Drifting? [Archive] - Live for Speed

Jethro!

24th March 2006, 20:00

I guess this is going to be the dumbest noob question of all time, but here goes...

WTF IS DRIFTING!? :shrug:

I see all these lame servers with "Drift" in the name and have learned that no one in these servers race.
OK, it's boring to just turn practice laps on a multi player server but to each his own.

So the other day I joined one of these "Drift" servers just to run a few laps on Blackwood and went about my business, racing a few laps... tweaking my setup... etc.
Then someone messages me that "This is a DRIFT server" :pillepall

What exactly is a Drift server and what exactly are drivers expected to do there?

Roadie

24th March 2006, 20:05

uhhh, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drifting_%28motorsport%29

Rappa Z

24th March 2006, 20:07

Drifty is a street thing imported to the US from Japan. drift is when the car slides through a turn on a certain angle like here...

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/11011/mzc-drifting001.jpg

kamkorPL

24th March 2006, 20:21

I think there's no need to call things lame, when you have no idea about them. :D

Jethro!

24th March 2006, 20:46

I think there's no need to call things lame, when you have no idea about them.

Well now that I have been enlightened by a kind LFS'er (Thank you Rappa Z) I can say without question that DRIFTING IS LAME!

You guys just join a server and slide your cars sideways through turns endlessly? Never racing just sliding into and out of turns over and over? :pillepall

That sounds like buying Battlefield 2 and designating your server to practice dance moves. "Hey! NO shooting allowed!" :thumb:

Tooby

24th March 2006, 20:53

Well now that I have been enlightened by a kind LFS'er (Thank you Rappa Z) I can say without question that DRIFTING IS LAME!

You guys just join a server and slide your cars sideways through turns endlessly? Never racing just sliding into and out of turns over and over? :pillepall

That sounds like buying Battlefield 2 and designating your server to practice dance moves. "Hey! NO shooting allowed!" :thumb:
What is the point of looking down on people that likes to drift? Let them do what they like. You can always join a race server and meet racers there.

Gabkicks

24th March 2006, 21:30

dont you love it when people let you know just how ignorant they are :p. thx for sharing jethro. :thumb:

drifting well requires alot of skill. just like winning a race against great opponents takes skill. just one is more subjectivly judged than the other.

filur

24th March 2006, 21:37

Driving is driving, i don't really care if you race or drift, any good driver has my full respect, but there's more to being a good driver than simply being very fast or incredibly sideways, and as long as you have that you have my respect.

Best post i've read on the subject.

Jethro!

24th March 2006, 21:39

dont you love it when people let you know just how ignorant they are :p. thx for sharing jethro. :thumb:

I have been exposed! I hope my wife doesn't leave me when she learns of my Live for speed Drifting ignorance!

I don't care if you guys want to drift, race backwards or use LFS as a drive in movie simulator.

I just think it's rediculous to jump on someone for driving around the track in a normal fashion, especially when I don't interfere with your "drifting" in any way.

Hankstar

24th March 2006, 21:44

Rally drivers wouldn't get anywhere without dirfting skills, pre-wing F1 drivers used drift a lot (not the showy mega-sideways stuff, proper four-wheel drift) and most pro drivers would say that being able to drift is a useful skill - in case you accidentally get the car sideways and need to correct. While I don't get off on showy drifting and never enter drift servers (I'm a dedicated gripper) I do appreciate the skill involved and don't consider it lame. Although I don't consider it sport - it's closer to figure-skating imho :)

tbh though, I found this pretty funny:
That sounds like buying Battlefield 2 and designating your server to practice dance moves.
:D

xapexcivicx

24th March 2006, 21:59

I just think it's rediculous to jump on someone for driving around the track in a normal fashion, especially when I don't interfere with your "drifting" in any way.
And I'm sure if a person went in a race server and drifted you wouldn't yell at him, right?

Stop flaming other forms of motorsports, it's absolutely retarded. Come on now people.

P.S. God only knows how many times drifting experience has saved me, and many others during races. It helps alot, lets you understand your car to the fullest extend in terms of control. But I'm sure that you know that already, since you would NEVER make fun of something that you have absolutely no idea about, RIGHT? :)

XCNuse

24th March 2006, 22:37

Rally drivers wouldn't get anywhere without dirfting skills
exactly.. thats why former rally driver Rhys Millen is #1 :thumb:

vic_gt

25th March 2006, 00:19

Well now that I have been enlightened by a kind LFS'er (Thank you Rappa Z) I can say without question that DRIFTING IS LAME!

You guys just join a server and slide your cars sideways through turns endlessly? Never racing just sliding into and out of turns over and over? :pillepall

That sounds like buying Battlefield 2 and designating your server to practice dance moves. "Hey! NO shooting allowed!" :thumb:

try it, you will love it..
its addictive AND it helps alot in developing your countersteering skills.

Hatemaker

25th March 2006, 01:04

Okay, woah, woah, WOAH! If you say drifting is pointless, I've gotta say that you're wrong my friend. On the track in real life, it's saved my life several times, especially one day when I got to drive the Nürgurgring. I went a bit airborn and almost lost control. If I had, I would have been dead, but thankfully, I was able to keep my car on course through the corner, even though I was facing the inside of the corner at about a 70 degree angle. In a Porsche, that's not that easy of a thing to do, and requires skill. Now, In LFS, it's saved me countless times as well, from arrogant people that tap your inside corner and try to make it look like an accident. I've been able to drift thorugh and save my car from loosing control, keeping me in the race. Later, the guy has cut accros me too close in a corner, and clipped me, spinning around, due to a lack of control. When he asked me how I could control my car so well when the back end came loose, I told him that I used to drift a lot, and still like to every once and a while to keep the skill up. Not only that, but having good car control like that, looks absolutely sexy.:thumb:

SamH

25th March 2006, 01:46

That sounds like buying Battlefield 2 and designating your server to practice dance moves. "Hey! NO shooting allowed!" :thumb:

It's not our fault that TeamCCUK members are dyslexic. We misread the box when we installed what we thought was Balletfield2 on the server. Anyone doing line dancing is kicked, though, I swear!

