The Soul of CTRA | What will become of it [Archive]

Arsenic_Fox

13th August 2009, 01:19

Well, this is a shock to me. Got a new screen. New place. Wanted to race some, so i got into iRacing. It's pretty great. But something was off. Just the feeling. It wasn't as... well... fulfilling as something in my past was.

To be honest, I've gone from game to game. NR2003, LFS, rFactor, iRacing. Each time i find a great open racing (except iRacing), end up having issues for a while, then come back to find that everything i know is gone.

I really don't know what there is I could do, but I don't want the soul of CTRA to die. I would rather fight a pointless battle to bring it back from the dead than see it gone forever. Everyone here knows they miss it.

So... my question is... is there any server that will do the same for us? Will they recreate the feeling that CTRA did? Or will someone pick up CTRA themselves and revive it? Or will it's creator keep it dead forever?

LFS just isn't the same without CTRA. LFS and CTRA go together like .... well... like... a computer and monitor go together. It's just pointless without the other.

So... will we just let it die? Not CTRA itself.. but that feeling. Or will we recreate it? Rebuild it? Renew it?

.... probably not. But i'd rather we did... =/

teedot

13th August 2009, 02:30

LFS without CTRA is much better in my opinion. CTRA was, and apparently still is, overrated.

If you really must get your "points fix", try LR|Race Center 1.. start in XFG/XRG and move up from there to other cars.

Arsenic_Fox

13th August 2009, 02:40

It's not really so much the "points" that i enjoyed.

=) I just liked knowing that there was a place that generally had full servers that were properly managed where people drove remotely sane, and i didn't have to join a team or a league. I could just plop in and everyone would be like "Hey whats up!"

I could care less for my CTRA "license"

Also... the only places i'm finding are in languages i don't understand.

> > Also, ^_^ The bump and jump server was a nice little breather from real racing.

shiny_red_cobra

13th August 2009, 02:55

I liked the clean racing. I don't really have time for leagues and such, so just a pick-up race every now and then was a really good thing. I barely ever play LFS nowadays...too bad really, I really like it.

Arsenic_Fox

13th August 2009, 03:21

well... i can't seem to get a good pickup race in either rFactor or LFS. I could always do iRacing but then i'd only get one race done in an hour.... :scratchch

Dajmin

13th August 2009, 08:13

My only problem with the CTRA system was that it was a major grind for us middle-pack finishers. I was forced to level up on cars I didn't really like and I don't think I ever actually qualified for the second server. I don't mind having to prove I'm not a wrecker, but a bit more of a reward for racing cleanly would've been nice.

The racing on the LR servers is very similar to the CTRA system, but it does seem to have some extra features that reward individual performance as well as that of the group (if what I've been told is true). So you might get loads more points for actually winning, but you're also rewarded for beating your previous bests.

Jakg

13th August 2009, 09:41

LFS Forum General Consensus - CTRA sucked, thats why every driver used to race on there.

Minimaxman

13th August 2009, 10:56

LR Race Center is only good for TBO lovers ...

How did you work that out? It's usually full of of XFG / XRG drivers with the odd points-whore going in a TBO car.

obsolum

13th August 2009, 11:07

LFS without CTRA is much better in my opinion. CTRA was, and apparently still is, overrated.
Agreed.

My only problem with the CTRA system was that it was a major grind for us middle-pack finishers. I was forced to level up on cars I didn't really like and I don't think I ever actually qualified for the second server. I don't mind having to prove I'm not a wrecker, but a bit more of a reward for racing cleanly would've been nice.
Agreed.

The racing on the LR servers is very similar to the CTRA system, but it does seem to have some extra features that reward individual performance as well as that of the group (if what I've been told is true). So you might get loads more points for actually winning, but you're also rewarded for beating your previous bests.
I think the LR server is great and actually a better place to race than the CTRA servers ever were because at peak hours it is really really packed; the server allows more people to race than the CTRA servers did. The bigger the grid the better, IMO.

