Wind or No Wind in GTAL

[xtraction]

Hey guys.

As most of you know, Alot of us did a practice race on the RSR GTAL server. Deko and Mike Saidl wanted wind on, so it was turned on. A few people said no, but the rest kept themselfs to themselfs.

As i completed a few laps, i was seing alot of people crash and drop out. I was having major problems with turning and braking.

Most people blame the wind, So do i. Seing the GTAL league is for Amatures. I think that wind should NOT be allowed. Wind is in IGTC if im correct, and the IGTC consists of very experiance teams that are ABLE to deal with the wind. As the GTAL is not an experianced league, i think that wind should not be turned on.

Some of you may say "Well, To get experiance you may aswell deal with the wind now" or something along the lines of that. But the fact is, We are amatures, Alot of the people dont like wind im my opinion, and find it hard to deal with.

I hope that the GTAL Administrators take the poll votes into account and deal with it from there.

[boothy]

I blame shit drivers.

[J@tko]

Well back off for a lap until you know what the wind's like then. :shrug:

It's hardly rocket science - it's not like there's a hurricane pushing you off into the barriers.

[niall09]

The wind was awesome tonight though. :D

[RudolfR]

I actually like the wind :P, so i´ll vote yes

[leonardo555]

I prefer no wind. It "fu**s" the race, because each lap the wind has one position and one speed, and as everybody have maken sets without wind, if the race has wind, we all should make a new set, and no one would like it, even because we've already done stints.
So, NO WIND!!!!!!

[niall09]

I prefer no wind. It "fu**s" the race, because each lap the wind has one position and one speed.
So, NO WIND!!!!!!

I think if you raced tonight, you would change your mind.

The wind bring a little bit more of a challenge, but it makes some corners easier.

I found that it affected turn 1 a huge amount - massive oversteer on entry. T3 was into the wind, so you could brake late. T4 then was very slippery aswell. The oval corner you barely had to brake, you could go around it about 3-5mph faster. Then boothy chicane you could brake later and same with final corner.

It was really good fun tonight, although it I'm sure for the less experienced drivers, it may be difficult finding the limit.

[xtraction]

I blame shit drivers.


KNOCK KNOCK earth to boothy....... errrrrr amature's league...

[proa2414]

I voted "no" but i want to clearify.

It's pretty hard to say if we "need" wind or not because in one side, that reveals the good drivers who can improvise and change their apex but in an other side, it's really frustrating to race with it.
To be honest, i didn't enjoyed this race.

[kiste]

i prefer no wind. It "fu**s" the race, because each lap the wind has one position and one speed.
So, no wind!!!!!!

+1

[xtraction]

I found that it ruined my entire race. only in the last 2 laps i managed to get the hang of it :doh:

[RudolfR]

Wind makes the race much much more interesting and it´s not some kind of hotlaping anymore.

[CSF]

I found that it ruined my entire race. only in the last 2 laps i managed to get the hang of it :doh:



Last 2 laps... thats slightly concerning... maybe you shouldn't be on the track.

[xtraction]

tbh mate, i hadnt practice with wind, never raced with wind accept for 2 times. i found it very difficult. and without wind, i can stint, no problems.

[J@tko]

NDR Guide to wind:

Note your normal top speeds, apex speeds and braking points.



If you go faster than your normal top speed, the wind is behind you.
If you out-brake yourself into a corner, the wind is behind you.
If you go slower than your normal top speed, the wind is in your face.
If you slow down too quickly into a corner, the wind is in your face.

Thus you can work out the wind direction for the track, and Jim's your Mother's Sister's Brother-in-law.

[Seb66]

tbh mate, i hadnt practice with wind, never raced with wind accept for 2 times. i found it very difficult. and without wind, i can stint, no problems.

Thats the second time I've raced with wind, maybe you should get some skillzzz:x:thumb:

[boothy]

I thought Robert was my mother's brother? :really:

[CSF]

tbh mate, i hadnt practice with wind, never raced with wind accept for 2 times. i found it very difficult. and without wind, i can stint, no problems.

Do you do anything but whine like a little girl?

If you can't drive with a little bit of wind, god help you if any other condition comes. :thumb:

[ivantod]

some corners are better,some are harder,somewhere u need to brake earlier.....
I am practicing with wind as soon as i saw forecast for Kyoto Japan.
2 kmh to 11 kmh wind - no big deal.
15-24 kmh wind - hard

So,if we want to be like in real life,let admins restart untill we get certain speed of wind :)

[xtraction]

im not whining chris.. im just stating what is..

[MoMo92i]

NDR Guide to wind:

Note your normal top speeds, apex speeds and braking points.



If you go faster than your normal top speed, the wind is behind you.
If you out-brake yourself into a corner, the wind is behind you.
If you go slower than your normal top speed, the wind is in your face.
If you slow down too quickly into a corner, the wind is in your face.

Thus you can work out the wind direction for the track, and Jim's your Mother's Sister's Brother-in-law.

Wind is not so difficult to understand...just need to be more careful maybe but it is more realistic and it creat better situations and races more exiting !

[xtraction]

its an Amatures league... we should make it any more difficult than endurance is.

[pik_d]

its an Amatures league... we should make it any more difficult than endurance is.
It is equally as difficult as IGTC, with the exception of level of competition.

[z-ro 8]

so where is the "this is to prep you for MoE" arguement?

it seems as some rules fall under the "we are amatuers so change it" catagory, and some fall under the "this is to prepare you for MoE" catagory.

if you want realism, and the wind is "unrealistic", then you should also post a poll about anyone using anything but in-car view, because it too is "unrealistic"...correct?

whatever the rules are they are. if you are going to argue a point, there should be some consistency behind your view of how things should be.

i am not pointing fingers, making assumptions, or singling out anyone, but some people are on both sides of the fence.

do you want realism? do you want a challenge? or do you just want the rules changed to make it as easy as possible?

my personal opinion is (since LFS is a so-called simulator), force cockpit view, and throw in some wind if it posted in the rules there might be, and let us race. if i wanted to play a game using follow view, then i would fire up Gran Turismo 4 or Need for Speed and have a go.

these leagues are supposed to emulate racing. and racing has never been "easy".....at least not in my 15 years of doing it.

[xtraction]

It is equally as difficult as IGTC, with the exception of level of competition.

well not really, most IGTC competitors are alot more skilled than us.. and its not as equally difficult, shove some of us gtal in to igtc.. we'd get raped

[CSF]

You drove in IGTC...?

[AjRose]

<3 Wind.


Also, +1 Kev.

[xtraction]

ye, 2 times chris

[CSF]

So I'm confused what are you saying? :D

[xtraction]

im saying IGTC is alot more experianced, and so on.

[Drift King CZ]

Chmpf. I would do random wind. Like the LFS itself would choose the value but there always would be some wind.

[pik_d]

well not really, most IGTC competitors are alot more skilled than us.. and its not as equally difficult, shove some of us gtal in to igtc.. we'd get raped
I don't understand, I specifically mentioned the level of competition, then you go and argue using the exact thing I pointed out as the exception to disprove me. :shrug:

[xtraction]

ok then.. explain to me how it is as equally difficult

[pik_d]

Here are some things that both GTAL and IGTC have that MoE doesnt:

Wind if it calls for it
Hardcore qualifying
No rejoinging after shift+p
safety cars to take into account
(fastest) qualifier must drive the race (no hotlap ringers allowed)


Really there are very few things where GTAL is "easier" than IGTC, which the one huge exception of the level of skill required for entrance.

[xtraction]

point taken :D but still, where amatures.

[proa2414]

That's reminds me of that : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaZL6Bz2fG8

[Drift King CZ]

Is it real or someone just played with some tools?

[PMD9409]

Should make a thread to ban R2s because it gives an advantage but is hard to make a set for. So since you are amatuers it shouldn't be allowed.

Or you know what, lets race on pit road speed limiters.

Come on guys, try to learn and improve, not complain and whine.

[racer hero]

The current wind in LFS is too unrealistic to teach us s**t all. MoE doesn't use wind because it's too unrealistic, so both arguments are correct. We aren't being prepared for MoE currently, as they don't use wind, and this is an amateur league so there is no need for wind. :thumbsup:

[pik_d]

The current wind in LFS is too unrealistic to teach us s**t all. MoE doesn't use wind because it's too unrealistic, so both arguments are correct. We aren't being prepared for MoE currently, as they don't use wind, and this is an amateur league so there is no need for wind. :thumbsup:
But IGTC does, and honestly GTAL follows IGTC more closely than it does MoE.

And saying MoE doesn't use wind because it's unrealistic is pretty bollocks, they don't use safety cars, and they allow rejoining after you shift+p, both of which are very unrealistic.

[racer hero]

But IGTC does, and honestly GTAL follows IGTC more closely than it does MoE.

And saying MoE doesn't use wind because it's unrealistic is pretty bollocks, they don't use safety cars, and they allow rejoining after you shift+p, both of which are very unrealistic.

Go ask DWB why he doesn't use wind... He's said many times before that is the reason they don't use wind.

[pik_d]

The same DWB that is also an admin of IGTC? :razz:

[dekojester]

Because MoE doesn't do it doesn't mean we can't do it.

Because MoE does do it doesn't mean we have to do it.

Because IGTC doesn't do it doesn't mean we can't do it.

Because IGTC does do it doesn't mean we have to do it.

While we do take parts to resembe both series, we also are keeping it somewhat of a separate beast. It is designed to learn you endurance racing, and by taking parts of both series, we are attempting to prepare for both procedures-wise, but mostly prepare you simply for learning how to run fast, and not just for a lap or two, but for extended periods.

d

[AstroBoy]

Wind all the way.
If anyone doesnt like it drink a cup of cement and harden up.

[Gil07]

I can only imagine the whining if and when LFS gets rain :D

[Tomhah]

The wind model in LFS is far from realistic, which doesnt make it fun, imo. The wind in LFS is, as far as I know, not dynamic. The wind is like a fan, it wont change, and it keeps coming at the same speed over and over. The wind does only change the way the car behaves for the whole race. Its the same as driving with no wind, or much wind. All you have to do is to get a rythm, brake points, etc, and you're good to go. It might make it more challanging, but its not realistic. If we had proper wind, you might have needed to brake sliiiightly earlier or later in a corner, than you did 5 laps ago. Wind isnt constant in real life, which as far as I know it is in LFS. That takes away the point of having wind. You dont have to deal with it the whole race, just the first laps before you get used to how to drive it. The wind wont just out of a sudden be gone for a sec when you're gonna brake in LFS, like it can IRL. It wont go in circles, it wont change direction. It stays the same the whole race (as far as I know! :P). and from what I have noticed IRL compared to LFS, is that the wind in LFS makes too much impact.

aaand edit: As the wind in LFS is static, it will give some an advantage and other a disadvantage. The wind can make your setup awesome, or completely failure. That way, the wind in LFS atm is not fair. If you're lucky, you will have a damn good car for the whole race. If you're not, you will have a bad car the whole race. There is no way you can estimate where the wind will come from, its just pure luck. If the wind had been dynamic, it would give everyone advantages and disadvantages, and you would actually need to be careful, as the wind can change all the time.

double edit: This is not ment as whining about the wind, I just thought I could sate WHY I voted no for wind. :)
I have driven cars IRL with heavy vings, with almost no wind at all, and with a lot of wind. The difference isnt close to what it is in LFS from what I have experienced.

[z-ro 8]

well said tommy.

[xtraction]

I can only imagine the whining if and when LFS gets rain :D

if lfs had rain.. it would turn into dorifto mania :D

[racer hero]

If LFS had rain, it'd be great, because hopefully it'd be realisitic.

[Fuse5]

but it would have a hell of a lot of variables, intermediate wet, fully wet, damp etc.

with wind is more realistic, because in racing, you always have that variable, and its good that you wont really know how strong the wind will be, therefore making a more realistic league.

+1 to me

you're not even in the league

[Tomhah]

i know.

and i was meerly stating my opinion.

Did you read my message?

[kiste]

it is only shit to drive with 24km/h wind....
Our set ist completly a big fail with that much wind. it is a amateur series not a advanced driver event....
We need to drvie with wind but the big Serires like MoE aren´t drive with wind.

I wouldnt have wind!

Another thing is that you say this one day before -.- When we should start to build a set? 3 hours before?

[CSF]

You guys should try a nice cross wind at the corkscrew at AS7 like we had in IGTC this season, I would love to hear the crying and calling for mummy. :thumb:

BTW the wind is based on what the real life Kyoto weather is just now, hence why it was only known one day before. ;)

[sjoblom]

If u wanna do hotlapping there are other servers avaliable ... GTAL is about realistic endurance racing and of course there should be wind then ... or are we racing on the moon :smileypul

Just LOL reading posts stating there sets are not made for wind!
Wake up mates, this is a league for grown ups :thumb:

[GianniC]

Now if only the wind would be realistic....

