Let me go faster than 718km/h please!

[southamptonfc]

Hi,

I have found that it is impossible to go faster than 718km/h, LFS just resests the car.

Using Mechanik I have created something that could easily hit 1000km/h if LFS would let me.

Please could the 'reset speed' be made configurable so I can attempt the sound barrier?

Thanks,

Chris

[AndroidXP]

Yeah, Scawen will fix/implement this very important issue ASAP, because you know, he's really searching for something to do.

Sorry, but :rolleyes:

[tristancliffe]

The sound barrier is a peculiar thing, and it would be silly to program a racing sim that has much slower cars (max. circa 200mph) with the compressible flow equations. Therefore it resets you.

I see absolutely no reason to change that unless Scawen has plans to WSR 'cars', which I doubt.

Remember - big speeds/power/wheels does not a good driver/person/racer make.

[the_angry_angel]

As a little history lesson LFS has reset you at ~444mph for a long time, since pre S1 days (unfortunataly I cant give you an exact version number).

[cmckowen]

I can see where this might head....

Someone asking scawen to just remove the reset functionality once u hit the 444mph mark....AND THEN

Someone is bound to start complaining this is a sim so why the hell are we just able to get to those rediculous speeds regardless of the effects once the speed of light(:razz:) is reached.

How about getting your speed near that mark then get the brakes on and keep the car on the track and finish the lap...should make an interesting replay. :thumb:

My 5 cents :)

[southamptonfc]

I can see where this might head....

Someone asking scawen to just remove the reset functionality once u hit the 444mph mark....AND THEN

Someone is bound to start complaining this is a sim so why the hell are we just able to get to those rediculous speeds regardless of the effects once the speed of light(:razz:) is reached.

How about getting your speed near that mark then get the brakes on and keep the car on the track and finish the lap...should make an interesting replay. :thumb:

My 5 cents :)


No worries, been there, done that and posted the replay - which unfortunately doesn't work, get some wierd OOS error. Download the setups and try for yourself. You can go round the corners of the oval at 550 before the suspension buckles under the loading. You can do at least 2 laps of blackwood before the suspension and tyres give up.

Note that I asked it to be configurable not removed. Chances are this is a very easy thing to do, just read the value from a text file. If I was a programmer (which I am) I would think it was a cool idea. It's not my program so all I can do is request that they do it and hope they agree. It's not your lots game either so unless you speak for the devs, please shut up. Thanks

[AndroidXP]

Sorry to break it down to you, but this is one of the most useless feature requests ever. Having a configurable speed limit that can only be reached by hacking the game anyways... :pillepall. Look, I'm a programmer myself, and while adding a configurable limit would only take half an hour, you still have to realise that putting such things in a professional product is a waste of time, period.

There already is a incredibly long list of other improvement suggestions, some of them very useful, some less, but your suggestion would linger at the bottom of that list... no actually it wouldn't be put on it at all.

I don't mean that personal, really, it's just... a waste of time. *sigh* I'm at loss of words here.

[Shotglass]

you can go faster if you set your dfp higher than 720°

[southamptonfc]

I don't mean that personal, really, it's just... a waste of time. *sigh* I'm at loss of words here.
You aren't doing the coding so I don't think you can decide what a waste of time is. I'm absolutely sure the devs have tried it for fun, I would like to as well.

[tristancliffe]

You know, I bet they haven't tried it for fun...

[dUmAsS]

if the reset thing is removed then going any faster will most likely result in the car falling through the ground due to missed collisions

[Hankstar]

Odd request. I wouldn't have thought the inability to break the sound barrier was something that needed looking at in a car sim...but I'm sure the devs are sitting around twiddling their thumbs thinking of stuff to do, so you never know, they might read this and get inspired.

[Lautsprecher[NOR]]

but why was the limt put in in the first place? i see no reason for it being there.

[Vain]

1. While approaching the sound-barrier the physics change. LFS would just be unrealistic.
2. Propably the collision detection (with the ground) isn't checked fast enough to go over 718km/h. That means that boyond that speed you'd drive through the ground and LFS wouldn't notice because it can't check that often.

Vain

[AndroidXP]

Maybe Scawen just put the max speed to 200m/s? Or he thought that as soon as you move more than 0.1m per physics step the whole system becomes garbage? Who knows. The limit is there and it will not be moved, because it is completely irrelevant to the game. No car ingame even reaches half the speed of that limit. Any time spent to make that limit configurable is wasted time. Why do I feel like I'm repeating myself here :scratchch

[southamptonfc]

Why do I feel like I'm repeating myself here :scratchch
Because you are and it doesn't make your oppinion any more important than anyone elses.

[AndroidXP]

No it doesn't, but it's so frustrating seeing somebody seriously think that such an unimportant feature would ever be implemented.

:shrug:

[96 GTS]

Because you are and it doesn't make your oppinion any more important than anyone elses.
it's not really Android's oppinion, there are simply reasons why the limit exists. For one, the physics of air change significantly at that speed, and my guess is those physics aren't implemented. Secondly, I doubt the collision model would be able to detect your car on the ground, so you'd fall right through.

Scawen didn't just put that limit in there to spoil people's fun, I'm sure if LFS could cope with those speeds, you could make cars that go that fast.

I'm not saying breaking the sound barrier is stupid, what you do with LFS is up to you, but it's not what LFS is designed to do. Scawen has lots of other things to do before programming supersonic physics.

[southamptonfc]

No it doesn't, but it's so frustrating seeing somebody seriously think that such an unimportant feature would ever be implemented.

:shrug:
Deal with it, that's what this forum is for, there's no such thing as a stupid question.

[southamptonfc]

it's not really Android's oppinion, there are simply reasons why the limit exists. For one, the physics of air change significantly at that speed, and my guess is those physics aren't implemented. Secondly, I doubt the collision model would be able to detect your car on the ground, so you'd fall right through.

Scawen didn't just put that limit in there to spoil people's fun, I'm sure if LFS could cope with those speeds, you could make cars that go that fast.

I'm not saying breaking the sound barrier is stupid, what you do with LFS is up to you, but it's not what LFS is designed to do. Scawen has lots of other things to do before programming supersonic physics.
I'm not asking for physics to be improved, please read the original post. If there are reasons 718 is the max speed because the physics and game engine breaks down, then fine. I see what you're saying but you aren't a dev, its just speculation.

[XCNuse]

what are you gonna do at that speed anyway? lol car makers cant even imagine that number.. plus, even if a car could go that fast... then what? you cant do anything but stop.. if you would even live, aerodynamics would have to be insane at that speed..

(plus.. where'd you even find the room to go that fast?)

[Vain]

I guess it's more a "I want to do it because I can with my (tweaked) car"-thing than "I need +718km/h for proper racing".
The problem is that such insane speeds are beyond the scope of LFS. The physics aren't the same near the sound barrier and we'd also need to beef up the number of physics cycles per second, which raises the hardware requirements.
Again, you will say something along the lines of "stfu, I want a statement from Scawen", but as Scawen usually isn't that talkative I thought I'd tell you why the limitation is there, so you don't have to wait for ever for your explanation.

Vain

[southamptonfc]

I guess it's more a "I want to do it because I can with my (tweaked) car"-thing than "I need +718km/h for proper racing".
Vain
Exactly, it's a bit of fun!!
IThe problem is that such insane speeds are beyond the scope of LFS. The physics aren't the same near the sound barrier and we'd also need to beef up the number of physics cycles per second, which raises the hardware requirements.
Again, you will say something along the lines of "stfu, I want a statement from Scawen", but as Scawen usually isn't that talkative I thought I'd tell you why the limitation is there, so you don't have to wait for ever for your explanation.

Vain
"we'd also need to...." Are you a dev? I think your statement imples that an FX-57 runs the same amount of physics cycles per second as a Pentium3. If you have the source code, I'd really like a copy :) I'm not requesting physics improvements, simply configurability of the reset speed. If Scawen doesn't reply, fine, I posted this as a request and if they read it then cool.

[XCNuse]

but we will NEVER have a car that will GOOO that fast.. in life; so how are we even supposed to GUESS how physics react at those speeds on ground?!

[Hankstar]

Obviously Vain's not a dev, that's why he's taking an educated guess at why you can't go 719+kph...e.g. that it would indeed require significant physics improvements (and, as suggested above, a lot of guess work on the handling of a supersonic race car) for it to work, even though it would be utterly pointless (in the realm of car simulation) :shrug:

But you never know - Scawen may well reply to this question...

[southamptonfc]

what are you gonna do at that speed anyway? lol car makers cant even imagine that number.. plus, even if a car could go that fast... then what? you cant do anything but stop.. if you would even live, aerodynamics would have to be insane at that speed..

(plus.. where'd you even find the room to go that fast?)
You can do 718 at Blackwood and easily make the corner at the end of the straight. but we will NEVER have a car that will GOOO that fast.. in life; so how are we even supposed to GUESS how physics react at those speeds on ground?!?)
Thrust SSC has broken the sound barrier. I will say again, I'm not asking for the physics to be changed!!! They actually seem to cope very well at 718 which is a credit to the engine. If anyone has actually tried messing around with these things they will know that the cars break before the physics does and it is great fun to see all that happen as a demo of how good the car modelling and physics really are.

[AndroidXP]

I think your statement imples that an FX-57 runs the same amount of physics cycles per second as a Pentium3.Yes, it does. LFS runs at a fixed rate of 100Hz with 20 sub samples per step for tyre physics, so you could say tyre physics run at 2000Hz.
The processor does not influence that at all. Otherwise people with better CPU's would have a benefit because their physics suddenly run more accurate. Also no replays would work, because each CPU would show different results.

Now, of course "we" aren't the devs but we know them for several years now and interrupting physics development for such "fun" (and completely unnecessary) things like increasing the speed barrier is one of the last things Scawen would do. I'm not too sure if he's really fond of the whole LFSTweak thingy either, so changing something for the sole purpose to please people who use a hack tool... I very much doubt that will happen. Ever.

[AndroidXP]

Thrust SSC has broken the sound barrier.He said car, not rocket with wheels tucked to it ;)

[southamptonfc]

Obviously Vain's not a dev, that's why he's taking an educated guess at why you can't go 719+kph...e.g. that it would indeed require significant physics improvements (and, as suggested above, a lot of guess work on the handling of a supersonic race car) for it to work, even though it would be utterly pointless (in the realm of car simulation) :shrug:

But you never know - Scawen may well reply to this question...
I know, I was just getting a bit annoyed with people saying it's a stupid idea and it wont work like they know the code inside out. Dumass's point about collision dection is the only sensible suggestion as to why there must be a reset speed and he made it without sounding like a know-it-all. Personally I think it might be there to stop cars flying off at stupid speeds when collisions cause the physics engine to break down and produce crazy forces, we've all had one of those where the car is sent flying.

[southamptonfc]

Yes, it does. LFS runs at a fixed rate of 100Hz with 20 sub samples per step for tyre physics, so you could say tyre physics run at 2000Hz.
The processor does not influence that at all. Otherwise people with better CPU's would have a benefit because their physics suddenly run more accurate. Also no replays would work, because each CPU would show different results.

Now, of course "we" aren't the devs but we know them for several years now and interrupting physics development for such "fun" (and completely unnecessary) things like increasing the speed barrier is one of the last things Scawen would do. I'm not too sure if he's really fond of the whole LFSTweak thingy either, so changing something for the sole purpose to please people who use a hack tool... I very much doubt that will happen. Ever.
That is very interesting, I didn't know that. However, there must be a point where a slow enough cpu will not be able to manage that amount of physics cyles. I would have thought that a good way to improve physics is to increase the cyles per second and might be done in S3.I never asked for the physics to be improved!!!!! Please understand that!I asked just 1 question. 'Please allow the car reset speed to be configurable' that's it.

