Real Sports Cars... When

[coskun_bulent]

Is there any idea about when we are going to be able to see real sports cars in LSF? Like Lamborghini Murcielago, Aston Martin DB9, Mercedes SLR, Mercedes SL, Corvette C5, Ferrari F430 or any other kinds of cars... I know that there is a licence problem. But I really want to see these cars in LFS. For example each of the car can be sold separately...

[danowat]

Seeing as we have just got our 3rd officially licensed car, who knows.

TBH would it make LFS any better?, what would adding a Ferrari actually do to the sim, what more would it offer that we dont already have?, I am talking in terms of actual racing and physics simulation, not the addition of "car porn".

Dan,

[KlausAdam]

Yes, who knows...
And is that really what we want? You should think of the additional licence fee for that kind of cars. Everything discussed before...

What I'm wondering about is, when will we see a real FXO, RB4 or FZ50 on the streets of our cities? That would be really cool...

[Vain]

What I'm wondering about is, when will we see a real FXO, RB4 or FZ50 on the streets of our cities? That would be really cool...I wouldn't touch the FZ50 - it's just plain deadly. Any other car of it's class is as tame as an UF1 compared to the BF1.

Vain

[KlausAdam]

You don't need to push to the limit in real life :D

But as usual, most of us wouldn't have the money to drive even one time such a car. That's why we have to drive a sim and dream of it... :D

[coskun_bulent]

Of course simulation is the most important issue in LSF. But Racing with real cars cannot be passed over. I just wondered whether there is a plan about it.

[der butz]

please read the Improvement Suggestions (http://www.lfsforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8) , there you may see all wanted improvements plus a thread about what will be in further versions and what is unlikely to be in.

Edit: BTW, racing LFS is NOT REAL racing and will never be. real life has still better feedback ;-)

[MyBoss]

tbh I don't think we will se any real cars (maybe a few) before the developers are 100% happy with LFS, after S3 is out and after some patches.

[tristancliffe]

Just a small point - The Mercs and Astons aren't, technically, sports cars, but grand touring cars (i.e. for long distance travel). I'd argue the Corvette isn't a sports car but a skip, but that's something I'm doubting Americans would agree with me on.

[tinvek]

I'd argue the Corvette isn't a sports car but a skip,


roflmao:) :)

[deggis]

You didn't know we already have one? http://www.raceabout.fi/index_3.html

[Greboth]

would b good idea to have real cars in lfs but im happy with the cars we have now. I mean we have the fz50 which is a porsche 911, Lx's are caterams etc so even though they might not be called by the names they have got IRL. Looks might be slightly different etc but we basically have real cars in LFS. Hope you followed wat im tryin to say lol.

[Sternendaal]

No. Would be better to stick to the fictional ones,those Porsche's are already in 258 other games,so no thanks.

[SamH]

I'd argue the Corvette isn't a sports car but a skip, but that's something I'm doubting Americans would agree with me on.
I'd concur, frankly. Most Americans I know probably would too, in their heart of hearts. It's just too "available", really.

Now.. a Dodge Viper, on the other hand.. that I would argue is a sports car. You could argue the same "skip" but it doesn't entirely hold true, and there's just something special about it. It's rarer than the 'vette and causes spontaneous drooling on sight.

I had the cash to buy an absolutely gorgeous Viper at one time (an instant in time, never to be repeated), but spent the money on a new roof and a Mitsubishi Montero instead. Damn.

[letdown427]

I'd argue the Corvette isn't a sports car but a skip

You know what? Suddenly, I like you more :thumb::razz:

[MyBoss]

whats a skip?

[danowat]

http://homepages.wyenet.co.uk/gdixon/skip.jpg

[ErockCTS]

vettes are readily available here in the states ... hell i got one siting in the garage next to my cadi cts haha ... bit just because it sells well and peformes well doesnt mean its a "skip" althou it does kinda stink when i see so many of em ... but hey new zo6 is kickin everyones tails :) haha

[danowat]

Trouble is with the vette, and pretty much every other "yank-tank" is the lack of finesse and general "barn-door" engineering that is employed.

The american philosophy is, chuck a huge engine in, and thats that, sod the handling.

Its certainly better than it used to be, heck the new vette can actually go round corners ;)

Dan,

[Michael Denham]

Wow, this quickly turned into a 'lets bash Americans' thread. The English seem to have such an attitude of superiority when it comes to cars, it's not even funny. :) Not exactly an endearing quality....

[danowat]

Not bashing Americans, just their cars, big difference my friend ;).

As for the Brits having a superior attitude to cars, its a bit difficult to have that when we have little or no car industry to speak off.

