Adelaide as a track? [Archive]

kwijibo

27th March 2006, 08:36

I know LFS has no 'real' tracks due to licensing fees and what not.. but I figured that is possibly because most tracks are privately owned?

The Adelaide street circuit (http://www.clipsal500.com.au/2006/images_06/3_trackmap/Track-Map-2006-0123_001.jpg) may be possible as its mostly handled by the government, and they're always looking for ways to promote Adelaide anyway :)

What better way than being in LFS! Both parties win :D

DeXteRrBDN

27th March 2006, 09:47

Hyperactive

27th March 2006, 14:27

The best part of that track is the section of corners after the back straight, before the start/finish line. The track is available for GPL and I guess it's quite similar. All the corners of this track are hard in GPL ;)

hrtburnout

27th March 2006, 15:06

Devs!!!!

axus

27th March 2006, 15:41

Yes! Please! :D

NotAnIllusion

27th March 2006, 15:51

Wasn't Adelaide in the F1 calendar in the 90s? I'm sure I drove it in Geoff Crammond's F1GP. Very interesting track :D

Bramski

27th March 2006, 15:55

In that case why not just have the Nordschleife as that's a public road.

Immmagine............

Blackout

27th March 2006, 16:10

Wasn't Adelaide in the F1 calendar in the 90s?

Yes it was, Häkkinen had that bad crash there.

BuddY ChRisT

27th March 2006, 23:13

and why not LeMans!! well its owned by ACO (Automobile Club de l'Ouest) so its not really public, although the Hunaudières straight is a public road! imagine the FZR in that fabulous straight !!:razz::tilt: vavavooooooooouuuuuummm, but you're right Bramski , i want the nurburgring so baaaaadd too!!!

Goop

27th March 2006, 23:41

T8 at Adelaide in GTRs! :schwitz::up:

Rappa Z

27th March 2006, 23:43

Nurnburgring...Nurnburgring...Nurnburgring...Nurnb urgring...Nurnburgring...Nurnburgring...Nurnburgri ng
I see others have google earth

Hankstar

27th March 2006, 23:55

It would be awesome to Adelaide in LFS. It was the F1 GP track from 85-96 and was revered as one of the best street circuits in the world. It's still in use as a V8 Supercar track. I used to live across the road, earlier this century, and I'd ride into the city to work across the infield section (set in a horse-racing course) during the build-up to the big V8 race they have there every year (Clipsal 500, awesome event - just had it last weekend). Eventually they fence it all off but for a time you can just wander around pit straight where all the stands and pit garages were being built. Quite a nice ride to work actually! You go across the horse track and you're at the final hairpin, then you ride down the pit straight and through T1/2 (Senna Chicane - awesome), out of the parklands and you're in the city..

In the late 90s (I think) they started using a shorter sprint version of the track for the V8s. That's the version with the turn of death, the 200kmh Turn 8 (I think they should just call it "Safety Car Corner")...it certainly claimed its fair share of victims at the 500 this year :yikes: I can just imagine the carnage if 2 guys tried to go side-by-side through there in GTRs :eek:

This would definitely be a great LFS track (both versions are available for GPL and there's a sprint version for the netKar namie). Who knows if we'll ever see it, but there's nothing wrong with dreaming..

kwijibo

28th March 2006, 06:15

I realise there are probably numerous other non-private tracks around too.. but I thought this would be a case of both parties wanting to work together, kinda like the MRT thing.

It'd be good that it could have 2 configurations too, the old F1 track and the newer V8 track. :thumb: if it happens, I'll live if it doesn't :)

AleksejBASOwarrior

28th March 2006, 12:21

In that case why not just have the Nordschleife as that's a public road.

Immmagine............

Or...

Whats the problem to make same track as some "real" but jaust not call it like in real....?

It could may be solutions.

sgt.flippy

28th March 2006, 12:26

How about this track: http://www.eyes-e-tools.com//customer/circuitZolder/Update/upload/track%20lay%20out%20hi%20res.gif

It was in dtm race driver 1, it's not a very very hard circuit, but it has it's chicanes, a very nice hill, and a hard right before the last chicane.

farcar

28th March 2006, 13:22

There are a million public circuts, and there may well be legal reasons they can't be used in LFS. Sponsors who host the races for example? :shrug:

Anyway, I also remember the devs saying they don't have a huge interest in making RL tracks for LFS. Sorry to disappoint, but I don't think it'll happen soon.

Hyperactive

28th March 2006, 13:47

It seems the (based on the older layout) GPL version is little different. http://pirenzo1.tripod.com/pirenzo-gpl/tracks/Adelaide.html

Don't know how good the GPL version is/was though :)

Primoz

28th March 2006, 14:42

Did the F1 adelaide track go straight at the top, through the chciane and around G6 (gate 6)?

tristancliffe

28th March 2006, 19:11

Certainly did - but the fast kink in the old straight was too severe (nearly killing Häkkinen, but due to an emergency tracheostomy with a pen he only suffered deafness in one ear, and even that improved), so they made the track duller to cope.

Sorry about the typo, I do know how to spell Häkkinen (though you'd be lucky to get the ä normally).

Blackout

28th March 2006, 19:30

Häkkinen tristan, with two ks and with ä...just had to say that.

Primoz

28th March 2006, 20:14

What with a pen??? :Looking_a

farcar

28th March 2006, 20:48

I saw a GP in Adelaide in '93 - Senna's last victory. Awesome time.
PS the kink in the current layout is lethal too for the V8s who currently race there. There have been a few huge accidents.

Becky Rose

28th March 2006, 20:57

One of my great hopes is that eventually we can have user made tracks in LFS with automatic track downloading. I for one would like to make a few tracks. Fan-media is a great way to navigate license fee's as it's freely distributed.

Re Le Mans: The start/finish section is not public road and is privately owned so couldn't be done freely, infact there's numerous circuit configurations there for club racing all around the start/finish section - there's some motorbike race school there too of some kind.

One track i'd like to see is Baathurst rather than Adelaide or the 'ring - that'd be awesome with a 'Holden' V8 :). I didn't think the 'ring had been used for racing in decades - was it '77/78 or thereabouts when they closed it? I may be wrong as I am no expert on the tracks history but I thought it only opened again as a track day course in recent years ?

There's some interesting oddities in the back catalogue of F1 too such as Ajax which was basically a section autobarn where the cars turned around at motorway junctions and then blasted back down for the return section (which would please the drag crowd who want a 'real' race!)

If user made tracks did become a reality we might also get Spa Francochamps ... which lets face it: Is the greatest race circuit in the world, ever.

Hankstar

28th March 2006, 21:55

Ajax ... do you mean Avus? Because that was basically up one side of an autobahn, around a right kink then a tight left hairpin, down the other side of the autobahn, round a ridiculously steep banked turn (which was paved with bricks!), start again...an insanely fun and deadly track in a 3 litre 400hp GPL banger :nod:
They stopped using it during the 50s I think as it claimed a few lives. Big surprise.

Becky Rose

28th March 2006, 22:10

Yes I believe I do mean Avus, your description is about right. I *think* it was only used once but what a great concept :)

clp

28th March 2006, 23:37

Certainly did - but the fast kink in the old straight was too severe (nearly killing Häkkinen, but due to an emergency tracheostomy with a pen he only suffered deafness in one ear, and even that improved), so they made the track duller to cope.

Actually, not true.

The shorter circuit is used for the local V8 race while the longer circuit is/has been used for the international races (eg F1 and the single 6 hour race held on new years eve a number of years ago)

The fast kink on the longer circuit (linking Jones and Brabham straights) had a bunch of raised kerbs that don't show up on that track map that tightened up the corner and forced cars to slow (at least a bit!) .. in fact, those kerbs are still there! :)

The newer, shorter version has a flat out kink which seems to be much more dangerous due in part to the lack of run off. So it's certainly not "duller" in that particular area!

IMO the longer track which included the off camber S bend near Gate 5 and the stag corner at Gate 6 was a much more interesting circuit :shrug:

CLP

Hyperactive

28th March 2006, 23:46

One track i'd like to see is Baathurst rather than Adelaide or the 'ring - that'd be awesome with a 'Holden' V8 :). I didn't think the 'ring had been used for racing in decades - was it '77/78 or thereabouts when they closed it? I may be wrong as I am no expert on the tracks history but I thought it only opened again as a track day course in recent years ?

Yes, Bathurst rocks (in GPL at least).

If user made tracks did become a reality we might also get Spa Francochamps ... which lets face it: Is the greatest race circuit in the world, ever.

Spa.. It seems everybody else likes it except me. But let's forget Spa and let's have Laguna seca, the old mexican track from GPL and some modern (boring) track from F1, like Bahrain or the Turkish track :)

Armchair Expert

29th March 2006, 00:47

By the way, I wonder why LFS creators do not allow fans of the game to create and custom tracks, like it is made for years with GPL.

I think that the possibility of creating tracks - real and fictional ones - by fans would make LFS a game to stay at the top for many, many years.

Hankstar

29th March 2006, 01:14

By the way, I wonder why LFS creators do not allow fans of the game to create and custom tracks, like it is made for years with GPL.

Because it's a totally different situation: the track-making tools and dozens of other utilities available for GPL were made by GPL fans in the years after the game's release (and after Papyrus/Sierra left the title alone because it didn't sell well, and noone had a PC tough enough to run it properly). I believe the only after-market GPL tool actually made by Papyrus was a patch that allowed you to run GPL on a faster CPU than were being used in 1998 (when GPL was released). Basically, you have the GPL community alone to thank for all 500 available tracks (except the 11 that come with the game), countless track and car addons as well as every single GPL utility that's available. Not to mention the 1965 and 69 season mods, the upcoming 1968 Tasman season mod and the (somewhat in the distance) 1950s and 1930s mods...

I think that the possibility of creating tracks - real and fictional ones - by fans would make LFS a game to stay at the top for many, many years.

I'd like that too, especially if it meant people would make Adelaide, Nordschliefe, Bathurst, Lime Rock, Lobethal or any track really...there are that many in the world now, and so many extinct classic tracks that we'd never run out of places to race :nod: Realistically though, we shouldn't expect to see any developer kits until after S3, if ever...

Hankstar

29th March 2006, 02:00

... someone (I forget who) - upon hearing a suggestion that LFS should be mod-able - always posts a bunch of screengrabs of truly nasty-looking mod content from GPL and rFactor.

Oi! There's no nasty-looking content in GPL mods, ever! :D and there's only 2 mods anyway ('65 and '69) ... in fact it's so damn difficult to create tracks or update graphics that only the most dedicated editors even bother - consequently each new track is like a work of art, and historically accurate to the point of being seriously anal (it needs to be or the Realism Police cart 'em off to Gitmo)...as for mods, well it's even more difficult to mess with GPL physics, so it's not like anyone can just open it up and make a new mod. The makers never even considered it when making GPL so, as with the other GPL editing tools, the guys who wanted to make the 1965 Mod (the first GPL mod - came out in 2004) had to basically crack GPL's exe and then spent years figuring out what did what and how to adjust it and testing everything ad nauseam ... messing with GPL's code makes mapping the human genome look like doing a google search :)

Just FYI ;)
Any dodginess you've seen must be from another game or screens of a WIP...

deggis

29th March 2006, 02:24

People just don't get it that this is as close we get to Nordschleife. :shrug:

http://www.torttu.net/temp/lfs/lfs_nurburgring.jpg
(sorry, it's old, I've posted it here numerious times :D)

Hankstar

29th March 2006, 02:31

:D It's as funny as it was the first time I saw it :zombie:

Gimpster

29th March 2006, 07:10

LFS is not support or allow user created cars and tracks until after S2 is final or the sim is abandoned by the devs, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with the potential quality of user created mods, licencing issues are any other reason mentioned here. There is one simple reason and nothing we say can or will change then fact, its a dead subject.

What is the difference between then Demo of LFS and S2? It not the features, its not he physics, its the content, the cars and tracks. Now with the only thing you are buying being the cars and tracks, where does that leave the devs if they allow you to make your own cars and tracks?

It leaves them no longer in control of their sim, their dream, their lively hood. It would mean then end of development of LFS and the physics would never improve, new features will never get added and you would have a half finished sim for which you can build cars and tracks. :pillepall

Personaly I would rather see the sim finished, with dam good physics, loads of useful features and when its finished a set of dev tools to build then cars and tracks I want to drive and drive on.

Takumi_Project.d

29th March 2006, 07:48

the only problem i see if you were to use adelaide is you'd almost certainly need some alternate configs, otherwise you're modelling the city environment for only 1 config, and also the reverse varient.

in the end there are lots of tracks we'd love to see in LFS, but license fees are another thing. i reckon the devs are being very respectful, in that all names of cars, tracks and the content itself bares little resemblance to real tracks or real cars.

originality is one of LFS's strong points IMO. :thumb: eric does amazing tracks, and whilst adelaide would be nice, if there's only the 1 current config i reckon people would get bored fairly quickly.

farcar

29th March 2006, 08:56

I'd agree with you were it not for the fact that someone (I forget who) - upon hearing a suggestion that LFS should be mod-able - always posts a bunch of screengrabs of truly nasty-looking mod content from GPL and rFactor.
Don has posted some links that I've seen. Here it is:

http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=342047&d=1136933280

Still makes me laugh. :hihi:

Sternendaal

29th March 2006, 09:27

Bramski

29th March 2006, 10:16

As much as I would like to see all these new tracks and cars, I'd much rather LFS remained closed to modding at the present moment. I think that modding can fragment a community, just look at rFactor for an example. I'm not bashing rF here as I actually enjoy driving some of the mods, but it's difficult to get a decent game online because everybody is playing different mods with different tracks and you need to have the right files or it ends up a lesson in frustration.

deggis

29th March 2006, 20:02

Don has posted some links that I've seen. Here it is:

http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=342047&d=1136933280

Still makes me laugh. :hihi:
Well, you could take a same kind of pic from LFS...

farcar

29th March 2006, 20:48

Well, you could take a same kind of pic from LFS...

Really? Show me!

deggis

29th March 2006, 21:19

Really? Show me!
Not literally... but compare that unpresentative screenshot (from some unfinished crappy mod and probably not even taken with full gfx settings) to the recent screens of the NAGT mod for instance: http://thepits.us/board/viewtopic.php?t=4647&sid=69a7c1c8b75d4bb2cc552b9c54930b40

Got the point?

And I don't even have rFactor, so I'm not a rFactor fan. :)

farcar

30th March 2006, 06:52

Not literally... but compare that unpresentative screenshot (from some unfinished crappy mod and probably not even taken with full gfx settings) to the recent screens of the NAGT mod for instance: http://thepits.us/board/viewtopic.php?t=4647&sid=69a7c1c8b75d4bb2cc552b9c54930b40

Got the point?

And I don't even have rFactor, so I'm not a rFactor fan. :)

Erm that's not a link to screenshots of LFS looking crappy.
Your link proves that good mods can be made as well as bad ones. I already know that. :D
The main concern is the good to bad mod ratio.

kwijibo

30th March 2006, 10:15

Well.. this thread went off in unintended directions didnt it? :shrug:

Hyperactive

30th March 2006, 12:26

It is impossible to have a thread about a new track without people mentioning the 'ring or suggesting other new tracks to LFS ;)

Hankstar

30th March 2006, 23:40

Track threads going OT: a certainty of the huamn condition, just like death and taxes :nod:

Macfox

29th April 2006, 08:26

I would love to see the devs include this track.

If Eric/Scawen is serious about this, I will chase up the "detailed" road plans from work to exact measurements. Working for Transp0rt SA has some advantages.

Adelaide has an advantage over other Road tracks in that it has two configurations, F1 and Sprint. The latter is shorter and omitts two famous crash corners. Stag and the well known corner Hakkinen crashed on.

Bathurst is also a public road however it isn't a maintained by Vic Roads, but rather the district. Not too sure who would have the plans in this case.

Rob

TFalke55

29th April 2006, 11:10

In that case why not just have the Nordschleife as that's a public road.

Immmagine............

The Nürburgring Nordschleife is owened by the Nürburgring... (I know sounds a little bit silly) but the Nürburgring is a Compeny too. You have to pay to drive on it.

Ajax ... do you mean Avus? Because that was basically up one side of an autobahn, around a right kink then a tight left hairpin, down the other side of the autobahn, round a ridiculously steep banked turn (which was paved with bricks!), start again...an insanely fun and deadly track in a 3 litre 400hp GPL banger :nod:
They stopped using it during the 50s I think as it claimed a few lives. Big surprise.

The AVUS would be possible because it haven't been existing a motorsport race on it since '99. Only a few bike races. The Eurospeedway Lausitz was built as alternative to the AVUS.

Bluebird B B

30th April 2006, 14:07

It seems the (based on the older layout) GPL version is little different. http://pirenzo1.tripod.com/pirenzo-gpl/tracks/Adelaide.html

Don't know how good the GPL version is/was though :)

Yes, thats the correct configuration :D

TFalke55

1st May 2006, 09:20

I've got found two links about race tracks.

http://www.etracksonline.co.uk/

http://www.racingcircuits.net/

The two pages are showing race tracks including the facts. There are "Track proposals" and closed tracks too. From hill climbing over ice racing tracks and dirt tracks, to the huge Ovals, Rovals and Roadcourses all around the world. The second page has got the most tracks, all are real. The first one have got a Fantasy Track area, too, which are looking like real Race Track plans.

Bramski

1st May 2006, 10:17

The Nürburgring Nordschleife is owened by the Nürburgring... (I know sounds a little bit silly) but the Nürburgring is a Compeny too. You have to pay to drive on it.

I thought you paid to drive the Nordshleife because it is a public access, one way, toll road. I dont know how it works in Germany, but in the UK, if a road is public then you can't charge people to drive on it.

TFalke55

1st May 2006, 10:47

I thought you paid to drive the Nordshleife because it is a public access, one way, toll road. I dont know how it works in Germany, but in the UK, if a road is public then you can't charge people to drive on it.

maybe It was unclearly said by me: The Nordschleife is a 100% Race-Track, a privat road track. So everyone who wants to drive one lap have to pay e.g. 7€. It's owened by the Nürburgring. And there are two racing games I know (GT4 & PGR2) which took the Nürburgring under licence.

here the english HP of the Nürburgring http://www.nuerburgring.de/home/index.html?L=1

We should make a list of race tracks we would like to see. Maybe including Fatasy Track areas.

Bramski

1st May 2006, 10:55

The Nurburgring is a 100% race track, but the Nordschleife is a public toll road.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=nordschleife+public+road&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

duke_toaster

1st May 2006, 11:05

And there are two racing games I know (GT4 & PGR2) which took the Nürburgring under licence..

Also, Forza and GPL.

TFalke55

1st May 2006, 11:08

The Nurburgring is a 100% race track, but the Nordschleife is a public toll road.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=nordschleife+public+road&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Well... ok... but the Nordschleife is used minimumly ten times a year as a Race track for endurance races. And you can only drive on the Nordschleife when it's opened. The opening times are on the Nürburgring page. It's normally not opened the whole day, only a few houres. The rest of the day the track can be booked by a "Driving Training Group" or by BMW, Mercedes and so on. As test track.

Also, Forza and GPL.

Well... I did't know these games.