Takumi_Project.d

25th March 2006, 02:42

Impreza WRX

25th March 2006, 03:54

I don't care if you guys want to ... use LFS as a drive in movie simulator.

:rofl:

Now how would we go about doing that? :scratchch

Gabkicks

25th March 2006, 04:10

edit the textures of one of the billboards and make it into a really really long animated GIF?:shrug:

lrdbsi

25th March 2006, 07:40

yes drifting is a bit of fun :) rally drivers do use it because of the often slippery road surfaces and their 4wd cars, helps them to be facing in the right direction on exit so they can put the power down.

on tarmac however, people can argue that you get quicker times drifting certain tracks but i've never seen an example of this. grip racing will always lead to quicker lap times, drifting is more about putting on a bit of a show and having some fun.

i'd advise you keep out of the demo drift servers though, i went back there a few times and its quite scary how they treat people they dont know :schwitz: doesn't give drifters a good name at all

yes yes ur are very right but
initialy drift was not for show or fun, it was wat happened it u powerovered or oversteered into a corner, they used this and throttle control combined with correct amounts of counter - steer to get around a corner faster, but yes aindy car wil go faster round a track with traction, but in some cars on some tracks, drift is needed to push the time-beating line. this is been proven

Takumi_Project.d

25th March 2006, 08:36

but in some cars on some tracks, drift is needed to push the time-beating line. this is been proven

proven? where? when? this is exactly what im talking about! people say it's been proven but never are there results or links to comparison of what a car can do gripping and drifting times around a tarmac circuit :shrug:

in all forms of racing (including F1) there are always very very small amounts of sliding when they corner on the limit but as its so small you dont even see it on tv.

if you can show me info on a proper drift lap and a proper grip lap on a circuit using the same car for both... but until then, nothings proven at all ;) "some cars on some tracks" isnt really helpful ;)

OPK

25th March 2006, 08:49

It's not our fault that TeamCCUK members are dyslexic. We misread the box when we installed what we thought was Balletfield2 on the server. Anyone doing line dancing is kicked, though, I swear!

ROFL
Hahahaha, best post this day :D :tilt:

farique

25th March 2006, 09:25

wow.. didnt know that in LFS with S2 lincense also such an arrogant.

where is he btw?

I think he learnt his lesson.

Becky Rose

25th March 2006, 09:44

I must admit I dont really understand it, counter steering and power sliding are part of racing and not the race itself, but then again to each their own. I dont go down to the town pool and shout at the syncronised swimming team because I want to do a few laps.

guybrush

25th March 2006, 10:28

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2394234277824545689&q=senna

:)

Drift_junki3

25th March 2006, 10:33

if you can show me info on a proper drift lap and a proper grip lap on a circuit using the same car for both... but until then, nothings proven at all ;) "some cars on some tracks" isnt really helpful ;)

Have you seen the Best Motoring Drift Bible DVD? Keiichi Tsuchiya (drift king) demonstrates exactly that with a drift s14 silvia. To me it looks like he can keep up with the ghost fine using the speed drift technique.

shim

25th March 2006, 10:34

i do drift heaps, but i also race now and then.. but drifting has helped my racing skills out heaps.. like if i put me foot down and the ass end starts to slide out, i do counter just the right amount and drift out the corner instead of spinning like a lot of ppl who cant drift :)

Takumi_Project.d

25th March 2006, 10:41

Have you seen the Best Motoring Drift Bible DVD? Keiichi Tsuchiya (drift king) demonstrates exactly that with a drift s14 silvia. To me it looks like he can keep up with the ghost fine using the speed drift technique.

:shrug: always seemed to be slightly behind in all of them though. no lap times to compare, and that senna vid is just 1 corner :thumb:

i like drifting but i just dont agree with that comment ;)

Theafro

25th March 2006, 11:30

It seems to me we should all just take sides and fight it out. there's absolutely no way that racers and drifters could possibly co-exist!

I mean it's not like there's a choice of server out there or anything.:D

And we should completely ban noobs too!:Looking_a

sgt.flippy

25th March 2006, 11:30

This makes me think about the top gear track. I just depends on the car, The Stig can still make very good laptimes with a car with bad rear traction. He can slide through the corners, and still have a very good laptime. He needs some drifting experience too for this kinda stuff.

O/T: Who knows where all the top gear videos went to on video google? I used to get a whole lot of new and very old eppisodes, now I only get dumbass people racing their ferrari in top gear or something.

And we should completely ban noobs too!

I'll leave :( :Kick_Can_

tristancliffe

25th March 2006, 11:44

I'll just add my comments, even if they are unwelcome :p

When your racing along in a normal, sensible fashion, and you lose the back end and have to catch it with opposite lock, then that is NOT DRIFTING. Not even slightly. The term 4-Wheel-Drift (for example) was not invented because Jim Clark put shiny wheels on his car, decal on backwards and used red tyres. No one in DTM EVER drifts. No one in F1 EVER drifts. Drifting is NOT in racing. Catching slides is a necessary evil, and any racer worth his weight in salt can catch slides.

Drifting is when you purposely get the back end of the car at huge angles, maybe with two or three cars side by side, so that you can be judged on style, speed, angle, entry, exit etc. It takes a lot of skill (I have tried it thank you very much), although I believe the RANGE of skills to be much much less. Oh, and it is 100% impossible to DRIFT a FWD car. They are just skids, and it's not the same. If I ask you to hold a 45 degree drift round a skid pan at 60mph you couldn't do it in a FWD car...

The other factor is that the size of the drift community here in LFS is becuase of the dodgy tyre physics at slow speeds and recovering grip. When that is fixed a lot of you 'drifters' will suddenly hate and leave LFS, much like those that suddenly couldn't cope with less that 100000 degree of lock. Of course the good, serious drifters (and I've had the pleasure now of watching some of the people who fall into the catagory) will love the new challenge. So if you aren't a pro drifter (or can't in real life/other sims) then be prepared to hate LFS in the near future.

Kajojek(PL)

25th March 2006, 12:12

Greboth

25th March 2006, 12:35

<rant>And the award for most pointless and repeated conversation goes to : *drum roll* this thread!

Really come on guys, racing and drifting totally different. I race more than drift but i drift when theres no races i wanna do or when im to tired to concentrate on racing. Also because i was into the D1 GP before i played this game. I no drifting isnt seen by alot of poeple as "motorsport" and i can see why, im kind of in the middle on that, its motorsport as they use cars but not in the sense of f1 or dtm etc.

I really dont see why the majority of drifters flame grippers and most gripers flame drifters.
As i said they are different and need different skills. If you dont drift and you dont like drifting thats your opinion, if you dont grip race and you dont like it thats your opinion.
To completely blow this out of proportion - i dont like sprouts. Now all the people who do flame me cause i do. BUt you probably wont because you see that as its my free choice, so why do people feel the need to with gripping and drifting </rant>

Edit : please excuse spelling mistakes im in a rush.

sgt.flippy

25th March 2006, 12:54

Motorsport is every sport involving a motor. Boat racing can be seen as a motorsport too. Flying scale models of planes is a motorsport too as far as I'm concerned.

Problem here is, we have a group of grippers, and a group of drifters, but only one game they want to do it in. This convo will exist for ever, as long as these two groups exist. It's just how the world works, there are always two opposite groups fighting each other over whose better. It's like religion, so many religions, and there is nobody that can tell me which one is the best, because it's relevant to your person.

Rappa Z

25th March 2006, 13:06

drifting is a Japanese sreet racing event. It should have nothing to do with raceing and doesn't have anything to do with racing.

BUT in the early 60's and 50's the cars did slid at about 10 degrees cause there was no traction control or downforce. Not drifting still.

Also driftng is only used in road racing for a SAVE not that crap style.

tristancliffe

25th March 2006, 13:09

not neccesarily, afaik LFS is one of the few games that realistically simulates road cars

I'm guessing you're are referring to the bit about it's gonna become harder. One of the main bits of drifting is the cars lose and regain grip. In LFS currently it's a very linear, predictable, easy slide to catch, with less chances of overcorrecting that real life. If Scawen's super duper new patch fixes that tyre behaviour problem then I fully expect any drift to be harder - the cars will 'suddenly' regain grip, the chances of over correcting will be that much higher, and most people won't be able to do it anymore as their lack of skill is currently masked by LFS's deficiencies in this area.

Rappa Z

25th March 2006, 13:15

Jakg

25th March 2006, 13:22

I'm guessing you're are referring to the bit about it's gonna become harder. One of the main bits of drifting is the cars lose and regain grip. In LFS currently it's a very linear, predictable, easy slide to catch, with less chances of overcorrecting that real life. If Scawen's super duper new patch fixes that tyre behaviour problem then I fully expect any drift to be harder - the cars will 'suddenly' regain grip, the chances of over correcting will be that much higher, and most people won't be able to do it anymore as their lack of skill is currently masked by LFS's deficiencies in this area.i should of cut down the quote from you, what i mean is that there arent many games that simulate (key word) road cars, therefore drifters are drawn to LFS (NFS - to arcadey, GTR - Try drifting a race spec FIA GT Car!), and you have to accept that drifters are part of the community, they paid for a license the same as you, i dont quite undertand this hostility towards drifters, i understand its annoying when somebody omplains about tyres burning out after drifting for 10 laps, or asking for 360 degrees of lock, but the pros that drift on their own server arent affecting anyone, so why the hostility?

Vain

25th March 2006, 13:36

There is (about) no hostility, just a lot of teasing.

Vain

Jethro!

25th March 2006, 14:24

where is he btw?

I think he learnt his lesson.

If by "he" you mean me, I'm right here....

Unfortunately I have other things to do besides monitor this thread all day.

I asked a question, My question was answered & I gave an opinion on the subject... After that I have nothing more to add on the subject.

Jethro!

25th March 2006, 14:28

I dont go down to the town pool and shout at the syncronised swimming team because I want to do a few laps.

You miss the point Becky.

I was the one who was shouted at for "NOT Drifting"

That is what prompted me to come here and find out wtf drifting is all about.

Also note I was not attempting to start a race or interfering with anyone in the server.... simply driving "normally" around the track.

So, to use your analogy... I would be the "syncronised swimmer" being shouted at.

SamH

25th March 2006, 14:49

I'm usually all for concilliatory comments, and peace-keeping, but right now I'm well narked with drifters.

They're not just pursuing a different form of motorsport but they're also, in my direct and personal experience, a bunch of completely inconsiderate, irresponsible, arse-faced tossers. They wreck races by blocking up the track during a race, ON a race server, with NO mention of DRIFT in the server name, and then they blatantly turn to wrecking when they're asked to sort it out. I'm talking about S2, here, not EVEN demo!!

It's a different mentality from racing, and it obviously attracts a different kind of person. Well, long may they feck off into the sunset and stick to their own damn servers, and do what the hell they want there.

No, I haven't had good experiences recently on our servers with drifters and their bad-ass attitudes.

Gabkicks

25th March 2006, 14:51

You miss the point Becky.

I was the one who was shouted at for "NOT Drifting"

That is what prompted me to come here and find out wtf drifting is all about.

Also note I was not attempting to start a race or interfering with anyone in the server.... simply driving "normally" around the track.

So, to use your analogy... I would be the "syncronised swimmer" being shouted at.

not really since it was a drift server. you were the guy doing the laps while everyone else was doing synchronized swimming

Jethro!

25th March 2006, 15:30

not really since it was a drift server. you were the guy doing the laps while everyone else was doing synchronized swimming

point taken, however, at that time I didn't even know what drifting was.

The most important thing I have learned from this thread is to stay far far away from any server with drift in the name. :thumb:

Shotglass

25th March 2006, 16:12

on tarmac however, people can argue that you get quicker times drifting certain tracks but i've never seen an example of this. grip racing will always lead to quicker lap times, drifting is more about putting on a bit of a show and having some fun.

watch old f1 videos ... the drivers countersteer quite a bit round every corner ... it isnt show drifting with lots of angle but a fast 4 wheel drift ... and as it is f1 if they were faster going round the corners in full grip they certainly wouldnt drift at all

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2394234277824545689&q=senna

:)

not a fast drift ... its a slow drift used to block the line

Drifting is when you purposely get the back end of the car at huge angles

yes and no ... id argue that the so called 4 wheel drift is on purpose and its still drifting even though you dont go at a show drift angle

The other factor is that the size of the drift community here in LFS is becuase of the dodgy tyre physics at slow speeds and recovering grip.

dont think so ... with drifts in lfs youre usually well above say 70 kmh so your out of the range of the slow speed tyre problems ... and as far as diffs without preload and the slow recovery of grip are concernd the only changes that the drifters will expiereince are that it will take a bit more force to initiate a drift and maybe it will become impossible to link corner that are far apart where the tyres nature not to regain grip at all helps a lot
ive argued before and im prepared to argue once again that the fact lfs has become a drifters sim relies on lfs outstanding simulation of weight transfer

oh and not quoting your second post but commenting on it
sure overcorrecting might become more of an issue with tyres that regain grip more suddenly but with lfs great ffb and the fact that almost nobody drifts with much more than 270° of lock i doubt it will be much of an issue

...

ive yet to see a single drifter drift (intentionally) on a race server

kamkorPL

25th March 2006, 16:15

If no one have noticed - discussion about drifters/grippers happens on forums only. I've never, I repeat - I have never seen someone doing discussion about drifters/grippers differencies in LFS. More to that, I have never seen a single "gripper" looking down at me, because I also drift a lot in LFS. In LFS we are all drivers(drivers and wreckers(on s2 too ! :x) maybe :scratchch), on forums we are grippers and drifters, so it seems at least. . .

SamH

25th March 2006, 16:18

ive yet to see a single drifter drift (intentionally) on a race server

If I could say the same, I'd not be saying anything. I was not a happy bunny.

Valo

25th March 2006, 16:36

Here (http://www.drifting2.com/index.php?channel=what_is_drifting) you can find the answer of you question.
Btw Drifting Rockzz :nana:

Shotglass

25th March 2006, 18:36

If I could say the same, I'd not be saying anything. I was not a happy bunny.

well i have to admit that i havent been active on any road car servers since s2 came out so that might be the cause ... but i also doubt that any of the good respectable drifters ive met so far since i joined rtdc would ruin a race by drifting

Bawbag

25th March 2006, 18:53

I see wannabe drifters on race servers all the time and kindly ask them to stay out of our way when we are racing around. Simple, I don't mind drifting now, since i've actually been able to control a RWD car it becomes quite fun, I suppose i'm a big rally fan so some people would totally disagree.

Anyhoo, I thought that Clownpaints post is the most relevant of the thread, don't you think? :)

lrdbsi

26th March 2006, 00:27

omg see wat happens, someone says WTF DRIFT
and u all think your drift masters posting wtf u know, even that little chuby kid with the goldy-locks, wtf could he possibly, know any STFU cause ur all NOOBS, or at least make ur selfs look like them!

omg immature

SamH

26th March 2006, 00:39

Shotglass

26th March 2006, 03:32

Where's the emoticon for a smug, told-you-so type of face?

seems like you understand him ... would you mind translating whatever the hell he said into english ?

SamH

26th March 2006, 04:04

seems like you understand him ... would you mind translating whatever the hell he said into english ?

I haven't a clue :Looking_a

"Smile and wave, boys. Smile and wave."

lrdbsi

26th March 2006, 04:23

SamH

26th March 2006, 04:35

We need more emoticons on this forum, definitely.

Shotglass

26th March 2006, 04:37

i finally begin to grasp why theres so much animosity against drifters in the community

Gabkicks

26th March 2006, 04:40

because of this one guy?:scratchch

humans fear what they dont understand and fear leads ot hate.

Shotglass

26th March 2006, 05:15

well most reasons ive heard from the drift haters are about idiots ruining races etc ... thing is in my so far short career on the drift servers i hadnt met anybody whom i could bring into any congruence with the picture of drifters thats usually described by the drift haters ... but when i read that post ......

xapexcivicx

26th March 2006, 06:00

http://www.lfs-torque.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1138174202/0#0
All the links come back with an error. Copyright maybe?

Hankstar

26th March 2006, 06:01

okay if ur that stupid i said, SOME BODY SAID WTF IS DRIFTING
then all u know-it-all supposbly real-life experienced drifters bust out all your knowledge arguing of crap that doesnt even matter, immature girl-fighting is, why i left this place for a while. i come back and little 13-14yr olds are trying to explain how to drive or something, so i got my brother to read this post and he understands. so if u cant ur a idiot, grow up

From the looks of that you haven't read this thread at all and are just looking to flame people, like usual. Why did you come back anyway? IIRC you just acted like a twat, starting fights and flaming people, which of course got you banned, then everyone here was happy. If you're not adding anything to the conversation you can sod off.

Gabkicks

26th March 2006, 06:11

i bet he sux at drifting tho :tilt: i was thinking he may be under the influence of some type of drug.

lrdbsi

26th March 2006, 07:01

totaly agree, yet u may think ima hater, but know i hate the ppl that turn a simple question i.e WTF IS DRIFTING(topic header) into a battle of b.s knowledge,, but if anyone is keen to drift with me that would be nice :)

Hankstar

26th March 2006, 07:01

For the record, the b.s. didn't start until you got here dude. Until then the conversation was relatively civil...

lrdbsi

26th March 2006, 07:02

i bet he sux at drifting tho :tilt: i was thinking he may be under the influence of some type of drug.

plus u dnt know me, and i was not talking about my ability to driftm instead u try to pick-fights, looking at ur post number* i would thought u would be more wise, anyway like i said at the end of that comment*grow up, i think this refers to you, sorry to affend anyone,

Hankstar

26th March 2006, 07:06

What is your point then? All you've done is bitch people out.

Gabkicks

26th March 2006, 07:11

plus u dnt know me, and i was not talking about my ability to driftm instead u try to pick-fights, looking at ur post number* i would thought u would be more wise, anyway like i said at the end of that comment*grow up, i think this refers to you, sorry to affend anyone,
lol i apologize :tilt: i just think you should take some of your own advice. everyone here was trying to be civil and you jump on ranting like a maniac. lfsforums is not a good place to vent whatever steam you have. lol from your choice of words and the way you put sentences together... i wont even go there :p

Vykos69

26th March 2006, 08:41

I like the car-control drifters have, but the point that not the time but some "style-points" decide who wins always reminds me of ice-figure-skating and how I hate it... ;)

lrdbsi

26th March 2006, 09:34

okay sweet forget i say anything, :):):)

Rappa Z

26th March 2006, 12:09

This is funny. Everyone yelling at everyone else. I'll just watch for here on.
Keep posting.
:):):):):):):):):):)

Greboth

26th March 2006, 14:44

. . . why it seem some drifter feel the need to flame grippers and grippers flam drifters. I know its not everyone but the minority that do - WTF, why flame them?

I like watching drifting on tele the d1gp, d1gb euro drift, usa drift championship etc and i do drift in lfs a bit. BUt i bought s2 to race mainly, and drift a little. I will agree that sometimes when racing the RWD cars if i get out of shape and start oversteering i will drift the corner. If thought its a close race with someone behind me ill usually correct oversteer and usually loose a place or 2 rather than drift and get flamed for being n a race server and drifting (it has happened to me before)

My point is - Everyone who is S2 lisenced, that means they have paid the devs £24, as long as drifted keep to drift servers and grippers to grip servers. Does it matter what they do?
the grippers who dont mind drifters, and drifters who dont mind grippers - well done for being open minded enough to see that other people may have different interests and opinions to you
Those who are close minded and flame the other group, its just pointless just builds up more rage between the two groups.

As for a last point - I raced demo and s2, and then took part in the [RTDC] (races that drift casually) and i saw how much skill is needed to drift properly, thena s i found out i cant do it lol. Doing the rtdc showed me more than anything that grip racing and drifting are two different skills and unless you are competitve at both, you cant say anything about the the other. My awe (or ore?) goes to those few people who can drift spectacularly on lfs then the next day can go and grip race and get set times close to WR's.

xapexcivicx

26th March 2006, 17:06

As for a last point - I raced demo and s2, and then took part in the [RTDC] (races that drift casually) and i saw how much skill is needed to drift properly, thena s i found out i cant do it lol. Doing the rtdc showed me more than anything that grip racing and drifting are two different skills and unless you are competitve at both, you cant say anything about the the other. My awe (or ore?) goes to those few people who can drift spectacularly on lfs then the next day can go and grip race and get set times close to WR's.
Hi, I love you. :thumb:

Impreza WRX

27th March 2006, 04:12

Speaking of ice figure skating, if you got to see the Top Gear Winter Olympics, Jeremy Clarkson utters one of the greatest stupid sayings:

"You don't need four wheel drive on ice!"

xapexcivicx

27th March 2006, 05:57

I did see that I think. The ice hockey one? If so, good stuff :)

tinvek

27th March 2006, 09:30

. I will agree that sometimes when racing the RWD cars if i get out of shape and start oversteering i will drift the corner. If thought its a close race with someone behind me ill usually correct oversteer and usually loose a place or 2 rather than drift and get flamed for being n a race server and drifting (it has happened to me before)

lol

does it matter how you go round corner aslong as you dont cause accidents, if your infront of them and are drifting they cant really complain as its got you round the track quicker than them.

drifters who get in way, especially on the straights are a different matter but if your at racing speed who cares ? its just a different style, anyone ever see ronnie peterson at silverstone before the woodcote chicane, he was completly sideways there in f1 every lap, didnt brake just relied on being sideways to slow him enough to get round, mind you shecter (spelling?) took out most of the field in 1973

wonder what they'd have made of gerry mashall in big bertha or the blydenstein vauxhalls then if hed been in lfs?

very succesfull dirver who believed that sideways was more fun and gave the spectators something to look at, probably be banned today.

StanleyCarter

27th March 2006, 11:31

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2394234277824545689&q=senna

:)

wow that is a really cool move there~ :thumbsup:

the old F1 racings are surely the best. :thumb:

peejayh

4th April 2006, 07:43

Will somebody who can give an LFS definition of what it means when you talk about DRIFTING, do you mean that you don't steer at all and your only change of direction is via the brake or handbrake.....?

sileighty

4th April 2006, 13:54

i believe a while ago (20-30+ years) drifting used to be the fastest way through most turns. now that cars have incredible suspension gripping is way faster... drifting has nothing to do with racing and is only maybe faster through a tight hairpin now. people who say drifting is fast are stupid people who still play on demo. those guys all forget what drifting is all about. drifting is about very precise control and angles and style. speed isn't that big of a deal as long as you don't lose it all and maintain a steady pace. i'm sure i'll get flamed for saying this but i think i can speak for quite a few other people when i say that perfect drifting takes more skill than perfect racing. perfect drifting has yet to be seen. it's a very very complex way to drive that most people overlook. if you don't appreciate drifting then whatever you aren't the first person. but don't ever come on here and say it's stupid or whatever else you have to say just because you have no idea how to do it. if you even knew half of the difficulty it takes to drift you would at least appreciate it for what it is. i'm not saying you'll love it and want to do it but you'll at least appreciate it. drifting involves lines just like racing does but instead of just a line you have to have the right angle too. this can make things much more tricky. if you wanna know what drifting really is i'd be happy to send you some good videos of real life drifting on msn as long as you keep the queerness to a minimum. :D

peejayh

4th April 2006, 14:06

A good number of the contributions on here SEEM to be from people who have a lot of miles under their belts (in LFS terms), know all the jargon and know all about cars.
I was hoping that this thread was for BEGINNERS and Helpful Veterans.
Is there any chance of another thread for Beginning Beginners please???
I asked for a definition of what is meant by Drifting - how to download a "SETUP", how to make sense of downloading "skins", how to set up a head to head with a friend, how to join a race at a "host".
Any helpful veterans out there please??

filur

4th April 2006, 16:49

I asked for a definition of what is meant by Drifting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drifting_(motorsport)

Drifting has come to mean deliberately throwing your car sideways thru the corners, basically what rally drivers do but moved onto tarmac, the sport of drifting has nothing to do with racing.

Kosmo

4th April 2006, 17:56

I dont know why Im posting in this thread since some ppl will never be... well ppl, only racists but anyway. Im not a drift or a grip fan just to set things straight, I like to drive cars fast, grip is my aim but if IRL I drive a high powered rwd I will drift it or at least powerslide it in a couple of turns just for the fun of it, and the same goes for LFS. Now... Im sorry to tell you that drifting IS racing. There ARE races held around the world IRL that ppl drift in, arent there? So there you go. On another note, dragster and NASCAR aren't considered real racing too by many ppl but beside the undeniable fact that they too (just like drifting) require a considerable amount of skill, there is also the equally undeniable fact that there is a dragstrip and an oval in LFS. So what's your problem with drifting in particular? If you don't like it or can't do it then don't. Period. It's like those ppl coming over from... I don't know Race Driver (just an example, dont have someone in particular in mind) or whatever boards just to say that LFS sucks and this game or that games kicks its ass. Pathetic. We should then go to a Pro Evolution board and start saying soccer sucks and its not a real sport etc. This discussion is like comparing apples to carpets. Get a life.

ps. I dont remember who said it, but you can drift in a fwd, yes you can be sideways around a skidpad as much as you like provided the car is setup correctly.

NotAnIllusion

4th April 2006, 18:07

I think the main "problem" is that unlike in grip racing where the objective is to get to the finish line as fast as possible in front of everyone else, drifting style points panel or whatever just isn't the same thing. It would be if grippers' laps would be evaluated on how clean their lines are, how much excessive wheelspin is used etc., incidentally only the time at the finish line matters.

Course I could just be talking utter rubbish here :p Personally I can't drift and only go sideways when I make a mistake but have no objection to drifters as long as they don't slow me down in a race ;)

filur

4th April 2006, 18:16

Now... Im sorry to tell you that drifting IS racing.

Well, no, the "sport" of drifting where smoke and angle comes into play has nothing to do with racing. Powersliding is sometimes part of racing, occasional slip that "qualifies" as drifting is part of racing, getting points for the amount of smoke generated by your tires is not.

Kosmo

4th April 2006, 18:25

filur

4th April 2006, 18:29

It logically just does not work, in racing you're trying to go as fast as physically possible, deliberately loosing grip doesn't fit, except in rally where you have very low grip to begin with.

I have nothing against drifting, i think i've even "defended" against drift-bashing in this very thread.

Gabkicks

4th April 2006, 18:54

drifting and racing are about car control.

with racing the goal is to get around the track as quickly as possible which means damn near no sliding.

with drifting the goal is to get as sideways as possible through corners wilfe following a consistand and fast line though angle takes priority over speed.

I am tired of bad racers calling themselves drifters. if you arent sliding from entrance to exit it doesnt count as a drift.

Kosmo

4th April 2006, 19:04

@filur in drifting you dont loose grip "deliberately" in the sense that you try to get the car sideways. Drift cars are setup in such a way that the car gets sideways very easily if you go fast, so you cant really do grip driving in them even if you wanted to. So you can say that you try to go as fast as you can even in drifting. Its just that the only way to go fast in these cars is sideways, you have to go slow to keep it straight.

Ok, ill admit that specifically at bikes, I don't like the motard bikes that are sideways all the time, I prefer to see a supersport bike getting a bit sideways because of too much power or braking or whatever, while racing. But you can see that the only way to ride a motard fast is sideways. Drifting with a car is very similar (except that motard races arent won by points, but as I said there are drift races where finishing position counts). I prefer to see a F1 car getting a bit sideways because of the power compared to drifting. I really dont care or like to watch a drift race (without bashing ppl who do though, thats the point), but can you say that when youre just driving around the track, no race, no hotlap just driving you dont have fun when the car gets sideways in a corner, accidentally or not? I dont believe there is one single person here that at least once has not tried to get a car sideways intentionally. Everyobody likes at least a little sideways action. Drifting is just a lot of sideways action.

Tomi

4th April 2006, 19:07

TristanCliffe : your statement apply only to modern track racing.

drifting is widely used in rallying or offroad racing and is done one purpose, because it is sometimes better to loose a bit of time sliding in a corner while keeping full throttle in order to keep the engine in it's ideal powerband (especially with turbo cars) for the corner exit. It's also sometimes faster to slide the backend on purpose to do an hairpin because the setup of the car is balanced for faster corners and would induce oversteer.

I don't do drifting (ok I sometimes do it for the fun after having crossed the finish line with a regular setup) but I have nothing against it. I find perfectly sane and preferable to see both Drift servers and racing servers : it avoids misunderstandings and keeps people with the same goal togethers.

mrodgers

4th April 2006, 19:18

I think I've made it clear as day. Its a !RACE! that ppl drift in. (race is when ppl are competing for first place? right?). So its racing. Maybe its not touring car racing or F1 racing or whatever racing but it is racing. Obviously you dont know that there are two types of drift races. There are also races where results are based on who finishes first. Anyway I dont really want to debate on that, its considered racing around the world from the ppl watching it, from the drivers and also from the ppl organising it. I dont think you or anyone else here can change that no matter what you think or say.
Drifting is NOT a race. It IS a competition. In your explaination up there, that would qualify football (european), football (american), rugby, baseball, hockey, golf.... as racing. You compete for first place in those? Racing is crossing the finish line first against one or more opponents. Drifting is a competition where you are judged and compete for points.

Gabkicks

4th April 2006, 19:19

wow... kosmo leaves me speachless:faint:

tristancliffe

4th April 2006, 19:22

TristanCliffe : your statement apply only to modern track racing.
Well, that's because this thread is in reference to track based drifting... You can pick holes in any argument by expanding it to different scenarioes...

Edit: And why, with all the other posts between mine and yours did you feel mine was the one to pick up on? :/

Kosmo

4th April 2006, 19:23

Drifting is NOT a race. It IS a competition. In your explaination up there, that would qualify football (european), football (american), rugby, baseball, hockey, golf.... as racing. You compete for first place in those? Racing is crossing the finish line first against one or more opponents. Drifting is a competition where you are judged and compete for points.

In my explanation up there I also say that there are drift "events" if you so like to call them, where the aim actually IS to finish first. You just do so sideways :)

@Gabkicks ?? :scratchch

Gabkicks

4th April 2006, 19:30

drifting competitions are not about crossing the finnishline 1st. they're about showing your car control is better than the other driver. sorta like figure skating. but if the guy leading screws up a bit and the guy chasing can pass then its a plus if you get by without touching.

i've noticed alot of lfs drifters arent so good at chasing and staying close to the leader while still being sideways.

Kosmo

4th April 2006, 19:33

Maybe the D1 races or whatever are not but there are, 100% sure, at least national events where finishing position counts.

NotAnIllusion

4th April 2006, 19:38

Yeah there definitely are some out there, because I've seen a vid or two of such races. In my personal opinion it's still not the same thing because the person who drifts less will go faster, so it feels weird watching drifting where ppl are trying to drift less. See. :p

sileighty

4th April 2006, 22:47

kosmos you have no idea what your talking about have dont even know it. drifting has nothing to do with finishing first. the only thing a finishing line does in drifting is end the run so someone else can go or the tandem will switch leaders. it has nothing to do with finishing first ever in any competition its only about style, angle, line, speed, clipping points, and of course the judges like to see smoke but they dont judge based on that because some cars just dont make that much smoke like the 86s. and your stupid thing about drift cars setting up so they can only go fast sideways is just retarded man. who the hell told you these things. i have videos of drift cars gripping for the first few laps and sometimes even when its wet! they can still grip. go do a whole bunch of research before you try to sound so sure of yourself man.

Gabkicks

4th April 2006, 22:55

sileighty... i think maybe the events near him are different from the more popular ones of america japan and uk.

i feel the same way as you but we shouldnt flame people even if they are wrong. :shrug:

Kosmo

4th April 2006, 23:16

Noone has told me anything I speak from experience, Im sorry if it sounds retarded to you. Granted Ive never been in a D1 car, but Ive been in cars and driven a few that have been set for drift. And guess what. When you go fast they get sideways. Ok, Ive heard the story about suspensions that go both grip and drift but Ive never seen one with my own eyes. Have YOU driven any of the cars you say both grip and drift? If yes ok, if not dont be so aggresive next time. Because you dont know how close to the limit were the cars in your videos when they were gripping.

As for the races, it seems to me you didnt even understand what I said. I know of drift races that position counts, Im not talking about D1 or Formula D or whatever, I said it before too. Im talking about national races. Ive seen it happen. Have YOU seen EVERY drift event held around the world and are so sure there are no such races? If yes, again, ok, if not...

Greboth

4th April 2006, 23:47

It is amazing how long this arguement can go on for. There are people who drift who need a comprimising set up. For exaple the non proffesional drifters who also use her drift car day to day. But i no from seeing it and from what the driver said - the hks s15 was set up for drift so much so even gentle bends the rear of the car would slide. I no this is not for all drift cars though.
As for who finished first, in the top of the sport (d1 gp / forumala d / d1 gb) it isnt based on who crosses the line first, it is based upon speed angle line etc. From my experience of watchin drift comps usually then the top go for the twin drift to see who is better etc. This really takes out who the fastest is. I have seen some events though where the cars run and angle and line are judged but who crosses the line first also counts to who wins. In these events the drivers usually pull low angle lines to maximum speed while still gaining points for being side ways.
There are many different drift competitions and they all have there own little rules and judging procedures. To say this is how it is black and white wont happen cause as i said there are subtle differences between each.
Drifting may seem stuid to some and the best thing to others. I cant drift IRL or grip race either. In lfs though i am learning to drift as i see it as a skill just like grip racing. It is a different skill and ive got different set ups for both grip and drift. But it still comes down to its a skill.
IMHO this whole arguement is stupid. I think there will always be differences in view between grip racers and drifters. So what they are views and opinions and i no everyone shuld express them and this is wat this forum is for but to have 4 pages of posts to me is stupid. The quesiton was wtf is drifing, the question was answered, Y is all this crap needed?
In reply to what i said earlier bout id rather loose places in races the drift a corner. I no that as long as you are competitive and not slowing people down, if i make a mistake drifting a corner isnt a bad thing (i dont mean simple oversteer before sumone says it) but i got ban from some random server for drifting one corner. I was in the lead and i braked hard and the back stepped out so i accelerated and drifted the corner, this mean i wanst as quick as i normally was, 2nd caught me up quick and then was sayin i was drifting in a race server and then vote ban loads untill i eventually was banned. I not this wouldnt happen alot of the time, but to save that trouble i would rather loose a place or two.

Hankstar

5th April 2006, 00:37

I'm not surprised at all by how long this thread has become. You can't mention the "D" word around here without someone from either side of the fence taking offense at something and going ballistic (or just going on and on), especially if some newb names his thread "drifting - wtf?" - that's just asking for trouble. Next time, try google - you'll get loads of results without 4 pages of "yada yada" :)

I think everyone's had their two cents here (and in some cases a few bucks' worth) so maybe it's time we let this thread die a natural death (I actually thought it had, but was disappointed to see someone resurrected it)...

NotAnIllusion

5th April 2006, 01:16

Perhaps then there should be a single informative (read: unbiased) thread about drifting exploring different viewpoints and yaddayaddayadda so that people not in the know can be referred there instead of having this argument every time? :smileypul

No, no I don't think it would have the appropriate impact..

filur

5th April 2006, 01:29

Part of the problem is people's subjective idea of the term drifting, to me it means the sport which many compare to figure skating, to others it's even the smallest powerslide. I think if there'd be a sticky, it would see about the same amount of replies as this thread. :)

-DrftMstr-

5th April 2006, 01:58

Gerboth, thank you for defending the RIGHT point of view.

Drifting is not some easy stuff... I have the guts to say that it might be sometimes harder then gripping. You do not point your sterring wheel to the direction you want to go, but to the amount of steer needed to keep the car sideways and sliding in the desired direction. All this all the same time, you have to manage the throttle (ok gripping also), too much power delivered might either swing the car to a deadly angle--> into spinout.

