Questions about getting lapped and turn signal indicator usage

[speedfreak227]

When I'm lucky enough to get to see races with multiple classes on TV I notice that the slower guys often use turn signal indicators to acknowledge the guys lapping them.

My questions are:
1) If I'm being lapped and I put my left turn signal indicator on does that mean I'm going to move over to the left or I want the guy to lap me on the left? Or is it simply enough to acknowledge the guy and he can figure out what I mean by my racing line?

2) Can I map the left/right turn signals to buttons on my wheel? I've got the red momo with 6 buttons and I really only use three of them. (look left/right and speed limiter)

speedfreak227

[NotAnIllusion]

1) I always move to the side I indicate, not that I actually bother indicating much.

2) You can do it from the profiler.

[speedfreak227]

Ok, I tried and couldn't find where to select turn signals. Where are they?:scratchch

and what do ctrl F9-F12 do?

speedfreak227

[NotAnIllusion]

What I meant is open the Logitech Profiler, and assign whatever indicator combinations you want (kb 7 thru to 0 (left, right, emergency, none respectively)) for the buttons on your MOMO in the profiler.

F9 is tire info (temps, camber, G force and wear)
F10 is damage
F11 is live settings (brake bias etc)
F12 is pit strategy

[speedfreak227]

ok, thank you. now can you tell me which key does left signal and which one does right signal?

as for F9-F12, i know about those. i meant CTRL F9-f12 as i've circled in the picture attachment

[NotAnIllusion]

Ah lol sorry, they're unused. Use them for whatever you want, e.g. "Blue FLAG n00b" msgs ;)

the indicator buttons are still numbers 7, 8, 9, 0 on your keyboard, but aren't found in the in-game settings I believe :scratchch

and use the method in the pic provided to assign indicators to ur wheel buttons

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3300/wheelbuttons6ux.th.jpg (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wheelbuttons6ux.jpg)

[Michael Denham]

Number button 7 is signal left, 8 is signal right, 9 is hazards/4-way flashers, and 0 cancels your signal. I think I used to assign it on the d-pad on my DFP as left for left signal, right for right signal, up for hazards, and down for cancel. Worked nicely. Not that I ever used it!

Nice idea for when you're being lapped. :thumbsup:

Edit: beaten to it!

[Kencan]

Use 7 for left
8 for right
9 for hazards
0 for lights off

Ctrl+ F9 to F12 are just more empty spaces you can use for binds ala F1 toF8.

Also, if you check in your doc folder under keys.pdf, you will find a more complete list of the keyboard binds.
That being said, I haven't mapped any turn signals into my 6 button wheel. I need my handbrake and horn!

Double beaten to it!

[Gunn]

Since so many people disagree on what a turn signal means during racing it is perhaps best never to use them at all. If someone needs to pass you then they can do that by themselves. Under a blue flag just hold your normal line through corners and stay to one side on a straight and they can find their way past without having to quess what you will do. There's no need for swerving to one side or using indicators, in fact many drivers would prefer if you didn't do anything at all, just slow a little on a straight section to let them pass easily.

[speedfreak227]

Since so many people disagree on what a turn signal means during racing it is perhaps best never to use them at all. If someone needs to pass you then they can do that by themselves. Under a blue flag just hold your normal line through corners and stay to one side on a straight and they can find their way past without having to quess what you will do. There's no need for swerving to one side or using indicators, in fact many drivers would prefer if you didn't do anything at all, just slow a little on a straight section to let them pass easily.

i usually try to be predictable if i'm being lapped but sometimes when going through flat out kinks or corners like on the main aston straight the lappers will end up nailing me anyways. oh well. thanx for all your help everyone.

speedfreak227

[speedfreak227]

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3300/wheelbuttons6ux.th.jpg
i went to that page but when i selected a button the options were all greyed out. i don't know why.

speedfreak227

[NotAnIllusion]

Hmm, not had that before. Have you created a separate profile for LFS? Maybe that'll help.

[mrodgers]

Control F9 - 12 are auto chat keys just like the regular F1 - 8 and shift F1-8. Scawen included them in patch P to be able to bind them to wheel buttons. Many folks asked for that. That way you have no excuse for not being polite and saying "Sorry" and "Thank you" and "Hi". I noticed now that folks have come back for the patch, that there is a lacking of "sorry" when contact is made. Goes a long way when someone says "sorry" in my opinion.

[richy]

its common sense to signal what YOURE going to do not what you think the other driver should do. you dont indicate on the roads to tell people where they should go? :pillepall

[speedfreak227]

its common sense to signal what YOURE going to do not what you think the other driver should do. you dont indicate on the roads to tell people where they should go? :pillepall

if you watch the 24 hours of le mans a lot of drivers actually pull to the right hand side of the mulsane (sp?) straight and signal left. i was just wondering if there is a standard.

i'm not lapped all that often but i was just wondering if there's a protocol.:thumb:

speedfreak227

[MAGGOT]

Ive never noticed turn signals in enduros myself... Ill have to look out for that next time Im able to catch a race.

