Lag/Latency

[danowat]

I think I am getting lag in LFS, I am not 100% sure if its me, or the server/others, but I want to check anyway.

I need to provide my ISP with some ping/tracert stats so they can troubleshoot it if need be.

Am I better off doing these on the master server? or on a few "game" servers?.

Either way does anyone have any IP address for the above so I can accomplise this.

Cheers

Dan,

[franky500]

normally best place to ping would be google imo. juse tracert google.com

Otherwise feel free to use 193.23.224.153 for your test (dedicated LFS Servers)

Just out of curiosity. whos ur ISP?

[danowat]

I could use google, but I would prefer to use the server/servers are may be causing my trouble, could be a routing problem.

I'll try the above IP, thanks.

The ISP is Eclipse, havent had any issue for many years, but a couple of weeks ago my old Linksys router went up in smoke, and I replaced it with a Netgear, it may be coincedental, but since last friday I "think" I have been encountering lag.

Any chance someone else could tracert that IP for me?, I am getting it fail here.

Dan,

[franky500]

tracert 193.23.224.153

Tracing route to 193.23.224.153 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 10 ms 6 ms 6 ms 10.174.0.1
2 7 ms 9 ms 8 ms gsr01-en.blueyonder.co.uk [62.30.144.193]
3 9 ms 21 ms 7 ms pc-62-30-250-49-ha.blueyonder.co.uk [62.30.250.4
9]
4 8 ms 9 ms 17 ms pc-62-30-250-18-ha.blueyonder.co.uk [62.30.250.1
8]
5 7 ms 7 ms 10 ms tele2-har-pos.telewest.net [194.117.136.26]
6 10 ms 7 ms 11 ms 194.117.136.173
7 8 ms 6 ms 9 ms fe0-1.xp.lon.rapidswitch.com [217.79.160.103]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 8 ms 9 ms 14 ms 193.23.224.153

Trace complete.

[danowat]

Cheers, pings ok, 15-20ms, only getting 3% packet loss, but the tracert has a problem at hop 5

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 200-100-200-110.dial-up.telesp.net.br [200.100.2
00.110]
2 16 ms 18 ms 17 ms 82.153.96.1
3 17 ms 17 ms 14 ms 81.5.191.217
4 17 ms 15 ms 16 ms ge0-1.linx.lon.rapidswitch.com [195.66.224.207]

5 * * * Request timed out.
6 15 ms 16 ms 15 ms 193.23.224.153

Trace complete.

edit : I see yours does too ;),

[t1ger]

I get disconnected a lot and have experienced quite a bit of lag lately. My ADSL is also through a Netgear router and have always had problems. I have done a tracert on that IP address from my work (just now) and it works. I will try it from home and see what I get from there, because my disconnections are starting to annoy me.

I am also going to try using the USB ADSL modem that I got with my connection, but I would expect a router to be better.

I will keep you posted with my results.

(PS I will have to look up my ISP as it my ADSL (512K) is through Utility Warehouse and they use a seperate ISP whose name I can not remember)

[the_angry_angel]

Try updating the firmware. A lot of netgear routers come with old firmware, which doesnt work particularly well. The DG834(g)'s for example usually comes with v2 firmware, and if I remember correctly theres now a 3.01 revision.

[t1ger]

Danowat, the "problem" you see at hop 5 is not a problem, it simply means that the router at the hop in the process does not respond to pings. This is normal practice for the internet.

Makes debugging things like this hard, though.

Tim

[franky500]

i get the problem at hop 8. must be something stopping it. But that one is not just you so its down to the packet loss i think.

I used to suffer alot from packet loss from my ISP never changed the modem. I think it was something to do with the router configeration (something to do with the upstream noise ratio i think) other than that not too sure. If ur suffering from packet loss at all though it sounds like it is something to do with the modem considering u just got a new one.

[danowat]

Ahh...you (tiger) were on the same server last night, the OLFSL server, someone said I was lagging, so I assumed i was, TBH, I don't know how to tell if I am or arent.

The router has got the latest firmware on it.

When I am in a server, how do I tell how MY connection is lagging, all the bars are bouncing all over the place and I cant tell who I am, and how bad it is.

Dan,

[t1ger]

Try updating the firmware. A lot of netgear routers come with old firmware, which doesnt work particularly well. The DG834(g)'s for example usually comes with v2 firmware, and if I remember correctly theres now a 3.01 revision.

There is indeed a 3.01 revision of firmware for the DG834G, and as yet I am on the one before this, 2.something. I will try this new version also.

Tim

[franky500]

could try doing a network debug while in the game (shift + F8 ) if every1 else shows as a fairly high rate then you can assume its you. If most seem low then assume it was that person last night.

[t1ger]

Ahh...you (tiger) were on the same server last night, the OLFSL server, someone said I was lagging, so I assumed i was, TBH, I don't know how to tell if I am or arent.

Dan,

I also am not sure if it is me or others that lag, but last night I had a massive 3-4 second lag, where everybody else dissappeared and then they came back again. Then about 10 seconds later, I disconnected without any warning. (apart from the big lag, of course :-) )

Tim

[danowat]

Yeah, I assumed that because I didnt disco, and others did my latency wasnt bad, but I want to be sure, I'll try the shift + F8 thing tonight and see what happens,

Thanks all.

Dan,

[t1ger]

could try doing a network debug while in the game (shift + F8 ) if every1 else shows as a fairly high rate then you can assume its you. If most seem low then assume it was that person last night.

I tried that network debug option, but last night when I disconnected, it showed nothing. It may be that I do not understand the output of the debug. Unfortunately I did not take a screenshot of the messages. I would have done if I had seen anything which looked like it could point to something, but it didn't.

Tim

[danowat]

Just had a sneaky peek here at work at this shift + F8 thingy, TBH I dont know what I am looking for on it.
The bars in the bottom left hand corner, I assume they are lag?, if so, am I the green one?, and I guess higher is worse?, so if I am higher than the rest I am laggy?.

Dan,

[t1ger]

I really don't know. Up until recently, I thought those bars at the bottom left were a graphic representation of the sound! I always thought it was strange that they kept moving even though I turned all the music off!! :pillepall

Tim

[franky500]

The network debug dispays a number next to the persons name above cars. You can ony see it from your own vehicle though i think. it should show below 0.25 i think anything above that would mean that either them or you have a high ping (depending on how many have it high ect...) there may be an easier way but i dont know much about it.

EDIT: yes those bars are lag but i dont know the exact way it works . Higher (taller) is worse. Normally when somebody is lagging or about to time out all the bars will rise and go red

[danowat]

I really don't know. Up until recently, I thought those bars at the bottom left were a graphic representation of the sound! I always thought it was strange that they kept moving even though I turned all the music off!! :pillepall

Tim

LMAO :D

@Franky

So, I can see if others are lagging using shift F8, but I can't see if I am? :shrug:

Dan,

[t1ger]

I do know that the number next to the other cars for me was around 0.07 and 0.05 for most of the time that I had it turned on. For the actual race I disabled network debug in case it put extra strain on anything and made things worse for other people.

Tim

[franky500]

Preety much. Its all guess work really. If all of the other people look like they have lag then it is more likely it is you rather than them. but if only one or 2 have the lag then its most likely them..

Also. is this all based off of a single server last night? if so i wouldnt really be worrying too much.

[franky500]

I do know that the number next to the other cars for me was around 0.07 and 0.05 for most of the time that I had it turned on. For the actual race I disabled network debug in case it put extra strain on anything and made things worse for other people.

Tim
that 0.07 and 0.05 ect would basically mean that you are not lagging and neither are they.

[danowat]

No, I have noticed it a couple of times, every server I have been on seems laggy, either I am lagging, or its just bad luck with my server choice.

Dan,

[t1ger]

Preety much. Its all guess work really. If all of the other people look like they have lag then it is more likely it is you rather than them. but if only one or 2 have the lag then its most likely them..

Also. is this all based off of a single server last night? if so i wouldnt really be worrying too much.

I know what you mean, and thanks for the help. However, I am still worrying, because these are the servers that the league is run on, so when I disconnect, it really hurts me. And we have run 12 races (10 events, 2 of them had two races) and I have disconnected from 5 of them.