[Tomhah]

If u wanna do hotlapping there are other servers avaliable ... GTAL is about realistic endurance racing and of course there should be wind then ... or are we racing on the moon :smileypul

Just LOL reading posts stating there sets are not made for wind!
Wake up mates, this is a league for grown ups :thumb:

But when the wind is far from realistic, should we really use it then?
If the wind was dynamic, in a proper way, I would say ALL IN FOR WIND!
But as its not, I dont see the point in having it :) Imo! :)

Just take today as an example. You just had to find out where the wind was coming, and drive after that, which takes you 5-10 laps (well, Im a noob, so it took me 10 laps :P). After that, its just to drive the same style the whole race, which takes away the meaning of wind. If the wind sometimes changed, and the wind was more "on and off" like IRL, you would need to be careful every corner, and you might need to adjust your line/braking points once in a while. Sometimes, the wind IRL changes all the time. Its not like a fan like it is in LFS, hence why I dont want wind.

I think you have got what I mean by now :D xD

[racer hero]

Wind was actually really good today, I liked it after a couple laps. Switch my vote to yes.

[AjRose]

Wind was actually really good today, I liked it after a couple laps. Switch my vote to yes.


:thumb:

[Jakg]

we all should make a new set, and no one would like it, even because we've already done stints.
You cannot make a "wind set". The whole point is that wind is inherently random.Wind is in IGTC if im correct, and the IGTC consists of very experiance teams that are ABLE to deal with the wind. As the GTAL is not an experianced league, i think that wind should not be turned on.Manual gears are also in the IGTC - does that mean you should use auto? What about cars - should you run the bloody race?

A "n00b league" should be a league in which the standard of competition is lower so the mid or back fielders get a proper chance to race - it certainly shouldnt be a place to bitch and moan because the basic art of car control is "too hard". I assume that you also drive UF1's because more than 55 BHP is "too hard" for inexperienced drivers?

I must admit the wind in LFS is a little overdone though

[sjoblom]

... What about cars - should you run the bloody race?
...
it certainly shouldnt be a place to bitch and moan because the basic art of car control is "too hard". I assume that you also drive UF1's because more than 55 BHP is "too hard" for inexperienced drivers? ...
:thumbsup::thumb::thumb:
Life is not perfect, LFS is not ... but how fun/interesting is LIFE if u remove all the "random" stuff ...
Personally I'm waiting for random weather on LFS ... will be GREAT if it starts to rain in an 3 hr race ... endurance is not about hotlaping friends :tilt:

[Seb66]

The wind was great. Loved the challenge

[racer hero]

The wind was great. Loved the challenge

I agree, it was so fun seeing who was able to adapt to it faster and who was able to get the most out of the situation.

[Seb66]

I agree, it was so fun seeing who was able to adapt to it faster and who was able to get the most out of the situation.

"Looks back at my first stint" :D

100% keep the wind.

[xtraction]

I love turn 9.................... NOT! wind was hard this race.

But, even though i dislike the wind in LFS, i fould it interesting.

[racer hero]

Turn 9 was great!!! Just brake after the shadow from the bridge and your set!

[niels1]

Hmm it wa a hard wind and turn 9 and the chicane was a bit struggling to begin with. But after a couple of laps it started to sink in and was fun. Agreed wind was a bit high but wasfun

[Seb66]

Turn 9 was great!!! Just brake after the shadow from the bridge and your set!

Yeah:smileypul
I loved that if you didn't get it hooked up with the apex the wind just pushed you straight towards the grass:D
Made you have to be so consistent.. separated the front from the back for sure.

[GreyBull [CHA]]

I actually enjoyed the wind during this race, it made the things very challenging, especially at turn 9. The only drawback is that we cannot know from where it is going to come before the start of the race, so we're discovering everything in the first laps, where the field is very tight, making the whole thing very dangerous. If you analyse that accident at the 1st start, you'll see that it was maily caused by the fact that several front runners got surprised by the wind and ran wide into the grass, causing a chain reaction behind them.

Don't forget that this is a sim, so this is based from real life stuff, where you'll always find much more important hazards than some wind blowing at medium speed. I hardly see any real life endurance drivers willing to stop a race because there's some rain for example:thumb:

[xtraction]

;1329209']I actually enjoyed the wind during this race, it made the things very challenging, especially at turn 9.


+1


I look forward to seing what effects the wind will have at SO :schwitz: