Kimi -> Ferrari, MS -> McLaren??

[Vykos69]

You heard about the rumours? It's said, that Kimi already has signed some pre-contact with the Reds and MS is in contact with Mercedes anyway....

[ORION]

Im sure kimi will look weird with red clothing :D

[Gunn]

Isn't Massa going to Ferrari though? And Schumacher had already re-signed, Though I believe he has an escape clause based on the team's World Championship performance.

Arrggh the circus has begun again.

[Vykos69]

hmm, no. MS hasnt resigned yet. His contract ends after 2006 season. And today german newspaper says from "absolutely sure source", that Kimi already signed a pre contract with Ferrari...

[Hummer]

well I'd like to see Rossi in the Ferrari, not teh Iceman ;)

by the way, nice avatar Joe, maybe the best so far :P

[Gunn]

hmm, no. MS hasnt resigned yet. His contract ends after 2006 season. And today german newspaper says from "absolutely sure source", that Kimi already signed a pre contract with Ferrari...
For 2007?

Michael to Mercedes? He will have gone full circle then > Mercedes paid for his first F1 drive (@ £150000 in a Jordan). Michael was racing for Merc at the time in Group C.

[Flotch]

rofl, I cannot beleive that!

[Gunn]

rofl, I cannot beleive that!You think that is unbelievable?..... Poor old Eddie jordan thought he had Michael signed up but some loophole allowed Michael's manager to sneak him into a Benetton contract. Michael went to Benetton and the rest, as they say, is history! :)

[MyBoss]

Isn't Massa going to Ferrari though?


yes, but he is replacing Rubens.

If I see Kimi in red Ferrari clothes I seriously don't know what I am going to do.

[Flotch]

Ferrari without Schumacher 0_o . What could they do :p ?!!
BTW, that would be really really exciting, but while I do not read this into lots of articles, I will not believe in this ;) :p

And for he next season, Massa and Shumacher will drive the 2 Ferrari V8, but for 2007 there will be some changes ;) , we will see :) .

[frokki]

Ferrari without Schumacher 0_o . What could they do :p ?!Maybe get some better results? :)

[Gunn]

Maybe get some better results? :)Lol, that is highly unlikely. Whether or not you like MS there aren't too many drivers in his class, a few, but not many.

[Blackout]

I just dont think that Kimi would go to the Ferrari, McLaren is the quickest car now, and why it wouldnt be in the future. Kimi also said that driving a Mac is like dream come true, if it was just press talk I dont know.

[Gunn]

There is a certain prestige in driving for Ferrari (oldest team in F1). I can't remember whose quote it was but some famous driver said somethng like: "every driver should drive for Ferrari .... but only once". :P

I'll tell you why Kimi would go to Ferrari: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[ATHome]

I'll tell you why Kimi would go to Ferrari: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

That's the point. If they pay him 66% of the money MS costs, he'll still get more money than while driving for McLaren

[Jouni Trogen]

He´s not going.

[Gunn]

The strange part about the circus is that until the first race of next season you never know who is going to be driving for which team, or if they even have a drive at all. Rumours and confirmed reports notwithstanding, this has been the way for many many years. It is not uncommon for documents to be signed and promises to be made which all come to nothing in the end. Team bosses or drivers or driver's managers can instigate the greatest legal escapes in F1 and it can be astounding to behold. We shall see what we shall see. :D

[Hallen]

The strange part about the circus is that until the first race of next season you never know who is going to be driving for which team, or if they even have a drive at all. Rumours and confirmed reports notwithstanding, this has been the way for many many years. It is not uncommon for documents to be signed and promises to be made which all come to nothing in the end. Team bosses or drivers or driver's managers can instigate the greatest legal escapes in F1 and it can be astounding to behold. We shall see what we shall see. :D

Or, to paraphrase; Silly Season is on!

Michael specifically stated during an interview that he was not signing with McClarren. He is sticking with Ferarri, at least until the contract is up next year. After that, I am betting he retires, or starts his own team. He has nothing left to prove as a driver and he has all the money that he will ever need. Of course, I am sure he would love to leave the sport with just one more championship and a few more poles to capture the only other record he does not already own.
I think that there would be only two reasons Kimi would go to Ferarri: 1 $$$$ like already stated, or 2 he is convinced that Bridgestone can correct their performance slide (pun intended).

I am finding that I enjoy silly season quite a bit. It helps to build anticipation for next year :D

[Gunn]

Or, to paraphrase; Silly Season is on!

Michael specifically stated during an interview that he was not signing with McClarren. He is sticking with Ferarri, at least until the contract is up next year. After that, I am betting he retires, or starts his own team. He has nothing left to prove as a driver and he has all the money that he will ever need. Of course, I am sure he would love to leave the sport with just one more championship and a few more poles to capture the only other record he does not already own.
I think that there would be only two reasons Kimi would go to Ferarri: 1 $$$$ like already stated, or 2 he is convinced that Bridgestone can correct their performance slide (pun intended).

I am finding that I enjoy silly season quite a bit. It helps to build anticipation for next year :D
About one year ago Michael said he would expect to drive F1 until around 2009 and that he would not stop racing cars even then. He obviously doesn't need the cash so I guess as long as he's enjoying it he will continue. :)

The Bridgestone situation is not unusual, it has happened before where more than one tyre manufacturer supplies a series. There is still a certain prestige involved for drivers to belong to the Ferrari team.... and yes the money!

[ajp71]

Can't see it happening

[Mbrio]

And pigs will fly...

[Bluestream]

That's the point. If they pay him 66% of the money MS costs, he'll still get more money than while driving for McLaren

Ferrarri does not have the same money resource this year compared to 2004, at leaeset i read it :). And probly mclaren have quite alot of money to. I personally think it would be a misstake for kimi to go to ferrarri, just look at MS now, well maybe he's not as good as last year but it must have something to do with the car to.
And I think if kimi moves to ferrarri what if mclaren become even better, for example with their reliability :) and ferrarri continues to be as bad as this year.

And just watch the race kimi did today from 17th to the win why would he change team (well i know about reliability but anyway ferrarri isn't much better this year i guess)?

[vpr01]

MS aint that good a driver in comparison to others (like Kimi) to be fair. It's was his car, and always has been - which was pretty evident this season from ferarri's piss poor performance.

Not that I'm saying hes bad, cos hes definately one of the best, but I wouldnt say miles above the rest like most people seem to think.

Button - theres one to look out for next season :D

[tristancliffe]

Ferrari have an excellent reliability record in the past few years, whereas McLaren don't seem to have had a trustworthy engine since Paul Morgan died.

Did you see the way Ron was behaving after the race? He clearly knows that Kimi's making plans to leave. He looked like a bloke who knows he's about to get jilted.

Or he's emotional to have finally seen proof that he has the next Mika!

MS is better OVERALL than anyone out there, but age is reducing the gap year on year.

Alonso is more intelligent. More like Prost was
Kimi is quicker. More like Senna/Hakinnen
Schumi has done it all, so doesn't need to prove anything. Incomparible to anyone really, but Alonso is closest overall.
Button is seriously good, but will never be a Kimi or Fernando. We'll win races, and maybe a championship, but in the same car he'd be beaten by them (but he'll crush Rubens).

[Gunn]

MS aint that good a driver in comparison to others (like Kimi) to be fair. It's was his car, and always has been - which was pretty evident this season from ferarri's piss poor performance.

Not that I'm saying hes bad, cos hes definately one of the best, but I wouldnt say miles above the rest like most people seem to think.

Button - theres one to look out for next season :DObviously you haven't follwed this man's racing career. Like him or hate him, he is absolutely one of the all-time best drivers. Ferrari more or less ceased development of their 2005 car to concentrate on next year's (V8) car. Coupled with ailing areodynamic design and shitty Bridgestone tyres Ferrari have certainly struggled. But take a look at the constructor's championship and you will see the work MS has done with an inferior car. I doubt more than one or two other F1 drivers could have achieved such a result. If you doubt Michael's ability, the other driver's do not. He is a cut above most drivers and most of them freely aknowledge it (except for JPM who seems to have trouble accepting that anyone else has skill except for himself).

