IMPORTANT rules change [Archive]

michele0676

14th July 2010, 06:54

STARTING PROCEDURE

NO LAG LAP, only 1 official start.
In case of minor crashes people can SHIFT+P and re-join, but before the the 3rd laps of the race is started.
To avoid big crashes in first lap inext races will start with Safety Car as "flying start".
In Lap 1 Safety Car will start for first and all the racers need to follow.
Before end of Lap 1 Safety Car will enter in pit lane and the Race Leader will decide to start immediately or wait the start line.
Other racers cannot overtake BEFORE start line and all the car could be one after the one and not side by side BEFORE start line.
Overtaking before Start Line will be penalized with race disqualification.Going side by side before Start Line will be penalized with 100 points.

fermevc

14th July 2010, 08:09

:thumb:

no additional comments needed :)

IsaacPrice

14th July 2010, 08:17

I'm not sure about this. Especially at this track, the first "overtaking allowed corner" is a very bad corner to allow that for. It is a place you can make a pass, but it slows both cars down a lot when you do it there. Especially with t1 as it is at this track, its easy to make an error there because your trying to pull a gap for the 2nd sector, but nobody can pass - then everybody gets backed up as everybody stamps on the brakes not to pass = chaos. Its probably similar to having the current safety car rules that there are in F1, remember China where there was chaos. I think it will be similar. If its certain that this is the method for tonight then I am glad I'm not in that race.

I agree that something needs to be done but I don't think this is a very sensible idea. I'm not experienced with ways of starting, so I could be completely wrong, idk.

Also I saw you allowed guys who quallified for pool A to drive in Pool B. If they are close to pool B, then thats fine. But maybe there needs to be a line drawn. Allowing a guy who has managed to qualify p17 to race in pool B when his pb is faster by 5 tenths is too much IMO. I understand it might be difficult to say some can drop to pool B and some can't, so maybe in future it shouldn't be allowed at all if you don't want to have to allow some but not others. I think SOME(I'm not saying thats whats going on here) people might want to go into pool B because its easier to win and it makes the spdo stats look better.

michele0676

14th July 2010, 08:23

LOL Isaac, i don't agree with u.
That guys ask me some days ago to run in Pool A for personal reasons.
And u don't think that win in pool B it will simple... do u want see ?

About this new rules, i know that is too bad lost an important owertaking phase as the starting but it's the only way i know.

I think it work because when all cars will be at the t1 there will be sufficient space from car to car.

It will be a normal start without overtake, not a start with safety car, it's different. Tonigh we'll test it.

Puzzle

14th July 2010, 08:43

Also I saw you allowed guys who quallified for pool A to drive in Pool B. If they are close to pool B, then thats fine. But maybe there needs to be a line drawn. Allowing a guy who has managed to qualify p17 to race in pool B when his pb is faster by 5 tenths is too much IMO. I understand it might be difficult to say some can drop to pool B and some can't, so maybe in future it shouldn't be allowed at all if you don't want to have to allow some but not others. I think SOME(I'm not saying thats whats going on here) people might want to go into pool B because its easier to win and it makes the spdo stats look better.

Yeah, I missed last night race but it wasnt to race in Pool B, hell no. It was due personal reasons. And no, I don't care about spdo stats and win Pool B because Pool A it's much more competitive which is much better to race ;) I don't know if i'll be available to race tonigh (of course i'll send you a pm Michele.) But good luck if i can't make it. :thumb:

michele0676

14th July 2010, 08:47

Puzzle i sent u the race email, did u receive ?

Puzzle

14th July 2010, 08:49

Puzzle i sent u the race email, did u receive ?
:nod:

IsaacPrice

14th July 2010, 08:52

Yeah, I missed last night race but it wasnt to race in Pool B, hell no. It was due personal reasons. And no, I don't care about spdo stats and win Pool B because Pool A it's much more competitive which is much better to race ;) I don't know if i'll be available to race tonigh (of course i'll send you a pm Michele.) But good luck if i can't make it. :thumb:

I was using you as an example because you were the fastest, not because I actually thought you were. I agree with what you say about Pool A, thats why I race it but some people might think differently.

Puzzle

14th July 2010, 09:19

I was using you as an example because you were the fastest, not because I actually thought you were. I agree with what you say about Pool A, thats why I race it but some people might think differently. But i'm not one of those persons. Don't worry more about that, i'm not going to race tonight. Good luck guys :thumbsup:

Ki-Men

14th July 2010, 10:04

Racers i'm really sorry for this painful decision but i cannot see race as yesterday where too many racers drive like other do not exists ESPECIALLY during first lap.

So from now, starting tonight with the Round 2 Pool B, during first LAP is forbidden overtake BEFORE of first split of first lap.

Guys that will overtake before first split will be penalized with 100 points.

