Will We Ever Drive the LX8 GTR??

[Rotary]

I was kinda hoping it would make a triumphant return to S2 in the new patch.

If LFS can handle a F1 car, surely it can handle the LX8 GTR now?? It's the prick tease of LFS and I want to bloody drive it!! :D :D

And where are the grid girls? Must me make more threads requesting them?? :D :D

Been at work all day and soon I lose my Patch T virginity (didn't get to play with Ms Patch S went to bed 10 mins before it came out. Damn you sleep before work), I'm getting a little nervous and excited, reminds me of that time in my car many moons ago when this girl and I... :x

:thumb: for the return of the LX8 GTR

Edit: Posts No.:187 - Murder, Death, Kill

[Dygear]

I've never seen the LX8, can you post an image, or link to one :).

[Rotary]

Here's some shots of it from pre S2 Alpha days.

Pretty much an LX6 but with flared guards, slicks and a V8 engine similar to the F08's.... all that equals fun! :D

[Goop]

reminds me of that time in my car many moons ago when this girl and I... :x
Watched a drive-in movie? Did laps of Main Street? Played Travel-Chess? :confused:

:woohoo: for the LX8 GTR!

[molocco]

with the updated phsics, there might be a chance that we see the lx8 in some form again. they stated already that the skins of the lx4 and lx6 are going to be updated, this might go for the rest of the cars aswell.
i seriously like to have a lx8 because i like the lx6 very much, even if it was hard to drive till yesterday...


peace mo

[herki]

I'd love to see the LX8 GTR. Maybe it would be a pain-to-drive LX again. I love the new tyre physics, but before there was the nice-to-drive LX4 and the evil LX6. Now they are both nice to drive. I want to have a evil car again :shy:

[Bob Smith]

Yeah, no excuses. LX8 for S2 final!

[hackerx]

+1

[Rappa Z]

lx8. all i see is slicks.
those could be edited. After all, on the third skin it says lx6 on it.

[Hyperactive]

LX8 GTR, RA GTR, RB4 GTR and RB4 rally.

Unless we get GTi dragster or UF1 monster truck (for teh ovals ;))

[duke_toaster]

We want LX8 GTR!

And also an RB4 GTR.

[Jakg]

lx8. all i see is slicks.
those could be edited. After all, on the third skin it says lx6 on it.look, the skins werent properly developed, but if you look in the news archives it says about it, so the car definately existed, but was abondoned as nothing else would be quite like it (nothing to compete i mean, although i dont see whats wrong with a few single make series!

[JeffR]

I sold my Caterham, (was spending too much time in the shop getting upgrades, and the guy who was working on it has a chronic illness, so the Caterham has a new home new San Francisco, where there is someone that can work on it). The last set of upgrades got the 2.3 liter 4 cylinder Ford Duratec up to 250hp. The USA version of the the Caterham CSR 260 will end up with about the same 250hp (we have lower octane gas in the USA, so the hp drops from 260hp to 250hp). The CSR weighs about 1400 lbs, a tad heavier than my Caterhan SV, but the CSR has a stronger frame, and even more race oriented suspension setup. They drooped the nose a bit to reduce the front end lift (at 100mph, the lift would have been 100lbs, but now it's just 20lbs, so less understeer at speed). For the USA, Cosworth in Long Beach, California is doing the engine upgrades.

Since the real 4 cylinder is getting 260hp as opposed to the LX6's 190hp, maybe it's time for a name change in the LX series that's based on power instead of number of cylinders. There's a 200hp option for the CSR, and some of the older style Caterham optional engines only have 140hp. Seems like a good range, 140hp, 200hp, 260hp.

For the high end LX, it should have the 13 inch wheels and either DOT or slicks, similar to the actual Caterham CSR. DOT tires result in about 1.3'gs of cornering, slicks about 1.5g's. The CSR already come with the dry sump systems you need to handle 1.5g's without causing oil starvation issues. The cars also have the frame strength, suspension, bearings, ... to deal with 1.5 g's. The main reason for the high conering g's is that light cars <1600lbs can use very soft compound tires, so a DOT tire for one of these cars is much stickier than a DOT tire for a car > 2500lbs.

However these are future possible enhancements to the garage of cars. So far, I'm happy with the new patch T.

[Rappa Z]

look, the skins werent properly developed, but if you look in the news archives it says about it, so the car definately existed, but was abondoned as nothing else would be quite like it (nothing to compete i mean, although i dont see whats wrong with a few single make series!

caterham series only.

[eraser_svk]

...i would like to see LX8 in S2 final :) it might not be problem to handle it in current physics :thumb:

[Mogar]

Well, the argument for not release lx8 is that it was going to be without competition...

So, the FO8 is without competition, FOX is without competition, BF1 is without competition...... So will they remove those cars ???



And it was already developed, so it isn't a big work to put it in a next patch.

[nismodallin]

I talked online with someone who had driven the lx8 before a certain alpha version was released (dont ask how) anyways he said the power/weight ratio was just to insane. i wouldnt mind driving the lx8, but i think lx6 is good enough for me :thumb: (edit: maybe traction issues?)

[Mogar]

I talked online with someone who had driven the lx8 before a certain alpha version was released (dont ask how) anyways he said the power/weight ratio was just to insane. i wouldnt mind driving the lx8, but i think lx6 is good enough for me :thumb: (edit: maybe traction issues?)


But now with the new tyre physics, maybe it's possible to control the car...

[deggis]

*long post*
Nice. Do you have have experience with the Caterham on track? If yes how would you compare it to the new physics?

I've never even seen a real Caterham but I think LX4/6 is the best handling from the road cars. Maybe a bit too aggressive sliding doesn't seem so unrealistic with the LXs because they are crazy sliding machines in IRL too... according to the movies. :)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3984612778462445397&q=caterham
http://supervroum.noalia.net/chameau/spy/course2_val_de_vienne_voiture_18.wmv
http://supervroum.noalia.net/chameau/spy/course1_croix_en_ternois_voiture_18.wmv
more good quality vids: http://supervroum.noalia.net/chameau/spy

[spsamsp]

Looks lovely!!!

[JeffR]

Nice. Do you have have experience with the Caterham on track? If yes how would you compare it to the new physics?Never got a chance to take it to a track (no trailer, closest track is 130 miles away), but I've pushed pretty hard on a local parking lot sometimes used for pro solo events, and just messing around. Even though 1st gear was tall, redlining at 62mph, it was still easy to get significant lift throttle oversteer if near the limits.

I've never even seen a real CaterhamPics of the one I used to own:

ctm.htm (http://jeffareid.net/ctm.htm)

crazy sliding machines in IRL tooCaterhams and most non-downforce light cars use bias ply DOT tires or bias ply slicks. There's virtually no loss in grip when the tires slide, so you can seem some wild driving, although it's not the quickest way to drive them.

Here's a another good site of a guy who did a lot hot lapping in his caterham before going over radiator fluid at Spa which wrecked the car (he put up the videos of this too). He's in the rebulding process now. The last few movies were made with a Sony HC1 (HD) camcorder (I've got one of these too), and the picture quaility is very nice.

http://www.jackals-forge.com/lotus/

[JeffR]

I talked online with someone who had driven the lx8 before a certain alpha version was released (dont ask how) anyways he said the power/weight ratio was just to insane. i wouldnt mind driving the lx8, but i think lx6 is good enough for me (edit: maybe traction issues?)Traction is one issue. The peformance tires for lighter cars, like Avon CR500s, are much stickier than peformance tires on heavyer cars. I had 250hp on my Caterham SV, a 1300lb car, UK versions were running 260hp on SLR's which are about 1150lbs. Now Caterham is selling 260hp CSR. These are driven all the time. Note that power to weigh ratio with a driver is about the same as the 2006 Corvette Z06.

[GianniC]

What Rotary said :p :thumb:

[nismodallin]

Traction is one issue. The peformance tires for lighter cars, like Avon CR500s, are much stickier than peformance tires on heavyer cars. I had 250hp on my Caterham SV, a 1300lb car, UK versions were running 260hp on SLR's which are about 1150lbs. Now Caterham is selling 260hp CSR. These are driven all the time. Note that power to weigh ratio with a driver is about the same as the 2006 Corvette Z06.
Sounds GOOD to me! :thumb: and of course if they add traction control, that sounds like it would be quite a fun car. :) Would a Caterham have traction control by the way?

[tristancliffe]

Sounds GOOD to me! :thumb: and of course if they add traction control, that sounds like it would be quite a fun car. :) Would a Caterham have traction control by the way?

It would be the quickest way to boost sales, but the quickest way to absolutely ruin the car. Drivers cars should not ever have TC.

