Drift points system idea

[Leprekaun]

Hey ppl, I got this idea about 2 weeks ago but always forgot to post it :) but here it is. Personally, I like drifting, not as much as racing, but I do like it. So, I thought of an idea which could be implemented in LFS. Now, the logic behind it is fairly simple. I was thinking that if a drift point system like in NFS UG and UG2 would be really cool. You'd have an angle meter, and your speed, and then with a clever calculating system, base how much points you can get in the one drift. Example, lets use the 2nd corner at WE, now, the usual speed around that corner in an XRT would be around 140 KM/H, so lets say you drift at that speed at an angle of 30 deg. which could be the same as drifting the car at 60 deg. but at a speed of 70. I know it seems very messy but I admit, I am having a hard time explaining this but I think you got the idea.

[Tweaker]

As much as I like some ideas like this, they are creative... I don't think LFS needs a 'points system' for drifters. Rather, this could really be an addon done with InSim or something, I don't know. Maybe a mod... something, but LFS itself doesn't have a huge focus on drifting... and doesn't cater towards it.

[bobvanvliet]

Well, LFS does cater to drifting, simply because it is a realistic sim.

I do agree though that this would be better implemented as an InSim mod in stead of included in the official game release. It is, after all, a "racing simulator". :tilt:

[Leprekaun]

a mod would be good as well :) but whats InSim? I've heard about it a lot and heard it can add some cool things to LFS. Can you give me a link to where I can get it and instructions of how to use it?, Glad you liked my ideas by the way :).

[Tweaker]

What I mean by cater is... LFS doesn't give any special needs to drifters. When will there be a downhill road course, more max steering lock, longer lasting tires/drift tires... I mean come on, and now you think we will have a Drift points system???? :zombie:

Which is why I suggest this be a mod, as a lot of the serious sim racing fans would look at LFS as a drifting game rather than a true racing game.

[Matrixi]

I think we don't really need a point counter like that, it would never be as good as a living, breathing real person as a judge. There is much more to a drift than just the speed and the angle during a drift. A good drift should be judged by entry speed, complete line, angle, speed during the drift and speed at the exit.

[nikimere]

I think we don't really need a point counter like that, it would never be as good as a living, breathing real person as a judge. There is much more to a drift than just the speed and the angle during a drift. A good drift should be judged by entry speed, complete line, angle, speed during the drift and speed at the exit.
agreed. :thumbsup:

[bobvanvliet]

And there are actual LFS contests organised that are judged this way. So I suggest you take a look at those, Leprekaun. (they'll probably be at lfstorque)

[Primoz]

FORGET IT! Didn't even read the thread, the title says it all. This is not NFSU. Don't misunderstand me. My primary activity in LFS is driftnig but do you think young kids on the real road see the number of points they collected on the windshield! Well ofcourse not. Just drift.

[Leprekaun]

Take it easy Primo! just an idea hence the lightbulb :)

[Fonnybone]

I've tried to make an app that does just this a while back using OutSim
but i also have kinda given up since it would give more 'points' for wiping
out than for clean drifts. It not impossible though.

[StanleyCarter]

I've tried to make an app that does just this a while back using OutSim
but i also have kinda given up since it would give more 'points' for wiping
out than for clean drifts. It not impossible though.

interesting, what if the car doesn't wipe out in his entire run? in this case, how does the program react regarding to the drifting performance, is it any good (without wiping out)?

[MadCatX]

Here can be used the same system that is used in Hotlapping - leave the road = no points for drift. Drift angle greater than 75 degrees = it is not a drift anymore. Drift speed less than 50 km/h(approx 35mph) = again, no drift....

Im not a drifter, I just said an idea...:)

[Moonclaw]

What about South City hairpin and 4wd car, proper setup can gain you nice Gigi Galli style entry.

[v4forlife]

personally, i would think that just the ability to ahve a drift meter(like the racelogics drift box) which features a digital-esque display with angle, speed and maximum angle saved. another thing that could be incorperated is to have a program that sences the start of a drift, and records the entry speed, average angle, max angle, average speed, and exit speed. dont know how easy this would be in implement, and i think it would have to be made seperate to lfs(as a tweak or stat tracker type)
just an idea. for competition and practice. so def not a points system, as i dont like that idea, too arcade.

[Noccy]

If u want a driftcompetition, why not do it right?
3 to 5 respected(as in decent drifters) and unbiased judges spectate while each driver drifts 2? laps(alone on the track) and award points afterwards.

Would be more realistic, more fun, and u wont have to rely on software which can always be exploited or has inevitable bugs

+ it allows the devs to code stuff that 95% of the drivers will use..like cars or tracks ,etc. Instead of spending time on a feature that not even 5% of the userbase will use.

or would organizing something like this ask too much from the mature and professional drift teams? :schwitz::razz:

[v4forlife]

ahh, but to do it right(at least now) you must have a driftbox fitted to your car, with a radio transmitter fitted to that to beam the info direct to a screen infront of the judges...at least in the lowely levels of D1.

and like i said, why not get some of the very talented people her in the lfs community to stretch their coding wings and devise a system to mesure the things i mentioned in my other post.

[Primoz]

v4life you must? No need to. Drift competitions are mostzly judged from replays and have been going smoothly for a while. With no driftboxes. That's just a 'gadget' to throw money away for. Useless.

[v4forlife]

as far as i was aware, in quite a few proffesional comps they are saying that you must have this installed. it puts a stop to whining etc. i also heard about it in a jap car mag here in the uk.....ill go see if i can find anything evedent on the net.

[bubbles]

What I mean by cater is... LFS doesn't give any special needs to drifters. When will there be a downhill road course, more max steering lock, longer lasting tires/drift tires... I mean come on, and now you think we will have a Drift points system???? :zombie:

Which is why I suggest this be a mod, as a lot of the serious sim racing fans would look at LFS as a drifting game rather than a true racing game.


LFS should be Sim for the Automotive fan club, that means everything from rallying a pug206 in the snow or racing a really tight wet track downhill a mountain. The omega version should have every type of automotive sport even if the game ends up costing triple the price. Dont forget drifting isn't an old sport, and its entertaining. F1 F3 Group A Group B Grounp C Rally GT500/300 Bathurst Drag racing Le mans 24h ETC.

[spankmeyer]

www.liveforspeed.net (http://www.liveforspeed.net) and take a look top left: "Online Racing Simulator"

Just because things like drifting is possible, thanks to LFS physics, it isn't the focus point of the program. I like paraller parking and once again, thanks to LFS physics, it's possible to do that quite nicely - but I don't have a need to get attention by making a thread to improvement suggestions for a clever "Rate My Paraller Parking-o-meter" simply because it ain't happening.

Peace! :)

[bubbles]

www.liveforspeed.net (http://www.liveforspeed.net) and take a look top left: "Online Racing Simulator"

Just because things like drifting is possible, thanks to LFS physics, it isn't the focus point of the program. I like paraller parking and once again, thanks to LFS physics, it's possible to do that quite nicely - but I don't have a need to get attention by making a thread to improvement suggestions for a clever "Rate My Paraller Parking-o-meter" simply because it ain't happening.

Peace! :)

So you think drifting is just entertainment, well your wrong, but hey even if you don't like the idea, by doing so you would be reaching a wider audience.

With this accurated physics engine the game is running by then you will be eating square soft "gran turismo" series for breakfast.
But it's up to your ignorance and arrogance, I see this, it's a shame narrow minded people don't.

[Hankstar]

That's a bit rough bubble, I don't think he was being offensive :shrug: And as a demo racer you won't have had the experience of seriously playing LFS S2 enough (online and offline) to get a feel for the game and get a real idea of what it's creators are trying to do here. To me, a demo racer rolling in and telling everyone what LFS should be, without knowing enough about the game to have an informed opinion, as well as slamming others' opinions, is ignorant arrogant.

LFS already reaches a wide audience because of its dedication to realistic driving. Because of the way it plays, it attracts all sorts of drivers - mostly racers ("grippers"). That's who the game is aimed at - people who want a realistic driving experience with a focus on online competition. The devs aren't going to cater to a minority group to just sell games, be they drifters, draggers, ricers or caravan owners. The realistic physics allows people to drift, drag, do big doughnuts etc but the focus (I think) will always be on racing.

As to your previous post about including every conceivable form of motorsport - while that would be nice, realistically that's another thing we'll probably never see in LFS (unless a modkit comes out after S3). 3 guys are developing this game, it's not like they have the huge financial and human resources of, for example, EA Games, that would be needed to model, test and license all the forms of motorsport you mentioned. I don't think the devs want LFS to cost three times as much as it does now and I, as just one LFS fan, don't want it too either. rFactor is moddable to an extreme degree, sounds like you'd like that more than LFS...

[bubbles]

That's a bit rough bubble, I don't think he was being offensive :shrug: And as a demo racer you won't have had the experience of seriously playing LFS S2 enough (online and offline) to get a feel for the game and get a real idea of what it's creators are trying to do here. To me, a demo racer rolling in and telling everyone what LFS should be, without knowing enough about the game to have an informed opinion, as well as slamming others' opinions, is ignorant arrogant.

LFS already reaches a wide audience because of its dedication to realistic driving. Because of the way it plays, it attracts all sorts of drivers - mostly racers ("grippers"). That's who the game is aimed at - people who want a realistic driving experience with a focus on online competition. The devs aren't going to cater to a minority group to just sell games, be they drifters, draggers, ricers or caravan owners. The realistic physics allows people to drift, drag, do big doughnuts etc but the focus (I think) will always be on racing.

As to your previous post about including every conceivable form of motorsport - while that would be nice, realistically that's another thing we'll probably never see in LFS (unless a modkit comes out after S3). 3 guys are developing this game, it's not like they have the huge financial and human resources of, for example, EA Games, that would be needed to model, test and license all the forms of motorsport you mentioned. I don't think the devs want LFS to cost three times as much as it does now and I, as just one LFS fan, don't want it too either. rFactor is moddable to an extreme degree, sounds like you'd like that more than LFS...

Bottom to top
I don’t no if this has been suggested but if they incorporate the company (don’t no how it works in their country) they can issue shares, by doing that there company can grow financial. Just an idea.

Ruff? How can you compare drifting to parking a car?? Sure drifting is based on judging rather than getting the right lap time, however the creators have to be aware that (I'm not trying to say that they should include a drift system has soon has possible) just keep it in mind at least. Its just the people that say, "Oh, drifting is stupid" sorry but that’s arrogance and ignorance. Why? Because the more types of motor sports you include the bigger the LSF community, the more funds they have on improve their game, it's as simple as that. Like I don’t like drag racing, but it’s in the game GOOD!!

You have categorized me as a demo player and that I should have no say. Think again, it's the demo players you have to convince to buy the game if you want to make this game better. In that case if you don’t think it’s the case go back to your cave. GT4 has achieved that, but this game is for kids, realism isn't there.

But I would like to congratulate the developers, the physics are there!! This game is as real as it gets:tilt: Yous guys did a fantastic job.
Please take what I said litely, Im not trying to offend nobody.

[RMachucaA]

Im sorry, but LFS is dedicated to motorsports not hobbies or exhibitions or shows. Hence, personally, i'd rather see them concentrate on features that are directly related to the actual content it is trying to embrace.... real racing.

Once S3 is released we might get a devkit, then you can mod and drift to your hearts content.

That i dont support drifting doesnt mean it shouldt be there, all im saying is that i prefeer if they stick to what they want to do.

[Hankstar]

@bubbles: I didn't categorise you as a demo player as some kind of insult - you are a demo player. No right or wrong, good or bad, it's the truth. It's also written under your username :)

Anyway, a demo's just meant to be a taste of the game and doesn't totally reflect the full version - especially since there's been a patch since S2 was released. What I meant was that if you had LFS S2 and played it extensively (and maybe hung around here a bit) you'd have more of an idea what LFS was really like and might modify your point of view. I wasn't implying that you don't deserve a say, just that you should try and get as much info as you can before making suggestions about a game you don't actually own yet..

As for your incorporation suggestion, rest assured you aren't the first to hand out free business advice to the developers.

[bubbles]

@bubbles: I didn't categorise you as a demo player as some kind of insult - you are a demo player. No right or wrong, good or bad, it's the truth. It's also written under your username :)

Anyway, a demo's just meant to be a taste of the game and doesn't totally reflect the full version - especially since there's been a patch since S2 was released. What I meant was that if you had LFS S2 and played it extensively (and maybe hung around here a bit) you'd have more of an idea what LFS was really like and might modify your point of view. I wasn't implying that you don't deserve a say, just that you should try and get as much info as you can before making suggestions about a game you don't actually own yet..

As for your incorporation suggestion, rest assured you aren't the first to hand out free business advice to the developers.

"To me, a demo racer rolling in and telling everyone what LFS should be, without knowing enough about the game to have an informed opinion, as well as slamming others' opinions, is ignorant arrogant."
Sure I'm not, I never said circuit racing sux, and Im not slamming others opinions, I'll just leave it has that.

Ps. I'm saving up for more ram and video card, then I might buy the s2 licence, in anycase don't think Ill my views will change. There's a game in japan that has sold allot. http://www.yukes.co.jp/d1-game/img/top_pro_simg.jpg

But I'll leave this up to the developers, it's their game.

[spankmeyer]

"To me, a demo racer rolling in and telling everyone what LFS should be, without knowing enough about the game to have an informed opinion, as well as slamming others' opinions, is ignorant arrogant."
Sure I'm not, I never said circuit racing sux, and Im not slamming others opinions, I'll just leave it has that.

Ps. I'm saving up for more ram and video card, then I might buy the s2 licence, in anycase don't think Ill my views will change. There's a game in japan that has sold allot. http://www.yukes.co.jp/d1-game/img/top_pro_simg.jpg

But I'll leave this up to the developers, it's their game.
No need for a martyr mode, kiddo.

Please... you drifters must realize that even if drifting is possible to recreate in LFS, it is not what LFS was designed to simulate. Thus, actual support (point system, blingbling etc.) to enhance such action is pretty unlikely to come in the future.
And no, I seriously doubt it is realistic to think LFS as basis of an be-all-end-all motorsport simulator consisting every type of imaginable activity based on cars.

EDIT: Just because one can sing songs via VOIP mode in Battlefield 2, does it mean EA/Dice should incorporate some kind of fancy Singstar point system in BF2? Seriously... come on!

Peace! :)

[bubbles]

No need for a martyr mode, kiddo.

Please... you drifters must realize that even if drifting is possible to recreate in LFS, it is not what LFS was designed to simulate. Thus, actual support (point system, blingbling etc.) to enhance such action is pretty unlikely to come in the future.
And no, I seriously doubt it is realistic to think LFS as basis of an be-all-end-all motorsport simulator consisting every type of imaginable activity based on cars.

EDIT: Just because one can sing songs via VOIP mode in Battlefield 2, does it mean EA/Dice should incorporate some kind of fancy Singstar point system in BF2? Seriously... come on!

Peace! :)
"No need for a martyr mode, kiddo"
I'm not a kid, 24 and competed in most drift championships in New Zealand, I have done a lot of circuit racing with a s13 and r32 gtr, thats what I mean by ignorance, just no idea.

"Thus, actual support (point system, blingbling etc.) to enhance such action is pretty unlikely to come in the future."
Blingbling what tha...

"Just because one can sing songs via VOIP mode in Battlefield 2, does it mean EA/Dice should incorporate some kind of fancy Singstar point system in BF2? Seriously... come on!"
Once again ignorance with a touch of arrogance, there's more to it then just oversteering. Stop offending my intellegence. Besides it's just a suggestion.

Peace :)

[spankmeyer]

...there's more to it then just oversteering. Stop offending my intellegence. Besides it's just a suggestion.
I never said drifting doesn't require skill, you are putting words in my mouth. I can see you are very passionate about drifting and that's totally cool with me.
I enjoy hardcore simulators and close racing, but I have no urge to give business ideas for Need for Speed dev team, if you catch my... ahem... drift. :smileypul

[filur]

"Just because one can sing songs via VOIP mode in Battlefield 2, does it mean EA/Dice should incorporate some kind of fancy Singstar point system in BF2? Seriously... come on!"
Once again ignorance with a touch of arrogance.

It's actually a valid point, it's very good for a project to be extremely focused, and catering for every subgroup of users isn't a very good idea, especially for a 3-man team.

[bubbles]

It's actually a valid point, it's very good for a project to be extremely focused, and catering for every subgroup of users isn't a very good idea, especially for a 3-man team.

I see it like this, your band and you only play Rock, you make a lot of money but it's not enought so you take it the next step, you buy a studio and start contrating bands and selling theirs album's, but you figure that "hey, the business has grown but our fans are the same, maybe we should expand and sell other types of music to weight out the cost of the company. So they start selling Dance hip hop death etc, their company gets bigger and shareholders see an interest in the company and invest. You pay a team of marketers, editors, etc while your racing your very own Mclaren F1 down the track.
It doesn't have to be a 3-team man if you think outside the square, trust me my dad's a financial anylist.

[Psycho Evangelion]

So you think drifting is just entertainment, well your wrong, but hey even if you don't like the idea, by doing so you would be reaching a wider audience.

With this accurated physics engine the game is running by then you will be eating square soft "gran turismo" series for breakfast.
But it's up to your ignorance and arrogance, I see this, it's a shame narrow minded people don't.

what the heck? Gran Turismo was developed by polyphony. Squaresoft develops games like...FINAL FANTASY.

[bubbles]

what the heck? Gran Turismo was developed by polyphony. Squaresoft develops games like...FINAL FANTASY.

Ooops.

[Hankstar]

I see it like this, your band and you only play Rock, you make a lot of money but it's not enought so you take it the next step, you buy a studio and start contrating bands and selling theirs album's, but you figure that "hey, the business has grown but our fans are the same, maybe we should expand and sell other types of music to weight out the cost of the company. So they start selling Dance hip hop death etc, their company gets bigger and shareholders see an interest in the company and invest. You pay a team of marketers, editors, etc while your racing your very own Mclaren F1 down the track.
It doesn't have to be a 3-team man if you think outside the square, trust me my dad's a financial anylist.

He may be, but you're not. My dad's a (retired) high school teacher, yet I left high school early to play music and play video games for a coupla years before I started working. Trust me, occupational skills don't rub off :D

And having been in bands since 1992, I can honestly say that if you'd ever been a band yourself you wouldn't see it so simplistically. Noone I've ever encountered in the biz has wanted to turn their band into Sony Music...
Just think about the Foo Fighters (as an example off the top of my head): they only play rock. They've played straight-up rock music since 1994. They haven't opened a studio or started a label and started selling every other kind of music under the sun. Yet they're one of the biggest bands on the planet - and in 4 (5?) albums they still haven't diversified into other genres. Four very successful musicians with as much control as they want over their product, legions of fans and buckets and buckets of money.

I'm not psychic but I think the devs have a business plan (which seems to work pretty well btw) and I'm sure if they wanted financial advice they wouldn't consult someone whose dad is a financial analyst, or trawl the forums looking for random advice from anonymous screen names - and especially not from people who haven't even bought their product and have a decent understanding of it! Not everyone wants to turn their business into a massive corporate colossus. Have you considered that the developers may love being in a 3-man team? To me, that is thinking outside the corporate square. I can't think of another game/sim built by such a small team that's as successful as LFS. IMHO, going down the road of hiring a shipload of people to do everything for you while you rake in the dough is about as traditional and "in the square" as you can get. With 3 people, all the control is in their hands and the final say on everything belongs to them. With 300 employees and a bunch of shareholders, they'd always have to compromise something, meet some deadline, meet some sales/profit target and other such corporate bullsh1t. They'd turn into EA games ffs.

Besides, if the devs hired more people, it'd just be more people to share their profits with :tilt:

[bubbles]

He may be, but you're not. My dad's a (retired) high school teacher, yet I left high school early to play music and play video games for a coupla years before I started working. Trust me, occupational skills don't rub off :D

And having been in bands since 1992, I can honestly say that if you'd ever been a band yourself you wouldn't see it so simplistically. Noone I've ever encountered in the biz has wanted to turn their band into Sony Music...
Just think about the Foo Fighters (as an example off the top of my head): they only play rock. They've played straight-up rock music since 1994. They haven't opened a studio or started a label and started selling every other kind of music under the sun. Yet they're one of the biggest bands on the planet - and in 4 (5?) albums they still haven't diversified into other genres. Four very successful musicians with as much control as they want over their product, legions of fans and buckets and buckets of money.

I'm not psychic but I think the devs have a business plan (which seems to work pretty well btw) and I'm sure if they wanted financial advice they wouldn't consult someone whose dad is a financial analyst, or trawl the forums looking for random advice from anonymous screen names - and especially not from people who haven't even bought their product and have a decent understanding of it! Not everyone wants to turn their business into a massive corporate colossus. Have you considered that the developers may love being in a 3-man team? To me, that is thinking outside the corporate square. I can't think of another game/sim built by such a small team that's as successful as LFS. IMHO, going down the road of hiring a shipload of people to do everything for you while you rake in the dough is about as traditional and "in the square" as you can get. With 3 people, all the control is in their hands and the final say on everything belongs to them. With 300 employees and a bunch of shareholders, they'd always have to compromise something, meet some deadline, meet some sales/profit target and other such corporate bullsh1t. They'd turn into EA games ffs.



Besides, if the devs hired more people, it'd just be more people to share their profits with :tilt:

You mist my entire point LOL

[Hankstar]

And the point I missed is ... ?

[bubbles]

Read between the lines stupid.

[Hankstar]

Grow up FFS. This is how you respond in what could've been an intelligent debate? LOL, calling me stupid - while you mis-spell just about every second word and can barely make a sentence...

If you could articulate your point like a grownup, maybe I wouldn't need clarification.

Sorry about the big words.

edit: I'm not waiting for a response. I'm leaving this thread to the pages of history, so whatever you want to say, go for your life.
But don't forget to proofread it before you post.

[bubbles]

Grow up FFS. This is how you respond in what could've been an intelligent debate? LOL, calling me stupid - while you mis-spell just about every second word and can barely make a sentence...

If you could articulate your point like a grownup, maybe I wouldn't need clarification.

Sorry about the big words.

edit: I'm not waiting for a response. I'm leaving this thread to the pages of history, so whatever you want to say, go for your life.
But don't forget to proofread it before you post.

LOL

[Hankstar]

Is that all you got? LOL

Really leaving this time...over it *sigh*

[bubbles]

Liar liar pants on fire. :razz:

[RMachucaA]

i think bubbles is cranky cause no one has changed his dirty diapers....

Wheres your mommy? can we help you get her? abooo booo... oh such a cute baby, so outspoken for his age too!

[spankmeyer]

Anyone seen a padlock around here somewhere? Last time I saw Victor was hanging out with it, maybe we should PM him about this thread. :scratchch

[filur]

I see it like this, your band and you only play Rock, you make a lot of money but it's not enought so you take it the next step, you buy a studio and start contrating bands and selling theirs album's, but you figure that "hey, the business has grown but our fans are the same, maybe we should expand and sell other types of music to weight out the cost of the company. So they start selling Dance hip hop death etc, their company gets bigger and shareholders see an interest in the company and invest. You pay a team of marketers, editors, etc while your racing your very own Mclaren F1 down the track.
It doesn't have to be a 3-team man if you think outside the square, trust me my dad's a financial anylist.

In other words, turning your indie company into sony, getting rid of anything special about your way of doing things, and going for the marketers, the editors and the bank account.

[bubbles]

I know what you are but what am I? :trampolin

[bubbles]

i think bubbles is cranky cause no one has changed his dirty diapers....

Wheres your mommy? can we help you get her? abooo booo... oh such a cute baby, so outspoken for his age too!

Canadians are so weird. Baby's don't talk dopy.

[bubbles]

I’m sure you know there is a bit more to it:
Angle and speed and also the line you use to drift.
The chaser has to mimic or be faster than the chased, but losses points if the chaser overtakes him (unfair power disadvantage:razz: ) unless the chased has an accident and spins out. The chaser losses points if he crashes against the opponent
Other things to note: In most Option vid the Judges listen when they drop the revs too much during mid drift and loss points.
Big points on how you initiate the first Judge corner and link all the corners with drifting. Judges don’t care which technique you use as long as it looks good.

[NaBUru38]

The forces option could be improved. A second option would show the car direction vs. car instant speed (and therefore show the sliding angle). Then the two transversal and longitudinal forces, ...

[Hiwer]

So, if ur new drift system comes out, LFS takes one step back to arcade game. IRL u don't see any angle meters or any points.