Maybe it is better to start with flying start , one lap to go to warm the tires or anything on speed limiter , and forbid owertaking before start finish line or give the green flag to go in second lap or you can take one first place and be safety car and when you go to pit in that moment start the race .
Every of this options is better than forbid owertaking on track.

michele0676

14th July 2010, 10:08

DO u think is better if i be on track on lap 1 and when i enter pit race start normally but WITHOUT overtaking beforse start line ?

Ki-Men

14th July 2010, 10:11

DO u think is better if i be on track on lap 1 and when i enter pit race start normally but WITHOUT overtaking beforse start line ?
yes , flying start .

Ki-Men

14th July 2010, 10:14

and one suggestion : the firstplaced can choose when start accelerating on straight , when he do that the others can do the same thing , lets be race then.

michele0676

14th July 2010, 10:16

Mmm it could be the right way and nice starting too. :smileypul

Let me work and decide. :thumb:

Ki-Men

14th July 2010, 10:20

just one explanation
When we do that the racers will be mostly in single line on the start off the flying lap .

michele0676

14th July 2010, 10:29

OK, i'll try to do the possible to test this solution tonigh in pool B.

michele0676

14th July 2010, 10:35

menantoll

14th July 2010, 10:38

You could ask as many as possible to turn up early to test before the race?

I am much prefering this idea to the previous idea. IMO opinion it will be more mayhem at T1. Some realise they'll have to slow down more than normal to queue up and others don't.

Edit: I typed this before your last post. Looks good, add it to the briefing before the race and all should be cool.

michele0676

14th July 2010, 10:43

You could ask as many as possible to turn up early to test before the race?

Nice idea, but every time happens that in race is an other thing ...Yesterday guys did a lot of restarting ... and every time ... a crash.This kind of starting procedure is often used in endurance series and it works fine.

xJukex

14th July 2010, 11:51

Maybe it is better to start with flying start , one lap to go to warm the tires or anything on speed limiter , and forbid owertaking before start finish line or give the green flag to go in second lap or you can take one first place and be safety car and when you go to pit in that moment start the race .
Every of this options is better than forbid owertaking on track.

Yep! Thats good thing... :thumbsup:

I think that step by step race directors can do baby race good and clean. In future we have here only good and clear racers. Maby rule change is exellent now or later..
something like this. Ok, i think that if you kick drivers out who is in two or three accidents example in two race, It helps a lot.. And offcourse if you see that some one do somethin knowingly and ruin other drivers race you may kick this kind driver out FOREVER! In Finland we have much more clean race that here and partly thats why i must focus and drive different style for here. Why we have cleaner race? We have those rules... Delete some driver becourse he is broblem is not broblem ;)
it´s take some time but maby season 3 we have good and clean race. Hope so:schwitz:

Thats only my vision:nod:

xJukex

14th July 2010, 11:59

Only BIG NOTIFICATION on home page, this kind rules. Helps a lot.:nod:
Driver start to think and respect others different way...
i mean think before move the wheel.

boothy

14th July 2010, 12:32

Jankes80

14th July 2010, 13:04

STARTING PROCEDURE

In Lap 1 Safety Car will start for first and all the racers need to follow.
Before end of Lap 1 Safety Car will enter in pit lane and the Race Leader will decide to start immediately or wait the start line.
Other racers cannot overtake BEFORE start line and all the car could be one after the one and not side by side BEFORE start line.

I think race leader should start immediately after the safety car enters pit lane. And the other racers can overtake before start line.

Imagine, race leader driving 20kph to the start line, all drivers going one after one, race leader crosses the start line and he is going full throttle when drivers for example from 25-32 positions will have to go 20kph to the start line. I wouldn't be happy if would be at the end of the grid.

By the way, you change rules so often, its not good for a league.

Ki-Men

14th July 2010, 13:22

There was a reason Star Mazda changed to standing starts in 2008, not just to give their drivers some standing start experience, but to slow the cars down into T1. A rolling start will not solve driver behaviour problem in the slightest, it simply adds further complication and means that you arrive at T1 going faster than you would from a standing start. If you have morons causing problems in your races, a rolling start won't solve the problem...

Also saying that people can shift+p and rejoin is just asking for trouble. If you know you can just go and get another car people will be willing to take more risks on the opening laps. LOTA has a good rule that says you can shift+p on lap 1, only if you take the wrong route in an incident that was caused by someone else (suppose you could extend it to heavy damage or being flipped).
I agree with you , but UFR with 45% intake restrictions is not that fast car , the problem is after standing start that in T1 eweryone come with slower speed not in maximum, and many off this drivers cant have a good judgement abaout breaking point and pushing over limit , when he come in full speed everyone knows where starts the breaking point and everyone knows if they are pushing over limit than will ended in the wall.

Rudy van Buren

14th July 2010, 14:42

Dont like this at all, roling start fine but single file and no overtaking for start finish makes it into the pussy way...

We could see yesterday that the real crash wasnt in the first corner but in the second, and that was mostly because for some people mirrors are a dificult fact and with this jumping scrapbox cars u get people flying around.

