STCC - Would You Watch It? [Archive]

Becky Rose

17th June 2009, 20:13

Should The STCC Return (43.8mb) Video (http://www.simtouringcartv.com/movies/Should%20The%20STCC%20Return.wmv)
EDIT: Felplacerad has kindly provided some mirrors.
Mirror 1: Streaming Mirror (http://fel.liveforspeed.se/vod/)
Mirror 2: Stream/Download Mirror (http://filer.liveforspeed.se/dump/files/movies/Should The STCC Return.wmv)

I'm fielding for feedback and opinions on broadcasting of a live LFS series, i'm very keen to know if a series as I describe in the first 5 minutes of this video is one you might be interested in watching.

The basic premise, if you don't want to watch me talking (in which case just answer no in the poll :P) is to bring back the STCC broadcast league, but moving it on to new standards within a live broadcast framework with a homemade studio show.

Providing a full afternoon of entertainment with the half hour feature race, all of the preceeding heats, driver interviews, and stewarding discussions and decisions all live.

If you want to know more i've linked a video above. I couldn't put it on You Tube as it's 12 minutes long (5 minutes about broadcast format, 7 minutes extra info for those interested in the series) and they've done away with my ability to upload over 10 minute videos ( grrrr! ).

DevilDare

17th June 2009, 20:16

Yes please!

Although I cant see the video :(

But anyways, I think it would be great!

Edit - Now I can :)

dan926

17th June 2009, 20:26

yes 100%

Danke

17th June 2009, 20:27

I was a big fan of the original STCC broadcasts, and I'm sure I'd watch these too, although not live. I hardly watch anything live anymore. If it weren't for my DVR I'd never watch any racing at all.

h3adbang3r

17th June 2009, 20:31

Absolutely.

Becky Rose

17th June 2009, 20:32

although not live
That's a good point, the 'afternoon' of racing would be broken up into a number fo shows and each race show would be downloadable. Some of the between session stuff might not be, but that's a detail a long way from being figured out.

I should also mention btw, if you are interested in being on the broadcast or race control team and can get to Cambs please PM me I would love to hear from you :)

daloonie

17th June 2009, 20:48

Video "podcasts" would be interesting. Definately.

Danas

17th June 2009, 21:00

Allways loved the STCC series. Absolutely for this :thumb:

Wilko868

17th June 2009, 21:08

Bring it back please :thumb:

I know we tried to use a similar idea as the STCC with the TBO Challenge, although our broadcasts were nowhere near yours. Im sure it would be brilliant :thumbsup:

J@tko

17th June 2009, 21:18

Ooh I'm near Cambs :smileypul :D

Anyway I'd definitely watch it - the old STCC vids were awesome :thumb:

aroX123

17th June 2009, 21:20

I spendt all my time watching the same races over and over again so i guess i will like this :D

I want to also race :(

Mackie The Staggie

17th June 2009, 21:21

Sounds very ambitious Becky, and if you do go ahead then I wish you all the best with it, and obviously if I could help in any manner than I could without a doubt.

As for the event, I'm sure that it will be worth tuning in much like the downloads of the STCC in the old times.

audimasta

17th June 2009, 21:47

Absolutely! It was awesome to race in the STCC. Would love to race again, but wouldn't mind watching either :D

zeugnimod

17th June 2009, 21:53

I definately would watch.

DeadWolfBones

17th June 2009, 21:56

But of course. Especially if it means watching Nolan or PMD win it all. :D

ATC Quicksilver

17th June 2009, 22:12

I would definately watch it. I would want to enter too but sadly my work timetable is randomly generated by a computer, and computers don't understand that weekends are meant for motorsport not work.

amp88

17th June 2009, 22:20

Would like to watch (rather than take part).

TiJay

17th June 2009, 22:24

The STCC videos were brilliant, they really merged sim and real racing... if that makes sense :)

ajp71

17th June 2009, 22:36

Unfortunately I very rarely have time to watch any racing on TV, and a full afternoon of it isn't something I'm likely to bother with. A short highlights program (max. 15 mins) for the afternoon would be more appealing to me, I found the previous series to long to find time to watch.

Widdowmaker

17th June 2009, 22:58

I understand what you want to do, your video was very informative. I am not what I would call a virtual motorsports spectator. I can sit and watch my team mates racing a couple of laps - but thats about it.

I am an avid fan of motorpsort tho, and If I had a particular person or 2 - who I was interested in watching - then yes - I would.

I normally fall asleep for the GP... watch the start and finish - but I think that an LFS race day would be a good idea and may hold my interest.

I only say "May" as I am not sure.

Good luck with the Project :thumb:

PMD9409

17th June 2009, 23:08

Not only would I like to race it, I would probably also watch it on-demand. :)

Vain

17th June 2009, 23:53

Naturally I'll be there for STCC2.
I still once in a while check the old stcc forum because I'm still looking for that last round of the STCC that never aired.

