Graphical effects == better sales

[Nadeo4441]

I know this has been suggested

So after a pretty long conversation with my friend, I decided to write this post. I was asking him why he finds dirt2 a better game than "LFS". He clearly answered: atmosphere(feeling). He was playing LFS for a while, and he was bored by the oldness of graphics. I also know that LFS is not intended to be a "screenshot generator", but come on, nobody will buy a game with no effects whatsoever. I'm taking about sparks, better shadows... well dx10 level stuff.
My point is that if Scavier wants to sell LFS to a larger group of people, not just HC simracers, it needs better atmosphere.
Now, I don't know exactly why I wrote this, and I know it won't propably change anything, but I'm just curious about the community's opinion on this.

Do you think that graphics shoud be a higher priority than physics or content?
(I'm not saying that I want it that way, just curious about your opinions)

[MadCatX]

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=69054 :)

[MadCatX]

...My point is that if Scavier wants to sell LFS to a larger group of people, not just HC simracers, it needs better atmosphere...
Now, I don't know exactly why I wrote this, and I know it won't propably change anything, but I'm just curious about the community's opinion on this.


I'm sorry for this chain posting, but this kind of argument has been used multiple times lately and I just can't leave it uncommented today.

You won't sell a grenade launcher to a pacifist and so you won't sell a hardcore racing sim to a causal "racer". Even if LFS had the best graphics out there so people would go try it out to see some nice eyecandy, how many of them would play it for more than few minutes? Sooner or later would majority of these guys turn LFS down realizing they cannot do BL GP faster than in 1:40. They'd happily return to NFS:S or whatever other games they play to get their Bugatti Veyron around Nordschleife in less than 6 mintutes, enjoying the disillusion of being a hell of a driver...

[Inouva]

I'm sorry for this chain posting, but this kind of argument has been used multiple times lately and I just can't leave it uncommented today.

You won't sell a grenade launcher to a pacifist and so you won't sell a hardcore racing sim to a causal "racer". Even if LFS had the best graphics out there so people would go try it out to see some nice eyecandy, how many of them would play it for more than few minutes? Sooner or later would majority of these guys turn LFS down realizing they cannot do BL GP faster than in 1:40. They'd happily return to NFS:S or whatever other games they play to get their Bugatti Veyron around Nordschleife in less than 6 mintutes, enjoying the disillusion of being a hell of a driver...

Brillant description, you have my respect

[Nadeo4441]

You know, I was once playing NFSU and I was happy, then I downloaded the LFS demo from lfs.net, and it interested me. Although I'm not a big racer(I like drifting), I bought the game and that's it. Now I hate all NFS games for being so arcadish, I play rFactor, LFS, I even tryed netCar. I'm talking about cases like me.

[hp999]

DX10 would take even more time to get it coded. If it will be done, I know who to blame.:tilt:

[hazaky]

Damn u kids, u need only enough graphics to understand the enviroment around u. Why do people play runescape and yet dont whine about the 1998 year graphics? Because its about the game itself. More eye candy is good for sure but real gamers cant judge a game over graphics. Visual effects are the last thing u should watch when buying a game.

[Nadeo4441]

LFS has good graphics for me and other simracers, but new people won't buy it, that is my point.

[zeugnimod]

LFS has good graphics for me and other simracers, but new people won't buy it, that is my point.

And the counterarguement is that those people who are all about the graphics won't buy it anyway because LFS is far too hard for them.

[Nadeo4441]

That is true, but you have to agree with me that better graphics would mean more sales.

[dadge]

And the counterarguement is that those people who are all about the graphics won't buy it anyway because LFS is far too hard for them.and that imo is a good thing. for me LFS has enough eye candy to help you understand you are in a virtual car. everything else is not needed. an easy work around would be to introduce night racing. then all that eye candy is useless because it's dark lol.

That is true, but you have to agree with me that better graphics would mean more sales. better graphics would mean a alot of current users would be unable to play lfs. alot of laptop users would be in this bracket too. i think one of LFS' unique selling points is that it can be run on reletivley low end machines and still offer then same experience as if it were on the high end machines we all wish we had.

because of LFS's staying power (not too much bling/eye candy) it's (imo) managed to go the distance. if you look here: http://compactiongames.about.com/od/topgames/tp/topten2003.htm you'll find the top ten games of 2003. how many of them do you still play? and lets be honest. all those games in that list look(ed) really good. but the titles get churned out so fast you don't get to explore the game as much as you have done with LFS.
for me more eye candy = shorter attention span. i have Dirt2 i have it maxed out and running on dx11. i don't play it any more. why? i've seen everything it has to offer. i play rbr alot more than i do dirt2. simply because the physics and game play are 10 times better than dirt 2 but dirt 2's graphics are at least 4 times as good as rbr's

imo, LFS is like the Shawshank Redemption. you don't watch that movie because of who's in it. you watch because it's a great movie. adding more graphics to lfs would be like turning it into alien v's predetor. great for a quick blast but you won't remember much about it.

[Live For Kill]

That is true, but you have to agree with me that better graphics would mean more sales.

And the counterarguement is that those people who are all about the graphics won't buy it anyway because LFS is far too hard for them.

[Nadeo4441]

Even small details like dirty front-glass would help...

[fatalunfair]

Get dirt on your monitor then...

[Nadeo4441]

Funny, not... This is what I expected, I wanted to discuss this normally. LFSF is always about trying to be funny, isn't it?

[dadge]

Funny, not... This is what I expected, I wanted to discuss this normally. LFSF is always about trying to being funny, isn't it?come on buddy, the guy mate one comment. he didn't flame anyone. he's was offering a (quite funny) cheaper alternitive. it's only a bit of light hearted humour. the thread has not lost its way.

[Silverracer]

...but you have to agree with me that better graphics would mean more sales.

Agreed. But thats not what they're focusing on at the moment, are they? At the end of the day, its Scawen that would have to write the code so that you'll end up with a bit of dirt on your windscreen...

And its not like they're aiming for sales with LFS... things would be much different (good or bad depedning from one's point of view) if they were going for sales. Thank god [Scavier] for that.

Physics > Content > Graphics.

Edit:


I'm not saying that I want it that way, just curious about your opinions
Key point: IMO you should make the font normal or bigger, but not smaller!


Do you think that graphics shoud be a higher priority than physics or content?
No. For me, personally, the physics are ok. So are the graphics. I could be happier with more content. But still, I'm relatively new and still got plenty of [existing] LFS content to go through for the coming years,

[Nadeo4441]

I guess you're right.

[icebox666]

i want that the graphics turned a little higher.
becouse i can do better with my system and i think a lot of players can.
and content maybe more aswel.
like more cars and stuff.
what i wanna see is more american type cars muscle v8.

and maybe a good thing for lfs.
just suggesting like sort of garage that you can mod your cars legal.
like buying turbo's superscharger's spoiler's fender's Upgrade off suspesion engine ect ect.
picking your own rims and such.
sound like nfs(need for speed) i know but its a great app on lfs i think.

some other idee's like real drift course's/tracks.
that we can change turbo speed in setups.

This are just idee's of things that can change so dont blame me for stupid idee's plz.
and sorry for typ fail.
Got one broken hand
TY Greeting icebox666

[CodieMorgan]

You know, I was once playing NFSU and I was happy, then I downloaded the LFS demo from lfs.net, and it interested me. Although I'm not a big racer(I like drifting), I bought the game and that's it. Now I hate all NFS games for being so arcadish, I play rFactor, LFS, I even tryed netCar. I'm talking about cases like me.

Im exactly the same way D:

I cant stand Arcade Games anymore (Except for Rollcage )

[cargame.nl]

Lol...

Poll says it all. Gameplay is most important (physics, overall handling)

Content follows. I voted for content btw.

I want to see TVE happy with his rallypack :razz:

[Bmxtwins]

Physics and content, the graphics are fine.... Jeeeezzz

[Trekkerfahrer]

I know this has been suggested

So after a pretty long conversation with my friend, I decided to write this post. I was asking him why he finds dirt2 a better game than "LFS". He clearly answered: atmosphere(feeling). He was playing LFS for a while, and he was bored by the oldness of graphics. I also know that LFS is not intended to be a "screenshot generator", but come on, nobody will buy a game with no effects whatsoever. I'm taking about sparks, better shadows... well dx10 level stuff.
My point is that if Scavier wants to sell LFS to a larger group of people, not just HC simracers, it needs better atmosphere.
Now, I don't know exactly why I wrote this, and I know it won't propably change anything, but I'm just curious about the community's opinion on this.

Do you think that graphics shoud be a higher priority than physics or content?
(I'm not saying that I want it that way, just curious about your opinions)

LFS is for simracers who want primerly a correct physics engine. The prime goal of programming LFS ist to be the best Online-Racing-Simulation.
I think when Scawen finished the physics, the graphical stuff will follow soon. He already said that the shadows are on his list and i think with real time shadows, the graphics will look a way better. Why do we need bump-mapping, motion blur, hdr and so on? The graphics are good as they are i think... especially with the high-res texture pack by Electric Kar (name right?).

[MadCatX]

At least this thread served some purpose by showing the real priorities of LFSers.
Next time a "we need better graphics" thread shows up, linking this poll might work like a very effective silencer:)

[Forbin]

OP: For a simracing enthusiast, you sure don't understand what simracers are after.

Let me guess, you're not actually a racer. You cruise. :scratchch

[PoVo]

Enough eye-candy at the moment, I'd rather physics, than some NFS Shift like stuff.

[Breizh]

Don't need DX10 for immersive graphics.

[hazaky]

Don't need DX10 for immersive graphics.
True, DX9 can deliver enough good ones already :razz:

Just sayin, but we dont need more. The graphics are the smallest thing i look into when playing LFS. Its a damn simulator, not just a game. I could now also say that "want graphics?, go play nfs".

[Breizh]

The impression I get from the OP is a major underestimation of the relative importance of good art over which pixel shader versions and whatnot the art is rendered with.

[Nadeo4441]

Well, I was just curious about your opinion guys :smileypul. I agree on that poll says it all. Physics> content > graphics. But you know, what is good physics for if there is few content and relatively old graphics? You guys should read the whole thread before posting, I just brought up that graphics update might get the devs more sales.

OP: For a simracing enthusiast, you sure don't understand what simracers are after.
Let me guess, you're not actually a racer. You cruise. :scratchch
I don't cruise.

[VoiD]

...Do you think that graphics shoud be a higher priority than physics or content?

No :D

[Forbin]

Well, I was just curious about your opinion guys :smileypul. I agree on that poll says it all. Physics> content > graphics. But you know, what is good physics for if there is few content and relatively old graphics? You guys should read the whole thread before posting, I just brought up that graphics update might get the devs more sales.

If LFS had a few good cars, a few good tracks, 10 year old graphics, and physics that are absolutely spot on, it'd be a sim racer's paradise.

You really don't want anyone on track with you who buys a game based on the graphics.