Another thing is after 1-2 laps, the tires are getting worn out, don't tell me it's easy to predict how the car will slide/ turn and constantly applying the right amount of throttle at the moment.

As last, it is NOT figure skating... eumm i don't wear tight pants dancing in the air... but i have to agree that it is similar to the JUDGING of figure skating. Speed, angle, precision, control. All 4 elements are interdependant and if you fail to master one of them, it's not drifting, it's just simply powersliding. For example, using the XRT, TSC from SimX team drifts 10 laps of SO long rev on one set of tires, no refuelling, no pitting. I don't have anyone else in mind right now. I do 7 laps of SO long rev on the 4WD RB4. Linking the corners, one after the other, lap after lap, until your tires fails you REQUIRES skills. AND I HATE IGNORANT PEOPLE RANDOMLY INSULTS THE DRIFT COMMUNITY THEY HAVE NO SKILLS... redeem yourself.

filur

5th April 2006, 02:18

As last, it is NOT figure skating... eumm i don't wear tight pants dancing in the air... but i have to agree that it is similar to the JUDGING of figure skating. Speed, angle, precision, control.

Rules - not clothes - define a sport, judging is applicating rules, hence the comparison.

until your tires fails you REQUIRES skills. AND I HATE IGNORANT PEOPLE RANDOMLY INSULTS THE DRIFT COMMUNITY THEY HAVE NO SKILLS.

To support your beloved community, a better idea would be to objectively point out your arguments and leave it at that, this sort of rant i'm afraid will do pretty much the opposite.

if i make a mistake drifting a corner isnt a bad thing (i dont mean simple oversteer before sumone says it) but i got ban from some random server for drifting one corner. I was in the lead and i braked hard and the back stepped out so i accelerated and drifted the corner

And this is a brilliant example of drifting meaning something completely different, i'm sure this has happened to every single "grip" racer, in the world, ever. (read as clarkson), and i wouldn't see this as drifting at all, you've made a slight mistake and still struggling to keep your speed/position to the best of your ability, not aiming to get some kind of points.

Hankstar

5th April 2006, 02:34

Yup. Talking in capitals without punctuation will always win you respect.

DrftMstr, filur has made a very good point. That's exactly the kind of explosive reaction which makes some people think drifters are hot-headed, overly defensive, immature and arrogant (I don't, for the record). If you feel you're being unfairly represented then, of course, you should defend yourself, but just flying off the handle just adds fuel to peoples' misconceptions and prejudices about drifters. I think most people around here appreciate the skill required to drift competetively, but don't place all that much importance on it. Personally I see drifting as something cool to watch and a bit of fun, and definitely something quite skillful, but ultimately it will always be a sideshow for me as I'm passionate about racing. To me, racing (rallying included) is the pinnacle of what you can do with a car and anything else is secondary. I won't get upset if someone disses the sport I love though - as far as I'm concerned they're missing out if they don't like racing.

wabbit

5th April 2006, 02:42

Simply watch the following video (from start to finish):

http://www.youtube.com/w/Tough-Drift?v=tKdtxmzOzC0&search=drift

Greboth

5th April 2006, 09:41

And this is a brilliant example of drifting meaning something completely different, i'm sure this has happened to every single "grip" racer, in the world, ever. (read as clarkson), and i wouldn't see this as drifting at all, you've made a slight mistake and still struggling to keep your speed/position to the best of your ability, not aiming to get some kind of points.

Its not really a good example of drifting meaning something different. I did drift the corner i admit that, but due to me loosing the back end under braking. Im not complaining about it really.
Unless you mean the example as people mis understanding drifting and flaming, kicking, banning anyone who has a slight powerslide etc.

IMO this thread should be closed, everything that can be said has been and it all flaming and flaming back now.

Tomi

5th April 2006, 10:06

Edit: And why, with all the other posts between mine and yours did you feel mine was the one to pick up on? :/

Because yours was well argumented though I don't agree. There's no point to answer to trolls, so I answer to people who deserve it. ;)

tristancliffe

5th April 2006, 11:09

filur

5th April 2006, 11:16

Its not really a good example of drifting meaning something different. I did drift the corner i admit that, but due to me loosing the back end under braking.

Let's try that one again: It's a good example because i'd say you weren't drifting at all, everyone makes mistakes that ends in more or less powersliding thru a corner, yet you say you drifted the corner.

Shotglass

5th April 2006, 11:33

Simply watch the following video (from start to finish):

http://www.youtube.com/w/Tough-Drift?v=tKdtxmzOzC0&search=drift

worst kind of drifting ... ridiculously looking blinking cars with stupid wings and smokers as tyres ... the drivers certainly are amazingly skilled (drifting on such a narrow track with all that smoke) but the cars are the worst

still i wish there was a wheel for the pc with which one could drift like this

Greboth

5th April 2006, 15:33

Let's try that one again: It's a good example because i'd say you weren't drifting at all, everyone makes mistakes that ends in more or less powersliding thru a corner, yet you say you drifted the corner.

Maybe my view on what drifting is is wrong. I always thought that it was the art of having a car sideway before a corner using accelrator, hand brake (e brake) clutch downshifting etc to carry on the slide throughout the corner. And on that view i did drift the corner, as i was sideways before and throughtout the corner. It was un intensional but in my view it was a drift. I understand my view maybe be wrong and i will happily accept it if i am if people tell me what drifting really is.

filur

5th April 2006, 15:43

I understand my view maybe be wrong and i will happily accept it if i am if people tell me what drifting really is.

Last attempt, i was trying to say there's very different ideas of what the term drifting means, i wasn't saying you were wrong in any way.

QuickSilver

5th April 2006, 16:28

just gotta love crazy Japanese people screaming!

but seriously, everyone here can agree that we all like cars so we have something in common? right. now why cant everyone agree that everyone likes there own style of racing weather it be drag,drift,grip,rally,f1,nasscar, etc.. just like everyone likes the cloths they wear... some other people might not like your cloths but someone doesn't walk up to you in the street and tell you that you suck because of what cloths you wear.....so why argue about racing styles?