Patch creating poor connections??? [SOLVED] it was ISP (Talktalk) [Archive]

mrbogeyman

22nd April 2006, 16:10

SEE MY FINAL POST #27

Now this maybe completely coincidental, but since installing the new patch I have had nothing but grief when trying to play online.

Constant disconnects from servers, at seemingly random intervals as well as trouble connecting to the servers in the first instance. Even refreshing the server list is not a tedious ordeal compared to before. Before the patch, I would regularly have 44ms pings to most servers, and could stay connected all night. However, now I have 80ms pings minimum and the server list takes ages.

Now I thought it must be my side creating the problems, but after spending all yesterday trying to find a problem, I am still scratching my head.

The only period of long connection time I had was from midnight last night until about 3am :D However, having tried again today to race at ‘normal’ hours I discovered that the problem remains.

Now, I still think it is probably a problem at my end, and I will run a test later to see what it is like from another system, but I would like to hear what other people think. Possibly even if the devs have changed any of the NET code?

Just 10mins ago, I connected up again, only to find it slow. When I eventually got onto a server, a few people said they had been experiencing similar problems since the patch. So is it possibly anything to do with the patch, or just me and a few others?

My connection is a 1Mb/256Kb ADSL line from TalkTalk (UK). Previously it has been perfectly reliable, and even now after running speed tests, I get good results. I even downloaded the whole new S2 to see if that would solve my problem, but it came down at a constant rate of 100Kb +. So where does the problem lie?

I am running a Netgear Firewall/Router DG834 on which I have just updated the firmware in an effort to fix this problem.

Any suggestions or tests I can run would be greatly appreciated. I used Dan Elwells speed test btw.

Thanks

edit: I just ran another speedtest, and it showed some levels of packet loss(4% and 16%), is this normal?

I am leaning towards thinking it might be packet loss, as download speeds are relatively ok, but pings are higher than normal. Also, contention ratio should not be a problem as I stay in a smallish village and have never had such issues before.

NotAnIllusion

22nd April 2006, 16:41

I don't think it's the code, after installing the patch and going online I did think it was though. Constant disconnections and I was lagging badly when I shouldn't have been. Left the server, went on another one and later went back only to find I was back to the normal connection speed and quality. Haven't had any probs since.

mrbogeyman

22nd April 2006, 19:16

i have tried numerous server, and generally all my pings are now worse.
i will keep trying, and also maybe try something like Q3 or HL2 to test my connection.

filur

22nd April 2006, 21:09

I just ran another speedtest, and it showed some levels of packet loss(4% and 16%), is this normal?.

Not the end of the world, but not very good (16% :zombie:), might just be your link to that particular speedtest, most online/web tests are incredibly incorrect for obvious reasons.

No problems with T for me, few hours yesterday, 80 minute run in an endu race just now, no disconnections or lag at all.

mrbogeyman

22nd April 2006, 21:50

after numerous tests and different permutations, i am down to considering it being my outside line or the patch. more likely the line. i will try another game right now to verify this.

mrbogeyman

22nd April 2006, 22:45

now i have tried ALL permutations! :D :pillepall

i tried an old patch (thanks Ed) and got the same results.

i also tried Doom3, which worked perfectly. :shrug:

any difference between the packets for LFS and Doom3?

doom3 pings seemed pretty slow as well though.

however, i am coming to the conclusion that it is a dodgy line atm, possible to do with exchange upgrades that are happening in UK (dsl max i think). LFS seems to be particularly sensitive to it anyway. :schwitz: and it had to be now.......... :doh:

mrbogeyman

22nd April 2006, 23:40

Another update.

After using Pingplotter (awesome tool! thanks again Ed! :D ) I can see that I am getting intermittent packet losses. almost anywhere, and even on my exchange.

It would seem my ISP (TalkTalk) currently have a crap network, or are upgrading, so I am currently out of LFS action :(

southamptonfc

24th April 2006, 12:46

I have noticed problems since the S patch too. Its not as bad for me, but I have noticed other drivers jump around quite a bit more than before and I got a 'wrong size packet' error when trying to join a server yesterday.