MAGGOT

[Gunn]

its common sense to signal what YOURE going to do not what you think the other driver should do. you dont indicate on the roads to tell people where they should go? :pillepallIt is not uncommon on a highway to see a truck or bus use his turn signal to let you know it is clear to pass. The signal used is the side you are to pass on. This is usually on a road that has one lane running either way. In these cases the driver of the large vehicle is signalling to tell you what you are to do, not what he is going to do.

[-SE1Z-]

I go to regular trackdays in my own vehicle.

We are instructed to indicate to show the overtaking car which side to overtake...

e.g. i put my LEFT indicator on, they pass on the left. :thumb:

[speedfreak227]

I go to regular trackdays in my own vehicle.

We are instructed to indicate to show the overtaking car which side to overtake...

e.g. i put my LEFT indicator on, they pass on the left. :thumb:
THAT is what i wanted to hear. a rule that's applied on track. i thought that was the way it was done but just wasn't sure.

from now on i'm going with that. i'm pretty sure that's what i've seen in 24 hours of le mans.

speedfreak227

[richy]

It is not uncommon on a highway to see a truck or bus use his turn signal to let you know it is clear to pass. The signal used is the side you are to pass on. This is usually on a road that has one lane running either way. In these cases the driver of the large vehicle is signalling to tell you what you are to do, not what he is going to do.

well i wouldnt go on the right hand side of a lorry that was signalling right, i would wait until i knew it was ok to pass it rather than someone else being my eyes for me.

[SatCP]

In my experience people that can lap you without causing accidents don't need to be pointed where/when they can pass. They'll see what you are doing and anticipate to it. Some other drivers on the other hand think they have the whole road when lapping and crash you off the road no matter if you're just holding your line, moving aside, holding in, signing directions,... :)

Nevertheless, I usually sign directions when someone on the same lap is coming in at a lot faster pace than I'm running and I don't want to risk an accident by fighting him. It's just to indicate that I'm not going to battle and allow a safe and quick pass. In that case I sign to the side of the road I'm staying at. It's just that without such signals you sometimes just can't figure out what someone's doing in front of you. I've had it happen more than once when I lap/overtake someone the other car appears to go off the racing line to make room, and when you make your move they suddenly cross your track, obviously not aware that you were there. And then of course it's the usual "n00b, wtf are you doing? Ban this moron. Wrecker on the track. He rammed me just to get past. Plz vote"...

Turning indicators are a great way to let the car behind know that you've seen him. Too bad there are two ways of interpretation.

I know that in racing situations you sign to the opposite side of where you are going. I did that initially too in LFS, but most people don't seem to have real circuit experience and didn't really understand what I was doing. So I reverted to using road-style indication. Just sign to the direction you are heading. The other car will soon enough see that you are going that way and stay that way.

[Vain]

I usually only see that cars that are being overtaken indicate in which direction they will stay.
Indicate left, stay left.
That is rather practical because that's what we are all used to from motorways.

But it's rather obvious that when you stay to the left and indicate right you want the one behind you to pass right. Though I've never seen that on the track.

Vain

[NotAnIllusion]

THAT is what i wanted to hear. a rule that's applied on track. i thought that was the way it was done but just wasn't sure.

from now on i'm going with that. i'm pretty sure that's what i've seen in 24 hours of le mans.

speedfreak227
I'm sure you realise, that if you do use that technique (or in fact any signalling) and you're still taken out as a result of a misunderstanding you won't be any less at fault for the crash because there is no one standard agreed way in LFS to do this. The safest possible way to getting lapped is slowing down and holding your line without indicating, it's dead obvious and the most logical thing a passing driver should be looking for (IMO).

Good racing! :tilt:

[JTbo]

I usually only see that cars that are being overtaken indicate in which direction they will stay.
Indicate left, stay left.
That is rather practical because that's what we are all used to from motorways.

But it's rather obvious that when you stay to the left and indicate right you want the one behind you to pass right. Though I've never seen that on the track.

Vain

Once I was on trackday and I was lot faster with my grandpa Volvo than Sierra front of me so he move aside and blinks (http://www.janiervast.com/videot/index.php?dir=low/&file=Motopark_dry1_lap3_xvid.avi) wrong way, imo. It is near half way of that 15MB clip. That is quite tricky place as it is downhill braking to corner, so needed to kill speed quite fast when saw that move :P

Once I got race car almost into trunk as I was closing to that chicane near end of lap and did not slow down enough, just lifted a bit of throttle at straight to let him pass, so when I started to brake he was not quite ready, luckily good brakes. Lesson of story, give space after turn not before, before turn keep your speed, pace and lines, car behind will know what you are do and after turn move as normally at exit and start blinking towards direction where you are moving.

Once I was on track with Superbikes, man I felt slow, but they just say that I should keep driving and not giving space or anything, much safer.

[Vain]

I like to see someone indicate in front of me because that way I know that
a) the driver has noticed me and
b) the driver expects me to do the pass now.
No matter the direction the driver before me indicates, the situation is safer than without indication, because we both know what the other driver will do. I know he will slow down, he knows I'll pass. No uncertainty.
If you're completely undecided wether to indicate left or right, just use the hazzard lights. ;)

Vain

[Greboth]

When blue falg pops up i usually check mirrors as sometimes can show blue falg when cars its showing blueflag for is ages away. But i pay more attention to my mirrors and as they get close i usually move to one side of track, that my be left or right depending on track, but usually the outside of whatever corners approaching. I move while im still far enough a head thath the driver can see me but itsnt affected by what im doing (eg having to suddenly switched sides of track) then wehn im one side of the track i usually indicate to that the side of the track to show im staying on that side.
Also on the occasions ive been lapping someone i usually hit "good pass" after a good pass. Wasnt for position but im like thanking them for not gettin in the way. Just think that shuld be done more.
Overall it does seem in racing they indicate to show side for driver to pass, but i would say racing in lfs safer to indicate to the side you are going to.

[SatCP]

I like to see someone indicate in front of me because that way I know that
a) the driver has noticed me and
b) the driver expects me to do the pass now.
No matter the direction the driver before me indicates, the situation is safer than without indication, because we both know what the other driver will do. I know he will slow down, he knows I'll pass. No uncertainty.
I feel exactly the same. It's not really the direction of signing that counts, it's the fact that the driver ahead has seen the incoming driver. Even if there is a little miscommunication about on which side to pass because the front driver doesn't move to one side fast enough, you still know that no matter what happens, the driver in front has seen you and wants to avoid a collision just as much as you.

In other cases it's "I hope he's seen me..."

Let's not forget that there are few professional drivers amongst the LFS drivers. On a real life circuit you know the guy in front of you has probably at least some racing experience and knows the rules of racing (not always - even in F1 you see people who don't know the meaning of mirrors and blue flags). When he doesn't sign directions you can still be pretty sure he knows you are there.

Online in LFS is a different thing. Quite a few drivers don't even have a driving license in real life, never been on a circuit or never raced any other realistic racing game with other people. When you tail someone it's not straightforward to blindly assume he knows you are there. Some people have due to their small FOV and no virtual mirror simply no rear view unless they look behind them. And even with a mirror some people just don't see you.

I'm not saying everyone must use their turning lights, but I sure know to appreciate it.

[SatCP]

Also on the occasions ive been lapping someone i usually hit "good pass" after a good pass. Wasnt for position but im like thanking them for not gettin in the way. Just think that shuld be done more.
I always forget which one the "Thanks" key is ;)
If I see someone making sure I can make a safe pass I tend to blink the hazard light twice as a way of saying thanks. I guess most people don't even notice it, so it may be better to say thanks over the chat.

Overall it does seem in racing they indicate to show side for driver to pass, but i would say racing in lfs safer to indicate to the side you are going to.
That's how I experience it too. I used to indicate to the opposite side, but that lead to discussions like "why were you indicating left while you stayed right?" or contacts because the other car moved the same way as I did. Now I simply sign in the direction I move. Can't say I had anyone complaining about that.

[deggis]

I've never even thought about this idea giving light signals... but I think the easiest way is to make a command (in the Profiler) for the hazard lights. Don't make a keystroke, because with command you can make it first press keyboard button 9 (hazards on), little pause and then automatically to put them off with keyboard button 0. See the pic.

At least with hazard lights you don't need to wonder do I give a left or right light signal. :) And better for us MOMO users which doesn't have many buttons as DFP.

[Greboth]

I've never even thought about this idea giving light signals... but I think the easiest way is to make a command (in the Profiler) for the hazard lights. Don't make a keystroke, because with command you can make it first press keyboard button 9 (hazards on), little pause and then automatically to put them off with keyboard button 0. See the pic.

At least with hazard lights you don't need to wonder do I give a left or right light signal. :) And better for us MOMO users which doesn't have many buttons as DFP.

FOr momo users might bt good to use command. I use a dfp and have got inidicators/hazzards/no signals on the direction pad, so i can just turn them off in one press and i dont need to look away. Inidcators do seem to be usedful when blue falg situations arise.

