BL rally REV.. not too popular?

[durrri]

lately, coming to the server list, the first thing I look for is a BL rally REV server with at least a couple people.. (and an RB4 for my taste ;-P)
But it seems not too many people are fond of the track, which I cannot understand..
I looove the first left after the finish line... it's super-hard (and therefore super-fun) and it pretty much makes the track for me (beside the other long-straight-into-gravel turn..

i don't create servers myself.. am just a "user-kinda-guy" with LFS, but would love to see the track a bit more often..

am i weird? :D

:shrug:

[JoRuss]

am i weird? :D

:shrug:

Yes. Probably as much as me... sorry...
BL2R was popular in demo, but once devs took it out of there, track died quickly...
There's one server (I know about) that is full time set on this track, it's [AA] Demo BL2R but, since it's demo (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=63429), it's limited to xfr/xrg only...

[durrri]

The limit to demo cars is not what i mind most about demo servers..its the unorderliness of the participants that u come across..especially in rally races.. Tpo few people go and read the code of conduct..
Btw, didnt know the REV was ever in demo..

[AcesHigh]

It was back in 2005-2006 when used to play demo.

I have to say it was a really bad move from the devs to remove the s1/s2/demo filter... it completely killed off the demo combo´s for me and alot of my friends.

BL GP and BL rallycross and GTi class was really good and fun racing untill they merged it together... now its just a real crashfest and there is no way to ban players since they are on demo, and can create a new account if they want to since its free...

[The Very End]

It's really sad, because it's damn much fun driving that combo :shrug:
Hopefully someone takes the opertunity to make a propper TBO server with it again :)

[durrri]

Hopefully..someone..

[The Very End]

The IronHorse server got it, but your not allowed to drive the TBO before a certain lisence level.

[brandons48]

"Booo! You have too much of a life to drive this car!" :razz:

I haven't actually driven this combo much myself... May have to give it a go. :thumbsup:

btw TVE, what happened to the [noobs] server? It's gone again :(

[thisnameistaken]

Everyone always cuts across the gravel on the outside of turn one, then there's a big crashfest on the next left-hander, I think that's why people got sick of that circuit. Stick red+white barriers all over the gravel and you might get a decent race out of it.

It's great fun in the LXs. :)

[dawesdust_12]

Or a better solution than R/W barriers are the Marshals or haybales... then if there is an accident, it doesn't cause a massive barrier wreck as RW ones do.

and Yes, any rally track is fun in LX cars.. even though I suck :p

[The Very End]

"Booo! You have too much of a life to drive this car!" :razz:

I haven't actually driven this combo much myself... May have to give it a go. :thumbsup:

btw TVE, what happened to the [noobs] server? It's gone again :(

No idea, guess some of the n00bs in my team oblirated it :D

[Kamrock]

It was back in 2005-2006 when used to play demo.

I have to say it was a really bad move from the devs to remove the s1/s2/demo filter... it completely killed off the demo combo´s for me and alot of my friends.

BL GP and BL rallycross and GTi class was really good and fun racing untill they merged it together... now its just a real crashfest and there is no way to ban players since they are on demo, and can create a new account if they want to since its free...

BL2R with GTi cars and the BF1? That would get rid of the demo-ers... hehe, and surely nobody with an S2 license would nuts enough to race the BF1 on Rallycross... mind you, I've been wrong in the past.

[zeugnimod]

BL2R with GTi cars and the BF1? That would get rid of the demo-ers... hehe, and surely nobody with an S2 license would nuts enough to race the BF1 on Rallycross... mind you, I've been wrong in the past.

I think you definately are wrong on this one. :D

[legoflamb]

BL2R promotes cutting the track. Its kind of like FE, if you don't cut you are not competitive. With BL2R cutting the sand trap is required to race competitively.

I always try to avoid that track. I agree with kev.

[rich uk]

Great combo, The iron horse rally server is great. Nice to see people racing rally again it's been too long. I miss the pre S1 days when you were harunteed a good rally x race :)

[JoRuss]

BL2R promotes cutting the track. Its kind of like FE, if you don't cut you are not competitive. With BL2R cutting the sand trap is required to race competitively.

I always try to avoid that track. I agree with kev.

If you feel you can't compete without cutting T1 feel free to do it as well...
In fact, when there wasn't any insim software emulating restricted zones you couldn't do much about it and, frankly, in demo, cutting over grass was way safer for everybody (even thought that was a killer for suspension these days) .

And of course you miss the fun off throwing an old xrg into drifft at over 150km/h when you go flat-out through T1/T2 there when not cutting... try it someday ;-)

And last, but not least, that constant moaning about demo being crashers fest... I feel that it's like some `right-thing-to-say` mantra here... IMO most of people say that even thought they don't understand what they actually talking about :-) There's plenty good demo servers, well managed, and even thought sometimes some punk emerge there, he'll be taken out relatively quickly...

I spent most of my lfs life on demo servers and still enjoying racing there and pre-x-patch times bl2r demo servers had many licensed drivers among regular visitors due simple fact that in S1/S2 mode servers with that combo (same as it is now) were badly deserted and you can't enjoy racing much without racers, do you?

...and yes, I've been crashed many times... so what... Happens... get over it, and try to catch up to the pack, that's fun too. :-)

[zeugnimod]

If you feel you can't compete without cutting T1 feel free to do it as well...

Wow, what a ridiculous attitude. :thumbsdow

[EQ Worry]

Everyone always cuts across the gravel on the outside of turn one, then there's a big crashfest on the next left-hander, I think that's why people got sick of that circuit

Uhm? If everyone is cutting through T1 on BL2R (as it used to be), then crashing anyone there is actually pretty much impossible. Go the right way, on tarmac, and you'll have all kinds of troubles. Cutting is much safer, faster, more fun. If BL2R ever returns to demo then we'll certainly go for cutting. People will get sick of the track only if cutting is not allowed. :really:

As I wrote in some other post, I consider removing BL1R and particularly BL2R from demo a big mistake. It substantially weakened the demo community, and believe it or not, licensed people actually come from demo, so it (my view, but I'm not alone) substantially weakened S2 as well.

Considering demo/licensed hosts. I love demo. It is an interesting community with new people coming (and going too). It changes constantly, every day you'll see someone new, you see what progress he makes (first being banned, then learning the rules, meeting the community, turning into a LFS fan, later into a good driver). I think the S2 community is pretty much static, the same old faces around... Want to understand humankind as a whole? Watch demo! :) Joke, a bit, but also some truth in this statement.

Also, it is perfectly possible to have nice, close, clean races on demo servers. Obviously the chance of being crashed is higher. There are hardcore crashers but it is much more probable you'll crash because of some unexpected action of a complete newbie. Learn to calculate with that, expect the unexpected and you can have quite some fun. Sometimes. On some places. With some people. :razz:

[AcesHigh]

Is there anyway to filter out the demo drivers from the demo combos these days? maybe allowing a car that isnt on demo like this. Bl1, gti-class, then add like bf1 and restrict it through insim?

Havent really hosted server before, but my team are considering getting a server and then have it rotate some classic fun combo´s... and ofcourse it would be fun to have it public when its not used for private team practice/events.

[legoflamb]

Uhm? If everyone is cutting through T1 on BL2R (as it used to be), then crashing anyone there is actually pretty much impossible. Go the right way, on tarmac, and you'll have all kinds of troubles. Cutting is much safer, faster, more fun.

Not everyone is is willing to cut that corner because it is cheating. Cutting corners is the same as using hacks because they are both cheating. Honest people don't use hacks because there is no point in winning if you have to cheat to win.

I completely disagree that it is safer to cut. Cutting that corner is not safer in any way and it definitely does cause crashes worse that normal T1 crashes. From my experience with RX at BL2R, the people that disregard the track boundaries also disregard traffic that will be crossing their path through that corner. Countless times I have seen and have been in rear-end crashes caused by those who have cut across the gravel. I can not see the safety in cutting that corner.

I also disagree that it is more fun. Cutting is not more fun. Cutting the gravel causes crashes especially in T1, which results in frequent restarts. The frequent restarts hinder peoples' original intention of joining the server, which is to race. Not racing is not fun for everyone.

[marzman]

I think you definately are wrong on this one. :D
Then make it UF1. If someone chooses that it is their loss

[EQ Worry]

Not everyone is is willing to cut that corner because it is cheating. Cutting corners is the same as using hacks because they are both cheating. Honest people don't use hacks because there is no point in winning if you have to cheat to win.