So for me, there is definitely something not quite as good as before S.

mrodgers

24th April 2006, 13:08

I raced a good bit on Brazil servers over the weekend. I'm in the US and on dialup (45-46k connection). Pings were 400+ ms. I asked and noone said there was a problem with me lagging and I disconnected I think twice in the servers all weekend. Once for trying to get on the Inferno site while connected to LFS server and once just random lagging out from the connection

mrbogeyman

24th April 2006, 14:36

good to see the good old dial-up works pretty well then :D

i am pretty certain it is a crap line anyway. nothing to do with LFS, other than the fact it uses UDP packets, which i think are affected badly by a didgy line. either that or they have no way of compensating for packet loss.

something like that...........

anyway, i sent a email to my ISP to see what the story is.

kOBAIN

25th April 2006, 17:01

is anyone getting the problem where you cant see any other games?? but can join off a friends username ??? mines playin up something rotten now

mrbogeyman

25th April 2006, 18:52

well, not being able to easily refresh the server list is a symptom of my problem. but it usually comes through after a few tries.

mrbogeyman

20th May 2006, 00:22

IReallyHateBureaucracy

20th May 2006, 00:58

BUMP!

Just a quick question for those of you in the know....

Does any part of the LFS network, i.e. Master Server, reset at approximately midnight or shortly after?

I ask this because LFS starts to run perfectly online after about this time. It is not a gradual thing, it is instant. One moment racing online is impossible with 150ms average pings, the next it is 40ms pings and working like it was before!

So, is it something on the LFS side?

Otherwise, does anyone have any knowledge of what ISPs/Network exchanges do that could explain this? i.e. do they auto-reset at this time of night? Does the network magically clean up somehow? I checked with ping-plotter when it started running perfectly and I still get packet losses??!!

I am really at a loss as to what is causing this and I intend to phone the ISP again tomorrow, but I would like something more specific to ask about.

Many thanks again.

I'm not expert enough to say for sure but I know that a lot of ISPs lease their time off other people, so if it is the same time every day it might be that you get switched from one network to another, or a network stops leasing space on yours, that kind of thing. The packet loss could be happening on a different part of the journey between your computer and the server, so it wouldn't change - the same percentage of loss at a higher speed would have less effect on the game, I think. I'm being vague because I don't know all the details but if there's a pattern you can see there's a reason somewhere... if you kept a log of exactly when it was happening you'd find your ISP would figure it out, I'm sure.

SparkyDave

20th May 2006, 10:34

Theres a BT auto line/fault test computer that checks lines at around midnight and knocks your router/modem out for about 30 secs if you phone them up you can get it stoped to your line :)

The UK is undergoing another speed shift in ADSL at the moment BT are pushing out 8Mb and 16Mb downstream speeds where costomers are close to enabled exchanges and increasing most 512Kb and 1Mb users to 2Mb and above . While this is all well and good for downloading music the state of BT's lines downstream from the optics is IMO outdated and in some cases poor , even you local telephone installation in your house/flat can cause some packet loss because of the way phone cables are connected .

If your running a wireless link anywhere in your connection then this would be my first port of call :) but if not then get your ISP,s technical people to post it back to BT to check the lines and keep on at them until its fixed :)

SD.

IReallyHateBureaucracy

20th May 2006, 11:23

There you go, someone who knows. :) I always wonder when I see the state of the inside of a BT box how it works at all, let alone well.

mrbogeyman

20th May 2006, 11:36

No, wired Netgear DG834. The router firewall has been totally checked out, it is definately not the problem.

I dont see how what you said about the line getting knocked out would affect me dave.

I am with talktalk, and surely if the line got reset i would temporarily loose connection? Which doesnt happen btw. Also, whatever it is that is happening at around midnight, is good! It sorts the line out. I need to figure out what is happening, and try and replicate it, rather than ask them to stop :D

Thanks for the info. Any other suggestions are welcome.

spsamsp

20th May 2006, 12:12

Recently, over the past few days, i have been getting a really poor connection for some reason, it used to be ok on the current patch (U) but i will ahve to test it again later... :shrug:

SparkyDave

20th May 2006, 12:37

mrbogeyman

20th May 2006, 12:51

Mrbogeyman I wonder what your connection ratio is, maybe you have some high bandwith neighbours powering down late at night ?

What rev firmware did you upgrade to (dg834) and just out of interest have you tried running just 1 PC from the router after a router reboot and checking this prob happens on more than 1 port?

SD.

Yeah, ive done all that Dave. Ive tried new firmware etc etc, and only a single PC on the router. I have tested with the original freebie ADSL modem from the ISP too.

As for the contention ratio, while it may be high, upto 50:1, I very much doubt I have any real high usage neibours. I stay in a village so I very much doubt there are that many high demand users. Especially not any who run their high-demand like clockwork and switch it off at midnight :shrug: It had crossed my mind.

Therefore I am still 90% sure it is the exchange/network. Anyway, I will phone again now and be a bit more persistant.

DEVIL 007

20th May 2006, 14:06

Ites pretty normal that home user have best connection usually around night or midnight as there is less home users using the line.
Its a problem all home lines even declared as 2mbit or whatsoever speed are in fact shared connection where other users affect the quality of the line.
ITs a pitty mostly of ADSL connection which have very high sharing ration,usually like 1:40-1:50 which may affect the line is some situation very much.
Also there might bit a intteraption on line line of the telephone cable in the ground is pretty old.There might be many factors.

mrfell

20th May 2006, 14:43

sounds very similar to my problem, ever since we changed phone company (dont pay line retal to bt) i've experienced intermitent drops, my isp (f2s) informs me there is a bt outage at my exchange, but no one at bt will talk to me because i'm not one of their customers!!!!

ChiliFan

21st May 2006, 14:24

I have connection problems too. I installed the patch, and it was all fine for about 2 weeks, then I began to experience constant D/Cs. I get the message:

'ChiliFan - CPW
Lost connection to host'

I have an older version too, and it's all fine on that one. Any idea how to fix this?

zeugnimod

21st May 2006, 14:26

Its not your connection.

Heres some info on that: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=7443

:)

ChiliFan

21st May 2006, 14:51

Its not your connection.

Heres some info on that: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=7443

:)

Thanks, all is good now.:)

mrbogeyman

26th May 2006, 15:49

Right, just to put this one to bed...sort of.

At least I now know what is causing the problem. After all my tests etc, it seems that Packet Loss is not the primary cause! Packet Loss is bad, but is not the main factor in this case.

It seems my ISP, Talktalk, have restrictions on basically the majority of ports that are NOT used primarily for browsing. So you can browse all you like and use the internet as normal, but when it comes to using P2P software or online gaming on a similar port range then you are stuffed :(

Basically the ISP is restricting these ports, making it pretty useless to try and play games online.

The way I discovered this was that at 12.30 at night, my line would go magically go back to normal! This is because the ISP lifts the port restrictions at this time of night.

I have asked my ISP to lift the restrictions to port 63392 as used by most LFS servers, but as yet I have had no luck :(

As a test to this, HackerX ran a server on port 113, which worked perfectly. So obviously some lower ranges of ports are not blocked, probably those around port 80 used for browsing.

So those of you with similar problems, I would check with your ISP about what port restrictions they have. Unfortunately for me I will have to wait untill my contract runs out before I can switch ISP and return to normal use.

mrbogeyman

17th June 2006, 00:13

This is mainly for those of you who use the Talktalk Broadband service.

LFS now works perfectly OK now. After several phone calls to Talktalk they eventually unblocked the port 63392 at my request. So those of you who also have this service should also be back to normal.

Basically the story was that the ISP restricted ports in the 6000 range (or something like that) to limit the use of P2P software, unfortunately LFS was caught up in this range.

Have fun racing again :D

anttt69

22nd August 2006, 15:53

I have just requested my ISP Orange to do the same. fingers crossed :tilt:

Fordman

22nd August 2006, 16:13

Never thought of that, nice one Mr Bogey. Going to ring my ISP ( Plusnet ) right now :thumb:

Is this something new then, as this never used to happen. Is all ISP's doing the same, due to the influx of 8mb+ BB readly availble :shrug:

mr_x

22nd August 2006, 17:37

would it not be possible for the devs to change the port that LFS uses so ISP's don't have it blocked?

I'm having problems since U20 with something similar. I get occasional lag in servers (when all the cars disappear) it lasts about 3-4 seconds every time. quite annoying when i have someone next to me and i have to guess where they are! It's not my connection as i can play any other game with little or no lag online. so could be the same problem as above. my ISP is Pipex if anyone was wondering I'm on 2mb/256k

anttt69

22nd August 2006, 22:33

would it not be possible for the devs to change the port that LFS uses so ISP's don't have it blocked?

I second the idea. (if its possible) It probably effects lots of us. How do we send requests like this to the devs?

mrbogeyman

23rd August 2006, 09:18

You might want to note that my ISP only unblocked the ports for like a week before blocking them again. Buggers! So I am now in the process of phoning etc etc again :(

The problem with changing the port for LFS, is that the ISPs often restrict a whole range of ports. And even if it were to change to a port that is currently unrestricted then I am sure the ISP would detect it and clamp down on that port too.

You can't win unless you really get your ISP sorted out. I thought I was getting close to having it sorted recently as I was speaking to tech guys who ACTUALLY KNEW(!) what I was on about and seemed like they were trying to help.

Anyway it is an ongoing mess until I change ISP when my contract runs out :(

mrbogeyman

23rd August 2006, 09:40

@ Fordy & anyone else phoning their ISP:

They will most likely throw the 'fair usage policy' excuse at you. Just like has been done to me. Even though I am supposedly paying for an 'unlimited' service! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

hmm, cancellation fee = £70....ouch

Jakg

23rd August 2006, 10:33

They will most likely throw the 'fair usage policy' excuse at you. Just like has been done to me. Even though I am supposedly paying for an 'unlimited' service! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRi think it's fair for you to use a small amount of bandwidth on a perfectly legal game using the service you pay for instead of port 80 downloads

mrbogeyman

23rd August 2006, 10:55

i think it's fair for you to use a small amount of bandwidth on a perfectly legal game using the service you pay for instead of port 80 downloads

exactly. but they dont.

I think Pipex are going to get my custom soon....

Jakg

23rd August 2006, 11:38

exactly. but they dont.well have you tried explaining to them that you think its unfair that you are limited on what you pay good money for and that the newspapers would like to here about it? :D

mrbogeyman

23rd August 2006, 11:41

well have you tried explaining to them that you think its unfair that you are limited on what you pay good money for and that the newspapers would like to here about it? :D

I can't be arsed, and I have tried politely already. I don't fancy screaming at some scouser wifey who doesn't actually understand what im on about.

the_angry_angel

23rd August 2006, 11:47

I can't be arsed, and I have tried politely already. I don't fancy screaming at some scouser wifey who doesn't actually understand what im on about.Vote with your feet. Move ISP.

If you request a MAC (Migration Code) from Plusnet they HAVE to give you one, and assuming you aren't going to keep any kit they gave you, they shouldn't charge you. Give that code to your new ISP and you dont have to go through the faff that you do with cancelling and then ordering again.

mrbogeyman

23rd August 2006, 11:52

TheAni

23rd August 2006, 21:10

can't we ust change the port the game uses?

the_angry_angel

23rd August 2006, 21:17

can't we ust change the port the game uses?If you fancy talking every server admin into changing the port, then yes. The problem being that any high port number (> 1024) is usually throttled and blocked by ISPs, if they do it at all, and running non-standard applications on ports < 1024 isnt a recommended practise.

NotAnIllusion

24th August 2006, 12:25

Vote with your feet. Move ISP.

If you request a MAC (Migration Code) from Plusnet they HAVE to give you one, and assuming you aren't going to keep any kit they gave you, they shouldn't charge you. Give that code to your new ISP and you dont have to go through the faff that you do with cancelling and then ordering again.
From experience, when you request a MAC code make absolutely sure you do not mention anything about closing your account with them, or alternatively spelling it out very clearly they are not to close it. Some ISPs punish leaving customers by giving a MAC code and closing the account anyway (which means you have to wait 2 weeks and the code is useless).

antman2006

26th August 2006, 07:50

Thanks for your email. Ihug does not currently practice any port blocking, and the only throttling or rate restriction we do is limiting a customer to 64kbps when they go over their monthly data allowance.

__________________________________________________ __-

I didn't think it was that :|

TheAni

26th August 2006, 07:51

Therefore this case is not solved!! :scratchch

mrbogeyman

28th August 2006, 11:43

Well, it is solved because I know the reason for my crap connection.

Therefore I can now do something about it, like changing ISP.

the_angry_angel

28th August 2006, 18:30

From experience, when you request a MAC code make absolutely sure you do not mention anything about closing your account with them, or alternatively spelling it out very clearly they are not to close it. Some ISPs punish leaving customers by giving a MAC code and closing the account anyway (which means you have to wait 2 weeks and the code is useless).Which is an illegal practise, as far as I am aware.

antman2006

28th August 2006, 18:43

How come it says this problem is solved im still having problems? Inface I "Cant connect to master server" at the moment, so I can't have a game.

NotAnIllusion

28th August 2006, 20:16

Which is an illegal practise, as far as I am aware.
That's what I've understood as well, but after two months I now have my connection working perfectly, do I want to deal with UKO ever again, even if I might gain somehting from it? Naw, I'll just stick to what I got and make sure anyone I come in contact with knows that UKO is shite, which is good enough for me :nod:

How come it says this problem is solved im still having problems? Inface I "Cant connect to master server" at the moment, so I can't have a game.
Probably because the person who started the thread did get his problem solved.