[XCNuse]

because it is a stupid idea lol

what would we do at those speeds?.. honestly

[Bob Smith]

If the car is reset from moving more than 2m in one step on the physics then actually increasing the physics rate would lower the reset speed...

[southamptonfc]

Nice! Good point for a Pompey boy :) - just trying to alienate myself from everyone! :)

[southamptonfc]

because it is a stupid idea lol

what would we do at those speeds?.. honestly
You don't do much, maybe poo yourself? I generally try to hold onto the wheel and try to make the corner at the end of the straight. It's great fun and I think that is the point that many people are missing.

[AndroidXP]

If the car is reset from moving more than 2m in one step on the physics then actually increasing the physics rate would lower the reset speed...Err, no? If I'm not misunderstanding you, it would increase the reset speed, so it would be more than 718 km/h. Think of the extreme, if we only had one update per second, it would be very easy to drive more than two metres in that period. If we have more and more steps it gets harder (read: we need more speed) to travel more than two metres between two physics steps.

Besides that, aren't most car speed calculations done in m/s? If so, the value of (an arbitary chosen) 200m/s comes suspiciously close to 718km/h. The 2km/h difference may be due to rounding error.

[XCNuse]

lol i still dont get how you got that fast (you'll have to upload the tweak file or something, i just sit and burn rubber)

and the thing is, is that .. its unreal, thats why majority of people dont like it, because LFS is trying to represent something that would happen in life; and.. so, ya thats why lol

[southamptonfc]

The tweak file and setup are in the Mechanik thread

[dUmAsS]

Dumass's point about collision dection is the only sensible suggestion as to why there must be a reset speed and he made it without sounding like a know-it-all.
i win! :D i can make demos if needed! *wobbles off muttering to self*

Err, no? If I'm not misunderstanding you, it would increase the reset speed, so it would be more than 718 km/h.
thats correct, a faster frame rate = smaller time step (the amount of time to advance the physics simulation per step) so the car will go less distance in a single step.

its most likely due to the following reasons:

collision detection (i doubt LFS has continuous collision algorithms)
spring stabability (moving the suspension so far in a single step)
general forces (could cause the car "joint" or the main simulation to "explode")

[Blowtus]

much as I think it's an unnecessary suggestion, all these replies of 'the physics change at the speed of sound' crack me up. Like allowing a car to continue on with normal physics would somehow be less realistic than a giant hand of god resetting your car. Never seen that one occur at the speed of sound either! :)

[Shotglass]

i honestly dont see why theres an argument ... so lfs sets a limit to how fast you can go ... this is either an arbitrary number and it wont hurt physics at normal speeds one bit if the limit is removed so everybody would be happy or it its a limit imposed by the boundaries of the physics engine (problems occuring NOT physics getting wildly inaccurate because who cares if they do ? driving at such speeds with a car is inaccurate anyway) and the limit wont change ever

so what the hell are you arguing about ?

[Gunn]

Because you are and it doesn't make your oppinion any more important than anyone elses.No it doesn't, but it makes it just as important as your's.

[Bob Smith]

Err, no? If I'm not misunderstanding you, it would increase the reset speed, so it would be more than 718 km/h. Think of the extreme, if we only had one update per second, it would be very easy to drive more than two metres in that period. If we have more and more steps it gets harder (read: we need more speed) to travel more than two metres between two physics steps.
Ah yeah. I wasn't awake (still not now either). But that doesn't make me sound as smug. :p Dammit when people actually check up on the spiel that I type.

Besides that, aren't most car speed calculations done in m/s? If so, the value of (an arbitary chosen) 200m/s comes suspiciously close to 718km/h. The 2km/h difference may be due to rounding error.
Yep.

[Fonnybone]

Eh, just to make this clear, no LFS cars are able to attaint such speeds
therefore this is obviously a 'problem' for you because you are using a
tweaked car. Now, don't expect the devs to go out of their way to
help out since LFSTweak is not officially approved, it's merely tolerated.
I'm sure Scawen has a huge list of more important things to deal with.