This worries me. I am, of course, very glad, that this is the only thing in my life at the moment that worries me - could be worse.

Tim

[franky500]

i think that is the Server itself if its not just u disconnecting. If its just u then what is ur upload and download speed and how many ppl in the races?

[t1ger]

I do have to agree with you franky, however, it is difficult to prove anything as there were other racers on the server who did not disconnect and others that did. Most people stayed connected (there was about 15 people in total including host). I personally disconnected three times over the period of 1 hour, only once was in the middle of a race though. Then later I connected to another server with 3 other racers and stayed connected for the best part of 1 hour with no problems at all.

I want the problem to be something that is in my control, but I fear that it is out in the wild blue yonder of the mass of inter-connected routers and server they call the Internet.

Tim

[tristancliffe]

Afaik, the bars at the bottom work like this:

Each connection has two bars, and instanteneous one and an average over a few seconds (you can tell which is which by which one moves the most). The left two are the person at the top of the connection list (usually host iirc), you are the green one, and it's in the order of the connection list.

If I'm wrong (and this is from memory of what Scawen once said) then feel free to correct me.

[t1ger]

Afaik, the bars at the bottom work like this:

Each connection has two bars, and instanteneous one and an average over a few seconds (you can tell which is which by which one moves the most). The left two are the person at the top of the connection list (usually host iirc), you are the green one, and it's in the order of the connection list.

If I'm wrong (and this is from memory of what Scawen once said) then feel free to correct me.

Thanks Tristan, is it the smaller the bar the better or the other way around?

Tim

[B2B@300]

Smaller the better yes, also if you are lagging your bar (the green one) would be rising above everyone elses and turning red while all the others stay normal. If all the bars rise and turn red its someone else or the server I think :shrug:

[t1ger]

OK, thanks guys, lots of info there and things to try and things to monitor. Now I need to be at home to test. What a shame, more online racing... oh well :)

Tim

[t1ger]

OK, here is my tracert to that IP address:

Tracing route to 193.23.224.153 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.100.1
2 21 ms 20 ms 20 ms lo2.lon-th1dgw.uwclub.net [217.154.190.33]
3 20 ms 52 ms 24 ms f1-0.lon-gs1pbr.uwclub.net [217.154.140.254]
4 347 ms 457 ms 263 ms osm-g4-1.lon-th1br.mistral.net [217.154.71.2]
5 191 ms 21 ms 18 ms osm-g4-1.lon-gs1br.mistral.net [217.154.71.1]
6 116 ms 18 ms 19 ms ge-1-2-0.414.ar2.LON3.gblx.net [67.17.212.173]
7 21 ms 21 ms 20 ms so1-0-0-2488M.ar3.LON2.gblx.net [67.17.71.1]
8 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms tiscali-1.ar3.LON2.gblx.net [208.49.136.66]
9 19 ms 20 ms 20 ms so-3-1-0.lon22.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.80.30]
10 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms ge0-1.lon.rapidswitch.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.78.194]
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 22 ms 20 ms 23 ms 193.23.224.153
Trace complete.

This implies I go a long way to get to this server, could be part of the problem. The mistral.net ones seem to be the biggest problem. Hmmm, more testing.

Tim

[B2B@300]

This implies I go a long way to get to this server, could be part of the problem. The mistral.net ones seem to be the biggest problem. Hmmm, more testing.

:scratchch If I posted a tracert of that IP from my location, I think you would redifine "a long way" :D

From here I get about 420ms ping response to that IP and that in itself doesn't prevent me from racing or cause me to show any lag whatsoever to others :shy:

I think you will find lag issues come from other problem areas in your path, which tracert can help you find. e.g. an overloaded router which will cause lost pakets, another one could be noise (interference) on cetain segments of the signal path which can cause corrupt or lost pakets.

So if you have these types of problems, try gather as much info as possible (helps identify patterns e.g. at certain times of the day a particutlar router might be unable to cope) and then armed with that info contact your ISP tech support and see what they can do :thumb:

It does look like 217.154.71.2 is not performing well and that is definately something to highlight to your ISPs tech support.

[t1ger]

Thanks B2B@300

I have upgraded my routers firmware (for what its worth). Still more things I can try though.

Tim