Test Patch Z17 (online compatible)

[Scawen]

WARNING : THIS IS A TEST

NOTE : THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN NEW PHYSICS / VW SCIROCCO / ROCKINGHAM

Hello Racers, here is a new Test Patch : Z17.

It is online compatible with version Z.
You can view hotlap replays made in version Z.

ABS brakes have been added to 5 cars (as a setup option) so for now you cannot upload hotlaps made in Z17.

Please keep a backup of your LFS.exe from version Z so you can go back to Z if there are any problems.

Changes in TEST PATCH Z17 :

Fixed tyre related multiplayer OOS / JOOS bug found in Z16
Bezel compensation remained active even when not applicable

KNOWN ISSUES :

LX4 number plate intersects with spare tyre

Changes in TEST PATCH Z16 :

Improved multiple monitor and curved screen support :

The number of left and right screens can be manually entered in the
View Options screen.

If you specify more than one screen, multiple views are rendered in
different directions. This allows much wider fields of view.

2 screens - maximum FOV 180 degrees
3 screens - maximum FOV 270 degrees
4 or more screens - maximum FOV 360 degrees

As before, there are two separate sets of settings. Wide mode
becomes active when the screen width is 3 or more times the height.
Normal mode and wide mode have all the same settings, but normal
mode defaults to 1 screen, while wide mode defaults to 3 screens.

The old single projection 3 three screen mode can be reproduced by
setting the number of left and right screens to zero.

A curved screen can be supported by setting the number of left and
right screens to the maximum of 5 each. This 11 screen setup is
an approximate cylindrical projection, ideal for curved screens.

Various other setups can now be properly supported, for example :

- A 5 screen setup with each screen at 45 degrees - total FOV 225
- A 3 projector setup with each screen at 90 degrees - total 270

Other new settings :

Bezel compensation - allows for the gap between monitors
Screen widths - for centre and side screens with a different width

Note :

External views (TV, helicopter and SHIFT+U mode) are always drawn as
a single render and confined to the same area as the 2D interface.

Other changes to view system :

Two button look (left + right) is now double the one button look and
this allows up to 180 degrees look (like old versions of LFS).

Rear look (instant 180 degree view from centre of car) is now the
same on all cars (no longer shows a virtual mirror) but is disallowed
if the host activates forced cockpit view.

Cockpit view Z-buffering has improved so you should not usually see
missing parts of your seat or the car body when looking around.

Other updates :

Click car arrow on small map to view that car
Included Slovenian translation of training lessons
New key : SHIFT+O to enter options from SHIFT+U mode
Pit speed limit is now shown below the pit direction arrow
Misc option "Shadow generation" replaces Z15 test shadows key
Headlights and tail lights can now be switched on by pressing '3'
V / TAB / P / HOME / F1 / F2 / F3 / F / SHIFT+M / N work in options
Virtual dash uses symbols (soon to be implemented on real dashboards)

Fixes :

FIX : Pit lane arrow is now only shown in driving views
FIX : Pit lane arrow was shown even when car was going the right way
FIX : Autocross editor buttons were wrongly scaled with the interface
FIX : Physics objects & smoke can now be seen through your windscreen
FIX : Selected object in editor vanished behind anything transparent
FIX : Turn signals were switched off if car received any damage
FIX : Crash in game setup screen after removing a player

Changes in TEST PATCH Z15 :

FIX : Pit exit indicator was a square in double byte languages
FIX : Rim / tyre polygon alignment was wrong (left wheels FXO / UF1)
FIX : Pitlane exit direction arrows did not work in training lessons
FIX : MPR buffer overflow vulnerability (reported by muhaa - thanks)
FIX : Could cross finish line without passing all route checkers
FIX : Skin names containing a '.' could not be loaded in LFS
FIX : Colour extended into skin download progress indicator
FIX : F12 tyre display for remote car could go off screen
FIX : MRT5 gear indicator and fuel gauge are now visible
FIX : Short cuts were possible in slalom course training
FIX : Autocross route checkers only worked for one lap

Changes in TEST PATCH Z13 :

New message from host replaces "Did not receive guest info"
Progress indicator for skin downloads while joining a host
Improved order of sort by version number in List of Hosts
Unlock screen clear button to remove name and password
Direction to turn is shown when leaving pit garage
Blue and yellow flags removed from cruise mode
Removed Español Latino translation

FIX : LFS could crash when many cars were in view (e.g. during MPR)
FIX : Vista 64 power save switched off monitor in full screen mode
FIX : No response in List of Hosts after failing to join a host
FIX : Lightmap (lighting on cars) was positioned inaccurately
FIX : Follower view angle setting changed when LFS restarted
FIX : Closing X connects (message in List of Hosts screen)
FIX : Shine on wheels flickered while editing wheel colour
FIX : ABS now works in reverse

Changes from Z to Z10 :

Updated wheels on Formula BMW
Implemented ABS brakes in XRG / RB4 / FXO / XRT / FZ5
Improved wheel drawing system including rotating brake discs
Improved shadows - sharper and ambient shadow effect now included
InSim : New packets to start / search replays and take screenshots
InSim : Traction Control and ABS are now reported in IS_NPL packet
FIX : Mouse steering was stuck on full lock after minimising window
FIX : Player name was wrong in entry screen on entry or after replay
FIX : Added checks to prevent guests joining with no user name or ID
FIX : OOS starting race after joining autocross host in entry screen

DOWNLOADS :

PATCH Z to Z17 (Version Z must already be installed) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_PATCH_Z_TO_Z17.exe (2.2 MB)

DEDICATED HOST Z17 (non-graphical version for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_Z17.zip (1.6 MB)

[Bose321]

Thanks! That tyre bug was quite annoying.

[Feffe85]

GREAT! Hated that bug with the tyres :S

[Rikkiwhitehead]

yea cheers mate :), was a lil annoying.

Good to hear its fixed, good work. :)

[.Mikee.]

Cheers for that!

[kimd41]

Is it me or cars have no windshield glass anymore when cockpit view is active? :shrug:

Great patch anyway :thumb:

[aroX123]

Thanks for update :thumbsup:
Looking for bugs

[PLAYAPIMP]

YAY another one!

[Flame CZE]

Is it me or cars have no windshield glass anymore when cockpit view is active? :shrug:

Great patch anyway :thumb:
And did een they have it in the past?

[jamodabestdood]

Nice one for fixing it so quick. :thumbsup:

[senn]

And did een they have it in the past?

maybe he's confused as some of the cars that have been updated recently (XRT as an example) have the "spotted" stuff down the sides making it easier to see. Possible he only noticed now he's paying more attention :)

[roadrash17]

Nice...I am gonna try it out :thumb:

[hp999]

Wehey! Thanks for the new patch!:)

[ACCAkut]

Link to my Report in the Z16 thread, just to be sure my error report gets read, and to find other people with similar problems:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1276305#post1276305

[senn]

Scawen responded to your problem in the Z16 thread, please go back and read it.

EDIT - my bad was someone else with exactly the same issue

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1276300#post1276300

Read reply for hiben1

[hazaky]

Wow, had a very very weird bug right now ... about 10sec ago lol

Anyways, cruising. I hit the barrier and just the exact moment i hit the barrier the game crashed and got a "error report". No idea why :schwitz: I forgot to check the error details tho. Anyone else had this?

No carmods ..
Using, enbseries, camlevel, revolution pack and nothing more. Im assuming that it may be the camlevel, not sure.

[Widdowmaker]

Edited as I have just read Bobs response on the z16 thread.

Good work Devs. loving the new updates.

[RasmusL]

I know this has nothing to do with this recent test patch, but you do know that you are still able to upload hotlaps from the test patches onto lfsworld even with ABS enabled? I don't really think it can be abused a lot, but editing the 2 bytes in the .spr to 00 instead of the patch number makes the replays valid.

[STF]

Wanted to post it earlier in Z16 thread but it got locked.

Tried to join a Z2 "Car park" server named "Test", inspired by J@tko's post (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1276318#post1276318) earlier.
It crashed on join the first time.. joined another car park server(parch z) and it was ok. Parted this server after a little while, and tried the "Test" server again. No crash this time, until I went out of bounds (hit a barrier on purpose).

Then.. I saw this thread and installed Z17. Went on to the same "Test" server again and it crashed everytime I tried to join.
Went on to another car park server, didn`t crash. Wanted to test the 'out of bounds' thing again, and ended in the same spot (http://i33.tinypic.com/30arybk.jpg) as earlier. LFS crashed a little while later, accompanied by a hissing sound. Tried again, and again crashed with the hissing sound when I went "underground".

Now, before I clicked "Submit Reply", joined another server(parch z), different from the last two. Everything ok, until I got in the same spot. Crash to desktop. No hissing sound this time. :D

Crash addresses were identical everytime, compared them from different crashes.

Fresh LFS install > Z16 > Z17.

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: LFS.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 4ac7b3a3
Fault Module Name: LFS.exe
Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 4ac7b3a3
Exception Code: c0000094
Exception Offset: 000c6a07
OS Version: 6.0.6002.2.2.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 64ea
Additional Information 2: cce9f653dd0f8eec446de52154d2f82d
Additional Information 3: dafb
Additional Information 4: 9575251f55adffe28a350f37013d44e1

[hotmail]

Anyways, cruising. I hit the barrier and just the exact moment i hit the barrier the game crashed and got a "error report". No idea why :schwitz: I forgot to check the error details tho. Anyone else had this?
.
You can still check the Error Details, there is on your computer a Logbook, The Book is showing the error reports, you probely will find this one in there:):nod:

Without a Detail Report is Very hard too see what happend:(

(btw: If you have vista or Win7, you can type Log in the search function, and you will find what i mean:smileypul)

Hope i helpt you,

[Austin31287]

I dont know wht this is about but z16 and z17 when driving any car my wheel feeling alot more stiffer then z15 and i cant seem to turn like i did before has somthing been changed becuz all my setting are same but it feels diffrentt:shrug:

just thougth i would ask


*Austin*

[senn]

actually i noticed it too, but thought it was just because i hadn't played in a while. But i am running the FFB down a lot more now..

EDIT: Fixed, cycled FFB level from 0 to 200% and back to my usual settings. all good now.

[mbutcher]

I really like the tail lights but LFS really needs tail lights like the ones on the current Aston Martins and Porsche 911's. It would make the supercars (ie. GTR) look really cool.

Mbutcher

[MijnWraak]

I really like the tail lights but LFS really needs tail lights like the ones on the current Aston Martins and Porsche 911's. It would make the supercars (ie. GTR) look really cool.

Mbutcher
This is not the suggestion subforum. It's for test patch bugs :nod:

FPS problem seems better since z16, 75-85 fps. :thumb:

[Feffe85]

I know this has nothing to do with this recent test patch, but you do know that you are still able to upload hotlaps from the test patches onto lfsworld even with ABS enabled? I don't really think it can be abused a lot, but editing the 2 bytes in the .spr to 00 instead of the patch number makes the replays valid.

that should be in a PM to the devs.. not here..

[bbman]

that should be in a PM to the devs.. not here..

Well, if someone likes to get banned from ever uploading hotlaps again for the short fame of having a WR for maybe half a day until Victor can take it down, he sure can try...

[Feffe85]

Well, if someone likes to get banned from ever uploading hotlaps again for the short fame of having a WR for maybe half a day until Victor can take it down, he sure can try...

true, tho its stupid to give the devs more work then they already have... sry for ot..

[danthebangerboy]

Well the hotlap issue is test patch related, as it isnt supposed to be possible, so it could be regarded as an exploitation of a hole in the SPR data in test patches, so therefore a test patch bug, which is what this thread is for? :shrug:

[Napalm Candy]

Thank you very much for the optiones to TH2GO users, I will try tomorrow :)

[AlienT.]

Thanks :)

[Mischa NED]

Just to be sure, cause I didn't see a reply on the Z16 thread yet. Are there more people who have this little problem with bezel compensation?

When I activate bezel compensation on 3 screens you see the views on left and right monitor move a bit to the center. Sounds correct, but the most left vertical line of pixels on the center monitor is also rendered/changed.

It's like if the left render is 1281 pixels (screen width + 1) so the last vertical line of pixels of that render appears on the left side of the center monitor.

UPDATE: I think this is not LFS related.. I have a way to reproduce this problem in Windows too... thanx & post can be removed

[manneF1]

:yipee: Tyre bug fixed!

Downloading soon

[Napalm Candy]

I tried a little the TH2GO functions. It is really better than ever, but I miss some feature.

I liked a lot much to put 5 monitors in left and right, than just put 1 in each side, it gives a curved view more natural. But if I put that LFS says "Not wide enough for true 11-screen setup, assuming 3-screen setup for external view"

So if LFS assumed 3 monitors (it is true) can be possible to activate the bezel management for ONLY 3 monitors?

Another thing is to adjust the angle of each monitor, to adjust FOV at more realistic possible. Only moving fordward and backward monitors, or with differents sizes the FOV is changed and the angle of each monitor is diferent. See image

I think now the angle of each monitor is automatic and dependent on FOV, and it is good but I miss the option to adjust that.

360º FOV option give me a lot to think with :smileypul

As always, you've got versatile tools and very simplified way, I like your philosophy

[roadrash17]

Here is what I have noticed:

1. FPS are higher most of the time BUT have gone down to 5 fps for a few seconds every once in a while.
2. Excellent online. Only got the JOOS thing once.
3. Everything else works really well.

Good job Devs!

[beefyman666]

No problems with this patch so far.

Just one little question though.

I know it's not a priority, but will the new dashlights that are used in external views going to be used on the real dashboards in cockpit view?

The only one I can see being tough to read (not that you need to read it) is the 'shift up' light, the others would be fine.

[J@tko]

Can we have our ABS light back :shy:

[Flame CZE]

I know it's not a priority, but will the new dashlights that are used in external views going to be used on the real dashboards in cockpit view?
Read :)

Virtual dash uses symbols (soon to be implemented on real dashboards)



The only one I can see being tough to read (not that you need to read it) is the 'shift up' light, the others would be fine.
Yes, I agree with you.

[Heiko1]

Hey,

ive found a litle bug ^^

if you exit the pits you see the arow and the speedlimit
all fine
but if you press now ESC it dissapears and arrow is still there:Looking_a

[beefyman666]

Read :)

Oops, my bad. Extremely tired right now and didn't read before I posted. :Looking_a

Nice to see they will be added. :thumbsup:

[SiL-X]

I prefer the red circle like before for "Shift-Up" Light...
Never saw a "Shift up" in real...

[nesrulz]

I prefer the red circle like before for "Shift-Up" Light...
Never saw a "Shift up" in real...

:iagree:

[LiveForBoobs]

I have tried this version and for me it works perfectly fine.

A question Scawen, why did you put the strongest lights indicator, and not the mediums one?

I take it in races, most of the time by far the mediums are the ones to use?

[John5200]

I prefer the red circle like before for "Shift-Up" Light...
Never saw a "Shift up" in real...
that was also my thought when i first saw that. btw in the real dashboard it ll be unreadable :/

[uttoro]

Drive the current Corolla, no "Shift Up", but "Shift" plus a green triangle above.

[TimberBunny]

Drive the current Corolla, no "Shift Up", but "Shift" plus a green triangle above.

Also, my GF's cousin has a mid-90's Saab 900 Turbo hatchback, and it has a light that says "Shift Up", in red. I couldn't find pics though, and her car's quite far away for me to go get one at 7am. :P

[geeman1]

I prefer the red circle like before for "Shift-Up" Light...
Never saw a "Shift up" in real...It's not a shift light you would have in a real life, it's not even rpm based like real world shift lights. It's more like a helper for new players to tell you the exact moment to shift. So it makes sense that it tells you exactly what you need to do, instead of some obscure red light.

[PoVo]

Thank You!

[Shadowww]

Drive the current Corolla, no "Shift Up", but "Shift" plus a green triangle above.Средняя скорость 38km/h? You are slow. :)

[Grigg94]

just opened my lfs with z17 installed and this happened (in attachment) its fine when i restart LFS but why does it happen :P

[Bones73]

Hey guys,

Was just in a race when it was noticed by a couple of drivers that when they pitted they had "Repair Damage" turned off but their damage was still repaired.

[Deutschland2007]

Hey guys,

Was just in a race when it was noticed by a couple of drivers that when they pitted they had "Repair Damage" turned off but their damage was still repaired.

Did they change settings? IF they did damage will be repaired, and you can´t stop it from doing that.

[george_tsiros]

no problems here.

can't check multimonitor features.

[Scawen]

Can we have our ABS light back :shy:Please can you describe exactly what you saw in Z15 and what you see in Z17, because I don't really understand your question. Z15 is a long time ago - I've been working a lot on dashboards and view options, so I can't remember every feature and every change. What I do know is the new car dashboards on my computer (to be released with VWS) have the symbols you see on the virtual dashboards, including an ABS light.

By the way, the shift light has been removed from all the road cars in our version, except the RA which has one in real life (same as that SHIFT UP light).

just opened my lfs with z17 installed and this happened (in attachment) its fine when i restart LFS but why does it happen :PLook like you are running out of texture memory. Maybe you are using a high resolution texture pack?

[Scawen]

I have tried this version and for me it works perfectly fine.

A question Scawen, why did you put the strongest lights indicator, and not the mediums one?

I take it in races, most of the time by far the mediums are the ones to use?The reasoning for this is, we don't have a headlight dipper switch yet and it's not easy to make a real difference between full beam and dipped in LFS at the moment.

And we do need the blue "full beam" light for the "flash" function. It was easiest to say simply, LFS lights are on full beam. We don't have a dipper switch but never mind, we aren't going to blind anyone.

It's because my priority is the physics, not making every light option that we don't even need yet. :)

[Luke.S]

Please can you describe exactly what you saw in Z15 and what you see in Z17, because I don't really understand your question. Z15 is a long time ago - I've been working a lot on dashboards and view options, so I can't remember every feature and every change. What I do know is the new car dashboards on my computer (to be released with VWS) have the symbols you see on the virtual dashboards, including an ABS light.

By the way, the shift light has been removed from all the road cars in our version, except the RA which has one in real life (same as that SHIFT UP light).

Look like you are running out of texture memory. Maybe you are using a high resolution texture pack?

It had a little red light which flashed when the abs was active. (may have been a different colour)

By the way any fixes been made to the roof of the LX4 and LX6?

And will the next patch include R1 tyres for the UFR and XFR as in real life I think NGTR cars use tyres similar to the R1 tyres.

[J@tko]

Please can you describe exactly what you saw in Z15 and what you see in Z17, because I don't really understand your question. Z15 is a long time ago - I've been working a lot on dashboards and view options, so I can't remember every feature and every change. What I do know is the new car dashboards on my computer (to be released with VWS) have the symbols you see on the virtual dashboards, including an ABS light.


No ABS light here in Z16 or Z17, but I did have one in Z15 [overwritten it with Z17 so can't take photos :shy:]

See attachments - ABS is on [orange tyres] but no light on dash :(
By the way, the shift light has been removed from all the road cars in our version, except the RA which has one in real life (same as that SHIFT UP light).
:)

[Grigg94]

Please can you describe exactly what you saw in Z15 and what you see in Z17, because I don't really understand your question. Z15 is a long time ago - I've been working a lot on dashboards and view options, so I can't remember every feature and every change. What I do know is the new car dashboards on my computer (to be released with VWS) have the symbols you see on the virtual dashboards, including an ABS light.

By the way, the shift light has been removed from all the road cars in our version, except the RA which has one in real life (same as that SHIFT UP light).

Look like you are running out of texture memory. Maybe you are using a high resolution texture pack?


Ye, that will be it thanks mate :thumbsup:

[Flame CZE]

Please can you describe exactly what you saw in Z15 and what you see in Z17, because I don't really understand your question.
In Z15, when the ABS was doing its job, a light on the dashnboard was lit. In Z17 it isn't like that.

[senn]

you really need a light to tell you ABS is functioning? Why? Unless its for a Failure(or toggle on/off) of the ABS system, why do you need a light?
just seems a bit redundant to me..

[JasonJ]

hmmm I guess it's good to know in case you actually forget if your setup has ABS on or off after leaving pits.
(i don't really mind, some might)

Just to clarify; here is the ABS light in action in patch Z15 (only lit up when engaging ABS)
93547

It also is the same light as the handbrake indicator in Z15
93548

[Resu]

I know this subject has already been discussed, but i never really understood it. It's not even something relevant but, scawen if you paid a little bit attention to the lights in the lastest test patch, why don't you make a little update in the key configurations to let us be choose the buttons we want for the indicators and lights? Doesn't seem that hard, and i think it would make some people pleased. But again, i don't see it as something that important atm :P

[Takumi_lfs]

Bug in Z16 and Z17 when you rotate in Shift+U mode the screen will flicker very weird.

No problems in Patch Z

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrikmWl6rL4

Video of it provided, Happens on all cars and on all track.

[BastianB]

Bug in Z16 and Z17 when you rotate in Shift+U mode the screen will flicker very weird.

No problems in Patch Z

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrikmWl6rL4
Same here.

[John5200]

Bug in Z16 and Z17 when you rotate in Shift+U mode the screen will flicker very weird.

No problems in Patch Z

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrikmWl6rL4

Video of it provided, Happens on all cars and on all track.
hmmmmm then its really a test patch bug

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt3TPCc2dz8 (btw didnt happen to me)

[Bean0]

Bug in Z16 and Z17 when you rotate in Shift+U mode the screen will flicker very weird.

No problems in Patch Z

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrikmWl6rL4

Video of it provided, Happens on all cars and on all track.

Doesn't happen for me.

[Byku]

....

Happens for me :p.

[Takumi_lfs]

Doesn't happen for me.

Weird, Fixed it with turning Vsynch on.

[Flame CZE]

That doesn't happen to me with both vsync on and off.

[Timdpr]

That doesn't happen to me with both vsync on and off.

Same here.

[Ger Roady]

Same here.
+1 Happens to me. Vsync on or off . GeForce 6800.

[george_tsiros]

try to toy around with double/triple buffering

[SiL-X]

Did not happen to me! Both VSync on/off.

By the way, the shift light has been removed from all the road cars in our version, except the RA which has one in real life (same as that SHIFT UP light).
For Roadcas: Good to know. Sounds good!
But in a Racecar: I´m sure that there is only a red circle or something else... :)

[aroX123]

Happend with me

[Bose321]

Doesn't happen with me. With vSync on and off.

[BlakjeKaas]

Tell me if this is already posted, but IIRC when you brake and have lights on IRL, you just have the brake light strength.
In LFS, you have brake light strength + normal lights. (there is a difference when you press brake and turn on/off the lights) (they overlap)

I could be wrong though, about it not being that way IRL.

Good job on the patch though!

[Scawen]

hmmm I guess it's good to know in case you actually forget if your setup has ABS on or off after leaving pits.
(i don't really mind, some might)Yes, I thought it was on the virtual dash but is not. So much code has been changed around with the recent dashboard updates, it's quite hard to check every feature is still in the public version. In the VWS version it is on the car dashboard and the virtual one as well.

I know this subject has already been discussed, but i never really understood it. It's not even something relevant but, scawen if you paid a little bit attention to the lights in the lastest test patch, why don't you make a little update in the key configurations to let us be choose the buttons we want for the indicators and lights? Doesn't seem that hard, and i think it would make some people pleased. But again, i don't see it as something that important atm :PYou are right it's not hard, but really needs a new "lights" section in the controls screen and the code for all those "one push" buttons needs some reorganising, actually would take about half a day to redo the code the way I want it (as very often it's a thing that if I delve into it, there are some updates and cleanups to do on the way). It's on my list but I put it at low priority compared with the physics we are all waiting for. Anyway you should be able to bind it to a steering wheel button using a F key with the text : /press 3

Bug in Z16 and Z17 when you rotate in Shift+U mode the screen will flicker very weird.

No problems in Patch Z

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrikmWl6rL4

Video of it provided, Happens on all cars and on all track.Yes, this is strange that some people get it and some don't. Unfortunately the bug doesn't seem to appear on my computer but that is on the list and as a real bug it does have a high priority.

The other high priority one is the crash some people have reported, an "integer divide by zero" (c0000094) at address 4c6a07. I do know the line where it happens, don't know why yet.

[Flame CZE]

When changing Anti-aliasing strength, a meesage saying "LFSE : width x height (aa)" appears on the chat. Is it supposed to appear or not?

[AjRose]

Hey Scawen, Have you thought about making the screen angle adjustable in game.

I use two side monitors that are about 30* foward from the Center monitor. I can make it look reasonable by adjusting the FOV but then I'm limited to how much I can adjust my view position.


By the way the Bezel slider was a great idea.

[Heiko1]

did someone noticed my bug and can reproduce it?

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1276640#post1276640

[Chrisuu01]

Im also getting the screen shift u bug.

@ heikom il look into it first thing tomorrow after school lol

[morpha]

When changing Anti-aliasing strength, a meesage saying "LFSE : width x height (aa)" appears on the chat. Is it supposed to appear or not?

It's a debug message, good to have in case something goes wrong with the multi screen setup.

About the Shift+U roll flicker thing. This only happens if the framerate exceeds 100fps, so I'm guessing you're doing something in a pyhsics step that's not performed on frames exceeding the physics frequency.

[Flame CZE]

did someone noticed my bug and can reproduce it?

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1276640#post1276640
Yes, I can reproduce that bug, too.

[Heiko1]

I think its easy to fix :P maybe just an boollean issue with the buttons
if it allways apear or not

and i think the turn light on button should just turn on tailights and just an little light in the front
that 'G' also have an function when Light is turned on.

Regards Heiko1

[JasonJ]

I can confirm (using fraps) that the "flickering angled shift-U" bug only happens when the FPS rises over 100 FPS. (vsync off of course)
I have a 60Hz LCD.

edit: Minimum Sleep time will affect FPS as well, but this depends on the track situation. Generally speaking, if the fps goes above 100FPS then the flickering occurs.

Looking into this I found another thing:
If you set the Maximum Frame Rate to 100, LFS only produces 92 FPS. (my game is capable of much more)

I will test if this is the case in Z15.

edit: It also drops to 92 FPS in Z and Z15 when Max Frame Rate is set 100, so this is an old bug I was not aware of, sorry.


(All info here in regards to Full Screen mode as windowed mode just reverts to 60Hz for me)

[Ger Roady]

About the Shift+U roll flicker thing. This only happens if the framerate exceeds 100fps.
confirmed :thumbsup:

[Flame CZE]

About the Shift+U roll flicker thing. This only happens if the framerate exceeds 100fps, so I'm guessing you're doing something in a pyhsics step that's not performed on frames exceeding the physics frequency.
Yes. I can confirm it, too, it flickers even if I don't move the slider.

[NightEye]

The reasoning for this is, we don't have a headlight dipper switch yet and it's not easy to make a real difference between full beam and dipped in LFS at the moment.

And we do need the blue "full beam" light for the "flash" function. It was easiest to say simply, LFS lights are on full beam. We don't have a dipper switch but never mind, we aren't going to blind anyone.

It's because my priority is the physics, not making every light option that we don't even need yet. :)
Thanks, I was wondering that myself. Best thing to do is working with sprites (like the brake lights in the very first LFS) (not wanting to compare LFS to NFS, but, http://www.whattheyplay.com/media/images/blog/2009/03/nfs_shift_audi_4.jpg).
I understand it has no priority at all. It will come eventually :)


Haven't found any bug yet, nor can I reproduce one of the mentioned ones (yes, the pitlane arrow stays visible when you press Esc, but I don't consider that a bug). Great updates.

[Takumi_lfs]

Yes, this is strange that some people get it and some don't. Unfortunately the bug doesn't seem to appear on my computer but that is on the list and as a real bug it does have a high priority.



Another fix for this is limiting your FPS to 100 or less. It seems to happen on my pc because lfs runs on 300-500 fps here.

I played with all of the graphic options and screen resolution, no succes at all.

Edit : It seems that JasonJ beat me to it.

[Tim NL]

Another fix for this is limiting your FPS to 100 or less. It seems to happen on my pc because lfs runs on 300-500 fps here.

I played with all of the graphic options and screen resolution, no succes at all.

Yes , i have the same.
Limiting to 100FPS and no problem, when i set no limit ( 150-260 fps) it goes wrong with rolling in Shift-U mode.:D

[STF]

did someone noticed my bug and can reproduce it?

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1276640#post1276640
Yes, happens here too.

@ NightEye, pitlane arrow yes, but not the speed limit text under it.

I can confirm (using fraps) that the "flickering angled shift-U" bug only happens when the FPS rises over 100 FPS. (vsync off of course)

It wasn`t flickering before for me, I had it locked at 100 fps. Unlocked it and I can confirm it too.

[spiderbait90]

Yes , i have the same.
Limiting to 100FPS and no problem, when i set no limit ( 150-260 fps) it goes wrong with rolling in Shift-U mode.:D

+1

Limited to 100FPS, no bug.

Unlimited (125'ish - 200) Bug.

The flickers aren't quite as intense as the youtube video that someone posted, but they are there none the less.

[morpha]

Did some more testing on the Shift+U-roll bug.
It only occurs in Shift+U mode, I can roll (via joystick assigned to the roll axis in Options -> Controls -> Axes/FF) fine in cockpit view with up to 500fps.

So to summarize:
Only in Shift+U Only if the framerate exceeds 100 fps Only roll, height and FOV are not affected Only in "idle" operation, it doesn't happen while the camera is actively moving. However, it does happen when it's being moved by smoothing.
€: It's not so much the camera being moved but camera related input being processed. Shift+U, arrow keys make the bug disappear, as does changing the height with CTRL+UP or DOWN, even if you reach max or min height. Changing the roll with CTRL+RIGHT or LEFT doesn't work though.
Hope that narrows it down :)

[Takumi_lfs]

Still happens when the camera moves with the car though.

[morpha]

Still happens when the camera moves with the car though.

Yes, by "actively moving" I meant "moving as a direct result of user input" :razz:

[tinky winky]

EDIT! Never mind, super old post lol.

[Inouva]

Sorry is not a bug report, but is a point of view about removing the "Red" light to shift (In the dashboard) i dont think is a good idea, or at least an option in the screen setup or display setup to have "Whana see the RED light when you need to shift? Yes/no" , because much ppl dont know where are the optimal rpm range to change the gear, you need sertain training and knowing of each car to know when is the Optimal rpm range to change gear.

Hope can understand me

Is a way to see bouth side of ppl, The ppl who know when change the gear without the "Light" and the ppl who dont know when change the gear without the light.

Regards

Inouva

[morpha]

Is a way to see bouth side of ppl, The ppl who know when change the gear without the "Light" and the ppl who dont know when change the gear without the light.

Those who don't know will have to learn the old-fashioned way, by experimenting :nod:
All the road cars have pretty user-friendly torque curves, the GTRs will probably keep the shift light and the single seaters are pretty self explanatory.

[SamH]

Road cars don't have shift lights, so it makes sense to remove it.

It does take a certain level of skill to know when to change gear, I agree with you. And that is why I think the light shouldn't be there. When you have a light telling you when to change gear, who needs to acquire that skill?

[Velociround]

I can confirm (using fraps) that the "flickering angled shift-U" bug only happens when the FPS rises over 100 FPS. (vsync off of course)
I have a 60Hz LCD.

Generally speaking, if the fps goes above 100FPS then the flickering occurs.

Looking into this I found another thing:
If you set the Maximum Frame Rate to 100, LFS only produces 92 FPS. (my game is capable of much more)

I will test if this is the case in Z15.

edit: It also drops to 92 FPS in Z and Z15 when Max Frame Rate is set 100, so this is an old bug I was not aware of, sorry.

I can confirm the Shift + U bug.
It happens at exactly any value higher than 100.0FPS, and doesn't happen with Vsync on because vsync limits fps to 60 (my display is 60Hz).
Also, the higher the FPS, the most it flickers. at about 101FPS (approximately) it flickers every once in a while, but at 130FPS it flickers quite quickly.

Now, about the other bug (choosing limit to 100FPS and only get 92FPS), I can confirm it too on Windows XP Professional 32Bits.
However, when I choose the maximum frame rate to 100 on Windows 7 (RC Build 7100), I have exactly 100.0 FPS at all times. So, I don't know what causes this, and I would indeed say it's a old "bug" because it's been a few patches since that happens.
Note: choosing to limit fps to 90 on Windows 7 will limit it to exactly 90.9FPS.

[morpha]

at about 101FPS (approximately) it flickers every once in a while, but at 130FPS it flickers quite quickly.
At 101fps it should, in theory, flicker once per second, 30 times per second at 130 fps and so on ;)

Now, about the other bug (choosing limit to 100FPS and only get 92FPS), I can confirm it too on Windows XP Professional 32Bits.
However, when I choose the maximum frame rate to 100 on Windows 7 (RC Build 7100), I have exactly 100.0 FPS at all times. So, I don't know what causes this, and I would indeed say it's a old "bug" because it's been a few patches since that happens.
Note: choosing to limit fps to 90 on Windows 7 will limit it to exactly 90.9FPS.

Could be a number of things, but it's definitely something Scawen has no control over. My guess is Vista and Win7, especially 64bit, have a higher timer resolution, XP 32bit might give LFS 3ms sleep when only 1ms was requested. Open <lfs dir>/deb.log, second line should be the timer resolution
Oct 04 20:22:37 LFS : 0.5Z17
Oct 04 20:22:37 timer resolution 1 ms
however, the reported value is not necessarily accurate.

[Inouva]

Road cars don't have shift lights, so it makes sense to remove it.

It does take a certain level of skill to know when to change gear, I agree with you. And that is why I think the light shouldn't be there. When you have a light telling you when to change gear, who needs to acquire that skill?

Those who don't know will have to learn the old-fashioned way, by experimenting :nod:
All the road cars have pretty user-friendly torque curves, the GTRs will probably keep the shift light and the single seaters are pretty self explanatory.

Because you are removing something for the new ppl that is important, is like someon remove the "training wheels" of your bike when you dont know how to ride it without that...

But is my pov nothing more

[Not Sure]

Enabling the "forces view" (f) while in "shift-u", causes the screen to go bananas.

[Amynue]

not making every light option that we don't even need yet. :)I love these hiden informations in Scawen's posts :P

Rotate flickering bug happens to me as well.

[senn]

Is there a specific car that screen bug happens with? I can't get it to occur..

Vista Ultimate 32bit
XFX 8800GT Alpha Dog
1920x1080 @ 60hz
all settings in LFS maxxed, vsync off

[morpha]

Is there a specific car that screen bug happens with? I can't get it to occur..

Vista Ultimate 32bit
XFX 8800GT Alpha Dog
1920x1080 @ 60hz
all settings in LFS maxxed, vsync off

Are you achieving a framerate higher than 100 fps? Did you roll the camera enough for the effect to be noticable?

@Not Sure: I can't confirm that, forces view works fine for me.

[rockclan]

Hey Scawen tried it on Windows 7 Release Candidate, and it worked fine :)
Thanks.

Will try it on Windows XP Pro when I come back home!

[Mille Sabords]

I get the same result in Shift+U mode
(flickering when rolling the camera + during zooming in/out)
Nvidia FX770 (512MB, screen 1440x900@60Hz)
Intel core 2 duo T9600 @ 2.8 GHz, 4GB ram

Flickering stops when I cap FPS (62 FPS)
Nothing in Forces view.

[Dygear]

It's because my priority is the physics, not making every light option that we don't even need yet. :)

:), yet. Awesome.

[HVS5b]

Road cars don't have shift lights, so it makes sense to remove it.

Sure about that?

My humble standard 5yr old RX8 has one :shrug:
It goes 'beep' as well in case the light isn't enough :razz:

Still agree that they are not required on road cars.

All good stuff Scavier, my breath becomes more bated every day....

[JJ72]

Because you are removing something for the new ppl that is important, is like someon remove the "training wheels" of your bike when you dont know how to ride it without that...

But is my pov nothing more

I learned to ride on a simple bike. :tilt:

Shift light isn't really important, you shift up when the rev runs out, it's not complicated.

[Mischa NED]

Hey Scawen, Have you thought about making the screen angle adjustable in game.

I asked the same in Z16 and for me it would be a great option! I hope it's simple to add. What is the angle now? 45? I'm using even less than 30, because the distance to my monitors is about 1 meter. I think I need only 20 degrees or so. Moving the screns to 45 degrees is not an option... Right now I drive without left/right enabled, so I'm on the old 3 screen setup..

[BADLVBOY]

why my post is deleted?

[Scawen]

Thanks all for the SHIFT+U flicker bug diagnosis. Should be easy to fix.

Enabling the "forces view" (f) while in "shift-u", causes the screen to go bananas.I think that is probably because from where you were looking, when you were drawing all the cars, your frame rate was below 100 fps. Then when you pressed F there was less to draw so the frame rate went above 100 fps.

So I think it's just the same bug where SHIFT+U mode goes crazy if the FPS is above 100 and LFS is not paused.

[Not Sure]

Thanks all for the SHIFT+U flicker bug diagnosis. Should be easy to fix.

I think that is probably because from where you were looking, when you were drawing all the cars, your frame rate was below 100 fps. Then when you pressed F there was less to draw so the frame rate went above 100 fps.

So I think it's just the same bug where SHIFT+U mode goes crazy if the FPS is above 100 and LFS is not paused.

The bug visible _before_ I pressed F, so it's not that simple.

Now that i think about it, it makes sense. Enabling the forces view just made fps go higher -> more visible flickering.

So, not a bug, sorry :shrug:

[Crady]

Thank you very much for the hard work to release patch 16/17!

However I have to say that I am kind of "addicted" to the shift light - but it is much harder to see than the old one. So I would suggest to make it a bit brighter or - would be my favourite - to add a shift beep (with a turn on/off option in sound menu of course).

Second thing is the pit speed limit shown with the direction arrow... Well all tracks have a speed limit of 80km/h... So why to show it?

Or does this mean Rockingham will have another speed limit in the pits than the other tracks?

Or do we get an option to choose custom speed limits in further versions - which would be much appreciated esp. in Kyoto and Westhill?

[senn]

even though it seems you know already, just confirmed it, forces view in Shift U with Camera Rotation causes screen flicker.

XFX nvidia 8800GT Alpha
Windows vista Ultimate 32 bit

[Shadowww]

Enable VSync. 60 fps with VSync look better and smoother than 9001 fps without VSync.

[Ricou]

Hi Scawen,

First I'd like to congratulate you for all the good work you've done. :thumb:

Now I have a little request : In 3 screens mode, could you make an option to let us choose wether to render external views on 1 screen or on all screens ?

I ask that because I prefer the old way those views were rendered (even with the FOV beeing too narrow), and I'd like to have this back :D

Thanks in advance for any reply you may do.

[geeman1]

Set the amount of sidescreens to zero. Click on the number to change it.

[bunder9999]

i was wondering if perhaps the XR's could use the real headlights instead of the bumper-mounted lights... it looks kinda odd to have the real ones stuffed inside the hood when the other lights are on.

i realize it might put a damper on aerodynamics, but if you're taking the rev light out of the road cars, what's one more change going to hurt? :shrug::D

[majod]

sorry maybe a bit OT, but is there some difference between limiting fps to 60, or enabling vsync to get only 60fps?

[rally.bua]

yes, there is. with vsync on, those 60fps a synchronized with screen output, just limited to 60 they are not. (with all good and bad effects)

No problems with Z17 here so far, love the improved z-buffering in cockpit view. (y)

[AndroidXP]

Yes.

1) Vsync will only limit to 60fps if your monitor refresh rate is 60Hz (they are linked)
2) Only vsync can effectively eliminate tearing. Manual limitation might sorta work but it also might not
3) Vsync will cut your fps dramatically if you are for some reason not able to reach your monitor's refresh rate. Every time you dip below it your fps will be cut in half, so for example on 60Hz if you can't hold 60fps it will be cut to 30fps, if you can't reach that it will be cut to 15fps, etc.
4) Manual limitation should really only be used to relieve your graphics card from unnecessary stress (or prevent fps jumping up and down too much). Depending on your PC's timer resolution the manual limitation can also be considerably less accurate than using vsync

Overall, vsync should only be used if you notice tearing and you have a graphics card / CPU combo that can reliably hold your monitor's refresh rate in fps.

[geeman1]

3) Vsync will cut your fps dramatically if you are for some reason not able to reach your monitor's refresh rate. Every time you dip below it your fps will be cut in half, so for example on 60Hz if you can't hold 60fps it will be cut to 30fps, if you can't reach that it will be cut to 15fps, etc.Not if you use triple buffering, which you should. I don't think you even can switch triple buffering off inside LFS. Of course you could force it off from the drivers, but I don't see why would anyone want to do that.

[bunder9999]

Not if you use triple buffering, which you should. I don't think you even switch triple buffering off inside LFS. Of course you could force it off from the drivers, but I don't see why would anyone want to do that.

IIRC, triple buffering is enabled at 2x AF. :shrug:

[Christof Blum]

When I use VSync I have a lag between real and virtual wheel. In every race-sim i tried it.

Is it only visual effect or does it affect physics too?

[Shadowww]

Overall, vsync should only be used if you notice tearing and you have a graphics card / CPU combo that can reliably hold your monitor's refresh rate in fps.Wrong. If you PC can do 60+ all the time, you must use VSync. This way your hardware won't be pushed to limits = less overheating and less power usage.

[TheAdmiester]

Wrong. If you PC can do 60+ all the time, you must use VSync. This way your hardware won't be pushed to limits = less overheating and less power usage.
Actually, he's right. Although there's no point in turning Vsync off unless you get an FPS higher than your monitor's refresh rate, it can still cause visual tearing on the screen.

[AndroidXP]

Not if you use triple buffering, which you should. I don't think you even can switch triple buffering off inside LFS. Of course you could force it off from the drivers, but I don't see why would anyone want to do that.
Oh right, didn't think about that :)

[AlienT.]

The 3 screen support works very well. But, my cars are all now shiny and blue which I don't like, any way of getting this 'lighting' effect back to the original?

Thanks.

Edit: never mind I am a numpty, sorry

[manneF1]

Bug!

[Takumi_lfs]

Bug!

old and not Z17 related.

Happens rarely.

[Bluebird B B]

Yes.

3) Vsync will cut your fps dramatically if you are for some reason not able to reach your monitor's refresh rate. Every time you dip below it your fps will be cut in half, so for example on 60Hz if you can't hold 60fps it will be cut to 30fps, if you can't reach that it will be cut to 15fps, etc.
4) Manual limitation should really only be used to relieve your graphics card

Overall, vsync should only be used if you notice tearing and you have a graphics card / CPU combo that can reliably hold your monitor's refresh rate in fps.

3: In al those years.. from the beginning at voodoo cards, s3 virge cards i have never noticed such behavior. If a frame is not ready when your screen is ready to receive, a 3d-engine will just wait for the refresh and display the frame as soon as possible. There is no intentional cut in fps. Although vsync will certainly reduce fps, but the devider by two?? no way! Well that said, there are so many programmers around the world, most likely there will be someone who managed to get this behavior out of his program:D And then its called a bug.

4: Limiting lfs to 100fps is a very efficient way to save energy. It also relieves your cpu. On fast systems it will save well over 50 watts of power. Certainly worth it.

[Bluebird B B]

When I use VSync I have a lag between real and virtual wheel. In every race-sim i tried it.

Is it only visual effect or does it affect physics too?

refresh-rate of 60Hz is low, so if a frame is just not ready to be displayed at a screen refresh, you will be shown the next frame about 1/60th of a second too late. Add to that the significant input-lag many lcd-screens have.... you might be lagging, in worst case, up to 5/60th of a second behind. Espacially many samsung lcd' s which are often notoriously slow. This lag is not caused by the leds in the lcd-panel, it is caused by the electronics in the monitor which send the signals to the lcd-panel.

[rally.bua]

3: In al those years.. from the beginning at voodoo cards, s3 virge cards i have never noticed such behavior. If a frame is not ready when your screen is ready to receive, a 3d-engine will just wait for the refresh and display the frame as soon as possible. There is no intentional cut in fps. Although vsync will certainly reduce fps, but the devider by two?? no way! Well that said, there are so many programmers around the world, most likely there will be someone who managed to get this behavior out of his program:D And then its called a bug.


"Wrong". If double buffering (one front-, one backbuffer) is used and you hardware can't reach display refresh rate, you get FPS 1/2 (1/3,1/4..) of display refresh rate. To get around this there is tripple buffering (one front-, two backbuffers), this will eliminate the framedrops and the little extra lag. It costs a bit more video memory, though.

When I use VSync I have a lag between real and virtual wheel. In every race-sim i tried it.

Is it only visual effect or does it affect physics too?

First, with double buffering vsync adds a maximum lag of 1 frame. Correct implemented tripplebuffering with vsync adds near to zero lag. The problem here is, in directx there is no given method for tripplebuffering, gamedevs have to implement one thereselfs. and often it means a render ahead queue of three buffers is called tripplebuffering, which it is not. So in worst case, you switch on vsync, click tripplebuffering in game and end up with additional lag of 3 frames.

There is a very good article at anandtech.com, everyone interested should read it: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3591&p=1

[Gekkibi]

i was wondering if perhaps the XR's could use the real headlights instead of the bumper-mounted lights... it looks kinda odd to have the real ones stuffed inside the hood when the other lights are on.

Too much off-topic, but heck... For example Porsche 944 has bumper-mounted lights, as well flip-flop lights. And I never drive using flip-flops during a day. ;)

[Shotglass]

Overall, vsync should only be used if you notice tearing and you have a graphics card / CPU combo that can reliably hold your monitor's refresh rate in fps.

overall vsnyc should never be used in games that run a physics rate that isnt evenly divisible by your monitors refresh rate

[Ricou]

Set the amount of sidescreens to zero. Click on the number to change it.
Already tested, not working.

[dawesdust_12]

Scawen.. RE: Shift Up light... Will that stop being reported to outgauge applications, or is it just in LFS only?

[JO53PHS]

Not a bug, but I thought it's worth mentioning that for Z16 and Z17 have given me quite an FPS hit compared to Z15 and previous.

Used to be 40-60 FPS nearly all the time, and now I'm looking at 20 - 30, but generally closer to 20. :(

Nothing significant has been changed on my PC :shrug: Is there something code wise that is now (largely?) more complicated than before that would cause this?

[!RAM!]

Not a bug, but I thought it's worth mentioning that for Z16 and Z17 have given me quite an FPS hit compared to Z15 and previous.

Used to be 40-60 FPS nearly all the time, and now I'm looking at 20 - 30, but generally closer to 20. :(

Nothing significant has been changed on my PC :shrug: Is there something code wise that is now (largely?) more complicated than before that would cause this?

Im getting closer to 10fps, I use to have around 60...And my graphics are on lowest :(

[itsphilthy]

I noticed that the fuel needle is gone while spectating...when i drive its there...anyone notices that too?
:shrug:

[aroX123]

I noticed that the fuel needle is gone while spectating
:shrug:
Its normal i guess, not a bug, its the same as tires, you cant see the temp on others. I dunno why, reduce lag?

[geeman1]

That was changed ages ago.

[Inouva]

Its normal i guess, not a bug, its the same as tires, you cant see the temp on others. I dunno why, reduce lag?

Tire dont know , but the fuel is for strategy, so, no one can see the fuel of other racer´s and guess, in what lap is aprox hes/her gona make the pit stop.

[raczger]

I know, this is not actually z17 bug:
I put bl1, and demo cars on server, what normally s2(0.5 z13), and the lfsworld say it is demo server. My friend try join to server (with demo licence), but he can't, lfs say: it is s1 server.

(Sorry for my bad english)

[Tomasevich]

This may have been mentioned, but you are unable to click on the car icons on the map without having the connection list open. If the connection list isn't open, there's no mouse. Perhaps set it so that the mouse shows up and disappears after a few seconds regardless of whether there are buttons on the screen?

[MijnWraak]

This may have been mentioned, but you are unable to click on the car icons on the map without having the connection list open. If the connection list isn't open, there's no mouse. Perhaps set it so that the mouse shows up and disappears after a few seconds regardless of whether there are buttons on the screen?
+1. Pain in butt to move mouse for 2 seconds trying to find the cursor, then finding out you have to hit N twice, then move the mouse again to click on the arrow. Would be worthless if you needed to spec a teammate during a race, you'd probably crash.

[Flame CZE]

+1. Pain in butt to move mouse for 2 seconds trying to find the cursor, then finding out you have to hit N twice, then move the mouse again to click on the arrow. Would be worthless if you needed to spec a teammate during a race, you'd probably crash.
I don't think this feature is mostly used during races, so pressing N once (it works without the list, too) and clicking on the map is not that difficult.

[Crady]

Right, but if you want to spectate a special car by choosing it from the map, you probably would like to know who he is. So once selected the car you either have to press V several times to see his name in the TV or chase view, or you have to press N again to see the little arrow pointing at his name...

[JasonJ]

Nobody thinks around here?

People driving using mouse would have a hard time steering if every mode had the mouse interacting with the interface.

:x

[Crady]

oops didn´t think about mouse users... but on the other hand I think this function is useless while driving. So in spectate mode you should be able to interact with the mouse in every situation.

[eddie_brunette]

Thank you...
I got some of those error messages last night, will install Z17 tonight and let you know......

edd

[Scawen]

Not a bug, but I thought it's worth mentioning that for Z16 and Z17 have given me quite an FPS hit compared to Z15 and previous.

Used to be 40-60 FPS nearly all the time, and now I'm looking at 20 - 30, but generally closer to 20. :(

Nothing significant has been changed on my PC :shrug: Is there something code wise that is now (largely?) more complicated than before that would cause this?

Im getting closer to 10fps, I use to have around 60...And my graphics are on lowest :(It's surprising to me that some people get a lower frame rate, I thought all changes I made would only improve frame rates (unless you use multiple renders).

Unfortunately, these reports of low frame rates so far are quite meaningless, because they are not accompanied by a description or a screen shot. So I don't have a clue what could be slowing you down - scenery, cars, shadows, wheels - there are so many things...

What would be useful is a screenshot from Z17 and the frame rate, also a screenshot with exactly the same scene visible in an older version. Then we can start to consider what might be happening. Assuming the problem is graphical, please remember to pause so there is no physics processing in each case.

I know, this is not actually z17 bug:
I put bl1, and demo cars on server, what normally s2(0.5 z13), and the lfsworld say it is demo server. My friend try join to server (with demo licence), but he can't, lfs say: it is s1 server.

(Sorry for my bad english)Maybe you have a layout loaded or you have set maximum guests too high.

Why it is different on LFS World I do not know, but please let us know if you find the answer.

[Matrixi]

I can confirm the lower fps in the latest test patches, however for me it only occurs when I see multiple cars drifting and generating thick smoke which is overlapping. That can suddenly cause my fps to take a dip from 170 all the way down to 15 or so. Related to the smoke/dust windscreen fix perhaps?

[SamH]

If you could post a replay, tell us which car to follow/be in, and when it happens for you then we could get a comparison across a mix of h/ware.

[Scawen]

Hey Scawen, Have you thought about making the screen angle adjustable in game.

I use two side monitors that are about 30* foward from the Center monitor. I can make it look reasonable by adjusting the FOV but then I'm limited to how much I can adjust my view position.I am thinking about it. I understand the need for a side monitor angle setting, in two quite normal and reasonable situations :

1) If the centres of your side monitors do not directly face your viewpoint.

2) If you want to use a wider fov than the true fov of your monitors.

It's not easy though... I am on the case but don't know yet if it will work out.


By the way the Bezel slider was a great idea.I agree, but it was not my idea. :)

[raczger]

Maybe you have a layout loaded or you have set maximum guests too high.

Why it is different on LFS World I do not know, but please let us know if you find the answer.

I found, what was wrong. On the server was these settings: /carsmax=15 /maxguests=15 and the demo lfs say it is s1 host, but lfsw say it's demo, because i think it dont look the carsmax, what in demo 12 :) When i set /carsmax=12 , demo user can join.

[pipa]

Not a real problem, but the brake lights, on the car that have them combined with the normal light, are brighter when the rear light is turned on. As far as i know they should have the same brightness regardless if the light is turned on or not.

[Rascar13]

Not a real problem, but the brake lights, on the car that have them combined with the normal light, are brighter when the rear light is turned on. As far as i know they should have the same brightness regardless if the light is turned on or not.I noticed that too, and you're right. Brake light should be same brightness when taillight is turned on and off.

[aroX123]

I agree, but it was not my idea. :)
But it was your idea to add it :tilt:
So it was a good idea

[VoiD]

...As far as i know they should have the same brightness regardless if the light is turned on or not.

Thats plain wrong!
Regulations worldwide stipulate minimum intensity ratios between the bright (brake) and dim (tail) modes, so that a vehicle displaying rear position lamps will not be mistakenly interpreted as showing brake lamps, and vice versa.

Not talking about LED´s, just normal light bulbs:

Rear-/ tail-lights should be 5 W on older cars build <70´s aka oldtimers, or 10 W on newer cars

Brakelights are always 21 W!

[tristancliffe]

But the 21W brake light filament doesn't magically get brighter because/when the 5W sidelight filament is lit.

[Ricou]

...
Now I have a little request : In 3 screens mode, could you make an option to let us choose wether to render external views on 1 screen or on all screens ?

I ask that because I prefer the old way those views were rendered (even with the FOV beeing too narrow), and I'd like to have this back :D

Thanks in advance for any reply you may do.

Is it impolite if I try to get more attention ? :D

I have the feeling I went unnoticed. By the way, turning the number of sidescreens to 0 doesn't work.

[senn]

Some cars, when the brake lights are on, turn the park light filament off (remember seeing this on a 1990 camry with some dodgy globes)
Other cars don't (my old corolla lit both filaments when the brakes were depressed) so it was a teensy bit brighter, not much tho :)

[Hoshimodo]

No probs with Z17 so far. Tested on two different machines (c2d & gtx260, p4 & 7600gt). Fps are identical to Patch Z on both systems

[Vegas Las]

Don't know if this bug is already sayed or not.

That happend only with Z17 patch : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w41wcj-Chw&hd=1

[!RAM!]

Z: http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j267/Ray-alek/LFSZ.jpg

Z17: http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j267/Ray-alek/LFSZ17.jpg

on both versions
Haze Effect = Yes
Draw sky = off
Shadow type = off
Draw Trees: = off
Draw Flags = off
Draw Rubber = off
Full-Scene antialiasing = none
Texture Filtering = none
Mip bias interface/text
" Objects/walls
" Grass/Gravel
" Road Surfaces
Z17 patch are all .8 or less more than original version

Textures = high res
Car and helmet skins compressed
Z-buffer 24


1024x768 [16 bit] 60Hz

Additional Info:
Radeon 9550

AMD Athlon XP 2000+
1.66GHz, 768MB of RAM


(I relised the hands where on in z17 and not in original but that didn't make much difference)

Edit: I have closed the application running the clock in Z17 screen shot and no great frame rate change.

[pipa]

But the 21W brake light filament doesn't magically get brighter because/when the 5W sidelight filament is lit.

Exactly my point.

[BOSCHO]

i used windows xp sp3 - z15 and there the frame rate was around 90 graphics on max
and now with windows 7 i have 40 fps with the same settings but with Z17
sometimes when someone pit it freezes for 5 sec and the frame rate drops down to 2.5 fps

Galaxy (Nvidia) 9500 ddr3
intel D 2.8
2gb ram

[geeman1]

This is not a bug really, more of a feature suggestion. When you take a screenshot with CTRL+S when using the tv camera view on triple monitors the black sides are included in the picture. It would be nicer if the black stuff wouldn't be saved to the screenshot.

[bunder9999]

would be nice if they saved to jpeg instead of bitmap too, but meh. :razz::shrug:

[AndroidXP]

Z vs. Z17 fps
The only clear difference I can see is that Z17 seems to use Anisotropic filtering.

You sure you don't have a game specific profile that doesn't work anymore because the LFS.exe has changed maybe? Or maybe you have a different install location for Z17?

[yeager]

would be nice if they saved to jpeg instead of bitmap too, but meh. :razz::shrug:

taking screen shots requires speed to avoid any delay whilst the game is running, dumping to a BMP only requires a dump of the image in memory, a JPEG would require compression of this image and therefore take longer.

[wien]

...I think the best way to test this is to do two completely new installs of Z and Z17, and test those. That way we can rule out any differences in settings, mods or driver profiles between the versions. You don't use the same AF settings in those shots, so it's not easy to compare them.

[rockclan]

Scawen,

I also have the problem with Z17 that it doesn't show some servers?
It says host has wrong version, Z10.

[spiderbait90]

taking screen shots requires speed to avoid any delay whilst the game is running, dumping to a BMP only requires a dump of the image in memory, a JPEG would require compression of this image and therefore take longer.

Perhaps it could temporarily store it as a BMP, then convert to JPEG whilst the users car is not on track, but also having an option (in the CFG) to allow for BMPs to also be exported

Its something which would be nice to have, but it isn't (in my opinion) a priority.

[dawesdust_12]

Except then Scawen would haffto implement some sort of JPEG compression library, which introduces the potential for instability or possibly vulnerabilities. It's pointless as well, as compressing it in Photoshop or something will get the size much smaller for a bit of effort.

[bunder9999]

Except then Scawen would haffto implement some sort of JPEG compression library, which introduces the potential for instability or possibly vulnerabilities. It's pointless as well, as compressing it in Photoshop or something will get the size much smaller for a bit of effort.

they have one for jpeg -> dds already, what's one more going to hurt? :shrug:

[james12s]

also another little thing to maybe consider i dont currently use multiple screens but if i did i would love to have when spectating the extra screens which currently are just blank show things like a timing sheet etc, and for it to be possibe to set what and if you want it to show and on whuich screens, even for example the chat being moved onto one of the screens. i know this thread isnt really for feature suggestions but as scawen is working on that area atm it may be something worth looking at

[bunder9999]

also another little thing to maybe consider i dont currently use multiple screens but if i did i would love to have when spectating the extra screens which currently are just blank show things like a timing sheet etc, and for it to be possibe to set what and if you want it to show and on whuich screens, even for example the chat being moved onto one of the screens. i know this thread isnt really for feature suggestions but as scawen is working on that area atm it may be something worth looking at

i like that idea, actually... :D

[skolekaj]

they have one for jpeg -> dds already, what's one more going to hurt? :shrug:
The skin one? that's only on startup so it wont affect speed of game at all:)

[arco]

they have one for jpeg -> dds already, what's one more going to hurt? :shrug:
Some people actually prefer to have the original image in a lossless high quality format, and process it in an image editing software, rather than working with a crappy jpg image that is missing a lot of details.

[dev]

some people actually prefer to have the original image in a lossless high quality format, and process it in an image editing software, rather than working with a crappy jpg image that is missing a lot of details.

png?

[N.OzolS]

Click car arrow on small map to view that car

I hope it wont be disturbing. The Connection box was already annoying for me, as a mouse user, and thats the only view where I can see the mouse.

[mutt107]

I hope it wont be disturbing. The Connection box was already annoying for me, as a mouse user, and thats the only view where I can see the mouse.you know where your mouse is pointing when the car goes that way.

[!RAM!]

Woah...
Fresh install of both Z & Z17 with default settings, Z17 is only about 10 frames different so now its 60-80fps :D So I can live with that

[ALT0160]

Nevermind, should have read the first post better. Sorry.

[blakehoo88]

PROGRESS :nana:

[CUPRAMAN]

Try to drive your car from parking in BL3 in to the outside fence area from the barriers... You must have the cam which is free view (not shift- u) and drive in grass then LFS crash-black screen-end......! ???? Am i the only one?:(

[pik_d]

Try to drive your car from parking in BL3 in to the outside fence area from the barriers... You must have the cam which is free view (not shift- u) and drive in grass then LFS crash-black screen-end......! ???? Am i the only one?:(
This can work at the autocross map too. Go over behind the buildings, spawn up on the "lawn" then drive back to fall below the map. You'll instantly crash in Z17, but not in Z0. Not too sure about any test patches in between.

[CUPRAMAN]

I know and thanks for your reply! In Z15 i don't have this problem:shrug:..... i never have a crash in LFS. So i gona see for more rpls from others....

[Whiskey]

Was trying to reproduce it, in BL3 I couldn't find the bug.
But in AU LFS.exe crashed (no more info was given) when I fall into one of the buidings and get respawned (into the grass, but out of the "legal" track)

[pik_d]

Were you in the "TV camera" mode for BL3? I can get it to crash quite easily.

[Senninha25]

Were you in the "TV camera" mode for BL3? I can get it to crash quite easily.
So can I. Happened twice to me, all I would do was change the camera to TV and everything would stop working.

[CUPRAMAN]

Yeah tv cam...... If you have other the game is ok but when you chanz in tv cam :eye-poppi.....i think if you get off the track you have a nice black screen!!:tilt: that's the right bug report!

[lvlo]

Sorry if this issue was mentioned above, but I have another problem with FPS: I have only 40 FPS at any server with no cars at track. FPS isn't locked in options. See screenshots (took it in windowed mode) for details:

No cars:
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5567/lfs00000003.th.png (http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5567/lfs00000003.png)

With car:
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9646/lfs00000002.th.png (http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9646/lfs00000002.png)

Windows 7, nVidia 9800GT 1Gb with 191.07 driver version

;)

[Flame CZE]

Sorry if this issue was mentioned above, but I have another problem with FPS: I have only 40 FPS at any server with no cars at track. FPS isn't locked in options. See screenshots (took it in windowed mode) for details:
Windows 7, nVidia 9800GT 1Gb with 191.07 driver version

Do you have a FPS limit enabled (misc options)?

[-V-Max-]

Sorry if this issue was mentioned above, but I have another problem with FPS: I have only 40 FPS at any server with no cars at track. FPS isn't locked in options. See screenshots (took it in windowed mode) for details:

No cars:
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5567/lfs00000003.th.png (http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5567/lfs00000003.png)

With car:
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9646/lfs00000002.th.png (http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9646/lfs00000002.png)

Windows 7, nVidia 9800GT 1Gb with 191.07 driver version

Do you have a FPS limit enabled (misc options)?

:twirl:

[Whiskey]

Sorry if this issue was mentioned above, but I have another problem with FPS: I have only 40 FPS at any server with no cars at track. FPS isn't locked in options. See screenshots (took it in windowed mode) for details:

Windows 7, nVidia 9800GT 1Gb with 191.07 driver version

Not a bug, it's a feature to reduce the load on your graphic card/processor when nothing have to be drawn


Were you in the "TV camera" mode for BL3? I can get it to crash quite easily.
I was in the following cam. But it crasehd anyway

I'm trying now in TV cam, I'll edit this post if it crash

EDIT:
It crasehd, the screen gets black and Windows tells me that it stoped working

When it crashed using the chase view it didn't get black, it stayed showing the last frame and the Windows message

Windows 7 Professional 64 bits
ATi HD2600 XT

[Mysho]

Do you have a FPS limit enabled (misc options)?

He said he has not. I noticed that a while ago, but as long as FPS is ok in race itself I don't care about camera view of lonely track. Afaik, it should lower your FPS on every track from this view.

[AndroidXP]

I can confirm that spectating while no cars are on the track locks the fps to 40, which is probably the same fps used for the LFS menus, so it might actually be intentional. Movement does seem oddly choppy though, for some reason.

[CUPRAMAN]

Eh,sorry i forgot to say:
Windows XP 32bits sp2
NVidia GeForce 8500 GT
:D

[Mille Sabords]

Here is what I got going out of bounds in the carpark:

*** WARNING: Unable to verify checksum for C:\LFS\LFS.exe
*** ERROR: Module load completed but symbols could not be loaded for C:\LFS\LFS.exe
Funktion: LFS
004c69ea 58 pop eax
004c69eb 6c insb
004c69ec 8b0db0e88900 mov ecx,[LFS+0x49e8b0 (0089e8b0)]
004c69f2 8b5154 mov edx,[ecx+0x54]
004c69f5 895520 mov [ebp+0x20],edx
004c69f8 8b55f8 mov edx,[ebp-0x8]
004c69fb 33c0 xor eax,eax
004c69fd 8b5d20 mov ebx,[ebp+0x20]
004c6a00 0facd010 shrd eax,edx,0x10
004c6a04 c1fa10 sar edx,0x10
FEHLER ->004c6a07 f7fb idiv ebx
004c6a09 8b0db0e88900 mov ecx,[LFS+0x49e8b0 (0089e8b0)]
004c6a0f 894168 mov [ecx+0x68],eax
004c6a12 a1b0e88900 mov eax,[LFS+0x49e8b0 (0089e8b0)]
004c6a17 8d5024 lea edx,[eax+0x24]
004c6a1a 52 push edx
004c6a1b 83c018 add eax,0x18
004c6a1e 50 push eax
004c6a1f 6888e78900 push 0x89e788
004c6a24 e827ec0000 call LFS+0xd5650 (004d5650)
004c6a29 a1b0e88900 mov eax,[LFS+0x49e8b0 (0089e8b0)]


All I had to do is get the car out of bounds and press V - crashed upon reaching TV view.
Replay unplayable, enclosed.
Tested in Z - no crash.

Good luck!

[Stiggie]

Rotate flickering bug happens to me as well.

Having the same issue.

[exspeed]

SO3R track keeps crashing in Z17, not sure if it's the patch or server.

[bunder9999]

SO3R track keeps crashing in Z17, not sure if it's the patch or server.

i'm also using Z17, and i didn't notice any problems on my end tonight (LX4 on SO3R). :shrug:

[exspeed]

i'm also using Z17, and i didn't notice any problems on my end tonight (LX4 on SO3R). :shrug:
Yeah, seems okay now, it was somekind like a wave, me, Todd and some other guy had crashes often.

[The Very End]

i'm also using Z17, and i didn't notice any problems on my end tonight (LX4 on SO3R). :shrug:

Same here.

Also, the FPS problems from patch 16 seems to be away too.

[cmanns]

LFS Crashed for me @ the car park (500servers test server)

I hit the barrier to get on the other side to go on the roof.

[three_jump]

Also getting a crash in the car park. Get out of the park and cycle through the cameras.

Problemsignatur:
Problemereignisname: APPCRASH
Anwendungsname: LFS.exe
Anwendungsversion: 0.0.0.0
Anwendungszeitstempel: 4ac6506f
Fehlermodulname: LFS.exe
Fehlermodulversion: 0.0.0.0
Fehlermodulzeitstempel: 4ac6506f
Ausnahmecode: c0000094
Ausnahmeoffset: 000c69e7
Betriebsystemversion: 6.0.6002.2.2.0.256.6
Gebietsschema-ID: 1031
Zusatzinformation 1: 64ea
Zusatzinformation 2: cce9f653dd0f8eec446de52154d2f82d
Zusatzinformation 3: 844c
Zusatzinformation 4: 4ed52b10ec9f048f765c136c6db6011f

Is that the right crash address? Otherwise some Vista user would have to show me how to get the proper one.

[Makao]

Strange bug, I was driving on Fox Junkies and there was track change. In menu was written AS3 so I changed set, but then after restart I was the only one on FE3 (previous track) and after few corners I was spectated by server. I saved MPR, but there I am driving somewhere in the universe and the other drivers are driving on AS3.

Z17

[Spez-Dragon]

Strange bug, I was driving on Fox Junkies and there was track change. In menu was written AS3 so I changed set, but then after restart I was the only one on FE3 (previous track) and after few corners I was spectated by server. I saved MPR, but there I am driving somewhere in the universe and the other drivers are driving on AS3.

Z17

Wierd :S :)

[bunder9999]

that one sounds familiar, but isn't test patch related, iirc.

[geeman1]

That's an old bug.

[bunder9999]

and also not being quite enough delay between /end and /track in the insim apps procedure.

wouldn't that just prevent the track from changing on the server? somehow i don't believe insim is the problem for that bug. :shrug:

[Flame CZE]

I have the crash problem with the BL3 too.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3184/11343790.jpg

[AndroidXP]

I can reproduce the crash, too. Happens on this line:

004C6A07 idiv eax,ebx

ebx is in this case 0, when I change it to 1 LFS continues running in some cases. The value in ebx is most likely FOV related, as it changes when zooming in/out manually, or when the TV cam auto-adjusts the FOV due to the car distance.

[KassadGLA]

Strange bug, I was driving on Fox Junkies and there was track change. In menu was written AS3 so I changed set, but then after restart I was the only one on FE3 (previous track) and after few corners I was spectated by server. I saved MPR, but there I am driving somewhere in the universe and the other drivers are driving on AS3.

Z17

one friend have the same problem :-/ . He was playing in one track of AS and when the server changed to AS3 he still running on the other track of AS

[Makao]

That's an old bug.
Maybe, but I just downloaded test patch yesterday and this happened to me first time.

[aroX123]

LFS has crashed a few times lately

AppName: lfs.exe AppVer: 0.0.0.0 ModName: lfs.exe
ModVer: 0.0.0.0 Offset: 000c6a07

I had heli cam then changed to tv cam

dunno if it helps

Edit: Got it now, be outside the track, then change to tv cam, it crashes
Edit2: i see other people above has also posted about this. I didn't know

[adamlfs]

Ok, I hope this is not already known.

But after sitting in the Driver menu I saw that the LOD reduction on the cars was lowering the detail on the cars viewed in TV mode.

I have all lfs options at max and the Dynamic LOD reduction set a 0.00.

After asking others and the fact that they saw the same it seems this seems to be bug. :)

[hotmail]

Ok, I hope this is not already known.

But after sitting in the Driver menu I saw that the LOD reduction on the cars was lowering the detail on the cars viewed in TV mode.

I have all lfs options at max and the Dynamic LOD reduction set a 0.00.

After asking others and the fact that they saw the same it seems this seems to be bug. :)
He is correct , it looks like its Reloading the Car Texture, Because on a mini (uf1000) is re-texturing after around 1 sec, and a xfg / xrg takes around 4 seconds.

Its very easy the reproduse this one:thumb: :nod:. you can do it with IA and Multiplayer cars. and your self:)

[morpha]

no, it issues /end command to all connected users..then delays, and begins its /track change...

Shouldn't the InSim wait for a TINY_REN? That should solve it :shrug:

[Flame CZE]

But after sitting in the Driver menu I saw that the LOD reduction on the cars was lowering the detail on the cars viewed in TV mode.
I have all lfs options at max and the Dynamic LOD reduction set a 0.00.
I can confirm this, I can reproduce this too in Z17, in Z it's OK.

Just go to driver options and the car detail lowers.

[Scawen]

I hope it wont be disturbing. The Connection box was already annoying for me, as a mouse user, and thats the only view where I can see the mouse.I don't really understand. Are you saying you do want to see the mouse cursor? I thought that the mouse cursor would the the thing you did not want to see at all - because if you use cockpit view you can see the steering wheel. If you use a custom view with steering wheel invisible, you can turn on the virtual steering gauge. If I am wrong about this, and a mouse user does want to see the mouse, please let me know.

Other bug reports, crash reports and relevant requests :

Thank you for the reports. I have made notes about them. I'm trying to get another test patch out as soon as possible - hopefully Friday or Saturday. Not all requests will be done but if I can get the most important issues fixed it will be worth releasing another test patch. If things work out more tricky than expected then it should be early next week.

I wanted to get back to the physics but of course could not do so while there are crashes in the test patch. I did spend the last three days on another important update to the views system. There are two new sliders in the multiple views system : monitor angle and view offset. This makes a dual head view quite reasonable now (see attached pictures). This is with a main screen FOV of 65 degrees, a side monitor angle of 30 degrees (the true angle of the side monitor relative to the main one) and a main screen offset of -0.5 (to move the steering wheel half way to the left edge of the main screen).

For triple head users the new system allows you to use a wider FOV without the need to set your side monitors at such a large angle. It took a while because the maths is a bit tricky - each view is not centred on its own screen but they must all line up perfectly along their edges. It gives a lot more flexibility with the views than the previous system.

[senn]

Much love Scawen, you guys are working flat out at the moment, your efforts are greatly appreciated :) Don't forget to stop and have a beer or something!

[morpha]

Wow great, more multihead features :)
From Z16 on, LFS offers by far the best multi-head support of all sims and games I know of.

PS: Enjoying the G27? :razz:

[J03130]

Thank you for the reports. I have made notes about them. I'm trying to get another test patch out as soon as possible - hopefully Friday or Saturday. Not all requests will be done but if I can get the most important issues fixed it will be worth releasing another test patch. If things work out more tricky than expected then it should be early next week.


very nice thanks dude have you taken my small off centre fix i showed you? (rev counter goes over clutch temp) i only pointed it out because i thought it would be only a minor bit of coding.

[Mille Sabords]

Regarding mouse cursor:

The current implementation is perfect for me.
When driving with mouse, cockpit view, I set steering wheel + hands to show.
Outside cockpit / custom views the virtual steering gauge does the job.
Pressing "N" to get the connection list does turn the cursor on, that allows me to click on the setup send / receive or "T" for team races.
It would somehow alter immersion to get a cursor flying around the screen in my opinion.

I do not see a need to click on a car in the minimap with the connection list turned off, you would obviously want to know which driver you are spectating.

Any other opinion regarding this cursor display?

[roadrash17]

Regarding mouse cursor:

Any other opinion regarding this cursor display?


I think maybe (this might be too much work) that we could have a button like "page up" to turn cursor on and "page down" to turn cursor off...that way, if you want it on at any given time, it can be, while keeping your current view setups. or maybe even allow it to be customizable in the "Views" menu. :shrug:

[Scawen]

I do not see a need to click on a car in the minimap with the connection list turned off, you would obviously want to know which driver you are spectating.There is a problem with that - if you join a host with many connections, the connection list is so tall, it overwrites half of the small map so this often obscures many of the car arrows.

Not a problem when watching a replay, because the mouse appears when you move it, but it does make the new feature less useful for live spectating.

[!RAM!]

There is a problem with that - if you join a host with many connections, the connection list is so tall, it overwrites half of the small map so this often obscures many of the car arrows.

Not a problem when watching a replay, because the mouse appears when you move it, but it does make the new feature less useful for live spectating.

Make so big and add scroll bar to it? as to not over lap.

Edit: Or can't have scroll bars?

[J03130]

Hey scawen are you relesing patch Z18 today??? (curious)

[AndroidXP]

Hey scawen are you relesing patch Z18 today??? (curious)
...
I'm trying to get another test patch out as soon as possible - hopefully Friday or Saturday. Not all requests will be done but if I can get the most important issues fixed it will be worth releasing another test patch. If things work out more tricky than expected then it should be early next week.

[Scawen]

Hey scawen are you relesing patch Z18 today??? (curious)I can only refer you to my previous post :

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1279890#post1279890

By the way, thanks for your point about the CT gauge being overlapped by the virtual gauges, but that is a low priority one as I can't see an easy way to fix the alignment.

[Glenn67]

I did spend the last three days on another important update to the views system. There are two new sliders in the multiple views system : monitor angle and view offset. This makes a dual head view quite reasonable now (see attached pictures). This is with a main screen FOV of 65 degrees, a side monitor angle of 30 degrees (the true angle of the side monitor relative to the main one) and a main screen offset of -0.5 (to move the steering wheel half way to the left edge of the main screen).

For triple head users the new system allows you to use a wider FOV without the need to set your side monitors at such a large angle. It took a while because the maths is a bit tricky - each view is not centred on its own screen but they must all line up perfectly along their edges. It gives a lot more flexibility with the views than the previous system.

Thanks so much for these improvements :thumb: it's making a world of difference to me already, very much looking forward to testing the next patch with the additional view sliders :smileypul

Curious did you have to pretty much rewrite a lot of the graphics subsystem or did you find an easier way, as I remember a few years ago you were thinking it was too much work at the time to create separate viewports.

[Scawen]

Ok, I hope this is not already known.

But after sitting in the Driver menu I saw that the LOD reduction on the cars was lowering the detail on the cars viewed in TV mode.

I have all lfs options at max and the Dynamic LOD reduction set a 0.00.

After asking others and the fact that they saw the same it seems this seems to be bug. :)Thank you for this.

After looking into it, I think the reason for this is also the key to the frame rate loss that some people experienced.

The bug is due to an important LOD adjustment that increases the level of detail when the camera is zoomed in and its angle is less than 90 degrees - very often in TV cameras because they are normally zoomed it, and also does happen in mirrors because their angle is less than 90 degrees (about 53 degrees).

The new bug is that this lod adjustment is now affected by the previously rendered image, rather than the image currently being rendered. :schwitz:

- For the driver options bug, the level of detail is high although the car is far away. But when you enter driver options, the on-screen 3D driver is drawn at a wider FOV, so the bug means that the LOD drops when drawing the car.

- For the frame rate issue, the mirrors are drawn at less than 90 degrees, and that is the "previous image" drawn when rendering the main view. So apparently, anyone who has mirrors switched on and their normal view is more than 53 degrees FOV would have an unexpected LOD increase with this latest version, causing a loss of frame rate if there are several objects in the view that are affected by LOD. You can verify this by sitting at the back of a grid with several AI cars in front of you (with a single screen render and FOV of perhaps 90 degrees or more). Press SHIFT+M to turn mirrors off and on and watch the cars - you will see that with mirrors on, the level of detail is too high on distant cars.

- One other way to see the bug is, pause the view on a very zoomed in camera then cycle through the views. When you switch from heli cam to tv cam, the first frame is drawn at lower LOD. It's very quick so it's hard to see but you can sometimes just see that brief flicker.

[three_jump]

There is a problem with that - if you join a host with many connections, the connection list is so tall, it overwrites half of the small map so this often obscures many of the car arrows.


I know it not exactly related, but would it be possible to have the connection list sorted by ingame name? It's annoying to search for a driver in big leagues with driver changes or when applying a penalty.

[N.OzolS]

I don't really understand. Are you saying you do want to see the mouse cursor? I thought that the mouse cursor would the the thing you did not want to see at all - because if you use cockpit view you can see the steering wheel. If you use a custom view with steering wheel invisible, you can turn on the virtual steering gauge. If I am wrong about this, and a mouse user does want to see the mouse, please let me know.
First of all, that might just be me. I usually use the chase view, and drive with mouse visible (connections list visible), its easier like that, for me (but i cant view stuff like F9 and so). Maybe it would be nice to have a binded key to show the cursor any time (or hide it)?

[rockclan]

Hey Scawen,

I have the official release (not release candidate) of Windows 7 Professional.
I got it earlier via school.

I will try LFS on it when I come back home today :nod:

[Takumi_lfs]

Hey Scawen,

I have the official release (not release candidate) of Windows 7 Professional.
I got it earlier via school.

I will try LFS on it when I come back home today :nod:

If the beta and RC works with lfs. Then im sure that the next patch also will.

Try to seek more attention from other threads :tilt:

[broken]

First of all, that might just be me. I usually use the chase view, and drive with mouse visible (connections list visible), its easier like that, for me (but i cant view stuff like F9 and so). Maybe it would be nice to have a binded key to show the cursor any time (or hide it)?
Yeah, that would be good. Like Shift+M (if not taken already), or just by an option in the menu(probably in misc). I would like such thing, because when I drive in LFS on windowed mode, I often go out of the screen(when I can't see the position of the mouse) and then when I maximize it again - you can guess what happens. I would also like it if mouse clipping space is lowered so you can't actually reach the edge of the window and change it's size.

Anyway, if it's harder to make then it could wait till there's more free time for minor things like that. :)

[JasonJ]

Shift-M is Mirrors Toggle.

If this happens.. :schwitz: My thoughts is <space bar> would be logical because it's space bar in the Shift-U view

[broken]

Space bar is usable in controls, and I personally am using it. :razz:
Not to break LFS' tradition - something with shift in front would be good, no matter what it would be.

[SmegFirk]

Hey Scawen,

I have the official release (not release candidate) of Windows 7 Professional.
I got it earlier via school.

I will try LFS on it when I come back home today :nod:
lol @ your signature as well. I have been using the full version of Windows 7 ultimate x64 for a couple of months since it RTM'd. It's nothing to brag about, make a thread somewhere else and see whether you get any pats on the back, I speculate not.

[SmegFirk]

A post relating to the mouse pointer issue

I am one of the disabled users of LFS and couldn't play the game without mouse support.

From my experience I would not want the mouse cursor to be visible any more than it already is while driving. I personally find it difficult to drive with the connection list visible, I find the cursor very distracting with my eyes automatically want to follow it rather than pay attention to the in-cockpit steering wheel or the steering gauge when I am in an external view.

I don't really know what solution there can be to keeping a mouse out of the way when you are driving/not showing connection list but then being able to click on the mini map without the connection list.

I would keep it as it is.

Obviously this is a selfish opinion but I think the wishes of people that use the mouse while driving should take preference. I too admin, and I understand the problem with the list going over the map. Currently I am using the new click on the map feature to jump to hotspots rather than specific cars then I can tab backwards or forwards just a few cars to find the troublemaker.

Obviously as a mouse driver I cannot drive and Admin at the same time. I really do understand why people that use a wheel and have admin rights would drive with the connection list open in order to deal with somebody as they are going along. I hope those people understand why having the cursor visible even when the connection list is not could be a problem for some users.

[Simpson]

From my experience I would not want the mouse cursor to be visible any more than it already is while driving. I personally find it difficult to drive with the connection list visible, I find the cursor very distracting with my eyes automatically want to follow it rather than pay attention to the in-cockpit steering wheel
+1
Sorry for OT ;)

[Bean0]

I too admin, and I understand the problem with the list going over the map.

This is quite easily solved by having the map on the left rather than the right.

[broken]

This is quite easily solved by having the map on the left rather than the right.
It is not solved, it is avoided. To be solved, a solution has to be thought of for the devs to work it out, but I can't think of anything. :(