Test Patch Z28 (installer test + minor updates)

[Scawen]

WARNING : THIS IS A TEST

THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN NEW PHYSICS / VW SCIROCCO / ROCKINGHAM

Hello Racers, here is a new Test Patch : Z28. It is fully compatible with version Z25.

Please keep a backup of your LFS.exe from version Z25 so you can go back to Z25 if there are any problems.

This is mainly about the new installer which Victor has been working on. It will be very helpful for new users, who often had problems with the self-extracting archives we used until now and sometimes installed LFS into the wrong place.

Thank you translators, for making and updating the new installer translations. :)

The installer gives you a default folder of C:\LFS but you can choose wherever you like. Vista and Windows 7 users should preferably not use their Program Files folder because of some issues that come up.

The installer is very non-intrusive, it just does a normal LFS install and adds an icon to your desktop (if you wish) and a start menu item (if you wish). Also optional is an auto setup of file associations for SPR / MPR / LYT and SET files. There is always at least one entry made to the registry, to allow the uninstaller to work. If you want to recreate an old-style install, with nothing added to the registry and no shortcuts you can follow the following steps :

1) Install LFS (you can disable file associations and shortcuts during the install if you like)
2) Uninstall LFS - you'll see an option that allows you to leave the LFS folder in place. All registry entries and shortcuts will be removed.

Also new is updated support for the URL lfs:// which can be used to start LFS using a command line from a web page. This is the new method for "LFS Join" links at www.lfsworld.net and from the forum. Previously a special program needed to be installed but now the links will work for any copy of LFS installed using the installer.

You can test the full version installer, or you can use the Z25 to Z28 patch installer. This will require you to select your existing LFS folder.


IMPORTANT NOTE : You will need to unlock after installing Z28!

This is because of a fix for hibernating computers losing their unlock.
We have made sure you have some unlocks spare. :)
You do not need to unlock again if you already unlocked with Z27.


Changes in Z28 :

Reduced minimum speed in SHIFT+U mode to 0.1 m/s
FIX : Could not join S1 or S2 host after unlocking in Multiplayer screen
FIX : Multiple host passwords are now stored for local network ip / port


Changes from Z25 to Z27 :

Various updates to translations
Reduced minimum view height in SHIFT+U mode
Added support for lfs:// start LFS with command line from web page
Multiple host passwords are now stored (Join Specific Host screen)
FIX : It was possible to reset the car while a vote was in progress
FIX : Clicking SPR / MPR did not work if "Load track when starting"
FIX : Help buttons sometimes translated after returning to English
FIX : Two or more dedicated hosts could be started with same port


DOWNLOADS :

PATCH Z25 to Z28 (installer) (Z25 must already be installed) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_PATCH_Z25_TO_Z28_setup.exe (2.3 MB)

FULL VERSION Z28 (installer) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_Z28_setup.exe (134 MB)

DEDICATED HOST Z28 (non-graphical version for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_Z28.zip (1.6 MB)

[bmwe30m3]

Gonna try
[edit]: so far cant find any bugs.

[matseracer]

i can feel we are getting closer to 0.6A. gonna try now :thumb: second post yeah

[aroX123]

Great!

[Bean0]

It even remembered no shortcuts, excellent :D

[Dmt]

Scawen loves to tease whole community with these test patches :D

[hotmail]

Well what can i say, I installed every testpatch sofar. And the is the best one sofar, the best installer.

it remembers everything:
Shortcut
Protical url stuff
etc,

Just perfect:), Excelllent work, No bug found sofar!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[bavorak]

thx for doing the change for me so quickly :thumb: ...I am really surprised and pleased
it is nice that devs care about opinion and needs of every racer :)

[Tomba(FIN)]

You said you stop working with the test patches and will work on the new physics etc :really:

[EliteAti]

No bugs found and the installer remembers everything :thumbsup:

[Scawen]

You said you stop working with the test patches and will work on the new physics etc :really:Yes, that's what I did, for some weeks I worked on the new physics, just as I said.

Victor pointed out the need for an installer and I agree, it's very important for LFS. He also does technical support so knows better than anyone the problems that come up.