[Vain]

In my layout I have a shift-key assigned on the wheel and shift-key + left/right paddle activates the indicators (without shift the paddles are look left/right, at least in streetcars). Tapping shift + the same paddle a second time will trigger the 0-key to disable the indicators again.
These cycle-commands in the logitech profiler can be pretty useful.

Vain

[mejlus]

I also wondered, which signal to show, because in real life I've seen a lot of trucks, that show on which side is safe to pass them. So usually in LFS I blink hazard lights and move to side of track, I think that is good way to tell "yes, I see you, I'm letting you pass", and that doesn't confuse anybody :)

[Yaamboo]

I suppose that in which direction trucks signal when it's safe to pass differs from country to country... Here in Finland trucks signal right when it's safe to pass, when I read somewhere that they signal left at Mexico.

[richy]

can we make a list of which countries the lorry drivers indicate which way you need to overtake.

im going to take out life insurance if i ever drive there

[SatCP]

I think the easiest way is to make a command (in the Profiler) for the hazard lights. Don't make a keystroke, because with command you can make it first press keyboard button 9 (hazards on), little pause and then automatically to put them off with keyboard button 0. See the pic.
Another way can be seen in the attached screenshot. With a command like that the hazard light (or left/right turning light if you change the keys) blinks for as long as you hold the assigned button. As soon as you release the button, the light goes out.

[TagForce]

can we make a list of which countries the lorry drivers indicate which way you need to overtake.

im going to take out life insurance if i ever drive there

Yeah, or do like me and get really messed up in the head when you realise he wasn't signalling for YOU to pass, but actually signalling HE was going to pass another truck... Geez, that was a tight squeeze between a truck and the armco.

[Turbo Dad]

In the UK (we drive on the left) if a lorry in front of me indicates right (outside), he is either over taking something or turning right.
If he indicates left (inside), he’s turning left or it’s safe for me to pass.

Also on track days here ,we are taught to indicate to the side we are moving to , just like on the road , you turn right you signal right .If your turning right , you don’t indicate left to tell the car behind he can pass on the left ...do you ???

I would use my indicators more ,but unsure of how to set them up on my thrustmaster force feedback wheel.

[Knight_Atack]

I try to keep it simple. Hazard flashs to show the peeps behind me that I am slower/on a slower lap. Then I simply move to where they are not going, like... Off the racing line. I use the turn signals sometimes on the normal lap, when someone wants to take me over. EX: back straight car suck... I hold the button a few seconds, light stay fully on, then close the light. I like that, lol. Not much of a utility I guess. Hehe.

[sgt.flippy]

I use it the way I always remembered it's been used on track: Blink to the left, if you want the guy behind you pass on the left. I use this quite often, and actually, I never had any problems with it at all, at least not I can remember.:scratchch

I do notice I'm often the only guy using this, I've never seen anyone else do it, while it's very practical and simple. And safe if we'd all agree on using it the same way. When IRL a car has trouble, and drives slowly, he always puts his blinker on in the direction people should pass him, so why not use the same in LFS?

And about truck drivers (or similar) telling you it's clear to pass... Never seen that one before, and if I would ever see it, I wouldn't trust on the guy. Like somebody else said... You don't know if he's signalling to you, or for you.

And we're on a track, not on the road, so I don't think the same rules apply, like don't pass on the right (for UK: don't pass on the left:D).

[mrodgers]

Reading this thread makes me realize why possibly at race start when I want those behind me to go by and I pull over, they sometimes seem to run into the back of me on purpose, LOL. They are turn signals which means they are what you use to signal where you want to turn. The way some describe it here, if you were out on the road and wanted to turn across the other lane of traffic into another road, those behind would crash into you because they thought you were signalling for them to go past on that side?? :pillepall

[sgt.flippy]

Like I said... On track signal lights don't mean the same thing as on the road.
You call them turn signals, like they are called on the road... I call them signal lights, like they are on the track. Simple as that.

And could somebody please back me up on that the side where the light is blinking, the passing driver should pass? I always "knew" it was like this, but I don't really have anything backing me up on that, and I'm too lazy to look it up or something.

[AdamW]

The problem is there's just no international protocol. UK drivers mean one thing by it, German drivers mean another, U.S. drivers mean something else. I remember reading a Nordschliefe site for U.K. drivers which has a whole paragraph explaining the convention regarding turn signals there. I figure that since there's no universal understanding of them, using them will probably cause more confusion than NOT using them, so I don't.

[Lex77]

I guess signalling on the track could be seen as a "point by", in which case, you should signal to the side you want the faster car to overtake on.

[sgt.flippy]

Funny how I never had any problems using my blinkers, and other people understand... And since I've been in this thread... it happend to me yesterday that the guy behind me got it the wrong way... so typical :D