Guest teams or no guest teams, what do you think?

[racer hero]

Do you think guest teams in GTAL are necessary? The spot that they take up can be used for another GTAL level team to have a chance at the league that is meant for them, and it also removes the real feeling of winning from the team that should have won if the guest team wasn't involved.

Pros of guest teams:
-they set an example for us (which can be set by watching MoE/IGTC)

Conns:
-fill a spot which another team could use
-takes away the satisfaction of winning for GTAL teams

Tell me what you think.

[Scott Mckenzie]

Guest teams are not just there to set an example for us. They are there to give an indication as to how a perspective team would perform if they were to move to a league such as MoE, iirc this is a 'feeder' series?

Although I agree that 2nd place is not 1st place if the guest team wins, but it would also be very rewarding if a GTAL team pipped the guest team to the win - so it works both ways.

[racer hero]

Guest teams are not just there to set an example for us. They are there to give an indication as to how a perspective team would perform if they were to move to a league such as MoE, iirc this is a 'feeder' series?

Although I agree that 2nd place is not 1st place if the guest team wins, but it would also be very rewarding if a GTAL team pipped the guest team to the win - so it works both ways.

But thats unlikely to happen when they use there top MoE drivers.. And all those examples can be given by just watching a MoE or IGTC race stream, its not worth taking a spot away from a possible full time GTAL team.

[niall09]

But thats unlikely to happen when they use there top MoE drivers..

Hmm, I think you can see that we aren't using our top MoE drivers. We are using this invitation as an opportunity to give our lesser experienced drivers experience in endurance racing.

For the record, we just added Hugo as a backup driver because Eiw is having hardware issues.

[z-ro 8]

Considering the level of talent already in GTAL, i don't think we need a guest team "to show us how it's done".

How many teams throughout the season are going to sit on the sidelines and say, "Man if it wasn't for the guest team, we'd be racing"?

Giving one more team the opportunity to race could generate more interest....

What if one team, outside the top 10 in points, were allowed to invite a guest driver? Said driver would have to follow the percentage rules, but could boost one team's performance, moral, interest in competing, and maybe even confidence.

I'm sure NDR could figure out an interesting way on how to choose which team would be picked for each round.

My $.02

[niels1]

Well its a bit in the middle for me just like deadbone and scott here.
I totally agree on with you Kenneth that they take up a spot.
However thier here to show us the way it should be done as well.
But since they are normaly way up front it doesnt really help the guys who are trying their hardest but cant compete.

So in the end I think we can loose a guest team and hand over the spot to another new team so they can learn the ropes.

[racer hero]

Hmm, I think you can see that we aren't using our top MoE drivers. We are using this invitation as an opportunity to give our lesser experienced drivers experience in endurance racing.

For the record, we just added Hugo as a backup driver because Eiw is having hardware issues.

Hugo is a top MoE driver, backup or not. Either way, I wasn't talking about you guys, but guest teams in general. I know we won't be able to enforce this by this round...

[racer hero]

Considering the level of talent already in GTAL, i don't think we need a guest team "to show us how it's done".

How many teams throughout the season are going to sit on the sidelines and say, "Man if it wasn't for the guest team, we'd be racing"?

Giving one more team the opportunity to race could generate more interest....

What if one team, outside the top 10 in points, were allowed to invite a guest driver? Said driver would have to follow the percentage rules, but could boost one team's performance, moral, interest in competing, and maybe even confidence.

I'm sure NDR could figure out an interesting way on how to choose which team would be picked for each round.

My $.02

Or we could pick the guest team as someone on the reserve list, so they all get a chance? :shy: Sure, there not setting an example anymore, but like you said, I'm sure Tommy can take care of setting the example. :razz:

[Tomhah]

Nah, I dont have time to prepare properly for these races anymore, as MoE takes my time now. But I will still be driving and try my best :P But I just dont manage to switch from XRR GT1 to FZ2 on a day :P

I agree with you, Kenneth. GTAL already has some talents, and a guest-team isnt needed. I think you first have to focus on beating the teams in GTAL, THEN move up to beat the teams in MoE :P

As you might know, Kenneth did MoE yesterday and did a pretty good job. The GTAL drivers can first focus on beating him (or me for instance:shy:) before they start fighting with the top teams. For example: How much did we need spdo in R1? Who got better because spdo were taking part? I bet thats pretty much zero... :P

[GreyBull [CHA]]

Considering the level of talent already in GTAL, i don't think we need a guest team "to show us how it's done".