I don't think Victor or I realised quite the little journey it would take us on, but I'm very pleased with the result and think it was well worth a few days off the physics, to help inlclude the URL association and fix the other Z25 issues.

[Scawen]

We just made one small change to the Z25_TO_Z28 patch. Now, if you do happen to place it in an existing LFS Z25 folder, then it will use the current folder as the default install location and in that case you don't need to navigate to your LFS folder. Otherwise the navigation starts at C:\LFS just as before.

That is important for two reasons :

1) Many LFS users will download straight into their LFS folder anyway - so this saves the additional navigation

2) It means it should be possible to put the Z25_TO_Z28 patch on the auto update system and it will work easily (though I have not tested this yet).

The updated patch is available using the same link in the first post.

[Bub]

woah, nice job, gon test it out :)

[(The Stig)]

Thanks Scawen

[BOSCHO]

there are some bugs with the Nvidia 3D view.
From the outside is perfect but from the inside nvidia cant render the car correct.. i will give support for what you devs need to make the perfect render from the inside. The problem is that Nvidia renders the interior good but the place of the rendered image is placed more to the left and it can make a correct 3D object

[Ripley]

...Now, if you do happen to place it in an existing LFS Z25 folder, then it will use the current folder as the default install location and in that case you don't need to navigate to your LFS folder. Otherwise the navigation starts at C:\LFS just as before...
Nope.
I moved the Z25toZ28 exe to my Z25 folder, launched it, but it didn't pick that folder up.
XP SP3.

[Gudowski]

Scawen, maybe lets work on some kind of Launcher when user can check did ons erver is some new:

[] Stable Release/Update
[] Test Patch

when user can choose what he want to check did its updated :) and he will choose then which he want to download ;)

good or bad idea?

[Victor]

Nope.
I moved the Z25toZ28 exe to my Z25 folder, launched it, but it didn't pick that folder up.
XP SP3.

The reason : you renamed your LFS.exe to something else.

[Ripley]

The reason : you renamed your LFS.exe to something else.
DOH!
That's worth a FACEPALM!!
:D

[Zay]

Sorry guys, for jinxing this, but I have a really, really good feeling...

[Scawen]

Sorry guys, for jinxing this, but I have a really, really good feeling...I have a good feeling too. And that is - we'll soon have an installer.

But I really need to make it clear the physics has quite a way to go. Just in case that's what you were thinking. :)

[Flame CZE]

It's amazing how much bugs is discovered when you publish those patches, I can't imagine what it would be like, if there wasn't this public testing... good job! No bugs found.

[Heiko1]

Scavier! U 3 GUYS ROCK THE HOUSE!

No bugs found on this patch!

awesome work!

Good luck an a good night to ya Scawen and Victor! and to the rest of community!:nod:

[Ripley]

Yeah, I must also add my personal spam post to the good feelings in here.
I was thinking today at work, after closely watching all these test patches flowing in the last days, all the people here testing and helping, all this direct communication with the developers themselves...WOW!! That's the way it should be!!
Thanks LFS Team for all your hard relentless work!!

...Oh, yes...by the way...NO bugs found!

[Gudowski]

Scawen, maybe lets work on some kind of Launcher when user can check did ons erver is some new:

[] Stable Release/Update
[] Test Patch

when user can choose what he want to check did its updated :) and he will choose then which he want to download ;)

good or bad idea?

Check attachment :)

[Ger Roady]

Scawen, maybe lets work on some kind of Launcher when user can check did ons erver is some new:

[] Stable Release/Update
[] Test Patch

when user can choose what he want to check did its updated :) and he will choose then which he want to download ;)

good or bad idea?

There is something like that . It is called multiplayer connection list and test patch forum, so i don't see a need for this. My opinion. :shrug:

[BoyGTA]

Scawen, I just installed it, then I went to a server and I played some.. after that, I closed game, and after a while I wanted to play again, I joined server and game was so laggy :S

On Single player works great :S

[adamshl]

Scawen, I just installed it, then I went to a server and I played some.. after that, I closed game, and after a while I wanted to play again, I joined server and game was so laggy :S

On Single player works great :S

I suggests to check your Internet connection.

EDIT:
Alternatively, create a dedicated server locally, connect to it and check it, you'll have answer.

[Ger Roady]

I have a good feeling too. And that is - we'll soon have an installer.
Welcome :thumbsup: to the new developer :D

[pearcy_2k7]

I have a good feeling too. And that is - we'll soon have an installer.

But I really need to make it clear the physics has quite a way to go. Just in case that's what you were thinking. :)

I don't really understand how it can have quite a way to go, had like a year on it, released it to the beta testers who said it was an improvement, so it obviously works and if there were problems from their side you've had months to change it :shrug:

Sorry to go off-topic but it kinda sucks to be left in the dark about everything...

[DanielC]

I had a fresh Z26, then I installed the full Z27 over the top, everything worked fine.

I just installed the Z25 to Z28 patch over the top... and now when I click on a button I get :

Sound error (Play:B -2005139406)

[Flame CZE]

I don't really understand how it can have quite a way to go, had like a year on it, released it to the beta testers who said it was an improvement, so it obviously works and if there were problems from their side you've had months to change it :shrug:

Sorry to go off-topic but it kinda sucks to be left in the dark about everything...
He said there's still a bit more refinement to do :)

[Ger Roady]

Maybe it is allowed to post a old quote with one little correction. Otherwise please delete it. Should be sticky in my opinion :)
Simply, the criticisms of LFS development stated a few posts back are just wrong and displaying a lack of understanding, and failure to see the big picture. Or if you wish, you may interpret that as my failure to explain to you what I'm doing every step of the way. But seriously, my job is not to explain to you every step of LFS development and every plan I have for it, while they run through my head. My job is to get LFS done.

It was actually the two Vista compatibility issues (unlocking and sound) and the arrival of the G25 wheel that got me onto this series of test patches. It's very important, with more and more people getting Vista, and us receiving several technical support emails "I can't unlock on Vista" and so on, for LFS to work on Vista. Also we need that improved controller support to be readily available to new users. Also I've had enough of "How do I install a patch, I've downloaded it and LFS doesn't work any more" so I've been working on and nearly finished the auto updater. And that means, Patch V needs to go on the main site. And guess what - it should not go up there completely bug ridden and full of hundreds of small issues that have been waiting a long time to be fixed. But it should be compatible, I need to do some months of incompatible work, which I have outlined elsewhere and won't go into here. And there's no point delaying the compatible fixes, leaving the much poorer version U up there when we are so close to V.

The compatible fixes and improvements are totally necessary. The irritated commentators on this thread have no idea how much reworking and improving goes on inside the program while I'm on a roll. Also they don't understand how much simply MUST be done, outside the core physics, to keep the program on track. It does actually take more time than the core itself. If a great majority of the time was spent on the core alone, we would have a physically accurate, but totally unusable simulator that attracted no more than the absolute hardcore simmer. And we'd be poor and have to give up LFS and go and get a job! :D

This work NEEDS to be done. It's nothing different from any time in the past. A lot of compatible fixes, tested thoroughly by the community, followed by an apparently quiet period while we work on incompatible things which cannot be tested by the community because every day's test patch is incompatible, which would causing hotlap and online madness. And in that apparently quiet periiod there will be a new post each week "Where are the devs gone" and "They've taken our money and run" and "The devs owe it to us to write a detailed progress report each week" etc, etc... you know how it goes by now. :D

Anyway, I'm very happy with these improvements, I'm sort of embarassed now by version U and it's flaws and imcompatibilities, the visible things and the internal messes it contains that I have sorted out. I'm itching to get that version V up there but it needs the auto-updater finished (a couple more days work) and the new (minor) sound updates (a few more days work - still awaiting some longer work in the future). Nearly every one of these test patches has had some VITAL fixes, along with a few irritations fixed and some minor or major features. It really is not a bad thing for LFS, these compatible things that have been done, bringing us so much closer to a final S3 (<-correction) that can be released, when the other craved updates are completed.

It's a little sad the lack of trust displayed in those preceding posts. :( The belief that something has gone wrong inside our heads, that the developers who once knew how to develop, have changed mentally in some way, are hiding away in a hole, scared to develop anything but just scratching at the surface. It's quite a pathetic belief in fact, when the truth is Eric's there working on things that will improve LFS a lot amd I am working 10 hour days getting so much done, as fast as possible to get a stable version up there ready for the approaching silent period of core development.

It's going so well, and as described elsewhere our lives have been sorted out a lot this year helped by the S2 success, after neglecting ourselves for years, due to LFS development. It would be nice if the off topic commentators could just be happy about it and have some faith in the simple understanding that we developers who got it this far, and have devoted so much of our lives to this, probably want to take it to the next stage as well! :)

[aroX123]

It's amazing how much bugs is discovered when you publish those patches, I can't imagine what it would be like, if there wasn't this public testing... good job! No bugs found.
Bit of a "hint hint" person arent you :D

[DevilDare]

A bit off-topic regarding the "still quite a lot to do".

Well the way the development is going right now is fine by me. Not fast - but atleast we are getting responses from devs and it doesnt look like the whole thing is put on a halt. However, having said that, I would be very disappointed if the new "Big" patch wont be out by Christmas/End of this year.

I just really hope we wont have to see "Early 2010". :shrug:

Anyways. Z28 is all clean. No bugs as of yet.

[hotmail]

But I really need to make it clear the physics has quite a way to go. Just in case that's what you were thinking. :)

So no plans on a Xmas patch this year?:shy:

( I am only asking this because there are many people with the feeling or maybe hope for an Xmas patch:Looking_a)

[!RAM!]

Great work so far, but
I attempted to join a server and it either timed out or couldn't connect because other reason (I forgot) but I tried again and got in so its ok :)

[SpikeyMarcoD]

well it would be a dissapointment for me after scawen's announcement at beginning of year, it becoming a great lfs year. Well since i am no multiscreenuser i have had a ordinary lfs year then, certainly not a great one :(

But what cant be helped, cant be helped....carry on

[Scawen]

I don't really understand how it can have quite a way to go, had like a year on it, released it to the beta testers who said it was an improvement, so it obviously works and if there were problems from their side you've had months to change it :shrug:

Sorry to go off-topic but it kinda sucks to be left in the dark about everything...Well, programming new physics is really hard. The tyre model feels good and has a good mathematical basis. But as it's completely different, the tyre heating needs to be done differently too. It simply doesn't work any more like it did. Also things like that little puff of smoke that comes out from a hot piece of tyre each time it hits the road - that has no place in the new LFS physics. In fact, I recently added code that can emit smoke from all hot parts of a tyre (regardless of whether they are touching the road or not). It's quite nice and convincing in some situations but persists for too long in other situations and itself proves that the heating model is not yet right.

Also we are interested in implementing a limited setup system (for road cars - not just the VW) and have realistic setups for all the road cars. But these realistic setups have demonstrated something that is lacking in the suspension.

As with all things in development, one thing is leading to another, and when one thing leads to another, you should do "another". Or at least, that's how I choose to work. The current LFS is already quite balanced. To release something that has not reached the required standard, is not balanced, is clearly wrong (as a whole) and so on, would not do LFS any good at all. Real time simulation of the heating of tyres is not something I could complete in 3 days or a week. I did think I could, but in attempting it, and trying some different approaches, I found I could not. So all I can do is carry on, until the tyre heating is right, update the suspension as required, then implement the limited setup system which will allow you to drive road cars that feel like road cars. Rushing things out would make LFS worse for you, not better.

This is really just a short note, I think this would be better stated in a proper progress report. And that was the plan. But as you and maybe others can't wait, and it is the test patch itself that is causing you to be upset, I hope it was worth explaining the situation. As usual, there is a reason for everything, we have not lost our heads or anything like that.

[Ger Roady]

Maybe it is wise to put the whole thread to general discussion and create a new test patch thread ? :shrug:

[Byku]

...

Although it is offtopic... sorry... Scawen, it's great that You are implementing limited setup options, but remember those unlimited setup options in LFS were also it's strength. There is huge userbase which simply loves to play with LFS setups(just look at setup subforum). I might ask too much(and i will understand that) but... two "cards" of setup options would be nice, with possibility to enforce "basic" or "advance(with maybe even more setup options than now?)" setup on a particular server(Iracing style). I am personally such a person, who loves the possibilities in LFS setups(and how I can feel every change). Thanks to LFS i've learned a lot about differencials, supsension etc. Of course I accept every change You will make, but remember ;), You've made awesome physics engine... don't take from some of us the possibility to play with it ;).

With regards
Me :p.

[pearcy_2k7]

Thanks, was just hard to understand how you can do (what seemed like) new physics in a few months for the beta testers to use and then take just as long on refinements. You've made us understand the process a little more though (or maybe just me).

Just for the record im not upset, just somewhat frustrated at not knowing if the new physics are coming at christmas or into spring, especially doing league races you don't want to practice alot incase the physics change.

But i suppose this is just the way LFS is and ive enjoyed it more than any game ive ever bought, so you know what your doing :smileypul Just don't make us wait too long... :D

[Ger Roady]

. Also things like that little puff of smoke that comes out from a hot piece of tyre each time it hits the road - that has no place in the new LFS physics.

I think it is unrealistic at all. Never saw this smoke, except I was standing with both feets on the brake , in real Life ...or the tyre was burning :)

[The Very End]

Tested out the patch, no problems found so far, looking good :)

[ponczak]

Also we are interested in implementing a limited setup system (for road cars - not just the VW) and have realistic setups for all the road cars. But these realistic setups have demonstrated something that is lacking in the suspension.


That's nice, but please, remember of drifters and just try to give XRT, FZ5 and maybe XRG some settings helpful in drifting, like camber, parallel steer, toe, and of course - differential. That will be a big gift from you. :nod::thumb:


I have a little question also - now, when I have hot tires (I mean after the big burnout or few drifting laps) I have a lot of smoke on straights (without any sliding) - just because tires are hot. In new physics this isn't exist? Am I right?

[Flame CZE]

This is really just a short note, I think this would be better stated in a proper progress report. And that was the plan. But as you and maybe others can't wait, and it is the test patch itself that is causing you to be upset, I hope it was worth explaining the situation. As usual, there is a reason for everything, we have not lost our heads or anything like that.
I think you still should write a proper progress report to the main site, some people don't visit test patch forums often, so It would be great.

Anyway, great post from you, now it's all clear! :thumbsup:

[pako_customize]

is it possible in z30 contain new physics ? :schwitz:

[Shadowww]

is it possible in z30 contain new physics ? :schwitz:

Everything is possible.

:p

[Scawen]

Although it is offtopic... sorry... Scawen, it's great that You are implementing limited setup options, but remember those unlimited setup options in LFS were also it's strength. There is huge userbase which simply loves to play with LFS setups(just look at setup subforum). I might ask too much(and i will understand that) but... two "cards" of setup options would be nice, with possibility to enforce "basic" or "advance(with maybe even more setup options than now?)" setup on a particular server(Iracing style). I am personally such a person, who loves the possibilities in LFS setups(and how I can feel every change). Thanks to LFS i've learned a lot about differencials, supsension etc. Of course I accept every change You will make, but remember ;), You've made awesome physics engine... don't take from some of us the possibility to play with it ;).Yes, I know there are a lot of users that have used LFS for experimentation and learned something from the unlimited setups. And we will not take away that ability. The idea is that it will be a host option. Maybe the default will be limited setups and the option will be "Allow extreme setups" or maybe the other way round.

Anyway the important thing is there will be hosts you can join with limited setups. For most road cars that would be very limited (like : tyre pressure and toe). For LRF cars there would be some extra adjustments (like damping and anti-roll bars). Racing cars would allow a lot more adjustments. Other hosts would allow extreme setups. Possibly the extreme setups could one day go further than they do now.

That's nice, but please, remember of drifters and just try to give XRT, FZ5 and maybe XRG some settings helpful in drifting, like camber, parallel steer, toe, and of course - differential. That will be a big gift from you. :nod::thumb:Drifting hosts are one example where extreme setups will be allowed, I am sure.

I have a little question also - now, when I have hot tires (I mean after the big burnout or few drifting laps) I have a lot of smoke on straights (without any sliding) - just because tires are hot. In new physics this isn't exist? Am I right?You are pointing out an issue with tyre heating / cooling that exists in the old physics and is not yet cured in the new physics. I found it was impossible to change a few numbers and fix that - I need to improve the tyre surface and rubber heating model.

Another thing that affects progress is the AI drivers. I found out last week that they are unable to estimate the available grip correctly. Once again I found that a "quick fix" was inappropriate and would be a waste of time. I really need to do some reorganising of their code again, would be a few days work. Obviously many people would say, forget the AI drivers, they are no consequence. But from our point of view, the AI must be able to handle their physics and we cannot release LFS versions with that kind of problem. Many people don't use AI at all, but others do use them. That is an example of something unforeseen just popping up.

is it possible in z30 contain new physics ? :schwitz:
I have no idea what patch numbers will contain what updates in the future. The plan is to release Z28 today and then I get back to work on the physics.

[e.M]

by saying that ai cant handle new physics i believe that those physics will really change the they u drive and old setups will be useless :)

[aroX123]

Many people don't use AI at all, but others do use them

I use them quite alot, so very nice that you are going to improove them more, Good luck with that:nod:



and then I get back to work on the physics.
Great, good luck with that too, and have fun :shy:

[oldnavy]

btw just want to mention that now quick server join links works! nice work as always :)

[Azzano62]

i get these messages when i start lfs:

Error initialising : data\ogg\entry.ogg
OGG: Input does not appear to be an Ogg bitstream

[Ripley]

...Many people don't use AI at all, but others do use them...
AIs are the first "pilots" each LFSer meets, before going online.
Sometimes racing online can be intimidating, or plain difficult, to the newcomer, so every improvement towards getting more "real" AIs is welcome :thumb:

[Scawen]

i get these messages when i start lfs:

Error initialising : data\ogg\entry.ogg
OGG: Input does not appear to be an Ogg bitstreamSome questions :

1) Did you install the full version or the patch?
2) What do you see in your LFS\data\ogg folder?
3) What happens if you go to Options... Audio... Select and try to play one of the music tracks there? (see attachment)

[Azzano62]

I installed the patch and i went to options/audio/select and selected entry and then restarted lfs and it does not show any more thanks :)

[Amynue]

And we will not take away that ability.Thanks for making that clear. Whould be nice to see video showing new abilities of physics engine. Scirocco video was nice to watch. By the way I think "How to install Live for Speed" video should be removed to not mislead people as now we have a great installer.

[PioneerLv]

Well, totally agree with you Amynue.

[Gudowski]

thanks for making that clear. Whould be nice to see video showing new abilities of physics engine. Scirocco video was nice to watch. By the way i think "how to install live for speed" video should be removed to not mislead people as now we have a great installer.
+111111!!!!!!!1111111111 for sure :)

come'on Scavier - isnt hard to do one small video :)

[Dmt]

When you are on crowded server, shift+p and press ESC to enter the track it says
User does not have a car
Could not add car info - unknown id

But you can deal with the problem after physics release. :tilt:

[Amynue]

When you are on crowded server, shift+p and press ESC to enter the track it says
User does not have a car
Could not add car info - unknown idTried at "[AMG] GTR MotorSport" and I can confirm that :thumbsup:

But you can deal with the problem after physics release. :tilt:Yes, it's a minor bug :tilt:

[Ripley]

come'on Scavier - isnt hard to do one small video :)
C'mon, they don't have to also make a video, they have harder things to do! Just some user make and upload a video to YouTube and post the link here.

[OlivierMDVY]

All is working fine.. but what is the problem using the PROGRAM FILES folder under Vista or Seven?

[ponczak]

Drifting hosts are one example where extreme setups will be allowed, I am sure.


That's fantastic. By the way - is it possible to increase the max. lock of steering in cars used for drifting too? That will be big, awesome gift from you, especially, we will have new physics, so possibility to change max lock to 45* will be realistic (as in real drifting cars) and awesome:nod:
However, I'm pretty sure, that new patch will be smashing :D

[yaper]

You are pointing out an issue with tyre heating / cooling that exists in the old physics and is not yet cured in the new physics. I found it was impossible to change a few numbers and fix that - I need to improve the tyre surface and rubber heating model.

Scawen,

Some people already had interesting thoughts about problems with LFS tyres heating/cooling. Maybe if you do some research on below posts/threads, you can find something that can help with your work.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=5778

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1148554#post1148554 The whole thread is interesting but sometimes you need to skip the spam.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=769581#post769581 +next posts

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=819979#post819979

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1210219#post1210219

[Gegry1992]

ah new patch:really: i want s3

[kamkorPL]

That's fantastic. By the way - is it possible to increase the max. lock of steering in cars used for drifting too? That will be big, awesome gift from you, especially, we will have new physics, so possibility to change max lock to 45* will be realistic (as in real drifting cars) and awesome:nod:
However, I'm pretty sure, that new patch will be smashing :D

Fantastic news indeed. But if we are making limited setups and extreme then how about making it indeed extreme? :) Up to the drifting motorsport level.

2 typical mods in drifting that go together:

1) Tracking (that was in s1)
Example: http://www.iv.pl/images/14pj7ry5wf9jvni5s5u.jpg
2) Steering lock modification that often needs tracking modified as well (was in s1)
3) Caster (was in s1)

I hope the pictures will give an idea of what steering lock drift cars use, which is actually more than 45 (pictures speak more than words):

http://122.220.200.188/d1/gp/gp2009/gp0903/gp0903_image/0903t_ttop.jpg

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3995/pimg5337.jpg

http://doristars.com/v-web/gallery/albums/jdmqual1/DSC_6641_copy.sized.jpg

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5564/pimg0011.jpg

http://122.220.200.188/gp/gp2009/gp0907/gp0907_image/gp0907r_img02.jpg

http://122.220.200.188/gp/gp2009/gp0907/gp0907_image/0908t_timg2.jpg

http://122.220.200.188/gp/gp2009/gp0905/gp0905_image/gp0905r_2img.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1208/pimg0189.jpg

http://122.220.200.188/gp/gp2009/gp0907/gp0907_image/gp0907r_img01.jpg

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8721/pimg0141.jpg

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3083/pimg0320.jpg

http://images45.fotosik.pl/230/7cb984d862e5d051.jpg

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9984/20091029847.jpg

Could ofcourse post more pictures, but I think it's enough. :)

Anyway, interesting idea would be to not allow the setup to be saved if steering lock / caster / tracking settings are not right. For example if the wheel is scrubbing the body badly. That way it would take some compromise to get big steering lock + it wouldn't allow 3d wheel model going trough car body. Unless the tire/body scrub is modeled then there is no need for that. :)

[Matrixi]

But as it's completely different, the tyre heating needs to be done differently too. It simply doesn't work any more like it did. Also things like that little puff of smoke that comes out from a hot piece of tyre each time it hits the road - that has no place in the new LFS physics.

Possibly the extreme setups could one day go further than they do now.

Drifting hosts are one example where extreme setups will be allowed, I am sure.

:hyper: :thumb:

On topic, the patch is working without problems. As expected.

[Trekkerfahrer]

no problems here so far ;)

the installer makes LFS more comfortable i think, good work.

[Dmt]

...

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=14114&page=21

624 posts not enough for you? :tilt:

[obsolum]

Although it is offtopic... sorry... Scawen, it's great that You are implementing limited setup options, but remember those unlimited setup options in LFS were also it's strength. There is huge userbase which simply loves to play with LFS setups(just look at setup subforum). I might ask too much(and i will understand that) but... two "cards" of setup options would be nice, with possibility to enforce "basic" or "advance(with maybe even more setup options than now?)" setup on a particular server(Iracing style). I am personally such a person, who loves the possibilities in LFS setups(and how I can feel every change). Thanks to LFS i've learned a lot about differencials, supsension etc. Of course I accept every change You will make, but remember ;), You've made awesome physics engine... don't take from some of us the possibility to play with it ;).

With regards
Me :p.
IMO realistic setup options on all the road cars is an absolute necessity in LFS, and it's where it's lagging behind the most compared to other sims. The hugely unrealistic setup options we have now make it so that people can come up with the most ridiculous setups and be fast with them.

Realistic setup options would be a huge leap forward for LFS. And not as a host option, 'cause that will just shift the problem elsewhere. Sure there's gonna be loads and loads of people whining over this. Well bugger them. When has it ever been different whenever a big change was made? :shrug:

[Matrixi]

Realistic setup options would be a huge leap forward for LFS. And not as a host option, 'cause that will just shift the problem elsewhere. Sure there's gonna be loads and loads of people whining over this. Well bugger them.
No there won't, because "realistic setups" won't be forced for everyone like Scawen said.

If they would be forced, there'd be people leaving LFS. Guaranteed.

[rockclan]

Something tells me that Scawen is secretly working on Break-Off Damage.:D

But ofcourse even if he is, he would probably never tell us.:smileypul

[BOSCHO]

when i clicked join host it gives me an error (windows 7 ultimate 64 bit) Z28
the server list is with iframe from lfsworld on lfs-bg.net index page

[Bean0]

when i clicked join host it gives me an error (windows 7 ultimate 64 bit) Z28
the server list is with iframe from lfsworld on lfs-bg.net index page

It looks like an oversight by Vic, the links in the server status pages are still the Join2LFS format.

[Victor]

yeah i forgot that one. It's half updated now, as in the format's right, but i need to so some extra processing on them to make all hostnames work well. Will do soon.

[DevilDare]

Thanks for clearing it all up Scawen. :thumb:

[BOSCHO]

yeah i forgot that one. It's half updated now, as in the format's right, but i need to so some extra processing on them to make all hostnames work well. Will do soon.

Thanks, take your time to make it perfect :thumb:

[Furiously-Fast]

All this talk about the new patch has got me jumping for joy! With all this new programming I think 0.6A (or Z30) Is going to be one of the biggest steps forward since S1 to S2. And now that limited setups are going to be implented in the game, I can go into a race server without sucking so hard because I am using a default set. :D

And I also agree with Amynue about the preview vid. How about a 2 min vid comparing the new physics with the current ones?

[mihu86]

IMO realistic setup options on all the road cars is an absolute necessity in LFS, and it's where it's lagging behind the most compared to other sims. The hugely unrealistic setup options we have now make it so that people can come up with the most ridiculous setups and be fast with them.

Realistic setup options would be a huge leap forward for LFS. And not as a host option, 'cause that will just shift the problem elsewhere. Sure there's gonna be loads and loads of people whining over this. Well bugger them. When has it ever been different whenever a big change was made? :shrug:

I think it would be much better to upgrade the physics engine to such a high level, where you have to use realistic setup settings to be fast (even if you have "unlimited" setup options), and not to force racers to use realistic setups if they aren't good.

!!!This is especially true in the case of FWD cars!!! Now you have to set their front suspension very stiff, use locked diff (actually welded diff in real life, or "poor man's LSD" :)), and make the car turn with full throttle. This is very unrealistic (even if it's fun :)). So I think it's not a solution to limit the setup values, the physics have to be updated to handle this. (Limited setups are good, but for other purposes, e.g. to race with more equal conditions, and to give chance for those who don't like messing with setups, just want to race.)

I hope this is what Scawen is working on (at least partially).

[adamshl]

Yes, I know there are a lot of users that have used LFS for experimentation and learned something from the unlimited setups. And we will not take away that ability. The idea is that it will be a host option. Maybe the default will be limited setups and the option will be "Allow extreme setups" or maybe the other way round.

Host option seems to be a good solution, but what about statistics on LFSW? one of options will hurt other. Introduction of separate statistics for each of options don't sounds good. :(

[obsolum]

If they would be forced, there'd be people leaving LFS. Guaranteed.
You mean like there are people "leaving" LFS now because of the unrealistic setup options (and setups)? :smileypul Let them. It will undoubtly attract new users as well.

[Napalm Candy]

there are some bugs with the Nvidia 3D view.
From the outside is perfect but from the inside nvidia cant render the car correct.. i will give support for what you devs need to make the perfect render from the inside. The problem is that Nvidia renders the interior good but the place of the rendered image is placed more to the left and it can make a correct 3D object

I used this drivers too, and I don't have any problem to configure them. You need to adjust some parameters but can be succesfully. I don't see the point to LFS devs, so nVidia 3D drivers are what convert the 3D render in stereoscopic render.

[Scawen]

Thank you very much for the testing and comments!

As this has now gone public, I will close the test patch thread. :)