Michael suffers from tall poppy syndrome and when he retires people will find someone else to kick. Meanwhile Michael's amazing record speaks for itself:

1973 - 1987 Karting

1984
Germain Junior Champion

1985
German Junior Champion (also takes part in Junior World Championship)

1986
3rd in German Championship
3rd in European Championship

1987
German Champion
European Champion

1988
Wins Formula Konig Championship
6th in Formula Ford 1600 German Championship
2nd in Formula Ford 1600 Eurpoean Championship

1989
2nd in the Formula 3 German Championship

1990
1st in the Formula 3 German Championship
5th in the Sport Prototype World Championship (Sauber Mercedes)

1991
9th in the Sport Prototype World Championship (Sauber Mercedes)
2nd in the Sugo round of the Japanese Formula 3000 Championship
Michael gets a chance to try F1 (Mercedes pay 150 000 pounds to buy Michael a drive with Eddie Jordan, for one race), unfortunatley he retired on this occasion.
He joins Benetton in F1 after escaping Jordan's flimsy contract via a loophole. He gets 12th in the driver's championship in this, his first year n F1.

1992
3rd in the F1 driver's championship (Benetton).

1993
4th in the F1 driver's championship (Benetton).

1994
1st in the F1 driver's championship (Benetton) despite missing two races and retiring from two others.

1995
1st in the F1 driver's championship (Benetton) despite retiring from four races.

1996
Michael drives Ferrari out of the F1 wilderness by achieveing a 3rd place in the driver's championship.

1997
Despite a strong season Michael was excluded from the championship rankings after an incident at Jerez involving Jaques Villeneuve. Despite four retirements he finishes with a hefty 78 points. (Ferrari)

1998
2nd in the F1 driver's championship. (Ferrari)

1999
5th in the F1 driver's championship. (Ferrari)

2000
1st in the F1 driver's championship. (Ferrari)

2001
1st in the F1 driver's championship. (Ferrari)

2002
1st in the F1 driver's championship with 3 races to spare. (Ferrari)

2003
1st in the F1 driver's championship. (Ferrari)

2004
1st in the F1 driver's championship. (Ferrari)

2005
Season still in progress as I write this (Alonso has clinched the title for Renault this year in an inspired season). Michael is 3rd in the driver's championship currently. Even taking into account Michelin's embarassing failure to provide a useable tyre at Indianapolis, (and assuming that Michael would not have won otherwise) this year's results prove that even in an underperforming car this man is one of the strongest racers in F1 today.

Only about 22 guys get to race F1 each year. Each and every one of them is a professional racer of high calibre. All of them are accomplished racers of great skill. You don't get to stand out in such a crowd by being ordinary. Many F1 drivers never even win a single Grand Prix race in a career which could last more than a decade. That's why you see tears in their eyes when they win even one seemingly insignificant race, it is a big achievement to best your F1 rivals.

Is Schumacher one of the best drivers of all time? Hell yes. He has consistently out-performed every team mate he ever had, and all of them were worthy of their position in F1. Even without quoting the many records Michael has claimed over the years his achievements are highly regarded by the people who count the most: his own peers.

[joshdifabio]

MS aint that good a driver in comparison to others (like Kimi) to be fair. It's was his car, and always has been - which was pretty evident this season from ferarri's piss poor performance.

Not that I'm saying hes bad, cos hes definately one of the best, but I wouldnt say miles above the rest like most people seem to think.

Button - theres one to look out for next season :D

Make your mind up. I hate hearing all these anti-schumacher clowns that try and knock michael all the time when he is obviously one of the best drivers in f1 history. Since he has been at ferrari he has come close to winning numerous championships in an insuperior car. (As well as winning 5 in a row)

[Gunn]

So you are saying these other drivers are not good?

