Soft Poll - What's your favorite drivers view when racing?

[cvearl]

Bumper? Cockpit? Chase? and so on...

When I say bumper I mean the view where all you see are your front wheels. ie; custome wheel views and so on.

How do you edit a poll to add an option? Ahh darn. You get the idea.

C.

[Kajojek(PL)]

No other view than cockpit.:thumb:

[tristancliffe]

Gotta be cockpit. Anything else just isn't a sim, and the framerate hit is so tiny that I think it's a naff excuse unless you have a Pentium II

[Hankstar]

^^^
Chase view is for NFS/GTA/GT, i.e. non-sim racing games ...

[B2B@300]

View I use is custom wheel view - which is not a bumper view but more an incar view without the car being drawn (think a number of people use this view so would be good to add to the poll)

[Infiniti]

Well hard to explain, I picked the in cockpit view cause technically it is inside :thumb: But just so you guys can get an idea.. here ya go see attached :scratchch

[Tweaker]

None of the above? :)

I use a custom view. Basically it is a like the wheels view, but with the car drawn, and the camera is put as high as it can go vertically (Z offset view)... so basically I see the front of the car or hood/bonnet and am always sitting in the middle.

Might feel or look wierd at first, but it made me more consistent, as I can see the corners alot sooner/clearer than most of you :D

Plus by doing this, I get a much better arrangement of the data views and gauges, can sit on either side of the car because my view is really always centered, and don't have to use the stupid sidea mirrors. Some people do this by using the wheels view, but I always found that it was too low and the wheels blocked my vision... so I made this view, and it has worked out ever since :)

EDIT: Oh and Tristan, I find the cockpit view to be the most framerate hit compared to any other view!! Notice the FPS I have on my shots below... and that is with a crap laptop :)

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

edit: @Tweak SO THAT'S YOUR SECRET!

I drive cockpit view, sometimes with the forces on instead of the cockpit! Try it, it's cool. (Hit F in cockpit view)

I'm still waiting for the sweet suspension graphics to be integrated, a la Viper Racing but much better. Along with those glowing rotors :scratchch:

[Shotglass]

Gotta be cockpit. Anything else just isn't a sim, and the framerate hit is so tiny that I think it's a naff excuse unless you have a Pentium II

the framerate hit is in the 20-30 fps range ... so its a lot on any pc

cockpit

[axus]

I use the wheels view - my excuse is that I have a 17" CRT and I don't want half my screen being taken up by interior bits that just sit there. If I had a bigger screen (remember the 17" CRT's have a viewing spcae of about 14") I would probably go for cockpit.

[SchneeFee]

wheel view.

i always wonder why most ppl use the cockpit view instead. It reduces the "useable" FOV to a 10cm strip. When using wheelview your FOV is about what u ll have in a real car.
Monitor is small enough, no need to waste it with the static cockpit.:)

[danowat]

It has to be Cockpit, when driving a real car thats what you see, so using anything else isnt really very realistic.

Dan,

[MagicFr]

Well hard to explain, I picked the in cockpit view cause technically it is inside :thumb: But just so you guys can get an idea.. here ya go see attached :scratchch

Got exactly the same view :) This is so much realistic.
Just experience yourself in a real car, you cant see road AND revmeter at the same time without moving your eyes.
Also, when drivin i dont want to see useless stuff in my view sight like steering wheel ( i already see the one i have in my hands ), etc.

cheers,

[Tweaker]

It has to be Cockpit, when driving a real car thats what you see, so using anything else isnt really very realistic.

Dan,

Well, actually when you are driving a car, a lot of the dash and lower parts are just not in your peripheral vision... or at least, you shouldn't be sitting back far enough that you can focus on that. Normally when you race, those things are completely out of your view and you are looking at the track. I'd say that the view Infiniti posted above is more like what you would experience... but maybe a bit higher FOV. About the only thing that should be in your view in a proper seating position and eye level is the A-Pillar, top of dash, and your side & middle mirrors. Also think about if you were wearing a helmet.

[danowat]

Well, I beg to differ, when I am driving a real car, the clocks and steering wheel ARE in periheral vision, and I only have to flick my eyes down to view them

The same is true in LFS, the clocks and steering wheel are in periheral vision, and I only have to flick my eyes to see the clocks and wheel.

How anyone can say any view OTHER than the cockpit view is more realistic is beyond my comprehention.

Dan,

[Fetzo]

Well hard to explain, I picked the in cockpit view cause technically it is inside :thumb: But just so you guys can get an idea.. here ya go see attached :scratchch

thats exactly the view i use. i also picked the cockpit option. :)

and its more realistic than the standard cockpit view.

[Matrixi]

I use cockpit view with about 85 FOV. Wouldn't change it to anything else :)

[AndroidXP]

I'm using cockpit view with 68° FOV. Personally, I can't stand a high FOV, it makes me motion sick.

Well hard to explain, I picked the in cockpit view cause technically it is inside. But just so you guys can get an idea.. here ya go see attachedI used to race like that but it's not exactly realistic. To make it realistic you'd need to use the standard cockpit view with a very low FOV, like 30° or something. If you move the camera position forward like you do, it's like you're driving with your chin on the steering wheel and I hope you don't do that IRL ;). On the first glance it might look quite close to RL, but if you think about it for a while, it becomes apparant that you have way too high FOV for that position.

It makes driving much easier though, and it's still far more realistic than any wheels or nothing-at-all view.

[kamo2000]

standard cockpit view

[Fetzo]

I'm using cockpit view with 68° FOV. Personally, I can't stand a high FOV, it makes me motion sick.

I used to race like that but it's not exactly realistic. To make it realistic you'd need to use the standard cockpit view with a very low FOV, like 30° or something. If you move the camera position forward like you do, it's like you're driving with your chin on the steering wheel and I hope you don't do that IRL ;). On the first glance it might look quite close to RL, but if you think about it for a while, it becomes apparant that you have way too high FOV for that position.

It makes driving much easier though, and it's still far more realistic than any wheels or nothing-at-all view.

none of the views is exactly realistic with a standard monitor :D, the standard cockpit view neither. well i don't know how far away your monitor is, but for a 68° view it must be pretty close to your eyes :).

[danowat]

Nothing will EVER be totally realistic, it is a game after all, but the cockpit view is a more realistic representation of what you see in a real car.

Dan,

[Greboth]

I just use the normal in car cokpit view. Never tried any other view. Might try a custom view when i get home later though.

[AndroidXP]

none of the views is exactly realistic with a standard monitor :D, the standard cockpit view neither. well i don't know how far away your monitor is, but for a 68° view it must be pretty close to your eyes :).Pardon? I said the only realistic view is one from the cockpit with very low FOV. I did not say that my view was any more realistic than his :confused:

[Nobo]

I allways drive with the chase view! What i really need is a mirror!!!!!!!

And dont say thats unrealistic, its unrealistic, too, that you have a minimap and all that stuff! As long as you can drive with the views its ok! ....My advantage is that i have a better overview....and i allways see whats next to my car....for example, at the weekend we had an event, a cocpit view driver turned into me in one of the corners of SO Long, because he hasnt seen me next to him....cant happen to me :) ....
but as i said, a mirror must definately implented into the chase view! I know a lot of chase view drivers who really need that, too!

ALDI

[Hyperactive]

Cockpit!

[mr_x]

cockpit for me, but i might try some custom views see if they improve my laptimes :)

[Gener_AL (UK)]

back seat driver veiw :p

http://demoncomputers.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/stuff/veiwpoint.JPG

but 9/10 im usually in cockpit veiw

[sinbad]

I think any view can be considered "realistic" as long as the camera is located exactly where the driver's head should be. Also it should only be possible to make parts of the car that would be seen IRL invisible, and not make parts of the car that couldn't be seen IRL (like the wheels) visible.

I use cockpit view with a fairly low FOV.

[three_jump]

cockpit :)

but I've also seen some really strange view settings... like the "120° frog wheels view" fordman was using when I visited him....

[IIIFireIII]

I always use cockpit view. :eclipsee_

[spankmeyer]

Where's the option for track-side cameras? :D

Chase view is only useful if you are having trouble with being aware of your surroundings. But in the end, the ability to race close in pack is down to how much racing experience you have.

[mrodgers]

Cockpit view with FOV of 60. The best I have come up with. Viewed on the screen I see just a bit of the a-pillar and the gauges are just on the bottom of my screen. My monitor is set just behind my wheel and the wheel (my Momo, driver and wheel turned off in game) just covers up the lower half of the gauges. ie, I can't see the gear selection in the GTi. The only time I change is in the MRT where I increase back to default 90 FOV.

[Fetzo]

Pardon? I said the only realistic view is one from the cockpit with very low FOV. I did not say that my view was any more realistic than his :confused:

well that would be realistic if the drivers are wearing blinders :). as i said, there is no realistic view with a standard monitor-setup. everything is a compromise.

[AndroidXP]

:doh: Well yes of course you'd need a rounded monitor wrapped around you to be more realistic. I was talking in terms of correct proportions as if you were viewing through a window the size of your monitor in your car.

:)

[Gunn]

Cockpit will always be the only option for me. If a driving game doesn't have cockpit view I usually don't buy it.


p.s. I added an extra option to the poll called "other".

[Tweaker]

p.s. I added an extra option to the poll called "other".
Thank you, finally I added my vote :)

As for cockpit view.... yeah I'd use it, but I guess I am waiting for Eric to have some updated cockpits... then I would have a reason to make myself feel immersed :).

[Gunn]

**Changed it to "custom" so it is more informative to those who are unaware that a custom option exists.

[Batterypark]

Custom, just above the dashboard (sort of a hood cam). Cockpit in the single seaters though.

[Richard Torp]

Cockpit will always be the only option for me. If a driving game doesn't have cockpit view I usually don't buy it.
[/I]

The same here...:)

[noemfie]

I use a custom cockpit view , when I started playing LFS some years ago I used the wheel view , but soon realised there is only one view that feels real and that is cockpit

[Crazy Harry]

I allways drive with the chase view! What i really need is a mirror!!!!!!!


Same here :thumb:

[Priitmek]

I always use cockpit, but accidentally hit chase.:x

[Vain]

Always cockpit. Though I sometimes switch to chase view when I clipped into an object and fly around. Then chase view is better because you can see where you are flying at. :)

Vain

[Blackout]

Any view outside the car is just arcade, so driver (cockpit) view for me.

[GianniC]

Chase, always drove racing games with chase view. Like that I've the best global view and a more secure feeling to go on to the edge's of the track and where exactly my car steers. Perhaps it will change the day I go sit behind a (real car) wheel.. Dno, but anyway, voted chase :)

[bo-kristiansen]

chase view :hidesbehi

..and like Nobo said, - we chase viewers dont have any blind spots
and we are often very surprised to see someone slamming into the side of
our cars because cockpit viewers cant see us when racing side by side.
-and mostly we get the blame but we KNOW we didnt do it....
...because we can see EVERYTHING. :razz:

...except whats going on behind us. -but often I use the sound to
hear if the car behind me goes left or right of me.
-so its not really a problem.
- wish we had virtual mirror in chase view. :scratchch

[Vain]

*starts a senseless flamewar on bo-kritiansen for talking bad about the cockpit view and it's all because you can't drive properly and anyway*

( :) )

Vain

[bo-kristiansen]

*starts a senseless flamewar on bo-kritiansen for talking bad about the cockpit view and it's all because you can't drive properly and anyway*

( :) )

Vain




:leb:

[mrodgers]

chase view :hidesbehi

..and like Nobo said, - we chase viewers dont have any blind spots
and we are often very surprised to see someone slamming into the side of
our cars because cockpit viewers cant see us when racing side by side.
-and mostly we get the blame but we KNOW we didnt do it....
...because we can see EVERYTHING. :razz:
I guarantee I won't slam into the side of you because I can't see you. I think I drive more looking left/right anymore than I do looking ahead.

When I'm beside you, I know it and do everything I can to give you a lane on the exit. Same if you get beside me and need room at the apex :D. Only time I won't is because of an error in my part, or because the car is sliding out.

[smack]

chase view voted :thumb:,
well i started out this game with ks and chase was the only view i could control the car with. but now am used to it, so even tho i have a wheel now, i still use chase.

would be good to have a virtual mirror tho

[Hyperactive]

This raises an interesting point actually: When I look at a guy driving alongside me, it's always reassuring when I catch glimpses of the driver turning his head to look back at me.
...

Somebody said in some other thread before that when you see somebody "glance you back" it becomes a game of chicken :D

[Pellit]

cockpit.

normally i like to veiw a car chase-view, but i found i couldn't control it, cockpit i can so....

[cvearl]

**Changed it to "custom" so it is more informative to those who are unaware that a custom option exists.

Thanks Gunn. Makes this poll more accurate!

Wow I did not expect this much feedback. As a new (soon to be licensed) LFS driver, I have gotten alot of REALLY good feedback here.

When it comes to views when driving I need to point something out that I have noticed over the years of driving sims and real life driving.

Driving games that put you into a cockpit where the whole dash/instrument pannel/steeringwheel and roof frame (above you and to your left or right) is visable is not an accurate depiction of what the human BRAIN sees when driving. This is a little hard to explain but think about this. Most STANDARD cockpit views offer a view akin to looking from the back seat if the front seats were removed. Sit in the back seat of a small car. If the seats in front of you were pulled out, there's your "in-game" cockpit view. Not a good way to drive.

One would certainly not drive like that let alone race. Notice I said BRAINS see and not "eyes" see. Pardon a short geek statement here... In the visual "perception" of humans, most of our periferal is white noise as we focus where we need to. Even ZOOM to some degree although our eyes are incapable of doing that. Everything around our FOV funnel in stereo vision is not there as far as our focus is concearned. you cannot make out many details outside of that "cone" of focus.

When driving a real car today. Take note of what you actually see regardless of how much of your real life cockpit is in your periferal. Perception-wise it is alot less than you might think.

What I notice is this. Looking at the road ahead, I see my nuckles on the wheel while not even realising they are there unless I think about it (remember this is my Brains perception of what is in my field dead ahead). I certainly cannot see my gauges unless I look down slightly or most of the rest of the interior. The road in front of me is HUGE from a perception/field of view standpoint.

So IMO it makes sense to move your virtual head forward in the car to simulate that experience. A little dash and top of the wheel and very little other cockpit details within your FOV. Perhaps barely framing your FOV. And just a smidge of hood as you will notice that in most vehicles you do not even see your hood unless you lean forward and try.

But the intruments and mirror are esential of course so they should be turned on to virtual as part of your hud. But I would REALLY like to see a side mirrors option that can enabled where they would then appear in the bottom left and right of the screen and only take up a few inches square as in real driving you do not see your side mirrors unless you turn to look which in Real life is a split second. Can't simulate that on a monitor so they need to be there in the corners all the time. They would not have to be very big.

Just some thoughts.

In the end I REALLY appreciate the fact that some effort went into this games FOV design and it's customization abilities.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

C.

[Zero7]

Interesting theory cvearl and when I started to think about it I could see what you were getting at. Now I drive in cockpit view (67 FOV), but tried experimenting with the view attached, which I think is what your suggesting, someone else posted something similar previously.

The only "problem" with this view is that you do need instruments displayed but to overlay these on top of your view is still unrealistic, IMO, hence the reason most people go for cockpit view with instruments visible.

Still, interesting theory. In the attached view, what you need is the ability to move the drivers head down and left to see the speedo to simulate the glance at the instruments. Something for the future perhaps?

edit: Just thinking a bit more about the moving head comment - I guess that's what TrackIR is for! Still, assigning a keystroke to move the head would be useful.

[Hyperactive]

It was me (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=3277) :D Your reply at the time was very funny :)

Now I'm laughing at my own jokes :D

damn...

[Iron_Maiden]

heres what I see...

I cn be so much more accurate on turn it from this angle....

[BlackEye]

edit: Just thinking a bit more about the moving head comment - I guess that's what TrackIR is for! Still, assigning a keystroke to move the head would be useful.

If i remember right, you can set look functions to mouse, so you can look where ever you want with your mouse and center view with some button.
Dunno is that still an option and as i remember it, it can be little tricky, will try it again when I get home:)

[nfsjunkie91]

I like cockpit view, because it's fun to look at other drivers :P and then watch them watch you! :P I use chase cam when drifting sometimes though.

[Tweaker]

well that would be realistic if the drivers are wearing blinders :). as i said, there is no realistic view with a standard monitor-setup. everything is a compromise.

Exactly. If you go in sit in a car you do see things around you, but it is pretty much a different kind of FOV. It feels like you see 180 degrees left to right and 120 degrees up and down. The thing is, when people say the cockpit view is real in LFS, it is completely different. You are essentially using a view that is 80-90 degrees of FOV, yet you still see other parts of the car.

So if you go and sit in a car, imagine a 90 degree FOV. Actually, make a 4:3 aspect ratio cutout and put it right in front of your face. You will find that it looks exactly like what Infiniti posted. Because at the FOV you have in a real car (which is quite high), you have to imagine you can only see through the box/monitor's point of view. Seeing other things around inside the car on a small monitor wouldn't be correct.

You see what I am saying danowat?

I'd like to make a diagram to explain it, and maybe take some pics inside my car, but FOV of the camera and the game are somewhat different than in real-life. :shrug:

[Infiniti]

:thumb: Heres more of my views, the only in-car views I use are for the open wheelers like mrt, f08 and fox. Here the other classes I see rear bumpers from (and these days alot of em):shrug:

[Goop]

Cockpit with FOV @ 95. It's all I've ever tried, it feels good... so i dunno, I'm pretty comfortable with it. Tho in any sim-type game, I find a chase cam impossible, it's just too detached.

[Hankstar]

I hear ya. Chase view (known as "girl mode" in my house :D - no offence meant, chasers) makes it impossible for me to control the car.

Except in Mario Kart :nod:

[xapexcivicx]

Wheels view. I like my FPS :) (And now I'm just used to it.)

[cvearl]

Interesting theory cvearl and when I started to think about it I could see what you were getting at. Now I drive in cockpit view (67 FOV), but tried experimenting with the view attached, which I think is what your suggesting, someone else posted something similar previously.

The only "problem" with this view is that you do need instruments displayed but to overlay these on top of your view is still unrealistic, IMO, hence the reason most people go for cockpit view with instruments visible.

Still, interesting theory. In the attached view, what you need is the ability to move the drivers head down and left to see the speedo to simulate the glance at the instruments. Something for the future perhaps?

edit: Just thinking a bit more about the moving head comment - I guess that's what TrackIR is for! Still, assigning a keystroke to move the head would be useful.

That view in your screenie is pretty much what I had in mind. :) But with the hud up for intruments and mirrors. While that would be "unrealistic" it would provide the same split second data to the driver that we get in real life being able to glance in a split second. I just find glancing for speedo in a racing sim harder to do than in RL for some reason. LOL so I would likely opt to have the stuff turned on. :)

But you got my point. I just hate some of the defaults in Flight sims and Car sims as it feels like your watching from a web cam that's been placed on the headrest and trying to remote control the car or aircraft. It's not very immersive.

But that screen shot looks very true to percieved focus in RL.

C.

[MagicFr]

edit: Just thinking a bit more about the moving head comment - I guess that's what TrackIR is for! Still, assigning a keystroke to move the head would be useful.

+1 to that :thumb:

Also i'd like an option to disable steering wheel display ! I already see my own logiteck steering wheel and my hands, i dt need virtual ones :)

[danowat]

When you drive a real car you are aware of the whole interior of the car, from the far A-pillar all the way across, you also see most of the interior, including the clocks and steering wheel in peripheral vision, the ONLY way that I can make a driving sim "feel real" is to have the cockpit view.
I may even be quicker in a different view, but that would lose the point of a driving sim to me, I want it to feel as real as I can.

Dan,

[Tweaker]

But the disadvantage of the cockpit view to show all those things you see in a real interior is that you have to have a skewed FOV to make it fit all on the screen. It may show all the insides like you'd normally see, but to have a real visual representation while in a racing game, you need to lower the FOV and have a limited viewing area.... because the monitor is the limit.

Plus having a lower FOV recreates the depth you have with your actual eyes.

There may be things blocked out or restricted from having a low FOV in the cockpit view, but it is as close as you can get to a proper viewpoint.

[danowat]

Maybe its because I am 6ft 4in and have to sit with the seat as far back as it goes in a real car, but if I have a view with a low FOV it feels like my chin is on the dashboard.
I guess it could be different for everyone really, because like IRL everyone sits in a different position in their car, some people like to kiss the windscreen, others like me sit as far back as possible.
So there is probably no such thing as a "one fits all" FOV setting, but I find Cockpit with about 80FOV and a very slight head turn on steering to be as close to RL as possible.

Dan,

[Tweaker]

No this isn't about seating position.

As I said in a few posts before this, think about when you sit in your car and when you are at a position that you see all the parts of the interior (A-pillar, wheel, radio, and partial passenger side). Was hard to describe this, so I found the best picture I could find (not centered in seat (and spare me the accuracy)) and edited it to explain the reasons for why that FOV people use that is 'zoomed' in.

Because the monitor restricts having a life-like FOV. Which is why you see that when people use 3 monitor setups, they use a low FOV on all the screens to 'build' that real FOV you'd actually have

Though... I don't think I'd use this low FOV view some people use, because I cannot see the cars beside me as well somewhat. So you'd have to use a high FOV regardless... but doing so would make it far from being realistic. ;) That is why I wanted to argue against saying 'Cockpit view is best because it is realistic'.

[danowat]

Well, it is about seating position, because the further you have it back the wider your vision cone is, you don't see a view like you have shown unless you have serious tunnel vision and/or your chin is on the dashboard.

I made a point this morning on the journey in to work to conciously view the inside of the car as if it were LFS, and I will still maintain that the cockpit view is still the most realistic view you can have in LFS without a multi-monitor or wrap around setup, maybe when there is a way to record directly from your eye it will be easier to show.

But people can use what view they feel comfortable with, I don't think there is any one right or wrong way TBH, but people who are using LFS without the experiance of driving for real should really stick with the cockpit view, for, IMO, and more realistic representation of driving IRL.

Dan,

[Chaos]

Also i'd like an option to disable steering wheel display ! I already see my own logiteck steering wheel and my hands, i dt need virtual ones :)
I know this can be done! It's somewhere option/view or thereabouts... You can turn off hands and wheel separately... The button reads something like this "Driver ON, Wheel ON".. I have both on off... so the only wheel I see is the one in my hands ;)

[Tweaker]

Aghh you're still not getting the point danowat. You are restricted of having a realistic view because of the monitor, and in a sense, you CAN'T have a full cone of viewing range because of it. That picture I showed is just a representation of what it would be like if you had only a monitor to use to drive a real car from.

EDIT: Because like I said, imagine a 3 monitor setup. The MIDDLE screen (as well as the side screens) has to use a low-FOV... and if you excluded the side screens, you'd get the 'real' view you should have (minus the side vision of course).

But whatever, I really cannot explain it any other way. I know I've read something before on "FOV in games", and how it has to be 'wide angle' to let you see things properly... when in fact if you wanted to have a real vision range, it shouldn't be a wide angle view on your screen. But the wide angle view is there because it only looks proper on the screen.

[danowat]

Yeah, its a trick, its a way to trick your eyes into thinking that this 19" Square LCD monitor is the wide expanse of the interior of a car, and it will always be a trick and a comprimise of trying to view the world through a 19" box.

Niether is truely realistic, but at least with you cockpit view you can fool your eyes and brain in a way that is more realistic, IMO of course :).

I do understand where you are coming from, even if I don't agree that the way you have shown it is more realistic.

Dan,

[nikimere]

i drive from the front wheels, dont think thats the bumper view because the bumper is infront of the wheels so i picked 'custom'.

[MagicFr]

I know this can be done! It's somewhere option/view or thereabouts... You can turn off hands and wheel separately... The button reads something like this "Driver ON, Wheel ON".. I have both on off... so the only wheel I see is the one in my hands ;)

I think you cant do this in "custom ext 2" view :'(

[MagicFr]

Hi danowat,

you know, i already have a cockpit view, the real cockpit i use to play, with steering wheel, gear shifter, etc... so i dt want to have both steering wheel in my pov :)
I checked this again this morning, when i'm looking the road, the dials are NOT in my field of view, also i see only top of the steering wheel, so, in my opinion, the standard LFS cockpit view is not realistic, so i prefered make my own one exactly like Infinity pov.

cheers,

[tristancliffe]

I've always thought that TrackIR would make racing impossible. Right now, the only indication we have of whether the rear of the car is stepping out is the lateral movement of the view on screen. If that view could be changed just by absent-mindedly moving your head... Well, you'd never know what the hell the car was doing.

Thats why I stopped using my TrackIR quite quickly after I bought it - thought it would help, but it just made being quick so much harder, and no more rewarding.

[dEiCidE]

cockpit view, is the more realistic view, i think.

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

Aghh you're still not getting the point danowat. You are restricted of having a realistic view because of the monitor, and in a sense, you CAN'T have a full cone of viewing range because of it. That picture I showed is just a representation of what it would be like if you had only a monitor to use to drive a real car from.


Your point is this I think:

If you want an accurate FOV (as in "true to life") in LFS, you need to measure the angle of two lines extending from the bridge of your nose to the edges of your viewing area. If you set LFS's FOV to that angle, you would see what you would see IRL through the monitor, excluding your peripheral vision.

[bbman]

Cockpit view, with an FOV of about 100°, I think... The instruments are a lot more compact than in custom view (why do I need to know how much I steer? I know where I'm going...) and it's about the FOV I'd have in RL (plus, I have both mirrors on the screen, I just have to glance in the corner, same for instruments...)

[AndroidXP]

With that setting I'd probably drive every corner at 2/3 of the normal speed, because everything would feel so FAST :tilt:

[bbman]

I like being fast... :D

In fact, I don't really think it's fast... The tracks are so wide, it even feels slow... :D Or maybe I just adjusted to it, who knows... :shrug:

[Zero7]

I was driving for a few hours today back home from work and like dan I also tried to visualise the LFS cockpit and how I could interpret the view I could see onto the screen. I came up with this and so far, it feels a lot closer to driving my own car (VW Touran - so I'm up quite high). You'll see that the view is slightly angled down so you can see some of the bonnet as well.

Anyway, each to their own and there isn't a right or wrong way, you just need to experiment and try a few different angles. This one is actually growing on me I have to say.

[NaBUru38]

My view is an edited chase view - as the custom view doen't let you go far enough, I picked up the chase view and changed View Distance from 5.0 to 5.20. Now I can overcome the lack of mirrors and can see to the sides clearly (if I press "look left" from the inside of the car... the camera turns too fast and I don't see anything).

Would it be possible to let the player move and adjust the custom camera with more freedom? More position freedom, an option to set the camera inertia (which is annoying - when I'm turning left, the camera isn't on the speed's tangent but a bit shifted to the right), the "camera turns as the steering wheel turns" opiton, another one to allow free mouse-controlled view (with return-to-the-centre button)... Chase camera shouldn't be discriminated :D.

[VIP UA]

Only cockpit view. In all simulators.

[mrodgers]

Zero7, that looks very close to mine, except in that seat you should only see a glove box and the dash. The wheel and guages should be on the other side, LOL. To me, it isn't about what you see/what you don't see, it's about proportion. You have to think when visualizing in your real car and scale it down to monitor size AND correct proportion. Those with anything 80 or above, the proportion is just so wrong. I don't see the mirrors out in front of me, they are to the side. I have to turn my head to look at them, therefore I shouldn't see them on the monitor as well unless turning my head. Same with any part of the doorpanel or passenger side of the car. They should not be in view on the monitor if you set the proportion correct.

[Blowtus]

I treat my monitor as my windscreen, though have the cam centered in car, as I don't have the same ability to compensate for view as in real life... none of the car visible, 120 fov (only possible since I picked up a 21" screen, looked too distorted previously) to emulate peripheral vision as well as possible.

[tailing]

A widescreen monitor really helps I found, I use cockpit view and see the mirrors without needing to use a high fov, about 85 I think.

[Funnybear]

Is it me or does phrase 'soft poll' sound slighlty suspect.

[B2B@300]

No :scratchch I think you just have too much time to spare :razz:

[Zero7]

Zero7, that looks very close to mine, except in that seat you should only see a glove box and the dash. The wheel and guages should be on the other side, LOL.

What you mean on the wrong side!!? :razz:

To me, it isn't about what you see/what you don't see, it's about proportion. You have to think when visualizing in your real car and scale it down to monitor size AND correct proportion. Those with anything 80 or above, the proportion is just so wrong. I don't see the mirrors out in front of me, they are to the side. I have to turn my head to look at them, therefore I shouldn't see them on the monitor as well unless turning my head. Same with any part of the doorpanel or passenger side of the car. They should not be in view on the monitor if you set the proportion correct.

Absolutely. In fact I was on Aston GP Rev (in the FXR) last night with this view and even though it's a low FOV it still felt very fast and the speed did feel closer to the real thing. The other thing that I couldn't do with this is reposition the mirror so it was in view (the mirror settings were at their max), so I had to resort to the virtual mirror which whilst showed who was behind me, it didn't truely represent where someone was as they tried to pass me on the inside. I'm not sure if this has been suggested as well, but an option to look 45 degrees left and right would be nice just so you can look in the wing mirrors (well, it would be useful for this type of view).

[IDUI]

I'd like to thank cvearl and all those who contributed to this thread. You've made me faster! :thumb: I now can actually see where I'm going. Didn't bother with changing FOV before. Now I gave the smaller FOV a chance and :wow: I can see! :trampolin :woohoo:

[SlamDunk]

Cockpit. Always cockpit, with these settings:

- Field of view : 90°
- 1g head tilt : 1.00°
- 1g lateral shift : 0.010 m
- 1g forward shift : 0.040 m
- 1g vertical shift : 0.030 m
- Move view with animation : on
- Look function : steer
- Look sensitiviy : 0.30

Those make the driving experience more "alive" for me. Great feeling of driving :thumbsup:

[NotAnIllusion]

FOV - 60°
1g head tilt - 2.00°
1g lateral shift - 0.030m
1g forward shift - 0.030m
1g vertical shift - 0.020m
Move.... - on
look function - steer
look sensitivity - 1.00

Now that's what you call immersion! :p I do drive with those settings too..

[speedfreak227]

I've also seen some really strange view settings... like the "120° frog wheels view" fordman was using when I visited him....

is there any chance that you or fordman could post a screenshot of that? i'm having trouble getting my head around "120° frog wheels view"

speedfreak227

[cvearl]

I'd like to thank cvearl and all those who contributed to this thread. You've made me faster! :thumb: I now can actually see where I'm going. Didn't bother with changing FOV before. Now I gave the smaller FOV a chance and :wow: I can see! :trampolin :woohoo:

I am just very happy and suprised that so many actually responded. Usually forums are not this alive.

Although I have not gotten my LFS Full version yet (but will soon) I am becomming increasing convinced this is a long term game opportunity for me.

This number of responses in this little time is a testiment to the quality and quantity of the online community of this game. :thumbsup:

Just got to get off my azz and register and get out there and drive!!! Still finnishing GTL and RBR seasons first though. Gotta get my moneys worth outta those tites. Because something tells me I will not be driving other sims once I start here. :smileypul

C.

[AndroidXP]

Very wise thinking :thumb:

[ajp71]

TV cams the only way to go :)

[mrodgers]

I've tried to use top down view (sky view?) in banger racing :shrug: .

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

I've tried to use top down view (sky view?) in banger racing :shrug: .


So that's what you call autocross: Banger racing!

LOL

J/K.

FYI that Pacifica Racing fellow came back and absolutely slaughtered my best time on my own track:schwitz:


Does anyone use an FOV that would be akin to RL (like... 40 degrees or so?) When I first started LFSing I used to run 100 degrees, and now that I use 80 it looks really strange using high FOV. I thought I would really miss the sensation of speed but I don't at all :shrug:

[Hankstar]

Watch out for those Pacifica Racing guys BBT, pack of bloody cheats they are :tilt:

[harlen]

well, i was just wondering what views over people use, ie interior, birdseye etc. No real reason, just one of those daily questions lol!

[Jakg]

Cockpit ftw!

[zeugnimod]

Chase view.

Yes, I know...

[harlen]

Lol, forgot to post what i use. i use cockpit view!!!

[VoiD]

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=5746

Voted for Cockpit

[deggis]

Helmet view!

http://torttu.net/temp/lfs/helmet_view.jpg

LOL, not really

[KiDCoDEa]

whoever is gettin laid with deggis, we thank u deeply. he's much funnier nowadays. bless you.

[Bob Smith]

harlen - merged your thread with the existing thread on the same matter, already full of answers. ;)

[harlen]

harlen - merged your thread with the existing thread on the same matter, already full of answers. ;)
oh ok, i didnt know there was one already! Cockpit ftw!

[frokki]

Gotta be cockpit. Anything else just isn't a sim, and the framerate hit is so tiny that I think it's a naff excuse unless you have a Pentium II100% agreed. Oldish thread btw.

[deggis]

whoever is gettin laid with deggis, we thank u deeply. he's much funnier nowadays. bless you.
I'm sure you wouldn't want to know this, but it's the cat in your avatar. :D

[harlen]

yeh i know its old, but bob merged mine into this, causing a bump

[Franek_PL]

My view :)

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2341/bf1viewlh8.jpg

[Davo]

Used cockpit to begin with, but it's a very limited view IMO and not very real. Now use wheels or bonnet cam. Widescreen is great for the hi FOV.

[Primoz]

Cockpit for everything, chase for GTA, bumper for rally/NFS.

[rc10racer]

I use chase view yea yea i know lmao i blame sony and the dam playstation era

[JTbo]

My car's steering wheel resides in cockpit, typically very near to driver's seat is where it can be found, so I like to sit where I can reach to wheel and pedals.

Same way it is with sims too ;)

[Xaid0n]

I use Rollbar cam for Single Seaters (the view you get on TV) and cockpit view on the rest of the cars :)

[Quietus]

Cockpit view... tempted to play with some custom views though, as in some cars part of the dash is obscured by the wheel (and I want the wheel on!).

FOV is 75, and 90 for the MRT.

[Eldanor]

Cockpit for me! :thumb: I've been using that view since I remeber playing any car game that had it available. And when it wasn't I used bumper view. That has made me really suck with the chase cam, so despite it's pretty unrealistic, I can't use it anyways LOL

[Micaoct]

Cockpit here. I can't drive chase it feels too wierd. LFS is the only game/sim that it's true for.

[ShannonN]

Used cockpit to begin with, but it's a very limited view IMO and not very real. Now use wheels or bonnet cam. Widescreen is great for the hi FOV.

While I agree the cockpit view isn't the best I question the use of any other view with respect to realism? Now No Flames please! but ....

Like we drive our cars on the inside in a cockpit view. I really think the other views should be disabled when driving, just enabled for spectating the sim is noted for striving for realism etc but allows ppl who wish to gain advantages :) to drive basically outside the car.

No real racing series allows the driver to sit on the roof and drive or climb on the bonnet etc

You get the idea I'm sure.

For the sake of realism which is the main aim of LFS and why we race . cockpit view when driving should be the only available view , choice of side (left or right hand drive) is ok and some lateral adjustments etc but essentially I'd like to see it relevent to normal driving positions that are available in the real life type of car that the LFS car is modelled on

Single seaters of course you sit in the middle

My two cents worth
ShannonN

[Davo]

Yeah cockpit is good, but changing from left to right hand drive can feel weird so I use a view that's the same for every car to be consistant and have thjat advnatage. If it's there might as well use it. Until the other views are disabled or whatever in the servers when racing in 'hardcore' mode, I'll use my view to my advantage. If I was skilled enough I'd use chase because IMO it is the best view but I can't drive with it lol

If I had 3 screens with middle left and right displayed then Id use cockpit as I could just move my eyes or head a little bit and see what's next to me etc and that would be ultimate realism and immersion. When driving on the road the only time I look at the dash is to see the speed and when changing CDs and you actually have to make an effort to look down off the road. You can see much more actually of the road infront of you instead of the whole dash. That is why the cockpit just seems too cluttered with dash and wasted viewing space.

[ATC Quicksilver]

I use bumper with the wheels on, i have custom settings on that. I just find it offers the best view when racing online, until the cockpits improve i suspect i will keep on using that view.

[lyd]

Up until this moment I have used cockpit view with a FOV of 76* and sometimes a little pitch. The FOV and pitch I use to try to match the dash (driver and wheel off, real clocks) up with my real wheel and hands so it all seems, in perspective, to the proper scale. It only works so-so.

I just noticed, however, that since I installed U30 I can turn off wheel and driver in the custom views as well, so I am going to immediately switch to that. Using the Y and Z offset is a much better way to do what I want, but I never liked having to live with the in-game wheel.

Yay for test patches!

lyd

EDIT: Eh. Maybe I got a little over excited. After playing around with the custom view for a bit, I wound up with something pretty close to what I started with. What I really need in order to get some satisfaction here is a 3-head setup and rl gauges. Ah well, maybe someday. For now, with my current rig, there just doesn't seem to be a good way to get semi-realistic view out of the car without virtualizing the clocks and the mirrors, which kind of spoils the effect.

Not that any of this makes it any less fun. ;-)

lyd

[DFS_MadFred]

Cockpit of course....

with the added bonus of a TrackIR device, which takes care of the situational awareness.. plus makes it so much more immersive.

I'm really pleased with the TIR in LFS too, in some other race sims
it feels a bit awkward, but the tracking in LFS feels really natural.

With the lights off and the sound cranked up, you'll get sucked in
right away...

[OneCrazyDiamond]

Cockpit's the only view for me. :D

[LFSn00b]

Hood cam, sometimes the bumper cam.

[alland44]

Nothing will EVER be totally realistic, it is a game after all, but the cockpit view is a more realistic representation of what you see in a real car.

Dan,

No it isn`t - The cockpitview is a poor view, and is nowhere close to the real thing. I`ve been driving my own cars, since 1977, so my statement has a sort of value.

I usually see the tires, in the position they are in a real car. Openwheelers I sit in the "cockpit".

The cockpitview, is the worst thing about LFS, and any other simlike racergame, as you can never ever get the feeling, from a real car. I have seen those three screens setups - They look much much better, but I do not earn enough money, to buy such thingies !?

Force cockpitview on me, and I will drop LFS instantly.

[sinbad]

No it isn`t - The cockpitview is a poor view, and is nowhere close to the real thing. I`ve been driving my own cars, since 1977, so my statement has a sort of value.

I usually see the tires, in the position they are in a real car. Openwheelers I sit in the "cockpit".


Wait a second, a view with the camera positioned where the driver's head would be is less realistic than an x-ray vision camera positioned in the middle of the car with only the front wheels on show? What sort of cars have you been driving?

I'm sure I've posted before in this thread so my opinions are "on record" and I won't repeat myself, but when I see people justifying the realism claims made about the central "wheels view", with no sort of real basis for doing so, it winds me up.

[TyresHot]

reality = fun = cockpit

[alland44]

Wait a second, a view with the camera positioned where the driver's head would be is less realistic than an x-ray vision camera positioned in the middle of the car with only the front wheels on show? What sort of cars have you been driving?

I'm sure I've posted before in this thread so my opinions are "on record" and I won't repeat myself, but when I see people justifying the realism claims made about the central "wheels view", with no sort of real basis for doing so, it winds me up.


Do you own a car yourself !?

It`s the feeling of the road - The black material underneath the car, I`m speaking of :)

I have to see this black material move, to drive the car. Sitting in the cockpit, do not allow you the same feeling, as in an IRL car.

When I choose this view, I get the closest to the IRL feeling, I can get. I have tried all views, and I mean ALL !

I am working on a better view, and are planning to get in the car, when I get the rigth equipment. I am in the market for a projector, which could give me the rigth feeling I seek.

But again - Money is the issue :)

EDIT :

And again. All the openwheelers, i sit IN THE CAR !

Lx4, Lx6, Fox, Fo8, Mrt, Bf1, so 33% of the cars is ok - Rigth :)

REEDIT :

And in the uf1000, when the top is off :) - Now we`re really getting somewhere !

[Hyperactive]

This post is not directed at anyone, just something I always want to say when I read these driving view threads.

With the custom views etc. LFS allows you set the view so that you can see everything around you better than you would in real life. You can see exactly where your front tire goes and how close to the grass it is on the corner exit. With wheels view you can leave 0.5 millimeters between you and the wall and be 100% sure that you won't touch the wall. You can predict the racing line perfectly when looking the world around you higher than any real life racer is able to look. You get better visibility in blind corners, see the other cars perfectly and have 0 blind spots, A-pillars obstructing your vision etc..

I'm happy with the almost default cockpit view. It has the A-pillars blocking my view into corners, all other pillars obstructing partly my vision into other directions. I don't have my eyes 20 feet high so I don't see others on the track perfectly, some times I have to guess where they are. I have to guess how close I am to the wall as I can't tell it from the cockpit. So sometimes I hit something when I thought there was more room, sometimes I find out that there was more room than I thought.

I have tried the wheels-view and it was faster and easier. But not realistic, at all. Everybody to their own, I'm not saying that you should use this or that. But in my books using the wheels view, setting the camera a bit higher is cheating. Rough word, but that's my honest opinion.

Been driving cars for just 5 years in real life. Always inside the cockpit.

[alland44]

This post is not directed at anyone, just something I always want to say when I read these driving view threads.

With the custom views etc. LFS allows you set the view so that you can see everything around you better than you would in real life. You can see exactly where your front tire goes and how close to the grass it is on the corner exit. With wheels view you can leave 0.5 millimeters between you and the wall and be 100% sure that you won't touch the wall. You can predict the racing line perfectly when looking the world around you higher than any real life racer is able to look. You get better visibility in blind corners, see the other cars perfectly and have 0 blind spots, A-pillars obstructing your vision etc..

I'm happy with the almost default cockpit view. It has the A-pillars blocking my view into corners, all other pillars obstructing partly my vision into other directions. I don't have my eyes 20 feet high so I don't see others on the track perfectly, some times I have to guess where they are. I have to guess how close I am to the wall as I can't tell it from the cockpit. So sometimes I hit something when I thought there was more room, sometimes I find out that there was more room than I thought.

I have tried the wheels-view and it was faster and easier. But not realistic, at all. Everybody to their own, I'm not saying that you should use this or that. But in my books using the wheels view, setting the camera a bit higher is cheating. Rough word, but that's my honest opinion.

Been driving cars for just 5 years in real life. Always inside the cockpit.

I am a bit worried. You have driven an irl car for 5 years, and you can`t tell the difference !?

How does that sound :)

But you finns can drive any car, anywhere - faaaast !
Finns are born with gasoline in their venes :thumb:

[greg_slideways]

Cockpit...End of story...if your racing in a sim use cockpit...if you race arcade use some other crap!!! Thats how i feel!!!!

[The Very End]

What was wrong with the other topic where we discussed the camera angels used? :shrug: Let us not start it all over again.

----Chase veiw user since S1 demo, and still uses it----

[greg_slideways]

Is it something i said?? haha sorry just a strong SIM guy HAHA

[The Very End]

Nono, nothing wrong said :)
People have their opinion, and I have mine. My point was just that we allready has a topic on the 1st page that are used in discussion cockpit vs chase/other camera angels. Was no need for bumping an almost 1 year old topic.

[greg_slideways]

opps it read today..and new post i guess my comp is acting up!! haha sorry!!

[RatzMilk]

Cockpit of course....

with the added bonus of a TrackIR device, which takes care of the situational awareness.. plus makes it so much more immersive.

I'm really pleased with the TIR in LFS too, in some other race sims
it feels a bit awkward, but the tracking in LFS feels really natural.

With the lights off and the sound cranked up, you'll get sucked in
right away...

Same for me.