Dan,

[Michael Denham]

As for the Brits having a superior attitude to cars, its a bit difficult to have that when we have little or no car industry to speak off.

Yet somehow it still happens ;) I think part of it is a different set of goals. If American cars don't handle like the British track-day specials, they're crap by British standards. But for Americans, they're just right, because they mostly don't drive on twisty B-roads and tracks, and they suit the type of driving they do. As for build quality, well, I can't defend that, but I guess that's how they get their prices so low ;)

[BWX232]

Z06 is the best bang for buck sports car in the world and it handles just fine I am sure. Most of you saps would be happy to drive one.

[Leprekaun]

Well, personally, I think that if Ferraris, Porsches and Lamborghinis were going to be added to the game, it would make the game a lot better, but only in one sense, if the car manufacturers would have some sort of insight for the LFS devs so that the the virtual machine handles just like the real car and this partnership could also make it so that the LFS devs can use authentic sounds for these cars. Look, don't get me wrong here, LFS is my fav sim and I think is the most realistic driving game yet, but having real cars and hopefully, real tracks would make the game a lot better :). Now, I know that one of you guys said that you'd like to see a real FZ50, well, same here :), but probably for the FZR. An idea which occured to me is that if you're rich enough, buy a GT 550 Maranello, and then reshape the body to look like the FZR. Would be very cool, but extremely, costly :).

[Gzii]

GT 40 ? I like Corvettes, Mustangs etc. (many old american cars) And if they are not the fastests in curves (bends ? Don't know the word), I think they are sport cars too.

I'm happy with the cars that are in LFS. :)

[Blowtus]

does different labels on the cars in the selection screen really make so much difference? The cars we have are already far more real than any of the games that have the right labels...

[Vain]

Yes, there is a difference.

Vain

[zeugnimod]

And if they are not the fastests in curves (bends ? Don't know the word)

Corners. :D I think, you can say every of the 3 words.


Im not too keen on having more real cars, too.

[Hallen]

Trouble is with the vette, and pretty much every other "yank-tank" is the lack of finesse and general "barn-door" engineering that is employed.

The american philosophy is, chuck a huge engine in, and thats that, sod the handling.

Its certainly better than it used to be, heck the new vette can actually go round corners ;)

Dan,

Tsk Tsk, Although I agree with you to a degree, I am not a fan of American big iron, I would disagree about the Vette. It is a sports car... it just happens to have a big engine too. The thing turns like it is on rails... yes, it is an old cliche' but it is true. The brakes are outstanding, the steering is precise. Sure, it pushes (understeers) a bit like all street cars, but that can be fixed easily. It is a car that can be turned into a race car with just a roll cage and gutting of the interior.

Why do you think there are so many out there? It looks great, it is quick, and the price is not outrageous. Normal people can own them.

The fit and finish of the interior has always been sub-standard, and it is noisy, but it goes like the proverbial bat out of hell.

It is just a slightly different philosophy: Instead of super high reving, small turbocharged engines, the Vette uses a big engine with massive torque running at (relatively) lower RPMs. I drive a BMW, the power does not really kick in until you are over 3000 RPM. In the Vette, you get a real, visceral kick in the ass as soon as you romp on the loud pedal. It is very satisfying. When the only fun a lot of Americans can experience is their daily fling up the on-ramp to the slow moving freeway, then that little kick in the ass is really worth it.

The Z06 is pretty much a inexpensive super car. It is that good.

Back on-topic: I don't really feel as much of a need for real cars in LFS as I used to. I would much more prefer a wider variety of race cars, like LMP1 & LMP2 prototypes. Widen the classes a bit with more example cars, and keep them competitive. That will lead to the best overall racing. The FZ50 is basically a Porsche knock-off, and I would like to see something like a BMW knock-off, but I don't need the real car design.

[Hallen]

Not bashing Americans, just their cars, big difference my friend ;).

As for the Brits having a superior attitude to cars, its a bit difficult to have that when we have little or no car industry to speak off.

Dan,

lol, and that is a sad thing considering the rich racing history.

If you have ever driven here in America, you would know why things are the way they are. I have driven across this great land a number of times. There are roads of all types, but the fact is, there is a long, long way between stops in some places. I have driven for hours without seeing a town and in some cases, another car. I used to commute once a month 3/4 of the way across the state of Oregon. That is almost like driving across Germany. This kind of trip is common here.

[BWX232]

Personally I would take a Subaru WRX STi before a Corvette JUST because of where I live ... plus I love little turbo charged screaming AWD monsters. A few mods and it would be almost as fast too.

[tristancliffe]

The English seem to have such an attitude of superiority when it comes to cars

Yes, and there's a reason. America is still in the 1920's with car and engine design. Mmmm, pushrods and leaf springs. I know, lets call this car the sports version...

P.S. I know it's not so bad now, you're probably in the 1970's of European car design. But come on, America has yet to produce half a dozen good sports cars. The Newest 'vette is suposedly the best yet, and it has a time on Nurburgring to prove it. But optimising a car for the Nurburgring doesn't actually means is necessarily any good in real life. I'd bet a Mazda 787B is quicker round it, but I'd also bet it's utterly useless on an open public road. So don't use the 'it's good round a track' argument here, it cuts no mustard with me. When America makes a good chassis/engine/body I'll be the first to admit it.

[GianniC]

To answer on the topic question:

I hope never.
I hope the dev's keep developing cars like the RB4,... cars who're fictional. That's a thing which makes LFS just so... LFS! So special!

[BWX232]

Yes, and there's a reason. America is still in the 1920's with car and engine design. Mmmm, pushrods and leaf springs. I know, lets call this car the sports version...

P.S. I know it's not so bad now, you're probably in the 1970's of European car design. But come on, America has yet to produce half a dozen good sports cars. The Newest 'vette is suposedly the best yet, and it has a time on Nurburgring to prove it. But optimising a car for the Nurburgring doesn't actually means is necessarily any good in real life. I'd bet a Mazda 787B is quicker round it, but I'd also bet it's utterly useless on an open public road. So don't use the 'it's good round a track' argument here, it cuts no mustard with me. When America makes a good chassis/engine/body I'll be the first to admit it.


Engine
7.0 LS7 V8 SFI (SAE-certified 505 hp @ 6300 rpm, 470 lb.-ft. @ 4800 rpm)
Dry Sump Oil System <-- EDIT-- DRY SUMP.... that's hot.
Z06 brakes
four-wheel antilock disc with six-piston front/four-piston rear calipers and cross-drilled rotors
Steering
power rack-and-pinion, speed-sensitive


Magnetic Selective Ride Control
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Magnetic Selective Ride Control is a real–time, cockpit–adjustable ride control system that adjusts shock-absorber damping by means of electromagnetically charged particles contained within the shock fluid. When exposed to a magnetic charge, the fluid properties change, forming a near–solid state. With wheel position sensors at each wheel, the system literally reads and responds to every inch of the road, immediately adjusts the damper force on each wheel, and responds to changing road and driving conditions.

Unlike traditional mechanical shock valves, there is practically no limit to the range of soft–to–firm damping capability. And it responds five times faster than previous Real Time Damping (RTD) systems.

There are two cockpit settings,“Tour” and “Sport,” managed by a single switch located on the center console. The “Tour” setting provides more ride comfort and compliance for everyday driving conditions, while the “Sport” setting provides a firmer ride for performance driving, and more communication of road feel.


Double Wishbone Suspension
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Corvette coupe and convertible feature a Short Arm/Long Arm (SLA) double–wishbone suspension with forged–aluminum A–arms. The suspension is capable of .92g road–holding ability on the skidpad (.98g with available Z51 Performance Package). The Z06 uses a similar geometry with wider wheels and tires to achieve a 1.04g lateral acceleration figure. Three suspension choices are available for the coupe and convertible: the standard suspension, Magnetic Selective Ride Control, and the Z51 Performance Package shown.

Short–Throw Six–Speed Manual Transmission
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you like crisp, fast shifting, savor the new short–throw six–speed manual transmission that comes standard in the new Corvette. The shifter itself is designed to be an extension of your hand. Along with a light clutch effort, it allows for lighter, faster shifts in either a joystick or palm hand position. Because the transmission is located in the rear of the car and is connected to the engine by means of a transaxle and torque tube, Corvette achieves a near 50/50 weight distribution for better overall performance.





Active Handling is an electronic symphony of Traction Control and antilock brakes working through a network of microcomputers, aircraft–style accelerometers, and sensors to provide an electronic safety net. Although no system, no matter how sophisticated, can overcome the laws of physics, this system compares driver steering input with actual vehicle response and, when necessary, uses individual wheel brake application, as well as the Traction Control system, and available Magnetic Selective Ride Control system to maximize the driver’s ability to maintain stability and stay on track.

Using the magnetic selective dampers to help the traction control.. so outdated. :shrug: Yeah the ride quality must be soooo bad.. how can we live with such a pile of junk in the garage? :pillepall


The Corvette Z06 offers available 10-spoke Polished Aluminum wheels in sizes 18" x 9.5" front and 19" x 12" rear. The wheels feature a brighter look than the standard Painted Aluminum wheel. The wheels are mounted to the widest tires ever offered on a Corvette — Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar Extended Mobility Tires (EMT) in sizes 275/35/ZR-18 front and 325/30ZR-19 rear. EMT tires are designed to operate at 0 psi for up to 100 miles at 55 mph should a flat occur. The tires are speed rated to 205 mph (the Z06 has a top speed of 198 mph on the test track).