[southamptonfc]

Yes ok mate, get off your high horse, you made the software.

I don't 'expect' anything of the devs or have a 'problem'.

I just asked a simple question and I said please.

So PLEASE everyone get the F@CK off my back.

[tristancliffe]

A simple question with no thought beforehand. You're on a high horse by thinking that a) it was a reasonable suggestion and b) that don't deserve to be shot down for suggesting it.

"Ask a stupid question and get told where to stick it"

[dUmAsS]

"Ask a stupid question and get told where to stick it"

i much prefer "Ask a stupid question and get a stupid reply" :)

[southamptonfc]

A simple question with no thought beforehand. You're on a high horse by thinking that a) it was a reasonable suggestion and b) that don't deserve to be shot down for suggesting it.

"Ask a stupid question and get told where to stick it"
The devs can tell me where to stick it, not you. I am a customer and paid the same money as you. I'm out of this now, you can reply and have the last word.

[tristancliffe]

Last Word!

Hurrah, no delimiting LFS, I win :D

[Hankstar]

TC, you oughta change your tag to Ming the Merciless :)

[maxwolfie!]

The devs can tell me where to stick it, not you. I am a customer and paid the same money as you. I'm out of this now, you can reply and have the last word.

<Scawen>

Stick it.

</Scawen>

[jtr99]

So PLEASE everyone get the F@CK off my back.

Do you play poker at all, SouthamptonFC? I think maybe I would really like to be in a poker game with you.

[Jakg]

The devs can tell me where to stick it, not you. I am a customer and paid the same money as you. I'm out of this now, you can reply and have the last word.actually, Android and Tristan Cliffe have paid 1.5x times what you have...

[Hatemaker]

NO doubt it would be fun, but seriously, I play this because it's a very good simulationof driving. And honestly, why would anyone be that beligerent when someone tells them "sorry, but the developers are busy people and ther are bigger things to do than this"? I think that a simple "that's cool" would have saficed instead of the "F**K YOU blah blah blah". I'm sorry, but south seems on the biggest high horse.

(Oh, and clown, if you wanna see how much better the LFS forum is about shit like that, check out hostileintent.org/forums )

I'm sure Android remembers how they are there, if that's the same Android XP.

[AndroidXP]

Yes, he is the same :D

[Hatemaker]

YAY! I don't know if you have my AIM or not, but when I get my grades back up, I'll hop on. Heh, this makes me wanna race with you now. But unfortunately, I want to bring up my schoolgrades before I start playing this again... it takes so much outta my time :)

[Fonnybone]

Yes ok mate, get off your high horse, you made the software.

I don't 'expect' anything of the devs or have a 'problem'.

I just asked a simple question and I said please.

So PLEASE everyone get the F@CK off my back.

WoW, we've all given you VALID reasons why LFS has this limit and
why it will surely stay that way. I don't know where you interpreted
wrong, i've posted as simply and honestly as i could. If you can't accept
this and need to use insulting and arrogant language then why did you
post on a public forum ?! Take a chill pill dude, no one is 'out to get you'.

:smash3d:

[Hankstar]

Tristan is :x

:D

[Becky Rose]

So many programmers in one thread. I'm a programmer too btw.

The interesting thing about programmers is that the more they post in internet forums the less they program. The two are directly related ... all programmers can confirm this oddity.

Therefore if somebody claims to be a programmer on a forum, they're probably a bad one.

I'm a bad programmer btw ;).

[afastest]

so you could say tyre physics run at 2000Hz.


Interesting, source on this?

[MAGGOT]

Last Word!

Hurrah, no delimiting LFS, I win :D

Well.. I know this is an old thread, but I didn't rehash it, and I have go to say.. That is the funniest thing I have EVER read. EVER. :D

[-DrftMstr-]

how about he hacks NFS... it's more in the arcade genre... leave LFS as it is...

[AndroidXP]

Interesting, source on this?
This post (http://forum.rscnet.org/showpost.php?p=2541439&postcount=8) in this thread (http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=217020). :tilt: