Round 5: Drivers' Meeting

[DeadWolfBones]

Hello drivers and managers! Welcome back after the long summer break.

Tomorrow's race brings us to KY3, which of course means dealing with the infamous chicane. After listening to the drivers and reviewing our options, we have decided to go with NO layout for this race. However, this does not mean that you have free reign to go four wheels across the sand exiting the chicane. Rule H4 and its sub-rules are still in place.

However, we realize that at some point in the race, due simply to the way the corner is designed and the way we all race LFS, pretty much every car will end up going through the sand. Therefore, we will not be penalizing teams for these isolated incidents. If a team repeatedly and deliberately cuts four wheels through the sand to gain a time advantage or complete a pass, then we will investigate the circumstances and assess a penalty if necessary. Off-track areas SHOULD NOT be used to make passes, or to gain an advantage.

There will also be no layout in qualifying. We will not be checking individual laps for cutting in the chicane. You can go wild here, but be safe and respect the other cars around you.

Moving on...

1 New rules! As I hope all of you have seen already, we have new rules governing SC periods, specifically relating to lapped cars mixed in among the lead-lap cars. Here I'll just cut & paste my common sense description of the changes and their effects from the rules thread:

[This change means] that all cars between the leader and the last car on the lead lap at the time the SC comes out will get a free lap back. These cars will be called out by number and ordered to pass the SC, go around the track at speed, and re-join the end of the queue. It also means that the lead-lap cars (the ones that were on the lead lap at the time of the SC) will line up nose-to-tail for any SC restart, with lapped cars and waved-around cars behind them. This may extend the length of SC periods by about one lap.

If you have questions about this rule change, please contact me before the race!

2 Minimum SC period laps. Due to the above rule change, the minimum SC period length will be extended by one lap to a total of three laps. This is to accommodate the queue resorting and the time necessary for lapped cars to get around the track to the back of the queue and then make a pitstop if necessary.

3 Weather. According to most weather forecasts for Kyoto, Japan, the wind speed will be between 5 and 10mph around the time of the race on Saturday, meaning that there will be NO WIND for this round. It's also raining in Kyoto. Too bad we don't have that implemented yet. :(

4 Tire warming. Cross-posted from below in this thread:


Tire warming will be allowed up until the final sector of the restart lap (until the 'leader controls field' message is displayed). This also applies for the rolling start lap.
Drivers must leave a large gap between themselves and the car ahead--think 5-7 car lengths.
Any solo spins caused by tire warming will cause the marshals to instruct the offending car to move to the rear of the queue.
Any multi-car incidents resulting from tire warming will result in harsh penalties for the guilty party.


If you have any questions regarding any of this, or if I've forgotten something (entirely possible) please let me know!

(And don't forget that you must have at least one team representative in the IRC channel (#igtc @ gamesurge) during the event.)

[R.Kolz]

2 Minimum SC period laps. Due to the above rule change, the minimum SC period length will be extended by one lap to a total of three laps. This is to accommodate the queue resorting and the time necessary for lapped cars to get around the track to the back of the queue and then make a pitstop if necessary.

One single comment from racer R.Kolz - My team told me just to just STFU up before the race... :scratchch

I already feel sorry for any FXR teams on r4r3 out there. FULL 3 SC LAPS !! No weaving allowed means black tires for these racers. (TDRT in FZR..)

Just to refresh all of the admins memory of a race at AS4 (2.19´ ish laptimes and we´re looking at a 2.09 laptime upcoming KY3 race ):

AS4 - IGTC 2008:

srdsprinter: "It was unfair to TDRT to restart the race a lap early. TDRT would have caught up and had hotter tires, but that's the way the rules are written, and that's what would have been fair. It benefited the other 26 teams, but it was not fair."

(Admins on the fly changed the rules.. min. 2 laps the rules stated - admins restarted the race after 1 SC lap only)

IGTC-Admin:"I'm saying that in my opinion, the benefits of going another lap under SC conditions (i.e., letting one car catch the field) were outweighed by the risks (i.e., sending 27 cars into T1 on ice cubes). I don't feel it was a mistake, though it was technically in breach of the rules. It was a decision we made for the safety of the teams involved.
Edit: which, by the way, is the only reason I'd consciously consider going against the written rules."

More to come:

IGCT-Admin: " But it was not a mistake. It was a conscious decision made by the group of admins for the benefit of the majority of drivers/teams.
The rules allow for the admins to make judgment calls in such situations, and that's what we did. End of discussion, as far as I'm concerned."

3 LAPS NOW ???

Srdprinter: "TDRT was unaware, and got screwed by it."
..............
Thread from it:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=817798#post817798

That was my very final and a personal comment before this race. I´m not going to argue in this thread or make another post before this race has ended. I know how to use PM´s , but this one seemed to be " far out ".

Good luck all, incl. admins. Let´s see how 3 SC laps will work out this race - In case they don´t change rules on the fly once more. :(

No more comments from my side. PM´s I´ll respond at.

A rather frustrated, [TDRT] R.Kolz

[DeadWolfBones]

Frankly I'm not sure what your point is. The decision made in that race was made under different rules and is not much related to the reasons we've made the rule change you quoted.

We realize that going three laps under SC will leave drivers with very cold tires. Unfortunately, at the point we're at with the IGTC rulebook, it's hard to make rule changes that don't cause ripple effects. In this case we had to weigh the relative value of having all of the leaders together on the restarts vs. having cold tires. In this case we think it's better to have the leaders together, and to make sure everyone gets time for a pit stop.

We will certainly consider having the SC drive at a quicker pace in an effort to keep tires warmer.

[Trekkerfahrer]

mmmmhhhhhh, 3 laps of SC at kyoto means about 10 minutes cooling tyres... I think its a foolish decision because cold tyres are more dangerous and it may be a crash race or a "who gets the tyres warm at the end of the stint" race. I would say you should better be more realistic with the technical possibilities instead of thinking about nonsense rules.

I want to take Rudi's words further from my point of view:
Fact is, you screwed the FXR R4R3s , and you are about to do the same once more. And thats just unfair for me as well. And its not much better with FZR/XRR.

[dekojester]

Not to come off as harsh or anything, and this is NOT directed at anyone in particular, but.....

Cold tyres are only foolish when the drivers in the machines at the time forget that they are on cold tyres and still think that their tyres are at full operating levels. THAT is where things go wrong. NOT the rules, not the length of SC periods. It's part of the problem with some driving standards in LFS, on my view, but no amount of rules or lessening SC periods will change the fact that on the track, it is the DRIVER IN THE CAR who has the job of KNOWING his/her car to drive it within the limits of what it is. Don't expect a hotlap quality lap every lap. It's RACING, not hotlapping. Perfect temperature tyres are for hotlapping, not racing. Deal with what you've got for the racing conditions. If there's an SC and your tyres are cold, don't push full throttle through the turns that you can on a longer run until your tyres get back up to normal temperatures.

Just make sure you have a good, clean race with the hand you've been dealt at the time, regardless of what it is.

[Storm_Cloud]

Not to come off as harsh or anything, and this is NOT directed at anyone in particular, but.....

Cold tyres are only foolish when the drivers in the machines at the time forget that they are on cold tyres and still think that their tyres are at full operating levels. THAT is where things go wrong. NOT the rules, not the length of SC periods. It's part of the problem with some driving standards in LFS, on my view, but no amount of rules or lessening SC periods will change the fact that on the track, it is the DRIVER IN THE CAR who has the job of KNOWING his/her car to drive it within the limits of what it is. Don't expect a hotlap quality lap every lap. It's RACING, not hotlapping. Perfect temperature tyres are for hotlapping, not racing. Deal with what you've got for the racing conditions. If there's an SC and your tyres are cold, don't push full throttle through the turns that you can on a longer run until your tyres get back up to normal temperatures.

Just make sure you have a good, clean race with the hand you've been dealt at the time, regardless of what it is.

Post Of The Week :thumbsup:

[Trekkerfahrer]

I Just tested a FXR SC period of 3 laps...

Temperatures in tyres were optimal: 117,108,98 at the front (R4) and 104,99,92 (R3) at the rear. The inside of the tyres looked good too.

In the first lap i noticed a drop of 30°C in the R4 and 18°C in the R3.
In the second and third lap the temps got down to 64° in the R4 and 75° in the R3 (seemed to stay stable).
Then i made a flying start and it took 4 laps to get the grip back in the R4 tyres while the R3 tyres where ready after 2 1/2 laps.

So i see it so, that FXR teams have to make a mandatory pitstop in the last SC lap not to danger anyone else on track.... 64°C is simply undrivable at R4! So this rule is simply an unfair advantage to FZR/XRR pilots...

[DeadWolfBones]

As I said, we will increase the SC speed to try to retain some of the lost tire heat. We are not going to alter this rule before the race.

We may also allow weaving to keep heat in the tires (still deciding on this) but if drivers end up wrecking each other due to weaving there WILL be severe penalties.

[DeadWolfBones]

After discussing the matter with Benji, we have agreed to allow tire warming for this round, as a test toward allowing it in general moving forward.



Tire warming will be allowed up until the final sector of the restart lap (until the 'leader controls field' message is displayed). This also applies for the rolling start lap.
Drivers must leave a large gap between themselves and the car ahead--think 5-7 car lengths.
Any solo spins caused by tire warming will cause the marshals to instruct the offending car to move to the rear of the queue.
Any multi-car incidents resulting from tire warming will result in harsh penalties for the guilty party.


I hope that this will take care of the cold tires issue and allow us to move forward without controversy. Thanks!

[joshdifabio]

After discussing the matter with Benji, we have agreed to allow tire warming for this round, as a test toward allowing it in general moving forward.



Tire warming will be allowed up until the final sector of the restart lap (until the 'leader controls field' message is displayed). This also applies for the rolling start lap.
Drivers must leave a large gap between themselves and the car ahead--think 5-7 car lengths.
Any solo spins caused by tire warming will cause the marshals to instruct the offending car to move to the rear of the queue.
Any multi-car incidents resulting from tire warming will result in harsh penalties for the guilty party.


I hope that this will take care of the cold tires issue and allow us to move forward without controversy. Thanks!
Is tyre-warming also allowed on the formation lap?

[BenjiMC]

Yes with those same rules

[J@tko]

Is tyre-warming also allowed on the formation lap?





Tire warming will be allowed up until the final sector of the restart lap (until the 'leader controls field' message is displayed). This also applies for the rolling start lap.

:thumb:

[Melvyn]

CAPO ARG Team apologizes for the disconnection of one of our drivers and we have decided to terminate our participation not to bother the rest of the drivers.

[DeadWolfBones]

CAPO ARG Team apologizes for the disconnection of one of our drivers and we have decided to terminate our participation not to bother the rest of the drivers.

Thanks for the consideration. :)

[The Pilot X]

Thanks for the consideration. :)

Realy Sorry, I had many problems with my internet connection. :shrug:

[DeadWolfBones]

No worries... it didn't really badly affect anyone, but it could have if it had gone on much longer. Thanks for doing the responsible thing. :)