However, from the few times I've been on it seemed to me that it would take me forever to increase my ranking enough to drive the TBO's (I'm also a middle-pack finisher). But there's great racing to be had in the XFG/XRG as well, so... :shrug:

LR Race Center is only good for TBO lovers
How did you get to that conclusion? :really: I've only ever seen one (1) guy drive a TBO car on there, on a full server.

I for one hope the CTRA doesn't come back :x

The Very End

13th August 2009, 13:22

*giggles*

Well, the LR server is a great place to be, but I wished they separated the TBO cars and slower cars. Usually the TBO drivers canot drive at all, and I am amazed they even managed to get those 800 points, because they sure as hell canot drive.
But as you say, I have seen one of them drive great, but the others are not even worth mention.

bibibobobubu

13th August 2009, 16:47

Without CTRA (bump & jump), we have lost small circuit race, on "AU autocross".
At this day, the few remaining race on AU are drift / without people.. :shrug:
Personnally, i think LFS have lost a part of interest without CTRA.
Perhaps we need official server.

Tukko

13th August 2009, 16:59

Well, the LR server is a great place to be, but I wished they separated the TBO cars and slower cars. Usually the TBO drivers canot drive at all, and I am amazed they even managed to get those 800 points, because they sure as hell canot drive.

+10000 to that. Thats the main reason why I don't race there that much anymore.. there's always some no-lifer, who have got enough points for teh XRT he/she can't handle, ruining other peoples races :x

NotAnIllusion

13th August 2009, 17:13

:shy:

obsolum

13th August 2009, 17:43

+10000 to that. Thats the main reason why I don't race there that much anymore.. there's always some no-lifer, who have got enough points for teh XRT he/she can't handle, ruining other peoples races :x
Never seen that happen :shrug:

DevilDare

13th August 2009, 18:31

Another "Oh my.... No more CTRA no more LFS.... QQ"

Jesus... Its dead.. Simple as that

To the question will we renew it/rebuild it, well don't know about us. However, Becky is creating a similar but a lot better system Blue 2. So yes, it should be back and it should be a lot better.

In the mean time, enjoy LFS as it is right now. The update shouldn't be too far away now IMO, therefore it will bring new fun and a new learning curve if the new physics are brought it. Giving a lot more life for LFS.

So yeah. Forget CTRA, everyone was happy playing the game as it was when CTRA was not there, and no one was moaning.

henrico-20-

13th August 2009, 18:49

zeugnimod

13th August 2009, 19:59

LFS Forum General Consensus - CTRA sucked, thats why every driver used to race on there.

I don't think that this is the "general consensus" at all.

CTRA was great while it was there and it certainly was a big shock to see it end. But it gets annoying when people like the OP here say "LFS is pointless without CTRA".

It's gone, get over it. :shrug:

Töki (HUN)

13th August 2009, 20:02

I still miss BnJ :shrug:

bunder9999

13th August 2009, 21:33

I still miss BnJ :shrug:

i don't... it never went away for me. :razz:

rich uk

13th August 2009, 21:49

I miss CRC :(

Back in the demo days CRC was the shiznit!

booo I demand answers!

;)

Becky Rose

14th August 2009, 10:08

Becky is creating a similar but a lot better system Blue 2.
Blue 2 shouldn't be compared to CTRA, it is a rethink of the base concept "How to improve LFS via INSIM server management?" without the baggage of what the X-System became. It's a fresh start, with a totally different approach to managing LFS servers by taking stock and looking at what LFS needs now, rather than evolving the route the existing concept took.

Having said that i've not been working on it at all for some months. I have been having a life! :D YAY me, but not so good for development of personal projects.

In time, should my life allow me the flexibility to work on personal projects again I may use the neural network insim core i've got almost finished for a smaller project such as giving LFS some social networking tools, and from there gradually expand it. Rather than trying to deliver a whole new system in one hit.

At the moment however i'm more concerned about things away from LFS. I'm very happy with where my life is at the moment, and the burden of developing major systems that aren't part of my day job is not something I can easily squeeze into what is otherwise a full and enriched lifestyle.

The Very End

14th August 2009, 10:16

Becky Rose

14th August 2009, 10:37

Perfectly understandable Becky, and good to hear thingsh turns out right.

About this sytem, Blue 2 or what it was called, it's still under development yes, but it's going slow due to real life matters?
Again, understandable and I do not say "FINISH THIS NAOW!" , just curious on what we can expect of this system if it were to be released?
I know nothing about this insim but would be great fun knowing something more of it, something you can reveal?
Yes real life is taking precedent, as you know Tor I have a partner in my life at the moment and we're almost living together (technically, we have our own places) - she puts up with me coding all day whilst working (I work from home), and I somehow don't feel that me then coding in the evening is going to go down very well. That in itself basically curtails development.

On top of that what time I do get to myself I am chosing to use for different things than coding right now, also i'm considering retraining myself to take a new career path atm.

If Blue 2 does appear (incidentally, it would likely appear under a different name, "Blue 2" is the project name, then it would appear in stages:

So the first thing you would get is the ability to instant message and email directly to any LFS server, with full integration to an instant messaging client (Win/Mac/Linux) and a web page. The idea being teams could keep in touch with each other whatever server they go on, and endurance racing teams could communicate with their driver. Of course, the whole thing would be designed to work without nuisance factor, so you wont get spammed or interrupted whilst you are racing.

The neural network core, which is almost complete, would support connecting to every LFS server - but it would be up to server operators to chose to opt into the system. Demo/S1 and S2 would all be supported.

From there additional functionality could be built into the system over time. I planned, for instance, to inplement rolling starts, warm up laps, and safety car procedures - fully configurable and controllable by the server admin. Standardisation of these features would meen all drivers know what is going on and would know the procedure in any league without having to train drivers in the protocols etc.

In addition to extra server rules like "no auto gears", "use 2 tyre compounds in the race" etc etc, the standard features would also be available like track rotation, league scoring and web hosting, team web pages with stats and full social network integration (such as twitter feeds etc).

Ultimately, I planned to provide a new means of tiering that was designed to share responsibility between all operators and address the issues raised by those who disliked the CTRA approach of a self contained tiered system.

My final vision would see it effectively as the primary web portal for LFS in all but forum, skin uploading, and lfs spectator (which I was also considering redoing but in true 3D, I have a prototype here which proved the concept), by which time I would hand it over either to the devs or to the LFS community as open source.

That was the plan anyway.

The Very End

14th August 2009, 10:53

Great post there!

Yeah, I have been stalking you a little on the facebook and I don't think it's a secret that you are searching for something new, fresh, or anything that ain't your old work-place :)

The system you describe, sounds absolutely brilliant. I love the mail / instant message thingy you mention. The only thing that I would question would be the rescources it used on these opreations, not the computer but the network itself. The speed wouldn't be a problem since the game uses like 4-5 kb/s download / upload when playing, and only time it increases are at track chance, layout change and skin download. With all these features as instant messaging and such it probally would demand some more.. or .. well I have no clue on these things, and I have enough line for it anyway, just question if it demands some extra kb/s.

As the other features, I would love to see them done with insim, but at same time I think it should be work for the developers to do. These are fairly small things, yet probally very hard to code. Rolling starts and the other things would be bloody awesome, but 1 - we would need a larger oval (even if rolling start works perfectly on normal road tracks) , 2 - again I think that would be a bitch to program in insim, and since it's such a great feature it should be implented in LFS.

The message system would be great. Some kind of system that would link up to sites, storage areas or other places where these messages were saved. But within game, or in the insim they would be able to be readed. Lets say it's linked to some kind of forum, storage, database or whatever for team X. Now the team leader desides he want to notify the team on a matter, so he makes a message in this folder. Lets say that all the other drivers were on a server with this insim applied on. Now they would get a little mail icon in one of the corners. The others could then push this icon to veiw the inbox, and then read the message. They could also reply to it from here.

I think it could be a very usefull feature for leagues, or other happening when you need to reach the members but don't have time waiting for the to read the forum, instead they could race and read the message between a race, or simply as they races / specates.

Becky Rose

14th August 2009, 11:02

The entire Blue 2 design revolves around a neural network. With Franky supporting the project and a few of the big teams already willing to run nodes on the network there is already sufficient bandwidth to connect to the entirety of LFS.

Basically Blue 2 doesnt run on 1 computer, it runs on a network of computers all over the world and all sharing the workload.

I think that would be a bitch to program in insim
Very little of the Blue 2 concept has not already been done in one form or another, it's just either never been done right or in a universal framework allowing it to run concurrently on so many servers at once. Even warm up laps have been done before (by myself and MoE).

Lets say it's linked to some kind of forum, storage, database or whatever for team X. Now the team leader desides he want to notify the team on a matter
That's aboslutely it, using 2 different types of messaging (IM and Mail) the system will allow communication ingame, all will integrate to a Skype/MSN style IM client available on multiple platforms, and the web portal - with group/league/personal messaging possible and in theory it should even be possible to link it into team forums (provided the teams are using the Blue 2 web portal rather than their own for their forums).

The Very End

14th August 2009, 11:48

That sounds great Becky! I hope you find the motivation and time to finish that project, because it really seems interesting!

A completely off topic, but somewhat linked question :

Can two insim's be runned at same server? Let's say if a server use Airo / Aero (or what that name is), would it somewhat be possible to combine those two insims? The one for point and statestics, while the other would allow all the other ultilities like messaged and chat etc?

Becky Rose

14th August 2009, 12:12

Yes, LFS servers (and clients) can handle multiple INSIM connections these days (if it did not I would just code a gateway like I did with the old LFS Companion).

The concept of Blue2 is to be complimentary, by being fully configurable in all but command access ( The $ symbol ) it would co-inhabit with all other systems and with each feature being configurable there should not be any compatibility or conflict issues.

The Very End

14th August 2009, 12:18

Superb, thumbs up for that :thumb:

Keep us updated on the progress. Maybe make a topic for that matter, a topic you can update every now and then when there is an update.
You should not feel that you have to update that topic, but update it when there is something worth mention.

-NightFly-

14th August 2009, 13:02

I still miss BnJ :shrug:
agreed

SidiousX

18th August 2009, 16:35

DaveWS

21st August 2009, 13:57

If we do have a return of a CTRA like system, this is a copy of the PM I sent to LR Race Center (who didn't respond), with my thoughts on how the points system could be bettered:

This is intended as constructive cristism for the points system used on your servers. I know you wanted to replace CTRA with your servers, and to an extent you have done. But I was never a fan of the CTRA points system either. The main problem I have with it is how it awards racers who drive the most races, regardless of how good they are. Basically as it is now, you need around 60(?) wins just to drive the TBO cars and get to advanced level. This is simply rediculous IMO.

A lot of people claimed when iRacing announced its "FIRST" licensing system that they were copying CTRA, which is absurd. In iRacing it's possible to complete only 60 races and still be ranked the 4th best rated driver (Greger Huttu) out of 10,000 + racers. This is simply not possible in any system similar to CTRA.

It works for several reasons:
- You can score relatively vast amounts points for a race win or above midpack
- You can LOSE just as many points for low finishes
- You score more or less points based on the average ranking of drivers in your race

What this means is it's possible to climb the ladder very quickly, but at the same time, it's possible to fall back down if you aren't a good enough driver.

In a CTRA like system, you can never lose points by finishing badly in a race, so it's a licensing system whereby how good a driver you are actually means shit. It's about completing as many races as you can.

This results in racing where 90% of anyone racing on your servers can only drive the slowest cars, and 9% of the ones who can drive the faster ones don't as it makes for boring racing. The remaining 1% who do drive a faster car in a full grid of XFG's end up winning race after race on their own while driving 5 seconds off the WR.

iRacing have got it right, it would be good to see something similar in LFS.

oldnavy

21st August 2009, 14:04

This Blue 2 sound good and if it would have scoring system like dave posted this would be better than CRTA or any other server.

P.s do i understand corectly that this blue 2 system will work similar to P2P?

Toddshooter

21st August 2009, 14:05

^^^^^What he said^^^^^:thumb: DaveWS I mean.

Becky Rose

21st August 2009, 14:33

P.s do i understand corectly that this blue 2 system will work similar to P2P?
no, p2p is a slightly different framework. Blue 2 is a neural network with a 'many to many to many to many' framework. Which if you ask me is just too many ;)...

Bad jokes aside, there are comparisons to p2p but the differences make it a poor example to use. Instead think of it as a cluster of stars (SQL servers) sat next to another cluster of stars (blue 2 nodes) sat next to another cluster of stars (lfs servers) sat next to another cluster of stars (end users).

Direct connections are then possible between any star in a cluster to any star in an adjacent cluster.

On another spiral arm is a web server (theoretically also a cluster although in practice just one) which connects to the SQL server and provides web functionality. Next to this is a cluster of 3rd party web servers that communicate to it via API's, such as the master server, twitter server, team web sites, and other related LFS servers, also in this cluster would be a chat relaying server to connect IMs between another cluster of IM client users and the SQL staging server.

Any point a cluster can appear or dissappear and another node within the cluster will replace it and do it's work. In practice what this meens is if Blue 2 for whatever reason lost connection to the server you are on, another node would pickup and ressume it's work - in practice, this would occur within 30 seconds to 2 minutes. Whether any session state data is lost in a crash is more complex, sadly not everything can persist between nodes.

Danke

21st August 2009, 14:39

I'm sure some oldies remember the STCC system as is was called prior to the CTRA X system. The scoring in the two was very different. STCC gave more points to mid-pack finishers than CTRA did. In the CTRA system, like Race Center, you had to finish pretty high up to get any kind of points.

I liked the scoring of the STCC system better, since I'm almost always mid-pack and I'm pretty clean, and I almost always finish. I like racing on Race Center, but I'm pretty sure I'll never be able to drive a TBO there. In the end, it's up to the people who run the server what kind of points system they want to use.

Becky Rose

21st August 2009, 14:59

I'm sure some oldies remember the STCC system as is was called prior to the CTRA X system. The scoring in the two was very different. STCC gave more points to mid-pack finishers than CTRA did. In the CTRA system, like Race Center, you had to finish pretty high up to get any kind of points.
The initial algorythm was exactly the same (although there where tweeks and changes over time, like the introduction of the clean racing bonus where the number of yellows you accrued could earn you more points than being fast). The biggest difference was that in patch X more people could race, and that in X system you could more clearly see what points everyone was earning.

Danke

21st August 2009, 15:07

Hmm, I swear the STCC system had a fairly sizable "finishing bonus" that applied no matter where you placed. It was there in CTRA too but it was much smaller relative to the license levels. Or it could be that my old brain is getting rusty.

Becky Rose

21st August 2009, 16:14

What DaveWS said touches upon something i'd been thinking myself. The original purpose of having points was a filter mechanism for the higher access server. It's my view that the whole of LFS can support two 'pro' servers concurrently - 1 tin top and 1 single seater, any more than that and the saturation of the player base keeps them empty. With no other model to go on I took elements of RPG like MMO's to provide an addictive element - this was no accident, it was by design - but you must also remember the whole concept was new at the time, so looking back we can now come up with a better approach.

Nowadays we need something more than that to sustain a good quality of racing and to open the servers up to more racers, i've spoken to many sim racers since the original system was devised at the various meets, and read many forum posts, soaking in views, and I do have an alternative system in theory, if not in specific design principle.

I wanted to provide more than one meens to gain access to the pro servers, which would change operator weekly to distribute stewarding, access to the pro servers would require earning a number of awards / badges, either whilst in the pro server (for those already qualified) or on any other server.

With Blue 2 in theory accessing all LFS servers thus you could earn the badges anywhere.

The badges themselves could also then be used to drive support to underused cars, one week one badge might be "Win a race with 10 or more starters in an LX4" and another being "Complete a 10 lap race with 100% clean laps (no yellows) in an FXO". The badges would generate randomly based upon current server selections and have different values - once enough badges where earned (for arguments sake lets say 6, with some badges being worth 2 or 3) - you'd have access to the pro servers until your badges expired (1 week).

Points systems could still be supported, and even run across server operators, for weekly and monthly pick-up racing leagues likes the CTRA GP points system, or even a lifetime league like the old licence levels, but access to the 'pro' servers wouldn't be based off this.

That is/was my vision for B2 anyway.

Anyway it looks like I might be looking for work again soon, so maybe i'll have the chance to code it lolz *sigh*...

Shotglass

21st August 2009, 19:35

The entire Blue 2 design revolves around a neural network. With Franky supporting the project and a few of the big teams already willing to run nodes on the network there is already sufficient bandwidth to connect to the entirety of LFS.

That's aboslutely it, using 2 different types of messaging (IM and Mail) the system will allow communication ingame, all will integrate to a Skype/MSN style IM client available on multiple platforms, and the web portal.

so lfs meets fidonet?

Place

31st August 2009, 13:28

I really just miss browsing the server list and seeing a full server that isn't some of the faster or open wheel cars. It was fun to drive around in the Uf1 or the XFG on a huge server trying to get a win and rack up some points. Now the L1 server has 1 player. Demo servers just don't cut it.

Hope something can be resurrected soon.

xaotik

1st September 2009, 09:46

The entire Blue 2 design revolves around a neural network.

Soon to be known as SkyNet. Keep a sharp eye out for future Connors.

Going by the description this sounds more like a distributed system than what would be called a neural network per se. Although I must admit the latter does sound catchier.

colcob

1st September 2009, 12:33

Never mind all that. Bring back the Clean Racers Club!

5haz

1st September 2009, 12:53

Gentlefoot

1st September 2009, 14:20

I liked CTRA because it was like a 'retard sponge' that mopped up all the idiots from the rest of the online community, meaning we could have a good race by giving it a wide berth, now CTRA is dead they flood the other servers I used to frequent.

Of course there were a minority of good racers on CTRA servers, always up the front, while everyone else crashed behind.

Is it just me that thinks Blue2 sounds a bit like Skynet? :p

Not sure I agree with that. I think the CTRA system resulted in a generally higher standard of driving than other servers that were less well controlled.

However, the fact that it was so popular did tend to keep the numbers lower on the other servers and smaller grids always result in a higher standard of racing simply because the drivers who are idiots stand out like sore thumbs.

zeugnimod

1st September 2009, 15:58

Not sure I agree with that. I think the CTRA system resulted in a generally higher standard of driving than other servers that were less well controlled.

On Race 2/SS 2 and above, it did.

On Race 1/SS 1, it certainly did not. IMO.

Shotglass

2nd September 2009, 00:52

Going by the description this sounds more like a distributed system than what would be called a neural network per se. Although I must admit the latter does sound catchier.

i think the current cutting edge buzzword for what shes describing is cloud computing
sounds a bit carebearish though... 10 points if you can guess which care bear tristan is

xaotik

2nd September 2009, 06:08

i think the current cutting edge buzzword for what shes describing is cloud computing
sounds a bit carebearish though... 10 points if you can guess which care bear tristan is

I admit to a childhood devoid of such fine points of education as care bear pedigree. So, as an adult seeking insight, I cheated and scrolled up and down the, alarmingly extensive, wikipedia entry for "care bears". Based on visual data acquired from said article and cross-referencing it to popular opinion I'd say he's probably expected to be this one (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/Grumpy_Bear.jpg).

Arsenic_Fox

2nd September 2009, 20:27

Personally, I just missed the good old racing. I miss the track layouts, I miss how the servers were almost ALWAYS full. I miss how when i raced i usually could say hi to a friendly face, or at least if i was losing a lot, i could ask for a bit of advice.

I also really miss the BnJ layouts... ;)

but this new idea sounds very promising, and almost seems like a very big undertaking. o.o I wish i could almost pay you to finish this project. XD

(but i have no job... > > and i'm 18 so i kinda need to start worrying about getting myself started in life... soooo.. yeah.. > >)

5haz

2nd September 2009, 20:39

Not sure I agree with that. I think the CTRA system resulted in a generally higher standard of driving than other servers that were less well controlled.

However, the fact that it was so popular did tend to keep the numbers lower on the other servers and smaller grids always result in a higher standard of racing simply because the drivers who are idiots stand out like sore thumbs.

The leading 5 or so were always very good drivers, behind them was always a storm of complete ineptitude. :shrug:

JohnPenn

2nd September 2009, 22:15

The leading 5 or so were always very good drivers, behind them was always a storm of complete ineptitude. :shrug:

I spent a huge amount of time on race1, mostly starting the back of the pack, my experiences were very positive:thumb:.

SamH

2nd September 2009, 22:51

Not sure I agree with that. I think the CTRA system resulted in a generally higher standard of driving than other servers that were less well controlled.
It was a principle motivation on UKCT's part to try to introduce a higher driving standard on public servers. League racing frequently had meticulous marshalling, but before STCC and then CTRA servers public server admining amounted to simply kicking and banning. Often peer voted. We set about changing two cultures - admin responsibility and driver accountability.

It's easy to forget or ignore what the culture was like before the CTRA, but I think the days of re-joining the track in the path of other drivers are over now. That was one of many culture changes that the CTRA, I think, can claim responsibility for in public server racing.

However, the fact that it was so popular did tend to keep the numbers lower on the other servers and smaller grids always result in a higher standard of racing simply because the drivers who are idiots stand out like sore thumbs.

The CTRA attracted drivers from across the entire spectrum of the LFS community. Whatever you have to say about the standards of driving in the CTRA public servers can be, generally, said of any other public server at the time. It's long gone, now, and I've no longer any emotional attachment to it. I can reflect on the CTRA days and simply recognise that we worked with what we had, and what we had to work with was whoever turned up to race. Nothing more, nothing less. We did our best for as long as we could, and then when it died, it was very very dead.

@ 5haz, say what you want about the driving standards in CTRA, but there were 2x as many reports filed against you in the CTRA system than you filed yourself. ;)

5haz

2nd September 2009, 22:57

@ 5haz, say what you want about the driving standards in CTRA, but there were 2x as many reports filed against you in the CTRA system than you filed yourself. ;)

Because I took to telling other drivers what I thought about them, obviously they didn't like what I said. This was mainly due to frustration at having absolutely no way to get people who clearly should not be racing online off the grid, regardless of how many reports you filed against them.

And I only ever filed about 2 reports, because the system was so difficult to maintain(?), reports were largely ineffective. My page on the site said I never had any reports filed against me anyway. :rolleyes:

This is a problem with popular servers running fancy insim systems, they often punish those who turn up to have a proper race and get pissed off rather than those who are not in control of their cars or are completely oblivious to the presence of other cars.

The problem was/is not unique to CTRA, any popular server is usually full of idiots, racing with +26 grids on road courses simply does not work. Especially if half the grid haven't even yet mastered their cars in a straight line, or don't understand what blue flags mean.

I have since learn't to give popular servers a wide berth, and I have a lot more fun as a result.

Bump and Jump was one exception though.

SamH

2nd September 2009, 23:20

I agree with you (we ran smaller grids on lower ranked servers) in the main, but it's too easy to criticize everyone else's driving. My experience - and it is VAST experience - is that the drivers who are quickest to criticize other drivers are in fact the ones lacking fundamental skills. Whether it's basic driving ability or lack of spatial awareness, bullish and irresponsible driving or a multitude of other possible driver facets, they are the ones that lack SOMEthing.

Considering I've reviewed literally thousands of LFS "incidents", one might expect me to be pretty jaded about the standards of driving in LFS. I think I've seen the worst that the community has to offer (and had the pleasure of banning it :D) but in fact I'm satisfied that an overwhelming majority of active LFSers do actually try to drive well. They try to learn from their mistakes, they DO share what they learn with others, and they are a good bunch.

As time went on, I became uncomfortable with the power that the CTRA accumulated. I wasn't happy that a ban from the CTRA system could render an LFS licence almost useless to some license holders. Too many people regarded the CTRA as the ONLY place to race, and while we set about doing our best to deliver an amazing service, we never expected 2 years down the road to still be the only server system operating at that level.

That kind of responsibility is something I'll take on if you pay me, but ONLY if you pay me. I'm not a megalomaniac, and on a very fundamental level the CTRA became something that carried very little appeal to me. Not because of the system, not because of the racers, but because of the lack of alternatives.

Now the CTRA has gone, other systems have arrived on the scene to try to fill the gap, and I'm really glad about that. I know that much of the ethos we tried to develop in the CTRA days has been adopted by others, and that works for me. I think we set a tone, but I'm glad that it's up to others now to run with it.

5haz

2nd September 2009, 23:31

Sometimes I think what a really powerful and popular system of servers needs to run properly is a megalomaniac, so what if a ban results in a user not being able to race on the one server they ever raced on, if they were driving in such a way that resulted in them being banned then they deserve it IMO.

I know systems where certain trusted members who frequent the server are given limited admin powers, the result being that any idiotic driving is dealt with in a matter of seconds rather than not at all, making the whole racing experience much less frustrating for everyone. Of course the whole thing relies on trust, but from what I've seen, these limited admins can be relied upon to be level headed enough.

The rest of CTRA was a grand idea, the system for dealing with bad driving is the only thing that I really really hated.

Arsenic_Fox

3rd September 2009, 06:32

But... that's just it....

Sure CTRA is dead... but the object of having a public server we can all enjoy surely can't be dead entirely. If it is, this game will eventually fall to the likes of iRacing. (I've had more continuous fun races on there than I've had on here. Actually, I've only had one true experience as fun as CTRA and that was on Old-skool racing or something like that. Pretty fun. Only raced KY1 though. =/

Race 1 was my personal favorite. Alway enjoyed it. Occasionally won, occasionally didn't. I didn't worry about my license. I just liked the close racing, the fun layouts, the enjoyable atmosphere. And the BnJ server was always a great stress relief. Much better than these now annoying cruise servers. Seriously, they just remind me of my obnoxious cousin. "Oh lets not race... lets just cruise..." ..... but this is Need for Spee... "Oh... nonono... we're not racing. We're just cruising. Look at me and my... JAGuARR"......

I mean.. if that sounds offending to gays... sorry.. but he does talk like that.
> > So... my point is.. even if i have to do it myself, is it possible to bring back the soul of CTRA. Not the licenses, not the points, but the racing itself. Is that possible? I mean, even in it's prime, NR2003 had OpenSpeedway and TeamXtremeRacing (i think thats what it was call o.O), the two most popular public servers at the time. OpenSpeedway STILL exists, and i have the joy to be a part of a 30 man race. A 30 man race, with NO server browser. Sierra took that offline. Now if you're still getting 30 people in at one time, you're doin something right. But i realize it was all because the racing was close, you know it's there, and people will join.

We just need a server like that. Sound impossible, but can be done... and i personally think it should be, but hey, thats just one guys opinion.