198MPH- what a crappy car for the price.


Tire Pressure Monitor System
Corvette is equipped with Extended Mobility Tires that are designed to operate at 0 psi air pressure for up to 100 miles at 55 mph should a flat occur. In the event the tire pressure in any of your vehicle's tires drops below 26 psi, this safety feature signals you via a message on the Driver Information Center. You can also check each tire's pressure to the nearest one psi.




It is just so funny to hear people say the car sucks.. Anyone would be blown away if the drove it.. like you could even get the most out of it... So funny.

[Hallen]

Yes, and there's a reason. America is still in the 1920's with car and engine design. Mmmm, pushrods and leaf springs. I know, lets call this car the sports version...

P.S. I know it's not so bad now, you're probably in the 1970's of European car design. But come on, America has yet to produce half a dozen good sports cars. The Newest 'vette is suposedly the best yet, and it has a time on Nurburgring to prove it. But optimising a car for the Nurburgring doesn't actually means is necessarily any good in real life. I'd bet a Mazda 787B is quicker round it, but I'd also bet it's utterly useless on an open public road. So don't use the 'it's good round a track' argument here, it cuts no mustard with me. When America makes a good chassis/engine/body I'll be the first to admit it.

Overstatement or just plain ignorance?
America has a huge market for a very wide variety of cars. I doubt you will find push rods in many cars now... except for NASCAR where it is mandated by the rules. Plus, pushrods can be better for certain applications just like live axels are. It is all in what you want from a car.

The big American manufacturers are slow to respond and they do have a tendency to follow trends instead of taking risks. But that does not mean that we are without some alternatives. Check out http://www.panozauto.com/

I own a Chevy... truck. It's a good truck. I also own a BMW 323. It is a great car. In some ways I wish more American manufacturers would produce something more innovative. But, they mostly produce generic boring cars that are geared to the mass-market here in the US. And they do work fine for that purpose. Somebody has to make cars like that. I do get annoyed at the Marketing hype calling certain cars "sports" versions when all they do is add bigger wheels and a useless spoiler, but that is true of a lot of car manufactures.

I am not defending the big three manufacturers, in general, they suck for sports cars, but there has been some good movement in the right direction over the last few years. It is frustrating because they can do it if they push for it, but they always manage to screw things up. The latest trends are nostalgia muscle "pony" cars, Mustang, GTO, Charger. They look cool, but they are still big and lacking in a really good suspension system.:tilt:

Of course, you can slam any manufacturer for lame ideas and features. The BMW "no maintenance" gearboxes are just plain stupid and the E46 model of the 3 series does not even have an option for a limited slip differential.:pillepall

[BWX232]

Of course, you can slam any manufacturer for lame ideas and features. The BMW "no maintenance" gearboxes are just plain stupid and the E46 model of the 3 series does not even have an option for a limited slip differential.:pillepall
That's funny because my (my wife's actually) POS Nissan 200SX-SeR has a factory limited slip. A fun little car actually. It is amazing a Beemer like that doesn't have one!

[Michael Denham]

Yes, and there's a reason. America is still in the 1920's with car and engine design. Mmmm, pushrods and leaf springs. I know, lets call this car the sports version...

P.S. I know it's not so bad now, you're probably in the 1970's of European car design. But come on, America has yet to produce half a dozen good sports cars. The Newest 'vette is suposedly the best yet, and it has a time on Nurburgring to prove it. But optimising a car for the Nurburgring doesn't actually means is necessarily any good in real life. I'd bet a Mazda 787B is quicker round it, but I'd also bet it's utterly useless on an open public road. So don't use the 'it's good round a track' argument here, it cuts no mustard with me. When America makes a good chassis/engine/body I'll be the first to admit it.
Okay, but why bash American cars at every single possible opportunity? I'm English myself as it happens, but I just think it's a bit OTT to say something negative about anything American at every opportunity. Just gets a bit tiring I suppose. We all know they use leaf springs, lets just leave it at that....It's like if I didn't like the way you cut your hair, I wouldn't comment on it every day.

[BWX232]

Okay, but why bash American cars at every single possible opportunity? I'm English myself as it happens, but I just think it's a bit OTT to say something negative about anything American at every opportunity. Just gets a bit tiring I suppose. We all know they use leaf springs, lets just leave it at that....It's like if I didn't like the way you cut your hair, I wouldn't comment on it every day.

Isn't that the whole point of being anti-American?

If you spend one day on the "WORLD wide web"- errr. the internet.. and you are actually American, you notice it even more.
Can't get away from it really. Hell- half the people from the US are anti-American..

You get used to it.

EDIT- that sounded like me accusing tristancliffe of being Anti-American or something.. I wasn't.. Just explaining how it is in general sometimes.

[WorldFamous]

I'd argue the Corvette isn't a sports car but a skip.

With that kind of argument you'd look like an idiot.

Cars are products of their enviroment, something you seem incapable of grasping. Why do most American saloons handle like a barge? Simply because the roads over there don't require anything more. You can't hold them to the same standards as European cars because they're filling an entirely different requirement.

The Corvette is different though, as anyone who driven the C6 or Z06 will testify. It's a world beating GT through and through. Only the 911 is close in terms of being a supercar with everyday useability.

So it isn't drentched with the latest technology of it's European cousins, who cares when it works so well? Oh that's right... idiot car snobs who write off vehicles based solely on geography...

[tristancliffe]

Hey, I don't start topics saying Aren't American cars are bad. I just point out to those that blindly think they are good cars that they aren't, BECAUSE of the environment and social ideals over there. And I can see virtues in most, if not all cars, for their desired purpose, but I can't stand people who think something is good at something when it isn't. Throwing a brouchure clip of corvette goodness won't convince me they are any good, and neither will Nordschleife times. I doubt it'll be too long before I get to drive one anyway, and then I can make my mind up myself, but I see no beauty or passion in it's design, engineering or exectution, just a few gimmicks and some flashy lap times to generate sales.

And I not bashing Americans in general, nor am I bashing those companies involved in motorsport in America. I'm bashing the big car companies out to make a profit, that will stoop to lying and blatent deceit of the car buyer to acheive that. I'd argue that the average America car tuner has a much tougher job to create competative motorsport vehicles because the base product is so bad. That they manage it is a testament to their ability and intelligence. If those same people were in charge of, say, GM I'm sure it would produce better cars.

And don't try and argue firstly that it's a sport car, and then in the same post try and argue it's a GT car. The two catagories are almost as far apart as the moon and the Sun. One or the other. A GT car might be quite sport, and a sports car might be comfy or frugal, but a sports car isn't a GT car, and a GT car isn't a sports car. The priorities required to do well at one of them contradict the others.

[spoop]

The Z06 Corvette is the second fastest production car to lap the nurburgring, I can't believe no one has mentioned this yet, or maybe I'm just blind :D It's second only to the $440,000 Porsche Carrera GT, beating all the 911's, Lamborghini Murcielago and Gallardo, and the McMerc SLR, which quite literally costs 10x more. Admittedly, Ferrari doesn't seem to run its cars around the ring, but there is no doubt in my mind that only the Enzo could be it.

[ErockCTS]

wow didnt know it was gonna turn into this haha

anyways where i live ( on long island) not many roads have tight twisty curves ... my cadi cts handles well but its under powerd for sure for me atleast

sure some places of the US are twisty and hilly and all that but most of it is just flat straight roads with a turn for a block once in awile haha :)

however the new corvette (hell even my 99 vette) handle AMAZINGLY

my friend lives by the water and at end of road is a nice shapped roadfor a high speed turn

drifting a camaro or corvette around it at 50+ is a blast :)

road in europe are much different then here in america

anyways id love to see real cars ... personally i like driving a car i have owned (one of my camaros or a vette) or a car i wish i could own ... its brings it that much more to simulation because we are trying here to get real life situations ... a real car would be much more realistic to me in a simulation ... fake cars in arcade like Burnout series ... but thats just me ... and on that note this game still is amazing with our without real cars :thumb:

[BWX232]

The Z06 Corvette is the second fastest production car to lap the nurburgring, I can't believe no one has mentioned this yet, or maybe I'm just blind :D It's second only to the $440,000 Porsche Carrera GT, beating all the 911's, Lamborghini Murcielago and Gallardo, and the McMerc SLR, which quite literally costs 10x more. Admittedly, Ferrari doesn't seem to run its cars around the ring, but there is no doubt in my mind that only the Enzo could be it.
Yeah I knew that but I don't remember where I put the links and I figures 25 people would start an argument saying I was full of BS... so I neglected to put that out there.. But it is just a really fast pile of junk anyway, who cares how fast it is- I mean that means nothing.

It's a Chevy, that's what matters.. it is made by people who work for Chevy.. so it is a "skip".... :shrug:

I mean holy crap- leaf springs! OMG! 198 MPH leaf springs!.. I would rather drive a Yugo.. at least it is not a Chevy!

[SamH]

American cars really aren't as big as they used to be, and they are getting smaller.. so shelve the concept of General Lee and Kojak, Knight Rider and the rest. It's not really been like that since the 70s.

When I drive from Chicago to Iowa or Maine, I REALLY don't wanna do it in my Grand AM (don't laugh).. I rent a Buick because it's a bit bigger and buttloads more comfortable. Gas prices aren't comparable with UK prices, even though they're pretty excrutiating these days. As for claiming the environmental unfriendliness of American cars (before anyone starts), the Americans were fitting cats to their cars years before we were, and they were getting them imported from us in the UK, but that's an aside. They're more economical than perceived from the UK because most Brits forget, when they're calculating out the MPG, that a US gallon is 3.78 litres rather than the 4.5ish. That's a big difference.

But our US/Canadian buddies please note, bashing the PERCIEVED American car is NOT bashing the American. As I said in my original post, most Americans will PROBABLY acknowledge that technologically speaking the Vette ain't up there.

But is a sports car really about finesse, or is it about seat-of-the-pants exhilarating driving. If you've driven a Vette, you'll concede it's a thrill. Isn't that what driving a sports car is about, after all?

Oh.. and don't EVEN claim the British heritage tale.. bwallax. Like British Range Rovers were well made? Or Rover 6 series? Or even Jags? They sucked, FFS. The lot of them. Shall we talk about the chronological history of the British car industry? Please!

[P5YcHoM4N]

Not bashing Americans, just their cars, big difference my friend ;).

As for the Brits having a superior attitude to cars, its a bit difficult to have that when we have little or no car industry to speak off.

Dan,
Errmmm... some of the most kick ass vehicals have been made here. Plus English enginers kick the shit out of Americans for one main reason. The last Batmobile.

Film makers go to all US companies "HAHAHAHA, you wish mate, that's impossable to make", film make says "screw you hippy, I'm going to England", they fly over come to England "Tallyho old chap, we'll have your car ready in no time. Jolly good, tea and curmpets anyone?".

[JohnUK89]

Errmmm... some of the most kick ass vehicals have been made here. Plus English enginers kick the shit out of Americans for one main reason. The last Batmobile.

You can't claim that the UK car industry is any better than the american one because of one car, it is over the whole range that you need to compare.

The Americans have also produced some kickass cars recently, take the Ford GT for example. That has done away with the apparent lack of cornering ability of American cars, and it is also a beautiful looking car. In fact (for Brits) Jeremy Clarkson even bought one, and he hates American cars, and American motor companies.

[ErockCTS]

every area has there good cars and there not so good cars ... if i had the money id be rollin in a ferrari or lambo or aston or a vette(inherited the 1999 Corvette Coupe from a family member) or a viper ... or the new saleen s7 twin turbo which is in the buggati range :)

the corvette is comfortable but im not in the corvette for comfort ... i sold my camaros for a cadi CTS for the comfort and luxury (plus girls dig it more haha) not to mention the cts was more or less designed in germany haha :)

i dont wanna drive a mini because its a death trap in my area and we have sum big roads not small roads ... if i was in the UK id prolly want a small nimble car not a fast edge of your seat kinda car

but hey every area has there ups and downs its just how it is lol

[MAGGOT]

When you ask? Whenever those companies approach the devs for a license. :)

[SamH]

Why do most American saloons handle like a barge?
In an otherwise solid post, I feel compelled to state that this is pretty well historical. They really DON'T handle bad these days. You can probably thank the import market for jostling the domestic market into getting up to speed. The US car market is highly competitive, and Americans are (without wishing to generalise too much) largely very competitive too. My Grand AM may be a grannymobile but the traction control and low centre of gravity make it great fun to push.

[STROBE]

Oh.. and don't EVEN claim the British heritage tale.. bwallax. Like British Range Rovers were well made? Or Rover 6 series? Or even Jags? They sucked, FFS. The lot of them. Shall we talk about the chronological history of the British car industry? Please!
I think you'll find the miserable state of the British car industry is chiefly down to appalling management despite some superb engineering (not saying we didn't make any duffers, every country has some appalling creations they'd rather forget. :D). When you consider that British engineers are at the heart of so many road cars from multinational car companies and that British engineers almost have a monopoly on international motorsport, I'd say we aint done too badly when you take into account the cack-handed management of our industry in general. ;)

[ErockCTS]

just on a side note my Cadi CTSVR team is doin well again in SCCA and so are the vettes in the le mans series if im not mistaking ... but so are some porches and stuff ...

[P5YcHoM4N]

You can't claim that the UK car industry is any better than the american one because of one car, it is over the whole range that you need to compare.

The Americans have also produced some kickass cars recently, take the Ford GT for example. That has done away with the apparent lack of cornering ability of American cars, and it is also a beautiful looking car. In fact (for Brits) Jeremy Clarkson even bought one, and he hates American cars, and American motor companies.
I know, but I just find that EVERY American company said it was impossable to build a car like they wanted and have it useable.

I'm not a fan of the car, not my cuppa tea. I'm a patriot as such only like English made cars. And I also noticed that being a patriot is only a bad thing if you're English and one. I mean, what the hell. It's racist and offencive to fly the St. Georges over here thanks to the Political Correctness. I was told my passport was offencive because it was in a St Georges case. How the feck does that work?

But that allside, I can't stand new cars anyway. They are all getting more and more ugly as they go. I'll take a classic over a sports car of today.

[BWX232]

BMW owns:
-BMW
-Mini
-Rolls Royce

Daimler/Chrysler owns:
-AMC (brand discontinued -- Chrysler bought AMC primarily for the Jeep brand which was owned by AMC)
-Chrysler
-Dodge
-Eagle (brand discontinued)
-Hyundai (Daimler/Chrysler only owns 10% --13 May 04 changes!)
-Jeep
-Maybach
-Mercedes-Benz
-Plymouth (brand discontinued)
-Smart

Fiat owns:
-Alfa Romeo
-Ferrari
-Fiat
-Lancia
-Maserati

Ford owns:
-Aston Martin
-Ford
-Jaguar
-Land Rover (bought from BMW)-Lincoln
-Mazda (Ford owns 33% of Mazda)
-Mercury
-Volvo cars

Fuji Heavy Industries owns:
-Subaru

General Motors owns:
-Buick
-Cadillac
-Chevrolet
-Daewoo (GM owns 44%)
-Fiat (GM has decided to divorce itself from Fiat as of Feb '05, but will retain 10% ownership.)
-GMC
-Holden
-Hummer
-Oldsmobile (brand discontinued)
-Opel
-Pontiac
-Saab
-Saturn
-Suzuki (2.5%, from 20%)
-Vauxhall

Honda owns:
-Acura
-Honda

Hyundai owns:
-Hyundai
-Kia

Isuzu owns:
-Isuzu
(Mitsubishi Corp., Itochu Corp. and Mizuho Corporate Bank owns part of Isuzu.)

Nissan owns:
-Infiniti
-Nissan
-Renault (Nissan owns 15%)

PSA Peugeot Citroen owns:
-Citroen
-Peugeot

Porsche owns:
-Porsche
-VW (20%)

Renault owns:
-Nissan (Renault owns 44%)

Toyota owns:
-Daihatsu (~51%)
-Fuji Heavy Industries -- Subaru (Toyota owns ~20%. Toyota bought this from GM in late 2005. )
-Lexus
-Scion
-Toyota

Volkswagen owns:
-Audi
-Bentley
-Bugatti
-Lamborghini
-SEAT
-Skoda
-Volkswagen



BLAH BLAH BLAH

[JohnUK89]

And I also noticed that being a patriot is only a bad thing if you're English and one. I mean, what the hell. It's racist and offencive to fly the St. Georges over here thanks to the Political Correctness. I was told my passport was offencive because it was in a St Georges case. How the feck does that work?

I have to agree with you on that point, Political Correctness has gone way too far during the past few years, I blame Blair myself...

The St George's flag is simply saying "I am proud to be English". The Americans are all too happy to pronounce their love for their country by having their flag everywhere, so why can't we do the same, and show out loyalty to everything that is English (and to a wider extent, British)

I can't stand new cars anyway. They are all getting more and more ugly as they go. I'll take a classic over a sports car of today.
This is true also, lately I saw a picture of a beautiful Vauxhall Velux from the 50's, and all i can say to that is PHWOAR! Has to be the most beautiful car I've ever seen.

Thet doesn't, however, mean that ALL new cars are awful, or any more ugly. The Lotus Elise (not particularly new, but hardly to be considered old) is, IMHO, a fantastic looking car, and puts many older cars to shame in every aspect. In general though, your point does hold :)

[P5YcHoM4N]

[List of ownership]
Owning a company and making a product are very different. Dell own Alienware, but Alienware are still their own company, just Dell takes their profits now.

I have to agree with you on that point, Political Correctness has gone way too far during the past few years, I blame Blair myself...

The St George's flag is simply saying "I am proud to be English". The Americans are all too happy to pronounce their love for their country by having their flag everywhere, so why can't we do the same, and show out loyalty to everything that is English (and to a wider extent, British)
Indeed, and this British Day makes me laugh. Why should we need to be allocated 1 day to show our love for our home land. It should be something you do every day.

This is true also, lately I saw a picture of a beautiful Vauxhall Velux from the 50's, and all i can say to that is PHWOAR! Has to be the most beautiful car I've ever seen.

Thet doesn't, however, mean that ALL new cars are awful, or any more ugly. The Lotus Elise (not particularly new, but hardly to be considered old) is, IMHO, a fantastic looking car, and puts many older cars to shame in every aspect. In general though, your point does hold :)
This is true, every now and then we will get something that is of beauty, but more often then not we get this (http://www.motorintro.com/actuales/honda/civic_concept2006.htm), or this (http://www.seriouswheels.com/2005/2005-Renault-Megane-Renaultsport-Trophy-FA-1024x768.htm), to name a few. What the hell was they thinking when they cooked that up...

[Gunn]

The English seem to have such an attitude of superiority when it comes to cars, it's not even funny. :) Not exactly an endearing quality....Perhaps not, but when it comes to cars, they do have a point.

[Hallen]

I love some of the comments here, it shows me that although we are all different, some things are the same everywhere.:thumb:

There are some briliant cars out there, and there are some real duds. There are some that are sad, because they could have been so much more and some that are sad because they were in the first place.

I have seen great stupidity in design, engineering and service from all parts of the globe. Nobody has it perfect, but every once in a while, things just click and you end up with something special. I think LFS is one of those things.:nod:

I'm sorry Tristian if I came off as just a bit defensive. After I posted, I thought to myself, why am I trying to defend the US car makers? I don't like most of what they do and what they make. The best thing that has happened to them is the competitive pressure from European and Japanese manufacturers.

[Rappa Z]

Originally Posted by Michael Denham
The English seem to have such an attitude of superiority when it comes to cars, it's not even funny. Not exactly an endearing quality....

yea, i hate how so many ppl want top of the line cars, maybe that's why they sell some of the cars at the NY auto show. Me brother is different, he's taking my dad's 1969 Lotus Europa.:)

No real sports cars, i want to see a Rac GTR and a RB4 GTR first

[BWX232]

Owning a company and making a product are very different. Dell own Alienware, but Alienware are still their own company, just Dell takes their profits now.

...
Actually Alienware desktops are crap now.. LOL.

[P5YcHoM4N]

Actually Alienware desktops are crap now.. LOL.
Alienware went crap years ago. Back when they started and all their custom case intoled was an alien face on a standard case, they made some nice systems. Shortly after getting their trade mark case their work started to go downhill.

[SamH]

I saw a picture of a beautiful Vauxhall Velux from the 50's, and all i can say to that is PHWOAR! Has to be the most beautiful car I've ever seen.
Attached is one of the pictures John saw. It's my dad's latest purchase. We picked it up in the New Forest, and the RAC picked us up at Newbury. Worthy attempt, though!

It's a 1954 Vauxhall Velox. I love it. It's a GM, with visible GM design, but built in Britain and it's still going. It's most of the way to being fully restored.. we're working on getting the rest of the way, though it really doesn't need much doing. 6 cylinders and 2.5L (iirc), it's lovely.

My fave of all of my dad's cars, ever, has to be the Railton (8 cyl, 4.2L engine). It was the classic 30s combination of British and American co-operation in car manufacturing and engineering. My dad has a picture, somewhere, of a Railton clearing the top of a 1-in-4 hill, and leaving the ground over the crest. Lovely stuff!

[P5YcHoM4N]

You mean something like this (http://vintagecars.about.com/od/greatcars/ss/railton_hudson_2.htm).

[SamH]

Bloody hell! That's the one! Kewl or WHAT?

Not what you expect to see a 1930s car doing, is it? LOL

[P5YcHoM4N]

To be honest. A lot of new cars couldn't pull that off.

But jolly good show old chap. Really shows what a real car can do, some what.

[richy]

you know i saw a video a while back of formula 1 cars jumping over a hill, ive never seen anything like it

has anyone got a link to it?

f1 in the old days jumping in the race! it was sick

[OsC]

well, some people says that want more licensed cars, but i think is better improve fisics to make lfs more real than pay expensive licenses for put real cars ;)

Pd: Sorry for my bad english, but i am not so good in this language :)

[gremwood]

I wouldn't mind a Skyline, a Ferrari Enzo, or a Lambrodighini thrown in.

[[Viking]]

To be honest, I don't want many retail "real" cars, like Ferrari and Skyline etc. A small part of them, like today, but not more :shrug: I think it's part of LFS' charm to have mostly home-made cars, but still well-known chassis and engine which we can relate to real cars. It might work, but LFS is so damn good, I don't know if I'm willing to take the chance.