As a spectator I'd personally prefer a non-live version. It makes the broadcast a lot cooler because you (Becky) have some time to work on it and re-do all the mess-ups if they happen. "We're sorry for the problems with the overlays" doesn't really excuse for the fact that the live-overlay got all the driver's names or cars wrong. I'd rather see a non-live version where the overlays are properly fixed than a live version with issues.
For me watching STCC was about making space one day of the week, closing the windows, shutting off the mobile and watching a good show of action packed racing. A live-show can deliver that, but the recorded version will do it a lot better at a fraction of the work.

Vain

dawesdust_12

18th June 2009, 00:21

I would only take part. I highly enjoyed the format that we used in the last races. No live stuff plz, just use the old style of it.

Dmt

18th June 2009, 00:46

Guys! your chanse! Becky inviteing to her place! :nod:

tristancliffe

18th June 2009, 00:51

Just hope I don't commentate again and melt your ears with my [apparently] unexcitable voice...

(Though I think I have quite an emotive, versatile voice in real life? :p)

lizardfolk

18th June 2009, 02:08

The STCC was the main reason why I bought LFS. I remember with rFactor sitting in front of me and me thinking and going back to this small independently developed software titled Live for Speed. I had no idea what sim racing was, and I had no idea how professional it could be.

Then I ran into the STCC and my mind was made up.

In fact, the STCC has the potential to reach people outside of the Live for Speed community. I've used the STCC videos multiple times as a pitching tool to help sim racers buy LFS.

Bring it back Becky. I would love to compete myself but I would also love to watch as well

MadCat360

18th June 2009, 02:28

I'd watch if it was available as an archived download, I doubt I'd watch live (I don't even watch real races live). Honestly what with replays and such it would probably be a lot easier to not have it as a live deal.

shiny_red_cobra

18th June 2009, 02:29

Hmmm ... live broadcasts ... that would be cool ... but I hope you record them as well, cause people like me here in north america may not be able to enjoy it live since it may be happening too early in the day for me. :shrug: But other than that, I really enjoyed the old STCC broadcasts, so I look forward to seeing this happening soon.

jbirdaspec

18th June 2009, 05:21

Yes. A random youtube search lead me to STCC and that lead me to LFS. Honestly a milestone for me since sim racing is a big part of my life ever since.

LFS needs something like STCC and live coverage would just be one better.

Do it Becky. Many will watch.

- Jay Odom

Timdpr

18th June 2009, 05:44

STCC round 11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX8i3E1ORl4&feature=channel_page)

Look at when that vid was uploaded, then take a look at my join date! :D (11th December 2007)

Okay, that's not quite right, I had found LFS a while before I found the STCC videos, so I didn't find LFS through that, but it did persuade me to buy an S2 license, and I went on to the forums when I did! So thank you Becky!

I can't say for certain that I'll watch the live stuff (though I will certainly try) but I will watch the downloadable stuff. Definately.

Kid222

18th June 2009, 07:26

Yes!:thumb: Not only to watch, but also to participate. Start in STCC is one of my last personal goals, i want to achieve in LFS.

modelmotorracing

18th June 2009, 07:35

Watched the video all the way through, sounds very interesting, but I doubt if I would be able to afford a whole Saturday to sit and watch the proceedings, too much other family stuff going on. Having said that, I used to think I wouldn't be able to find the time to watch the Inside Sim Racing programmes on Youtube but actually I do. Whether that has anything to do with Jessica Lopez is another matter :shrug:.

I think I would be more likely to try and find time to tune in to as much as I can, if there were some people racing I know or can relate to. So if one of the Inside Sim Racing guys was taking part for example. Or a reasonably famous real life or ex- racing driver, that kind of thing. Either way, full driver profiles, photos, race history etc. for all participants on a supporting web site would be essential, so you really know who you're watching. As opposed to just watching a load of driver names moving up and down the list.

pacesetter

18th June 2009, 08:12

I'd watch this, and it would also generate lots of interest in racing again, as lots of people seem to be looking elsewhere because of LFS' development speed.

Becky Rose

18th June 2009, 08:16

Thank you all for the replies so far I have read and apprecited all of them.

Just hope I don't commentate again and melt your ears with my [apparently] unexcitable voice...

(Though I think I have quite an emotive, versatile voice in real life? :p)

awww, noes you aren't unexcitable, you just got shouted down every time something exciting happened *whistles innocently*

LRB_Aly

18th June 2009, 08:18

I voted I want to take part as a driver, but also in season 1 I always downloaded the videos to watch them afterwards.

pacesetter

18th June 2009, 08:19

Another thing that has popped into my head, would you be doing support races, like lets say a FOX race too or something? :)

Bean0

18th June 2009, 08:19

I'd watch it, and I'd love to compete again.

Becky Rose

18th June 2009, 08:25

Another thing that has popped into my head, would you be doing support races, like lets say a FOX race too or something? :)
By holding 2 STCC events a day, if we followed last seasons format, you would get 10 heat races and 2 feature races during the afternoon of proceedings with live driver interviews and race control interviews and decisions all happening there and then.

That's a lot of racing ! Of course the feature races are the main events and the event would run to a schedule so you could tune in just for those if you wished.

To run support races aswell would take a very big race control team in the nerve centre and add a lot of work, I think heat is already likely to be an issue with equipment and 3-4 bodies all frenetically doing their job and I only have a little flat now not the big house I used to have, so I think no to running any additional series alongside the project: One bite at a time.

Becky Rose

18th June 2009, 08:53

Firstly i'll say all drivers from the original series who wish to take part would be welcomed back. I said this back then and i'll say it again now :) - I love you guys.

I know there was some stuff between myself and one team that's well reported, as far as i'm concerned it's a fresh slate. All forgiven, no discussion necessary.

As a spectator I'd personally prefer a non-live version. It makes the broadcast a lot cooler because you (Becky) have some time to work on it and re-do all the mess-ups if they happen.
One of the things i've found with my rather slow and lacklustre Blue 2 development is that i'm just not inspired by LFS at the moment. For me broadcasting came before the desire to build grand licencing systems, working in television has always been a passion of mine ever since I was first exposed to the industry. I know that sounds odd given that I dont actually have a TV, but that's me I like to create I dont particularly consume. I have had a number of jobs in and around television and very much enjoyed them all, I was even a failed actress once :).

What appeals to me about this project, is despite that i've not done very much racing in LFS over the last few years, is it interests me. I'm excited by the prospect and the challenge and it gives me enthusiasm to get it done.

Whereas Blue 2 at the moment just feels like a chore - I develop software for a living already, and i'm not particularly enjoying putting it together.

STCC always inspired me because I love the whole concept, the thought of doing it live gives me goosebumps. It's a project I can throw myself into and hopefully really enjoy.

Regarding workload, it was always clear to me I could not do everything I took onboard to do in season 1, I need other people, and with online gaming it can be a pretty casual thing for some doing the less glamarous work.

By getting everybody into the recording studio and getting them involved, making them part of the whole experience, I hopefully give them a more enjoyable role that will enthuse them to really get involved too - and with everybody right there, it's kinda hard to shirk responsibility and take a few weeks to respond :).

"We're sorry for the problems with the overlays" doesn't really excuse for the fact that the live-overlay got all the driver's names or cars wrong. I'd rather see a non-live version where the overlays are properly fixed than a live version with issues.
Well technical problems can occur live this is true. If I can I would like to get dedicated machinery for the duration of the season but I dont know if I can pull it off. Certainly, i'll be happy to take off from work a day before the event to get everything set up and tested and working. Preperation is the key to everything running smoothly, and i'd hope if I can put a team together that there will be a dry run on a 4th day - probably the qualifying events - to get everybody up to speed with their roles, and to team bond (I live next door to a pub afterall :) ).

What I can say is I will have a lot of proprietry tools, possibly even some hardware (there is some specifics I have not worked out - particularly relating to sound), it wont be like other broadcasts at all. I'll use In house bespoke technology to deliver something new and fresh.

Joe_Keaveney

18th June 2009, 10:03

Hi Becky,

I'm absolutely thrilled to see you're thinking of bringing back STCC. I remember watching the videos and enjoying the commentary and action. The iTCC broadcasts (although very different in a lot of ways) are inspired by those videos you and your team produced for STCC.

One thing I wonder if you've considered - your internet connection. Obviously, when you're producing a video for download/streaming, you can go to a lot of trouble to get the format and bitrate just right. The quality of your live broadcast will depend on your upstream bandwidth (hence the relatively low quality of iTCC's broadcast - my bandwidth is 440Kbps - to achieve a smooth streaming experience means I'm uploading at about 220 Kbps). So maybe you've already thought about this, but I'd just like to offer that piece of information if it helps.

On the same point, although perhaps there are other streaming providers, the two that are free that spring to mind are Zaplive and Livestream(formerly Mogulus). iTCC uses Livestream, which place a bandwidth limit of 500 Kbps on their free streams. 500 Kbps should be enough for a good to very good stream provided your internet connection is up to providing it (I'd hazard a guess that you'd need 1Mbps upstream for a smooth 500Kbps streaming experience). Other options include Multi-BC, who have some very good hardware, and of course, buying Flash Media Encoder for a server (which is very expensive!)

Anyway, I hope I've been of help.

Lastly, with regards to feature races and the like, when are you thinking of bringing back STCC? This summer/autumn? I can't speak for the rest of the iCON team (I'll PM them later) but personally I'd love to involve a league series as a support championship to STCC ran as part of the broadcast..(I could broadcast the race). I'm thinking specifically of restricted XFRs (Clio Cup style racing) or a multi-car championship with most ROAD cars or (lastly) an LX4 championship.

Cheers,

Joe Keaveney

Becky Rose

18th June 2009, 10:31

One thing I wonder if you've considered - your internet connection.
This is something that does indeed worry me a lot, i've had a number of ideas regarding the internet connection. My main connection has 448 Kbps upstream, I hope to make this dedicated to the broadcast by using secondary connections.

Details have to be worked out, wine has to be purchased for neighbours, and i've got to check the speed of the teathering on my new mobile when I get it to see if I can use that for race control or ancillary web tasks or some such.

I'm also considering trying to arrange something a bit special, but i'm wary that I have a very small budget to work with and I may need some new machinery.

Regarding streaming services, I know there's a few out there now and I havn't picked which one that I will go with. I do not plan to host the streaming server myself, i'm hoping the audiance will be bigger than my ability to fund the bandwidth, I want to promote the series outside of LFS before it airs and bring in viewers - which means a lot of shouting loudly from rooftops. I'll be picking a streaming partner based on their capacity to handle viewer quantity.

Lastly, with regards to feature races and the like, when are you thinking of bringing back STCC? This summer/autumn?
I've not decided if yet let alone when, it could be 2010, it could be later this year, it might not even happen. Once the decision is made i'll be doing some development work, when that's taken shape i'll seek out the crew and figure out dates and then announce entries being open.

I can't speak for the rest of the iCON team (I'll PM them later) but personally I'd love to involve a league series as a support championship to STCC ran as part of the broadcast.
I think initially i'll say no, it's going to be a complicated setup already and I dont want to make it even more complex, for instance the scheduling of events alone would become more intricate and I cant imagine the implications if you had a delay or a server outage and that impacting on STCC or the broadcast, it adds variables that are better done once the operation is running smoothly and more rehearsed.

Later on, I can see how the format might expand to others broadcast teams for an even more packed 'afternoon' of racing, but two critical things need to happen for that. Firstly, we need spectators and secondly we need competitors and broadcast teams and a league centred around giving spectator action - and if you can find these people for your league then I want them in the STCC for the come back season :P

csurdongulos

18th June 2009, 12:12

you missed the option: yes, if I were in it :tilt:

Becky Rose

18th June 2009, 12:24

you missed the option: yes, if I were in it :tilt:
You're my raining champion, just put "Yes, Definately" and make sure you turn up on race day :).

hyntty

18th June 2009, 12:27

This is something that does indeed worry me a lot, i've had a number of ideas regarding the internet connection. My main connection has 448 Kbps upstream, I hope to make this dedicated to the broadcast by using secondary connections.

Details have to be worked out, wine has to be purchased for neighbours, and i've got to check the speed of the teathering on my new mobile when I get it to see if I can use that for race control or ancillary web tasks or some such.

I'm also considering trying to arrange something a bit special, but i'm wary that I have a very small budget to work with and I may need some new machinery.

Regarding streaming services, I know there's a few out there now and I havn't picked which one that I will go with. I do not plan to host the streaming server myself, i'm hoping the audiance will be bigger than my ability to fund the bandwidth, I want to promote the series outside of LFS before it airs and bring in viewers - which means a lot of shouting loudly from rooftops. I'll be picking a streaming partner based on their capacity to handle viewer quantity.

As I've learned a thing or two about this broadcasting thing, I'd firstly like to wish you good luck with the mountain you're about to climb - This will sure be one hell of a workload.

Then secondly, 448 kbps? I know it's sufficient, but since we are in 2009 already, that should be the low-res option. Taking into account the amount of hardware you will need additionally - allthough I don't know if you've already got it, it could be that you have about three gaming-spec computers which you will inevitably need for yourself - would some extra bandwidth, even though it might sound expensive, be expensive at all after all?

amp88

18th June 2009, 12:30

Then secondly, 448 kbps? I know it's sufficient, but since we are in 2009 already, that should be the low-res option. Taking into account the amount of hardware you will need additionally - allthough I don't know if you've already got it, it could be that you have about three gaming-spec computers which you will inevitably need for yourself - would some extra bandwidth, even though it might sound expensive, be expensive at all after all? This is all just speculative talk.

Blame the current UK telephone network. A lot of our 'high speed' broadband packages provide 8Mbps down / 448 kbps up. You can get 24 Mbps down / 1.5 Mbps up but it's not available in all areas.

Becky Rose

18th June 2009, 12:41

Yep, 0.4mbit upload (1.8mbit down) is the best that is available in my area. I live in a village but even in town I would not get much better.

I am going to try and pull of a bit of a coup regarding the connection - but it's a long shot - otherwise i'm affraid that's the best I can do for the live stream, i'm already paying through the teath just to have unlimited monthly data.

Regarding machinery, I do not have enough at the moment and I have a very limited budget. I may actually have no budget at all. Again, if I can blag it somehow I will, or maybe one of the crew (should I find any volunteers) will be able to bring a laptop or something.

Currently I have one medium spec PC that needs repair and a gaming capable laptop, it's simply not enough, I have 1 camera, a video switch box, a DVD-R for recording it all for later encoding of a HQ stream, and various other ancillery things, but I know I will need to obtain more PC's.

It's going to be on a budget, I am not wealthy, what little money I have this year I am hoping to have a holiday with. Currently i'm in a dispute with my old landlords over my deposit which if I loose I will be hamstrung on getting equipment as I have debts to pay off with it, so yah, it's going to be the creation of enthusiasm and love and not limitless budget :D

RevengeR

18th June 2009, 13:23

Csur, interested in being my teammate? :smileypul:D

dutchshogun

18th June 2009, 14:13

Yes, i would love to watch it, but even more: I'd LOVE to drive in it! :D

If you want a show, I'll be a good person :) hehe I drive with risk, but nice and fast :D

I hope you're really going to start it up again :) Technology has made a big improvement in the last couple of years, so everything became much better. In LFS and outside LFS :)

Edit: I've also got a teammate :P (Though you said to not reply yet :P I couldn't NOT do it :D)

Becky Rose

18th June 2009, 14:15

hehe I drive with risk, but nice and fast :D
You might want to watch the video before confessing that :scratchch

csurdongulos

18th June 2009, 14:33

You're my raining champion, just put "Yes, Definately" and make sure you turn up on race day :).

A raining champion? That would be a suitable description for an English lad, but not so for a Hungarian I reckon. But at least we have a half-official `announcement` on who last season`s champion was. :razz:

rev: I have some interest from my teammates in joining the STCC, so that`s a no-go right now. I don`t want a faster teammate anyhow. :D You can be our test driver though. :thumb:

Vykos69

18th June 2009, 14:43

Becky back in action? NICE! I cant promise, I'll watch it, but I'll definitely keep a close look on it.

NotAnIllusion

18th June 2009, 14:54

A raining champion?
Just in case there's a misunderstanding.. Reigning (read: defending, current) champion :thumb:

RevengeR

18th June 2009, 14:56

rev: I have some interest from my teammates in joining the STCC, so that`s a no-go right now. I don`t want a faster teammate anyhow. :D You can be our test driver though. :thumb:

See you on the grid then:smileypul

UnknownMaster21

18th June 2009, 15:17

hmm of course I would watch it! But I prefer it have to be Big Deal :thumb:

Becky Rose

18th June 2009, 15:17

I'm still very interested to hear from anyone who would want to be in the nerve centre on race day btw, if you can get to Huntingdon, Cambs. It cannot be done live by myself and very much needs to be a team effort, so if you have transport and live near enough that you can get here, and are keen to get involved in what I hope will be a major event for LFS/sim racing, then please get in touch.

I'll start recruiting in more earnest at a later time. I'm going to do some streaming tests this weekend with my main and teathered connection to see what it can handle and figure out the streaming stuff - then I will start putting together a new 'LIVE' version of X-Cam, i've got some great ideas for it, but i'll talk more about it once i've implemented them.

And yes, the last race sadly was never broadcast, it was not a stunning race, we attempted a 1 hour long circuit race and in retrospect we should have stayed with the formula that worked. It was too much for me to handle at the time and so Victor never properly got a proper announcement, so a bit late here goes

XRT #110 Victor Szabo of Team Inferno
Winner of the Sim Touring Car Cup 2006-2007 Season

I'll try and get it right next time.

Anyway keep the votes coming in, if there's loads of votes and a positive outcome it might be something I can use to try and blag some equipment :) - but do vote honestly please.

G!NhO

18th June 2009, 15:49

Would be great to watch this. :)

R3DMAN

18th June 2009, 15:58

i would watch it again, but i think i could possibly participate again.

maybe this time if you do go ahead with this it might be a good idea to get the rules sorted before you start, none of this changing rules 1/2 way through the league

also possibly force some things like forced cockpit, mandatory pit etc..

edit:

just an idea tho maybe to avoid one of the biggest problems (making the cars equal) possibly have a field of cars all the same, so its more down to setups and driver skill to complete a race.

TAYLOR-MANIA

18th June 2009, 16:11

Yeah i think the old broadcasts also played a part for myself in getting S2. Good stuff, sounds even better :thumb:
What i will say is that i hope you'll get enough satifaction from it to make it all worthwhile. Do us LFS drivers proud :woohoo:

csurdongulos

18th June 2009, 16:12

Just in case there's a misunderstanding.. Reigning (read: defending, current) champion :thumb:

I'm well over what she meant, was just trying to make fun of her spelling error :)

Becky, thanks for the announcement, though I always remembered my car no. being #110 :shrug:

Becky Rose

18th June 2009, 16:17

I see your point on the rules changes, but there is a flip side too. The original season ran for a long period of time and changes in LFS and car balance upset the class balance system, and I think from the start of the season the tweeks to the heat system was definately a positive one and was all part of finding and tuning a system to make it fair to drivers in each of the different classes - the DRB (Drivers Representative Board) was there to ensure that all changes maintained fairness and transparency with the drivers.

Other changes came on board with new developments such as the warm up lap. It must be remembered that the entire purpose of the league is to make a good show, so when a new development comes on board such as the new starting system we had for the final round of course we where going to use it - we'd be mad not too. This is what it meens to be on the same hymn sheet regarding being a series designed for broadcast.

The new season will be shorter, 6 races on 3 event days - probably a month apart maybe 2 weeks (depending upon the nerve centre crew's ability to attend), and we have the benefit of the wisdom learned from the first season, so mid season changes are less likely - but cannot be ruled out if tweeks to the format are shown to be necessary - as before any mid-season change will be put to the DRB to ensure it is fair for all competing drivers.

EDIT: Incidentally, you'd never have been allowed to rejoin in race 3 had we not changed the drop-out rule to accomodate you :P

Becky Rose

18th June 2009, 16:18

I'm well over what she meant, was just trying to make fun of her spelling error :)

Becky, thanks for the announcement, though I always remembered my car no. being #110 :shrug:
You're right, David Horvath was 127. Gah, I can't get anything right can I lolz.

anttt69

18th June 2009, 17:13

Dennis93

18th June 2009, 17:14

i would take part, if i could, aswell as watching it, i had great amounts of enjoyment watching the old STCC

AndRand

18th June 2009, 17:28

Certainly I would watch it, Becky. i hope the audience would be generous for commentators: you and Tristan commenting ypu coments in chatroom :)

Please post a notion with respectable advance.

Becky Rose

18th June 2009, 17:34

On the subject of funding how about a small entry fee from the entrants.
Say 100 people paying £2 each would give you at least some cash to play with. Obviously 100 drivers cannot all compete so you will have to whittle them down via quali races or heats. The small payment does not guarantee any driver a spot on the grid in the STCC, the drivers must earn their place.
I won't be charging an entry fee. At the end of the day £200 doesnt go very far given that anything that needs to be bought for the series is going to cost a lot more than that - so it would amount only to a contribution, and if it's the only source of income it is easy to see how in time that might become £3, then £5... and the intentions would be right, the outcome would be wrong.

I'm hoping I can do it without spending anything. I am doing some testing soon which will let me figure out if I need a 3rd machine. I know I have to fix my 2nd machine, but that is my cost to bear. Even if a third machine is needed it may be that somebody on the team could bring one, so it might not even be necessary to spend money at all. Yes money could be used for equipment and would all make the final result better, but I don't think money needs to be seen as an obstacle - ingenuity is born out of making do with what you have.

You never know, it might be that I can get some PC manufacturer on board to donate a prize, and use the prize for producing the series with..? It's plausable - and at least would meen I would get the prize before season end this time, as the title sponsor very much dissapointed me last season with lots of "I've sent it I dont know what has happened I will check" and the prizes never arrived. (Lesson learned, nobody gets any plugging this time until the prize is in my hands).

I'm not going to mention names, but I do know that a certain peripheral manufacturer keep up to speed on these forums - and if they stumble across this post it would be really appreciated if they made good on their promise and came on board for this season too. I'm sure there was a very good reason the despatch got messed up.

dawesdust_12

18th June 2009, 18:24

Becky Rose

18th June 2009, 18:27

yay. iget to race again
Yah, i'm good with that - and may I say what a pleasure it is to have read a post by you that in no way involved the Apple Mac. (i've gone and done it now ;p ).

Jakg

18th June 2009, 18:29

When were you thinking off Becky? For petrol there and back you can have PC#2 if you want (AMD Quad Core, ATi 4830, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD).

franky500

18th June 2009, 18:47

im not generally one for watching. But i would deffinately want to take part.

dutchshogun

18th June 2009, 19:25

You might want to watch the video before confessing that :scratchch

Well, i was watching the video while i wrote that :P When you said: I'm looking for a show, i typed that. Further to the end, i saw that you didnt mean THAT much show :P I thought i deleted that, but i didnt :P

Let's just say: I drive fast, with skill, and i know what to do in weird situations :shy:

ps. Maybe a tip: Don't let the superfast-already known- teams join it (no offence) since everybody already knows them. Give the not well known drivers a chance to prove themselves to the audience. (just a thought)

I'd rather watch races with less known people and support them, than to support people in the best teams, who always win, just because of mooooooooooore experience and laps etc.

Becky Rose

18th June 2009, 19:32

Well, i was watching the video while i wrote that :P When you said: I'm looking for a show, i typed that. Further to the end, i saw that you didnt mean THAT much show :P I thought i deleted that, but i didnt :P

Let's just say: I drive fast, with skill, and i know what to do in weird situations :shy:
So what you're saying is you're full of .... - :) I won't hold it against your application, you'll have the same chance to prove yourself as anyone else.

ps. Maybe a tip: Don't let the superfast-already known- teams join it (no offence) since everybody already knows them. Give the not well known drivers a chance to prove themselves to the audience. (just a thought)
Well there are a few different ways to look at it, one of them is that the STCC was at the time it was airing the pinnacle league of it's type, another is that it's an airy fairy championship run by somebody with dubious criminal and mental health histories...

In any case, i've been quite clear about the type of driver i'm looking for. The kind that ask questions on the forum and not during the event, that know the special rules and why we have them, who keep in mind always that it's a show of a motor race that mimmicks reality as close as possible for the viewer, and some personality in interview is a good thing too. All of these are more use to the STCC than outright speed.

Having said that, I was watching some races from last season and some of those guys where taking half a second out of some of the WR's in race trim. It's unlikely that an unheard of and previously unknown LFS racer is going to take the title - but hopefully all competitors will have fun and enjoy it, I think they all enjoyed season 1.

EDIT @Jakg: Thanks for the offer, i'll have to let you know nearer the time and when things are all sorted here - would you be wanting to get involved in the running of things too?

Jakg

18th June 2009, 19:39

EDIT @Jakg: Thanks for the offer, i'll have to let you know nearer the time and when things are all sorted here - would you be wanting to get involved in the running of things too?Racing - Not really.

Admin stuff - Sure - but I'm working every weekend...

Becky Rose

18th June 2009, 19:58

Racing - Not really.

Admin stuff - Sure - but I'm working every weekend...
Ack, in that case it's going to be a no on the above sadly because it will be a weekend event again. Never mind.

I do have a cunning plan at the moment, i'm a keyholder to a research lab in St Neots and i'll be there on Monday with my laptop checking out speedtest.net :) - if the connection is good enough i'll be seeking permission for it's use. I'm not sure if any of the gaming capable PC's are still there I think they have been redeployed, but with any luck i'll solve two hurdles with one jump.

james12s

18th June 2009, 19:59

i would definatly watch and if i was up to standard i would compete

i loved the stcc broadcasts originally so this should be even better

Shotglass

18th June 2009, 20:34

i dont think i can vote for any of these
yes id probably watch to feature race if they were still ~30-40 mins long and maybe some of the studio banter if its any good but a whole afternoon would be overstaying your welkome on my pc screen and much more commitment of me as a viewer than im willing to muster im afraid
also i think you screaming over the top of poor ol tristan was part of the appeal... at least for people who read the forum a bit and get the same guilty pleasure of listening to him losing to a girl

as for the drivers... i think throwing in a village idiot for comedic effect as you did in the rallycross race worked quite well

SamH

19th June 2009, 00:34

as for the drivers... i think throwing in a village idiot for comedic effect as you did in the rallycross race worked quite well

Ahh yes, Mr Rowe! :scratchch those were the days! :shy:

As to the question would I watch it, it would very much depend on video quality and broadcast "watchability". The original STCC series was high quality downloadable, and it made watching the STCC easy.

I've enjoyed Mr Passingham et al's commentary on endurance races, but the system that's being used there is datacentre-oriented video streaming. That's very specifically the reason why it's watchable.

I guess it comes down to "suck it and see". There's not really much point asking me if I'd watch it because I don't know what I'd be watching yet. I can say "yes" now, but if I do watch it and it's crap quality, I won't watch more than one (or part of one) event. Similarly, I might say "no" but on hearing how spectacular it is, be irresistibly drawn to tune in to every subsequent event. Obviously, by "I" I mean "a voter".

I will say, though, that before I'd commit to support the series by watching it and giving it my time (and it sounds like a lot of time), I'd want to have some assurance that, barring earthquakes underneath or tornadoes overhead, the series would run its course to completion. It's essential, and even if it kicks ass from the start, if it kicks the bucket yards from the end I'd be a very unhappy patron.

I'd really like to see a return of the STCC. I'd be happy if it was in the same format it was last time, honestly. If it was, I'd be a regular fan. The STCC did truly set a new and significant standard in sim racing broadcasting, there was nothing like it before, and everything since has in some way or another mimicked its spectator-oriented format. I think it would be possible to raise the bar significantly without changing the delivery format or moving to a live show.

I'm also concerned that in raising the bar, a new and improved version may not be able to deliver on its promise - the bandwidth limitations, financial constraints (budget cap!?) and logistics involved are clearly massive hurdles which must all be cleared simultaneously.

I really would very much like for it to happen and for it to succeed in all respects, so I'm just going to keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best for you in the project :)

Jakg

19th June 2009, 00:35

Can I ask what the advantage of being live is?

Mp3 Astra

19th June 2009, 00:38

STCC is the way I discovered LFS, and if you can provide what you're saying you will provide, it should be a very good show. But I think internet speeds would be a major problem. If you want to do a nice quality 'cast with multiple people in the house on LFS while also uploading video... I think it would be too hard. But I'm sure that's already been said and you may have a solution for that.

(and then 2 posts got made while I was typing)

It's a tough challenge, but if you pull it off, I'll be watching!

SamH

19th June 2009, 00:42

Can I ask what the advantage of being live is?

I'm assuming that's to Becky. To my mind, there isn't an advantage to it being live, apart from instant gratification.

If anything, the deferred gratification of a delayed broadcast added to the anticipation on the forum, and the giddiness that ensued resulted in more watchers. That was a very healthy/hearty part of the STCC that can't be retained by a live broadcast. For the live broadcast, if you can't see the race as it happens, you perceive that you've missed it - even if it's an option to download in 100MB chunks later.

ultrataco

19th June 2009, 06:43

Definitely yes, but It's unlikely I could see all the live broadcasts, depending on the time. Even if I could, it would still be nice to be able to save the races. I'm sure others feel the same way. I would think you'd have a larger audience if the races could be downloaded. You could have exclusive content (interviews, qualifying, etc.) for the live show to attract viewers, then make just the races available for download.

I still have the original STCC videos on my computer and re-watch some of them occasionally. I was hoping for more. The STCC was very good racing. I hope this works out.

dawesdust_12

19th June 2009, 07:18

Yah, i'm good with that - and may I say what a pleasure it is to have read a post by you that in no way involved the Apple Mac. (i've gone and done it now ;p ).

1) Posts can be edited.

2) What do you think the "iget" part was referring to?

:p

Becky Rose

19th June 2009, 08:13

2) What do you think the "iget" part was referring to?
lolz... *rolls eyes*

On the subject of live versus delayed:

The issue of live versus delayed is an interesting one. At the time of making the original STCC the desire to go out delayed was born out of wanting to do a good job and there not being the tools to do that live.

I do not think we ever did a good job of the pre and post race coverage, I knew back then it needed a studio show to bring it forward, perhaps with a few cuts to mini-stories or pre-recorded clips for the circuit guide etc. Add in live interviews to that recorded before and after the race, and it might finaly start looking like something cool.

The camera work we got right toward the end of the season with X-Cam, and other tools out there I feel have admirably replicated the STCC style of camera work. I'm going to move things forward again by using a short delay and replay streaming to do pre-emptive calculation on where to put the cameras - X-Cam will know not just when a pass is happening, but when it is about to happen, with it also handling timecode control there will be no buffer outage from using a streamed replay.

Add in live action replays to that mix, and give the studio team a menu that automatically builds a list of each pass and crash that they can recall at any time during or after the race, and we have moved things forward again.

So in short I dont think there is anything we where doing before that we cannot improve upon. Going out live adds more to the technical challenges than it does to workload - if anything my personal workload will be reduced - but I do need a small team of volunteers willing to give much more of themselves than most sim leagues have dared venture before, I need them to turn up and be on camera and be enthusiastic about the series for the 3 filming days.

If I can find those people, and can get the bandwidth necessary, it can be done.

NotAnIllusion

19th June 2009, 09:00

On the live vs delayed thing: whether it's football, racing, sim-racing, golf or whatever I never get the same "buzz" from watching something pre-recorded that I haven't seen before. I realise in a way it is actually the same as watching live because I don't know the outcome, but it's something in knowing that the result has already been decided and not anything can happen, only that which has already taken place . Might be illogical but that's my personal take from a viewer's perspective.

LRB_Aly

19th June 2009, 09:43

Jeez I know see I completely misunderstood the vote options. I got the wrong one, I clicked "I want to take part, don´t wanna watch it." I should ha´ve taken I watch if I can take part, that´s what I actually meant.

ultrataco

19th June 2009, 16:00

Why can't it be live and recorded? I don't really know how it all works, but will there not be a live feed you can capture, save, and stick on the web somewhere (youtube, torrent, etc)?

NotAnIllusion

19th June 2009, 16:21

Why can't it be live and recorded? I don't really know how it all works, but will there not be a live feed you can capture, save, and stick on the web somewhere (youtube, torrent, etc)?
From what I understand: If there would be a live broadcast feed, providing it as a downloadable VOD wouldn't be an issue I'd imagine. The issue is in that the demands on resources for such a high-standard live feed are significantly higher than pure post-race production. Becky is talking of physically setting up a home broadcast studio, people actually going on-site to manage it and possibly partnering with real-life business affiliates which brings huge demand to everything being absolutely guaranteed to work and being worth their input.

ultrataco

19th June 2009, 16:35

From what I understand: If there would be a live broadcast feed, providing it as a downloadable VOD wouldn't be an issue I'd imagine. The issue is in that the demands on resources for such a high-standard live feed are significantly higher than pure post-race production. Becky is talking of physically setting up a home broadcast studio, people actually going on-site to manage it and possibly partnering with real-life business affiliates which brings huge demand to everything being absolutely guaranteed to work and being worth their input.

Maybe they could find someone who can capture the video from the internet while it's being broadcast. I'm sure there's a way to do this (:shrug:), and it shouldn't be much (if any) extra work for Becky other than finding someone to do it. This person could also be responsible for uploading it somewhere.

Becky Rose

19th June 2009, 17:23

Providing a download afterwards of a live show is not a significant issue, the discussion over the "live" versus "delayed" broadcast is regarding not going out live in the first instance in order to produce a higher quality show. Taking time to polish it up and do lots of fancy post effects, like the way the replays fade in and out on the STCC videos and so on.

I think a lot of the fear of going out live is the STCC just being no more than existing live shows, but I think it's fair to expect I wouldn't be interested in doing that anyway.

I don't think an aweful lot can be added to the delayed method of broadcasting that cannot be done live with the right preperation, team, and tools: Removal of mistakes; and there being no risk of failure, are the only things that spring to mind.

ultrataco

19th June 2009, 18:04