LFS installer package test

[Victor]

Hello all,

We've finally decided LFS should come packaged in a setup utility because of growing user-permission related problems in modern versions of Windows. Basically we don't want you to install LFS in Program Files as that will lead to problems.

I've prepared an installer but before we put it online for the public to download we thought we'd give it one final test on the test patch forum, just to make sure it works well on every computer configuration.

FILE UPDATED AGAIN
Please visit this post later in the thread for a test download : http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1310220#post1310220

For this test, do not overwrite your existing LFS folder. This setup file just contains the Z25 you already have so it's best you keep that one intact. The installer does install some file associations though which you might like (for spr, mpr, set and lyt files).
The installer will also add an uninstaller, which can be found in the LFS folder, Start Menu or Windows' Add/Remove Programs feature.

Points to watch
-no unexpected problems?
-does everything look ok?
-did it install what it said it would?
-do the installed shortcuts and associations work?

[aroX123]

Ill check rigth away DL'ing now :thumbsup:

[IlGuercio]

Downloading,expect some feedback soon:thumb:

[Shotglass]

will try it out but please for the love of god make it not do too much without asking permission first (eg file associations start menu shortcuts etc)
also id appreciate it if the usual zipped version remained at least as an optional method of installing lfs

[hda]

I waited till I installed so I could give proper feedback

Everything went ok during the install and the file associations/shortcuts are fine as well. Personally I would like the default folder to be something like "C:\Program Files (x86)\Live for Speed".

Probably the only thing that matters about my specs is the OS: Windows 7 Ultimate x64
(UAC disabled)

[IlGuercio]

Everything went well on my system.
Vista Business 64,the installer created everything it said and now i see those 4 files associated with LFS.

[NotAnIllusion]

Points to watch
-no unexpected problems?
-does everything look ok?
-did it install what it said it would?
-do the installed shortcuts and associations work?
- No unexpected problems at all.
- Looks fine, didn't spot any errors.
- Installed to correct folder, with correct folder structure. Everything, including user's own files (i.e. anything that didn't come with the package) and the root LFS folder were cleanly removed.
- All shortcuts and file associations worked, and were correctly removed.

Only thing I would suggest is changing the default installation path. Preferably:
- Users\Public or Users\<current user> for Vista and W7.
- Standard Program Files folder for XP-likes and below as there's no UAC nonsense to deal with.

[Victor]

- No unexpected problems at all.
- Looks fine, didn't spot any errors.
- Installed to correct folder, with correct folder structure. Everything, including user's own files (i.e. anything that didn't come with the package) and the root LFS folder were cleanly removed.
- All shortcuts and file associations worked, and were correctly removed.

Only thing I would suggest is changing the default installation path. Preferably:
- Users\Public or Users\<current user> for Vista and W7.
- Standard Program Files folder for XP-likes and below as there's no UAC nonsense to deal with.

I am curious though, do you know if many people are used to using their Users folder? (because I'm not (and I'm not the only one))

[DavidTiger]

Install Great, all shortcuts and associations work :D
Uninstalled without problems aswell
-Windows 7 32bit

I never use the 'users' folders.. Games, music etc all stored on the other HDD (saves reinstalling them after OS change/update)
I think its better to be stored in like "C:\Games" saves hastle over different folders on each OS etc..

[Bluebird B B]

"- Users\Public or Users\<current user> for Vista and W7."

Is not a good path!!
Just under program files or a separate folder on the disk. Not somewhere within the userprofiles. user-profiles are not intended to install software in!

[IlGuercio]

I am curious though, do you know if many people are used to using their Users folder? (because I'm not (and I'm not the only one))
Im not using that either:)

[Shadowww]

Works fine on Windows 7. Big thanks for no-shortcuts option! I hate when my start menu is bloated.

Shortcuts work, associations work, everything looks good, except default NSIS logo. No problems at all. Great work :nod:

P.S.: Installing into Users folder is much more logical than Program Files (x86).

P.P.S.: I personally created \Games\ folder and gave mine user full access to it with permission inherition. This way is best IMO.

[NotAnIllusion]

I am curious though, do you know if many people are used to using their Users folder? (because I'm not)
It's a fair point, I see why you'd say that and you're right, personally I don't install anything under users\myprofile. That said, all 3rd party applications I install under users\public, it's my new Program Files in effect. In fact, I know World of Warcraft's installer suggests that it's installed under Public. I would say that users\public is far more intuitive than c:\games, last time I used that path was under pure DOS :) I don't think it's a great idea to install stuff outside of Program Files, users\public or users\myprofile.

[DanielC]

Works fine in Windows Server 2008 SP2 64 Bit and Windows 7 Pro 64 Bit.

I don't like the "C:\Games\Live For Speed" as default though...
Uninstalling doesn't remove the Games folder, just the lfs one...

It should be program "C:\Program Files (x86)\Live for Speed" like the others said.

Also, the manual shortcut has no icon?

All the same, nice to see LFS finally having an installer! :thumb:

[ORION]

I am curious though, do you know if many people are used to using their Users folder? (because I'm not (and I'm not the only one))

I agree, i dont use those windows default folders at all, actually i have never really used any folders on C except for the desktop :)
And in Win7 the first thing i did was sending the library feature to hell... just nonsense if you ask me, because it is not capable of dealing with a real amount of data. Like 20 svn repositories with 40k files and 5GB each. I guess those default data management suggestions are for home users who have a few hundred pictures, not a couple TBs of version controlled data and backups etc.

Im still waiting for the 'Windows for power users and developers' edition... :shrug:

[MudPuppy]

I waited till I installed so I could give proper feedback

Everything went ok during the install and the file associations/shortcuts are fine as well. Personally I would like that the default folder for LFS would be something like "C:\Program Files (x86)\Live for Speed".

Probably the only thing that matters about my specs is the OS: Windows 7 Ultimate x64

+1

It's a new millennium, and a new century, and we are nearing the end of the first decade there of. How about entering into the spirit of things and set about getting it right for this new upcoming version?

Surely LFS is mature enough to start behaving in a mature fashion?

I'd appreciate that more than any new car, track or physics.

[Shadowww]

It should be program "C:\Program Files (x86)\Live for Speed" like the others said.No it should not unless LFS will store all it's data (configs, setups, etc) in %APPDATA% which would be very hard to use. UAC is there for reason you know.

[Victor]

It's a fair point, I see why you'd say that and you're right, personally I don't install anything under users\myprofile. That said, all 3rd party applications I install under users\public, it's my new Program Files in effect. In fact, I know World of Warcraft's installer suggests that it's installed under Public. I would say that users\public is far more intuitive than c:\games, last time I used that path was under pure DOS :) I don't think it's a great idea to install stuff outside of Program Files, users\public or users\myprofile.

haha, yeah I think that's part of 'the problem'. I grew up with DOS, so it's what i know :) And I think many people think the same. Windows never really made clear (to me) how it should be used in the area of structuring.

Anyway, my Users/Public folder is quite empty except for the default subfolders Windows creates (video, music, etc) so I'll not go for that one. But I see many apps in Users/<user>/AppData/Local . Hmm, I guess that location would make an LFS install user specific? Would be good for those who share their computers...
I can add a LFS/data folder shortcut in the Start Menu folder so it's easy to spot for people who wonder where their LFS folder is.

[franky500]

Windows 7 64bit here installed no problems what so ever.

Although i run an Administrative account so its not likely to cause me problems anyway...

I agree that im used to apps being installed in the program files x86 folder, but then again on almost everything i install i change that path to a completely different hard driver / folder so i can keep the windows drive relatively clean.... that being said no matter where the actual app is installed.. like victor im used to things being in APPDATA or mydocs for the savegames / user files / configs etc..

[DanielC]

No it should not
It's not a problem for anything else, I don't see why it should be for LFS...

UAC is usually more of a pain in the arse that it's worth anyway.

It's the first thing that gets desactivated on my PC's ... :shrug:

[Scawen]

It's a new millennium, and a new century, and we are nearing the end of the first decade there of. How about entering into the spirit of things and set about getting it right for this new upcoming version?

Surely LFS is mature enough to start behaving in a mature fashion?Thanks for the suggestion but you forgot to explain the problem. :shrug:

[MudPuppy]

But I see many apps in Users/<user>/AppData/Local . Hmm, I guess that location would make an LFS install user specific? Would be good for those who share their computers...


NOW you're getting it! :thumb:

[NotAnIllusion]

My AppData folder is hidden by default, it doesn't appear to be a user selectable install location to me.

[MudPuppy]

Thanks for the suggestion but you forgot to explain the problem. :shrug:

Love them or hate them MS has made it's best shot at moving forward, and not before it was long overdue in my view. They got styles they'd like devs to follow, they can tell you more than I could about that.

But I say why not give it a shot at doing it right? Could it really hurt so bad? Answer, no, but it could be uncomfortable settling in at first.

So, a little adjustment pain now is going to be worth so much smooth later.

Never thought I'd ever hear myself say it, but MS is at last starting to make a bit of sense here and there. (lord, did saying that feel strange:tilt:)

[Victor]

My AppData folder is hidden by default, it doesn't appear to be a user selectable install location to me.

that's true it's hidden by default (i always unhide my files), but then we're back at square one. If we shouldn't use the Users\ folder, and not the Program Files folder, that leaves C:\Games :)

[Tim NL]

Hi,

I have installed , tested all links and uninstalled LFS.
I have found no problems. Everything works fine here.:)

It looks good and and i love the link to the LFS Wiki site ( very useful for new drivers ).:thumb:
Maybe you can also add the links to LFSForum and LFSWorld sites to the start menu.

I have tested it under Windows 7 Ultimate 32bit

[wheel4hummer]

Some text isn't visible on my computer, it just shows up as black boxes. Windows XP x64
http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=96014&stc=1&d=1258224528

[franky500]

Update - The uninstaller removes all of the files and links as expected, but seems to leave the directory folder.

EG: Everything installed in D:\Games\LFS everything within that folder is removed.. but the folder itself remains.

I find alot of games tend to leave that folder and im guessing its a limitation in being able to distinguish how close to the root path the files can be removed from to prevent accidental deletion of the entire Games directory for example.. but thought i would mention it anyway.

[Victor]

Some text isn't visible on my computer, it just shows up as black boxes. Windows XP x64
http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=96014&stc=1&d=1258224528

can you run the attached test install exe and tell me what the popup window says? It should state the name of your OS. You can cancel once you've seen that msg.

EDIT - nevermind, i've fixed it

[NotAnIllusion]

that's true it's hidden by default (i always unhide my files), but then we're back at square one. If we shouldn't use the Users\ folder, and not the Program Files folder, that leaves C:\Games :)
The final word is of course yours :) I just don't see the downside of users\public\games\ (where WoW wants to install by default). The reason I'd dislike installing under root\games is that to me anything outside of "Program Files" and "Users" should really be a system file, not a random 3rd party program.

The other alternative could be installing core LFS files to Program Files\LFS, and like many other games, have all user files in the user's profile folder (Documents\LFS). More stuff in the registry, yay :razz:

[ORION]

I thought the AppData folder is used for data that is used like temp files, but which should not be deleted... like user specific plugins or chat histories or config files etc. At least it is not a path where programs are installed, so this should not be done imo.
Btw, there is a special games folder/tool in Vista an Win7. I dont use it, so if anyone knows how to add a program to that, this might be helpful. (I hope its not required that a game must be certified as a "Games for Windows" title to make this work)

But generall,y software is supposed to be installed to the Program Files or Program Files (x86) directory.

And because this sucks, I install all software only to D:\Programs :)

[Shadowww]

It's the first thing that gets desactivated on my PC's ... :shrug:... and then people wonder why they should spend a lot of money on antiviruses or having a nice spy party in their PC's. meh.I thought the AppData folder is used for data that is used like temp files, but which should not be deleted... like user specific plugins or chat histories or config files etc. At least it is not a path where programs are installed, so this should not be done imo.Well Google installs all it's progs (e.g. Earth, Chrome, Picasa etc) there. + All Microsoft .NET ClickOnce-technology installed apps are going there too.

