Deformable road surface for rallycross tracks

[Taavi(EST)]

Hello!
I'm very afraid that this has been suggested but i didn't find it with search so i'll post this. By deforming road surface i mean that car wheels would leave a mark on muddy/gravel surface like it's shown here:
http://www.gessford.com/cobra/images/MPH-Rallycross-06828.JPG
I know it's not a good example but you'll get the idea, it can be done by textures, but what it really would do is, even up the races so eventually you cannot use the best line because you'll go slower there and even may get stuck if it's rainy (s3) by doing this with 3d modeling it would run the game into heavy framerate issues, but maybe it would be possible to do with textures, like the tyre marks are done, but they would affect the physics aswell (bumps etc). It's not an easy thing to do, but i'm sure it would add some serious depth to a rallycross race, right now it's just hitting the right lane and keeping up the speed, and only motivation to go on is a challenge, for me it's starting to fade because there are very little racers getting it as fast as i can. (i'm not braging)

Just my 2 cents (/me gets my flamesuit ready, just in case)

[herki]

I think it's a good idea :thumb:

buy s2!

[Vain]

Definitely a good idea. :thumb:

Vain

[mr_x]

i agree with the 2 above posts :D

[the_angry_angel]

:up:

[Tweaker]

Yeah, I think for the simplest way to have this done would be to have all DIRT/GRASS surfaces to have a different kind of skidmark texture drawn.

We already have skidmarks on the hard tarmac, but if we could have the skidmark texture be drawn as an 'inset' tire track on the dirt or grass, it would work out great. It may look flat, because it would just be a texture drawn still.... but I think it would be the first easy step to having it... and it wouldn't look all that bad.

Other games do it, and it doesn't look so bad.

As for a deformable surface where the surface is actually changed.... well that would be a tough one, pretty advanced, maybe that will come later on.

:up: :up:

[Hankstar]

What they said^ :thumbsup:

[XCNuse]

yep.. i remember the thread about this back in RSC, i cant remember what it was called so i dont know what to search; i think it was something around the lines of rally.. and groove

[axus]

:thumb: +1

Would be difficult to make properly though...

[Taavi(EST)]

Thanks for the positive answers. /me hangs the flamesuit back on the wall where it belongs.

Btw my point was that the skidmarks on mud/gravel would affect the driving/physics not just the cosmetical stuff, but it must be somehow evident, so there wouldn't be some holes that u can't really see...:tilt:

[NaBUru38]

Scawen, it would take only some time... a couple of times, in fact :D
It would be an after-gen feature... this is the future, man.

On the grass too - there should be grass-less lines.

[timi (CRO)]

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

That is "BACK TO THE FUTURE" stuff

can't wait for these feature come to life in sim racing!!!

great idea Taavi:thumb:

[deggis]

RBR has this, though only in championship mode and the road doesn't exactly deform dynamically. It just depends on the starting position if the road is deformated or "new" road.

[Chaos]

yup good idea :thumb: (real live changes) i think it would not be hard to implement, but imo we don't have the computing power to cope with this yet...

[Vain]

It's mainly raising te polygon-count in the high-duty areas and changing the alternation of some polys when someone drives over them. It's a lot of brainwork to be put into it, but the CPUs are definitely up to the work. Performance decrease in fps: 0(,0002)

Vain

[CoreTEC]

would add some realism if you could spin a hole in the ground and leave marks. dirt flying onto the gras, tarmac, car etc. affecting both grip (gravel on tarmac) and visibility (mud on windshield)

[Chaos]

It's mainly raising te polygon-count in the high-duty areas and changing the alternation of some polys when someone drives over them. It's a lot of brainwork to be put into it, but the CPUs are definitely up to the work. Performance decrease in fps: 0(,0002)

Vain
nope, i will argue on this... you have to matematically find out how much and which poly has to be altered and the increased poly count will do a hit on fps on its own... the physics of changable envrionment has not been seen in many games yet (red faction if i recall correctly), this is why the Ageia Physics processor (http://www.ageia.com/) has been developed...

[Vain]

That is because the free deformation of the enviroment is really complicated. Here in LFS we don't have free deformation, all the player can do is create tracks in the dirt.
When you think about how to construct tracks from a pattern of a lot polygons (let's say quads, for simplification) it really isn't too complicated in terms of CPU-time. There's still a lot of maths and thinking to do, but the CPU usage should be far lower than what f.e. the tyre model causes.
But I don't think we should get into details of a track-model here. That'd be beyond the scope of the thread and we want to leave some work to Scawen, no?

Vain

[Fetzo]

it would be nice, but i think it's an insane idea for todays pc's . :)

[w126]

TWhen you think about how to construct tracks from a pattern of a lot polygons (let's say quads, for simplification) it really isn't too complicated in terms of CPU-time. There's still a lot of maths and thinking to do, but the CPU usage should be far lower than what f.e. the tyre model causes. Having for example reasonably looking (and acting) ruts in gravel road would require significantly more polygons representing road surface per square meter than are used now. Then these polygons act as input to collision detection algorithm (you need to know where the wheels contact the road in every simulation step). The computational complexity of this algorithm is probably more than linear wrt number of polygons, so there is definitely significant computational cost involved in achieving such deformable surfaces.

[jtr99]

Possibly I'm going to get flamed for even mentioning a console game in a positive light here, but the PS2 game "World of Outlaws" (a surprisingly good dirt-track sprint-car simulator) did a nice job of this, although in a very simple way. As the various sessions passed over the course of a racing day (practice, qual, heat race, etc.) the appearance and grip levels of the track would change and this would mean that by the end of the day the fastest line was in a significantly different place than it was at the beginning. (This was a great way to make racing on a short-track dirt oval more interesting and challenging, although the really casual user might not have noticed it.)

Now of course this was all achieved through "canned effects", and what was really happening was that racing occured across five or six subtly different tracks as time went on. Nevertheless it was a cool effect and something similar could surely be done on an LFS rally-X track without the sort of CPU-intensive graphical issues that actual modelling of bumps and ruts would involve.

[Bob Smith]

Dirt tracks in the mud would be nice. :)

[Fetzo]

Possibly I'm going to get flamed for even mentioning a console game in a positive light here, but the PS2 game "World of Outlaws" (a surprisingly good dirt-track sprint-car simulator) did a nice job of this, although in a very simple way. As the various sessions passed over the course of a racing day (practice, qual, heat race, etc.) the appearance and grip levels of the track would change and this would mean that by the end of the day the fastest line was in a significantly different place than it was at the beginning. (This was a great way to make racing on a short-track dirt oval more interesting and challenging, although the really casual user might not have noticed it.)

Now of course this was all achieved through "canned effects", and what was really happening was that racing occured across five or six subtly different tracks as time went on. Nevertheless it was a cool effect and something similar could surely be done on an LFS rally-X track without the sort of CPU-intensive graphical issues that actual modelling of bumps and ruts would involve.

but you can't compare a dirt oval with rallycross tracks. especially the transitions from dirt to mud/gravel and vice versa. there are too many different lines on a rallycross track with the different cars. the 'damage' these cars deal to the track is also very different.

don't get me wrong, i would like to have something like this, but i don't think it's possible yet.

first of all i would like to have a nice simulation of the dirt on the tarmac.

[w126]

Sega Rally Revo (an arcade game) is going to have the feature discussed in this thread.
http://pc.ign.com/articles/708/708074p1.html
More interesting, however, is how each car will shift polygons in the roads themselves. They create patterns and waves as they bend when driven upon.