If everyone goes the same way, it is no cheating. The win is perfectly honest, everyone had the same conditions. True, if there is someone going the "right" way, he'll be causing lots of troubles. But if everyone is cutting, it indeed is much safer, faster, funnier. Maybe you trust on this point someone who's done one thousand of laps there, maybe you could trust someone who's done tens of thousands of laps this way?

Well, I guess you would not. Devs made the track go that way, it is the only correct way. I can understand the point. But it never worked and if BL2R ever finds its way back to demo it will not work again. Demo people have been doing it this way for years and none of them ever complained about cheating, simply because cutting was better from every perspective and the same for everyone.

But again, I repeat that I understand the idealistic point of view. :)

[durrri]

I feel I have to adjust my prevoius comment about demo racing relating to crashes.

I had been a demo racer for quite some time before I had turned S2 and I must say I enjoyed every bit of it. You indeed get to spend some valuable race time on any given demo server.

I guess once I turned S2, I got kinda "spoiled" and expected the very cleanest of every server.. so coming back to any demo, I was furious to get crashed.

Sorry, demo, for bashing you.. you are loved :shy:

[Hyperdrive]

I completely disagree that it is safer to cut. Cutting that corner is not safer in any way and it definitely does cause crashes worse that normal T1 crashes. From my experience with RX at BL2R...My experience tells me the complete opposite is true and I'll offer a couple of reasons for this.

Inexperienced drivers have a tendency to overshoot while navigating the chicane, then clip or crash into the left side wall, resulting in an often unavoidable roadblock for anyone unlucky enough to be following.

The chicane can't be taken two abreast while at speed, so the start of any race invariably leads to a game of chicken where drivers gamble that the other guy will slam on the brakes and back off first. A big problem given how many drivers there are who are willing to take a chance, and with a large grid you can almost guarantee someone will get it wrong.

There's quite a margin between the speed the top drivers and the slower racers can take the chicane. If you're following an unknown driver this can make the whole experience incredibly unpredictable, and all on a section of track with little grip or room for correction. It does provide plenty of opportunity for overtaking, but gaps are often small and tricky to squeeze through.
the people that disregard the track boundaries also disregard traffic that will be crossing their path through that corner. Countless times I have seen and have been in rear-end crashes caused by those who have cut across the gravel. I can not see the safety in cutting that corner.Bad drivers will cause problems wherever they're racing. Force them through a tight and testing area of track such as T1 rather than the allowing them to cut across the expanse of gravel into an easy left and you can expect them to be far more disruptive. I say this as someone who prefers to put up with this and drive the more conventional route.

Incidentally, JoRuss really is the expert on BL2R. He's actually covered more laps on that track alone than you have in your entire LFS career, and is still out there chasing his perfect lap.:insane:

[JoRuss]

Wow, what a ridiculous attitude. :thumbsdow
I hope you're aware that I was referring to JUST BL2R track and ONLY in demo environment? On licensed server, where you can expect more experienced drivers (sadly that's not always true) cutting doesn't drastically increase safe passing through T1/T2 sequence and there's not really point for doing it (except for fun and to bring some good old time memories :-))

And if someone wants badly to take you out there by slamming your car to the wall, there's plenty options how to outsmart such fellow, but I'm sure you are aware of that, but probably just forgot...


Incidentally, JoRuss really is the expert on BL2R. He's actually covered more laps on that track alone than you have in your entire LFS career, and is still out there chasing his perfect lap.:insane:

So true, so true, Master... :shy:

[legoflamb]

If everyone goes the same way, it is no cheating. The win is perfectly honest, everyone had the same conditions. True, if there is someone going the "right" way, he'll be causing lots of troubles. But if everyone is cutting, it indeed is much safer, faster, funnier....

Well, I guess you would not. Devs made the track go that way, it is the only correct way. I can understand the point. ....

But again, I repeat that I understand the idealistic point of view. :)

I see that you understand. But that logic does not make sense. For example: The speed limit on a highway is set to 50. Everyone on that road is going 70. The speed limit for that road is not 70 since everyone is going 70.

My experience tells me the complete opposite is true and I'll offer a couple of reasons for this.

Inexperienced drivers have a tendency to overshoot while navigating the chicane, then clip or crash into the left side wall, resulting in an often unavoidable roadblock for anyone unlucky enough to be following.

The chicane can't be taken two abreast while at speed, so the start of any race invariably leads to a game of chicken where drivers gamble that the other guy will slam on the brakes and back off first. A big problem given how many drivers there are who are willing to take a chance, and with a large grid you can almost guarantee someone will get it wrong.

There's quite a margin between the speed the top drivers and the slower racers can take the chicane. If you're following an unknown driver this can make the whole experience incredibly unpredictable, and all on a section of track with little grip or room for correction. It does provide plenty of opportunity for overtaking, but gaps are often small and tricky to squeeze through.
Bad drivers will cause problems wherever they're racing. Force them through a tight and testing area of track such as T1 rather than the allowing them to cut across the expanse of gravel into an easy left and you can expect them to be far more disruptive. I say this as someone who prefers to put up with this and drive the more conventional route....

I agree bad drivers are bad drivers, and that they cause problems wherever they are. That is why there is a vote kick option on most servers. When passing slower traffic it is up to the person passing to make the clean pass. If you feel you can't pass safely in a certain section, then don't pass there.

The chicane is a part of the track that makes BL2R what it is. Likewise, with any BLR layout, the corner is what gives the track character. It is like the chicane at Monza. Those kinds of corners compel everyone to want to get the best start for the position advantage, because they can not be taken two abreast. I would agree if the Monza chicane were bypassed that corner would be much safer as it would no longer be a corner. The same goes for BL2R. But the character of the track would be gone.

When taking the proper course though T1 at BL2R it is okay to use the sand tap as runoff in the situation of getting squeezed. This is much safer than trying to hold your line. However, this should never be an excuse for blowing though the corner.

[EQ Worry]

Eh, whatever. For me the most important thing to get from LFS is to have fun. Cutting the chicane on BL2R gives 100% more fun to ALL other people I was talking concerning this, to the people who tried. But really, it is a moot point. Unless BL2R makes it back demo, there's no need to discuss what would be better. And if demo ever sees BL2R again be sure to evade the AirAttack server (and most others, I'm sure). But that is probably unnecessary remark as well, making the whole matter yet more pointless. :tilt:

[legoflamb]

I am trying to discuss why any BL2R combo is not popular among the populated servers. Which is because of the different ways people want to take that corner.

[Hyperdrive]

Damn i wish i hadnt deleted my old "Monday Night Enduros BL2R" vid off youtube now :( and i cant find my copy of it here ....
I've been hoping you'd stumble across it again. They were fun times. :thumb:
I am trying to discuss why any BL2R combo is not popular among the populated servers. There is so little rallycross racing outside of BL2 any more that I'm not sure it's possible to guage the popularity of other combinations with much accuracy. What I can say is that before patch X, when BL2R was removed from the demo, it had maintained a high level of interest for a number of years. Certainly our main demo host was full on a daily basis, and a strong community of both demo and licensed racers built up around it.

Interesting what you say about T1 giving the track character, because this would be exactly the same argument that those who enjoyed cutting the track would put forward. It's worth noting that in the lower powered cars cutting the track isn't simply about heading straight for the corner at full speed. There's a specific route and technique that require accuracy, knowledge and practice to get right. Unless you were around in BL2's heyday this is a point that probably can't be appreciated, but perfecting the corner was always part of the tracks charm.

For the more powerful cars the situation is different, and I do think that allowing cutting takes away from the experience.

As EQ says, it really is a moot point. While BL2R will always be regarded as LFS's best rallycross track by a number of us, there just isn't much interest any longer. It needed the demo community to survive, and Patch X just picked it up and stuck it in an almighty chokehold.

[sinanju]

Just tried this for first ever time.

As someone who doesn't normally do rallyx, and prefers trying to keep it on the tarmac, it took me a while to understand what you meant be cutting the corner.

I originally thought you meant getting as close to the cones as possible.

Totally different mindset required for rallyx.

I've set one of my servers (Sin'rs) for BL2R, and will leave it like that for a while to see what happens.

However, people who join will be my guinea-pigs for the lapper scripts I make!

[AndRand]

bit offtopic: something that really surprises me is low popularity of XFR/UFR class.

[legoflamb]

....As EQ says, it really is a moot point. While BL2R will always be regarded as LFS's best rallycross track by a number of us, there just isn't much interest any longer. It needed the demo community to survive, and Patch X just picked it up and stuck it in an almighty chokehold.

I can see that it does require the demo population to get the servers going. Any variety in the demo will gather people who don't have a license since they are limited. Only having two tracks can get really boring. I don't think non-license holders deserve any more though.

[durrri]

Just tried this for first ever time.

As someone who doesn't normally do rallyx, and prefers trying to keep it on the tarmac, it took me a while to understand what you meant be cutting the corner.

I originally thought you meant getting as close to the cones as possible.

Totally different mindset required for rallyx.

I've set one of my servers (Sin'rs) for BL2R, and will leave it like that for a while to see what happens.

However, people who join will be my guinea-pigs for the lapper scripts I make!

i was wondering if it was based on this thread that i finally got to get some races on this combo ;ppp

thnx man!!! :thumb:

[Cenzor747]

and Yes, any rally track is fun in LX cars.. even though I suck :p

ANY track is fun in an LX, especially a '6 with a drift setup :D

[sinanju]

Ok, I've run one of my servers on BL2R for a full week, and logged number of people who've completed at least 1 outlap and 1 full lap, and have therefore recorded a lap time.

Discounting myself, average is just over 1 person per day.

[drone wolf]

I remember racing on that track when Air Attack I think it was about the only server to have people in it that raced clean. Then one day it wasn't there so I ended up going to normal bl rally. Only bad thing is that the populated rally servers all allow crashing so its like dodging moving land mines all through the race.

[Cenzor747]

I remember racing on that track when Air Attack I think it was about the only server to have people in it that raced clean. Then one day it wasn't there so I ended up going to normal bl rally. Only bad thing is that the populated rally servers all allow crashing so its like dodging moving land mines all through the race.

Still great fun, if you want to wind down and have a good, fun, laid-back :smileypulracing then BL rally is your man/track/thingy :D

[sinanju]

Ok, I've run one of my servers on BL2R for a full week, and logged number of people who've completed at least 1 outlap and 1 full lap, and have therefore recorded a lap time.

Discounting myself, average is just over 1 person per day.
I was on server for a while yesterday trying (and failing) to improve some of my times. No one joined.

Checked !top times, and no additional times have been recorded, so doesn't look like anyone's done 2 complete laps on server in last few days.

Therefore, I can only conclude that it's not a very popular combo, or the people who like that combo, have found something else meantime.

I've now changed combo to something else (FE2R) for me to put in some timed laps for others to aim for, so for me the experiment is over. :(

[Cenzor747]

Ahhh thats a shame, i remember when I first got lfs and was unused to the simulation aspect (having only really played arcade games such as Need for Speed) BL rally was the first track I was ever really good at, thrashing my rivals in my XRG, but that was ages ago and I miss it....

[drone wolf]

20th Dec 2009 is ages ago??
In dog years...

[Hyperdrive]

I was on server for a while yesterday trying (and failing) to improve some of my times. No one joined.

Checked !top times, and no additional times have been recorded, so doesn't look like anyone's done 2 complete laps on server in last few days.

Therefore, I can only conclude that it's not a very popular combo, or the people who like that combo, have found something else meantime.

I've now changed combo to something else (FE2R) for me to put in some timed laps for others to aim for, so for me the experiment is over. :(I wouldn't say it's due to BL2R being unpopular, I suspect you'd have seen similar results whatever rallycross track you'd gone with. Outside of the demo, the community interest in rally just isn't particularly apparent. For an unestablished host to pop up and have drivers connecting, it would take nothing short of a miracle right now.

This is one of the reasons that a few of us would like BL2R to make a return to the demo. Although limited to XFG and XRG, it would mean licensed racers could be guaranteed a decent sized grid without having to constantly do laps at BL2. And hopefully by bolstering the demo, and strengthening rallycross as a whole, the S2 side of things could see some rejuvenation.

[sinanju]

I put BL2R back on one of my servers again, and just for a laugh, I set time with all 20 of the available cars.

Seems people want to beat your time, no matter what the car / track combo, and the top 20 has a very non standard rallyx car listed a few times!

(Probably helps that it has grooved tyres).