[ORION]

Well Google installs all it's progs (e.g. Earth, Chrome, Picasa etc) there. + All Microsoft .NET ClickOnce-technology installed apps are going there too.
Really? Thats quite interesting. But I dont quite understand the reason behind this yet. Or is that indeed the only (or best) way to install software only for certain users?

[hotmail]

First off all , What a perfect timing. Just got my Win 7, 64-bit dvd today, so installed it on a plain machine ( what just had all the drivers on it ) ( the latest drivers)

I download it , and i installed it and it workt great. at least its starting up and i drove 3 laps with my mouse. but it seems to work with no problem at all.


And i do agree that its time to get a installer. till now I allways had lfs on my destop in a folder. but its time too give that a Change :nod:.


Conclusion: So far So good

(OS: Win 7 64-bit, Q9550, Ati 4890 1gb, 4gb memory, bla bla bla:tilt:)

[shiny_red_cobra]

Worked fine for me on Windows XP. Installed, ran it, did a few laps, then uninstalled it. Everything went without a hitch.

I like the idea of an installer, but are you devs planning to eliminate the zip files altogether?

[NotAnIllusion]

The info for the Vista/W7(?) Games folder is at HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Gam eUX\Games, more here http://blog.hexagonstar.com/vistatweak6/ Can't say I've ever used it though :p It doesn't appear to have any Games for Windows cert requirements.

[J.B.]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who still hasn't understood the concept of program files, registry, users, app data etc.

What is it for and how is supposed to be used (serious question)?

From my point of view the Windows structure is just creating a huge mess for benefits that are not obvious to me. Do viruses and spyware really fail because they are not allowed to write to program files? Are there really so many private users that share their computers to the extent that it's worth splitting program files and user files (whatever between those is anyway)? For HD space?

And it also seems to be that the program files are more protected in terms of permissions than the user files, although obviously user files are far more valuable to users as they are not easily replacable.

Sorry for OT but I thought this might be a chance to find out what exactly is going on with the way Windows is structured.

Installer worked fine for me BTW.

[LiveForBoobs]

I have my LFS installed on C:\LFS, it works perfectly fine and it's easy for me to access to.

As for the installer, i'm very happy with it, it worked 100% OK.

[ATHome]

Works like it should :thumb:

[Shadowww]

Do viruses and spyware really fail because they are not allowed to write to program files?Yes unless you have disabled UAC or run virus as admin (which is stupid).

[rc10racer]

Update - The uninstaller removes all of the files and links as expected, but seems to leave the directory folder.

It worked for me, there is an option to delete the main lfs folder in the uninstaller.

[Flame CZE]

Everything works fine :thumb: However, there are still old installation instructions in the readme file and there's a link to www.lfswiki.net, which has been replaced by www.lfsmanual.net :)

[Victor]

It worked for me, there is an option to delete the main lfs folder in the uninstaller.

no he means the Games folder. It's a bit difficult to remove that one automatically. I don't have a lot of functions that let me figure out what parent folder(s) Live for Speed was installed in.

[mobiholik]

easy and quick instal, no problems at all
windows 7 32 bit (86x)
great work Victor

[Victor]

Everything works fine :thumb: However, there are still old installation instructions in the readme file and there's a link to www.lfswiki.net, which has been replaced by www.lfsmanual.net :)

good one!

[SpikeyMarcoD]

Can i still install with it to program files?

I dont have any issues and my current install is there. Usally all applications have their files their although most other sims (nkpro/iracing) use user/documents for configuration, settings, setups etc.

[Napalm Candy]

I don't know if it is normal but... I installed, all without problems, but when I double-click on a SPR or MPR file (with or without LFS opened) appears a window saying "Error copying file"

I'm on W7 32bit

EDIT: With that window openen the uninstall don't run OK, so it unistall LFS and don't show any error, but don't remove LFS.exe and Live For Speed folder (neither Games folder)

I suggest the unnistall first close all LFS programs or ask to close it

[NotAnIllusion]

I don't know if it is normal but... I installed, all without problems, but when I double-click on a SPR or MPR file (with or without LFS opened) appears a window saying "Error copying file"

I'm on W7 32bit

EDIT: With that window openen the uninstall don't run OK, so it unistall LFS and don't show any error, but don't remove LFS.exe and Live For Speed folder (neither Games folder)

I suggest the unnistall first close all LFS programs or ask to close it
Where did you install it to?

[franky500]

no he means the Games folder. It's a bit difficult to remove that one automatically. I don't have a lot of functions that let me figure out what parent folder(s) Live for Speed was installed in.

Its not an issue to me whatsoever and i doubt it will be a big issue to anybody.. but as its a test i thought i might mention it.

[arco]

The program itself can go into Program Files, but userdata should not. In Vista and 7 the Program Files directory is protected from writing new files in it. I.e. if you install LFS there, and then go about to copy setups, replays etc to the LFS data folder, you will get permission denied.

[Shotglass]

installs works and uninstalls just fine on windows xp x64
was using an admin account might try in a bit with a user account

i still think the shortcut and file associations should be left unchecked by default

like victor im used to things being in APPDATA or mydocs for the savegames / user files / configs etc..

which imho is a horrible locations
its cryptic
its a complete mess
its spaced out across several app data folders all of which often contain important data
and worst of all its a hidden folder

im all for the self contained application folder paradigm
while it pains me to say this apple has done it perfectly with apps completely self contained in a single dmg file that can be deleted and thus uninstalled or installed extremely easily
while windows doesnt provide that sort of functionality a self contained folder is at least the closest thing to it

i run all of my apps that generate data thats worth keeping in self contained mode (at least the ones that allow me to eg miranda)

Update - The uninstaller removes all of the files and links as expected, but seems to leave the directory folder.

mine got deleted just fine
more so it got deleted while i still had it open (started the uninstaller from the folder)
which confused explorer quite a bit

And it also seems to be that the program files are more protected in terms of permissions than the user files, although obviously user files are far more valuable to users as they are not easily replacable.

its the good old unix way of thinking which might work if it were put into place a bit more consistently (and if it werent a almost 40 year old way of thinking that imho is past its time in many ways)

the reason why user files arent as protected is simply because those are the files you want to work on
noone wants to type in an admin password just to delete or modify his own files
programs however should only be installed and modified by the operators in a multiuser system
trouble is the whole idea makes no sense whatsoever in a home computer desktop environment which is why eg ubuntu doesnt have the root account enabled by default

[Velociround]

I have all of my games (all of them) installed on D:\Games (basically, root\Games). I think it's the best place to put it, so it won't have problems with UAC and, for me, it makes a nice division between Programs, User files and Games, which is why I have structured my files that way. All of my programs go to Program Files, user files goes to either windows users' folders or several other folders I've made on the HDD for that purpose, and games are only installed on the Games folder. Also, I've put my LFS in that folder already, but since it doesn't have a proper installer I've made my own structure of files with several versions of LFS inside the D:\Games\Live for Speed folder.

Just tried the installer, it works well, I have no problems with it, but I have a suggestion. Try using that Windows Vista/7 feature of the "Games" (Games Explorer) link on Start > Games
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/27231-games-explorer-shortcut-create.html
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/25787-games-explorer-folder-add-games.html

Edit: Oh I forgot to mention, running Windows 7 RC Ultimate 32bits
But I've also tried and it works well on Windows XP Professional 32bits

[Napalm Candy]

Where did you install it to?

To default folder C:\Games\Live For Speed

[Jakg]

Please *please* keep the old ZIP download in place as well - I dont use UAC and like the fact everything for LFS, is in the LFS folder.

I HATE the fact that for some odd and entirely unknown reason, everything puts all it's shit in "My Documents". Visio, for example, only lets you put saved stencils there. WTH!

[hotmail]

Please *please* keep the old ZIP download in place as well - I dont use UAC and like the fact everything for LFS, is in the LFS folder.

I HATE the fact that for some odd and entirely unknown reason, everything puts all it's shit in "My Documents". Visio, for example, only lets you put saved stencils there. WTH!
i bet you havent used the installer yet...:x

[KanseiDneova]

I get this on Windows XP SP2 64 bit. Other than that, install went well and game works :) Also tried the file you attached Victor and says "XP x64"

[Shadowww]

The program itself can go into Program Files, but userdata should not. In Vista and 7 the Program Files directory is protected from writing new files in it. I.e. if you install LFS there, and then go about to copy setups, replays etc to the LFS data folder, you will get permission denied.Well 90% of LFS is userdata (I bet nobody here has all stock dds files etc).

The 9% are vob's and unmodificable files.

The 1% is LFS.exe.

[NotAnIllusion]

Well 90% of LFS is userdata (I bet nobody here has all stock dds files etc)
Hi.

[BOSCHO]

no problems with Windows 7 Ultimate :thumb:

[Victor]

Just tried the installer, it works well, I have no problems with it, but I have a suggestion. Try using that Windows Vista/7 feature of the "Games" (Games Explorer) link on Start > Games
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/27231-games-explorer-shortcut-create.html
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/25787-games-explorer-folder-add-games.html

Yeah I had a look at that, but it requires LFS to have some additional resource files. So at this point it's not really possible.

Can i still install with it to program files?

sure you can install it anywhere you want.

[Krane]

Win7 x64

dbl click installer exe (using an administrator account)
LFS install default settings (desktop&menu icons + associations)
Installed to d:\games\live for speed
(Clicked computer->d:\ it chose d:\live for speed, changed the string to d:\games\live for speed)

Notes, installer did not install LFS icon to the games section in Win7. Nor can it be seen in control panel-uninstall program.


First start, no probs, setup wheel drove abit, saved a replay.
Exit (with exit buttons etc)
Browse to d:\games\live for speed\data\spr dbl click the replay file-> windows can't open file. To open this file, Windows needs to know blabla
Regedit says HKCR\.spr is not set
HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Exp lorer\FileExts\.spr is set, but it's empty, probably it's set because I just clicked a .spr file.

Looking at the Process Monitor log which I had running at the time of the install, I see that each file association related registry operation and

uninstall info is result:ACCESS DENIED (see attachment)
I guess if one keeps the set file association check-boxes checked, you need to elevate the installer privileges in the installer script.

Redo;
manually empty LFS dir.

Pretty much the same as above, but I start the installer with right click run as administrator

No LFS in W7 games, but it's in control panel-uninstall

dbl click spr-> lfs starts, music starts playing as in the 1st start demo replay even though I disabled all music (sorry vic, put feel the silence in

there and I'll keep it on) WTH? mouseclickspabecarmouseclicspabecar where's the replay? Close LFS, again dbl click spr, LFS starts, music starts blaring

and I wait.... instead of the demo spr, my spr starts, d'oh.

disabled load track at startup, dbl clicking spr starts a proper replay playback

I placed my priceless heirlooms to d:\games\live for speed and uninstalled LFS with control panel-uninstall.. it deleted my heirlooms because I had

delete Live for speed directory check-box checked... my fault


I moved d:\games\Live for speed to d:\Live for speed, started d:\live for speed\lfs.exe played abit, quit. Browsed to d:\live for speed\data\spr dbl

click spr, choose the program you want to use blablabla LFS not in the list.
If spr/set/lyt association is set, and upon starting lfs it's not in the same place it used to be, it should update those associations in the registry

to current location. How about: TODO (reallylow) ?


Tried the hose C:\ uninstall bug, it won't install to any root drive :thumb:



Sorry about the unreadability, those are notes on the run, not a well thought out report, which I'm not in a state to do ATM...

[Victor]

I don't know if it is normal but... I installed, all without problems, but when I double-click on a SPR or MPR file (with or without LFS opened) appears a window saying "Error copying file"

I'm on W7 32bit

EDIT: With that window openen the uninstall don't run OK, so it unistall LFS and don't show any error, but don't remove LFS.exe and Live For Speed folder (neither Games folder)

I suggest the unnistall first close all LFS programs or ask to close it

I think you got the error because you need to have manually started LFS at least once before the associations work. LFS is then initialised and will then copy / run the spr.
I'm guessing you may have been running another instance of LFS, perhaps your original one.

Otherwise I've no explanation for the error atm.

[Krane]

Well 90% of LFS is userdata (I bet nobody here has all stock dds files etc).

The 9% are vob's and unmodificable files.

The 1% is LFS.exe.

What usually is considered userdata is only the .ply file (LFS handles the multiuser there), .sets, .cols/personal helmet/car skins (not skins_x), and the .con etc.

If one has custom DDS files and other customizations, those don't count as userdata in the traditional sense.

You also need to take into account that some of the appdata directories will be roamed to servers and each PCs the user logs on to in corporate environments, so choose the directory carefully.

[Ger Roady]

XP 32 bit , without any problems :thumbsup:

[Starbert]

Please, please, please keep it the old way it was. It's the easiest way to put the game on your PC and also the easiest way to back it up. I just copy the whole directory to my USB-stick and i have a backup. I copy it to another PC and play on from there. I don't see any benefit in using an install.exe or a setup.exe. It makes it unnecessarily complicated.

I was glad LFS had no install/setup program. Totally unnecessary to have it.

[IlGuercio]

I think you got the error because you need to have manually started LFS at least once before the associations work. LFS is then initialised and will then copy / run the spr.
I'm guessing you may have been running another instance of LFS, perhaps your original one.

Otherwise I've no explanation for the error atm.
Same happened to me,once you started LFS at least once it works.
But,is the replay supposed to play itself when you click on it?
If i click on it the only thing i see is LFS opening.

[Krane]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who still hasn't understood the concept of program files, registry, users, app data etc.

What is it for and how is supposed to be used (serious question)?
My opinion:
Program Files: Program files, duh
Registry: where a program resides, where you can find the settings file for X
Users: Personal files (recipes etc), personal programdata (not what the user needs, but the programs user uses)
appdata: local personal tmp files


Reality:
mess



Things were much easier in the DOS age... Today you need 9 kinds of IT degrees to copy a program and its data from one PC to another PC, if it's even possible.




..
You can reproduce the old behaviour if you have 7zip/WinRAR etc and right click on the setup exe and click extract to whatever directory name it suggests. ed. whoops, it's not so easy, it also needs some manual fiddling...

Also it's not totally unnecessary, there's lots of ppl who don't know what a zip is or what to do when a dialog prompts to replace an existing older version of the same file. Or how they can start LFS if they manage to extract it.

[Rotareneg]

Installed fine, ran fine, uninstalled fine, XP 32bit SP3. It did leave the "Games" folder behind after uninstalling.

Also, from my experience Linux isn't much better with all its over-abbreviated and obfuscated directory names. It all makes me long back longingly to my old Amiga 1200 which had a file system structure that actually made sense.

[Victor]

Win7 x64

dbl click installer exe (using an administrator account)
LFS install default settings (desktop&menu icons + associations)
Installed to d:\games\live for speed
(Clicked computer->d:\ it chose d:\live for speed, changed the string to d:\games\live for speed)

Notes, installer did not install LFS icon to the games section in Win7. Nor can it be seen in control panel-uninstall program.

ah, yes it should already be raising the level to admin, but a bug caused win7 not to do that. Should work now.

I've attached a new small installer that contains a number of fixes (basically the direct problems, for example black checkbox-text background), added LFS icon to installer exe, updated readme.txt and some other small stuff.
Mind you this is just a test exe that only installs LFS.exe and README.txt . It does do the selected shortcuts and other installation related instructions.

Default install path is still the same. Still thinking it over.

EDIT - removed the attachment. All fixes are now in the main test download as linked to in the OP

[hotmail]

It did leave the "Games" folder behind after uninstalling.

i hope you dont mind me comparing this to NKpro,
NKpro Use C:\Nkpro_versionname

This is because when you unstall it, it doent leave a folder behind...

(i just took nkpro as a example, dont get me wrong)

[Victor]

Same happened to me,once you started LFS at least once it works.
But,is the replay supposed to play itself when you click on it?
If i click on it the only thing i see is LFS opening.

You also need to unlock (no matter if you're demo or licensed). Then LFS will load the replay and play it automatically.

i hope you dont mind me comparing this to NKpro,
NKpro Use C:\Nkpro_versionname

This is because when you unstall it, it doent leave a folder behind...

(i just took nkpro as a example, dont get me wrong)

actually we're considering going with that.

[Flame CZE]

Now, with the new installer test above, it doesn't install anything, just icons folder and the installer files, either if I leave the default install location, nor if I choose my location.

[Victor]

Now it doesn't install anything, just icons folder and the installer files, either if I leave the default install location, nor if I choose my location.

it's a 2mb file, what do you expect it would install? :D

[Flame CZE]

it's a 2mb file, what do you expect it would install? :D
Oh, damn :x I should go to bed :) Sorry

[DanielC]

actually we're considering going with that.
What happens if you want to install multiple versions then?

In terms of shortcuts, file associations, etc...

Install Z25a to C:\lfs_z25a ... start menu / shortcut is Live For Speed ... ?
Install Z25b to C:\lfs_z25b ... start menu / shortcut is Live For Speed ... ?

[Shadowww]

i hope you dont mind me comparing this to NKpro,
NKpro Use C:\Nkpro_versionname

This is because when you unstall it, it doent leave a folder behind...

(i just took nkpro as a example, dont get me wrong)Well if you install NKpro on blank partition (which has nothing but X:\Nkpro_versionname) it won't delete partition, will it? :shy:

Btw Victor, go give yourself infraction for double-posting. :p

[nesrulz]

Work fine here (Windows 7 x64). :thumb:

btw, Victor, can you add this:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5942/65736864.png

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7498/21931203.png

[IlGuercio]

You also need to unlock (no matter if you're demo or licensed). Then LFS will load the replay and play it automatically.
I didn't unlock THAT install because i was just trying it.Now it's clear.
:thumb:
For what is worth,i agree with having a C:\LFS default folder ;)
A "Games" folder isn't worth it.

[GeForz]

Can't you just leave the default path empty?
Or make it "$currentFolder\Live for Speed"... ;)


My games are all on the S: partition (S for Spiele, the german translation of games) :)

[nesrulz]

Default path ("C:\Games\Live for Speed") is OK for me...

Yes, you can add LFS version (S2/S3) in folder name...

[Starbert]

My opinion:
Also it's not totally unnecessary, there's lots of ppl who don't know what a zip is or what to do when a dialog prompts to replace an existing older version of the same file. Or how they can start LFS if they manage to extract it.

I don't know how big the userbase of LFS is, but they all got it right and working. No need for a setup-package.

Question: does the installer now also put entries in the registry of windows? If not then you could still easily copy your install.

[BoyGTA]

I installed it too. Worked great here. Win7 Ultimate x64.

Nice you used Nsis.

Just one thing, please, change icon on it :P

[Krane]

I don't know how big the userbase of LFS is, but they all got it right and working. No need for a setup-package.I don't know but, Vic and one lovely brunette whose name escapes me could answer how much problems users have installing LFS, I'd guess only 10% or so of those having problems even manage to find LFSForum.

Question: does the installer now also put entries in the registry of windows? If not then you could still easily copy your install.It will if you keep the settings default. Also, entries in the registry is one thing, program function is another. As LFS was made without any thought for registry (Yay!) all this newfanglesetups is only extra for those who don't know better. Yes, there's also "cruft" for your registry but you disable those settings if you care don't you?

This new installer won't affect anyway the old behavior (99% sure, haven't noticed any changes in LFS.exe behaviour) so you can copy LFS dir all you want if you can keep track of the shortcuts and locations etc.

[three_jump]

I was just using the smaller version, but it didn't create any startmenu entry for me nor did it create a desktop shortcut.

Running w7 64bit.

EDIT:
I guess you are also making the setup language selectable in the later versions?

EDIT2:
I was wrong, it did create the menu entry and shortcut in my Administrator account (I'm running a restricted user). Would be nice if that was selectable too.
Like: Install for everyone / just me (username)

[morpha]

I hope you'll continue to provide a simple self-extracting 7z.

As for the structure discussion: Windows provides one single (or two on x64, one for 32 bit and one for 64 bit bins) directory for executables, that's Program Files. Executables are not supposed to be in any other Windows-created directory, including users with all its subdirs. Those are for data, not executables. My :twocents:

Personally I store my games on a separate physical drive for maximum performance, which is particularly noticeable when loading textures and other large files into RAM. My temp and pagefiles are also distributed among several physical drives, leaving C: solely as storage, not as swap/scratch disk.

[Stuff]

Happy to report that it mostly works in Ubuntu 9.10 with Wine 1.1.33 :)

I chose all default options. It put it into "C:\Games\Live for Speed", really /home/rayok/.wine/drive_c/Games/Live for Speed and that works fine.

It created 2 shortcuts on the desktop. A windows .lnk that doesn't work and a .desktop one that does, neither of which have the icon set correctly. Looking at the .desktop contents, it refers to the correct icon file, it just doesn't display correctly probably because of naming. The shortcuts it created in the menu are fine however so if you just copy those to the desktop/panel you'll be ok. I guess some of the shortcut problems are due to Wine creating the .desktop from the .lnk.

The file associations almost worked too. The icons display correctly in nautilus except when executed a windows dialog just says "File not found" and exits. I think this is also due to Wine too because the registry entry is correct "C:\Games\Live for Speed\LFS.exe "%1"" and wine should map C:\ to /home/rayok/.wine/drive_c but does not. I haven't tried to fix this one..

Before when creating a shortcut to LFS.exe I would always have to make sure the relative "working directory" is correctly set before launching otherwise nothing is found. A small cd command in a .sh file was all it took to fix that however. Overall, nice installer! :thumbsup: Just a few problems due to Wine I think but nothing you can do about those.

[Fire_optikz001]

ok well 1 thing u dont want it to delete C:/Games that could possibly cause it to delete other games if they are located in C:/Games

[Victor]

I've updated the installer file linked to in the OP.
That I think is the final one.

[KanseiDneova]

I've updated the installer file linked to in the OP.
That I think is the final one.

cool, shortcuts and file associations are visible now

[emreerokyar]

There are two spaces after the dots in the License Agreement. I would place only one after each. :razz:

Edit:

There is also AN grammer mistake at the last page of the installer if you look at the text just above Finish button.

[Shadowww]

I don't know but, Vic and one lovely brunette whose name escapes me could answer how much problems users have installing LFS, I'd guess only 10% or so of those having problems even manage to find LFSForum.It's http://www.lfsforum.net/images/flagpics_tiny/United%20Kingdom.gif Geraldine (http://www.lfsforum.net/member.php?u=600) ;)

[Scawen]

There are two spaces after the dots in the License Agreement. I would place only one after each. :razz:

Edit:

There is also AN grammer mistake at the last page of the installer if you look at the text just above Finish button.It is quite standard to use two spaces afer a full stop. It seems there is a lot to say about that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_spacing_at_the_end_of_sentences

To write "an LFS account" is quite correct. L is a consonant, sure, but when you say "L" it sounds like "ell" and it's not easy to say "a ell" and that's why you really would say "an ell".

The "an" before a vowel is all about making it easy to speak. There are just a few ridiculous usages, for example the BBC in this country seems to force their newsreaders to say "an historic event" although they pronounce the h. Why, because there's a similar French word where they don't pronounce the h. Makes no sense. Only people who don't pronounce the h should say an - for example "an 'istoric". But BBC newsreaders DO pronounce the h. So it should be "a historic event".

Back on topic :

The latest version of the installer seems great to me, I like how the default folder is now C:\LFS :thumbsup:

I realise there are reasons behind the new Windows structure and all that. Personally I have no idea what it's all about and I must admit that I am not inspired to move past XP at this point while there are so many issues with Vista. I just want a computer that lets me do what I want to do so I'll stick with XP until that user stuff settles down a bit. Maybe MS should slow down a bit, keep things in testing for longer and not rush things out for deadlines. Then they wouldn't release OS's that annoy people. Some people who did buy Vista are annoyed at the thought of buying Windows 7 just to fix the problems that they paid for already in Vista. With so many different versions of Windows doing different things, I support Victor's conclusion that it's better to just keep it simple.

[senn]

So very true Scawen (about MS slowing down, developing properly etc)

[Jadran]

Worked great here. Win7 Ultimate :thumb:

[majod]

worked fine, but i have question about file assosiating - does it really make sense to make .SET files working with only LFS? what it will exactly do when ill try to run it?

[NotAnIllusion]

Is there another (commonly used) program that would need .set association? I can't think of any.

what it will exactly do when ill try to run it?
Double-click a .set file and find out :p It copies the setup from any folder to your actual setup folder. It's especially handy if you frequently download setups (to some other download folder).

[GeForz]

Of course there are other programs using the same extensions... That's why it should be optional ;)
But the only crucial should be mpr...

Detailed information for file extension SPR:
Primary association: Brother Powernote
Identifying characters Hex [Position 1]: 85 01
Related links: Brother Powernote Conversion Program
Other applications associated with file type SPR:

* Dreamcast (VR Texture) by Sega The identifying characters used for this association are - Hex: 54 45 58 4E , ASCII: TEXN
* Foxpro (Generated Screen Program) by Microsoft Corporation
* Half-Life (Sprite) by Sierra Entertainment, Inc.Graphic image (usually moving over a background). The Half-Life FAQ has a viewer. Related links: Half-Life FAQ
* IDSoftware (Sprite) The identifying characters used for this association are - Hex: 49 44 53 50 , ASCII: IDSP Related links: Sprite File Format
* Live for Speed (Single Player Replay) by Live for SpeedAn on-line racing simulator. This file contains a single player replay. This association is classified as Game. The identifying characters used for this association are - Hex: 4C 46 53 53 50 52 , ASCII: LFSSPR Related links: SPR File Header Format
* Lutin
* NeroMix by Nero AGNero’s digital media suite offers DVD/CD burning, editing and authoring, video, audio, photo, networking and back-up applications.

* Pro Motion (Sprites Sequence/Animation) by CosmigoPro Motion is a pixel oriented drawing and animation software for Windows. The identifying characters used for this association are - Hex: 53 50 52 , ASCII: SPR
* Psion (Series 3 Spreadsheet) by Psion PLC This association is classified as Spreadsheet.
* RiscOS Archimedes Sprite Format
* Sangduck (Sangduck Sprite File) The identifying characters used for this association are - Hex: 53 61 6E 67 64 75 63 6B 20 53 70 72 69 74 65 20 46 69 6C 65 , ASCII: S a n g d u c k S p r i t e F i l e
* Sizzler (Streaming Animation) The Mime types used with this association are: application/x-sprite.
* Sprint (Document) by Borland Software CorporationA word processor from the 1980s, from Borland. The identifying characters used for this association are - Hex: 0B 52 20 , ASCII: .R.Related links: Unofficial Sprint Page
* Star Trek Armada Sprite Information
* Telelogic Tau SDL Suite (Design File) by Telelogic ABTelelogic Tau SDL Suite based on the object-oriented design language SDL and the trace language MSC, both of which are formal, visual and internationally standardized languages.
* Unknown Apple II File ((found on Golden Orchard Apple II CD Rom))
Detailed information for file extension MPR:
Primary association: MPEG Audio Stream, Layer I, II or III
File classification: Audio
Other applications associated with file type MPR:

* AutoCAD (Mass Properties Report) by Autodesk, Inc.
* FileMaker Spelling Dictionary
* Live for Speed (Multiple Player Replay)An on-line racing simulator. This file contains a multiple player replay. This association is classified as Game. Related links: MPR File Header Format
* Multilizer (Project File) by Multilizer, Inc.Coordinates and facilitates the localization of programs (using different languages for different parts of the world).
* Music Publisher (Backup Data File) by Braeburn SoftwareMusic Publisher is a professional quality music notation software system for all 32-bit Windows platforms. Focussed entirely on the printed page it is above all a What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get visual system. The file format is proprietory binary (22 byte records) and is available on request to the author. This association is classified as Audio.
* Visual Foxpro (Solution Menus File) by Microsoft Corporation
* Westwood Studios Game File(e.g., Red Alert, et.al. - should be a text file)


Detailed information for file extension SET:
Primary association: Backup File Set
Company: Microsoft Corporation
Mime type: application/x-mspowerpoint
Program ID: File.Set
Other applications associated with file type SET:

* 1st Reader (Configuration)
* 3WayPack by The Three-Mode CompanyThe Three-Mode Company is a company devoted to creating three-mode software and promoting three-mode data analysis. File extension of an ASCII (or text) output file generated by 3WayPack, an advanced statistical package for three-mode data analysis. These files can be read with Notepad, Wordpad, and similar standard editors.
* Alpha Five (Set Data Dictionary) by Alpha Software, Inc.The set's data dictionary, which contains lists of additional set objects such as Layouts (forms, browses, etc.), report designs, saved and operations.
* AutoCAD (LT Set File) by Autodesk, Inc.Program ID: AutoCADLTTabSetFile
* BPM Studio (Encrypted User Information) by ALCATechSoftware to manage audio files. Useful for DJs.
* Configuration
* Corel Painter Settings File

* Diablo II (Character Set) by Blizzard EntertainmentRelated links: Shadowmaster Diablo II LOD Character Editor
* Driver Set
* HostAccess (Session Configuration Template) by Quovadx, Inc.Pixel Systems was taken over by Quovadx Jan 2003. HostAccess 7.2 allows you to rapidly transform the interface of existing host applications with toolbars, mouse support, pushbuttons, Active-X controls as well as the powerful AutoGUI and Web page integration. The SET file contains a session template.
* Image Settings
* Mastercam (Setup Sheet Templates) by CNC Software, Inc.Mastercam has solutions for milling, turning, wire EDM and design. This file is usually in the .\MILL6 folder. This association is classified as CAD/CAM.
* Nikon Capture (Settings File) by Nikon Inc.Nikon Capture allows you to make fundamental and subtle adjustments to your Nikon Electronic Format (NEF) files-without compromising the original file's integrity.Program ID: NikonCapture.Setting
* Setup Data or Info
* Sibelius (Sound Set Definition) by Sibelius Software LtdSpecifies the sounds etc. available in a particular MIDI playback device. Used in Sibelius version 3 & later.
* Symphony Driver Sets Created by Install
* Unknown Apple II File ((found on Golden Orchard Apple II CD Rom))
* XANA Web Browser (Configuration File) by Viktor HeimonenXANA stands for eXtensible Applications Native Approach.

Detailed information for file extension LYT:
Primary association: DESQview
Company: Symantec Corporation
Other applications associated with file type LYT:

* MetaCAM (Layout) by Metamation, Inc.The MetaCAM suite of products was developed by Metamation for the Sheet Metal Fabrication industry. This association is classified as CAD/CAM.
* MicroImages (Text Layout) by MicroImages, Inc.This file type is sometimes used by various MicroImages products. It is not common so you may not see it. Layout saved as text, rather than in .RVC Project File Format. (Older format than .LTT.)
* Printed Circuit Board (Layout File) This association is classified as CAD/CAM. The identifying characters used for this association are - Hex: 50 43 42 20 4C 41 59 4F 55 54 20 46 49 4C 45 1A 00 , ASCII: PCB LAYOUT FILE
* SignMaking Application Extension
* TurboTax (Install Log File) by Intuit

taken from filext.com

[Scawen]

worked fine, but i have question about file assosiating - does it really make sense to make .SET files working with only LFS? what it will exactly do when ill try to run it?It's not a very important thing to associate with LFS - so if another program uses that association in a useful way, you should switch off that option when installing.

All it does in LFS is copy the set file to your setups folder. This makes it easy to get a setup, for example one you find on a website, you can just "open" it from there and it's automatically saved to your setups folder.

You can reproduce this by manually saving a setup file into your setups folder.

Same with the SPR / MPR / LYT associations, they are only there for convenience but they are not necessary.

[freddyalek90]

Nice one! Worked like a charm here (Win7 x86 Ultimate), no problems of any sort :thumb:

[SamH]

Gah, I feel bad about weighing in so late in this...
The latest version of the installer seems great to me, I like how the default folder is now C:\LFS :thumbsup:
The one thing that is being missed is consideration for the "axe murderer" in the family. Installing to C:\LFS makes good sense in programming but a kick-ass LFS installer would offer a route for those sharing their PC with younger, non-LFSer members of the family. There would be community benefits to offering a <current user> installation option.
I realise there are reasons behind the new Windows structure and all that. Personally I have no idea what it's all about and I must admit that I am not inspired to move past XP at this point while there are so many issues with Vista.
Like me, for you the computer's OS is a means to an end rather than an end in itself. Migration to Vista or 7 won't make sense until the new OS exceeds XP's stability and offers some element of fast-track computing that you feel you need and that XP can't do. We don't have time, or don't see the point in committing the time, having to re-jig, jerry-rig or re-learn things in a new OS environment simply to tread water.

[Kegetys]

I realise there are reasons behind the new Windows structure and all that. Personally I have no idea what it's all about and I must admit that I am not inspired to move past XP at this point while there are so many issues with Vista.

The new, in my opinion proper, structuring is basically as follows:
- Executables and other static data in Program Files
- All user specific and "dynamic" data in user home directory*

This approach has numerous advantages:
- Only admin can access Program Files, so viruses for example cannot infect the executable files or do other damage to installed data
- Executables and data files are shared between all users of the computer, but each user automatically has their own config settings etc. without any special "profiles" support in the application
- Easy transfer and backup of your personal data, ie. you only need to take a backup of your home directory and all your important data is safe: You can reinstall the application itself and then copy your home dir data back and all is back the way it was, without having to do backups of the whole program installations (not a big issue in LFS' case, but if all other applications behave this way and LFS doesn't then its an annoyance to do special steps for LFS)
- All your private data is safe from other users, ie. if a server admin password is saved in some config file then its in your home dir and other users of the computer cannot get to read it

* In XP this is a bit messy, with horrible names like "Documents and Settings", "Application Data", etc. but this has been made more sensible in Vista and especially Windows 7.

(All this is documented by Microsoft and they do provide guidelines for using them, for example here (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms995853.aspx). I think the only reason why the situation today is such a mess is that many developers simply do not follow these guidelines)

[MudPuppy]

Well said Kegetys.

I'd only add that in truth this is very probably a forking point in the road. The two paths to be chosen from are the XP way and the win7 way.

Staying with XP is just as valid as opting to go with win7. Staying with XP will lead to staying with it until it's no longer supported and going with win7 is the way to a future which MS will be supporting.

What Kegetys said is not all of it, but it is the greater and most relevant part for now as far as anyone can tell right now.

Having elected not to use vista, and stayed with XP; I have also been trying Win7 for daily use on it's own machine in parallel for very nearly a year now and in my view it is the new XP. It was not instantly wonderful to use (or move over to), but I realise that the "minimal or reduced attack surface" proposition that MS has opted for makes so much sense that one would be utterly crazy to try and move forward without it. I guess it took a couple of weeks to feel remotely at home with it. A further 2 months or so and I felt at home enough to start accurately guessing what might fix any problems I encountered. Turns out that over all it's just a slight shift of mindset needed to cope with how it all works now. I'd say I've found it a rather liberating experience by now. Feels fresher, and both easy and quick to work with. At last say I!

Only other safe option for the future which springs to mind is to use XP and set up LFS on it, and then make sure it's not connected to the net in any way, or for any reason. That's a bit stark for my taste though.

[ORION]

The new, in my opinion proper, structuring is basically as follows:
- Executables and other static data in Program Files
- All user specific and "dynamic" data in user home directory*
So apparently, making use of this functionality would possibly exceed the amount of work that should be put into it. I mean, to adopt to this system in a nice and solid way, the user should have the ability to store custom files (textures, sounds, mods etc.) in his user folder, and the original files should remain in the program files folder. Then, LFS must first check the user folder, and then the program files folder, which might result in slower loading times or other problems, like for example the auto updater might not work anymore, because the user will not have admin rights to change the executable.
And even if this was possible - what happens when user A makes an online update of LFS, and user B has still some older files in his user folder, which are not incompatible with the new LFS version in program files?

[Kegetys]

The two paths to be chosen from are the XP way and the win7 way.

I would actually put it that the two ways are the Windows 95 way and the Windows NT way. The guidelines above are written for Windows 2000 and they are just as valid still for Windows 7, so this is not actually a new thing at all. It just that (finally) in Vista the default user is not an administrator user so all of the "wrongdoings" have just now really come to surface.

Then, LFS must first check the user folder, and then the program files folder, which might result in slower loading times or other problems

I cannot imagine any kind of problems with adding support for this, the effect for loading times of checking for existance of another file would be entirely unmeasurable and easy to program as well. Also, the sounds mods etc. aren't in a way a "supported" feature right now either so you could just install the mods as admin user and everything would work like they do now.


for example the auto updater might not work anymore, because the user will not have admin rights to change the executable.

The updater would ask for admin password. There is some flag you can set in the executable as far as I know that will do this automatically.

what happens when user A makes an online update of LFS, and user B has still some older files in his user folder, which are not incompatible with the new LFS version in program files

I think LFS already handles this without problems - you can install a new version and the old configs are either used as they are or updated. Also user A should not be able to do such an update anyway, only admin should.

[J.B.]

The new, in my opinion proper, structuring is basically as follows:
- Executables and other static data in Program Files
- All user specific and "dynamic" data in user home directory*


(All this is documented by Microsoft and they do provide guidelines for using them, for example here (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms995853.aspx). I think the only reason why the situation today is such a mess is that many developers simply do not follow these guidelines)

Thanks for the link. I'm still not getting it though.

Most of the listed benefits sound like they would only be useful in large corporate enviroments (roaming) and highly multi user machines with low diskspace (seperating static and dynamic data).

But even if it is a good idea to separate the location of data based on the type of data. How is the way this is done in Windows even close to being usable or practical?

You have to hunt down all the different locations that a program has installed itself to by searching in regedit and clicking through multiple hidden folders with names like 'C:\Users\<user>\AppData\LocalLow'. Hardly 'easy transfer and backup' is it?

And there isn't even a way to change the location of these special folders to another drive than the drive the OS is installed to.

[Kegetys]

Most of the listed benefits sound like they would only be useful in large corporate enviroments (roaming) and highly multi user machines with low diskspace (seperating static and dynamic data).

Roaming is the only one in my opinion, and also the reason why I didn't include it in my list. Computers today are a whole-family thing and it is not unusual at all to have multiple users for one computer and I remember discussions on this forum as well where people would want to have different settings for different users in LFS. And while LFS is small, many other software (esp. games) for sure arent; My Dragon Age - Origins install is 15GB for example and duplicating this for all users would be a big waste, plus then also having to keep backups of all this data as well if the game would not separate the install data and user data.

You have to hunt down all the different locations that a program has installed itself to by searching in regedit and clicking through multiple hidden folders with names like 'C:\Users\<user>\AppData\LocalLow'. Hardly 'easy transfer and backup' is it?

You backup your whole home dir (and the user registry keys) and its done. You can do it manually of course but typical use scenario would be to use a tool that does this for you (afaik. Windows 7 for example comes with some kind of transfer wizard that allows you to transfer these to a new windows installation very easily). And if all software would follow these guidelines then these tools would be simple to use and would really work - You backup the user data and everything "irreplaceable" is safe with minimal effort. Look at an LFS install for example; how could a generic backup tool know which files are install data that does not need to be backed up and which files are the user data? With the user data under the separate user home dir, you backup all that and everything is safe.

And there isn't even a way to change the location of these special folders to another drive than the drive the OS is installed to.

You can change the user home dir to any path you want from the user profile settings any time. You can also change the default path from the registry, but it is better to change that before install... I dont know if there is an official and easy way to do this but tools like nlite allow it.

[luke213]

Worked without a problem for me, running Windows 7 X64 Professional. On the default folder discussion, I really don't care where it gets placed. I run my own folder at c:\games that houses all my games(much like Victor it seems). I actually recommend this to other people if you reinstall windows fairly often. It saves me having to reinstall about 70% of my games because most of them recreate the registry settings when you run them, or run perfect without them. Either way most modern games run just from the directory(which is strange I had more trouble with that near 2000 than I've had lately). Either way I'm in the habit of changing the install directory on everything I install anyways.

Luke

[Scawen]

(All this is documented by Microsoft and they do provide guidelines for using them, for example here (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms995853.aspx). I think the only reason why the situation today is such a mess is that many developers simply do not follow these guidelines)Thank you for the link and comments.

I realise I should not really pass judgement on Microsoft's efforts before I have investigated and begun to understand it.

[J.B.]

Roaming is the only one in my opinion, and also the reason why I didn't include it in my list. Computers today are a whole-family thing and it is not unusual at all to have multiple users for one computer and I remember discussions on this forum as well where people would want to have different settings for different users in LFS. And while LFS is small, many other software (esp. games) for sure arent; My Dragon Age - Origins install is 15GB for example and duplicating this for all users would be a big waste, plus then also having to keep backups of all this data as well if the game would not separate the install data and user data.

True, about large programs like games, I guess. But concerning home users using multiple accounts, I think that the trend is more likely to be less people sharing computers than in the past due to ultra cheap PC and laptop prices.


You backup your whole home dir (and the user registry keys) and its done. You can do it manually of course but typical use scenario would be to use a tool that does this for you (afaik. Windows 7 for example comes with some kind of transfer wizard that allows you to transfer these to a new windows installation very easily). And if all software would follow these guidelines then these tools would be simple to use and would really work - You backup the user data and everything "irreplaceable" is safe with minimal effort. Look at an LFS install for example; how could a generic backup tool know which files are install data that does not need to be backed up and which files are the user data? With the user data under the separate user home dir, you backup all that and everything is safe.


But what if I only want to backup one program, not my whole User folder? As an example Oblivion is at 'C:\Users\<user>\Documents\My Games\Oblivion' and 'C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Local\Oblivion'.

So the backup procedure would be
-unhide folders
-set windows search to also search in hidden folders
-search the users folder for oblivion and hope nothing gets missed
-recreate the folder structures at your backup location
-copy the found folders

Hardly simple compared to just copying one folder, that you know exactly where it is, as you put it there yourself or were at least asked about it during install.



You can change the user home dir to any path you want from the user profile settings any time.

Could you point me there, I couldn't find it. Would be extremely useful for Win 7 on my 4 GB SSD eee.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion, at least I now have an idea what it's all about. It does seem to me that the idea of data separation by type isn't a bad one, but is too complicated in Windows, or maybe missing tools and guidelines. Maybe each software should have a standard data manager, like it has an installer and an uninstaller, a tool that will tell you which data is where and let you move and copy it.

[Shotglass]

The new, in my opinion proper, structuring is basically as follows:
- Executables and other static data in Program Files
- All user specific and "dynamic" data in user home directory*

something tells me that this would end up with a proper mess and possibly broken used data during test patch runs

as far as test patching goes it doesnt get any easier and more userfriendly than selecting your entire lfs folder and copy pasting it to a new location that you can then apply the test patch to thus creating a entirely seperate copy of lfs (without any problems caused through not having that folder properly configured in the registry or whereever else)

[Victor]

I'm assuming we are all above average computer users (windows users) _in here_ and even we cannot come to a uniform conclusion or understanding. How on earth is an average windows user supposed to understand all this?
It's all good and well that windows programmers invented this security but they forgot that normal people will be using it. And linking to some articles written again by programmers isn't gonna help either if people won't find it. MS has totally forgot to inform people on how to use Windows, or did they expect us all to take a Windows class? And people complain about how *nix is hard to use...

So the result is that we will provide the default folder of C:\LFS
If you want your LFS somewhere else, you're totally free to do so.

Looks like there aren't any more problems, so prolly the installer will be replacing the 7zip tomorrow.

[Shadowww]

Replacing? Please nooo :(

Keep old 7zip too please, it is much easier to use :(

[NotAnIllusion]

Replacing? Please nooo :(

Keep old 7zip too please, it is much easier to use :(
Both can be from the context menu in exactly the same way, there's no difference if you want to use the installer like a standard compressed archive.

[IlGuercio]

:thumb:Victor,the default folder is just as a suggestion after all.
Anyone is free to change it to suit his needs.

[Shotglass]

So the result is that we will provide the default folder of C:\LFS
If you want your LFS somewhere else, you're totally free to do so.

one solution that could make everybody happy would be to use the standard intended windows way by default but link to the file locations in the cfg so anybody can set it up to their liking
this would allow anything from %userfolder/appdata to the good old ./data or some other location on the drives

[JackCY]

will try, but I'm not a fan of installers, they only do useless things and no body ever knows what it really does, registry etc.
if you can stay with the packed version (zip, rar, 7z, ...) it would be good, no installer needed, never had any problems, thx

...
Looks like there aren't any more problems, so prolly the installer will be replacing the 7zip tomorrow.
NOOO :(

just learn how to use your computer people, packed version much easier, download -> unpack -> play

[Velociround]

will try, but I'm not a fan of installers, they only do useless things and no body ever knows what it really does, registry etc.
if you can stay with the packed version (zip, rar, 7z, ...) it would be good, no installer needed, never had any problems, thx

Right click on the installer, "Extract to Live for Speed", click that, done.
No need to keep the 7z packed version, just the installer one, and anyone can extract it and play without running the installer.

[JackCY]

Right click on the installer, "Extract to Live for Speed", click that, done.
No need to keep the 7z packed version, just the installer one, and anyone can extract it and play without running the installer.
oh OK, if it can be extracted, but normal installers can't or only with some tools (not for normal users)

[Shadowww]

oh OK, if it can be extracted, but normal installers can't or only with some tools (not for normal users)InstallShield != normal installers.

I just did some research and found that NSIS, Inno Setup and Smart Install Creator-produced installers can be unpacked that way.

[Kegetys]

Could you point me there, I couldn't find it. Would be extremely useful for Win 7 on my 4 GB SSD eee.

In XP one way to change it is from computer management, local users and groups, users and then right click on the user and go to properties. In the 'profile' tab there is a setting for home folder, which should default to empty (In which case it will use 'documents and settings', or 'users' in vista/7).

[zeromussov]

I installed this on my laptop, installation works fine... but where are my spr/setup/mpr folders? Can't find them, and if I try to open a MPR file, it gives the follow error: 'Error copying file'

Installed it in C:/Program Files/Live for Speed, should be possible right? Even if that's not the intention of you guys.

-Edit: Works after launching LFS.exe first. Still think mpr/spr/... folders needs to be in LFS default folder. (like now) Or isn't this possible with the auto-file association?

[vari]

I installed this on my laptop, installation works fine... but where are my spr/setup/mpr folders? Can't find them, and if I try to open a MPR file, it gives the follow error: 'Error copying file'

Installed it in C:/Program Files/Live for Speed, should be possible right? Even if that's not the intention of you guys.

If you have Windows 7 or Vista(?), look at: C:\Users\user\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\Live for Speed The AppData folder is hidden by default :)

[IlGuercio]

Lol,people are complaining about the installer:D
I should've expected that.

[VOLK]

worked well here.
liked the new file association feature.

chears. :thumb:

[M0rV]

All works great, good work.

[J.B.]

In XP one way to change it is from computer management, local users and groups, users and then right click on the user and go to properties. In the 'profile' tab there is a setting for home folder, which should default to empty (In which case it will use 'documents and settings', or 'users' in vista/7).

Thx, just tested it in VPC.

After changing the setting the new folder is created. None of the data was moved so I tried to move it manually which of course failed due to files being in use.

So then I booted my Win7 DVD to repair mode and used robocopy to move the files from the old user home to the new one. Then after rebooting Windows looked and behaved as if I had reinstalled the OS, with quite a few apps broken... Then I tried installing new software and guess what, Windows didn't even use the new user location I had set up but used 'Documents and Settings' instead.

So not only was the procedure complicated, it was also completely useless, and more or less messed up my (virtual) system.

Obviously I did something wrong along the way, but this little experiment has convinced me even more that something is very wrong with the Windows file location structure. I mean surely there needs to be a simple way to put the user data to a place that is not on the same drive as the OS?

[pako_customize]

great job :smileypul

[J03130]

worked good for me.

[the_angry_angel]

Sorry to weigh in really late on this one, but -
How on earth is an average windows user supposed to understand all this?They aren't. That's the point. The companies and people producing software should be familiar enough with the concepts of preventing their program file directory from being globally writable, etc.

I would like to say that these are new concepts and that it is a surprise, unfortunately it's not and it's something I have to battle with on a monthly basis for customers that use terminal servers and other highly locked down Windows based environments. %APPDATA% and %USERPROFILE% exist for a bloodly good reason, all of which Kegetys has already outlined. They should be used, and potentially you should at least have the ability to manually specify another location for storage if neither of these are suitable for the user.

[Hoshimodo]

Installation/file association/uninstall worked fine on my system (Win7x64)

[Gegry1992]

The default destanition folder is "C:\LFS\"?

[Scawen]

The default destanition folder is "C:\LFS\"?Yes

[SanSebi]

when i install the lfs with this installer, i must one more time unlock my s2 licence?

[Scawen]

It's just a test of the installer. I think most people run the test in a new place then uninstall it again. No-one needs to install this unless they want to test the installer, which many people have done and that has been very helpful because it seems all the problems have been resolved (other than that we are not yet conforming to the way MS would like developers to save application data and user data in different places on the hard drive to allow multiple users to share application data and to allow free roaming - which is a programming project and not simply a matter of choosing a default install location).

Of course, you can install it and unlock if you want to. You'll get another unlock on Friday as you do every Friday when you have less than 2 spare.

Disclaimer : The word "yet" in the paragraph above does not imply that we will definitely support the directories all over the place thing. I will read up on that at some time in the future when I do not have higher priority tasks so do, and decide to do that if it is interesting and would help in some way. And I have many much higher priority tasks than making LFS conform to a system designed to help with large "applications" that LFS is not.

[askoff]

It's just a test of the installer. I think most people run the test in a new place then uninstall it again. No-one needs to install this unless they want to test the installer, which many people have done and that has been very helpful because it seems all the problems have been resolved (other than that we are not yet conforming to the way MS would like developers to save application data and user data in different places on the hard drive to allow multiple users to share application data and to allow free roaming - which is a programming project and not simply a matter of choosing a default install location).
I would like to point out that Unix based operating systems have had almost similar way of saving user data and application data in separate folders quite a bit longer than Windows. After using those system for years now, I can see the benefits that kegetys pointed out already much more clearly.

[J.B.]

does not imply that we will definitely support the directories all over the place thing.

:d

[Ripley]

Installed in default dir and uninstalled with no problems at all in XP32.

So, to sum it up, it just decompress the "installer" in the chosen folder, it creates some default associations, and points the new user to "create account" webpage? That's it ?

[SpikeyMarcoD]

Sorry to weigh in really late on this one, but -
They aren't. That's the point. The companies and people producing software should be familiar enough with the concepts of preventing their program file directory from being globally writable, etc.

I would like to say that these are new concepts and that it is a surprise, unfortunately it's not and it's something I have to battle with on a monthly basis for customers that use terminal servers and other highly locked down Windows based environments. %APPDATA% and %USERPROFILE% exist for a bloodly good reason, all of which Kegetys has already outlined. They should be used, and potentially you should at least have the ability to manually specify another location for storage if neither of these are suitable for the user.

In defense of the average user he should know this when installing skins or setups. Its not as easy then as just look where the program. So its not easy and transparant. Maybe to new windows users, definetely not to old. No matter which good reasons there might have been for introducing it.

Especially since both kegesys and yourself are looking mainly from programmers view.

[EsCoRt RaLLy]

Works perfect on Windows 7 64bit. :thumb:

[Victor]

Installed in default dir and uninstalled with no problems at all in XP32.

So, to sum it up, it just decompress the "installer" in the chosen folder, it creates some default associations, and points the new user to "create account" webpage? That's it ?

pretty much, yes :)
And translations are being added as we speak

[Dmt]

It works perfectly on W7 64x.. now we want to test new physics please. :nod:

[Scawen]

Installed in default dir and uninstalled with no problems at all in XP32.

So, to sum it up, it just decompress the "installer" in the chosen folder, it creates some default associations, and points the new user to "create account" webpage? That's it ?Yes, this is just to make it easier to install LFS.

Many users, who have used a computer for years, don't actually know how to deal with a self extracting archive, because they have simply never come across one. The just download the installer and run it (without moving it to the place where they want their program to be).

So... many users end up with LFS in their downloads folder or on their desktop. Others, thinking more carefully, install it into their program files folder, but Victor has been receiving more mails with problems that come up from this approach, when users use Vista or Windows Seven and there are access problems which depend on whether they are logged in as administrator or not. Another problem is people asking how to uninstall LFS - they don't realise that they can simply delete the folder (not a good way to uninstall most software although that was the only way to remove LFS).

So all we are doing is providing an installer than you can run from any location and LFS will be installed in a good place (just like most software you download). And it can be uninstalled in the normal way. The effect on the registry is minimal - just those file associations and there is an LFS entry in the start menu, including an uninstall function. LFS itself doesn't even know about it - it's just the same old Z25.

[Ripley]

Thanks Victor & Scawen.

[Velociround]

Yes, this is just to make it easier to install LFS.

Many users, who have used a computer for years, don't actually know how to deal with a self extracting archive, because they have simply never come across one. The just download the installer and run it (without moving it to the place where they want their program to be).

That's so true. I know many people who have downloaded LFS to their Downloads folder, opened the self extracting archive and simply pressed the first button that appeared on the screen as if it were a normal installer, expecting it to install in the correct place and create a uninstall option, just to then find out their download folder (which was already not very organized) was now filled with LFS files, and that they had to figure out which files belong to LFS and which doesn't in order to delete them to then try doing it right the next time with the self extracting archive.

I've also seen some people that even think about changing the extracting location, but only put something like C:\Program Files\ and expect the self-extracting file to create the LFS folder (which it doesn't), thus having their Program Files folder messed up, and again not knowing which files belong to LFS and which don't.

Edit: I for myself when I first downloaded LFS I opened the self extracting archive, noticed that screen with the place to extract the game and I didn't like it because by that time I couldn't know if it was going to first extract the game to then install it or if it would be ready to play right after extracting, and then, trying not to mess anything up, I just thought of it like any other compressed file and chose "Extract it to LFS_PATCH_U folder" on WinRAR.

[Scawen]

Yes. Just ask your Dad to download and install LFS then go and have a look at his computer. :D

[Heiko1]

nice to see updates
but download is very slow and i dont know why...
its not my internet connection

as a fact:
all the LFS.net sites are loading slow on my computer :(
all other sites are still ok with loading/downloading speed.

[MaKaKaZo]

So... is the new installer going to replace completely the old self extracting file or are you going to keep both formats? There are many people who are happy and used to the non-installer format, and we prefer it that way. I really feel more comfortable with the non installable version, but anyway I understand that the average Windows user will go 100% of the times for the installer.

Please consider the possibility of keeping the self extracting version (or just a normal zip file) as a secondary download option for us who like to manage our folders "manually" :)

[NotAnIllusion]

As I said before, the installer changes nothing for those who prefer a zip. Right-click and extract to.. works exactly the same way as before.

[Ripley]

It's not so different than what we're used to.
File associations aside, the installer just unzips itself in the folder you provide.

The benefit is that it creates a parent folder, so that the average newbie doesn't mix up files.

Edit: well, I right-clicked on it just to try, and it created some weird temp $$$ folders (XP with 7-zip)...I guess game doesn't like that folder structure...

[Victor]

I have attached a new test installer (that only contains two LFS files, so it doesn't install LFS fully) with 26 translations.

The (main) tests :
-When the language selection box opens, is the right default language pre-selected for you? (and which one was that, in case there was one available for youor language)
-When selecting that language, does the text in the rest of the installer look good?

You will not see all 26 translations in the language selector. That is because of limitations in the way NSIS uses codepages. You should however see all the language that your computer/NSIS can display correctly.
The language selector should just be for testing. It will be removed later on if it appears the auto-detection works properly.

supported languages :
Belarussian
Brazilian
Bulgarian
Castellano
Catalan
Croatian
Czech
Dansk
Deutsch
Estonian
French
Hungarian
Italiano
Japanese
Korean
Latino
Latvian
Lithuanian
Nederlands
Norsk
Polski
Russian
Serbian
Simplified_Chinese
Slovak
Suomi

EDIT - updated with some modifications

[Napalm Candy]

Please consider the possibility of keeping the self extracting version (or just a normal zip file) as a secondary download option for us who like to manage our folders "manually" :)

I prefer too the self extracting version, it is easy to me (we are of the MS-DOS generation :thumb:), but if you think don't has sense. What it is the advantage? So if you are thinking to unnistall... How many times you has unnistalled LFS? :)

What I don't like is having data in 2 or 3 different folders, so 2 weeks ago I have installed W7 and don't need to reinstall LFS

[Victor]

It's not so different than what we're used to.
File associations aside, the installer just unzips itself in the folder you provide.

The benefit is that it creates a parent folder, so that the average newbie doesn't mix up files.

Edit: well, I right-clicked on it just to try, and it created some weird temp $$$ folders (XP with 7-zip)...I guess game doesn't like that folder structure...

it extracts the folder structure the installer uses to install LFS. That structure does contain all the files and folders of LFS, but you'd have to move them from the weird temp folder back into the 'root' folder. Then you can delete the other temporary folders. So it's not really straight forward extracting, but it can be done.

We may keep a 7zip available for download btw for those die hards amongst you :p But it won't be on the regular downloads page.

[Ripley]

...The (main) tests :
-When the language selection box opens, is the right default language pre-selected for you?
-When selecting that language, does the text in the rest of the installer look good?...
- Yes
- Yes

it extracts the folder structure the installer uses to install LFS. That structure does contain all the files and folders of LFS, but you'd have to move them from the weird temp folder back into the 'root' folder. Then you can delete the other temporary folders. So it's not really straight forward extracting, but it can be done...
Yes I see, but at this point just running the installer is less "complicated".

[Heiko1]

Originally Posted by Victor http://www.lfsforum.net/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1310220#post1310220)
...The (main) tests :
-When the language selection box opens, is the right default language pre-selected for you?
-When selecting that language, does the text in the rest of the installer look good?...


-Yes
-No (the last thing with "If you got allready an account" just in german)
the sentence dont show up completly.

[balee]

The Hungarian text seems buggy. Attached picture.
Anyway the language selecting was correct, text looks fine.

[Whiskey]

It works ok with spanish.
It also change to the language selected

[Victor]

The Hungarian text seems buggy. Attached picture.
Anyway the language selecting was correct, text looks fine.

hmmmmm sorry but I can't see what's buggy :shy: Please can you elaborate?

[MaKaKaZo]

It works ok with spanish.
It also change to the language selected
It works in Spanish but the translation is a bit off. It needs to be edited a little using more formal speech and there are some expressions that should be changed and mistakes to be corrected.

[Victor]

-Yes
-No (the last thing with "If you got allready an account" just in german)
the sentence dont show up completly.
[/I]

Thanks, that's fixed in my version now.

[Victor]

It works in Spanish but the translation is a bit off. It needs to be edited a little using more formal speech and there are some expressions that should be changed and mistakes to be corrected.

could you please give some examples as feedback for the translator?

[msk]

-No (the last thing with "If you got allready an account" just in german)
the sentence dont show up completly.

Same problem in Polish version. One word is missing I think(or maybe more). [/URL][URL="http://i33.tinypic.com/2cickn7.jpg"]Pic. (http://i33.tinypic.com/2cickn7.jpg)

[Victor]

i've uploaded a new test version in that same post.

[balee]

hmmmmm sorry but I can't see what's buggy :shy: Please can you elaborate?

God... it's not buggy. I just didn't noticed the sentence continues correctly after the dots. Sorry fot that!

[MaKaKaZo]

could you please give some examples as feedback for the translator?

First screen:

"Este asistente te guiará a través de la instalación del Live for Speed.

Haz clic en Siguiente para continuar."

change to:

"Este asistente le guiará a través de la instalación de Live for Speed.

Haga clic en Siguiente para continuar."

This way it's more formal and in accordance with the rest of the text in the installer.


License agreement screen:

All the license agreement text inside the white frame is in informal speech and it should use formal speech as the rest of the instaler. This is the most important part. Also, it should use starting punctuation characters.

"Bienvenido a Live for Speed!

Para utilizar este programa, debes aceptar el siguiente texto :

- El Live for Speed está en continuo desarrollo. Podrán ser añadidas, modificadas o quitada algunas características en cualquier momento. Podrían ser añadidas algunas características que pueden estar incompletas, aunque funcionales, para mejorar la variedad y el contenido del simulador.

- Este programa no viene con ningún tipo de garantía.

- Instalar y utilizar este programa es bajo tu responsabilidad. Los desarrolladores de Live for Speed no tienen ningún tipo de responsabilidad de los daños personales o causados a tu ordenador que éste pueda causar durante su utilización.

- El contenido de la DEMO lo puede utilizar cualquiera, es totalmente gratis. El contenido BLOQUEADO es solo para usuarios con la correspondiente licencia. No debes intentar acceder al contenido bloqueado, o ayudar a otras personas a hacerlo, de ninguna otra manera que no sea adquiriendo una licencia y utilizando la ventana del juego destinada a desbloquearlo.

Gracias."

change to:

"¡Bienvenido a Live for Speed!

Para utilizar este programa, debe aceptar el siguiente texto:

- Live for Speed está en continuo desarrollo. Podrán ser añadidas, modificadas o eliminadas algunas características en cualquier momento. Podrían ser añadidas algunas características que pueden estar incompletas, aunque funcionales, para mejorar la variedad y el contenido del simulador.

- Este programa no viene con ningún tipo de garantía.

- Instalar y utilizar este programa es bajo su propia responsabilidad. Los desarrolladores de Live for Speed no tienen ningún tipo de responsabilidad de los daños personales o a su ordenador que éste pueda causar durante su utilización.

- El contenido de la DEMO lo puede utilizar cualquiera, es totalmente gratuito. El contenido BLOQUEADO es sólo para usuarios con la correspondiente licencia. No debe intentar acceder al contenido bloqueado, o ayudar a otras personas a hacerlo, de ninguna otra manera que no sea adquiriendo una licencia y utilizando la ventana del juego destinada a desbloquearlo.

Gracias."


Shortcuts and file associations screen:

"asociación de ficheros"
"Selecciona que ... quieres crear :"

change to:

"asociaciones de ficheros" (in three places)
"Seleccione qué ... desea crear:" (in three places)


Final screen:

"Haz clic aquí para crear una cuenta LFS si no tienes ninguna"

change to:

"Haga clic aquí para crear una cuenta LFS si no tiene ninguna"




I'll say that overall the translation is good, but some things make a product look more serious. It's important to use formal speech for this kind of translation, and even more important to not mix formal with informal. The rest of the fixes proposed are minor things. There are some sentences in the license agreement text that could be changed to sound better in formal speech, but I didn't want to go that far. I hope the translator is not offended by these suggestions.

[Whiskey]

I like the change Makakazo proposes :thumb:

[filipvdv]

install/uninstall went perfect on good old XP machine.

[arco]

As I said before, the installer changes nothing for those who prefer a zip. Right-click and extract to.. works exactly the same way as before.
Not with WinRAR it seems.

[Shadowww]

Not with WinRAR it seems.Why would you use WinRAR when there is a better and free alternative? e.g. 7zip :shrug:

[boothy]

WinRAR is free, and seems pretty good to me.

[arco]

Why would you use WinRAR when there is a better and free alternative? e.g. 7zip :shrug:
I'll admit it's been a few years since I've last tried it, and back then I didn't like its GUI very much. So I stuck with WinRAR.

[NotAnIllusion]

Not with WinRAR it seems.
Hm, right you are. Thought it would have, since 7z does :(

WinRAR is free, and seems pretty good to me.
If you break licence agreement by using the unlicensed trial after the 40 day evaluation period, yes :smileypul

[ORION]

WinRAR is free, and seems pretty good to me.
It just depends on the type of data you are compressing. 7z is providing one of the best compressions out there, but in some situations, rar is better, too (iirc for TGA images). The MAJOR advantage of 7z is the fact that it is completely open source!

[vari]

Windows 7 Ultimate 64b, Regional Settings as Finnish(Finland) (also for non unicode programs) but I'm using English as windows language.

The installer had english by default, I could choose Suomi from the list however.

Instead of 'Seuraavaan' I would've used 'alla olevaan' and
Instead of 'koneeltasi' -> 'tietokoneeltasi' maybe...

But I hear those are translations already in NSIS.

[Napalm Candy]

Shortcuts and file associations screen:

"Selecciona que ... quieres crear :"

change to:

"Seleccione qué ... desea crear:" (in three places)

I'm not sure that "Seleccione qué..." is correct, to me correct it is without accent "Seleccione que...". "Qué" is for answer or exclamations :shrug: (I'm not sure is if an exception)

[Shotglass]

theres several issues with the german translation mostly that its all over the place randomly switching between "du" and "sie" and often not capitalising it
i can run it again read everything properly and elaborate if youd like

We may keep a 7zip available for download btw for those die hards amongst you :p But it won't be on the regular downloads page.

wohoo and could you make it .zip again fro the hardcoreness of it all?

[MaKaKaZo]

I'm not sure that "Seleccione qué..." is correct, to me correct it is without accent "Seleccione que...". "Qué" is for answer or exclamations :shrug: (I'm not sure is if an exception)

Well, I'm sure. "Qué" is written with a tilde when it's a pronoun (a "pronombre interrogativo" in this case), and that applies to both direct and indirect questions:
Direct question (pronoun): "¿Qué accesos directos desea?"
Indirect question (pronoun): "Seleccione qué accesos directos desea:"
Not a question (conjunction): "Seleccione los accesos directos que desee:"

This is not a linguistic forum nor the thread to discuss this, so let's end it here please.

[Scawen]

theres several issues with the german translation mostly that its all over the place randomly switching between "du" and "sie" and often not capitalising it
i can run it again read everything properly and elaborate if youd likeI think that would be helpful if maybe you could take some screenshots and show where the problems are? Thanks.

wohoo and could you make it .zip again fro the hardcoreness of it all?I guess not because zip is a much bigger file size than what 7zip can produce. And it has to be a self extracting exe because not that many people have 7zip installed.

[Velociround]

I have attached a new test installer [...] with 20 translations.
[...]
-When the language selection box opens, is the right default language pre-selected for you? (and which one was that, in case there was one available for youor language)
-When selecting that language, does the text in the rest of the installer look good?
[...]
The language selector should just be for testing. It will be removed later on if it appears the auto-detection works properly.

[...]por quaisquer danos pesoais ou materiais no seu computador que possam ocorrer durante o uso deste software.[...]

pessoais would be the correct term. "pesoais" is a typo.
And in the last part of the installer, I suggest it should be "Instalador" instead of "Assistente", but it doesn't matter so much, both are right. The only problem is the typo on the agreement.

I have Windows 7 Ultimate and I can easily change the system language at any time, so I tried changing it to all 5 languages I have currently installed, and the installer selected the correct language at all times. Great work ;)


Edit:
And it has to be a self extracting exe because not that many people have 7zip installed.

I for one don't. ;)

[Warper]

When selecting that language, does the text in the rest of the installer look good?


Worked perfectly fine here on german Windows 7 64bit on a Mac (Bootcamp) ;) (Install & Uninstall)

theres several issues with the german translation mostly that its all over the place randomly switching between "du" and "sie" and often not capitalising it
i can run it again read everything properly and elaborate if youd like



wohoo and could you make it .zip again fro the hardcoreness of it all?

I just had a quick look, but it seems that the LFS license agreement is fine. But on the same page the installer text telling me about the agreement and everything is using the formal "Sie" unlike the rest which is using "Du".

[FlyingSam]

I'm not sure that "Seleccione qué..." is correct, to me correct it is without accent "Seleccione que...". "Qué" is for answer or exclamations :shrug: (I'm not sure is if an exception)

:x It's correct...... ^^

Everything is ok, except when I choose to install, for example, only mpr and spr, and it installs everything... Did somebody comment it? I think yes, but anyway I say it... :D

About the new way to install LFS, I think it's a good idea, easier to install.

Greetings.

[tristancliffe]

Will 'extras' have their own installer? By extras, I mean the Viewer at the moment (but maybe other external utilities in the future)?

I don't think it's difficult to install manually at all, but for the same reasons as an installer for LFS itself, future skinners might want the viewer package to have an installer.

What happens with updates? Assuming somebody installs LFS (with the new installer), and then chooses to update it by downloading and installing a newer version - i.e. without the auto updater - will the installer cope with two LFS installs, even though one is overwritten?

Okay, I'm not explaining myself well, but maybe you understand?

For the record, I'll use the installer myself. It's not that I can't do the manual way, or find it even at all difficult. But having things like start menu entries (and, in W7, a Games listing entry) done automatically is a more polished approach.

[Vagner]

pessoais would be the correct term. "pesoais" is a typo.
And in the last part of the installer, I suggest it should be "Instalador" instead of "Assistente", but it doesn't matter so much, both are right. The only problem is the typo on the agreement.

I already corrected a time ago. Guess Scawen not put the help translations all the time.

Assistente, Instalador, Programa ... qual a diferença né?:shrug:

[BOSCHO]

For the Bulgarian language its looks good with no errors and wrong texts :thumb:

[Shadowww]

I guess not because zip is a much bigger file size than what 7zip can produce. And it has to be a self extracting exe because not that many people have 7zip installed.WinRAR can open 7zip archives, in fact most new archivers do.

[DeXteRrBDN]

First screen:

"Este asistente te guiará a través de la instalación del Live for Speed.

Haz clic en Siguiente para continuar."

change to:

"Este asistente le guiará a través de la instalación de Live for Speed.

Haga clic en Siguiente para continuar."

This way it's more formal and in accordance with the rest of the text in the installer.


License agreement screen:

All the license agreement text inside the white frame is in informal speech and it should use formal speech as the rest of the instaler. This is the most important part. Also, it should use starting punctuation characters.

"Bienvenido a Live for Speed!

Para utilizar este programa, debes aceptar el siguiente texto :

- El Live for Speed está en continuo desarrollo. Podrán ser añadidas, modificadas o quitada algunas características en cualquier momento. Podrían ser añadidas algunas características que pueden estar incompletas, aunque funcionales, para mejorar la variedad y el contenido del simulador.

- Este programa no viene con ningún tipo de garantía.

- Instalar y utilizar este programa es bajo tu responsabilidad. Los desarrolladores de Live for Speed no tienen ningún tipo de responsabilidad de los daños personales o causados a tu ordenador que éste pueda causar durante su utilización.

- El contenido de la DEMO lo puede utilizar cualquiera, es totalmente gratis. El contenido BLOQUEADO es solo para usuarios con la correspondiente licencia. No debes intentar acceder al contenido bloqueado, o ayudar a otras personas a hacerlo, de ninguna otra manera que no sea adquiriendo una licencia y utilizando la ventana del juego destinada a desbloquearlo.

Gracias."

change to:

"¡Bienvenido a Live for Speed!

Para utilizar este programa, debe aceptar el siguiente texto:

- Live for Speed está en continuo desarrollo. Podrán ser añadidas, modificadas o eliminadas algunas características en cualquier momento. Podrían ser añadidas algunas características que pueden estar incompletas, aunque funcionales, para mejorar la variedad y el contenido del simulador.

- Este programa no viene con ningún tipo de garantía.

- Instalar y utilizar este programa es bajo su propia responsabilidad. Los desarrolladores de Live for Speed no tienen ningún tipo de responsabilidad de los daños personales o a su ordenador que éste pueda causar durante su utilización.

- El contenido de la DEMO lo puede utilizar cualquiera, es totalmente gratuito. El contenido BLOQUEADO es sólo para usuarios con la correspondiente licencia. No debe intentar acceder al contenido bloqueado, o ayudar a otras personas a hacerlo, de ninguna otra manera que no sea adquiriendo una licencia y utilizando la ventana del juego destinada a desbloquearlo.

Gracias."


Shortcuts and file associations screen:

"asociación de ficheros"
"Selecciona que ... quieres crear :"

change to:

"asociaciones de ficheros" (in three places)
"Seleccione qué ... desea crear:" (in three places)


Final screen:

"Haz clic aquí para crear una cuenta LFS si no tienes ninguna"

change to:

"Haga clic aquí para crear una cuenta LFS si no tiene ninguna"




I'll say that overall the translation is good, but some things make a product look more serious. It's important to use formal speech for this kind of translation, and even more important to not mix formal with informal. The rest of the fixes proposed are minor things. There are some sentences in the license agreement text that could be changed to sound better in formal speech, but I didn't want to go that far. I hope the translator is not offended by these suggestions.

I've made the changes. Sorry for the informal translation, but I did not check the Installer self translation, that was formal, and mine was informal. So they were mixed.

License agreement is the only text I've not formalized, so it shares the game text.

Thanks for your notes.

I've olso modified Catalan translation.

[Victor]

Post http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1310220#post1310220 has been updated with a test installer with all the latest updates.

[racing.dude]

It installed no problems, but the uninstaller left both the LFS and the DATA folders.
Win 7 x64

[yaper]

One note about language selection removing.

I tested installation on my corporate laptop. It has English WinXP installed, and LFS is choosing English as an installation language. I set all the regional and language options in control panel to Polish, but it doesn't help.

During installation I can thankfully switch to Polish language, but uninstallation is running only in English. :(

[freddyalek90]

Works ok in Italian, but I've noticed some mistakes with the translation.
For example:

"Per usare questo software, devi accettare le seguenti condizioni :"
should be
"Per usare questo software, deve accettare le seguenti condizioni:";

Then, in the paragraph that begins with "I contenuti DEMO...":

"Non devi cercare [...]"
should be
"Non deve cercare [...]"

Then, in the end, there's:

"Prego cliccare il pulsante verde "accetto" per continuare, o il pulsante rosso "esci" se non accetta."
which means
"Please click the green (?) button "Agree" to continue, or the red (?) button "Exit" if you don't agree."
and then should be
"Prego cliccare il pulsante "Accetto" per continuare o il pulsante "Annulla" per non accettare."


When you uninstall it, it says:

"Stai per rimuovere Live for Speed [...]"
and that should be
"Sta per rimuovere Live for Speed [...]"

And, finally:

"Puoi comunque decidere [...]. In questo caso potrai eliminarle [...]."
which should be
"Può comunque decidere [...]. In questo caso potrà eliminarle [...]."


Other than that, it works well!

[Victor]

One note about language selection removing.

I tested installation on my corporate laptop. It has English WinXP installed, and LFS is choosing English as an installation language. I set all the regional and language options in control panel to Polish, but it doesn't help.

During installation I can thankfully switch to Polish language, but uninstallation is running only in English. :(

hm odd. It should remember the installation language and use it during the uninstaller. Not sure why that didn't work for you.

[racing.dude]

I have installed it several times now with each of the included languages and it did remember the install language when it uninstalled.
As for it not deleting the LFS folder, I found it was because the DATA folder was open in the list view that caused it to not delete the folders.
If I just uninstalled it, then it did delete those folders.:thumb:

[matrxs]

I noticed few mistakes in Lithuanian translation during the install:

After choosing language
'Šis instaliacijos vedlys padės jums instaliuoti of Live For Speed' <- there shouldn't be 'of'.
'Spauskite Next jei norite tęsti' <- I think 'Next' should be translated to 'Toliau'.

After pressing Next
- Live for Speed yra pastoviai tobulinamas. Funkcijos gali būti pridedamos, keičiamos ar pašalinamos bet kada. Kai kurios veikiančios, bet neužbaigtos funkcijos gali būti įtrauktos norint prapėlsti simuliatoriaus įvairovę ir turinį.
<- should be 'praplėsti'.

After pressing 'I agree'
'Pasirinkite katalogą į kūri įdiegsite Live For Speed.' <- should be 'kurį'.

Hope I helped a bit. :D
P.S. Sorry for my bad English. :)

[Warper]

Post http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1310220#post1310220 has been updated with a test installer with all the latest updates.

Victor, German looks fine now (Formal/Informal). Since the language auto selection works fine obviously, why dont you translate the sentence "Select language" in the auto selected language?

[J.I.T]

I have attached a new test installer (that only contains two LFS files, so it doesn't install LFS fully) with 23 translations.

The (main) tests :
-When the language selection box opens, is the right default language pre-selected for you? (and which one was that, in case there was one available for youor language)
-When selecting that language, does the text in the rest of the installer look good?

You will not see all 23 translations in the language selector. That is because of limitations in the way NSIS uses codepages. You should however see all the language that your computer/NSIS can display correctly.
The language selector should just be for testing. It will be removed later on if it appears the auto-detection works properly.

EDIT - updated with some modifications


i saw the mail just few minutes ago.
so i confirmed about language part of setup installer. everything fine in Korean
but, i had missed one word translation 'next' -> '다음' in korean.
so i changed that in translator page at this time.
sorry for latest changing

[yaper]

hm odd. It should remember the installation language and use it during the uninstaller. Not sure why that didn't work for you.

Right now I tested the latest version, and unistaller is showing text in Polish. :thumbsup:

[crazed dodgem]

Installed fine for me on Win7 32Bit

Perhaps, when this is fully implemented it would be a good idea to try and update Xfire to search in the default install location, as whenever i've installed LFS i've had to manually fetch the .exe to get Xfire to recognise it

[Victor]

Installed fine for me on Win7 32Bit

Perhaps, when this is fully implemented it would be a good idea to try and update Xfire to search in the default install location, as whenever i've installed LFS i've had to manually fetch the .exe to get Xfire to recognise it

Xfire could look up the LFS install location in the registry under HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/Live for Speed/

[Fire_optikz001]

Xfire could look up the LFS install location in the registry under HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/Live for Speed/
well in the c:/Games is the defailt dir. for it so i dont see why it needs to be changed

[Ripley]

Works ok in Italian, but I've noticed some mistakes with the translation.
For example:

"Per usare questo software, devi accettare le seguenti condizioni :"
should be
"Per usare questo software, deve accettare le seguenti condizioni:"....
C'mon...You're not talking to your 80years old Aunt anyway!!
Are you sure it should really sound that formal??

Otherwise Devs should also change the installer splash screen text, where it reads:

"Questo programma ti guiderà durante il processo di installazione..."
into
"Questo programma la guiderà durante il processo di installazione..."


Edit1: for non-italians the difference spotted by freddyalek is between the "friendly" you and the "polite" you (singular).
The former is found in unformal speech, or directed to friends, relatives, buddies, whatever. The latter is a kind of respect you show towards unknown people, elder people, Not-LFSers in general... :)


Edit2: OTOH, on the License Agreement page, I'd change:

- Alcuni altri funzionali ma non completi possono essere inclusi in modo da variegare il contenuto del simulatore
INTO
- Alcuni altri, funzionali ma non completi, possono essere inclusi in modo da variare il contenuto del simulatore

- Installi e usi questo software a proprio rischio.
INTO
- Installa e usa questo software a tuo proprio rischio.

- Non devi cercare di guadagnare l'accesso ai contenuti bloccati, o aiutare qualcun altro a fare ciò, se non comprando una licenza e usando la schermata di sblocco all'interno del gioco.
INTO
- Non devi cercare di accedere ai contenuti bloccati, o aiutare qualcun altro a fare ciò, se non comprando una licenza e usando la schermata di sblocco all'interno del gioco.

[Garam]

Ho riguardato il testo della licenza e l'ho messo apposto...



Then, in the end, there's:

"Prego cliccare il pulsante verde "accetto" per continuare, o il pulsante rosso "esci" se non accetta."
which means
"Please click the green (?) button "Agree" to continue, or the red (?) button "Exit" if you don't agree."
and then should be
"Prego cliccare il pulsante "Accetto" per continuare o il pulsante "Annulla" per non accettare."

Questa parte però non la trovo proprio, devo essere scemo stasera O_o

[Flame CZE]

I found a similar problem to the one above.

In the Czech license agreement in this paragraph there are missing the S numbers (there should be "...uživatelům s S1 a S2 licencí" etc.:
DEMO obsah je přístupný všem, zdarma. UZAMČENÝ S a S obsah je přístupný pouze uživatelům s S a S licencí.
And also here's badly copied text - "click on the red button" etc. The last paragraph should be like this:

Pokud s výše uvedenými podmínkami souhlasíte, klikněte prosím na tlačítko "souhlasím". V případě nesouhlasu s výše uvedenými podmínkami prosím klikněte na tlačítko "storno".

I said "the last", because I think the last Czech agreement paragraph should be removed from there, because it's a note about the Czech language which is still under development etc. (It starts with "Poznámka překladatelů").

[Scawen]

I found a similar problem to the one above.

In the Czech license agreement in this paragraph there are missing the S numbers (there should be "...uživatelům s S1 a S2 licencí" etc.:In fact there should be no mention of S1 or S2 licenses. This license agreement should not need changing when we add the S3 license.

The help.txt section about licenses should read :

- The DEMO content is given to all people to use, free of charge. The LOCKED content is for appropriately licensed users only. You must not make any attempt to gain access to the locked content, or help anyone else to do so, other than by purchasing a license and using the in-game unlocking screen.


Request : Please could all translators check the /agreement section of the help text if you have not done so already. In the past there was text about LFS being ALPHA (now we say LFS is in continual development) we mentioned DEATH as one of the things we are not responsible for (now we only mention personal injury) and there was text about which button to click (that is not there any more). Thank you for your help on this, the agreement section is now more important because it's used in the installer as well and is the first thing that new LFS users will see.

The full text of the /agreement section is :

Welcome to Live for Speed!

In order to use this software, you must agree to the following :

- Live for Speed is in continual development. Features may be added, updated or removed at any time. Some functional but incomplete features may be included in order to enhance the variety and content of the simulator.

- This software comes with no warranties of any kind.

- You install and use this software at your own risk. The developers of Live for Speed can not accept any responsibility for personal injury or damage to your computer system that may arise during the use of the software.

- The DEMO content is given to all people to use, free of charge. The LOCKED content is for appropriately licensed users only. You must not make any attempt to gain access to the locked content, or help anyone else to do so, other than by purchasing a license and using the in-game unlocking screen.

Thank you.

[Ripley]

Request : Please could all translators check the /agreement section of the help text if you have not done so already.
Italian check PASSED ! :thumb:

(http://italia.blog.nimbuzz.com/files/2009/10/approved-300x300.gif)

[Velociround]

Request : Please could all translators check the /agreement section of the help text if you have not done so already.

Brazilian Portuguese translation passed. Everything is correctly translated and up-to-date: meaning, syntax, spelling and grammar.

[THE WIZARD DK]

Works with danish language. all associations are correctly applied. but when i should choose path. it says "dan" where other games say "opret" in danish. it kinda means the same wbut then again not quite. ppl will know what to do in danish so i dont see it as a problem, more a formality.

When clicking at the end of installation on the link: if you havent got lfs s2 yet!!! i clicked and link works. but when im in the order page i get this (screenshot) in the language selection.??? (a little off topic i know) as you can see its impossible to decode what those languages are... marked with a blue line.

Otherwise, everything worked like a glove. :thumb:

[Victor]

That means you're missing some language support on your computer.
http://www.google.nl/#hl=nl&source=hp&q=windows+installing+asian+languages&btnG=Google+zoeken&meta=&aq=f&oq=windows+installing+asian+languages&fp=ce6ac19a5642170f

Thanks for checking the translations.

[Flame CZE]

Request : Please could all translators check the /agreement section of the help text if you have not done so already.
Czech agreement has been updated too. :thumbsup:

[Radekteam]

I've tested the installer on 3 PCs (WinXp, Win7, Win2000) and looks ok for me. I haven't noticed any bugs in translation or any problems with files instalation.

Great work devs :D

[Oliv76000]

Hi,
in the french version, I have an error message at the end of the installation when i launch the shortcut on the desktop or in the Start Menu : Could not open file : data\skins\HEL_DEFAULT.jpg

Thanks for job

[Victor]

the installer was just a test containing only a few files. It doesn't include any game data files. (it's just 1.16 mb ;) )

[Shotglass]

im starting to see the point in going with an installer :p

[morpha]

im starting to see the point in going with an installer :p

I still think educating the masses by having them go through the mindblowingly complicated process of extracting a self-extracting 7z is the better approach. Although for a product such as LFS, the installer probably is a good thing.

[Starbert]

We may keep a 7zip available for download btw for those die hards amongst you :p But it won't be on the regular downloads page.

That would be very nice!!:thumb::)

[Victor]

Hopefully final test : http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=63410

closing this thread.