We watched as the producer circled around the same patch of dirt over and over again. As he did, the heavy rally tires dug various grooves into the ground. By switching cars, from a light to a heavy one, the grooves dug were deeper and more profound. The earth didn't regenerate or reform, it stayed the same. When the car was slowly rolled over it, the shocks perfectly reacted to each groove with great precision. Imagine now that the course you're going to play on has multiple cars racing across the same surface multiple times, creating distinctly different terrain obstacles each lap. Not just your car, either, the AI cars, too.

[Fetzo]

well i played the recent sega rally part.....and it's soooo bad, i wouldnt expect very much :D!

[L(Oo)ney]

We have deformable cars, which is pretty much the type of system needed to make this, i think.

"All" that needs to be done, is to add this same deforming system used to crumple the cars onto the mud sections. When a wheel travels over it, you deform the "mud" and you make ruts. :shrug:

For simply visual purposes though, a custom height map would work fine to add some "pre made" ruts onto the track.

[Tekspdy]

Graphically, the addition of bumpmaps could add this effect easily. Although adding bumpmaps will not, lol.

Physical effects to the dirt as people drive on them, will add a considerable amount of polygons on road surfaces as people drive on them.

OR, the addition of thousands of polygons on the road surfaces without cars driving on them, and to have them mold as people drive over them to form tire tracks.

Either way, your asking for some serious lag for people without 128-256mb video cards.

There could be another way to simplify. Instead of tred marks, the tire trail is darker, and has a darker side to it, to form a "shadow" like wall to it to make a 3d representation. Also a lighter side. Almost like bump mapping. Then, have the tire tracks made on rallycross roads have parameters to affect the physics of the vehicles passing over them, to simulate "bumps", or if you slide over some tracks going sideways, to bump your car and cause your car to flip, depending on the speed and how deep the track.



It's alot of work, I honestly think it would make me drive in the rally races though, for the time being I find it much more fun driving on a road.

[nfsjunkie91]

We have deformable cars, which is pretty much the type of system needed to make this, i think.

"All" that needs to be done, is to add this same deforming system used to crumple the cars onto the mud sections. When a wheel travels over it, you deform the "mud" and you make ruts. :shrug:

For simply visual purposes though, a custom height map would work fine to add some "pre made" ruts onto the track.

Cars are higher poly models than the track (methinks), so tire ruts wouldn't look that good in whatever the area was, it would just cause the ground to sink. If the road was higher poly, this idea would work just fine. :thumb:

[Shotglass]

for a quick solution bump/shadowmaps (possibly dynamically genereated sort of like the way doom does) + changing the splines (or whatever lfs uses) the cars drive on should do the trick
wont look particularly good for large deformations but you will get the idea what the dirt looks like

[Tekspdy]

From what I've seen, the developers have kept the tracks relatively low on their polygon count. Although, the tracks, almost certainly have more polygons than the cars. I have not seen a wireframe of either, I just use good judgment to make that asessment.

[bal00]

I guess this would have to be turned off in hotllapping mode, though. Otherwise you'd probably see people spending like half an hour to remodel the whole thing.

[imthebestracerthereis]

it needs to be there // dirt without marks is like street without skidmarks :P

[Dajmin]

+1 for this one.

Would be hard to do - I think the live changes to mapping might draw a lot of CPU time. And I don't think it'd work too well with just a texture change, because we'd all be expecting the force feedback of a proper indentation and that wouldn't be calculated properly without it.

But I'm all for this as a feature.

[dev]

+1 from me to

+1 for this one.

Would be hard to do - I think the live changes to mapping might draw a lot of CPU time. And I don't think it'd work too well with just a texture change, because we'd all be expecting the force feedback of a proper indentation and that wouldn't be calculated properly without it.

But I'm all for this as a feature.


In DX9 it can easily be done with normal mapping. I don't have any easy solutions for DX8

[Dajmin]

So...who's gonna volunteer to tell the guys they need to rewrite the engine for DX9 then? :)

[Electrik Kar]

"All" that needs to be done, is to add this same deforming system used to crumple the cars onto the mud sections. When a wheel travels over it, you deform the "mud" and you make ruts


Think of a game like Simcity 4 (and many others) - where people use 'brushes' to raise and sink geometry to create mountains or create valley's, etc. Maybe on every wheel of every car (at the point of surface contact)- there could be an invisible 'brush' which over time and dependending on the surface (more pronounced for mud, less so for grass and dirt, no effect on tarmac) - the brushes created (or painted) a realistic kind of depression in the ground. I don't know how viable this approach would be when applied to simracing - but today's computers seem pretty able to chop through the calculations when it comes to realtime terrain editing..

[AndroidXP]

I'm afraid the visual part would be restricted to shader tricks like normal or even parallax mapping. Additionally to that you could change the collision mesh by a limited amount so it has an actual effect on the physics, but breaking up the road polygons to display the deformation 1:1 is a no-no in my book. I mean, you probably could do it, but only high end PC's would be able to handle the ungodly amounts of polygons rallyX would create. I don't think that's what you want.

E: Also you cannot compare SimCity like tile-grids with a 3D environment. If you were to split up the track into tiles small enough not to look completely out of place, then not even the best graphics cards could handle that.

Lets say for example, one stretched part in the middle of a rallyX track, is maybe 6*1m = 6m² big. That's two triangles forming the polygon - if there is a bit more detail then maybe 10 triangles or so.
Okay, so what would be an acceptable tile size? Maybe half a tyre width. So lets approximate about 20cm/2 = 10cm * 10cm = 100cm² per tile. We do only simple deformation so lets say one tile = 2 triangles (could be 4 also, for more detailed deformation). Now what was previously two to ten triangles, suddenly becomes: 6m² / 100cm² = 600 tiles * 2 = 1200 triangles. I hope you get the idea why this is not possible this way.

[wheel4hummer]

Maybe the visual deformation should be bumpmapped, and the collision mesh changed according to the bump map?

[AndroidXP]

That's what I said :rolleyes:

[Electrik Kar]

But these are techniques (bump mapping and parallax mapping) which are used primarily to raise surfaces, not to lower them. Actually, I imagine you could use parallax mapping and it might 'look' good, but I fail to see how simple bump mapped texturing could work... :shrug:

edit : And just having some texture 'effect' then adding some kind of canned collision detection to go along with it, seems to me to be against the spirit of a game like LFS. The devs are at pains working to create relatively sophisticated models of real-life processes. A stick-on hole in the ground doesn't really fit the vision imo...

But I admit it would be better than nothing :shrug: :D

[AndroidXP]

Yeah, I guess bump mapping wouldn't be suited after all, as it only really works on steep viewing angles (which you rarely have while racing). :shrug:

[jtw62074]

I saw an example of this done a few years back on a "professional" level driving simulator for engineering use. If I recall correctly, they used parallax mapping to create the effect. It looked quite good actually and I was really impressed with it. This worked great on mud, dirt, and snow, and you could have an unlimited number of tire tracks through it all. If I can find the videos again I'll post them here. This was done before shaders were around, if I'm not mistaken, so today it could probably be done quite well with the newer graphics card technologies of the past few years.

Once you've done it with parralax mapping, you can most likely then read the depression information as the tire drives over the ruts, then alter the collision point(s) of the tire so the tire dives down into the rut a bit when you run through it. So the visual aspect is a bit of an illusion/trick (a rather convincing one, actually), while the physics reaction to the ruts could be done quite properly as well.

Doing the same thing with multiple polys might be a stretch due to the shear number of polys that might be needed. It might be fast enough to do this in a shader, but then you don't have access to the altered vertices (as they're pushed downward when you run over them) so it'd be a bit tricky to make the car react to the ruts. Parallax mapping is probably the best way to go, but I'm no graphics guru. Scawen could school me on that with no problem and I'd happily listen :D

[Shotglass]

doesnt use lfs some kind of spline surface that hasnt necessarily got much to do with what we see in game ?

if so you dont need the info from the graphical representation its the other way round

[AndroidXP]

Well, yes, the polygons you see rendered are not used for the actual collision mesh. The latter one is very similar to the rendered surface, but for example all the bumps in grass, mud and sand are only present on the hidden mesh (AFAIK).

[Shotglass]

exactly my point so you dont have to read collision info from the parallax mappings but directly from the slpines
which btw are by nature very easy to manipulate (which will be a bitch to keep synched in an online game though)

[jtw62074]

You're not going to have any control over ruts and so on using splines. You could still do the parallax bit on top of it though.

[Shotglass]

You're not going to have any control over ruts and so on using splines. You could still do the parallax bit on top of it though.

why not ? all it takes is moving a few points that make up the spline maybe add a few if you need a sharper edge ... instant ruts

[jtw62074]

And you're going to control their location, how? Usually a spline system consists of a handful of splines, so you can go ahead and ripple up the area a bit here and there, but you're not going to have 50 different ruts all precisely placed where you want them.

[jtw62074]

hahaha, yeah :D

[Electrik Kar]

I want this as a car option...

[Hyperactive]

...
If I can find the videos again I'll post them here.
...
Still waiting :p

[imthebestracerthereis]

I want this as a car option... I would like a tow truck for broken cars :P

[Shotglass]

And you're going to control their location, how?

they got to be stored somewhere in memory so it cant be all that hard to manipulate their positions
and by looking at so/curbs the spline system can handle sharp bumps/ruts

id rather worry about the collision detection acting up in those ruts than about the splines themself

[Hyperactive]

I wouldn't really worry about those tire treads seen in the pic in the 1st post because there is nothing so soft in LFS, at least atm.. I'd be quite satisfied with the gravel surface being dynamic,as the rce goes on the surface gets worse and the textures could be enough to visualize it. Or some small holes and bumps generated in places where tires lock and/or lots of wheelspin/sliding occurs.

In short, I'm more interested about the "surface deformation and physics related stuff (grip levels, bumps and holes) than the visual effect". Wouldn't the graphical stuff of the bumps use more resources than the simulation part? :)

We aren't driving on a corn field wtf :p

[jtw62074]

they got to be stored somewhere in memory so it cant be all that hard to manipulate their positions
and by looking at so/curbs the spline system can handle sharp bumps/ruts

id rather worry about the collision detection acting up in those ruts than about the splines themself

Much easier said than done. If you have a few spines along the width of the track you can make some waves across it, but putting a 150mm wide curved rut precisely located wherever you want is probably not a realistic option, even if you were to manually do it. You don't have infinite control over the surface with splines unless you have a LOT of splines. In that case you might as well do it with high density polys. That'd be a lot easier. Attempting to calculate the changes needed on the spline to do it automatically would be rather challenging, to say the least, even for one rut. Want another one perpendicular to that one crossing through it? Errr... :D Try playing with splines some time and you'll probably see what I mean.

This would most likely be an exceedingly difficult approach to the problem which could be solved in much easier ways.

[Electrik Kar]

I wouldn't really worry about those tire treads seen in the pic in the 1st post because there is nothing so soft in LFS, at least atm..

We aren't driving on a corn field wtf

If the devs did work out a way to simulate dynamic changes in the road encompassing both physics and graphical elements, you'd probably want a track to really let loose on which showcased it all. Like the carpark- you could just have an open (more or less) dirt paddock kind of space. Maybe with a few jumps and some soft spots where people could even get bogged. Or a twisty dirt road track where if you went off too far you'd really slow down and start churning up the mud. You could put the track together with the paddock (like BL and BL carpark) with different configurations designed around differing degrees of difficulty, from an easy oval route to a nightmarish twisted rally config, and a couple of in-between options. Maybe new game type where the first car to cover itself in mud (100%) wins- like Zen Bondage, if you ever saw that one. hmmm... :nut:

Coffee... It's amazing stuff.


edit: What I'm trying to say is, if any kindof work is going to happen in this area (dirt/rally/mud) - it's gotta be accompanied by an environment in which it can more fully express itself, otherwise I don't think it will be worth it on the part of the devs. The rally segments in LFS currently are very brief affairs. Everyone harps on about rain- but a richer rally experience would be (IMO) a much more fulfilling and fun ride than simply having slippery tracks.

[Shotglass]

Much easier said than done. If you have a few spines along the width of the track you can make some waves across it, but putting a 150mm wide curved rut precisely located wherever you want is probably not a realistic option, even if you were to manually do it. You don't have infinite control over the surface with splines unless you have a LOT of splines. In that case you might as well do it with high density polys.

wouldnt you just need 3 additional points across the width of the track to create a more or less realistic rut ?

[Fetzo]

in real life rallycross tyre tracks don't affect the driver very much. there nearly aren't any tyretracks on the surface. it would just be eyecandy. we are talking about cars with too much horsepower for gravel/mud. they just transfer the mud away from the racing line.

the main problem are the holes that are getting deeper and deeper during a race and MUCH more important is the dirt on the tarmac which makes overtaking on the outside impossible in tarmac-turns after a mud-part (at least without recent track-service).

the holes form mostly at the same places, but the mud just has to be a little more dry/wet and the surface forms in another way.

either scawen can implement this in a very simple and arcadish way or he chooses not to do this. imho it's impossible to do this in a realistic way.

we don't have decent rx tyres yet, nor cars, nor starting grids etc. etc. yet, so i don't see how this will ever be implemented.

[Electrik Kar]

we don't have decent rx tyres yet, nor cars, nor starting grids etc. etc. yet, so i don't see how this will ever be implemented.

/Electrik Kar begins to cry...:weeping:

[Flotch]

we don't have decent rx tyres yet, nor cars, nor starting grids etc. etc. yet, so i don't see how this will ever be implemented.
have you ever heard anything about a rallyx pack after the S2 final release?? :razz:

[AndroidXP]

No he hasn't. Unless you mean the rally pack, which is (would be) something completely different than a rallyx pack. ;)

[Electrik Kar]

I never heard..

/Electrik Kar stops crying, listens intently..

[Flotch]

No he hasn't. Unless you mean the rally pack, which is (would be) something completely different than a rallyx pack. ;)
rally pack does mean rallyx tracks added...be sure, stop dreaming :D

[AndroidXP]

Nonono, that's what YOU are thinking. :D More rallyX tracks would be a complete waste of time, as the current ones greatly fulfill their purpose. It's like requesting a new variant of Aston National, as if we hadn't enough of them already. More rallyX tracks wouldn't do anything. It would just mean we have more broad boring mud tracks.
Either add rally tuned cars and stages, or don't bother at all, seriously.

To be honest, I think the rally pack is pretty much a myth, that was one time mentioned by one dev as "maybe", and ever since then the community acts like the rally pack is a fact. I wouldn't put any hope into it. It would be nice to have, but... :shrug:

[Electrik Kar]

Q:
What's the status on the Rally Pack, and what can the people expect from it?
A:
Victor : I don't think a start has been made yet. We are still working on S2 final and we will have to gather around after that to see if it is time for a rally pack.


They haven't gathered around yet. :shrug:

[Fetzo]

have you ever heard anything about a rallyx pack after the S2 final release?? :razz:


hehehe, uhm ok. when S2 is final in 2 years i will really be looking forward to this pack (yes i actually forgot that one) :).

More rallyX tracks would be a complete waste of time, as the current ones greatly fulfill their purpose. It's like requesting a new variant of Aston National, as if we hadn't enough of them already. More rallyX tracks wouldn't do anything. It would just mean we have more broad boring mud tracks.

Obviously you don't like rallycross at all, so i will excuse your ignorance. i guess broad tarmac track aren't boring, eh? we have so many of them already!

or do you prefer tight boring mud tracks?

Imho there are not enough decent rallycross tracks (imho FE5 is very bad), but the lack of decent rallycross cars is even more bad.

[herki]

:bump:

I'd love to see at least skidmarks on non-tarmac surfaces. C'mon, that could be done for patch y, right :tilt:

[Nathan_French_14]

i have motorstorm for my PS3, and it has the same thing that your suggesting. on motorostorm, if you following a light buggy, it deforms the mud a little bit, but if your following a big rig, it deforms it a hell of alot, and can prove "interesting" if you get your car stuck into them. :)

[Dalarna]

i have motorstorm for my PS3, and it has the same thing that your suggesting. on motorostorm, if you following a light buggy, it deforms the mud a little bit, but if your following a big rig, it deforms it a hell of alot, and can prove "interesting" if you get your car stuck into them. :)

Yea, but would the average computer be able to handle it? Since the PS3 is one of the most advanced pieces of gaming hardware around. :schwitz:

EDIT: Not comparing to the supercomputers hardheaded gamers have of course.

[Jakg]

Ah BS is the PS3 more powerful than the PC - in some ways it is, in others it looses out massively

[Dalarna]

Ah BS is the PS3 more powerful than the PC - in some ways it is, in others it looses out massively

I'm talking about the average PC, a gaming PC at the absolute top in computers would totally smack it, but not everyone has that. I myself sit on a laptop with a not so good graphicscard and I was totally thrilled that LFS would work on it lag-free!
Not many driving-games/simulators work on it, if they work I can only run it with the superlow-graphics and even then it won't be lag-free.

I think that it should be kept that way, that any average computer can run it with not to much hassle so everybody, even those that don't have supercomputers or the money for a new computer, can enjoy the fun of LFS.

(Yes, I am aware that I am a demo-driver.)

[evilgeek]

wavelets to speed up the spline calcs?

i dunno. it sounds like doing the ruts properly would be quite difficult. on the other hand, accumulating loose dirt on the outside of turns, and making them more slippery as the race goes on, would be much easier and have just as big (or bigger) effect on the driving experience.

[deggis]

i have motorstorm for my PS3, and it has the same thing that your suggesting. on motorostorm, if you following a light buggy, it deforms the mud a little bit, but if your following a big rig, it deforms it a hell of alot, and can prove "interesting" if you get your car stuck into them. :)
But isn't it only a graphical trick?

According to HYPE™ new Sega Rally game is going to have real physically deformable road... dunno what the hell you do with such feature in a arcade game.

[CodieMorgan]

Im sure it would be hard (Unless Scawen can recreate the Doom3/F.E.A.R engine in RaceSim Form.) But I think it's possible!

Hell... I would live to even see cracks in wall barriers created from a direct head on crash in a BF1 at 220 mph on KY1 using the very same concept!

Must be hard and impractical for a race sim... but I give this a :thumb:+100000000

[CodieMorgan]

Oh.... (forum whore today I am [yoda]) ... also, once LFS gains snow this deformation thing would loookk f***ing awesome!

[CodieMorgan]

hehehe, uhm ok. when S2 is final in 2 years i will really be looking forward to this pack (yes i actually forgot that one) :).



Obviously you don't like rallycross at all, so i will excuse your ignorance. i guess broad tarmac track aren't boring, eh? we have so many of them already!

or do you prefer tight boring mud tracks?

Imho there are not enough decent rallycross tracks (imho FE5 is very bad), but the lack of decent rallycross cars is even more bad.

[yoda again: I see very bad thing I do, LFS drivers are turning to the dark side of the force.]

How 'bout.. More tracks of everykind... loads of em!

[DeadWolfBones]

Looks like Codie forgot his pills today. :schwitz:

[okijuhans]

+100000 :)

[Technique]

Bumping an old thread...

Not sure if it was posted, but I just saw this old video from 2007 that shows Sega Rally Revo's surface deformation in action. I don't play any console games so I thought it was kind of neat...

The surface deformation part starts at about ~4:15

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Rdqeu-2bTT8

[Not Sure]

not bad at all.. :nod:

[Xenix74]

Sega Rally Evo is too muuuchhhh Acarde. (but i love the first 2 part on Acarde Machines.)

The Idea of the Surface in Evo is Great and works Brillant. I only drive Evo such times on xbox360 demo to see the changes.
First Lap totaly different to drive as the last laps (and this is only an acarde game)
This would be great for Lfs. But before that, we need some RallyStages.
:scratchch Mhhm maybee not before.:D

[LazLoW]

+1

[Wilford]

What im also suggesting is a mud pit you know kinda like the Rallycross Blackwood track, except have deep tire ruts and have it filled with water textures that are active when the vehicle hits the water..i have the 86 GMC mod on here and i wanna be able to go through some watery mud

http://cdn.wn.com/pd/af/03/91446be548a373744b0a0d593d6c_grande.jpg

Exactly like that :)

[Zay]

What im also suggesting is a mud pit you know kinda like the Rallycross Blackwood track, except have deep tire ruts and have it filled with water textures that are active when the vehicle hits the water..i have the 86 GMC mod on here and i wanna be able to go through some watery mud

http://cdn.wn.com/pd/af/03/91446be548a373744b0a0d593d6c_grande.jpg

Exactly like that :)
:bananadea

[March Hare]

Bad demoer!

Here is a better off-road game than LFS.
http://www.offroad-game.com/

Unfortunately it's in Russian so it's a bit of a pain to get started. If you don't know Russian. But since you like modding it's real easy to make the menus and other stuff in English. You just have to modify a localisation file.

[ChiliFan]

I can't understand why you'd want an 86 GMC mod when none of the LFS cars drive remotely like an 86 GMC.

[Wilford]

Because i wanna have a truck that i can spray mud onto the truck and i got LFSTweak and Pro demo tweak and i modded it to drive like one

[pärtan]

+1

For those who think that this isn't possible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izyZ1kKQzbE

Outerra is a game currently in progress and here is an example that it's very possible. (Yes, those dirt trails are formed over time as vehicles drive in them and they turn deeper and deeper. They also slowly flatten out if not driven on)

Someone might have posted this example before.

[bunder9999]

+1

For those who think that this isn't possible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izyZ1kKQzbE

Outerra is a game currently in progress and here is an example that it's very possible. (Yes, those dirt trails are formed over time as vehicles drive in them and they turn deeper and deeper. They also slowly flatten out if not driven on)

Someone might have posted this example before.

what about the havok engine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH2iwyQQSRU

[pärtan]

what about the havok engine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH2iwyQQSRU

That too. I was just posting one example.

[justasimfan]

Well again sega rally evo proved that it is possible (sadly evo is the worst game of the 3 sega rally's.The first and second are timeless classics as they have some memorable tracks with the old charm of sega.In the evo they talked so much about deformable terrain to the point were they did not make any special tracks...They all look and feel very run of the mill....And the worst offender is that the other cars are incredibly hard and fast as they move without being affected by anything,yet you are slow as hell as the physics are messed up.If you brake you get very much behind,if you slide then again often you get behind....If a car touches you you slow down but not him etc...It's really messed up.In the first and second games there were a huge number of opponents slower than you with your real opponent the clock as goes with rally's....)

[E.Reiljans]

MX vs ATV: Reflex has some nice road surface deformation too.

[Keling]

Let's put the local simulation aside for a while. Are you sure on-line sync will give acceptable results ?

[wolfshark]

Dirt 3 has something like that. Judging by what i see it's achieved by normalmapping, and it looks great. I am not sure about does it do something with the grip though.

[pärtan]

Let's put the local simulation aside for a while. Are you sure on-line sync will give acceptable results ?

Good point :P