where have all the LFS players gone ?

[dorikick]

compared to 4,3 years ago there appears to be less servers in North America. quite often i end up not playing online because theres no suitable server to play in. all the servers seem to be europe and latin america.

also i hear S3 is coming ? is that just to get another track ? kinda sucks we have to keep paying for new content each time. LFS would get a lot bigger if they just opened it up (like track editing tools)....remaining closed source is going backwards in modern development trends...

[farcar]

I'd imagine most people are waiting for the patch.

I'm in the process of buying a house and selling my apartment, so my stuff's been packed away for a while. Hopefully when I move and unpack, there will be a shiny new patch waiting for me. I'll spend some time online then.:nod:

Don't bother about the closed source argument. It's been had many time before and like it or not, that's how LFS is.
(I like it by the way...)

[510N3D]

compared to 4,3 years ago there appears to be less servers in North America. quite often i end up not playing online because theres no suitable server to play in. all the servers seem to be europe and latin america.

also i hear S3 is coming ? is that just to get another track ? kinda sucks we have to keep paying for new content each time. LFS would get a lot bigger if they just opened it up (like track editing tools)....remaining closed source is going backwards in modern development trends...

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=61941

Maybe this is just the place for you in order to get some action.

[Bob Smith]

kinda sucks we have to keep paying for new content each time.
I'd hardly say you're paying for content each time, look how many cars have been added to existing licences for no extra charge. Would you prefer if content was free and patches were charged for? I hear Vic is quite the botanist but hasn't yet managed to create the money tree, thus the devs will have to remain charging for something in the foreseeable future.

[southamptonfc]

And why does nobody race anymore, most servers are just people doing quali or practice, soooo boring

[Dajmin]

The OP started out alright, but went off at a bit of a "I want stuff for nothing" tangent.

We're not charged to play online, we're not charged for the skin uploading or downloading, we're not charged for the amazing LFSW service. We've had a range of new stuff added to existing licenses that hasn't cost us a single red cent.

Treading old ground here, but the price of LFS is still way under what you'd pay for a regular game, and those have no fixed plans for the future beyond releasing a sequel to get your cash again. For example, NFS:Shift has been out a couple of months and they're already working on the next one. Each one around £40 here in the UK.

I'm sure the 360 and PS3 fans would be happy if Forza and GT supported modding too, but they don't. You pay full price for what the developers give you. Nobody is forcing you to spend anything.

[GianniC]

And why does nobody race anymore, most servers are just people doing quali or practice, soooo boring

Not LFS, Devs or game faults, but your fault. Maybe you race on the wrong hours ? Hang out with the wrong people ? Find a (better) team ? Participate in more leagues ?

I'm having no problem at all to find good (occasional) racing :thumb:

[Fetzo]

Not LFS, Devs or game faults, but your fault. Maybe you race on the wrong hours ? Hang out with the wrong people ? Find a (better) team ? Participate in more leagues ?

I'm having no problem at all to find good (occasional) racing :thumb:

it's his fault, that he lives in another timezone, on another continent than you? :really:

[GianniC]

it's his fault, that he lives in another timezone, on another continent than you? :really:

No matter what your timezone is, you can still choose when you race. For example if you prefer watching football on tv and therefor not race on a moment when the servers are more crowded but he do races ahead of the football match when people are still at work or school, then it is his "fault" indeed and not the "fault" of LFS, the Devs, patches or other. See what I try to say ? 24 hours in a day, no matter what your timezone is. I'm also staying up later than I normally would, simply to race with teammates. I can decide not to do that and then complain in the teamforum that I never see them online (which is comparable to what he's doing here).

And the 'paying for content' stuff is completely wrong. I payed £36 I believe for S2 around 3 years ago ? I'm still playing and enjoying LFS. That's different than for example the 100 euros for a year of iRacing (or the 7,90 euros for one cinema ticket).

[geeman1]

No matter what your timezone is, you can still choose when you race.That's true if you are unemployed or not going to school. The peak hours for LFS are when it's evening in Europe. Which means the peak hours in America are in the middle of the day. Most people are at work/school around that time.
Also there is lag to consider, the lag is quite big when playing from across the pond.

[southamptonfc]

Not LFS, Devs or game faults, but your fault. Maybe you race on the wrong hours ? Hang out with the wrong people ? Find a (better) team ? Participate in more leagues ?

I'm having no problem at all to find good (occasional) racing :thumb:


Maybe you have no life?

[Sir moi 407]

You have to be honest... The LFS community is really not in it's best shape and yea it's because of the patch delay. People lost motivation because they are waiting for the patch...
Just compare the 16Hours one year ago and this year (97 cars in 2008, 77 in 2009)
But when the patch will come with New Physics, New interiors (probably), Scirocco, Another new car and Rockingham, the LFS community will grow again :)
That's just how LFS works ;)

[e.M]

You have to be honest... The LFS community is really not in it's best shape and yea it's because of the patch delay. People lost motivation because they are waiting for the patch...
Just compare the 16Hours one year ago and this year (97 cars in 2008, 77 in 2009)
But when the patch will come with New Physics, New interiors (probably), Scirocco, Another new car and Rockingham, the LFS community will grow again :)
That's just how LFS works ;)
dont know if what u said is true but it was beautifull speach :D

[obsolum]

Maybe you have no life?
Just because he says he has no problem finding good racing you assume he has no life? Pathetic, much? There is plenty of good racing to be found.

[StableX]

it'll pick up once the patch/S3 comes out :thumbsup:

[Dajmin]

That's the way it goes across the entire net. I bet more people pick up Halo 3 or Gears of War every time they release a new map pack or address a balance issue. I bet Dawn of War 2 multiplayer picked up when they released the Last Stand mode.
Then it'll tail off again.

It's CIRCLLLLLLLLLLLLLLE of LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFE :)

[RasmusL]

I don't feel like driving LFS a lot currently with the upcoming new physics. I'm on occasionally though, but yeah I'm from Europe so :D

[GianniC]

Maybe you have no life?
I have no life cause I stay up one hour later on some weekdays for good racing ?
How do you come to this conclusion kiddo ? :really:

And really, blaming the lack of patches or updates for not racing is incredibly morronic. But I guess this is part of the younger generations, eyecandy, updates and new toys is all they care
Quit complaining and making completely faulty arguments.

