Round 3: Protests

[dekojester]

Provide:

Lap and Timecode
Cars involved
brief description of incident

Please provide an mpredited mpr if you so desire.

d

[luki97]

Lap and Timecode: lap 1
Cars involved: 03 and 25
brief description of incident: Tommy Ostgaard pushes car 03 on the wall and car 03 finishes race after this incident.

[cmckowen]

Lap and Timecode: lap 1
Cars involved: 03 and 25
brief description of incident: Tommy Ostgaard pushes car 03 on the wall and car 03 finishes race after this incident.

Tommy has said he took the inside and didn't expect the 03 car to come across. He says what happened was un-intentional. Is the replay available?

[Cawwa]

Lap and Timecode: Lap 10 sector 2
Cars involved: 01 and 31
brief description of incident: #01 pushed us around just before the hairpin and we lost several positions

[J@tko]

Lap and Timecode: lap 1
Cars involved: 03 and 25
brief description of incident: Tommy Ostgaard pushes car 03 on the wall and car 03 finishes race after this incident.
LRT [I'll call you that for ease] and T7R come down to T3 together. T7R makes a half-move to the inside and LRT moves to block, but leaves space [just] for Tommy to come up the inside. Tommy however taps the rear of the LRT car coming down the hill, which causes the large incident on lap 2. Warning to T7R for this incident, as it wasn't deliberate, but he could have backed off/moved. :thumbsup:

[J@tko]

Lap and Timecode: Lap 10 sector 2
Cars involved: 01 and 31
brief description of incident: #01 pushed us around just before the hairpin and we lost several positions
I can't find it? :shrug: :(

[J@tko]

Lap and Timecode: Lap 10 sector 2
Cars involved: 01 and 31
brief description of incident: #01 pushed us around just before the hairpin and we lost several positions
Warning to #1 for causing avoidable incident.

[Cawwa]

Warning to #1 for causing avoidable incident.

Can you explain this please?

[J@tko]

Can you explain this please?
I can't actually re-check it atm so I'll say what I remember happened.

IRM and E-Team coming into the left hander after split 2 line astern. According to the replay I have [which is deko's i.e American] IRM lag a tad turning into the corner and Williams tags the back of IRM just after the apex which turns IRM around. Not a deliberate move, but Williams could have backed off a bit more, especially given the slight amount of lag coming through there.

If you want to re-protest it then we can check again after the race? :thumbsup:

[Cawwa]

No, we wount reprotest. We are just so dissapointed to loose all those places for a bad move from 01.

[xtraction]

I apologise for this.

It is so hard to make a pass i was just trying to put you under pressure. And eventually make a pass.

Sry again

[Cawwa]

Apoligy is apreciated and of course accepted ... cya on the track ... :thumb:

[xtraction]

This isnt a protest, But id just like to point out the Conquest car.

They have been driving pretty poorley.

Regards.

[marcin84]

Lap and Timecode 49lap
Cars involved 06 21
brief description of incident car 21 crashed into 06 in last corner before split 1 ,coused us to spin and drive away

[J@tko]

Lap and Timecode 49lap
Cars involved 06 21
brief description of incident car 21 crashed into 06 in last corner before split 1 ,coused us to spin and drive away
Coming through the U-shaped bend, #21 goes for the inside and a gap that was always going to close, and causes #6 to spin. DT for #21.

[Drift King CZ]

Lap and Timecode: Lap 60, 1:41:40 of the total time
Cars involved: 13, 01
brief description of incident: Turn 2. 01 pushing hard, braking late and pushing me right into the wall in T2.

[racer hero]

Lap and Timecode: lap 87, turn 1.
Cars involved: 14(?), 20
brief description of incident: 14 on the inside, 20 on the outside, 14 just acts like were not there and shoves us in the wall. Causes us undriveable damage and lots of time.

[J@tko]

Lap and Timecode: lap 87, turn 1.
Cars involved: 14(?), 20
brief description of incident: 14 on the inside, 20 on the outside, 14 just acts like were not there and shoves us in the wall. Causes us undriveable damage and lots of time.
We're looking at that post-race :thumb:

[theodinho29]

I am really sorry for this incident M.Saidl. It is very difficult to overtake here ... But I made a mistake, I'm still sorry.

[Drift King CZ]

I am really sorry for this incident M.Saidl. It is very difficult to overtake here ... But I made a mistake, I'm still sorry.

Np, if I would know we will pass you, I wouldn't report it :).

[xtraction]

Lap : 101
Involves: RSR + E-Team

Incident: RSR was blue flagged for quite a while, and didnt let me pass, i finally wedged my way in to pass, and then SR came behind them, and were allowed to pass with ease!

[z-ro 8]

Lap : 101
Involves: RSR + E-Team

Incident: RSR was blue flagged for quite a while, and didnt let me pass, i finally wedged my way in to pass, and then SR came behind them, and were allowed to pass with ease!

This isnt a protest, But id just like to point out the Conquest car.

They have been driving pretty poorley.

Regards.

you are seriously posting here?

[-NightFly-]

Lap and Timecode: lap 36, turn 1.
Cars involved: 27, 01, 21
brief description of incident: After having a slight pump with 21(I apologize for that), number 01 takes the inside lane and continues carelessly with ideal trajector pushing number 27 into the wall.

just like to point out the S.williams.
He has been driving pretty poorley.

[dekojester]

You have until 2200 UTC tonight, 1 February to submit protests.

[dekojester]

Lap and Timecode: lap 1
Cars involved: 03 and 25
brief description of incident: Tommy Ostgaard pushes car 03 on the wall and car 03 finishes race after this incident.

This incident has been reassessed post-race.

The penalty has been upgraded from what was applied in race.

Car 03 is found to have done no blocking moves, and Car 25 is found to have placed his car in a position that it should have not been placed, and failed to take care to avoid contact. Contact was avoidable, and started an chain of incidents that ultimately led to the retirement of Car 03 and others.

Car 25's penalty is upgraded to placement as the last car 1 lap down.

[dekojester]

Lap and Timecode: Lap 60, 1:41:40 of the total time
Cars involved: 13, 01
brief description of incident: Turn 2. 01 pushing hard, braking late and pushing me right into the wall in T2.

Car 01 brakes late in the entry, and rear ends Car 13. 30-second penalty to Car 01.

[dekojester]

Lap and Timecode: lap 87, turn 1.
Cars involved: 14(?), 20
brief description of incident: 14 on the inside, 20 on the outside, 14 just acts like were not there and shoves us in the wall. Causes us undriveable damage and lots of time.

Car 14 pressures 20 for several laps, looking for an overtake. Car 14 has slipstream entering main straight, and starts a proper overtake before the first left hand bend. Car 20 turns in, leaving enough room, but Car 14 understeers into Car 20. Car 14 could have waited, but did present a satisfactory overtaking move. Car 20 could have backed off and cut losses instead of taking a risk of running side by side.

Car 14 is issued a Warning to use a bit better judgement when to overtake a leading car while lapped.

Car 20 is issued a Warning for lack of spatial awareness leading to an incident.

[dekojester]

Lap : 101
Involves: RSR + E-Team

Incident: RSR was blue flagged for quite a while, and didnt let me pass, i finally wedged my way in to pass, and then SR came behind them, and were allowed to pass with ease!

Protest rejected. Improper format (car numbers not provided).

However, had the protest been proper format, there would be no penalty. Car 01 was not unduly held up by car 27; Car 01 never presented a proper overtake until the point in which he did overtake.

[dekojester]

Lap and Timecode: lap 36, turn 1.
Cars involved: 27, 01, 21
brief description of incident: After having a slight pump with 21(I apologize for that), number 01 takes the inside lane and continues carelessly with ideal trajector pushing number 27 into the wall.


No penalty. Cars 27 and 21 make contact, both slow, and return to running. Car 01, unimpeded, takes the turn and starts to pull wide. Car 27 is still pulling a bit right, as Car 01 is moving left.

[three_jump]

This incident has been reassessed post-race.

The penalty has been upgraded from what was applied in race.

Car 03 is found to have done no blocking moves, and Car 25 is found to have placed his car in a position that it should have not been placed, and failed to take care to avoid contact. Contact was avoidable, and started an chain of incidents that ultimately led to the retirement of Car 03 and others.

Car 25's penalty is upgraded to placement as the last car 1 lap down.

Personally I find it a bit odd that the penalty is updated that way that a team definatly looses a position in the results and I think thats questionable. Why wasn't this reviewed during the race properly in the first place?

While I can understand the penalty itself (well... SG would have been my prefered choice), I feel frustrated about the way it's been handled with first giving us a warning and handing the bomb out long after the race.

[ivantod]

^^
similar thing happend to car #04 after KY3.

[Tomhah]

I find it very odd that they got a SG from this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whQGt-Z0BEU&feature=related

And we got a much stronger penalty, looong after the race, as Jan said.
Going from a warning to a 1 lap down++ is...:Looking_a The guy who gave us a warning dont have eyes or? You just want the championship closer or?:shrug:

[CSF]

The guy who gave us a warning dont have eyes or?


This.

[Tomhah]

I have read through the rules, and I cant find anything about the penalty you gave me. In the rules, it doesnt say anything about a -2 lap penalty.
It says either 30 sec, 45 sec (which you gave RSR for their T1 mayhem) or dq.

Correct me if I am wrong.

So can I ask, where did this come from?

[boothy]

If you want to get technical, then it would be a holding penalty of -1 lap plus 45 seconds as defined in XIII 3 a. (though perhaps you should be ahead of E-team after their 30s penalty)

If you want to know where the penalty came from, it would probably be due to being in breach of NDR sporting code rules IV 2, VI 2, VII 1 + 2 and X 3. All whilst being on probation (XIII "...where the person on probation is subject to ... more strict penalties for incidents.")

[Wilko868]

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1378721#post1378721

My opinion on the opinion of most of the people here (I feel).

[Tomhah]

My opinion posted right after. With people on MSN agreeing.

[three_jump]

And I think it's time to end this discussion.

[pik_d]

My opinion posted right after. With people on MSN agreeing.
You were already on probation, a harsher penalty is justified. You spent a lot of time right before the race telling everyone to be careful in T1, T2.. etc and then you dove where there was no room and ended the race for two teams.

As Wilko said, it's a video game so there's not already the money/injury reason for fearing contact, so what else can they do except penalize harshly?

[Tomhah]

Because I got on probation for doing donuts on the grass, being no danger for not a single soul. I have been clean for 3 years, and now this.
Probation or not, its way too harsh.

[xtraction]

Do i have wrong idea or does Tommy have 3 year probation?

Can someone fill me in here?

[Tomhah]

You are wrong (hopefully). I ment that I have been driving clean in three years now, but that I do one mistake and get called a crasher and gets heavy punishment.

The "Donut-on the grass-probation" was just completely silly imo, as I didnt know I wasnt allowed to take donuts on the grass being no danger for anyone (iTCC).(not a sould protested me either). And then I get taken as a guy who has been crashing all his career.

[xtraction]

IMO your a fair, fast driver..

Ive never had any problems with you. To me you seem just as fast and fair as people such as Rik de Jong, Morgan Trollé etc.

[Tomhah]

You're one of few then, but thanks for the kind words.

[xtraction]

Maybe im one of the few because this league classes you as an "Amature". but its only Amature in league experience, not driving experience. I hope people remember this.. :shrug:

[CSF]

Sigh. This has gone a bit far now.

[Tomhah]

Well, thanks Sean. Im really thankful for your words.

[pik_d]

You are wrong (hopefully). I ment that I have been driving clean in three years now, but that I do one mistake and get called a crasher and gets heavy punishment.

...

And then I get taken as a guy who has been crashing all his career.
Oh that's not really the case. I've never had any trouble with you in GTAL (haven't race you much anywhere else) so it's nothing personal at least from me. It's simply a case of rules are rules and anyone (be it me, Wilko, you... anyone) who does something so foolish as dive the way you did at that corner deserves a harsh punishment.

Next time I see you on track I won't be scared of you wrecking me or anything so silly. Passing yes, wrecking, no. :tilt:

[Tomhah]

Was it twice as foolish as what RSR did at T1 at R1? (they got SG)

Yeah, it was my fault, It was never my intention. A DT or SG is deserved. But -2 lap?


But yeah, whatever... Good night. And dont worry, I wont crash you. :)

[boothy]

Indeed, no one has labelled you a crasher or anything of the sort, I wasn't worried that you were going to do something silly when you were racing us in the previous 3 rounds (even at KY3B going for the lead at the final corner :smileypul).

When Fuse did something silly at AS5 in MoE no one who had raced him previously suddenly changed their mind and decided he was a wrecker on the basis of that incident. He did of course, get a 2 lap penalty for it, as did Jason of SR at and TDRT at Westhill last season, both of which were looked at and applied after the race. :shrug:

I think the difference with RSR was a) the circuit b) affects of the crash c) probation d) the fact that a 45s penalty wouldn't have punished you at all :shy:

[xtraction]

Even if the 45 sec penalty didnt punish him. its not the fact that he wont lose a position maybe. The principle is that hes got a different penalty than everyone else.. totally unfair.

[pik_d]

Being on probation gives you worse penalties. It's not totally unfair.

[dekojester]

I'm tired, fed up, pissed off at many things right now...Monday I will clear it all out after I finish all the other stuff I have to do this weekend. :schwitz:

Thread closed.