How many teams throughout the season are going to sit on the sidelines and say, "Man if it wasn't for the guest team, we'd be racing"?

Giving one more team the opportunity to race could generate more interest....


+1.


But well, honestly, why not then allow 30 cars instead of 29, and get rid of the SC at SO, like how it's done at MoE? Or even, organise a pre-qual session at each event in order to pick the 29 for each race(cmon, 4 quali session are currently held at each event, so why can't we scrap 1 or 2 and do that?)

These are my own 2 cents.

[z-ro 8]

;1324648']+1.


But well, honestly, why not then allow 30 cars instead of 29, and get rid of the SC at SO, like how it's done at MoE? Or even, organise a pre-qual session at each event in order to pick the 29 for each race(cmon, 4 quali session are currently held at each event, so why can't we scrap 1 or 2 and do that?)

These are my own 2 cents.


then it would be iTCC :D

[HVS5b]

I think its much fairer to include another team from the waiting list rather than the guest teams. This adds a more realistic depth of field ability/spread.

[Tomhah]

most of the voters FOR a guest team is MoE drivers (or managers :P) well, some :P

[PMD9409]

I don't know about you guys, but if I was serious about endurance racing and wanted to get into MoE/IGTC then I would want a guest team. Why wouldn't you want to know where you shape up vs a great team?

I thought this series was a building block, but how can you become better when you have nothing to compare to?

[GreyBull [CHA]]

then it would be iTCC :D

Errrh... Yea. But wouldn't it be a bit fairer, honestly?

Actually, the 4 last full-time slots teams were choosen because of obscure judgements that were never revealed in public, so wouldn't it bring a bit more equality to judge on the team's performance, and on their performances only?

I also wanted to say that I fully agree with Tommy, and that I do think that spdo's race in round 1 was a pure farce. They came unprepared, without enough drivers, and ended their race at 1/3 way point. While, there were at least 3 teams(VM, Tiger Express, IRM, and possibly a few others) that actually trained for the event, went at RSR's test race in order to gain more experience, and put a lot of efforts without being reconpensed in the end. They all had a reasonabily decent rooster, with ex-MoE/IGTC drivers looking for re-boosting their carriers, and other pure talents looking for more endurance experience; their only default was that they weren't called "3id", or "spdo". Isn't that a bit injust, honestly?

[racer hero]

I don't know about you guys, but if I was serious about endurance racing and wanted to get into MoE/IGTC then I would want a guest team. Why wouldn't you want to know where you shape up vs a great team?

I thought this series was a building block, but how can you become better when you have nothing to compare to?

You don't need a guest team to do that. Watch the MoE tracker/stream and watch there times and you'll be able to compare yourself to the top teams much better then you will be able to when they are driving off into the distance.

[z-ro 8]

@ yann...fairer yes. but then you're talking about revamping the whole system.

kenneth, as surprising as it is, has a very valid point, and is only asking that one aspect of GTAL be "considered for change", not a complete redo of the system that it is....

as far as needing a MoE-quality team in these races, i don't.
i already know, not just by watching MoE yesterday, that i for one am not MoE material.

Don't need a team i'll never see in a race i'm in......

[PMD9409]

most of the voters FOR a guest team is MoE drivers (or managers :P) well, some :P

Hmm.. the more experienced ones all vote for the same thing. Sure that ain't sayin something? :D

[GreyBull [CHA]]

I don't know about you guys, but if I was serious about endurance racing and wanted to get into MoE/IGTC then I would want a guest team. Why wouldn't you want to know where you shape up vs a great team?

I thought this series was a building block, but how can you become better when you have nothing to compare to?

Honestly, there are enough ex-MoE/IGTC drivers in there, including top ones.

Edit by deko - let's not bring specific drivers into this shall we?

Edit, by your servitor - Oh right, just wanted to give some examples, in order to make the things clearer to everyone :hide:

[Drift King CZ]

+1 racer hero, no guest teams.

[xtraction]

Guest teams should be allowed.

[MoMo92i]

I don't understand that topic...indeed one more car could be nice for the show but guest team creat a kind of new motivation i think.

