oversteer under braking

[CSU1]

I've tried a mixture of fixes and still in my XFG I have trouble entering the apex clean.

Im using a G25 with deadzones removed and under acceleration the beginning of the axis gives good FFB but under braking and deceleration the apex is very hard to hit as the steering becomes very light.

ATM I'm 1.8 seconds off WR and could do a lot better if I solved this problem:shrug:

Suggestions please?

E;

epic thread title error = 1 x *facepalm*

[felplacerad]

The trick to keep FWD cars from oversteering is to gently get on the throttle as you break.

Not sure how to remedy oversteer under barking though! :)

[CSU1]

The trick to keep FWD cars from oversteering is to gently get on the throttle as you break.

Throttle + brake = unhappy clutch, no?:shrug:

[Wilko868]

oversteer under barking

I didn't know dogs were FWD! :razz:

[CSU1]

I didn't know dogs were FWD! :razz:

ya ya, it's too early for me:tilt:

[Napalm Candy]

If the problem is understeer you can touch something in the setup like the anti roll, more hard in rear will traduce in more oversteer. Other thing is the brake balance. Or positive rear toe in.

But if you think all is fine, the problem is in driving, you can to accelerate a little when are braking hard, so the brake balance will modify in this moment and brake much more in rear than in front (with a FWD)

[CSU1]

...but is it normal to have the steering become so light? it takes more concentration trying to line the nose of the car into the apex as there's little or no FFB...

settings:

Ingame setup lock - full
ingame wheel turn - 720
logitech profiler - 720(everything else turned off ie. spring)
wheel turn comp. - .85
deadzones - removed

[RasmusL]

I don't know what your problem is exactly, but if it's simply oversteer turning into a corner, perhaps you're going just a tad too fast.. I'm not really good in FWD cars, but that's what I've experienced. Throttle cures oversteer too, of course :tilt:
And why is your turn compensation set to .85? Setting it to 1.0 gives you linear steering.

[CSU1]

I don't know what your problem is exactly, but if it's simply oversteer turning into a corner, perhaps you're going just a tad too fast.. I'm not really good in FWD cars, but that's what I've experienced. Throttle cures oversteer too, of course :tilt:
And why is your turn compensation set to .85? Setting it to 1.0 gives you linear steering.

dunno, afaik i read somewhere to keep it at .8 but that did'nt feel right so I set it to .85:schwitz:

I guess it's down to experience, ATM I'm not even going to bother with the larger cars, the XFG will do until I learn some more and get fast.

The time consuming bit is getting set up with a set and wheel config that feels right, the rest is getting laps in...

TBH braking is where I fail, it's just too hard to pick a braking point while keeping an eye for apex entry when as soon as I turn for entry the FFB from braking dissipates into nothing and the wheel becomes light and oversteer errors are easily made, all be it this all happens in about one second.:shrug:

[NSX_FReeDoM]

do you meaning locking your rear wheels? hence the "oversteer". or you could be locking your front wheels, therefore couldn't turn.

[Glenn67]

A lot of FWD sets out there are made to be much more over steer sensitive than you might otherwise expect or normally be comfortable with on corner entry.

The way to drive those sets is to be getting off the brakes before turn in and deliberately getting the car into an over steer orientation prior to the apex (as if you were aiming to cut the corner don't get on the power till your sure the car has turned in well enough) and then power through the corner (just touching the apex curb will help the car hug the apex and getting a good exit also), you will find those sets feel a lot more stable when driven this way rather than trying to prevent over steer on entry.

[zeugnimod]

Try moo-ing, it should work better.

[CSU1]

Try moo-ing, it should work better.

Whaaa!:really:

Like the cow?:(

Zeug, I dont see how that could help, sorry...

My room should sound like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_EsxukdNXM) for example?

[zeugnimod]

Yeah, wouldn't that be great? Your neighbours will be happy, too. :D

[CSU1]

Yeah, wouldn't that be great? Your neighbours will be happy, too. :D

*penny just dropped*

Sure beats barking:razz:

I will upload SPR later, thx for suggestions guy's.:thumbsup:

[JackSun]

I would suggest checking the dog isn't under the brake pedal before braking, they don't bark as much then. Though you must have a strange dog as mine Yelps rather than barks when I brake hard, especially if it's tail is under the pedal.

[george_tsiros]

Throttle + brake = unhappy clutch, no?:shrug:

huh wha?


no!

[RevengeR]

I don't know what your problem is exactly, but if it's simply oversteer turning into a corner, perhaps you're going just a tad too fast.. I'm not really good in FWD cars, but that's what I've experienced. Throttle cures oversteer too, of course :tilt:
And why is your turn compensation set to .85? Setting it to 1.0 gives you linear steering.

0 will give you linear steering, not 1.0. Can't imagine how can people drive with anything above 0, it just feels so wrong...

[RasmusL]

0 will give you linear steering, not 1.0. Can't imagine how can people drive with anything above 0, it just feels so wrong...

I drive with 1.0, and 900 degrees of rotation. With 0, I have 900 degrees of rotation for ALL cars, while most cars I drive only have 400 or something like that. With 1.0 compensation, my wheel always corresponds to the ingame wheel.

[Kristi]

Compensation is not for linear steering, but to change your degrees of rotation for each and every car that you take

[danthebangerboy]

I would suggest checking the dog isn't under the brake pedal before braking, they don't bark as much then. Though you must have a strange dog as mine Yelps rather than barks when I brake hard, especially if it's tail is under the pedal.

:huepfenic :huepfenic

[Woz]

0 will give you linear steering, not 1.0. Can't imagine how can people drive with anything above 0, it just feels so wrong...

You are wrong...

0 gives linear but 1 also gives linear if you wheel has equal or more lock that the associated LFS car.

So if you set your steering to 720 or above and wheel comp = 1 you will always get 1:1 steering for all lfs cars. Wheel comp 1 is the only setting you should use with DFP/G25 when using 720 lock.

For the OP, play with your brake bias to see if that helps with entry oversteer. As you are under braking load and the weight bias is forwards it makes the rear light.

[bbman]

Throttle + brake = unhappy clutch, no?:shrug:

Nope, clutch has nothing to do with it... The problems you get can vary between nothing via glazing to overheating, but the clutch isn't affected in any way by throttle + brake...

As Glenn said, FWDs are usually set up to oversteer on coast to get the car to turn, but as you said you're feeling the steering go light I'm guessing the front tyres are helplessly overpowered by all your inputs and when braking is done and they bite again you just have too much steering on...

Generally though it's all about weight shift management with FWD... Try conciously rolling on and off the brakes and keep the coasting to a minimum (to a point where you don't coast at all), that should help keep the oversteer in check...

You are wrong...

0 gives linear but 1 also gives linear if you wheel has equal or more lock that the associated LFS car.

So if you set your steering to 720 or above and wheel comp = 1 you will always get 1:1 steering for all lfs cars. Wheel comp 1 is the only setting you should use with DFP/G25 when using 720 lock.

For the OP, play with your brake bias to see if that helps with entry oversteer. As you are under braking load and the weight bias is forwards it makes the rear light.

0 is linear and is always the lock you have set in your drivers/Profiler, 1 is linear and always the lock the cars in LfS have (ie 270° in the MRT)...

[Gentlefoot]

Steering feeling light and floppy is usually caused by a lack of front rebound.

Oversteer while braking can be caused by the following things:

Not enough diff coast lock;
too much rear brake bias;
not enough front bump;
not enough front ARB;
not enough rear rebound;

[CSU1]

Thanks GF, I'll test later...

[Riel]

Have you tried to just put brake-balance a bit more to front?

Usually makes back more stable under braking, ofcourse.

It's the first thing I do when the back gets loose when braking a fwd.

[[DUcK]]

often leaving your foot on the accelerator a little while braking in a FWD makes it oversteer more in LFS from my experiences.

I usually just shift down really fast (make sure you don't over rev). Basically I just do the opposite to what I'd do in a RWD :p
Seems to work though!

[AndRand]

Oversteer while braking can be caused by the following things:
Hey, Gentle - you can make things clear :)

- no engine braking (neutral):
not enough front ARB/too much rear ARB - easiest way to balance neutral under/oversteer
too much rear rebound/not enough front bump - nose-diving that can regulate different balance on throttle/on braking
too much rear brake bias - obvious
- with engine braking
not enough diff coast lock? (I thought diff coast lock adds braking engine force on braking :really: ) - adds braking force to driven wheels, front wheels in that case.

[JaReed]

;1282497']often leaving your foot on the accelerator a little while braking in a FWD makes it oversteer more in LFS from my experiences.

I usually just shift down really fast (make sure you don't over rev). Basically I just do the opposite to what I'd do in a RWD :p
Seems to work though!

+1

I have noticed while trail braking if you lift a bit too fast coming off the brakes it will cause oversteer as well. To balance this be smooth with the brake release and get the car in so you can get right back on the throttle when brake is released.

I would have to say all these post about the set changes. This is most likely driver error and not the set its self. Being to aggressive with the brake pedal release and too slow back to throttle is my bet. Seeing he is using a g25 and is probably not that good at 2 footing.

Practice makes perfect.

[Kosmo]

not enough diff coast lock? (I thought diff coast lock adds braking engine force on braking :really: ) - adds braking force to driven wheels, front wheels in that case.

Diff coast lock does what the name implies. Diff is locked more while coasting. Essentially causes more understeer when off the throttle.

[PaulC2K]

I would have thought most of the issue would just be down to the weight transfering its load over the front tyres, and having nothing over the rears. I guess it depends how your driving & the corner. This would be particularly obvious in front mounted engine cars.

Applying a small amount of throttle as your turning into the corner helps address things, it'll distribute the weight more evenly and as you get comfortable with how much to apply you can even use some of that distributed weight to hold a tighter line with the car balanced to an extent that your comfortable with it. Managing the weight transfer in the slower fwd cars can in many situations find you a lot of time through later braking & continued momentum.

Im sure theres a setup tweak that can help with it, but theres a lot to be said about how you approach the situation in the car, and a settled car is a predictable car.
I'd certainly suggest looking into it before tweaking setups, understand the car better and alternative ways to take the corner, and then fix the issues, fixing the issues your creating isnt always the answer and doesnt offer the same benefits. I create enough 'issues' in RWD cars to know :D

[Kamrock]

Open Diffs... then you'll get Oversteer under braking and Understeer under acceleration... job done... hehe

Seriously I find the default setup is too fierce in the Clutchpack LSD... change it to some lower lock or even the open/viscous option. I find Viscous LSDs easier to predict too... Clucthpacks seem to behave badly whenever I drive them especially in the FWD...

If you've got a locked Diff... you won't get any brake-oversteer...