Getting a new monitor

[Tomson(FIN)]

Hey,
So finally im willing to put some money for new monitor, not much, but inaf to get better monitor than my current one. Sizes are between 20"-22".
I founded 4 different kind of monitors, and im wondering if someone know something about this products/manufacturer, or would help me which one to choose.

products:
BenQ G2020HDA (20") 900*1600 resolution
BenQ G2220HDA (22") 1080*1920 resolution
ASUS VK222S (22") 1080*1650 resolution
Acer X223HQB (22") 1080*1920 resolution

So what ive heard, its basically bigger=better. But i really dont know how much differense there are between 900*1600 and 1080*1920 resolutions. Okay i get that there are hundreds of more pixels, but still.. I could save with 20" about 20-40euros :scratchch. And all those 22" are almost the same prices btw..

Not willing to look other monitors, so dont wanna hear something about "buy 24", its better, or buy this and that.. etc" I need info about this monitors, other products are to expensive in here. thanks :thumb:

[UncleBenny]

Well since you don't want to hear about other monitors, I'll just say get one of the 1920 ones, you definitely want the higher resolution.

[MijnWraak]

What graphics card do you have? If you don't have enough graphics horse power, a lower resolution will run games better.

Even if it is low powered, I'd recommend the 1920, also. You can always add a more powerful graphics card in the future.

[Tomson(FIN)]

I got now ati club 3d HD3850, i mean two of them (crossfire). Should be inaf i think.

[Shotglass]

my advice avoid all of them and get something at least semi decent without a tn panel and (imho) preferably a normal srgb non extended colourspace

[Tomson(FIN)]

my advice avoid all of them and get something at least semi decent without a tn panel and (imho) preferably a normal srgb non extended colourspace

Sounds expensive :scratchch

[Shotglass]

well theres a new dell 22" 1650*1080 display that comes with an ips panel (the best type money can buy) that apparently is very very good at srgb colours and it would cost you around 290€
should be much more pleasant to look at than any of the ones you listed if you care about image quality at all

[Tomson(FIN)]

well theres a new dell 22" 1650*1080 display that comes with an ips panel (the best type money can buy) that apparently is very very good at srgb colours and it would cost you around 290€
should be much more pleasant to look at than any of the ones you listed if you care about image quality at all

Well of course i would buy one of those if i got money :x That is like x2 more expensive.. so no more about that thanks. Starting to feel like that im going to buy that benq 22". Might be tomorrow in my desk.. but lets see :)

[Tomson(FIN)]

And the new monitor is:
BenQ G2220HDA (22")

Its what i wanted it to be :) No problems at all, i like it all around.

[Forbin]

When was the last time you visited an optometrist?

:tired: <--- Me looking at my laptop's TN panel, or any TN panel for that matter.

[DragonCommando]

BenQ monitors are known to be failure prone, I would have not gone for that one.

The company my mom used to work for got seven of them while she was there. I said that four of them would be dead in a month, just as a prediction.

In less than a month four out of seven died as I had predicted, the rest went shortly after a month. Now it's just a waranty game for them, it fails, they replace it.

[Bose321]

Where are the Samsung's? They're epic :thumb:

[hazaky]

Where are the Samsung's? They're epic :thumb:
What u mean? :)

Well, ive heard many complains about Samsung - that theyr not good.

But, i really would like to get one of them. This one (http://www.samsung.com/au/consumer/detail/spec.do?group=computerperipherals&type=monitor&subtype=lcdmonitor&model_cd=LS23LRZKUV/XY), worth it or i could get something better in that price?

[G!NhO]

Well, samsungs are really good. :)

[hazaky]

yea, the specs are good but i havnt heard ... technically any good stuff about them. Also, i found something new what looks nice and smooth too. Its for sale in compusa/tigerdirect too, found some nice reviews from there.

Acer H243HBMID - couldnt find the stuff in google tho :(

Edit: http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4242611

[petrewitz]

well theres a new dell 22" 1650*1080 display that comes with an ips panel (the best type money can buy) that apparently is very very good at srgb colours and it would cost you around 290€
should be much more pleasant to look at than any of the ones you listed if you care about image quality at all

IPS are definitely the best but I would not spend twice for it. I'd rather take cheaper monitor but buy it together with a color calibrating device
Neither IPS or TN panels have an adequate color and contrast representation out of the box. Sometimes IPS may be even worse especially when manufacturer wants to push it to more wider consumer segment of a market. With such a goal IPS panels tend to show even more weird and insanely over-saturated colors than cheap TN generally do.
What makes really jaw-dropping difference is the color calibrator. After the calibration the cheap TN monitor is also able to produce very natural picture. ( IPS copes with gradients much better although)

Tried quite a few IPS, PVA and TN monitors and all of them required very weird correction curve to be applied above a video-card output to show the actual colors.

[Shotglass]

no colour calibration will be able to correct the fundamental fault tn panels have which is their complete inability to display a single colour across the whole screen without gradients from top to bottom
nevermind that shifting from one side of your chair to the other will make all that work and money put into calibrating its worthless

[petrewitz]

Guess you mean narrower viewing angle on TN panels. In my experience it's not so bad unless you take very large monitor. Actually it have never bothered me. No more than too glossy screen at least. TN has also some color inconsistencies which comes not only from the viewing angle. But all that things are small, not very much apparent problems imho which do not make a lot of difference with IPS panels
The real problem is total and very strong color and contrast inaccuracy of modern monitors that plagued IPS panels the same way as TN. The difference produced by a color calibrator is often so amazing that it may take some time to be accustomed. Strong color shift, oversaturation of green and blue, color temperature set on 6500K while it's actually 9000K, too dark and flat shadows and washed out lights - those are very typical things on monitors just out of the box and it's much more apparent than hardly noticeable TN technology drawbacks.
That's why I think the calibrator is more important thing than type of matrix. It costs something but you don't need the most expensive pro one to have sufficient result and as regards of the calibration work it goes automatically after a few clicks in wizard like soft and takes no more than 15 min.

But of course ips + calibrator is better then tn. I only think that with restricted budgets tn + calibrator is probably better choice than just single ips panel

[Shotglass]

a tn panel which usually comes with a far too small lookup table uses dithering and all sorts of other rubbish coupled with a calibrator is a lot like putting a ferrari engine into a lada
itll improve things but the base is still rubbish (main difference of course is that a lada is actually enjoyable while a tn isnt)

and with tn panels 19" are tall enough to have a vertical viewing angle difference between the top and the bottom of the screen sufficient enough to make displaying a normal blue unicolour windows background impossible

and yes most tfts are horribly badly calibrated out of the box which is one of the many reasons why ill stick with my crt for the time being

[petrewitz]

The calibrator is not the ferrari engine. The decent for home use one may be less than an extra price of IPS panel over TN. Even CRT don't show correct colors actually unless calibrated. They always had been set a bit cold typically while new and then with aging process went unpredictably with each of their red, green and blue components.
But agree neither IPS or TN can come close to a fresh aperture grill CRT. Still own one and turn it on only for a photography work. Need to keep it alive as long as possible. Who knows how long it will be till we get available a new color accurate technology.

[C22_H20_O13]

There is no science about TN or VA or IPS monitors doing better than the other panel type. In the market you can find some very good TNs and some very bad IPS..

You can't be sure only looking at specs, because often (say always :tilt:) they don't follow specifications released by the manufacturer, so the best advice I can give you is to read press reviews to find the real world values (measured by instruments, not by marketing chiefs) of delay, colour fidelity, view angle etc. :thumb:

For color calibration again there isn't a "one size fits all" rule... Some monitors are very well calibrated at factory values and the rest don't.

EDIT: sorry, this post is rubbish. I'm leaving it intact only because of transparency

[petrewitz]

[QUOTE=C22_H20_O13;1203823Some monitors are very well calibrated at factory values and the rest don't.[/QUOTE]

That was true for old CRT monitors. Unfortunately for modern one it's not true unless you buy a pro monitor. Even big very expensive consumer class panels are sold being not correctly calibrated but with a single purpose to show most saturated and bright colors they capable.
Just go to a TV shop and ask to put a football or any sport show on the screens. Notice a grass color. 90% of them will show absolutely unrealistic acidly over-saturated green. The same story with a sky color. Take such a monitor at home and you will see those insane colors on your own photos.
Some people like it but it have nothing to do with what colors your camera actually captured and makes senseless any attempt to edit them in photoshop.

[C22_H20_O13]

That was true for old CRT monitors. Unfortunately for modern one it's not true unless you buy a pro monitor. Even big very expensive consumer class panels are sold being not correctly calibrated but with a single purpose to show most saturated and bright colors they capable.
Just go to a TV shop and ask to put a football or any sport show on the screens. Notice a grass color. 90% of them will show absolutely unrealistic acidly over-saturated green. The same story with a sky color. Take such a monitor at home and you will see those insane colors on your own photos.
Some people like it but it have nothing to do with what colors your camera actually captured and makes senseless any attempt to edit them in photoshop.
Absolutely right, but reading Tom's Hardware Italy I found the Philips 190CW8FB (http://www.tomshw.it/display.php?guide=20080305&page=monitor-lcd-19-piccoli-capaci-03) to be perfectly calibrated by default (see graphs), even if my father recently bought it for 99 euro :tilt:. Bold text says "Factory setting, 5000K, reported exactly 5000K, 6500K mode is at 6400K and 7500K is at 7500K! Perfect results!" and "It's not worth venturing into a manual calibration, because default settings are very good."

That's probably the exception..(?) :scratchch

[Forbin]

There is no science about TN or VA or IPS monitors doing better than the other panel type.

I hope I merely didn't catch some sarcasm here.

If not, that's some serious rubbish. There are fundamental flaws in all TN and VA panels that help reduce cost, TN panels in particular. IPS is by no means perfect, but there's a reason it costs so much more than the others.

[C22_H20_O13]

I hope I merely didn't catch some sarcasm here.

Why you extrapolated just a proposition? :(

There is no science about TN or VA or IPS monitors doing better than the other panel type. In the market you can find some very good TNs and some very bad IPS..

That was an observation of the fact that some IPS panels do worse that TNs in the "not so cheap but cheap" price tag (< 350 euro for 22").

Not mentioning the bang/bucks ratio. No sarcasm intended. :D

EDIT: serious rubbish

[Forbin]

That was an observation of the fact that some IPS panels do worse that TNs in the "not so cheap but cheap" price tag (< 350 euro for 22").

Worse how?

And with the exception of one I think I may have heard of recently, there aren't any 22" IPS panels. 22" panels are almost entirely TN with a few VA's here and there.

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php/Master_Monitors_List_22%22

My 20" IPS panel (NEC 20WMGX2, no longer in production) cost $550 USD a couple years ago. The Acer Ferrari F-20, also a 20" IPS panel, still sells for $500+ USD. The NEC 2490WUXi (24" IPS) still sells for $1000+ USD.

A monitor tends to be a longer-term purchase than all other computer hardware and you get what you pay for.

[C22_H20_O13]

Worse how?

Dell 2209WA, 22" IPS, 334,80 € directly from Dell, good monitor all around, but has a deltaE of 3.6 with a good calibration!
Not bad, but I expect an IPS panel do better..
In fact the Philips 220CW9, 22" TN, 180 €, has a deltaE of 3.3 with factory calibration but after tuning the gamma peaks at 2.6!

source (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=it&sl=it&tl=en&u=http://www.tomshw.it/display.php%3Fguide%3D20090416)

If you read the 2209WA's review you can find what I wanted to say in my earlier post: "TN panels are often criticized for their lack of homogeneity and for very tight vision angles. On these two points, IPS panels are better than the TN ones, but not because of this are perfect." :)

Obviously this is only true for cheap IPS, I don't want to even compare good IPS (>= 500€) with TNs = no way :)

EDIT: I found a good site for LCD monitor reviews http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/

[MataGyula]

... I found the Philips 190CW8FB (http://www.tomshw.it/display.php?guide=20080305&page=monitor-lcd-19-piccoli-capaci-03) to be perfectly calibrated by default (see graphs), even if my father recently bought it for 99 euro ...

I'm looking for a montior around 100€, but couldn't find that model you recommended, only 190CW9FB - costs 105 € :P would you recommend this for surfing the internet + watching movies ? (it's going to be used by my sister, cause the CRT she has is getting very blurry)

[Forbin]

Color accuracy at a single given point may vary between monitors, I'll give you that. However, the important thing to note is this: colorimeters measure color at a single point directly over the monitor surface.

In the scientific sense, this is good because it eliminates variables. In the practical sense, it doesn't tell you anything more than the accuracy of the color at a small point straight ahead with your eyes held perfectly perpendicular to that point. It doesn't tell you anything about any of the other visual qualities (or lack thereof) of the monitor. Therefore it is an insufficient tool for naming a specific monitor or monitor type "better" than another.

[petrewitz]

Absolutely right, but reading Tom's Hardware Italy I found the Philips 190CW8FB (http://www.tomshw.it/display.php?guide=20080305&page=monitor-lcd-19-piccoli-capaci-03) to be perfectly calibrated by default (see graphs), even if my father recently bought it for 99 euro :tilt:. Bold text says "Factory setting, 5000K, reported exactly 5000K, 6500K mode is at 6400K and 7500K is at 7500K! Perfect results!" and "It's not worth venturing into a manual calibration, because default settings are very good."

That's probably the exception..(?) :scratchch

I read that article last year and actually bought that monitor too. I had some doubts already in the store and after I did all the same measurements with my own calibrator it turned out that it is not so good as the article describe it. It has quite a bit stronger oversaturation in green toward the light part of a spectrum than that is shown in the article graf. And while it was really better than some not so expensive IPS panels out of the box it is noway as perfect as they told. Also it was set too contrast by default. At least that one I bought. All the lit spots on pictures had been a bit overexposed and washed out before I calibrated it.

[petrewitz]

Color accuracy at a single given point may vary between monitors, I'll give you that. However, the important thing to note is this: colorimeters measure color at a single point directly over the monitor surface.

In the scientific sense, this is good because it eliminates variables. In the practical sense, it doesn't tell you anything more than the accuracy of the color at a small point straight ahead with your eyes held perfectly perpendicular to that point. It doesn't tell you anything about any of the other visual qualities (or lack thereof) of the monitor. Therefore it is an insufficient tool for naming a specific monitor or monitor type "better" than another.

The difference in calibration results that you may have from placing the colorimeter on other position is almost non-existent unless you have really bad monitor or place the calibrator to the very corner of the screen.

And yes, the colorimeter don't tell you that your monitor is bad. It makes your monitor show true actual colors instead of those over-saturated and over-contrasted which set by default in consumer class monitors usually to attract unsophisticated buyers. I prefer to see actual colors that my cameras do and thus the accuracy is most important thing imho.

[C22_H20_O13]

Color accuracy at a single given point may vary between monitors, I'll give you that. However, the important thing to note is this: colorimeters measure color at a single point directly over the monitor surface.

In the scientific sense, this is good because it eliminates variables. In the practical sense, it doesn't tell you anything more than the accuracy of the color at a small point straight ahead with your eyes held perfectly perpendicular to that point. It doesn't tell you anything about any of the other visual qualities (or lack thereof) of the monitor. Therefore it is an insufficient tool for naming a specific monitor or monitor type "better" than another.

Viewing angle measurements are meant for that :tilt:
Btw I don't mind about view angle because I'm always facing the monitor :shrug:

[pb32000]

Viewing angle measurements are meant for that :tilt:
Btw I don't mind about view angle because I'm always facing the monitor :shrug:

However, say you are sitting 50cm away from a 24" monitor, with minimal trig you can see your up/down viewing angle is ~20 degrees each way. Far from perfect, and would cause problems with a TN.

[Forbin]

Viewing angle measurements are meant for that :tilt:
Btw I don't mind about view angle because I'm always facing the monitor :shrug:

TN panels present a gradient across the length of the screen as a result of poor viewing angle, regardless of where you view it from. This is most noticeable with solid colors. My IPS panel, well, doesn't.

[Shotglass]

Dell 2209WA, 22" IPS, 334,80 € directly from Dell, good monitor all around, but has a deltaE of 3.6 with a good calibration!
Not bad, but I expect an IPS panel do better..

whoever told you that clearly doenst know how to calibrate monitors
http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2009/test-dell-2209wa-teil10.html

thats an average of 0.9

[tristancliffe]

Perhaps someone wants to help me choose a new screen.

I don't really want to go above 22" or 1680x1050 (16:10), mainly because I'd rather have a slightly higher frame rate in games, and save a few quid. I've only got a little HD4870 card to power it, and it'll not be long before I have to turn down the settings in games to get acceptable performace. Oh, and I want to use DVI. Even better would be a built in USB hub or card reader too, but I'm willing to accept these add to the cost, and are really just unimportant extras :)

I'd also like to avoid a TN panel (having read some of the comments on here, and a little about them elsewhere), but most of the reviews and specification pages don't mention the type of screen used.

And finally - the tough bit - I don't really want to spend more than about £170/€200 on it if I can help it.

So, what would you lot suggest?

[Jakg]

Dell UltraSharp 2209WA - £199 at OcUK - http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-032-DE&utm_source=froogle

Uses an IPS panel.

[tristancliffe]

Thank you. Ordered and should arrive tomorrow. Bit pricier that I would have preferred, but it's absolutely worth it. Ticks all the boxes. My brother just told me he bought one, and loves it.

[fujiwara]

You people should be aware that HP monitors are very glossy, if you like to see youself in a mirror :D ..go for it.

[tristancliffe]

Yup, but this one is non-glossy. I don't like glossy screens either.

[anttt69]

You people should be aware that HP monitors are very glossy, if you like to see youself in a mirror :D ..go for it.
I have a HP monitor & it is not glossy at all :shrug: ?

[Jakg]

I have a HP monitor & it is not glossy at all :shrug: ?The newer ones are

[Shotglass]

i can assure you that the latest hp has to offer in 24" (2475w which is rubbish despite the ips panel btw) is definitely non glossy

[Gaiajohan]

I have the LG W2261V-PF
22"
Non glossy
1920*1080
HDMI+DVI+VGA

€177

And it's got Gold award at Hardware.info

[hazaky]

I can recommend Acer H233H to anyone, just got it. Damn, its so damn sweet! If anyone's intrested - feel free to PM me :)