Let me explain what i want to say. Last year when i was not yet racing in moe i was more motivated by beating these moe drivers than winning the 'gtal race'. And if you check last year result, you can see that fluid beat core at bl1r, eteam beat spdo at so and low racing is the only guest team who won a gtal race and it wasn't easy for them! isn't it more motivating to race against moe drivers to show them that you aren't so amateur?

Maybe this is what enable raptor, fluid, eer and eteam to be this year in moe because they have shown that they can beat moe teams in one race.

Regards.

[pik_d]

;1324686']Honestly, there are enough ex-MoE/IGTC drivers in there, including top ones.

E : And let's not forget the people doing both MoE and GTAL(Kenneth, Tommy:hide:)
Don't forget Seb. :razz:

I think they should stay, if only so that we have a better comparison as to where we stand in reference to MoE teams. I didn't watch GTAL last year (except some of the Round 1 replay) but it sounds like in none of the races the MoE team zoomed off into the distance.

For the top GTAL teams at least, that's a great motivator to continue what they're doing, as they can see how close they are to MoE standards of pace. For guys like Yann and others who didn't get in... well I'm sure NDR did their best to be fair to everyone. I'm sure Tiger Express will get in by the end of the season at least. :shrug:

[GianniC]

;1324686']And let's not forget the people doing both MoE and GTAL(Kenneth, Tommy, Seb)

That bugs me more than a guest team.

Though I voted no:
- They do not contribute that much at all.
- They can be seen in MoE / IGTC broadcasting action live.
- They often provide more frustration than joy; not all guest teams perform well and are as pro as they might look - they can also cause crashes during races with championship consequences for us but zero for them. I'd rather have a 30rd active team racing then. It's not like there is no interest for people to join up in GTAL that we need "top teams" to fill up the slots. Now I'm thinking about this, it's actually pretty rude to use this guest team while people are eager, amateurs and wanting to race! Especially if you go announce them like Round 2 guest team is being announced...
- And last but not least: realism (not to forget in LFS). If we want to add realism by using annoying wind, rolling starts, safety cars, heavy rules and other; then also do it with the drivers and teams. I don't see Vettel (to take a well known example) driving in the GP2 during the F1 season to "motivate the GP2 racers and to show them how it has to be done". I neither see him racing officialy in NASCAR and F1 at the same time (to end up with my pointé from the very first line in this post).

If I want to race MoE or IGTC folks I'd join those leagues and not GTAL. Imho the "amateurism" in GTAL really isn't so present as I had expected / hoped for in GTAL. Not really sure (aside that I suck, obviously) why I signed up for GTAL and not for IGTC.

[PMD9409]

For people that take this serious, you sure aren't willing to learn.

[Tomhah]

For people that take this serious, you sure aren't willing to learn.

Learn by what? I bet he wont learn much by having a guest car driving miles in front of him. :P

[Cawwa]

I voted no, since we are eager to get into this league ... :)
Imo we don't learn much from guest teams. As I understood the GTALeague it's suposed to learn noobs and rookies how you do endurance races with driver swaps, setups and tactics. Your place at the grid and the result table speaks for it self at the end of the day. A guest team don't change that or put you down a place unless you don't beat them.
For us on the waiting list we learn more by racing then watching!!

[J@tko]

IMO it depends on how you view the GTAL.



An way to gain experience in Endurance Racing
A pathway to IGTC/MoE

If you're in GTAL for #1, then you don't want/need guest teams. If you're in the second category, then yes it could be useful.

[PMD9409]

Learn by what? I bet he wont learn much by having a guest car driving miles in front of him. :P

And you learn from that, and throughout the season you will start being able to stay up with the quicker teams. So then when you enter IGTC/MoE you have the confidence and ability to perform well.

[niels1]

And you learn from that, and throughout the season you will start being able to stay up with the quicker teams. So then when you enter IGTC/MoE you have the confidence and ability to perform well.

I due hope youre right there. However I highly doubt if we will. I dont know how the restrictions are setup in MoE but in GTAL the difference atm is too much. The difference a lape on a long track is around 2 or 3 seconds. I can see the FZR and XRR just ran off in the distance. I cant really learn from that. :shrug:

[Tomhah]

And you learn from that, and throughout the season you will start being able to stay up with the quicker teams. So then when you enter IGTC/MoE you have the confidence and ability to perform well.

pfff...

You're better off with watching replays of MoE.

If most of the guys who actually drive says we dont need it, I bet they dont. Its better that 1 more team races, than having a guest-team, imo.

[Gil07]

Thankfully, it isn't up to you. I'm sure Deko realises the importance of the guest team, and it will stay ;)

[boothy]

- They often provide more frustration than joy; not all guest teams perform well and are as pro as they might look - they can also cause crashes during races with championship consequences for us but zero for them.

If I want to race MoE or IGTC folks I'd join those leagues and not GTAL. Imho the "amateurism" in GTAL really isn't so present as I had expected / hoped for in GTAL. Not really sure (aside that I suck, obviously) why I signed up for GTAL and not for IGTC.

Let's be honest I or Gil have more chance of doing IGTC than you so chuck that strawman out the window, thanks.

Obviously you haven't seen any of last year's races where CoRe had a great fight with Karma at R1, #low werent that far ahead of EER in R2, R3 n/a, spdo had a 3 way battle for the lead with E-team and the Polish team, R5 n/a, the teams there were good additions to the field.

So yeah for once I agree with Gil :smileypul

[pearcy_2k7]

Don't see that much of the big deal tbh Tommy and Ken are now MoE drivers and both have participated in IGTC. Most of the guest teams don't field the big big guns anyway, because most of them are inactive, only MoE brings them back to LFS.

So if you want to moan about guest teams, then i suggest you pull out too as its unfair now because you have a seat in MoE (and as far as i know always could have if you could be bothered) its just a little rich coming from you Ken. Tommy is not as bad because at the start of the season he had to team, you had one with 2 cars and your a good driver, big fish little pond and all that... Tommy has a harder time with 1 car and the reigning champs as his team. Have a nice time cheating the whole purpose of the league.

[Tomhah]

I have NOT participated in either MoE or IGTC :P But I might retire from GTAL, now that Im most probably gonna do MoE. But Im for that you can do MoE AFTER a started GTAL season, as that can help the step from GTAL to MoE to be a bit smoother.

[pearcy_2k7]

For drivers like you and Ken there shouldn't even be a step, its not some magical league, if your a good driver and have some decent reults there will be no problems all the drivers in there cureently have had no "step" it should be for drivers new to endurance racing, even though its actually not a whole lot different to say a 20minute race. The only reason it would be usefull is for teams taking on someone who shows potential but not at MoE level, to see what they can do.

You two are already experienced in alot of leagues, so what the need is for you two to drive GTAL i really do not know, ill go back to the big fish in a small pond idea...

[dekojester]

IMO it depends on how you view the GTAL.



An way to gain experience in Endurance Racing
A pathway to IGTC/MoE

If you're in GTAL for #1, then you don't want/need guest teams. If you're in the second category, then yes it could be useful.

+1.

Guest teams will stay for now. I'll leave this thread open until either

a) The discussion runs its due course (when the horse is dead and still being beaten) or
b) Nothing but attacks or comments directed at one.

I've deleted several posts that fall under the category of b).

Let's keep this discussion civil and about the pros and cons and your reasons for wanting/not wanting a guest team.

But let's be sure to focus on Round 2 which is currently very much higher on the importance scale than whether or not to have a guest team.

[racer hero]

For drivers like you and Ken there shouldn't even be a step, its not some magical league, if your a good driver and have some decent reults there will be no problems all the drivers in there cureently have had no "step" it should be for drivers new to endurance racing, even though its actually not a whole lot different to say a 20minute race. The only reason it would be usefull is for teams taking on someone who shows potential but not at MoE level, to see what they can do.

You two are already experienced in alot of leagues, so what the need is for you two to drive GTAL i really do not know, ill go back to the big fish in a small pond idea...

We drive in GTAL for fun and for wins... just like were all suppost to be playing this game for FUN and competitiveness.

[Tomhah]

For drivers like you and Ken there shouldn't even be a step, its not some magical league, if your a good driver and have some decent reults there will be no problems all the drivers in there cureently have had no "step" it should be for drivers new to endurance racing, even though its actually not a whole lot different to say a 20minute race. The only reason it would be usefull is for teams taking on someone who shows potential but not at MoE level, to see what they can do.

You two are already experienced in alot of leagues, so what the need is for you two to drive GTAL i really do not know, ill go back to the big fish in a small pond idea...

I didnt say that I needed it. But imo, its good for new guys to LFS/endurance. The rule isnt good for me, as its correct what you say, I can do MoE for a not-top-team. I was a backup for F1RST at Westhill, so I couldnt drive for anyone else. I did R1 of GTAL, as I havent done many endurance races in my past, and thought it was a nice opertunity for me to gain some more experience, and to show what I got. Now, I havent had any time to practise for GTAL, because I have practised for MoE. Thats why I think I will retire from GTAL, because there's no point in driving just for driving, when MoE takes my time. I think its some kind of "unfair" for the other drivers :P So, there yah go :P

[HVS5b]

For people that take this serious, you sure aren't willing to learn.

Theres quite a few fast teams up the front of GTAL who are plenty fast enough for us to learn from.


Guest teams will stay for now. I'll leave this thread open until.....



Thats a shock....:x
Not.

[GianniC]

1. A way to gain experience in Endurance Racing
2. A pathway to IGTC/MoE
GTAL is here to give rookies a chance to gain endurance racing experience, that's how GTAL was introduced to us. And the big difference between 1 & 2 is.... euhm, what exactly? It can give a pathway to racing in IGTC but that's up to yourself in my eyes. If you're quick enough in laptimes I don't see that much difference between IGTC and GTAL at all.

And you learn from that, and throughout the season you will start being able to stay up with the quicker teams. So then when you enter IGTC/MoE you have the confidence and ability to perform well.

You're not faster because of a team driving in front of you for 3-6 or 12 hours. You get faster because you analyse replays, work on setup creating, teambuilding and doing your mileage. You gain the needed confident and experience by winning racing battles in GTAL, no guest team at all needed for that.. in fact, the opposite! You need equal competitors in order to gain dueling and passing experience.

If the guest team would for example post well upfront the qualify their qualifying setup or for the race their racing setup with detailled information on why exactly the camber in the set is set on -0.2 and not on +0.4 on this specific track (for example); then we can start talking about them contributing to our speed, setup creating skills and learning. But for now I really lack to see what they contribute to GTAL. Give us a 30th team and more racing action on our own amateur level.

If you want to compare yourself on MoE level, go practice some on the public servers who're crowded with MoE racers when they are training in the last week before a race. Simple really.

Guest teams will stay for now. I'll leave this thread open until either

Don't forget to give the poll voting result a look as well... 60% says remove.

[GianniC]

This is an NDR event why should they listen to the poll?

I didn't said they are forced to listen or follow up the poll result, I merely said don't forget to give a look at the pool. Looking doesn't harm, touching however.... :x

:p

[CSF]

Exactly touching it just now would cause harm, we agree. :razz: :D

[racer hero]

And 10 of the votes to keep guest teams are none-GTAL drivers.

[CSF]

And there are 11 or so voting for no guest teams ken so whats your point? ;)

[racer hero]

Theres 4..

[CSF]

Canadian schools must be really terrible then. :nod:

[Humbleridderen]

I voted no, since we are eager to get into this league ... :)
Imo we don't learn much from guest teams. As I understood the GTALeague it's suposed to learn noobs and rookies how you do endurance races with driver swaps, setups and tactics. Your place at the grid and the result table speaks for it self at the end of the day. A guest team don't change that or put you down a place unless you don't beat them.
For us on the waiting list we learn more by racing then watching!!

+1

I think the best way the "pro´s" can help is during the practice. Helping as many teams they can to be faster. They can make practice races, where we can try to challenge them, but when the real GTAL race starts, they don´t need to be there.

So if a pro team is just there for showing they are the fastest, i cannot see the point. It´s about helping, not showing off.

[pik_d]

+1

I think the best way the "pro´s" can help is during the practice. Helping as many teams they can to be faster. They can make practice races, where we can try to challenge them, but when the real GTAL race starts, they don´t need to be there.

So if a pro team is just there for showing they are the fastest, i cannot see the point. It´s about helping, not showing off.
:doh: The guest team has only won once. If the guys up front (the ones most likely to make the step to MoE/IGTC) are having a battle with a MoE/IGTC team how is that not beneficial? Read the thread, many people have points out that the guest team doesn't fly away from the field and show that they are fastest.

On the other hand, if the guest teams shows up and laps the entire field then that would be a great wake up call that we ALL screwed up at that event. Either way, it's a great motivator (though positive or negative reinforcement, really up to us GTAL guys to decide).

[GianniC]

The guest team has only won once.

Exactly! So what are they actually contributing besides DENYING another amateur team of participating in this great experience and well run league ?!

