Just when you think you've got your setup sorted . . .

[Funnybear]

You learn something new.

See, this is why I love this game. I got myself sorted out with a blinding setup (My own I hasten to add*. Making a setup, for me, is one of the best parts of LFS). It was giving me mid 1.43's on AST. NAT. on a regular basis, on a mouse at that, so I thought 'right, time to go and take this show on the road'.

Whoaaaa, I had to say. This is nuts. That shithot setup I had, ain't so shithot on Kyoto, or on BW. But I know my shit now, so I change a few things, get competative. Start lowering my PB's. Then I start talking to the fast guys, looking at some of thier sets. And they arn't just different, they are COMPLETLY different . . .

Man, just when I thought I got it sorted LFS gets me thinking, changing and testing again.

God I love this game.

If there is one thing this game has taught me it's . . . . don't fear change. Change is good. Change could give you a PB.

*When I say my own sets. What I really mean is mostly my own sets. There are some track or car idiosyncracies that a layman like me just would never get from reading the manual or testing. So even though I might have gathered info from other sets I still profess to making my own. Honest guv.

[Calum]

yip ,

in my limited experience so far , it truly is an excellent side to this game , and again , i use F1 ( that i enjoy alot ) as an example ...

LFS is just too realistic :) What works for one in one track , will almost defintely need adjustments for another track , just like F1 racing , all those different courses and tempratures means its excellent fun to do just like the pros do , and do practice laps on a circuit before actually racing on it. Then that gives good advice on what needs to be changed , perhaps tyre pressures slightly , or whatever it is , to give you your best possible lap time on that track. Moving onto another circuit for the next race of the season means , yet again , spending all weekdays testing and trying for the next new PB on the new circuit.

! excellent :)

Calum

[Gimpster]

I would just like to add that the fastest drive does not always win.

[Calum]

true , but it does help for sure.

( sits hear typing this having just run a 1:39:50 around BL Rev in the GTI :( ) lol

Calum

[Bob Smith]

There are no substitutes for 2 things:

1) Actual testing of different sets to see what works
2) Looking at lots of other good setups to see what other people have done

[Hyperactive]

I use only setups made by others. I sometimes do little adjusting but generally I'm 100% dependant on team inferno atm. :D

I think I have about 2-4 setups that I have made myself and actually use them.

[RMachucaA]

i dont take setups from anyone, 99% of the sets out there are EXPLOIT sets, if you want to cheat to be faster, be my guest.

Good thing you are doing your own, its best since you know what you can do to get that tenth of a second less on the next adj.

[WGooden]

99% of the people who play lfs are cheaters then, just because the physics aren't perfect yet.. eh whatever, It'll get fixed soon so you can relax.

[poirqc]

Not everybody has time to learn all aspect of mecanics you can setup in lfs. Example, i can usually setups couple things right, but i've never managed to setup a good suspension... I don't understand enough how it work. Since it's such an important part of the setup, well you get the point.

[farcar]

I'm from the Cole Trickle school of race drivers. :thumb:
i.e. I love driving, but lack the skill/paitence/time to make my own setups.

Therefore I get all my setups from 'teh interweb'.

[RMachucaA]

Wgooden...

if in say... counter strike, someone abuses an exploit and pwnz everyone, in what category would he be placed in?

-Highly intelligent for finding the exploit and abusing it
-Total Hax0rz
-1337
-or simply someone that cant live with playing on a level field, and decided to take advantage of a glitch that is there...


Im a very competetive person by nature, and "honorable" you could say, something which unfortunately has practically vanished in this day and age so i personally find it very irritating to see these high nose setups..

dont take it personally or anything, we've had some good races together and all, but its just that its been irritating me since the first day someone found out that by raising their nose they get higher top speed.... Specially when someone like me, spend hours figuring out a legit set, that is pretty good, to end up being beat by a person that d/l the hax set.

Sry for the rant bud, and please dont take it personally.

[traxxion]

true , but it does help for sure.

( sits hear typing this having just run a 1:39:50 around BL Rev in the GTI :( ) lol

Calum

Have you tried the inferno setup for GTI - BL Rev? That setup seems to be very easy for anyone.
http://setupfield.teaminferno.hu/

On topic, 99% of the time I use someone else's setup. Just because I know a certain laptime is possible with that... if I can't do that time then my driving is to blame.

[Calum]

thanks traxxion for the info , i'll try that out.

I simply ask for a fast persons setup , then dont change the final drives / gears very much , and just alter all the other stuff for my personal preference.

Calum

[Funnybear]

I think if you don't take advantage of the high nose bug (for example) at the moment then you can't race competativly. If everyone knows about it and everyone is using it to some degree or another then it kinda takes the exploitation factor out of it. And anyway, once the new physics patch is in place everyone is going to have to change their sets and driving styles to match anyway. I'm not a great SS racer so the high nose bug doesn't neccesarily effect me. But I do use the FZR which can be seen to exploit it on occasion. To me, actually, the reason I run my nose fairly high is that as it doesn't have any aero deficits (Like flipping the car over on the straights) then it enables me to use more brake force (As a mouser, braking can be difficult) by having the nose riding softer and allowing the tyres to grip for longer . . .

But I shall relish the change when it happens and look forward to testing my setups all over again . . .

[tinvek]

its funny how your taste in setups change with experience.

what i liked to use on demo when i first started and found to be easy to drive now seems to be way to tail happy, having said that since using single seaters i cant drive any of the non wing saloons at all

[Calum]

yip ,

i must say , i hadnt heard about this high-nose thing until this post , but being still on DEMO , it probably wont matter , as there is problems staying on the track on some DEMO servers let alone getting a to top speed lol.

The new physics patch does sound good , will have S2 license by then :)

Calum

[RMachucaA]

well, funnybear, look at my stats on lfsworld, i think im competetive enough to not have to resort to abusing glitches.... I guess it makes winning that little bit more satisfying.

Anyhow, im pretty much relegated to put up with it, so... i guess i'll stop ranting now :P.

As for the setups, i find it evolves with time, as you try new things, for example, for the f08 i always had F1 like sets, pretty stiff with little damping, as i drive more and more, im finding that a softer suspension is more suitable for keeping the power down, trick is to maintain the nimbleness.... so its allways evolving... a lot of trial and error, but the payoff is worth it.

[Funnybear]

If you enter into the S2 world Calum (which I strongly urge you to do) then the high nose bug is something that effects downforce cars espeacially. It seems that the reflective force from the spoilers only operates as a 'direct' reflection. I.e the force pressing the car down is reflected perpendicilar to the angle of the Spoilers. So if the spoiler is pointing backwards (Using a high nose setup and the absense of ground effect) then it effectily adds a propulsive effect to the car giving you more bang for your buck.

It's only really obvious on tracks where top speed is paramount. You can't drive without using the exploit on the Oval. But on other tracks it really doesn't interfere so much.

It's a big thing for the single seaters but the only other car I have heard that might be effected by it with any great degree is the FZR. But that was only in passing so I'm not sure how true that is.

[Calum]

i see now i think ,

funnybear thanks for the info and explanation.

Calum

[sinbad]

I made plenty of setups in the early days of S2 alpha, but now I'm almost totally reliant on what I have seen others do with their setups. I would never have even tried a locked diff in a GTi, or the crazily low tyre pressures that you sometimes see, and I certainly wouldn't have jacked the nose of the FOX up like that.

[danowat]

Yeah, there are some curious pratices going on in the setups, taking advantage of certain physics flaws.

Dan,

[HorsePower]

Just one remark about this nose bug: In the world of LFS there are certain laws of physics, which aren't the same as in the real world.

So, until LFS-physics get closer to real-life physics (which will happen very soon hopefully), I don't see any problem in using the nose-bug, which is part of the LFS-physics.

Since everyone knows it, everyone can use it. Even if it isn't realistic.

What counts for me is, that all racers are driving under the same conditions, so that only driving skills and setup-skills are making the difference.

Not using the nose bug at the moment might be an ethically praiseworthy behaviour, but then you are making life unecessarily hard for you (in my opinion).

In the end, LFS is just a game and not the real life. You can only simulate real-life physics up to certain limits, e.g. you have no g-forces and there's also the tyres bug, which you cannot change with your set.

But anyway, the physics will be changed very soon and this discussion will come to an end by then. And I really was irritated too when I first saw these high noses :tilt:

Keep racing.

[Vain]

My high-nose-statement:
It looks silly, I don't use it. I won't ever finish a race in the FOX as first, but who cares. That's better than driving such a silly setup. :)

My setup-statement:
When I try a new combo I usually make my own setup. When I know the track and drive competitive times with my setup I get online and take a look at other people's setups. Usually I end up using a setup someone gave me, but that's because I don't fully understand all aspects of the setups.
Often I also use the setups from other people as an inspiration. Like "Hey, I never thought of that idea!" and do something similar in my own setup, influenced by my own preference.

Vain

[mr_x]

the only thing i know how to adjust on setups is suspension (height and stiffness only) and tyre pressures, the rest i have no idea about, so i usually ask for someones setup and adjust it to my own preferance through suspension and tyre perssures, 75% of the time the setup suits my driving style (or my driving style goes into the type of set), so i dont have to change it much, if at all, but sometimes there is one that understeers too much, so change suspension and tyres and its fine for me.

i will have to learn how to make setups soon, must be a great sense of acheivement when you get one right and see a PB appear at the top of the screen.

[mrodgers]

I can't build setups from scratch. I have no idea where to start. I have no idea what the car needs starting from garbage. I rely on either inferno (which I usually try to set the nose back to reasonable heights) or the kind folks and friends on the servers.

I can take a given set and tweak it here and there for my driving. A click here, a click there. Get the back a little looser, tighten up the front, whatever, I just don't know where to start with making my own set. I did it way back in the beginning of my demo days and someone said, "what the heck did you do to your set?" I was like, "er, I don't know."

There's my question for you all who do make your own sets. What do you start with? Someone elses set? The default Race_1 set?

[Vain]

Usually I drive around a bit with the race_1 set or bob's easy race setup. Just to get an impression of the car and what it needs on this track. Then I think "well, quite bumpy, a soft suspension would be better" or "quite narrow and short turns, I'd choose high values for the diff" (at least I prefer that). That way I come from the one thing to the other and at the end I'm left with a setup that gets me around the track quite okay.

Vain

[Hyperactive]

Good thing you are doing your own, its best since you know what you can do to get that tenth of a second less on the next adj.

Was this directed at me?

I almost fully agree with you with the fact that building your own setups is the best way to go. Understanding the different settings and altering them to suit your driving style is one of the challenges that good simulators always throw at you first.

However building good setups takes time and many laps of trial and error before it's any good. I am not ready to invest hours for just driving around on some track setting up my car. And the setups that are available at team inferno's site are always better than the setups I end up with.

I was some time ago very much against the high nose setups but the fact that I did 3 seconds faster time on F08 @ WE1 made me change my stuff. I am not anywhere near the good drivers and giving them the benefit of better setups would make me totally uncompetitive.

And after all it's the driving that makes the car go fast, though the setups play a big role in it.

:)

[Bob Smith]

I think if you don't take advantage of the high nose bug (for example) at the moment then you can't race competativly.
I've just finished 4th in the MRNL FOX league (drivers are mostly between competent and alien abilities) and I was usually the only driver to not use the high nose exploit. It certainly slowed me down compared to what I could have been doing by using it. It just felt more honest.

And maybe I'm just that damn good I don't need it. ;)

[wsinda]

Wouldn't it be better if setup possibilities were restricted for online races? For example, when entering a race you would have to use a certain setup (or have a choice of 2 or 3 predefined setups).

Racing should be a test of your driving skills, not of your ability to find holes in the physics model (nor of your social engineering skills, to get copies of the champs' setups).

[danowat]

Wouldn't it be better if setup possibilities were restricted for online races? For example, when entering a race you would have to use a certain setup (or have a choice of 2 or 3 predefined setups).

Racing should be a test of your driving skills, not of your ability to find holes in the physics model (nor of your social engineering skills, to get copies of the champs' setups).

I made a similar suggestion for the ESL UK league, my idea was poo-poo'd :thumb:

Dan,

[Funnybear]

Well, yes. In a way you are right. But LFS technically shouldn't have any Physics holes and hopefully that state of Nirvana is on the way so the skills you have in setting up a car are just as valuable as your driving skills.

In RL racing you have a team that is dedicated to getting your car set up just right for a given track. They sift through reams and reams of telemetry and input to try and tweak bits here and nip other bits there just to get that extra few K's down the straight or an extra lap from the tyres. So Physics bugs aside a setup is invaluable to running your car fast and competativly.

Sure people could set up their own one make, one setup servers. It might be entertaining but for me, setups are where it's at. As well as the driving. That's there too. But without the Setting up it's only halfway there . . well maybe slightly more than halfway. But not much.

I've just been inputting my latest Setup testing for my FZR and already my PB's are dropping. 1.09.65 for BW. Mid 1.43 for AS. Nat. 1.39.xx for KY. Nat.

Did I say that I loveed this game?

[danowat]

All thats fine, but in many classes of motorsport IRL, there isn't the infinitesimal amount of tweaking that there is in LFS, the gearbox is a perfect example, ATM I can choose thousands of different ratios in a XFG, that just isnt possible IRL.
The same with spring/damper and ARB settings.

Dan,

[Vain]

A server should be able to set specific parts of the setup to a fixed value. That reflects reality. Yet, it is important that on other occasions we can alter the setup. Every race is a combination of setup and driver, and that's especially true in endurance races. I want to be able to decide myself how oversteery the car is because that influences the tyre lifetime and ultimately influences my strategy.

Vain

[danowat]

I'd be more than happy with a more restrictive, more realistic setup system, it should reflect reality on as many levels as possible.

Of course we should be able to set a car up as we wish, but it should be within certain parameters.

Dan,

[Vain]

I understand. I also find it quite... interesting... that we can manipulate the gearbox of the GTI that much. Usually you'd have 1 standard gearbox, one Cup-gearbox and perhaps 2 aftermarket-gearboxes.
Same goes for suspensions.

Vain

[eindewege]

I've just finished 4th in the MRNL FOX league (drivers are mostly between competent and alien abilities) and I was usually the only driver to not use the high nose exploit. It certainly slowed me down compared to what I could have been doing by using it. It just felt more honest.

And maybe I'm just that damn good I don't need it. ;)

Well you know, driving fast laps is one thing, racing is another :razz:

I'd rather not use a high nose, 'cos it looks horrible, but since its seconds faster on some tracks...

I used a high-nose setup sometimes and I ended up 3rd, but of course this had more to do with my 'superior' driving skills *cough**cough* :D

[Bob Smith]

I used a high-nose setup sometimes and I ended up 3rd, but of course this had more to do with my 'superior' driving skills *cough**cough* :D
Meh, I still beat you in GTR League. :D

[eindewege]

Meh, I still beat you in GTR League. :D

Ill be looking for you in my mirror next season :razz:

[sinbad]

I'd be more than happy with a more restrictive, more realistic setup system, it should reflect reality on as many levels as possible.

Of course we should be able to set a car up as we wish, but it should be within certain parameters.

Dan,

I agree. LFS seems to be confused about a few things. Its aim is to be a realistic representation of cars, driving, racing, motorsport, I'm sure we'd all agree on that. Car setups seem to have been almost totally overlooked though, and things are adjustable purely because they can be adjustable rather than because the real-life equivalent can be adjusted in the exact same way.

Are the gear ratios so adjustable just to show off the fact that the gear ratios have been programmed with that level of adjustability? Are 4 diffs available in the road cars just to show off the fact that 4 diffs have been modelled? etc etc

I'd just like to see a little more focus sometimes from LFS. Pick a series (or car) and copy each and every element of it as closely as is legally possible.