As a comparison let's look at Renault this year. Alosno has won the driver's championship, but his team mate, Fisi, has done much worse throughout the entire season in similar equipment. So Alonso winning the Championship, was that just because he had the best car (like Fisi did)? Or does young Fernando have something that others lack? I'd hate people to think Alonso only won due to his car, especially since he raced with such skill, determination and guts all year, as he did last year, as he did even when he was with Minardi... the slowest car.

If Alonso goes on to win multiple world championships will he become the new Schumacher, ridiculed for his outstanding success?

I remember watching Michael battle with the likes of Senna, Prost, Mansell and being amazed at his ability and understanding of any given race.

When Senna was failing due to a poor car did anybody decide all of a sudden that he only ever won because of the machine under him? No, he was different, outstanding despite his equipment, not unlike Michael.

How many championships did Sterling Moss win? One of the best drivers of all time.

[tristancliffe]

Can I just add to my post above on driver ratings. This takes into account the fact that the drivers ARE world class drivers with a huge amount of skill (even the relatively rubbish ones).

Sato: Should not be in F1. Should remain in GP2 for the rest of his career. Not quick, intelligent, cool, or safe.
Montoya: Should not be in F1. Should remain in (the American equivalent of) GP2 for the rest of his career. Not intelligent, cool, or safe. Schumi, Kimi, Alonso etc would not have put themselves in the position to be punted off by backmarkers, or where Villeneuve had no chance of seeing him

I rate these two as by far the worst overall drivers in F1 right now. Leave, and let someone else have a play. At least Villeneuve, who was terrible at the start of the year, made an effort to improve...

[StewartFisher]

Sato: Should not be in F1. Should remain in GP2 for the rest of his career. Not quick, intelligent, cool, or safe.
Montoya: Should not be in F1. Should remain in (the American equivalent of) GP2 for the rest of his career. Not intelligent, cool, or safe. Schumi, Kimi, Alonso etc would not have put themselves in the position to be punted off by backmarkers, or where Villeneuve had no chance of seeing him
Why did Villeneuve have no chance of seeing him? He had mirrors, didn't he? JV had a slow exit from the chicane because he missed it...he should have been expecting people to pass him. These are racing drivers. That means they race, not sit behind people because it might possibly be a bit risky. Unless you're Rubens Barrichello, of course...
You may well be right about the incident in Turkey but from what I heard about the Spa incident, Pizzonia came from nowhere and took him out.

[tristancliffe]

Have you seen an F1 mirror? They are tiny, and wheels/wings etc get in the way. I doubt Villeneuve would expect anyone to go round the outside there. Couldn't he have waited 3 seconds, and used the McLarens superior speed to overtake safely? Not Montoya.

As for Pizzonia incident. Montoya is cruising to the finish. His team must have been aware Pizzonia was faster at that stage. Do you really think Kimi/Alonso/Schumi Snr would have crashed into Pizzonia? I think not. They are world champions (or will be). Montoya will never will the Championship.

[xaotik]

Button - theres one to look out for next season

Well we'll be hearing of him (over and over and over again) until the hype bubble blows thanks to his dad/agent/whoever. He's fast (sometimes - usually when BAR was cheating) but just doesn't have that "magic" you can feel when watching an in-car of Raikkonen for exaple (watching him trying different approaches and lines when attempting to overtake MS was impressive).

[Gunn]

Honda have invested in Button for the next 5 years I believe, and Honda are not playing around, they want to take him to the world championship.
I honestly think Sato just tries too hard to make up for past shortcomings and I fear his days are numbered.

As for shunting and punting, they all do it or have done it at some time. With experience it happens less, if they manage to keep their drive (and their career) for that long.

Barrichello, (remember the guy who piloted the Stewart through the pouring rain in Monaco to a historic 3rd place amongst a classier field?) we must remember he was contracted as number 2 driver for Ferrari and that's the role he agreed to play. I imagine he would be a bit sour these past few races, it would be good to see the old Barrichello back again in a new car.

Montoya still doesn't seem happy and I have never felt that he was comfortable in his job at F1, but he can drive despite his apparent attitude towards others.

Kimi only knows one way to drive - Flat Out He is still inexperienced and will be formidable when he learns to pace his car better, this guy will be a real force if he stays in F1. Relatively inexperienced before F1, he has risen fast and has great potential.

Alonso. Well some gutsy driving in Japan but I had visions of the Monaco Tunnel in 2004 when he braved an outside pass and hit the marbles ... then the wall. Great skill, but look after your life young Alonso!

Webber. Ho hum, nothing much to say. Pull your finger out lad or you'll be driving taxis by 2007. Needs experience yet but perhaps a fast Williams (on Bridgestones!) will save the day.

Some new teams next year, lots of new money and the inevitable plethora of new rules. Every year the FIA tries to slow the cars down and every year the measures fail to do the trick. Cosworth have a good engine apparently and we know Ferrari have been developing their V8 fervently. Toyota are beginning to shine, Honda money will be there for the new Team Honda, Red Bull money in two teams.... man this is going to be interesting. Hard to pick next year's flavour.

[vpr01]

my point about schumacher was clearly taken the wrong way. i said he was one of the best, but i guess what i was trying to get at was that he's lost a lot of his drive and motivation or seems to have. either that or the car really is that bad this year, but i cant see that being the main reason.

with regard to jenson, he has the pace and the hunger for victory. he just hasnt had the car to do it yet. what with BAR penalised early season 2005 and having reliability issues etc in previous years, its no wonder he hasnt won a race yet. 2004 was probably his best, when he was on the podium quite regularly. i hope honda give him the team and reliability he needs.

anyway, i woulda said mansell was better than MS :P

[Lible]

Ehm, tristancliffe talks like estonian live commentators.

They think that:

If the driver don`t go pit very early, then the driver is moving with fuel vapor

If the driver is tryng to pass someone, then he is showing himself in the guy he is tryng to pass mirrors.

And so on....

[Hyperactive]

I think M Schumacher is a fast driver, but he has no skill of fair play or fair passing. Every time someone is trying to pass him, he uses every dirty trick to not make it happen (change line all the time, force you off the track...or hit you with the intentions to damage your car). Ask Damon Hill about it :). And have you seen him do any good passes. The only way he passes people is during pit stops :)

Sorry, not meant to make you Schumi-fans feel bad, just my objective opinion about him. No matter how much I dislike the man, he still is multi-times world champion, which any of the other drivers aren't.

Offtopic:
I just can't believe the McLaren can't make their engines last for 2 races. Even the minardis do better. And the BMW has lost it totally...

[Gunn]

I think M Schumacher is a fast driver, but he has no skill of fair play or fair passing. Every time someone is trying to pass him, he uses every dirty trick to not make it happen (change line all the time, force you off the track...or hit you with the intentions to damage your car). Ask Damon Hill about it :). And have you seen him do any good passes. The only way he passes people is during pit stops :)Err, there are strict rules and if he broke them he was penalised. What you are seeing is defensive driving, not dirty tricks.

[tristancliffe]

And on Sunday he was as fair as a fair thing on National Fair day, so you can't really say he's all evil etc

[Gunn]

I like him too, but he will not live long if he insists on overtaking on the dirty part of the outside of high speed corners.

[tristancliffe]

Alonso:
Last year = learning year.

This year = applying year - only one mistake really.

Montoya
Last Year = Noob

This Year = Noob

All subsequent years = Noob

Sato = Montoya.

[Hyperactive]

Err, there are strict rules and if he broke them he was penalised. What you are seeing is defensive driving, not dirty tricks.

Well everytime someone gets side by side to him on a corner he tries to force the other one off the road. Was it Ralf in Imola last year and...

[Hyperactive]

And on Sunday he was as fair as a fair thing on National Fair day, so you can't really say he's all evil etc

He's plain evil and that's it:)

[JamesF1]

Note that Ferrari has been [re-]built around Schumacher. And who says that Raikkonen would be able to have Ferrari built around him in the same way? I doubt that Ferrari with the absence of Schumacher will be as much of a formidable force as they have been in recent history.

[collinss]

:iagree:

[JamesF1]

Expanding on what I said, don't get me wrong, Raikkonen is an amazingly talented driver, but is he a "team manager" or a point of team motivation like Schumacher is? I'm not sure he is.

[ayrton senna 87]

Well everytime someone gets side by side to him on a corner he tries to force the other one off the road. Was it Ralf in Imola last year and...

these lads are on the track fighting for their racing careers, and its the simple law of physics that if they commit to a corner they just slow down.

if he drove like a pussy he wouldnt win anything

and to be honest, these guys just dont let people pass like LFS drivers do.

[sinbad]

Alonso:
Last year = learning year.

This year = applying year - only one mistake really.

Montoya
Last Year = Noob

This Year = Noob

All subsequent years = Noob

Sato = Montoya.

I disagree, and I think if McLaren sorts out the reliability issues but keeps the speed advantage, then the only reason Montoya will never be world champion, is Kimi.

You can't win the Champcar title by accident, he obviously is a winner and not a "Noob" -god I hate that "word" :)
Standards are high in F1, and not everyone can win the title, maybe he won't ever win it, but I wouldn't rule him out, he's good enough to beat Kimi fair and square on occasion.

[JamesF1]

:iagree:

[ajp71]

I disagree, and I think if McLaren sorts out the reliability issues but keeps the speed advantage, then the only reason Montoya will never be world champion, is Kimi.

You can't win the Champcar title by accident, he obviously is a winner and not a "Noob" -god I hate that "word" :)
Standards are high in F1, and not everyone can win the title, maybe he won't ever win it, but I wouldn't rule him out, he's good enough to beat Kimi fair and square on occasion.

Montoya's fast, but far too inconsistant to hope to finish enough races to win the title.

[tristancliffe]

And gets involved in silly accidents as well as making unforced (or just slightly forced) errors!!

[sinbad]

And gets involved in silly accidents as well as making unforced (or just slightly forced) errors!!

Well, maybe I'll eat my words, but I like Monty, have done ever since I first saw him in F3000. He's talented without a doubt, passionate and aggressive, with an occasionally "all or nothing" attitude that wins (and loses) titles, and is why Kimi kept going in the last lap at the Nurburgring, he has it too.

I do think JPM could win the title, and will certainly contend for it if his car is good enough next year. He, of course, may never win it, but with Kimi and Alonso on the scene who else will? Button? Klien? Webber? Maybe play-it-safe-Fisichella:)

[ayrton senna 87]

Now if you could win championships based on how nice your wife's boobs were, then he'd be in with a chance.

any info on how i can become a scrutineer for that championship?

[lefty]

any info on how i can become a scrutineer for that championship?

Maleboobs don't count.

[jtr99]

I agree with Sinbad: I think Montoya's record in the US shows that he's not the clown Tristan is making him out to be. Why so down on JPM, Tristan? I agree that he could be more consistent, and a little less hot-headed, but the talent is there surely. And "noob" is a very strong word to be using for someone who (we have already agreed) is in a pretty elite driving club.

As for Sato, well: I have a soft spot for the guy because I used to race online with him in a Nascar 4 league. By the standards of online racing, he was clean, polite, and very fair, so I hate to hear a bad word said about him. Lovely chap. I wish I could point to some positive things about his recent performance in F1, however.

[ayrton senna 87]

omg are u serious?

[JamesF1]

DENDY! Of course he's serious :p:nod:

[tristancliffe]

Oh yes Montoya has strong points. He's quick, aggressive, brave. But he's simply not good enough to be a world champion. He's a great driver, but in a field of equally or greater drivers. Not his fault about the manhole cover today, but it was interesting to hear that Kimi could see it. Maybe Montoya just needs contact lenses. But I can't honestly see why McLaren wanted him. There are much better drivers out there who would have easily beaten Schumi to 3rd in the best car on the grid...

On the other hand, Schumi made a silly error today. Probably born out of frustration more than anything, but even the best driver in the world for so many years can make schoolboy errors.