[boothy]

Don't be a numpty. They can do no good in your eyes because if they win then they're obviously too good and shouldn't be there but if they fail then they shouldn't be there either because they're denying another team getting in (despite 28 being the maximum anyway).

[GianniC]

hm hm hm hm

Boothy understands me. :D

[hyntty]

This is an NDR event why should they listen to the poll?

Indeed. Why should we listen to you? :smileypul

[GianniC]

Indeed. Why should we listen to you? :smileypul

Because I paypal donated to you ? :smileypul

[PMD9409]

Ahhh, so you are trying to pay your way into changing things around. :smileypul

[pik_d]

Exactly! So what are they actually contributing besides DENYING another amateur team of participating in this great experience and well run league ?!
Please tell me you're being dense on purpose... please... :schwitz:


They're up there running with the top GTAL guys showing them how a MoE/IGTC team acts in close racing. This is much better for everyone than having another team 4 laps down.

[Tomhah]

Please tell me you're being dense on purpose... please... :schwitz:


They're up there running with the top GTAL guys showing them how a MoE/IGTC team acts in close racing. This is much better for everyone than having another team 4 laps down.

TEM who got 6th in the test-race wasnt 4 laps down and is on the waiting list ;) for example :P

[pik_d]

TEM who got 6th in the test-race wasnt 4 laps down and is on the waiting list ;) for example :P
Yes, but I think some of the reason they didn't get in is because at the time a few of their members were in SRLT. I could be wrong though. I would hazard a guess that they wouldn't have gotten in even if there was no guest-spot due to those circumstances.

[z-ro 8]

+1

I think the best way the "pro´s" can help is during the practice. Helping as many teams they can to be faster. .....

some "pro's" would much rather come to a server to prove a point and say, "look i can do it, you're just slow" instead of offering any kind of help to a sub-par team in the spirit of competition.

pretty disrespectful if ya ask me.....

[niall09]

some "pro's" would much rather come to a server to prove a point and say, "look i can do it, you're just slow" instead of offering any kind of help to a sub-par team in the spirit of competition.

pretty disrespectful if ya ask me.....

If people asked for some help, they would get it.

I think a sand removal kit is needed for a lot of people here.

[pik_d]

some "pro's" would much rather come to a server to prove a point and say, "look i can do it, you're just slow" instead of offering any kind of help to a sub-par team in the spirit of competition.

pretty disrespectful if ya ask me.....
I'm not even all that fast and I'm somehow insulted by this comment. Pull your head out of your ass if you really think that the so-called aliens are jerks who want to show-boat in front of the little guys. Maybe there are "some" but in my 80k miles of LFS I haven't seen any.

My3id isn't even using their all-star team (they explained hugo is backup), and neither did spdo. Have you bothered asking any of the good teams for help? PMD said he did some laps in the FXR, has it even dawned on you to ask him for suggestions on how to get up to his pace?

In my personal experience the really fast guys are more than happy to help slower people. I've personally had several guys from spdo, nfinity, Sonicrealms, CoRe, EER, F1RST and possibly more that I'm forgetting help me out when all I've done is ask (not all of this was for GTAL). Some merely provided me with sets, but some guys (picking out Sonicrealms' junkan and nfinity's [DUcK] as the best examples) have taken the time to tell me what I'm doing wrong and how I can improve. Hell, I've even got a set or two from Mr. "go die in a fire" scipy simply because I was on the same server practicing and asked him.

[tmehlinger]

some "pro's" would much rather come to a server to prove a point and say, "look i can do it, you're just slow" instead of offering any kind of help to a sub-par team in the spirit of competition.

pretty disrespectful if ya ask me.....

I think there's only a handful of guys, if any, who would show up and rub a win in everyone's face. They drive to win and have fun just like everyone else, they just happen to regularly drive in a league that's known for its quick drivers. I think you're just preemptively butthurt about getting lapped by someone who "shouldn't be in the league."

I don't care if MoE drivers or the one-armed five-year-old down the street are lapping quicker than I am, I'm obviously doing something wrong in either case and I take that experience to heart. Quit being offended by nothing.

[scipy]

Hell, I've even got a set or two from Mr. "go die in a fire" scipy simply because I was on the same server practicing and asked him.

Thau shall not use the Lord's name in vain.

[ivantod]

I believe in God and I believe in scipy !

[racer hero]

I believe in God and I believe in scipy !

Same thing...

[pik_d]

Thau shall not use the Lord's name in vain.
Strike not me down oh Lord, I was simply trying to prove a point. :sorry:

[tmehlinger]

Strike not me down oh Lord, I was simply trying to prove a point. :sorry:

http://i48.tinypic.com/28sn14o.jpg

[Dmt]

Same thing...
thats cause you want his sets

[z-ro 8]

i dont talk "with my head in my ass" and don't make statements on assumptions, only facts.

if you weren't there, you don't know.
simple as that.

[racer hero]

thats cause you want his sets

And who doesn't?

[pik_d]

i dont talk "with my head in my ass" and don't make statements on assumptions, only facts.

if you weren't there, you don't know.
simple as that.
I just went back and read all your posts in this thread and didn't find a single one of these so-called "facts" you speak of. :shrug:

If you'll notice, I use plenty of "facts" in my arguments, ranging from the fact that people have helped me when I asked to the fact that not all of the MoE teams have won the races they entered and the fact that they don't just use their star drivers.

[tmehlinger]

i dont talk "with my head in my ass" and don't make statements on assumptions, only facts.

if you weren't there, you don't know.
simple as that.

I'm guessing the "fact" is that you had a bad experience with one or two people and have generalized it to every last driver that could be invited as a guest. Bitter much?

[dekojester]

FINAL WARNING !

If you cannot keep this discussion civilized and resort to personal attacks, your post WILL be deleted and you WILL be placed on 6 months NDR probation for unsporting behaviour.

Final Warning.

Clean it up - talk about benefits/drawbacks of guest teams - not about who has the biggest ego or this that and the other. TALK ABOUT THE TOPIC, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PART OF THE TOPIC.

d

[CELTIC100]

I don't understand that topic...indeed one more car could be nice for the show but guest team creat a kind of new motivation i think.

Let me explain what i want to say. Last year when i was not yet racing in moe i was more motivated by beating these moe drivers than winning the 'gtal race'. And if you check last year result, you can see that fluid beat core at bl1r, eteam beat spdo at so and low racing is the only guest team who won a gtal race and it wasn't easy for them! isn't it more motivating to race against moe drivers to show them that you aren't so amateur?

Maybe this is what enable raptor, fluid, eer and eteam to be this year in moe because they have shown that they can beat moe teams in one race.

Regards.

I have read through the whole post and this is the post which stands out for me in particular, the reason being the results themselves just do not add up.

The flipside :

It does seem clear from this post that the main reason the GTAL teams have a good record against MOE teams is simple basics as in Practice, Preparation and Motivation as found in nearly all leagues within LFS, I cannot personally see an MOE team putting in the same amount of effort into a GTAL round as they would do for an MOE round - hence the results to date.

I am not faulting any MOE team over this as I believe it's just human nature regarding motivation and a time management issue when the two series are running simultaneously infact the MOE team has more to lose than to gain by taking up the offer to race as has been shown by the results.

I look around at the driver names competing in GTAL and most drivers are not new to LFS as most have at least a couple of years experience but it's good to have leagues such as GTAL and IGTC which we as seasoned racers can hone our skills to attain and strive to gaining MOE standards as has been shown so early within this season :thumb:

As for my personal opinion on guest teams I would have to conclude their participation has a minimal effect within the league itself.

RSR Celtic100.

[pearcy_2k7]

FINAL WARNING !

If you cannot keep this discussion civilized and resort to personal attacks, your post WILL be deleted and you WILL be placed on 6 months NDR probation for unsporting behaviour.

Final Warning.

Clean it up - talk about benefits/drawbacks of guest teams - not about who has the biggest ego or this that and the other. TALK ABOUT THE TOPIC, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PART OF THE TOPIC.

d

lol

[sjoblom]

I can't see any meaning with having a guest team!
They are only occupying a spot from a team that might learn a LOT MORE having the chance to anticipate in this league ... than the team already in will learn from the guest team!
Viewed the broadcast today ... and IMO the the guest team didn't add anything at all to the race ... i would say they did the opposite!

Skip the guest team ASAP pls, and give room for a upcoming team on the grid :thumb:

[Tomhah]

Had a great battle with 3id today, which I loved. However, another team would have needed their spot :P But I like to battle, so I like that, but its bad for the teams who dont get to drive :P

[dekojester]

Guest team WILL STAY for this season. We will reopen this discussion after season's end.