The LFS community is really not in it's best shape and yea it's because of the patch delay.
about. What about having fun with what you have ? Isn't that good enough already ? How many of those complaining about the "lack of updates that's why I do not race" have decently tryed ALL the LFS availlable cars ? How many of you have done races at FE Black Rev (to name a track) ? How many of you have even tryed controlling the LX6 ? Ect....

Wrong, if for one reason the LFS Community is not in it's best shape it is all because of the community.

First of all, why wouldn't you race or have fun without a new patch ?
Secondly, patch delay ? What delay ? Cause the kiddo's around here got overly exited about the VW ? Get mature, that happens in every game. Let the Devs do their work and stop ruining OUR community with YOUR nonsense.

Back in S1 we had 6 track layouts and 3 cars; and the community was great and large. But you people's attitude these days, that's whats wrong. Unthankfull kiddo's who can't focus on something and keep for a longer term playing with it. It's like those kids who lay on the floor in the supermarket crying why they don't get the latest Mega Mindy action doll, despite already have a dozen of dolls at home. Going a bit off-topic, but please... Get lost with your patch whining and blaming everything on that. This is a sim racing community, this is a hardcore, low numbered and close group of people. Go fix your attitude, patch or not has nothing to do with LFS. And if you so badly need patches and eyecandy; then LFS is not the quality racing simulator for you. Go play one of EA's games then, but at least stop polluting our community and forum with your idiot nonsense.

I'm looking forward to the new tyre psychics and a possible change in the damage model, and hopefuly the VW and Rockingham get delayed for another year (in the hope that the kids who can't wait go away and we can have our sim racing communtiy back, with some decent high standard).

End rant, thank you.

[-NightFly-]

compared to 4,3 years ago...
dorikick (http://www.lfsforum.net/member.php?u=262260) S2 licensed

Join Date: Nov 2008

it's just a bit wierd to see threads like this from people who has completed only 12 races...

[Vain]

Just to add to the picture: I am closely (read: daily) following the progress of development and try out every test patch using a gamecontroller, but my wheel is in the basement waiting to be unpacked once the new patch comes out.
I imagin that there's a good chunk of the community that treats LFS similarly.

Vain

[peterules]

Nope, I play everyday and don't worry about new patchs,cars,tracks etc etc. I just enjoy what i have now (Z20) and learn new stuff all the time.

Stress kills over 50% of people every year.. hahah

[AutoPilot]

Quit complaining and making completely faulty arguments.

Well, it started with your faulty argument: "Not LFS, Devs or game faults, but your fault. Maybe you race on the wrong hours?" and "No matter what your timezone is, you can still choose when you race."

Because of work, the earliest I can race on weekdays is about 7pm, and that's assuming I don't have dinner after work, 8pm-ish is more reasonable. I'm 6 hours behind Europe, so that's 1-2am. You can check on lfsworld what is the number of racers at that time. Most of the time, if I filter out drift/cruise/demo/oval servers, there will be a couple of servers with more than 3 people. Even AS3/GTR has like 5-10 people tops. These are the only hours I can race, so tell me, how do I choose the right hours to race?? Are you seriously suggesting that I should quit a job I like just because of what is ultimately a computer game?

Wrong, if for one reason the LFS Community is not in it's best shape it is all because of the community.
Isn't that exactly what the OP is asking? Where are the lfs players that make up this community?

[Sir moi 407]

And really, blaming the lack of patches or updates for not racing is incredibly morronic. But I guess this is part of the younger generations, eyecandy, updates and new toys is all they care
Quit complaining and making completely faulty arguments.


about. What about having fun with what you have ? Isn't that good enough already ? How many of those complaining about the "lack of updates that's why I do not race" have decently tryed ALL the LFS availlable cars ? How many of you have done races at FE Black Rev (to name a track) ? How many of you have even tryed controlling the LX6 ? Ect....

Wrong, if for one reason the LFS Community is not in it's best shape it is all because of the community.

First of all, why wouldn't you race or have fun without a new patch ?
Secondly, patch delay ? What delay ? Cause the kiddo's around here got overly exited about the VW ? Get mature, that happens in every game. Let the Devs do their work and stop ruining OUR community with YOUR nonsense.

Back in S1 we had 6 track layouts and 3 cars; and the community was great and large. But you people's attitude these days, that's whats wrong. Unthankfull kiddo's who can't focus on something and keep for a longer term playing with it. It's like those kids who lay on the floor in the supermarket crying why they don't get the latest Mega Mindy action doll, despite already have a dozen of dolls at home. Going a bit off-topic, but please... Get lost with your patch whining and blaming everything on that. This is a sim racing community, this is a hardcore, low numbered and close group of people. Go fix your attitude, patch or not has nothing to do with LFS. And if you so badly need patches and eyecandy; then LFS is not the quality racing simulator for you. Go play one of EA's games then, but at least stop polluting our community and forum with your idiot nonsense.

I'm looking forward to the new tyre psychics and a possible change in the damage model, and hopefuly the VW and Rockingham get delayed for another year (in the hope that the kids who can't wait go away and we can have our sim racing communtiy back, with some decent high standard).

End rant, thank you.

So for you people that are bored of LFS are:
morrons, kids, immature, noobs...

You have more?

Loosing motivation because of a patch delay is perfectly normal ;)

[Dalek0220]

Since the FBM arrived, I noticed a large lack of active servers running the AS2/FOX combo. Instead, the BL1/FBM combo.

Since I obtained my S2 license, there were hardly any active F08 servers, but rather the BF1 at Aston National (Which I had no problem with, I was just very unexperienced).

The BF1's popularity also fell when the FBM arrived.

Then I got pissed off, and wandered off somewhere.

Meh, Rockingham's coming soon, and I'll be pre-paid soon, so you do the math--a new car, a new track, every server running it.

[Sir moi 407]

There are alot of leagues running with all cars and all tracks in LFS ;)

[th84]

Just to add to the picture: I am closely (read: daily) following the progress of development and try out every test patch using a gamecontroller, but my wheel is in the basement waiting to be unpacked once the new patch comes out.
I imagin that there's a good chunk of the community that treats LFS similarly.

Vain

:nod:

[GianniC]

So for you people that are bored of LFS are:
morrons, kids, immature, noobs...
If they also say that I have no life because I friendly propose them to try to log in on a different hour if possible, then yes. ;)

Well, it started with your faulty argument: "Not LFS, Devs or game faults, but your fault. Maybe you race on the wrong hours?" and "No matter what your timezone is, you can still choose when you race."

Because of work, the earliest I can race on weekdays is about 7pm, and that's assuming I don't have dinner after work, 8pm-ish is more reasonable. I'm 6 hours behind Europe, so that's 1-2am. You can check on lfsworld what is the number of racers at that time. Most of the time, if I filter out drift/cruise/demo/oval servers, there will be a couple of servers with more than 3 people. Even AS3/GTR has like 5-10 people tops. These are the only hours I can race, so tell me, how do I choose the right hours to race?? Are you seriously suggesting that I should quit a job I like just because of what is ultimately a computer game?

First of all, my argument is not wrong.
Secondly, look, my friendly advice of "change your online time" is possible when the difference of timezone is less large. Obviously in your case this is not possible (which I did not knew nor bothered to look up). Or short put; sucks to be you. You can always try putting up a league yourself or look for a national community forum; where you can get in touch with other racers in your timezone. Or tell your friends (and those friends their friends, ect) to get LFS. ;)

Isn't that exactly what the OP is asking?

No, what I said is nowhere near the same of what the opening poster stated.

[AutoPilot]

First of all, my argument is not wrong.
Secondly, look, my friendly advice of "change your online time" is possible when the difference of timezone is less large. Obviously in your case this is not possible (which I did not knew nor bothered to look up). Or short put; sucks to be you. The OP is Canadian and mentions North America. 6 hours behind is the US Eastern coast time and the smallest time difference except for some distant Canadian provinces. All the 48 contiguous US states are within 6-9 hours as well as most of Canada. So to whom exactly in N. America does your friendly advice go to if 6 hours is too large a difference?

[GianniC]

How about stop nitpicking and trying to get yourself an internet discussion going ?

For the OP: Try here, it's even on page one of this section (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=61941). See what I mean, do some more effort before blaming the so called lack of updates and other nonsense.

Gosh, some of you people know how to make people pissed :D

[DeadWolfBones]

It does seem that lately (the last two or three years) the emphasis in LFS has moved from pick-up racing to league racing, which means that many of the public servers are now dedicated to practice for private-server league races. I don't really mind this since I do league racing almost exclusively, but I can imagine it's frustrating for those who just want to race at any given hour.

[The Very End]

There are people around, but many veterans are not around anymore. A new patch makes it better tho :)

The trick is to think new, try something fresh in LFS. There are allways something going on.

[AndroidXP]

Just to add to the picture: I am closely (read: daily) following the progress of development and try out every test patch using a gamecontroller, but my wheel is in the basement waiting to be unpacked once the new patch comes out.
I imagin that there's a good chunk of the community that treats LFS similarly.

Vain
Yep, that's me.

My last online race was Sept '08, though that was just a mini-session with danowat and Bean0. A few more proper races were held in '07 but I mainly stopped doing regular races after '06. I'm simply most interested in LFS' physics aspects, and while they certainly haven't gotten worse since then, there weren't any significant improvements either. At some point after following LFS for so long (it's 7 years already - I'm getting old), it got simply too frustrating to see the same bogus setups and the same gung-ho driving style year after year without anything being done about it. It took the realization that the current physics engine cannot make a *real* car work like it's supposed to to get things moving again, which is kind of sad. At the same time this is however also the first ray of hope that could get me going again since a long time, so I'll keep my fingers crossed while waiting for the patch (that I wouldn't expect earlier than Christmas, tbh) :)

[bunder9999]

(that I wouldn't expect earlier than Christmas 2010, tbh) :)

fixed for you... :razz::thumbsup:

[AutoPilot]

How about stop nitpicking and trying to get yourself an internet discussion going ? :D I'm trying to explain to you that your argument does not stand for the majority of North Americans from a point of someone who is directly affected by that. That's all, I'm not nitpicking nor trying to start a debate, no need to get so defensive...

[obsolum]

Loosing motivation because of a patch delay is perfectly normal ;)
I don't understand that. What would happen then if the devs called it quits after releasing the next patch? Would all those people just stop playing LFS altogether after the novelty of the new track and cars had worn off? Do they need something new every 6 months to keep them interested? If so, that's sad.

[geeman1]

Many people are like that.

[Sir moi 407]

The main reason why people lost motivation is because they thought there was going to be patch, so they were happy with this perspective and then it got delayed.
The fact that we are all expepting for a good update since August 2008 (when we knew the Scirocco was going to be added) is making some people bored and that's perfectly normal (and the fact that patch Z wasn't a major update TBH).
It is not sad, it is not happy, it's just how things work.
When the patch will come, people will gain motivation again because this time we will get a LOT of updates!

@GianniC
You don't seem to know that alot of respected and respectful drivers left LFS because they were simply bored...
They didn't complain about anything, they were not noobs, and certainly not kids.
Because when I read your post, it looks like your insulting people just because they are bored of the game :really:

Now let's just wait for the update to see the LFS community living again :)

[IlGuercio]

Maybe you have no life?
Then whose fault is it?
All we gotta blame the sun,that's it.

[birder]

I think that a lot of racers are trying other sims and other games.

The CD team has waited for this way overdue update for so long that we (like a lot of others) just dont bother with LFS.

Many are racing Brands Hatch, Cadwell Park and other track on other sims.

I pay for 8 LFS servers that are open to all yet I have not been on them for weeks, these run out in November and i shall not renew them, after all i can use the 500 other empty ones.

Its such a pity that the devs just do not listen to the regulars and those who "want" to use LFS but the fact is they dont, and gamers will only stand being bored for a short time.

I think a regular update, say every 3 months would keep LFS fresh but i am sorry to say its dead at the moment.

I for one would pay for more content.

LFS is by the easiest Sim out there (to use that is) but the content is just so out of date, something i hope will change but i doubt it.

[geeman1]

Well, you can't just make patches appear from thin air. I am sure the devs are not intentionally delaying the patches.

Besides just look at other games. It's very rare there even is content patches after the initial release.

[shiny_red_cobra]

3-4 years ago LFS was getting more updates, more content, and more attention. Now it's been the same for at least the past 2-3 years, except we got all of 1 new car (FBM), so people are getting bored of the same old thing, and are moving on to new things. This would be ok normally, but since it seems like LFS development has slowed down a lot in the past year (just my opinion), it seems like there are fewer new users than we used to get in past years. Like when patch X and Y were released I remember we got a whole bunch of new users, but nowadays there's the same old group. We need new stuff in LFS, it's the only way people will come back to it!

geeman - other games have a ton more content when they are released, don't tell me Gran Turismo has only 20-something cars and 5 track environments...

[geeman1]

geeman - other games have a ton more content when they are released, don't tell me Gran Turismo has only 20-something cars and 5 track environments...Gran Turismos development team is huge compared to LFS' development team.
Not all games have huge amount of content.

[Cue-Ball]

I don't understand that. What would happen then if the devs called it quits after releasing the next patch? Would all those people just stop playing LFS altogether after the novelty of the new track and cars had worn off? Do they need something new every 6 months to keep them interested? If so, that's sad.What's wrong with wanting a new challenge every now and then? Many people have been playing LFS, essentially unchanged, for 4+ years now. Sure, we get a new car or track layout every now and then, but many of them simply aren't appealing. If you don't like F1 (I don't) and you aren't fond of FWD cars (I'm not), then the last new car and the upcoming new car are essentially worthless.

Let's also not forget that laps in LFS are basically always the same. Other than the wind option, there's no real change in the tracks...ever. Go drive a lap on Blackwood with the XRT today. Do it again tomorrow. Do it again a month from now. It's always going to be the same experience. There are no air or track temperature changes, no real reason for tire changes, no formation of a racing line, no marbles, no shadows, no wetness, no oil spills, no tarmac resurfacing, etc. If you manage to stick with a car and track long enough to perfect your technique, then where do you go from there? You can't modify your car or move up to the next league since there are no car modifications in LFS (not necessarily a bad thing, I'm just sayin') and there's no "career" mode or anything like that.

I'm a huge fan of LFS. I think it's the best racing sim on the market, hands-down. But that doesn't mean that it can hold my attention indefinitely. As good as it is, some of us need *something* new to keep our interest. Hell, even banging Christie Brinkley gets old eventually (just ask Billy Joel).

I check this forum at least once a week, and almost daily when test patches are actively being worked on...hoping to see something new and fantastic to suck me back into the game. The new tire physics sound promising, but to be honest, I doubt it will keep me entertained for more than a few weeks. When Forza 3 was previewed at E3 I thought it would completely replace LFS for me, but it seems Turn10 has cocked that up - so I'll probably be back to LFS for at least a little while. But, just like most people, the infatuation will likely be fairly short lived until Scawen and company add something new and cause me to dust off my driving wheel once again.

[bunder9999]

You can't modify your car or move up to the next league since there are no car modifications in LFS

bob's nascar mod had a league (I-SCAR), but it recently folded. :shrug:

[Bmxtwins]

if you want nascar get NR2003 or Nascar heat (free) both are very good, this is road courses :)

[legoflamb]

I think the most fun times in LFS are around the incompatible test patch times, around the release of the next full patch. It is really funny watching people compete to get into 3 full servers. Then try to get a race past turn one with 32 cars on grid! :D

I can hardly wait! Its going to be fun, I just hope everybody is not driving the Sirocco.

[The Very End]

I think the most fun times in LFS are around the incompatible test patch times, around the release of the next full patch. It is really funny watching people compete to get into 3 full servers. Then try to get a race past turn one with 32 cars on grid! :D

I can hardly wait! Its going to be fun, I just hope everybody is not driving the Sirocco.

BIG +1, I agree!

But looking forward to 32 cars racing again :)

[510N3D]

Let's also not forget that laps in LFS are basically always the same. Other than the wind option, there's no real change in the tracks...ever. Go drive a lap on Blackwood with the XRT today. Do it again tomorrow. Do it again a month from now. It's always going to be the same experience. There are no air or track temperature changes, no real reason for tire changes, no formation of a racing line, no marbles, no shadows, no wetness, no oil spills, no tarmac resurfacing, etc. If you manage to stick with a car and track long enough to perfect your technique, then where do you go from there? You can't modify your car or move up to the next league since there are no car modifications in LFS (not necessarily a bad thing, I'm just sayin') and there's no "career" mode or anything like that.

As much as i do agree with you on the dynamic track conditions, we shall not forget patch Y at this point. Blackwood also was very different back in S1.


I'm a huge fan of LFS. I think it's the best racing sim on the market, hands-down. But that doesn't mean that it can hold my attention indefinitely. As good as it is, some of us need *something* new to keep our interest. Hell, even banging Christie Brinkley gets old eventually (just ask Billy Joel).

A game is there to be played and entertain you for some time, not to fill a gap or replace parts of your life (forever). Some people really don't understand that, when they play a game for a (considerably) long time, that they will get bored eventually. Simple by looking at the informations that we've got available, it should be _clearly_ visible that LFS is different to anything else and thus will be developed, or respectively the speed of development differs drastically from most of the other products that are available. That obviously doesn't mean that this product is worth less, but quite the opposite indeed.

Best examples are EA games, where games are getting developed by a huge crowd of people in a rush, with the ultimate goal to sell as much copies as possible. Right after that, this cycle gets "restarted" and soon after that, you will have to pay another 40+ bugs. Soon ripe, soon rotten, if you will.

...I doubt it will keep me entertained for more than a few weeks. When Forza 3 was previewed at E3 I thought it would completely replace LFS for me, but it seems

Now that's a bit contradicting right here. As a huge fan of LFS, you're seeking for something to replace LFS for you completely? Really, I do get it, you're bored, pissed off and whatever, but seriously, take a few more steps back and try and get a grasp for what LFS really is.

I think the most fun times in LFS are around the incompatible test patch times, around the release of the next full patch. It is really funny watching people compete to get into 3 full servers. Then try to get a race past turn one with 32 cars on grid!



I can hardly wait! Its going to be fun, I just hope everybody is not driving the Sirocco.

+1 ;)

[jaykay3000]

uni work, broken toe and playing the updated forgotten hope ww2 mod for battlefield 2 (which was free and had un paid contributors)

i love battlefield 2 but that dont mean I can spend all my time on it. I love lots of other stuff too. Drinking, eating, women. But no matter how fun something is, if it's always the same it tends to get boring. If all your woman does is sit around watching tv, wont have sex and says nothing then she becomes boring. If I do the same thing every day then life becomes boring.

lfs like everything needs to change in order for it to stay fresh and interesting.

lfs is not a bad game but for people who have played it a lot they have lost interest. It's just human nature and there is no point doing something 'just because I feel I have to', if it's not fun for you then why play.

If you read this then perhaps you have lost interest too or your at work :D

Topics like this are funny, A) I waste my time writing philosiphical crap and B) People will probably be pleasantly supprised when the patch comes out.

But for me... patch,patch,patch,patch,patch,patch,patch,patch,pa tch,patch,patch,patch,patch,patch.

[Cue-Ball]

Now that's a bit contradicting right here. As a huge fan of LFS, you're seeking for something to replace LFS for you completely? Really, I do get it, you're bored, pissed off and whatever, but seriously, take a few more steps back and try and get a grasp for what LFS really is.I'm a fan of LFS, as I said, but that doesn't make me any less bored. I also love House, M.D., but I'm not going to rewatch the same eight episodes day after day for four years.

Everyone gets bored eventually, and needs something new to relight their fire. It's pretty obvious that new cars, new tracks, and physics changes do this for LFS. The last major patch (Z) was over a year ago (July '08), and it didn't include new cars, new tracks, or major physics changes. The last time anything of the sort happened was in December of '07 (Patch Y) - almost two years ago. I personally welcomed the physics changes, but couldn't care less about the BMW. The last patch that I remember really, truly being excited about was Patch X in June of '07.

I'm not saying that LFS needs to develop faster (though I think most everyone here would enjoy it if that happened). I'm not saying that the devs owe me (or anyone else) anything. I'm simply saying that I'm bored of LFS. The upcoming physics changes will probably bring me back into the fold for a few months, but without new cars, new tracks, or substantial additions to the race experience, I'm sure I'll be feeling this same way again a year from now.

[Kandis]

I have bought the license, to find more good servers to play, but there is just 2 or 3 at all :( There is mainly dirft and drag servers wich I hate and demo servers.I have never driven the XRT in Blackwood since I bought the license. I have never seen any LX4/ LX6 server :shrug:

[RMachucaA]

Being one of the first to be in LFS... i've seen its evolution get slower...and slower... and slower... im at a point where im expecting updates to start going backwards and removing features :P, ashes to ashes so to speak.

[The Very End]

Oh my GOD! It's the ghost of the XRT!!!

[510N3D]

Being one of the first to be in LFS... i've seen its evolution get slower...and slower... and slower... im at a point where im expecting updates to start going backwards and removing features :P, ashes to ashes so to speak.


Same here, although I've been a demo user for more then a year. From the user perspective, I do understand your disappointment, but from the perspective of a semi experienced programer, I quite frankly don't. Tell me, when was the last time that you have created a complex project like this, which got easier to handle and work with, the further you've progressed? Seriously, going through all the changes that have been made in LFS in the past few years, which can be looked up in each readme file by the way, I'm getting a headache already, only while trying to _imagine_ how difficult it must be, not only to create all this, but to work with it, adding new stuff and fixing or rewriting certain parts of it. Perhaps I'm wrong, and it is infact rather easy to handle though. Always depends on the structure in use I guess. Still, it's complexity suggests that it isn't. :shrug: Either way, my question to you remains valid.

[Sticky-Micky]

LFS has become stale.


I first played the demo at around the S1 phase


It is almost a grind to race around the same old tracks, with the same old graphics, in the same old cars, doing the same old laptimes as you have raced them all a million times before.


It needs massively revamped IMO

I believe it is the best SIM going, but sitting on laurels only leads to demise.

I had more fun completing NFS shift recently then i have had playing LFS in the past year, because it was something new, something fresh.

I have my copy of Shift here in the office at work, and will be trading it in against Forza3, and i suspect the hour or so i will be playing it later on, will be a right blast.

I could always fire up LFS, race the same old blahh blahh blahh

[Cue-Ball]

Tell me, when was the last time that you have created a complex project like this, which got easier to handle and work with, the further you've progressed? .... Either way, my question to you remains valid.While your question is valid, it has absolutely no bearing on the situation. A modern automobile is thousands of times more complex than a car from the 60's, but that doesn't mean that Ford can release a new vehicle every 20 years instead of every three and still expect to get customers.

It doesn't matter if LFS is the most complex program ever devised by man if progress is so slow that nobody bothers buying a license. I'm not saying we're at that point yet, as I've got no idea what license sales are like. But my guess is that things are probably rather slow right now, as far as sales are concerned - which might explain the announcement that we'll be moving on from S2 soon.

Of course, this isn't the first time the "LFS is getting stagnant" issue has come up in these forums, and it probably won't be the last. Scavier will do what they do, and as long as they can keep putting food on their tables I don't think they're bothered to much if we think development is slow.

[geeman1]

Of course, this isn't the first time the "LFS is getting stagnant" issue has come up in these forums, and it probably won't be the last. Scavier will do what they do, and as long as they can keep putting food on their tables I don't think they're bothered to much if we think development is slow.LFS is mostly the devs' pet project. They want to do it on their on terms. They are not selling it to make maximum amount of profit or wanting to make everyone happy. The devs want to do what they consider the perfect sim, if some one else likes it it's just a bonus.
They are only selling it so that they won't have to have another job.

[510N3D]

While your question is valid, it has absolutely no bearing on the situation. A modern automobile is thousands of times more complex than a car from the 60's, but that doesn't mean that Ford can release a new vehicle every 20 years instead of every three and still expect to get customers.

It doesn't matter if LFS is the most complex program ever devised by man if progress is so slow that nobody bothers buying a license. I'm not saying we're at that point yet, as I've got no idea what license sales are like. But my guess is that things are probably rather slow right now, as far as sales are concerned - which might explain the announcement that we'll be moving on from S2 soon.

Of course, this isn't the first time the "LFS is getting stagnant" issue has come up in these forums, and it probably won't be the last. Scavier will do what they do, and as long as they can keep putting food on their tables I don't think they're bothered to much if we think development is slow.

Bearing in mind that Scawen is basically the only person, that is responsible for the programming part, I don't see how anyone could seriously come to a conclusion that's including the idea about an accelerating progress, the further this project is evolving. :shrug:

[Cue-Ball]

Bearing in mind that Scawen is basically the only person, that is responsible for the programming part, I don't see how anyone could seriously come to a conclusion that's including the idea about an accelerating progress, the further this project is evolving. :shrug:I'm sure that this sim is a huge undertaking for just one programmer. But that means nothing if people stop buying licenses. No excuse in the world can make up for not having paying customers.

We still have LFS, and it's still being actively developed, so I think it's reasonable to assume that Scawen, Victor, etc. are making enough money to not have to go back to working for The Man just yet. However, it definitely seems to me that the number of users has fallen, and that the number of new users is almost nil. I suspect that's why there's a sudden push to get the next patch out the door and get people interested again (and likely move on to S3 shortly).

If it ever gets to the point that people are no longer buying licenses, then the devs will either have to change things to attract more users or go back to working "real jobs". I'm sure they would be just as unhappy about working for a big development house again as we would be about LFS development halting.

[IlGuercio]

The fact that almost half of the online players are demoer's should say it all.
Demoer's have too much content,maybe if they were forced to buy the game we could have a bit larger pool of users.
By the way,i don't think that 3 people can live with just a bunch of licenses and little more.Not taking in count the expenses that they could face.

[510N3D]

That's all _just_ based on assumptions and unless you ain't got any official numbers from the developers themselves, how can you seriously dare to create such statements?

Actually, I'm done here. This is leading nowhere, unless one of the dev's is making a statement though.

[Cue-Ball]

That's all _just_ based on assumptions and unless you ain't got any official numbers from the developers themselves, how can you seriously dare to create such statements?Go on lfsworld and look at the number of racers online for the last few years. The numbers increase around the time of each big patch, then drop off afterwards. So, while some of this is assumption and supposition, it's based upon factual numbers.

[510N3D]

Regardless of my previous comment really, I've been checking the number of players that are online almost daily, for the past few years though, and what I've seen was something about 1000 to 1300 players each day, and about 1500 to 2000, give or take a few hundret, after each patch. The percentage of demo users was about 30-40% each day, at least according to my observation.

[Sticky-Micky]

So basically what you are confirming, is that the game is treading water, instead of swimming further upstream ;)

[The Very End]

Either way, I having a blast racing now, so as long as there at least is one server for me to race on I am satisfied :p

[lizardfolk]

All this probably needs is to be put into perspective. With other Sims, the typical life span is actually very short in relation to LFS.

But in all honestly it's just the nature of gaming. Does GP4 or rFactor still enjoy the user traffic that they did when they first came out? I doubt it. Even NR2003 is pretty much gone with the exception of a few odd leagues.

The only reason why LFS is still relatively active is because of it's fantastic patches but of course as time moves on, people will start to expect more and I think that's very natural. (The fact that the recent patch is delayed doesnt help so the increased amount of complaints is natural as well)

I have no idea if LFS will even return to it's former glory or if it will just become another "dated" game in the eyes of the public among the likes of Anarchy Online, M.U.G.E.N., Super Mario War, Frets on Fire, rFactor, etc. (Which are or was in a similar situation that LFS' going through now)

But the first step to avoid that would definitely be to improve the system. The Scirocco and the Rock is a very nice addition. In fact, I'm eagerly awaiting the Rock's oval myself. But it's come to the point where I would gladly sacrifice all that just to have better contact system, fixed buggy barriers, better (not necessarily more complicated) immersive sounds (crashes, engines, etc), a damage system that is atleast remotely accurate to real life situations.

And of course, new environments and maybe a graphics update would be nice. This will attract more players.

I understand that the devs can do w/e they want and if they want to focus all of their efforts on that car and the Rock then fine. Finish it. But LFS's more glaring problem better be addressed if not in the next patch then the one after that. Or else LFS will become very stale and wither away. It's happened to just about every game except for the overly hyped ones like Counter-Strike or Starcraft but LFS is certainly not one of those games

[JeffR]

In my opinion, interest in racing games of all types peaked late 2005, early 2006, and has slowly diminished since then. Many of the older players have been playing games for over 10 years now, and the interest in gaming, especially online racing, has lost some of it's appeal.

In my case, I pretty much know where I rank based on hot lap times, so there isn't much point in going online to confirm what I already know. For new games, I'll go online to determine which cars are best (or best for a particular class), and to get setup info from other players, but then go back to hot lapping offline. Eventually this stuff gets posted in forums though.

For some games, like NR2003, a lot of people liked running Talledega and Daytona open server, fixed setup events, because just about anyone could win these as much skill wasn't required (all assists, including steering assists, could be enabled), but this also eventually lost it's appeal.

iRacing is new, but it's had to change it's format to allow quick advancement and lower it's prices in an effort to increase the number of players. Activity there is about 4,000 to 5,000 players that run at least on event per week. I don't know what the maximum number of players online at any one time to make a comparason with the stats shown at LFS World.

LFS still manages to have an unusually large number of online players, although since I'm in the USA, I don't see the level of activity that occurs in Europe.

As pointed out, the next patch for LFS will result in an increase in the number of online players, but I suspect that how long the increased activity after each one of these patches, is going to decrease over time for the same reason that overall interest in racing games seem to be diminishing.

[dorikick]

some good arguments here i see that im not alone in being unsatisfied with the currently quality of available servers and features.

first of all, why is there such such less availability of servers in north america ? Nobody really answered the question why this is the case. stupid answers like its your fault for living in North America is not the correct way to address the problem.

my point is that LFS is not moving forward well. Its managed by a few people, and cannot compete with other racing simulations out there which have now caught up to LFS's depth and realism to attract the mainstream market.

I respect the developer's vision but my main argument is that staying closed source in these times is a mistake.

[dorikick]

The OP started out alright, but went off at a bit of a "I want stuff for nothing" tangent.


I think you misunderstood. I wanted to illustrate that your business model must charge for any significant additional contents in the future. otherwise developer's will end up working for free. that is not just. Can you not see the disadvantage of remaining closed ?


We're not charged to play online, we're not charged for the skin uploading or downloading, we're not charged for the amazing LFSW service. We've had a range of new stuff added to existing licenses that hasn't cost us a single red cent.


You can absolutely charge for playing online. Opening LFS for modification (tracks, cars), can have tremendous impact on drawing new players. Not to mention if you go down the MMO route, you can charge people monthly.


Treading old ground here, but the price of LFS is still way under what you'd pay for a regular game, and those have no fixed plans for the future beyond releasing a sequel to get your cash again. For example, NFS:Shift has been out a couple of months and they're already working on the next one. Each one around £40 here in the UK.

It is underpriced from the developer's point of view, but not from consumer's view. It's expensive considering the little amount of cars available, and tracks and other modes of play. Additionally, assymetric multiplayer availability is more points down for a prospective buyer. Mention that it has been like this for the past 4 years, and there will be further disgust from the consumer. The numbers speak themselves: compare the sales for NFS, or other simulation franchises vs. LFS.


I'm sure the 360 and PS3 fans would be happy if Forza and GT supported modding too, but they don't. You pay full price for what the developers give you. Nobody is forcing you to spend anything.


They have real cars. LFS doesn't. They have at least over 100 different cars from real manufacturers.LFS doesn't.

I'm not arguing that LFS is ripping me off. Just highlighting some weak points that I think should have been addressed long ago. because LFS is a great simulator, one of the BEST (used to be the best), and I'd hate to see it deteriorating further.

[Bob Smith]

Can you not see the disadvantage of remaining closed ?
If you were pointing it out, I missed it.

You can absolutely charge for playing online. ... Not to mention if you go down the MMO route, you can charge people monthly.
I for one wouldn't pay monthly, unless it was ridiculously cheap. I think one sim going that route is enough for now. Although I admit I race in LFS very rarely, it's become more of a physics experimentation tool for me now.

It's expensive considering the little amount of cars available, and tracks and other modes of play.
Tracks I will agree with being short in quantity, cars not so much. People are just spoiled at having hundreds of cars these days. Even if LFS had all that, it will dilute online play far too much.

The numbers speak themselves: compare the sales for NFS, or other simulation franchises vs. LFS.
NFS is no way a meaningful comparison. Compare to NASCAR 2003, RBR or Grand Prix Legends to LFS, and we could draw some useful comparisons, although LFS does not have the conventional business model (i.e. sold in a shop) or advertising (other than word of mouth) that all those sims benefitted from.

They have real cars. LFS doesn't.
I'm sure this just an oversight on your part, but LFS does have 5 real cars. Not many, but a start, and I'd hope that number continues to rise as LFS evolves. Fictional content was clearly the only choice to begin with, but I see LFS moving further away from (new) fictional content as time progresses.

[dorikick]

how can dilution occur when there is no crowd to begin with , which is exactly the problem i am highlighting.

how can you expect a crowd when there is lagging number of feature points behind the rest of the competition

just my 2 cents.

[dorikick]

I'm sure this just an oversight on your part, but LFS does have 5 real cars. Not many, but a start, and I'd hope that number continues to rise as LFS evolves. Fictional content was clearly the only choice to begin with, but I see LFS moving further away from (new) fictional content as time progresses.

looking at past 4 years how many new cars have been added (real or not)

how many more can we expect in the next 4 years (if LFS survives or remains the same as it has been)

[theirishnoob]

compared to 4,3 years ago there appears to be less servers in North America. quite often i end up not playing online because theres no suitable server to play in. all the servers seem to be europe and latin america.

also i hear S3 is coming ? is that just to get another track ? kinda sucks we have to keep paying for new content each time. LFS would get a lot bigger if they just opened it up (like track editing tools)....remaining closed source is going backwards in modern development trends...

other new games have come out - or maybe sick of waiting for the patch.....


either way, lfs is rather out of fashion.

[Fordman]

WHere have we all gone, well no where really, we just don't race anymore. See what happened, was LFS used to be fun, fast, pick up, meat up with the reg drivers and you used to be able to have a general laugh day and night. Well in its strive to become "almost realistic" it lost alot of the pick races, then "fun" element of use older drivers. Not all of us can dedicate our time to leagues, Enduro etc etc, although i did in the past, sometimes people have to make a choice, and well this is what happens.

There are still a few of the "old school" regs around, but not many anymore, well not racing as they used to, and me being one of them. Why, well there was to many rules, to many regulations, so much server control, and not enough fun anymore, which is what LFS started out as, correct me if I am wrong.

Time was always going to be an issue with LFS, but us oldies that supported it, understood that great things take time, and we was willing to wait, but in the mean time, the strive for perfection, remove the strive for fun and enjoyment.

In my eyes, what started out as a fun and enjoyment project, has turned into a serious, over the top and to many rules Sim. How can you turn it into a serious project with non realistic cars ( ok bar a few ) and totally non realistic tracks, tracks that you would build in your loft using Scalextric's and expect people to say "wow this is realistic" how the hell should they know, if:

A: Never driven the car
B: Never driven on the track?

You have to pay for realism, track days etc etc, LFS had and I say "had" the market where it was almost real, but drivers respected each other, but in a fictional place. Now...god knows what happened, so....IMHO use dude's that joined many moons ago, loved having fun, don't anymore, hence your question, where have we gone, no where, we are still here, just cannot be bothered anymore.

[Wm. Peddle]

What I think happens is this, good young waves of gamers keep moving toward the new. The true drivers among them will come back to LFS.
Because it Rocks Worldwide!

[mathew4445]

What I think happens is this, good young waves of gamers keep moving toward the new. The true drivers among them will come back to LFS.
Because it Rocks Worldwide!

+1.

I've been with LFS since just before the release of S1, And sure i've had my breaks (not because I'm annoyed with slow patches, I don't really care if its updated or not, It's a great game right now and considering I havn't had to pay anything for the past 3 years with a huge amount of improvements since then, I'm bloody happy with it) but in the end, I've always come back to LFS because of how realistic the cars handle, and the good feeling every time you shave .10 off your pb.

And I can honestly say that since I started playing LFS, I have not put as much time into any other racing sim (I don't even play any others), And yes, I have played iRacing, Yes it's an awesome racing experience, I only had the oval pack but every race was very close (and thats with 30 drivers).

Back on topic, Well as you can see I'm australian, and I don't like racing in american servers because of the lag issues, So there is pretty much only one racing server for us (Which is ProRacingRoom, Great people race here, there's even a TS server where the host himself is always on + many people racing at the time), So quit complaining you only have 5 or 6 servers. Us aussies have 1. Deal with it.

[ChrisColeman]

Everyone in north america has been banned by Sam H from all the good servers. So everybody quit playing.

[bunder9999]

Everyone in north america has been banned by Sam H from all the good servers. So everybody quit playing.

just because you got banned (http://www.raceauthority.com/report_lookup.asp?ReportID=146) for account sharing... :really:

[pearcy_2k7]

Wanted a late night blast but there really is no servers, apart from 1 server the most playing online is 5 in S2. Ive even started going on demo just to get a decent race with a decent grid. IMO i shouldn't ever be finding myself going back to demo but i think its the hours im trying to play, i feel sorry for the yanks, LFS is dead for them unless you go into leagues.

[ChrisColeman]

just because you got banned (http://www.raceauthority.com/report_lookup.asp?ReportID=146) for account sharing... :really:

Account sharing? What exactly is that? I Can't let my son play or change my username for team races? That's really not a good reason for a ban. Eh whatever. That was 3 years ago! A year before you even joined :)

[geeman1]

You already got busted. No use in making excuses now.

[EliteAti]

I Can't let my son play or change my username for team races?

Youre right, you are NOT allowed to do that :)

[ChrisColeman]

I'm not making excuses! This was done for sure! Just didn't know it was against ctra TOS until after I was banned. Its not the end of the world though, its was only ctra servers , which don't even exist anymore. I was just stating Sam H LOVED banning people.

[geeman1]

Just didn't know it was against ctra TOS until after I was banned.You didn't read the rules? :really:

And you seriously thought that masquerading as CTRA official was OK?

[ChrisColeman]

And you seriously thought that masquerading as CTRA official was OK?

Yeah after being perm banned from like 10 servers for no good reason, I thought it was pretty damn funny, since it wasn't a ctra related or owned forum.

[Sticky-Micky]

So will this current band-aid of a patch help drum up some decent racers ?

What are your thoughts on the intermediate patch subject?
I was playing Forza 3 the other night and one of the drivers was so respectful and smooth, giving each other just enough room to race fast, but no crazy banzai stuff, i had a chat with him and he turned out to be ex PC sim racer who had gotten bored with R Factor and wanted something newer, we had a chat about PC`s Sim racing and LFS.

His words

" that bloke who codes Live for Speed is like a genius, but i cant believe he does not want extra people helping out to speed up the development"

He also said that the "oldskool" pc sims had become stale and had been left behind by newer products.

The next race i had was full of bumper cars LOL

[RedStarArmy]

Wanted a late night blast but there really is no servers, apart from 1 server the most playing online is 5 in S2. Ive even started going on demo just to get a decent race with a decent grid. IMO i shouldn't ever be finding myself going back to demo but i think its the hours im trying to play, i feel sorry for the yanks, LFS is dead for them unless you go into leagues.


Just started racing again after about a year break. The only server with decent amount of people around the hours that I play seems to be the FM Fox server, which is just fine with me because i mainly race the Fox. But thank god for that server, or else there would be nothing.

As an aside...what are some of the American leagues? or atleast ones that race with doable hours for us 'yanks'? I've tried looking through the list on the forums but couldn't find one.

[Danke]

As an aside...what are some of the American leagues? or atleast ones that race with doable hours for us 'yanks'? I've tried looking through the list on the forums but couldn't find one.

LOTA (http://www.lfs-lota.net) - League of the Americas runs some great leagues on Thursday nights, sometimes Mondays too.

There's also my UF Baby-R league (http://race2play.com/schedule/show/482) on alternate Wednesday nights.

[dorikick]

WHere have we all gone, well no where really, we just don't race anymore. See what happened, was LFS used to be fun, fast, pick up, meat up with the reg drivers and you used to be able to have a general laugh day and night. Well in its strive to become "almost realistic" it lost alot of the pick races, then "fun" element of use older drivers. Not all of us can dedicate our time to leagues, Enduro etc etc, although i did in the past, sometimes people have to make a choice, and well this is what happens.

There are still a few of the "old school" regs around, but not many anymore, well not racing as they used to, and me being one of them. Why, well there was to many rules, to many regulations, so much server control, and not enough fun anymore, which is what LFS started out as, correct me if I am wrong.

Time was always going to be an issue with LFS, but us oldies that supported it, understood that great things take time, and we was willing to wait, but in the mean time, the strive for perfection, remove the strive for fun and enjoyment.

In my eyes, what started out as a fun and enjoyment project, has turned into a serious, over the top and to many rules Sim. How can you turn it into a serious project with non realistic cars ( ok bar a few ) and totally non realistic tracks, tracks that you would build in your loft using Scalextric's and expect people to say "wow this is realistic" how the hell should they know, if:

A: Never driven the car
B: Never driven on the track?

You have to pay for realism, track days etc etc, LFS had and I say "had" the market where it was almost real, but drivers respected each other, but in a fictional place. Now...god knows what happened, so....IMHO use dude's that joined many moons ago, loved having fun, don't anymore, hence your question, where have we gone, no where, we are still here, just cannot be bothered anymore.

Nailed it. I agree completely.

[UnknownMaster21]

About me, I am in Finnish Defence Forces Military and coming back in full civilian life exactly 2 months. Then I would continue my LFS gaming as well...

[obsolum]

Nailed it. I agree completely.
You've only been here a year :really:

[hyntty]

About me, I am in Finnish Defence Forces Military and coming back in full civilian life exactly 2 months. Then I would continue my LFS gaming as well...

**** you in that case.

243 days to go... :schwitz: