Why mid race join is allowed at some servers?

[JTbo]

As there is option to deny mid race joining, why it is not used at servers? I did little racing and I found out that ppl crash at 1st lap and then go to pits and join back to cause perhaps more mayhem, I don't see point why to allow this?

Could someone tell me what I did not understand/was not able to see now? :tilt:

[Bawbag]

No mid race join means that you can't be in spectator mode and "join" the race after it has started.

Like alo of demo servers don't allow people to join in the midle of a race, if you are in the same, pitting doesn't count you as being "out" like clicking Spectate would.

[JTbo]

Then we could use of no esc pitting option :smileypul

[Glenn67]

As I understand it :shrug: "no mid race join" stops people that are connecting to the server mid race from joining in the middle of a race (i.e. they must spectate until the current race is finished). The option doesn't prevent people that have started the race from pitting and then rejoining... I can see how in some circumstances that would be good though :tilt:

[Gabkicks]

in most situations i would be against having midrace join disabled.

wreckers are very rare in s2 (i dont know how this will change with the popularity lfs is gaining)

the newbs sometimes do things that can be mistaken for wrecking but its most likely just lack of experience and/or knowledge. Yesterday a guy almost took me out when he came out of the pits... but then i realised he was just struggling with keeping the car on the road.

[JTbo]

Well my idea behind this is that ppl would learn to be more cautious as if they wreck car undriveable they would need to A drive to pits or B go to spectate.

Server had 17 cars, T1 was more like WW3 as everyone was trying to be first one out of chicane, then those who damaged car pitted via esc and then rejoined sometimes even disturbing race, these things would be solved by disabling possibility to go to pits via esc and rejoin.

Technically you could make so that if racer goes pits from esc menu his engine would not start/run until race restarts / winner finishes race.

What bad this would do? Something I forgot?

[NotAnIllusion]

It's also a pain waiting for a longer race to finish. IMO some public servers should have it just for the ease of running pick-up races.

[JTbo]

From my opinion it is not polite to enter race that is going on, isn't there CRC rule that forbids this activity?

I usually sit and wait until race is done, until I go to track, if I feel I'm not 100% good yet, then I often take it slow, not fighting positions, but driving in race, often last place or so, I think this is better way to do it?

Those who join to race to pits should not disturb racers in any way, when there is lot of cars it is not possible to enter track, easy with only few cars.

I hope I don't get banned from this, but if somereason racer has no patience to wait that 5 laps, then he should stop racing online, ok that said I take my coat :schwitz:

[sil3ntwar]

If mid race join was disabled on all servers then lfs would be dead.

[JTbo]

If mid race join was disabled on all servers then lfs would be dead.

How?

Is problem not seeing status of race before joining or lack of patience of racers(kids)?

[Christian Seidel]

Well my idea behind this is that ppl would learn to be more cautious as if they wreck car undriveable they would need to A drive to pits or B go to spectate.

Server had 17 cars, T1 was more like WW3 as everyone was trying to be first one out of chicane, then those who damaged car pitted via esc and then rejoined sometimes even disturbing race, these things would be solved by disabling possibility to go to pits via esc and rejoin.

Technically you could make so that if racer goes pits from esc menu his engine would not start/run until race restarts / winner finishes race.

What bad this would do? Something I forgot?

Nice idea but my experiences I made with GTR public servers makes me say that the possibility of mid-race joining is one of the greatest advantages LFS has over ISI games, net code wise.

When you have a severe accident in T1 in LFS (be it your own fault or anotherones) you just enter the pits and rejoin the race and have lost maybe half a lap and can still finish the race in a good position. And this is just what people do.

This is not possible in ISI-engined games. The result: people who have little accidents just leave the server as they have no chance to enter the pits and rejoin. And going around the track for a repair is something they just don't do. This leads to the field half empty after the first lap. Btw. in GTR suspension damage isn't even repaired if you go for a pitstop. :pillepall

So this feature does not only help the wreckers (rarely seen on S2 servers) but also the wrecked ones. And it helps everybody if it was just a normal race accident. :thumb:

[LongJohnSilver]

Joining a race in progress should not be considered bad form or hazardous. As long as you stay out of the way of those in the race, I see no reason why you shouldnt be allowed to put in a few warmup laps.

Additionally, I'm not even sure that no mid race join would prevent wreckers from repairing and wrecking more. I believe it only prevents you from joining from spectator mode, while you can still join from the pits.

[Christian Seidel]

Joining a race in progress should not be considered bad form or hazardous. As long as you stay out of the way of those in the race, I see no reason why you shouldnt be allowed to put in a few warmup laps.

Additionally, I'm not even sure that no mid race join would prevent wreckers from repairing and wrecking more. I believe it only prevents you from joining from spectator mode, while you can still join from the pits.

:iagree:

[JTbo]

But problem is that there is too many of those who don't care when they join to race, usually they join front of leader or middle of pack, I don't see other way to prevent this.

Joining to server of course should be possible at middle of race, but not driving to race that is going on.

So it would be that when leader reaches halfway or 2nd intermediate then pits would be closed so that esc pitting and driving to race should become impossibe, right?

That would of course be an option, something you could turn on and off so with good drivers that is not necessarily.

[Christian Seidel]

TBH I don't see your problem with that. Those people are to be lapped - that's it. Normal racing. In real life racing it also happens that somebody who is about to be lapped comes out of the pits right in front of the leader. That's just every day racing. :shrug:

[JTbo]

TBH I don't see your problem with that. Those people are to be lapped - that's it. Normal racing. In real life racing it also happens that somebody who is about to be lapped comes out of the pits right in front of the leader. That's just every day racing. :shrug:

You can think of course that way, but problem I see here is that those will never learn to respect T1 and other cars as it means nothing when you crash, they would be much more careful if they know they have to wait until race ends or find another server etc. I think that is what I'm after, even I'm not always sure of myself :D

[Christian Seidel]

BUT:

This way one wrecker/n00b/whatever can spoil the race for a lot of other people that can't rejoin too. You surely don't want to penalize all the other respectful drivers for the behaviour of one idiot, do you? :)

[JTbo]

BUT:

This way one wrecker/n00b/whatever can spoil the race for a lot of other people that can't rejoin too. You surely don't want to penalize all the other respectful drivers for the behaviour of one idiot, do you? :)

Well, I don't see that a penalty, maybe because if my car get hit so that it is broken I just go to pits and wait until race is over :D

Would that forced waiting grow patience to some or just loose all racers from servers utilizing that option?

[Gabkicks]

wht if its a really long race. like 10 laps on westhill with the uf1:tilt:

[JTbo]

wht if its a really long race. like 10 laps on westhill with the uf1:tilt:

Then it is better make sure not to crash :thumb:

Life is hard and so on? :D

[Gunn]

JTbo, I'm with you all the way pal.

[vade]

What's the problem if mid-race joining is enabled on some (most) servers? Don't join those servers if you don't like it. Your extremist attitude isn't fun. How about banning everyone who make mistakes? They're surely not professional enough. See you after 10 years of training, huh? ;-)

I think it's better to keep things this way. The game is about racing and not waiting.

[SamH]

If mid race join was disabled on all servers then lfs would be dead.
Or dying, yes.

For me, the challenge is to win the race if I can. The more cars that are on the track, providing obstacles for me to successfully negotiate, the better for me. I prefer a busy field. I like close racing. I don't care if they are on their first or their fifth lap.. that is their concern, not mine. As long as they try to stop me overtaking by driving fast and blocking cleanly, I'm very very happy.

[JTbo]

What's the problem if mid-race joining is enabled on some (most) servers? Don't join those servers if you don't like it. Your extremist attitude isn't fun. How about banning everyone who make mistakes? They're surely not professional enough. See you after 10 years of training, huh? ;-)

I think it's better to keep things this way. The game is about racing and not waiting.

Racing is waiting, not believing me? Well, but it is, you need to wait proper place to overtake for example, of course you can be n00b and push trough other cars to T1 but that is not racing, that is hotlapping and ignoring others completely.

I can wait 30mins to have 30mins of good racing without some ppl pushing trough impossible space causing mayhem.

Also because nobody don't like waiting they make sure they don't crash, they start really racing.

Usually I start my own host and set my own rules, be polite and respect others and you will be ok, if not I do have very sensitive kick button ;)
However I find it frustrating that there is not many LFS'ers that really know what racing is and how to race properly, I always find those who think that race is won at T1 and those that think they are racing from 1st place even they are returning to track from pits 3rd time...

Situation is this because there is no reason to be more careful.

Of course if there would be this option that not possible to fix car and join again to middle of race, there would be servers that have not turned it on so it won't hurt you who don't like to race with such serious attitude as I do.

This disallowing mid race join option is not going to help with issue I'm talking about, that I have learned in this thread as it does not work way I thought, there currently is no option to stop midrace pitting and joining back to middle of race.

[vade]

Racing is waiting, not believing me? Well, but it is, you need to wait proper place to overtake for example, of course you can be n00b and push trough other cars to T1 but that is not racing, that is hotlapping and ignoring others completely.
Yeah, patience is a profitable virtue in racing, but waiting for a good place to overtake differs from waiting for the race to start. I don't have the patience to wait 5 minutes for the race to start, but I won't throw stupid stunts on the track. I most often win not because of speed but because of patience.

I can wait 30mins to have 30mins of good racing without some ppl pushing trough impossible space causing mayhem.
That's fine. Some people think that way. When I want to race, I want to race now and not after 30 minutes. After 30mins I probably have something else to do.

Also because nobody don't like waiting they make sure they don't crash, they start really racing.
Because nobody likes waiting, nobody joins the server.

However I find it frustrating that there is not many LFS'ers that really know what racing is and how to race properly,
That's no reason to cause inconvenience to well-behaving people.

[SamH]

Hmm.. I think you have a weak argument overall. The stronger you make your argument, the less value you credit LFS in favour of a REAL race track is, instead - but LFS isn't a real race track. It is a simulated environment, with a great many different factors that make it different from real racing - not being able to jump the start, not having to actually wait 16hrs to go from Fern Bay to Blackwood. Where do you stop, with your argument? It's weak.

Mid-race joining doesn't make people stupid drivers. Nobody wants to wreck a race, but if they do insist on it, they don't have to wait until the race is halfway through before they join. They can pin you against a wall in the first corner at the beginning of the race.

I think you're looking for a way to make people "feel" the accidents more. This I sympathise with, but there are better ways to say this than to attack mid-race joining.

[EDIT]@JTbo

[SamH]

I can wait 30mins to have 30mins of good racing without some ppl pushing trough impossible space causing mayhem.
But WILL you wait 30 mins for a race, race 5 seconds and be written off at T1, and then wait another 30 mins for the next race?

If so, you have the patience of a saint.

[JTbo]

Do you have ideas about what those better ways might be?

In nk there is this accident ratio, I think it has quite good psychological effect as nobody likes to have high ratio, it is also visible in racer list at in server. Would something like this have effect in LFS too?

It really does not matter how it is done, but somehow new racers should get naturally feeling that crashing is really bad thing, that is number 1 thing to avoid.

[JTbo]

But WILL you wait 30 mins for a race, race 5 seconds and be written off at T1, and then wait another 30 mins for the next race?

If so, you have the patience of a saint.

Hehe, many have said that I do have patience of saint, maybe it is because I have this little problem with my brain, there is not normal blood circulation (eh, word?) when take took pics, but few bright spots and few less bright spots, so it is not normally even, maybe inpatiance part is not getting enough blood :D

[bal00]

I don't see the problem here. Poor drivers cause trouble, no matter if they're in the race from the start or if they join while it's running.

Do you think the number of fatal accidents in real life would go down if you outlawed airbags and seat belts to make people drive more carefully? Somehow I don't think so.

[JTbo]

I don't see the problem here. Poor drivers cause trouble, no matter if they're in the race from the start or if they join while it's running.

Do you think the number of fatal accidents in real life would go down if you outlawed airbags and seat belts to make people drive more carefully? Somehow I don't think so.

Actually I do think that if cars would be made so that they are like older cars, so that they would 'tell' how much there is grip there would be less accidents, all modern driving aids and lack of road feel is one big cause of accidents, imo.

However really big part of reallife accidents are caused drunken drivers, to them it is same if there is driving aids or seatbelts, they will crash anyway.

[SniperX]

...
I can wait 30mins to have 30mins of good racing without some ppl pushing trough impossible space causing mayhem.
....
I can't wait.. As a "casual" racer, with 3 kids, wife, house, garden, cars +++ I can't spend an entire night on racing anymore. so if I have one hour to play LFS I don't use 30 mins of that time waiting for a race to be finnished (just to be wrecked at T1 30 seconds later ;))
But then, If i join a server with 10+ laps left of the race, I guess I would leave for another server with shorter races ;)

[mrodgers]

I just wanted to say something positive about joining the race after pitting out (shift-S) and about a particular team. I was running on LOTF's server the last 2 nights and though there were many who were shift-S'ing to the pits, EVERYONE was very very generous about letting the leaders pass through easily. VERY WELL DONE by Marsh2, bdshan, Jethro, and the others I saw on their server. Top notch team and members you all are :thumb: .