Starting like this wont fix the problem at all, will probebly just happen a corner later or something...

No overtaking before the S/F is crap with roling start, esp with the single file thing if there is 1 driver sleaping he ****s it for the rest, why not make it go wenn green and u can overtake whatever u want ( like in most leaques ) and wenn the SC is on track its not aloud to overtake before S/F...

CARRERA GT

14th July 2010, 15:09

Tbh, im not very keen on changing the rules.
IMO, changing rules on that scale during a league brings more confusions for who doesn t know anything about SC and rolling starts.
It s the racer behaviour who sould change, not the rules.
So pls keep the same way it started and if you not happy about some people racing, you can simply BAN them from the league.
Anyway, i know it s not that easy to managed 100 racers, and so far you been doing a very good job, so keep it going and thx for you re great work for this league. :)

kart-36

14th July 2010, 15:18

I think that the rolling start is good idea, but make it double file, and also, the shift + p, sack that idea, it just means 'yey i can hit people and then just pit :thumbsup:'

michele0676

14th July 2010, 15:57

Guys i'm happy to read all your impression about this.
Carrera GT say the most important thing
"It s the racer behaviour who sould change, not the rules."

How i can change your behavior at the start ?

I do not want to impose anything and i'm happy to discuss with your the best solution to the problem but i hope u agree with me that it's impossible that in a Pool A of a league at the start happens 3 times what is happened yesterday !
For me that is not acceptable !

Since i don't like change rules, that is bad and not serious.

Since i think that change rules for Pool B e C only it's bad.

I must try tonight a normal "start" in Pool B ?

But if big crashes happens again ... guys .... there are no chances for next races.

OK ?

kart-36

14th July 2010, 16:05

Deal :D
But i liked the rolling start, then i could heat my tires up on outlap :|

michele0676

14th July 2010, 16:16

Take a look on start of race 2 of yesterday.
In your opinion, how many racers i need penalize ?
For me is not simple mate.

michele0676

14th July 2010, 16:26

Other 3 guys, the "Race Judges", help me to evaluate the protests.

But during race is not simple, the problem infact is during the race, not after.

I've managed many minor champs but usually with a full pool but never i had this kind of problem and, i'm sure of this, if next year there will be a Baby UFR League the organization will not mine.
Since i'm bored of this behavior.
Since my desire to spend my free time to read only controversy is over.

Ki-Men

14th July 2010, 16:30

I think that the rolling start is good idea, but make it double file, and also, the shift + p, sack that idea, it just means 'yey i can hit people and then just pit :thumbsup:'
Well I see that in another way ,we all practice for the race in whole week and than come one idiot and my or our races are over in T1 because that idiot.

michele0676

14th July 2010, 16:48

For now 14 protest. Extra work for me and the judges.
We'll not do any kind of discount to anyone guys.

michele0676

14th July 2010, 17:00

For now ...

http://www.lfsic.net/babyufrleague/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52&Itemid=55

boothy

14th July 2010, 21:23

Take a look on start of race 2 of yesterday.
In your opinion, how many racers i need penalize ?
For me is not simple mate.

Quite simple actually. vourliotis (http://www.spdoracing.com/eventdb/driver/vourliotis) caused the Lap 1 T3 crash. NOS.Alex (http://www.spdoracing.com/eventdb/driver/NOS.Alex) gets a ban/big penalty for causing more crashes after he reversed and turned sideways instead of staying where he was. malcomax (http://www.spdoracing.com/eventdb/driver/malcomax) should be banned for what he did at the hairpin on lap 1. Mr. Homles should be warned :really: And that's just from a quick look... :schwitz:

michele0676

14th July 2010, 21:28

malcomax (http://www.spdoracing.com/eventdb/driver/malcomax) should be banned for what he did at the hairpin on lap 1

U mean when malcomax after crash with Kart move his car when othe car pass ?

Mr. Homles should be warned :really:

Only warned ?

boothy

14th July 2010, 21:34

Yes malcomax, where he crashes, stops, and then drives into the whole field, I and I'm sure other admins would give him 1 round ban at least.

Holmes did nothing wrong going into the hairpin, he was squeezed into the wall. The warning would be for what happened after T4 on lap 1.

Rudy van Buren

14th July 2010, 21:38

For now ...

http://www.lfsic.net/babyufrleague/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52&Itemid=55

U got to be kidding that u give me a 75 points penalty for that...

The guy in front of me hits the car infront of him, looses speed and then i hit his right rear, i cant help that these cars roll over that easy.
If he didnt make contact with the car infront of him i would have not hit him but just stayed close and it would have been fine.
Now i get taken in something that i didnt start of, but u do give me a harsh penalty..

There happend enough things on track where u could have given everybody penalty's for, check t3 race 2 for example, i see multiple cars bashing full throttel against me but u dont hear something about that..

Really take another look at my penalty please..