most subtle problems that come out everyday.

I have really funny one and unbeliveable story.

There was a connection(not internet one) provided to one customer and after a time there was always connection drop but always coming back in like 1-5 minutes later always same time late in the afternoon.
Everything was remotely checked and even engineer came onto place to check all the equipment.Everything was fine even to be sure he replaced some equipment but the problem was still there.The people were clue less so they sent engineer to that place at the time of the failure to see what the hell is going on.

You will not bealive what happed.The engineer was sitting in the room right next to the equipment looking at all the LEDs and at the time of failure came a cleaning lady,asked nicely that she has to do something and put off the the equipment power plug and insert vacuum cleaner power plug:eek: .He was shocked.
Its real true life story:D .

Sorry enough of my low quality spam :)

[Honey]

You mean LFS client didnt send UDP packets or server part?
If I understood that was test made on LAN?
the very first on internet, the other on lan
about server or client, you arise a dubt in me, i always assumed it was the client, but i don't remeber my collegue specifically said it was the client, next week i will return to work and ask him if he remembers

[DEVIL 007]

the very first on internet, the other on lan
about server or client, you arise a dubt in me, i always assumed it was the client, but i don't remeber my collegue specifically said it was the client, next week i will return to work and ask him if he remembers
The internet is not very reliable way to make such a tests.The LAN is better way to go if you are 100 percent sure how the LAN network is configured.

Hope I am not mistaken but both LFS client and server should send UPD packets or is it only server side who sent UDP`s about car positions?:scratchch

[Krane]

Please can you give an example? The idea of the disappearing wheel is that it only disappears when you can't see it anyway.
The 10ish FPS is because of the capturing, without it FPS is (and was) ~25.


Edit: doggoned. I meant steering wheel not the tire wheels. Gotta remember to read my posts in the mindset of others :doh:

[GP4Flo]

Hi GP4Flo,
You might know that I am in LFS very,very long time and went thru all these changes to the LFS so there is no place to "teach" me ;).

And why not use more if there is such a possibility?That was a bit "stupid" question.Sorry I dont know better word in english so please dont take is as something bad.

The current LFS to be honest doesnt stress much current or even some years old graphic cards really much.I had same FPS on ATI8500 as on the current GF6600(now low end card) except I am now able to use 4xAA+16AF without penalty to FPS drop.

At the end I have to say that LFS has really nice graphic and I am enjoying it but sometimes I would like use more...better textures(for example Don`s and Kidcodeas`s hires sky packs)etc.

Its not that I am negative about current LFS 3d engine. Yeah, I have nothing against adding new features to the LFS engine. What I wanted to say is, that I don't think removing optimizations just for the sake of it would be any good.

[DEVIL 007]

Yeah, I have nothing against adding new features to the LFS engine. What I wanted to say is, that I don't think removing optimizations just for the sake of it would be any good.

OK....my bad.I didnt mean to removing the optimizations but to be able to choose myself if I want it or not. Just a ON/OFF button:thumb:

[Honey]

With your experiencies probably you should know that all ISP sometimes shaping UPD packets very lot.If there is too much on network of UDP they can automaticly shape it down.Its really easy.
And you should know that if UPD packet is lost you never get the same one again as its possible with TCP but just the next one.

There are always some priorities on ISP`s network and to be honest its not the home user.
i understand, and if that maybe true for my home isp, but for my company isp the internet connection has a minimum bw guarranteed and i mad sure the first test was on our "high priority" gateway so its unlikely that bw saturated at anytime (also holiday time) because on very first test i didnt reserved bw only for lfs.
let's assume some udp loss occurs, for any reason, as soon any lfs packet succeed to reach destination, then car position is updated and this happens every day when you see those guys that lag as a hell...there is huge packet loss, but a new packet updates car position.

the bug i'm talking about make lfs simply stop sending packet "forever"...it is "similar" to the bug that surely happened to any of us, when a server suddenlly lags every car forever until server restart...whilst this now rarely happens, it still happens and it encourages me to believe that is a very subtle problem that still is present either in server and client

[CrazyICE]

OK....my bad.I didnt mean to removing the optimizations but to be able to choose myself if I want it or not. Just a ON/OFF button:thumb:
well, but if u can't see it, why not hiding it :)
i mean, what is the advantage of displaying a thing which is not visible :)
ok, to know, that the PC is great enough and as a kind of benchmak, but
in fact, it's useless :)

[Scawen]

The 10ish FPS is because of the capturing, without it FPS is (and was) ~25.


Edit: doggoned. I meant steering wheel not the tire wheels. Gotta remember to read my posts in the mindset of others :doh:Thanks for the video and mprs. I thought you meant the steering wheel anyway.

I had just never heard that it could vanish, on your own car, due to the dynamic LOD. I will fix that for today's T6 patch.

[ebola]

i understand, and if that maybe true for my home isp, but for my company isp the internet connection has a minimum bw guarranteed and i mad sure the first test was on our "high priority" gateway so its unlikely that bw saturated at anytime (also holiday time) because on very first test i didnt reserved bw only for lfs.
let's assume some udp loss occurs, for any reason, as soon any lfs packet succeed to reach destination, then car position is updated and this happens every day when you see those guys that lag as a hell...there is huge packet loss, but a new packet updates car position.

the bug i'm talking about make lfs simply stop sending packet "forever"...it is "similar" to the bug that surely happened to any of us, when a server suddenlly lags every car forever until server restart...whilst this now rarely happens, it still happens and it encourages me to believe that is a very subtle problem that still is present either in server and client


The fact you can reproduce this problem on two PC's in different locations with differing internet connections and yet I do not see any other person reporting this bug makes me very suspicious.

I have tried running Ethereal with LFS running and I can see lots UDP packets coming and going. Personally I would have thought it was a configuration issue on those machines, maybe some software or registry edit or something along those lines.

[GAS-Hugo]

...I do not see any other person reporting this bug makes me very suspicious...
I have it too, sometimes. And it´s not the new F1-Patch, because i had it before as well.

[detail]

Wait-wait-wait-wait-wait, please, with the final patch!!! I was offline 3 days, and my translation update will be soon!

[Scawen]

No problem Detail. I expect to construct version U in the morning.

Version T6 is out now, so I will close this thread.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=116823#post116823