[nismodallin]

It would be the quickest way to boost sales, but the quickest way to absolutely ruin the car. Drivers cars should not ever have TC.
I see what you mean, but you could simply turn it off if you think you dont need/want it. (Edit: i mean in LFS.)

[JeffR]

Would a Caterham have traction control by the way?No, and it probably doesn't need it, as it doesn't have the power to weight ratio of the cars that do. A Caterham and F1 weigh about the same, but it's 260hp versus 900hp (2004, not sure what the V8's are making now). TC makes sense for 900hp, but it isn't needed for 260hp. Some owners will put in a fast sequential shifter, but this is fairly rare.

[GT Touring]

the LX8 shoul come in a GTR form though, no pedestrian mansypansy stuff.
kinda like the Donkevoort V8 that lapped Nurburgring inlike 6 minutes or something crazy, with the front and rear wings..
of course this opens the door for LMP's (Panoz LMP 1 anyone?) or Courage

[Fetzo]

look, the skins werent properly developed, but if you look in the news archives it says about it, so the car definately existed, but was abondoned as nothing else would be quite like it (nothing to compete i mean, although i dont see whats wrong with a few single make series!

i drove the lx8 in cologne , it definately existed. lots of power, lots of problems on bumps and little hills. the car just wanted to fly all the time :P.

i hope the lx8 will have it's comeback.

iirc it had 345 hp

[Frankmd]

Since the lx4 and lx6 cars feel a bit underpowered now, I really vote for a version with lots of power. Especially if it has slicks.

[Resound]

Well the LX6 was distinctly squirrelly in S1. It's a bit of a pussycat in S2 and I can't really see the LX8 being much more terrifying than the S1 LX6. Personally, I'd love to see it. Those who find a car which won't take being floored in first gear a bit too challenging can leave it in the garage, but I'll fang it with pleasure.

[Tyrion]

I would consider a dev comment highly acceptable at this point :)

How bout it Scawen? You can be just as enigmatic as you like, even a simple if/when it will be revived would be very nice :nod:

[Hyperactive]

It was said earler (not sure by whom) that the LX8 would be too heavy to be competitive. If it really had a V8 (what size was it going to be?) it would probably have been quit powerful car with most of the weight on front tyres = understeery car with lots of power. Not really something I call a pleasure to drive :)

Without slicks it just wouldn't be competitive imho.

[duke_toaster]

Please, please in patch U :)

It would be quite good fun to drive.

[JeffR]

It was said earler (not sure by whom) that the LX8 would be too heavy to be competitive.Which is why I recommended changing the LX series to be based on power and not number of cylinders. The current LX6 is 190hp. My recommendation is to follow what is currently available, 140hp, 200hp, and 260hp, all of which use 4 cylinder engines, 140hp from 1.8 liter engine, up to 260hp from a 2.3 liter engine (Ford Duratec) that is as light as the older technology 1.8 liter engine.

[JTbo]

If there is going to be LX8, hopefully it will have engine that puts power out under 7000rpm, many of engines in lfs are already those motorbike kind of engines, maybe because sound engine handles high rev sounds better than low revs, but perhaps time get that sorted out too...

So I guess not LX8 very soon, specially with these wishes :)

[DownShift]

hey i would LOVE to even get to try the LX8, if theres any one who still has the beta with LX8 it'd be F-ing sweet if you cud send it my way :)

cus some how i REALLY dont think they will add the LX8 just becus its to good to be true, an LX8-GTR would out run any of the GTR's we have now times 10. lol the oh so fast FZR would be left in the dust like a civic DX LMFAO! that would be sweet!

[dawesdust_12]

I had played the beta at a friends house and that was when there was no pits and the bloody LX8 was impossible to drive, I think that with the new physics, the LX8 would be much more controllable.

[JTbo]

I had played the beta at a friends house and that was when there was no pits and the bloody LX8 was impossible to drive, I think that with the new physics, the LX8 would be much more controllable.

Beta was never released for public, so your friend is beta tester?

[Klichka]

It would be the quickest way to boost sales, but the quickest way to absolutely ruin the car. Drivers cars should not ever have TC.

What about the Honda S2000, Ferrari Enzo, Corvette, Ferrari 360 Modena and the Pagani Zonda?

TC is neccessary to get to the track and if you ever drive in not so ideal conditions, then I'm sure you'll welcome Traction Control on your sports car.

Also, the Ferrari Enzo has a race and an off mode for "driver aids", if race and off are two distinctive modes you can select from among the Traction Control Agressiveness and such, then there's obviously a need for Traction Control in some driver cars. Also, doesn't Traction Control make you slightly slower in all but the quickest of cars?

[Hyperactive]

What about the Honda S2000, Ferrari Enzo, Corvette, Ferrari 360 Modena and the Pagani Zonda?

TC is neccessary to get to the track and if you ever drive in not so ideal conditions, then I'm sure you'll welcome Traction Control on your sports car.

Also, the Ferrari Enzo has a race and an off mode for "driver aids", if race and off are two distinctive modes you can select from among the Traction Control Agressiveness and such, then there's obviously a need for Traction Control in some driver cars. Also, doesn't Traction Control make you slightly slower in all but the quickest of cars?

TC is in those cars simply because the buyers of those cars can't handle the huge power ouput/rwd layout. TC is to make the cars easier, not necessarily faster. Only a few (or are there any) road cars are faster with stuff like TC on. It's not racing TC, it's safety TC.

[ColeusRattus]

TC is neccessary to get to the track and if you ever drive in not so ideal conditions, then I'm sure you'll welcome Traction Control on your sports car.


I guess that's exactly what tristan was hinting: Stay away from high powered cars if you can't handle them by yourself ;) (with you, I mean a general you, and not you personally)

[tristancliffe]

Yup. Who'd want to buy a fast car and have a computer programmed by a spotty teenager tell them how much throttle you're allowed to use. I know I wouldn't. I don't approve of 'chipping' cars, but if I ever get a car with TC I'll be finding out how to get the damn thing removed (or at the very least default to off rather than on, and be 100% off when it says it's off, not 70% off like a lot are now).

[JTbo]

Yup. Who'd want to buy a fast car and have a computer programmed by a spotty teenager tell them how much throttle you're allowed to use. I know I wouldn't. I don't approve of 'chipping' cars, but if I ever get a car with TC I'll be finding out how to get the damn thing removed (or at the very least default to off rather than on, and be 100% off when it says it's off, not 70% off like a lot are now).

I think it is if you like to like Jeremy or Tiff.

Jeremy (bloke that sold F355 and got AMG55 which he thinks is better car):
F430 has great TC, it is faster around track when it is turned on, car is very hard to drive without TC.

Tiff: (Guy that has raced Ferrari and is real race driver)
*Test driving Enzo* Oh my, how to turn TC off, I can't drive this thing, help where to turn it off, ah now we go *Tiff pulls out from corner in nice slide and smiles*

I choose Tiff's style :D

[Klichka]

Yup. Who'd want to buy a fast car and have a computer programmed by a spotty teenager tell them how much throttle you're allowed to use. I know I wouldn't. I don't approve of 'chipping' cars, but if I ever get a car with TC I'll be finding out how to get the damn thing removed (or at the very least default to off rather than on, and be 100% off when it says it's off, not 70% off like a lot are now).

I don't think Fiat/Ferrari, Honda, Porsche, or Pagani hire many newbies to work on their flagship sports cars.


Also, while TC is good on road cars, for the game. I don't think I'd be happy with the GTI having Race TC in any form.

(For those who want to debate a car that sees road time having TC, I will mention Black Ice and then ask if you've EVER taken a turn or driven a bit faster than what is PERFECTLY SAFE.)

[JeffR]

In the April 2006 edition of Motortrend magazine, they tested a 2006 Corvette Z06 and a Porche 911 Carerra S (and two other cars) at Laguna Seca, with Neil Chirico (apparently their best test driver) at the wheel. The lower powered 911 with more weight over the rear wheels didn't need TC, but Corvette did, as Neil ran it with the stability control set to competition mode. The Corvette has 505hp and weighs 3200lbs (without driver), and has a 51% - 49% front - rear weight bias. Few here in this forum are faster in real life than Neil, and he needed TC on the vette. Also note that the perfomance mode TC on the Vette produces better lap times than with TC off, so even a street car, although expensive, can have a good TC setup.

On the other hand, a Cateham with 260hp has about the same power to weight ratio as the Corvette, but the Caterham has a rearward weight bias (with driver), and stickier tires (for very light cars, tire compounds are softer), so it doesn't need TC.

Bottom line is that some cars are faster with TC, while others don't need it.

[tristancliffe]

Most people don't actually know what black ice IS, let alone how to predict/recover from it, and TC won't save you if you drive along blissfully unaware of the threat.

There is no road speed that is perfectly safe. Chances are driving a car will be the most dangerous thing you'll ever do, but familiarity breeds contemp. People take driving for granted. In fact they feel they couldn't actually live without it (which may be true if you're the only one without it, but not if no one had them). Of course I've taken corners too fast. But rarely am I too fast for the road or the prevailing conditions based upon the ultimate grip levels I will achieve. I may, however, be going to fast for the off chance of a cyclist or a deer doing some exploration. But TC doesn't have ANYTHING to do with go fast. Turning on the TC in an Enzo doesn't make it safe, not in the slightest. It purely means that idiots can jump in and press the loud pedal, pretend they are Michael Schumacher and, normally, survive the experience without killing somone or themselves by over enthusiastic application of loudness. But it doesn't make you safe, and it won't stop you crashing. At this rate supercars (if you can call the Enzo super) will be a thing of the past, bloated with airbags, TC, ABS, Yaw Control, 4WD and all the other non-supercary things designed to make driving easier for idiots.

Me? I'd rather have the option of controlling my own destiny. It won't make me slower, and it won't make me faster. TC won't stop people from understeering into a cyclist at twice the legal limit. It won't stop people from hitting kerbs when they go too fast for their talent. It won't stop the vast majority of accidents in actual fact. In fact, the lack of TC on cars wouldn't make me any more of a threat to society than I am in a 2CV. But without it I'll have a bigger grin. Perhaps supercars should be sold with driving instruction, but not only instruction but to give the drivers an awareness of their own limitations, both on the track and in real world driving conditions. Then throw away ALL the safety equipment and keep supercars super! I don't believe there is ANY need for TC as a safety or performance device. It's only useful contribution is helping poorly suited cars cope on icey roads in colder countries.

ABS on the other hand has real world benefits. I myself still like to NOT have it, as I have learnt how to cadance brake in emergency situations (and I've tested it succesfully too). But 99% of people don't even know what cadance braking is, let alone how to do it. They just see a Go pedal and a Stop pedal, and to stop quicker, no matter what the situation, they press Stop harder and harder. Thus ABS works in reality. TC just spoils the fun. In the UK one of the few things that isn't directly forbidden is acceleration. It is perfectly legal to accelerate as fast as any car is capable of, though you might get booked for driving without due care and attention.

In responce to JeffR, if you need to resort to electronic trickery to make your car go faster (in which case the focus of the car must surely be on speed) then it shows, pure and simply, that the car is inadequately designed for the task in hand. If an Ultima GTR has the world 0-100-0 record for a road car, and Caterhams can out accelerate a Corvette, then surely it just shows that the Corvette (in this example, but could be almost anything that relys on TC) isn't as good as it could be?

[JeffR]

In responce to JeffR, if you need to resort to electronic trickery to make your car go faster (in which case the focus of the car must surely be on speed) then it shows, pure and simply, that the car is inadequately designed for the task in hand.Or the human driving the car. Humans don't respond within milliseconds, computers do. Sometimes the car is just very powerful, as in the case of a F1 car. Lap times are simply quicker with TC than without it in a F1 and many other race cars.

Some racing cars use individual wheel braking in addition to the ECU for traction control and improved cornering. The braking oriented racing TC systems allow more torque to be applied to the faster rotating outside rear tire, something not possible with normal differential (and specifically banned in FIA F1 series). Bottom line is that braking oriented TC systems keep all 4 tires at optimal slip, something that can't be done without sensors and computers. The result is faster lap times, and there is some benefit as the technology trickles down into street cars.

The other factor is tire wear. TC results in less rear tire wear, which is important in a real race.

If an Ultima GTR has the world 0-100-0 record for a road car, and Caterhams can out accelerate a Corvette, then surely it just shows that the Corvette (in this example, but could be almost anything that relys on TC) isn't as good as it could be?True, the Corvette doesn't have enough rearward bias for the amount of power and grip it has. As previously posted, a Caterham has a more rearward weight bias and stickier tires, so it out launches a Corvette. However the Catheham's poor aerodynamics limit it to about 155mph, while the Z06 will reach about 190mph. On a track like Spa, or Road America, the Z06 will trounce the Caterham. On a shorter track, the Catherham would probably have the advantage.

It's not really a fair comparason, as the Caterham is bascially a streel legal very fun track car, but neither car is an all out race car. Both cars would get obliterated by a Radical SR8, with is more track oriented.

Note that I've already posted that I don't think LX type car with 260hp needs TC. At 350hp or more, it probably would need TC, but I don't think anyone is proposing an super fast LX car here.

[Hyperactive]

Some people just don't understand the difference of a racing TC and a safety TC. They are 2 totally different things. Racing TC is always set so that it gives the maximum acceleration available with preset slip and other factors. Safety TC just don't allow your wheels to spin because you may lose control. It just brakes.

Actually stuff like ESP, ABS and maybe even TC saves lives. All around the world. Simply because the average human driving his ford/corvette/mercedes might (defenately is not able to) not be able to handle the car in accidents. They simply lack the skill/patience or go shock and just stab the brakes and scream like hell. I would defenately have all the widgets and wadgets in my "supercar" if I could make the choise. Otherwise I might not just kill myself but kill others or... you get it.

Also 90% of people overestimate their driving skills. The rest have a clue.

[Klichka]

Most people don't actually know what black ice IS, let alone how to predict/recover from it, and TC won't save you if you drive along blissfully unaware of the threat.

There is no road speed that is perfectly safe. Chances are driving a car will be the most dangerous thing you'll ever do, but familiarity breeds contemp. People take driving for granted. In fact they feel they couldn't actually live without it (which may be true if you're the only one without it, but not if no one had them). Of course I've taken corners too fast. But rarely am I too fast for the road or the prevailing conditions based upon the ultimate grip levels I will achieve. I may, however, be going to fast for the off chance of a cyclist or a deer doing some exploration. But TC doesn't have ANYTHING to do with go fast. Turning on the TC in an Enzo doesn't make it safe, not in the slightest. It purely means that idiots can jump in and press the loud pedal, pretend they are Michael Schumacher and, normally, survive the experience without killing somone or themselves by over enthusiastic application of loudness. But it doesn't make you safe, and it won't stop you crashing. At this rate supercars (if you can call the Enzo super) will be a thing of the past, bloated with airbags, TC, ABS, Yaw Control, 4WD and all the other non-supercary things designed to make driving easier for idiots.

Me? I'd rather have the option of controlling my own destiny. It won't make me slower, and it won't make me faster. TC won't stop people from understeering into a cyclist at twice the legal limit. It won't stop people from hitting kerbs when they go too fast for their talent. It won't stop the vast majority of accidents in actual fact. In fact, the lack of TC on cars wouldn't make me any more of a threat to society than I am in a 2CV. But without it I'll have a bigger grin. Perhaps supercars should be sold with driving instruction, but not only instruction but to give the drivers an awareness of their own limitations, both on the track and in real world driving conditions. Then throw away ALL the safety equipment and keep supercars super! I don't believe there is ANY need for TC as a safety or performance device. It's only useful contribution is helping poorly suited cars cope on icey roads in colder countries.

ABS on the other hand has real world benefits. I myself still like to NOT have it, as I have learnt how to cadance brake in emergency situations (and I've tested it succesfully too). But 99% of people don't even know what cadance braking is, let alone how to do it. They just see a Go pedal and a Stop pedal, and to stop quicker, no matter what the situation, they press Stop harder and harder. Thus ABS works in reality. TC just spoils the fun. In the UK one of the few things that isn't directly forbidden is acceleration. It is perfectly legal to accelerate as fast as any car is capable of, though you might get booked for driving without due care and attention.

In responce to JeffR, if you need to resort to electronic trickery to make your car go faster (in which case the focus of the car must surely be on speed) then it shows, pure and simply, that the car is inadequately designed for the task in hand. If an Ultima GTR has the world 0-100-0 record for a road car, and Caterhams can out accelerate a Corvette, then surely it just shows that the Corvette (in this example, but could be almost anything that relys on TC) isn't as good as it could be?


I knew I should have come up with a better scenario than the ellusive Black ice that people probably already know to watch out for when the conditions arise, but everything else will be met with a sassy reply demanding Colin McRae replace the said driver.

I'm just saying that maybe some drivers might infact suck enough that traction control near Gravel or some less ideal surface could be helpful.

[JTbo]

I think it was Maserati Trofeo cup where TC is used in race.

For road use I would like to have TC, stability control and ABS with loud buzzer that warns when system is activated so that driver would understand to slow down, today many has these features but they drive 100kph while dash is like christmas tree, warning that system is in control not driver, without those systems driver would been crashed long time, but there is no feeling at all only those lights, car is not telling nowdays that it is slippery.
This is because many car maganize reporters comment that car is good to drive when it is like sitting on sofa and watching tv, which I find very wrong, car should feel nerveous when it is near to loose grip, it is way to car telling driver that slowdown.
Well then car manufacturers are reading this and order to design car that is completely dull without any feedback from grip.

That is reason why I prefer older cars without any help systems as those old systems were crap and some of today's systems are crap too, some are great, specially sports cars TC systems, they improve lap times with good drivers too, of course all best drivers are still faster, but there is not many of them.

But as I said, for road I like to have all nice helpers for track nothing ;)

So for sim then, I think possibility to have TC and ABS is good, but should be serverside option to be able to forbid those, also user should have possibility to turn them off. ABS is always easy to disable, take out the fuse, TC might be bit tricky one, but disconnecting wheel speed sensors should do the job ;)

[Rotary]

What was this thread about again??

Ahhhh, that's right the LX8 GTR and grid girls :D

TC is a good thing for the majority of people who know bugger all about driving, along with ABS etc. Maybe we should remove airbags and let people slam their heads into steering wheels and dashboards again? Even better, lets remove collapsible steering coloums so the driver gets impaled like in the old days.

Lets face it, if technology makes cars safer for all those around it, then what's the problem? You have to look at the big picture and not just own personal preference. If it offers more safety for the majority, then majority rules. Sure some features on some cars may encourage a rich idiot to push his Enzo harder... put lets face it, with or without these aids the same rich idiot is still gonna buy the Enzo and push it beyond his limits anyway.

In motor sport though, I prefer raw mechanical racing. Man v's Machine. Hence my current dislike for modern F1, which is more like AI v's Man. Gimme the good old days, where the cars were raw and the driving talent was real... kinda like what the LX8 GTR would offer us :D

Having said that, I'm often told to turn TC ON in the BF1 - what, you don't like my often sideways action through turns :D :D (resulting in a trip into the sand or grass - damn minimal steering lock, who designs these cars anyways??) One day I'll master the throttle control in that car without TC :D

[The Dide]

I agree here with some points made and disagree with others... but to sum it up (again): Adding electronic devices to supercars spoils the fun for those who could do without and saves the butts of those who can't.

In real life - since i'm able NOT to overrate my driving skills - I'm not to unhappy if i find a "powerful" car to be equipped with TC, it's just....that you can relax a bit and not need to drive with a knife between your teeth at all times...even if its a Alfa 147 (with 150 turbodiesl bhp) on sicilian mountain roads....
I simply dislike the thought having in RL the same crashes as in LFS..

And for all the supercars out there with all that gadgetery.. in the end, the market (i.e. rich customers) decides, what's being added to a car, not us who mostly will never be able to afford it...

[Doso]

Most people don't actually know what black ice IS, let alone how to predict/recover from it, and TC won't save you if you drive along blissfully unaware of the threat.

nope, tc wont save you but vsc/vsd or what ever the manufacture calls is will

ABS on the other hand has real world benefits. I myself still like to NOT have it, as I have learnt how to cadance brake in emergency situations (and I've tested it succesfully too). But 99% of people don't even know what cadance braking is, let alone how to do it. They just see a Go pedal and a Stop pedal, and to stop quicker, no matter what the situation, they press Stop harder and harder. Thus ABS works in reality. TC just spoils the fun. In the UK one of the few things that isn't directly forbidden is acceleration. It is perfectly legal to accelerate as fast as any car is capable of, though you might get booked for driving without due care and attention.

ABS is one thing VSD is another, no matter how good you are, or how good you think you are YOU cannot individually brake each wheel, have a look at one of the old fifth gear episode's tiff (ex f1 driver) takes a jag with VSD onto a swedish iced lake and trys to go around 3 obsticles at 80 mph, the first time without VSD, he ends up in the snow banks, the second time with vsd, he just carmly turn around them, vsd work by individually braking the wheels and PREVENTING understeer and oversteer, any idiot can do emergency swerves under heavy braking and can turn the car as if there driving normally, have a look at the test you will be surprissed

[tristancliffe]

I saw it, and it looked like a crap test. Tiff didn't drive ANYTHING LIKE he would have been doing had it been an accident. he made no attempt to countersteer, or panic, and there's every that doing so would have rendered the systems less effective. Also the car seemed to dig in.

Whilst undoubtedly those systems can save lives, and I have no objection to having them on road cars (as long as I can turn off the fun restricting ones when I want to). But we were talking about TC originally, not ABS/Stability Control etc, and that, I believe, has very little place on a car other than to make them more boring.

But for some reason people don't mind all the good/super cars becoming sanitised. That's why I love the Stratos and the Miura. Uncomfy, heavy control, hot, totally impracticle, but go like the clappers (in their day) and look like Sex on Wheels. THAT is what a supercar should be. Not a trumped up Ford Focus with bling all over it.

[mrfell]

But for some reason people don't mind all the good/super cars becoming sanitised. That's why I love the Stratos and the Miura. Uncomfy, heavy control, hot, totally impracticle, but go like the clappers (in their day) and look like Sex on Wheels. THAT is what a supercar should be. Not a trumped up Ford Focus with bling all over it.

o/t

how about a TVR :thumb: , shame they are closing the factory down in Blackpool

[ColeusRattus]

I agree here with some points made and disagree with others... but to sum it up (again): Adding electronic devices to supercars spoils the fun for those who could do without and saves the butts of those who can't.

As this thread is already OT, I have to disagree.
IMHO, electronic driving aids don't save lives in "supercars" (note: I think it's a good thing my 50 HP diesel has abs ;) ), but make their drivers largely overestimate their ablities, which then leads to even more lethal crashes at much higher velocities... Because even the very well working, high tech aids have their limits, and once you reach them (often unwarned), theres nothing that can save you.

[tristancliffe]

Yup, quite like TVR's, but it's not the same since Peter Wheeler was ousted by that 3 year old russian. And they REALLY need to hire someone old enough to design interiors, and remove the sledge hammers from the design workshop.

But we do own the old style Griffith, and it's even got the manly stub axles that fall off when you least expect it :D

[Bob Smith]

What's wrong with TVR interiors? The original tuscan "cockpit" was great (the mk2 one just looks like a bad attempt at cost cutting). Mmm, brass...

[Blackout]

TVR would suit well to LFS :scratchch

[tristancliffe]

We used to have an original Tuscan that my Dad raced, but I suspect we're talking different 'original' tuscans here...

And I don't like the interiors. Silly swoops and seams, cheap looking leather and shiny bits. It's the sort of thing you 'design' when you're 6, not sell as a world reknowned sports car manufactuer. If I had to buy a TVR it would be a Tamora I think, or a Speed12 (!) with the holes filled in.

[JTbo]

We used to have an original Tuscan that my Dad raced, but I suspect we're talking different 'original' tuscans here...

And I don't like the interiors. Silly swoops and seams, cheap looking leather and shiny bits. It's the sort of thing you 'design' when you're 6, not sell as a world reknowned sports car manufactuer. If I had to buy a TVR it would be a Tamora I think, or a Speed12 (!) with the holes filled in.

I saw Top Gear or something where they put ppl into new TVR and asked to start engine and get out from car, none of them managed to do that :D

I agree totally your opinion from those interiors.

But older TVR (http://www.janiervast.com/tiedostot/index.php?dir=&file=TVR.mp3) is nice :lovies3d:

[Greboth]

Complety O/T on lx's
TVR's are as supercars should be. Not electronics just driver and machine. The interiors arent great but i like the sagaris. Makes me feel like a little boy and that i should go buy a poster and put on my bedroom wall:D

[Bob Smith]

We used to have an original Tuscan that my Dad raced, but I suspect we're talking different 'original' tuscans here..
Well that's TVRs fault for making 4 completely different cars called the Tuscan. But I digress. Just wait until we can make add-on cars, I'll re-make all the TVRs you'll ever want. ;)

Still no LX8... /me taps foot and checks watch...

[Lord Summerisle]

Ahh... i'm glad someone mentioned TVR as a response to numpty aids :)

air bags? well dont crash then....
traction control? you have a right foot dont you?
ABS? again.. learn to use your feet properly

ditto with lotus & caterham.


have loved the LX cars since getting S2 - tho did find them over skittish compared to the real thing, tho havnt had too much time behind the wheel since loading T. always felt putting a V8 engine in 7esq cars was against the premise of supercar slaying performance from light, nimble & responsive 4pot engines that can carry bags of speed through corners... set up with a 50:50 weight distribution, and Chapman's view that so long as you can dial in enough lock, you can pull back almost any rear slide - find Jim Clark in the 66 south african GP - back end slides out on exit... full lock and wait for the back end to return.

[Vilkacis]

a LX8 GTR with a 400hp wankel engine, slicks and wings would be awesome :):):)