Should LFS open up for [high quality] Add-On Tracks

[George Kuyumji]

I know when people read the word "mod" they think about the rFactor mod situation with thousands of mod out there one worse then the other.

But there are some modding groups (idt for rfactor or GPLEA for GPL) that can really produce excellent work that even tops the work of the professionells. That dont bring out a new version of there content every couple of weeks that dillute and make everything complicated.

What these groups like GPLEA did was kind of a "controlled modding" where quality stands over quantity.

There is alot of talent out there in the LFS community and it is wasted, think about the Nürburgring Nordschleife or Spa in rFactor, done by hugely talented enthusiasts in the community, talent that LFS has aswell, and all these tracks rFactor has LFS could have aswell, maybe in even better quality.

But the danger is allowing thousands of people and giving the tools to them to create tracks in LFS, we would have very quickly 5 different versions of Monte Carlo, 3 versions of Spa etc. LFS would be a mess like rFactor.

But what if there would be only 1 add on Team in the community. Only that one team would get unofficial support and the tools to create tracks for LFS.

That exclusive modding Team would consist of the brightest, most talented hand-picked artists from within the community, who only produce quality content for LFS, mainly tracks. There is enough talent out there to produce any type of track in the world for LFS in brilliant quality, if its done in an organized, protected and quality assuring way.

[UncleBenny]

Not going to happen any time soon. Being brought up many times before, no point going through the argument again.

[MR_B]

I strongly agree with you. With all this talk of LFS losing its appeal and beginning to age badly. Now would be the time to say "look, we have a great amount of talent here that's being wasted. Let's utilize it."


However, can I suggest one way to moderate the volume of content.

Everyone gets the tools to create their own content. But they have to submit it for consideration. And only the best quality mods make it onto the multiplayer lists. For the rest of the community to use.

[-YR-BDINGU]

I agree with post #1 and #3, LFS is a great game. But it does lack content understandably. There is ALOT of talent out there that could really bring people back to the game, and probably bring alot of new players too. Even though its not likely it will happen, if this does, just have mods restricted to people with S2. $$$$$

[Wilko868]

No.

LFS would be ruined by modding IMO. It would make online life like LFS, with so many mods banding around, it's difficult to get all the cars and tracks you need. It's also a hassle on people like me who have tiny hard drives

[Not Sure]

in before the lock!

[bbman]

[...]

iRacing seems to manage fine without mods and with even less usable content than LfS... Both developers declared they would not (yet) open their game to mods, and yet I haven't seen you suggesting mods on the iRacing-forums...

Why here then?

[Dajmin]

I'm going to repeat what I say every time this comes up, only because I don't have a C&P alert for it or a web page to direct people to.

First of all, opening up to modders.
Since the base content isn't finished yet and physics updates could still be added at any time, there's no point making a mod that feels right because that might change with the next patch. You might get extra features added that the mod doesn't take into account which would completely break it - the clutch heat would have been one of them. No setting for clutch strength on your mod would mean back to the drawing board.
Imagine that with more serious changes to things like suspension, aero or damage models. I know that if I'd spent a lot of time making something I'd want it to work and be annoyed if it didn't. It happens a few times over and suddenly you have a decent mod team refusing to make any more because it's not worth the hassle.

Mod content approval.
While I like this idea for the future, it does have some issues. Who do you submit this content to? Scawen? A forum mod? What do they do with it? A random person? You don't just GIVE that sort of content away because every mod team wants the associated kudos for making good stuff and there's nothing to stop someone claiming it as their own.
Voting systems are only good in the short term when there's not much content. I can already tell you that there'd be a zillion different Nurburgrings on there, each with varying levels of accuracy and nobody voting has enough experience on the real track to say whether it's a good match or not. So it'll all come down to how well someone can drive round it, whether it's accurate or not. One person will do a really quick laptime on one and rate it high, another will have trouble with it and vote it low, even if it's the best version of the track ever modelled.

[UncleBenny]

iRacing seems to manage fine without mods and with even less usable content than LfS... Both developers declared they would not (yet) open their game to mods, and yet I haven't seen you suggesting mods on the iRacing-forums...

Why here then?

I think that's because LFS has been around for a while and has gone without any new content(other than the FBM) for a long time. iRacing is still somewhat fresh, if it sat for a couple years with no new cars or tracks you'd see plenty of complaining over there too I bet. And it does seem like iRacing is coming out with new stuff on a somewhat regular basis.

[Shadowww]

NO.
S15/240SX/AE86/Lancer/whatever with XRT/FZ5 physics = FAIL.

[funnybone2]

Nope, with modding eligible, making Hacks would be much easier.

[senn]

pointless repeated ad nauseum question is pointless.

+1 to get thread closed/deleted

[PaulH]

It makes no sense opening LFS to modding until it is declared finished just in case of any incompatibilities with future patches. I wouldn't want my hard work being incompatible in six months time...

Then there is the question "will it be good for LFS (and not just individual people)?" or would it kill LFS with mass amounts of crappy mods that overshadow the few good ones?
If modding was an option then we would definitely need better server "-flags" and filters so that we can disable mods from the server list and order the servers based on the name of the mod.
Also the ability to download and auto-install the mod content direct from the server (as this saves time sourcing the mod else where - I'm lazy like that).

I'm not too bothered either way as long as I can filter out the modded servers if modding is allowed.

Modding suggestions got a lot of opposition in the past so it will be interesting to see what the common stance is now that LFS is apparently "dying"... due to peoples impatience with patches I must add. :schwitz:

[BurnOut69]

It makes no sense opening LFS to modding until it is declared finished just in case of any incompatibilities with future patches. I wouldn't want my hard work being incompatible in six months time...


Thats the exact thing. How hard is that to understand?

[StableX]

I don't want to see modding but I'd love to see some brand new locations (tracks) but would hate to think that Eric would need to feel flustered as a result to the extent his first public post has to be a diss to the community ;)

[EliteAti]

Mods specially approved by Scavier? :shrug:

[Flame CZE]

Mods specially approved by Scavier? :shrug:
I don't think Scavier need any new people / mods to LFS at the moment.

[bunder9999]

pointless repeated ad nauseum question is pointless.

+1 to get thread closed/deleted

++

i could swear i saw a thread with this exact title last week. :shrug:

[George Kuyumji]

Please everybody I dont meant 'mods' like in rFactor, I mean mainly real life add-on TRACKS for LFS, no Physic mods, no car mods

Made by only 1 great modding Team in high quality only with one new track (1 version) every couple of months or so - no modding madness, no physic mods, no cars mods

[duke_toaster]

I strongly agree with you. With all this talk of LFS losing its appeal and beginning to age badly. Now would be the time to say "look, we have a great amount of talent here that's being wasted. Let's utilize it."

However, can I suggest one way to moderate the volume of content.

Everyone gets the tools to create their own content. But they have to submit it for consideration. And only the best quality mods make it onto the multiplayer lists. For the rest of the community to use.

Short answer : I support the third part in principle, although using generic tools (EG 3dsmax) making mainly fictional stuff. However, this is unlikely to happen and would require some careful consideration. By making it in, it would be included in the main LFS file.

George's Idea has one major issue that would need answering : how would they get the licences?

[Inouva]

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r136/Romulus32/ibtl.gif

[DeKo]

Its literally impossible to find a decent race server these days, so it wouldnt be too bad.

[aceracer]

I don't really understand how people can get bored with the content. Maybe I'm too old and slow, but I still haven't mastered any combo fully and I've been at this for 1.5 years now. Give me a car/track and 4 racers more or less my speed and I don't care where I race or how often I've done it.

So frankly, I think people just have short attention spans. I prefer to be good at 1 combo rather than crap at 15.

How many combos are you within .5 secs of the WR?

I think LFS is for dedicated racers. If you are 2 secs away from the WR and already looking for new tracks and cars maybe you're just not serious enough about it...

aceracer

P.S.: Yes I know this doesn't apply to everyone, and yes there are very very fast drivers out there who also get bored with LFS, but I would estimate that 90% is due to goldfishlike attention span with NFS tendencies :D

[BOSCHO]

agree.. we need really new tracks :thumb:
i drive in GT Evolution on Nurburgring aaand its great so if this track and other tracks are in lfs is gonna be O.O ... great :scratchch

[DeadWolfBones]

George has been around forever and seen his share of these threads, so I don't think he's suggesting the typical mods these threads are usually about. He has a point with mod groups like GPLEA, which produce content that is consistent with and of the same quality as the original content. Such a thing COULD be a positive addition to the LFS community (provided it's only tracks), but I don't think the devs will ever go for it, based on their past reactions. :shrug:

[hyntty]

Why not if it brought more people (new or old) online. I was looking for an interesting looking combo in the server list, but I had no luck and decided to go watch Emmerdale instead.

[ChristijaNL]

Please everybody I dont meant 'mods' like in rFactor, I mean mainly real life add-on TRACKS for LFS, no Physic mods, no car mods

Made by only 1 great modding Team in high quality only with one new track (1 version) every couple of months or so - no modding madness, no physic mods, no cars mods

This sounds good. I think there are plenty of exceptional talents to be found within this community to make some quality tracks, perhaps under the guidance of Eric or someone who is close to the developers.

I cant think of many things i would like to see changed in lfs, but i would like to see some new tracks added on a more frequent base!

[Furiously-Fast]

NO.
S15/240SX/AE86/Lancer/whatever with XRT/FZ5 physics = FAIL.


I don't think MagnoT sees that.... :x

[5haz]

I'd love to see it.

When LFS is finished that is. :thumb:

[Deesiel]

I don't really understand how people can get bored with the content. Maybe I'm too old and slow, but I still haven't mastered any combo fully and I've been at this for 1.5 years now. Give me a car/track and 4 racers more or less my speed and I don't care where I race or how often I've done it.

So frankly, I think people just have short attention spans. I prefer to be good at 1 combo rather than crap at 15.

How many combos are you within .5 secs of the WR?

I think LFS is for dedicated racers. If you are 2 secs away from the WR and already looking for new tracks and cars maybe you're just not serious enough about it...

aceracer

P.S.: Yes I know this doesn't apply to everyone, and yes there are very very fast drivers out there who also get bored with LFS, but I would estimate that 90% is due to goldfishlike attention span with NFS tendencies :D

+1

I've only been on LFS for a short while and have already seen way too much complaining about lack of content. I guess I can kinda see how people who have been on LFS since the beginning may be bored, but for a newbie the current content is nearly overwhelming if you really think about it. On the surface it seems like there are only 7 tracks, but with all the different variations and reversals, there are really 50 tracks (not including autocross)! Combine that with 20 cars and that's nearly 1000 different combos (I say nearly because there are cars that aren't suited for rallycross...) Sure, many of the combos are very similar, but as aceracer said, How many are you within .5 sec of WR?
Adding more content/mods may attract previous LFS racers to return, but I doubt it would do much to attract new racers to LFS. To a new LFS racer (a reasonable person who doesn't have the attention span of a goldfish), there is plenty of content as is.

[xaotik]

As I see it, the community cannot answer your question (although one wasn't actually posed, re-reading your opening post) and so far a negative answer towards any form of modding, for the time being, has been given in the past.

Keeping in mind that nothing has changed in the meantime that would facilitate the advance of modding, I doubt the answer would be any different and if there was some radical change I guess we'd find out about it regardless.

I seem to remember that offers have been made in the past to form some elite squad of supermodders, perhaps even with more tangible (as far as that's possible) material - or so was claimed.

[loopingz]

LFS is good because it is finely tweaked, tuned, equilibrated, well coded. There is already a bunch of combination, not yet all type of cars but a good bunch. And as long as setup are widely open there is no need to add more cars. Just let the Devs work please.

edit: now that the first post has been edited, yes controlled new tracks could be a plus, even if, I think it will not happen.

[anbiddulph]

ask the devs, the answer now is no, the answer at s3 final is maybe

no one can do anything about it really

[UncleBenny]

+1

I've only been on LFS for a short while and have already seen way too much complaining about lack of content. I guess I can kinda see how people who have been on LFS since the beginning may be bored, but for a newbie the current content is nearly overwhelming if you really think about it. On the surface it seems like there are only 7 tracks, but with all the different variations and reversals, there are really 50 tracks (not including autocross)! Combine that with 20 cars and that's nearly 1000 different combos (I say nearly because there are cars that aren't suited for rallycross...) Sure, many of the combos are very similar, but as aceracer said, How many are you within .5 sec of WR?
Adding more content/mods may attract previous LFS racers to return, but I doubt it would do much to attract new racers to LFS. To a new LFS racer (a reasonable person who doesn't have the attention span of a goldfish), there is plenty of content as is.

I thought the same thing a year ago about people wanting new content. At some point though, most people do get to a point where the current tracks/cars will get old. Even I feel like I'm getting to that point after 2 years of playing. Its likely that taking a break for a while will get me back into LFS at some point though.

And for the whole you haven't mastered every combo thing, this is true. But a lot of people aren't hotlappers, and just don't enjoy that part of LFS, so hotlapping every single combo isn't really an option for everyone.

I also agree that new content will not attract new people, and you are right it would bring some old people back, at least for a period of time.

[bbman]

I think that's because LFS has been around for a while and has gone without any new content(other than the FBM) for a long time. iRacing is still somewhat fresh, if it sat for a couple years with no new cars or tracks you'd see plenty of complaining over there too I bet. And it does seem like iRacing is coming out with new stuff on a somewhat regular basis.

Still, is that a reason to take the countless, quite clear refusals of Scavier any less serious than iRacing's EULA?

And the stuff from iRacing is of absolutely no relevance as you can't use it - unless you buy it (ironically not even then in half the cases)...

[UncleBenny]

Still, is that a reason to take the countless, quite clear refusals of Scavier any less serious than iRacing's EULA?

And the stuff from iRacing is of absolutely no relevance as you can't use it - unless you buy it (ironically not even then in half the cases)...

Oh I'm not saying that LFS should open up for user-made content. In fact, I'm pretty against it as I think it would be a mess. All I'm saying is that is why you see complaining on the LFS forums and not iRacing, which is what the post I replied to mentioned.

[S14 DRIFT]

Been gone over many times before.


And no, it shouldn't. :shrug:

[George Kuyumji]

iRacing seems to manage fine without mods and with even less usable content than LfS... Both developers declared they would not (yet) open their game to mods, and yet I haven't seen you suggesting mods on the iRacing-forums...

Why here then?

What does this have to do with me and iRacing. Why should iRacing have add-on tracks when new content comes out in great quality every couple of weeks anyway. There are alot of things that I'm asking for in the iRacing Forums that are much better done in LFS like clutch modelling, Leagues etc. iRacing doesnt miss tracks, iRacing misses a huge bunch of other things, but what LFS is missing is real life tracks, and it could have it, as licenses and development are expensive, there is a big amount of talented people in the community, which if there work could be organised and directed into one common direction could bring the finest versions of the real life tracks out.


George's Idea has one major issue that would need answering : how would they get the licences?

Modding has always been a grey area regarding licenses, like all the real life versions of tracks for rFactor are not licensed.


I don't really understand how people can get bored with the content. Maybe I'm too old and slow, but I still haven't mastered any combo fully and I've been at this for 1.5 years now. Give me a car/track and 4 racers more or less my speed and I don't care where I race or how often I've done it.

So frankly, I think people just have short attention spans. I prefer to be good at 1 combo rather than crap at 15.

How many combos are you within .5 secs of the WR?

I think LFS is for dedicated racers. If you are 2 secs away from the WR and already looking for new tracks and cars maybe you're just not serious enough about it...

aceracer

P.S.: Yes I know this doesn't apply to everyone, and yes there are very very fast drivers out there who also get bored with LFS, but I would estimate that 90% is due to goldfishlike attention span with NFS tendencies :D

I'm not a Goldfish with NFS tendencies :scratchch And I'm also not within 0,5 sec of the WR. You say like as long as somebody is not within 0,5 sec of the WR he shouldnt talk on the matter and is not a dedicated racer.
But take the BMW F1 car out on any track, Aston or Blackwood, dont you think the car is awesome, for me its the best F1 car made in any sim ever, its a blast, and everything it does seems comprehensible, when you made a mistake you know exactly what you have done wrong and if you nail a corner it feels awesome, for the first time in a commercially available Sim an F1 car feels great.

But then you take this car on like Aston and you think, yeah this track is fun, but I want to hustle the car around the streets of Monaco, the LFS tracks doesnt do the car justice. You want to take the LFS F1 car around Monaco, Spa, Suzuka, you want to take the LX4 up the hill at Brands Hatch or a multiclass car race on the Nordschleife. We are missing out on these things and there is alot more potential in LFS then we see now.

George has been around forever and seen his share of these threads, so I don't think he's suggesting the typical mods these threads are usually about. He has a point with mod groups like GPLEA, which produce content that is consistent with and of the same quality as the original content. Such a thing COULD be a positive addition to the LFS community (provided it's only tracks), but I don't think the devs will ever go for it, based on their past reactions. :shrug:

Thanks. I would really hate to see LFS going down the rFactor route, rFactor has become the synonym for modding gone wrong. But modding can do alot of positive things for a Sim if its done in a controlled and organised fashion. I think physics or cars should not be played around with, it would be a mess, disrupt development and hardly anybody could do the cars or physics better then the devs anyway, but adding real life Tracks done properly by a dedicated and great programming Team from within the community with ties to the devs, and if its done in the right way, with the right group of people it would elevate LFS.

[S14 DRIFT]

I do believe that a well mapped Nordschleife would boost LFS sales 10-fold....

Imagine the TBO's and the GTR's racing around as part of a 2 hour Endurance race with multiclass.. that'd be the only thing that I really wish LFS would have...

As for LFS modding, well.. yeah as George said.. it should be left to the devs. Leave the modding to the textureres and sound makers

[tiagolapa]

I do believe that a well mapped Nordschleife would boost LFS sales 10-fold....

Imagine the TBO's and the GTR's racing around as part of a 2 hour Endurance race with multiclass.. that'd be the only thing that I really wish LFS would have...

As for LFS modding, well.. yeah as George said.. it should be left to the devs. Leave the modding to the textureres and sound makers

Hey, don't make me dream. I love the track, unfortunately I have to drive it in rfactor. In LFS would be sooooo much better

[S14 DRIFT]

If I really want it, I'll play it on GTR Evo or something, I wouldn't touch rFactor, even though the physics are quite similar.

Maybe one day, who knows. :)

[Stiggie]

NO.
S15/240SX/AE86/Lancer/whatever with XRT/FZ5 physics = FAIL.


You used to mod car models yourself.. why are you even speaking in these kinds of topics?

And why did you add me to your friend list. I'm still wondering why i accepted it.

[aceracer]

Hey, no offense here to anyone, I didn't mean to say that anyone wishing for a new track wasn't a serious racer or didn't have the right to speak.

Let me try an analogy. I used to play Pac-Man and Gyruss and Ghost and Goblins (and a few others :)) in the arcades. I would spend months, maybe years playing the same game over and over and over, perfecting it, getting hiscores, simply enjoying it.

These days I've been collecting arcade and console games for well over 15 years. I have over 40.000 of them.

So when I fire up the arcade machine, when there's friends over and a few beers, we play every game 5 mins. Then the next ... then the next ... and so on.

Fun? yeah! Necessary? No. If I just had a Galaga machine we'd have the same fun, we'd learn the game much better and we'd become much better at it. The experience would be much more intensive.

Maybe that makes sense to some - I understand that people look for new experiences.

Just tried to say: To me LFS has enough content right now to keep me going for years! No boredom in sight!

Cheers

aceracer

[Gil07]

NoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNo
NoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNo
NoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNo
NoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNo

i

[Shadowww]

You used to mod car models yourself.. why are you even speaking in these kinds of topics?

And why did you add me to your friend list. I'm still wondering why i accepted it.Cause I am not modelling MASSEEV ZOOORST EXHAUSTS and TEH INTERCOOLAZ!!111 on non-turbo FZ5.

Also, I hate things like UBERWINGZ on 240bhp XRT.

Only things that I like to have is no spoiler for XRT / RB4 / FXO (but no-spoiler RB4 is with default exhaust not with 10" one) and open lights for XRG/XRT (cause they are meant to be open, look:)
http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=79930

[The Very End]

Hey, no offense here to anyone, I didn't mean to say that anyone wishing for a new track wasn't a serious racer or didn't have the right to speak.

Let me try an analogy. I used to play Pac-Man and Gyruss and Ghost and Goblins (and a few others :)) in the arcades. I would spend months, maybe years playing the same game over and over and over, perfecting it, getting hiscores, simply enjoying it.

These days I've been collecting arcade and console games for well over 15 years. I have over 40.000 of them.

So when I fire up the arcade machine, when there's friends over and a few beers, we play every game 5 mins. Then the next ... then the next ... and so on.

Fun? yeah! Necessary? No. If I just had a Galaga machine we'd have the same fun, we'd learn the game much better and we'd become much better at it. The experience would be much more intensive.

Maybe that makes sense to some - I understand that people look for new experiences.

Just tried to say: To me LFS has enough content right now to keep me going for years! No boredom in sight!

Cheers

aceracer

Well writte post there mate :)
Yeah, good old arcade times, remember driving that USA Nascar game like probally 200 times at least, and it only got 3 tracks ;)

But, even if I wanted to somewhat agree I can't. The pickup fun / addicting feeling you can get while playing arcade games does not apply on me when playing LFS. I surely loves it, and in start it was _TEH_ shit. But as time goes on, the same enviroments (tracks) starts to be borring. I can join a server and have great fun for 30 min - 1 hour, but then my interest wears off and I have to wait some days or a week before I want to touch it again.
Maybe it's a healthy thing, to do get obsessed by games, but I'll trust you this, give me some new tracks and I would be glued to LFS the rest of the month!

[Zen321]

I think allowing one team to develop parallel upgrades for LFS would be extremely good, but I don't think the devs are up for this.

For example, look at the LFS RallyPack... It was supposed to be in development three years ago by a team, and in later interview with Victor, we learned that the project was dropped.

Three questions arise with this idea:
- How can you choose the right teal to do the job? The devs and the new team will obviously have different goals (including real-life tracks/how an official upgrade team would be considered in respect to the licensing legislation?).
- How will the devs be sure that the team won't suffer leak of the source code (that coule be sold/picked up by other developpers to upgrade their own product)?
- What return expectation would the new team get? Free, passionate work is good, but we can see what happened to the CTRA team (great job during those years btw). No material returns = less incentive to produce and less incentive to produce over time.

[richard dk]

iRacing seems to manage fine without mods and with even less usable content than LfS... Both developers declared they would not (yet) open their game to mods, and yet I haven't seen you suggesting mods on the iRacing-forums...

Why here then?

You sounds silly.

Can`t George have an opinion on LFS who`s differs from iRacing?

I`m not for modding, but did you think about that LFS is OLD and iRacing is NEW? Mods suggestion only after 6 months of iRacing?.. :D Lets talk about it in 5 years time..

I`m not driving LFS anymore (apart from last thursday) and I dont HATE LFS (or the guys who is driving it) even i`m into iRacing ATM.

[richard dk]

I don't really understand how people can get bored with the content. Maybe I'm too old and slow, but I still haven't mastered any combo fully and I've been at this for 1.5 years now.

No you can`t understand that because you have only been here since 2007. Thought about the guys who has raced it since 2002/03? Lets talk about it 4 or 5 years time from now on, ok?

I didn`t answered you because i`m not satiesfied with LFS, I answered you because you can`t understand why SOME can get bored by it. Ok if we gonna talk about it we should maybe only count from S2 in 2005 and then i`m still almost 2 years ahead of you.. :D

I don`t wanna complain about LFS, i`m sure it has a bright future...

[Shadowww]

Since 02/03 we got:
MRT
UF1
BF1
FBM
RAC
UFR
XFR
FXR
XRR
FZR
FOX
FO8

Not enough?

Oh, forgot:
Kyoto ring
Westhill
Aston

[aceracer]

Ok if we gonna talk about it we should maybe only count from S2 in 2005 and then i`m still almost 2 years ahead of you.. :D

I don`t wanna complain about LFS, i`m sure it has a bright future...

I guess some people get bored with things nd others don't :)

I've been driving around the same cart track all my life - still don't get bored of it - and I'm old, PCs didn't even exist when I started with that! So we're not even talking yars here, we're talking decades! I've also played Pac-Man all my life and still I'm not bored with it (ok I don't play every day anymore :))

If I race someone the same speed as me I don't care where I race, it's the actual racing, hustling, drafting, outbraking I enjoy. Give me any car and track and give it to me every day of my life - I won't get bored of it.

aceracer

[Dajmin]

I think the difference is that the people who have been around since 2003 already understand the LFS progress and don't expect updates every 5 seconds. With the rate companies crank out games and sequels and premium DLC, people are assuming that every project should be that way and ignore the fact that it's a labour of love not a money-making business model.

[5haz]

The reason why I would like to see LFS moddable is so that I could actually put the cars into it that I wanted to drive, I know I could do that in Rfactor but the opportunity of having LFS versions of some of the cars in Rfactor with LFS physics is very interesting to me.

Cause I am not modelling MASSEEV ZOOORST EXHAUSTS and TEH INTERCOOLAZ!!111 on non-turbo FZ5.

Also, I hate things like UBERWINGZ on 240bhp XRT.



That doesn't necessarily have to happen. :really:

People don't just mod roads cars you know.

And the Spoiler on the XRT is hardly huge.

Ignoramus. :really:

[Shadowww]

And the Spoiler on the XRT is hardly huge.

Ignoramus. :really:I meaned ricy mod which adds XRR / J2 HIN spoiler on XRT :really:

[richard dk]

Since 02/03 we got:
MRT
UF1
BF1
FBM
RAC
UFR
XFR
FXR
XRR
FZR
FOX
FO8

Not enough?

Oh, forgot:
Kyoto ring
Westhill
Aston


You joined in 2008.. :D Lets talk about it later.. :D
Maybe it`s enogh for you, but it`s not for me.
Since 2005 we got no new tracks, thats 4 year this july.
There has been two new cars since 2005 FBM and BF1.
It`s boring for me...it`s not boring for you..
You don`t need to defend LFS for me, I don`t complaining at all, I just writes the facts who matters to me, ok?
I`m not a guy who is slamming a game, if I`m not satiesfied I just find another game in the mean time. A lot of people could learn by this. If you don`t like what you sees, move on...

[Shadowww]

You joined in 2008.. :D Lets talk about it later.. :D
Maybe it`s enogh for you, but it`s not for me.
Since 2005 we got no new tracks, thats 4 year this july.
There has been two new cars since 2005 FBM and BF1.
It`s boring for me...it`s not boring for you..
You don`t need to defend LFS for me, I don`t complaining at all, I just writes the facts who matters to me, ok?
I`m not a guy who is slamming a game, if I`m not satiesfied I just find another game in the mean time. A lot of people could learn by this. If you don`t like what you sees, move on...
You got new track since 2005...

[DoC_uk]

If I race someone the same speed as me I don't care where I race, it's the actual racing, hustling, drafting, outbraking I enjoy. Give me any car and track and give it to me every day of my life - I won't get bored of it.

aceracer


Exactly , couldnt agree more !

Think that statement says it all

[The Very End]

A combo is hardly a track ;)
Well, maybe I just have been here too long, I started to play back in 02 or 03, then I registred on forum later in 04 :shrug: The updates seemed to happen more often earlier than they happen now, but maybe that is just my immagination.

However, really curious if we are going to get a anouncment about possebilities for new tracks this year.

[Gil07]

Seriously, what is it with all the "LFS sucks" threads lately... Just let Scavier do their work like they always have, and have had so much success. I'm pretty sure there will be some nice surprises soon :)

[Chrisuu01]

Seriously, what is it with all the "LFS sucks" threads lately... Just let Scavier do their work like they always have, and have had so much success. I'm pretty sure there will be some nice surprises soon :)

I cense a huge suprise coming up actualy.
I only dont know what and when.

Lets juts hope they come up with some kind of track thats basiclyset in forrest or something real technical

[chunkyracer]

Modding has always been a grey area regarding licenses, like all the real life versions of tracks for rFactor are not licensed.
The question is that none of those tracks or any of the modding content of Rfactor is conected or supported in an oficial way by the creators of the game. No track owner or car company is willing to take the time to go after some anonymous modder, but that doesn´t mean they will not do it against a software company or game creators that are making money from selling their games. Which means that any kind of content that has a real life counterpart, couldn´t have official support by the devs, therefore it wouldn´t be possible to control what is released and by whom, ending with the same disavantages that RFactor has, and that, I think, is not what this community wants from LFS.

[richard dk]

You got new track since 2005...

No! A new config is not a new track for me, maybe it is for you..

[joshdifabio]

The question is that none of those tracks or any of the modding content of Rfactor is conected or supported in an oficial way by the creators of the game. No track owner or car company is willing to take the time to go after some anonymous modder, but that doesn´t mean they will not do it against a software company or game creators that are making money from selling their games. Which means that any kind of content that has a real life counterpart, couldn´t have official support by the devs, therefore it wouldn´t be possible to control what is released and by whom, ending with the same disavantages that RFactor has, and that, I think, is not what this community wants from LFS.
Very good point.

[erfrag]

Please everybody I dont meant 'mods' like in rFactor, I mean mainly real life add-on TRACKS for LFS, no Physic mods, no car mods

Made by only 1 great modding Team in high quality only with one new track (1 version) every couple of months or so - no modding madness, no physic mods, no cars mods


people need to read and pay attention. i can't believe how many posts i was skimming through suggesting/arguing mods and not tracks.

tracks would be awesome, but there would have to be some sort of submission system like mentioned previously in this thread. the thing i absolutely hate about rfactor that was mentioned in the OP is in some cases there are literally dozens of the same track! and i'm not talking about different layouts either.

i think it would be amazing to take to Nürburgring with the quality of the physics in this game. the dirty nasty things i'd do to drive the BF1 or FBM on the ring....

[bbman]

What does this have to do with me and iRacing. Why should iRacing have add-on tracks when new content comes out in great quality every couple of weeks anyway. There are alot of things that I'm asking for in the iRacing Forums that are much better done in LFS like clutch modelling, Leagues etc. iRacing doesnt miss tracks, iRacing misses a huge bunch of other things, but what LFS is missing is real life tracks, and it could have it, as licenses and development are expensive, there is a big amount of talented people in the community, which if there work could be organised and directed into one common direction could bring the finest versions of the real life tracks out.

If you'd have read my second post, you'd know I wasn't asking because of the content, but why you thought it would be a good idea to bring this up when the Devs CLEARLY stated NUMEROUS TIMES they won't go that way, not for a long time? Why respect their words any less than that of other people? Or do you think if you'd just ask hard enough, they'll suddenly change their mind?

[senn]

agree with bbman.

[George Kuyumji]

If you'd have read my second post, you'd know I wasn't asking because of the content, but why you thought it would be a good idea to bring this up when the Devs CLEARLY stated NUMEROUS TIMES they won't go that way, not for a long time? Why respect their words any less than that of other people? Or do you think if you'd just ask hard enough, they'll suddenly change their mind?

Because its a topic for discussion. I wasnt in the other discussions about this which mainly were about modding physics and cars anyway - what this is not about. I dont see how this Thread forces you to participate in it if you dont have no interest. First you was kind of like why dont you discuss iRacing, then you want to make this thread end. Just stay out of it if you dont care about it.

[Tailhappy]

...Or do you think if you'd just ask hard enough, they'll suddenly change their mind?

Might as well get in on the fun and give my $0.02...

Like every business, your decisions are based to some extent on customer feedback as long as you're looking to generate revenue. So if you see post after post of people wanting to contribute for free, and it would result in increased sales, it lends credibility to the argument.

And to re-emphasize, the OP wasn't talking about mods (which most of us wouldn't be for), just using the talent on tap to create new officially approved tracks. And I don't think he meant it to be LFS-bashing as he was accused of.

For me personally, the desire is to have real-life tracks. The unfortunate thing is that it's apparently cost-prohibitive to license a track. Which sadly leaves me stuck going back to GT3 to get my Nurburgring fix.........

[George Kuyumji]

btw chunkyracer Microsoft did it also with FSX regarding licensing, they officially do not support or make advertising with the add-on planes or helicopters, but they supported strongly others to do them.

I think it gets underrated what an impact real life versions of tracks would have on LFS, when the BMW F1 came out for rFactor and LFS at the same time people had the choice between driving it with crap physics on all real life versions of F1 tracks, or have good physics on fantasy tracks. Too many people choose rFactor over fantasy tracks. I know alot of current LFS users do not care whether a track is realistic or not, but for potenial customers it is very very important, its as important as realistic cars. The netcode in LFS is better, the damage model is better, the physics is better, if people could drive the F1 car in LFS on all real F1 tracks that would be a major selling point for LFS. Or the GT cars around Le Mans, there is an ocean of possibilities to improve the LFS experience, and its not car modding physics etc. its the tracks.

[joshdifabio]

... I know alot of current LFS users do not care whether a track is realistic or not, but for potenial customers it is very very important, its as important as realistic cars ...
From my experience I would actually say that a lot of experienced LFS'ers would very much like to see some real-world tracks in LFS, largely because of the somewhat narrow range of choices we have at the moment.

This isn't a dig at Eric, but with one person designing every track in the game we're always going to have fairly limited variability in the type of layout we see. For example, currently pretty much every track we have, with the exception of KY1, contains a chicane.

[duke_toaster]

It's difficult to think of real life circuits that don't have chicanes though ;)

[5haz]

Indeed the ability to create tracks for LFS would be nice.

Brands Hatch please. :)

[NightShift]

I'm not sure Scavier can be persuaded to change their no mod policy.

When they read these kind of threads, especially when they're NOT started by an 8 yo who's got his S2 license less than 8 minutes ago, I suppose they should at least acknowledge somehow the burning desire the community has for more content (maybe they will :scratchch)

As a compromise, I'd suggest relaxing their 'stage policy' and actually release S2.1, S2.2 etc for a small fee each and with a little new content. This could certainly be done if part of the S3 content has already been prepared and it doesn't fit in some kind of a bigger plan.

[Cherry]

I like idea, that good tracks can be added by other people than devs. Devs have enough work. But when track can be made, I strongly want them to be judged by moderators, because else a lot of crap will be wasting LFS's precious cyber-space.

But as I (think, I) know what devs/moderators think about it: IBTL (http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r136/Romulus32/ibtl.gif)

[joshdifabio]

It's difficult to think of real life circuits that don't have chicanes though ;)
Completely wrong.

[DeadWolfBones]

Completely wrong.

And moreover, the ones that DO have chicanes have them largely due to safety reasons, which we can blithely ignore in the simulated racing world.

[chunkyracer]

btw chunkyracer Microsoft did it also with FSX regarding licensing, they officially do not support or make advertising with the add-on planes or helicopters, but they supported strongly others to do them.
I´m not familiar with flight simulators, so cant give a comment on that. Maybe I´m understanding it all wrong, but what I fail to see is how something like what you want could be done. You want LFS open for modding, but not for everyone, so it doesn´t go the RFactor way. At the same time you want real life tracks, which would mean that those selected few that would have the tools and the knowledge to mod LFS, could not be directly suported or have their work distributed by the LFS devs, to avoid licensing issues. Sorry, but I don´t see how a scheme like this could be done without it backfiring in devs faces, and with them spending 80% of their time explaining in this forum how some people can mod the game and others don´t, and how at the same time they don´t have nothing to do with it... So, honestly I prefer and think it´s best for the future of LFS that they keep focused on making LFS a better simulator.

[Speed Soro]

:thumb:YES:thumb:

Of course it would demand a good committee for approval of the mods.

And I propose the creation of the WWC4RMS - World Wide Committee For Racing Mod Standardization

Serious, I can't see any problem with mods since they are well controled by the DEVs and a small group of serious and experienced simracers.

It would be a great addition to the game, and surely, it will be really good to have new tracks based on real life locations.

To reject the mods, is to send the big talents of the community to other communties.

Countries that don't give the chance to their talents, lose these talents for others countries.

Companies that don't give the chance to their talents, lose these talents to the others companies.

And so on.

Why not? I repeat yes.

[S14 DRIFT]

Why type in weird font?

Nordeschliefe is the only real track I'd want in LFS. If it doesn't come along, I'll survive, I'm sure.

[bbman]

Because its a topic for discussion. I wasnt in the other discussions about this which mainly were about modding physics and cars anyway - what this is not about. I dont see how this Thread forces you to participate in it if you dont have no interest. First you was kind of like why dont you discuss iRacing, then you want to make this thread end. Just stay out of it if you dont care about it.

Yes, exactly that was my intention, I wanted to end a thread I don't have any interest in but which forces me to participate somehow... Are you Einstein reborn? :rolleyes: But it conveniently sidestepped answering my question...

Or shall I call you Don Quijote the 138th in the goal of "opening" LfS? Maybe I should come to your house with a bunch of like-minded people to request you opening your door so that we can improve it... :scratchch See, if you can't take a no for an answer, why should I?

[sk8line69]

i think even with just 1 team making tracks they would make to many and there would be empty servers with combinations people don't know or care to learn

[AlienT.]

.

If you'd asked me a year ago I would have said that their is plenty of content to keep everyone happy in LFS, infact LFS was all I played. Now I'm not so sure :shrug:

I have been drifting away from LFS to the likes of iRacing and would probably not play LFS at all any more if it wasn't from my buddies in our LFS team who are the first set of online friends that I've ever come across. Still the community in LFS is the best IMO.

Regarding mods I must say that the power and Glory mod for GTL/GTR2 is very well and professionally done. There is no reason why the community could not come up with outstanding mods for LFS.

I suppose this discussion could go on forever and at the end of the day it's up to the developers what they do with their sim :shrug:

[CarlLefrancois]

No.

People ask why not? Because that's not what LFS is about! LFS got where it is because the devs chose their priorities very carefully and their main goal seems to be to give us the tools to race each other online.

Think of club racers who meet at a local track every so often to race. Can you imagine one of them coming up and saying " hey we should really rip up turns x, y and lay some new asphalt! this old track is so BORING ". ... :shrug:

No, LFS is about driving at the limit and having someone close to you doing the same thing. People who do that have a lot of fun. People who give up early wish they could race elsewhere.

Go play NEED for speed :razz:

Besides, if there should be any new content in LFS, it should be 4D sports driving (with the track editor) :D

[Woz]

I used to say no to modding. That said I have not touched LFS in a while now because after so many years I want new tracks. I am not that fussed about new cars but tracks are what would bring LFS back to life for me.

I see lots of new people say stuff like "There is enough content blah blah blah".

Come back after you have played LFS as long as some of us here (I have been around LFS 5.5 years) and lets see where you stand :)

[RobbyMac]

Have a track building contest.
Devs gives outlines/rules on file type, image maps, etc...
then they choose which ones they want to implement. Most of the hard work has been done, and they get to control whats added into the game as they see fit.

[NightShift]

Think of club racers who meet at a local track every so often to race. Can you imagine one of them coming up and saying " hey we should really rip up turns x, y and lay some new asphalt! this old track is so BORING ". ... :shrug:

And can you imagine to take a flight to Jamaica every time you switch from Blackwood to Fern Bay?

Do you stare at your room's ceiling for 8 hours imagining yourself on the plane?

[dapriadi]

Yes its my first post... eventhough I started using this SIM sometimes ago.

Thread like this will work in iRacing ... iRacing devs will give what their customers want. Why?? because keeping the customers stay with them is their main goal so they can eat! Remember, we pay montly subcription so they have to make sure that we are happy with what we get.

LFS is a different story. They have got our money already when we purchased this SIM and with or without new tracks, they will still get the money from the new comers and by us the old users stop playing this SIM, it doesn't reduce their income! but it would be nice if the devs themselves can create a new track if they don't want other people doing it.

My 0.02

[Shadowww]

:thumb:YES:thumb:

Of course it would demand a good committee for approval of the mods.

And I propose the creation of the WWC4RMS - World Wide Committee For Racing Mod Standardization

Serious, I can't see any problem with mods since they are well controled by the DEVs and a small group of serious and experienced simracers.

It would be a great addition to the game, and surely, it will be really good to have new tracks based on real life locations.

To reject the mods, is to send the big talents of the community to other communties.

Countries that don't give the chance to their talents, lose these talents for others countries.

Companies that don't give the chance to their talents, lose these talents to the others companies.

And so on.

Why not? I repeat yes.


Yes I think that you are right.

[Mrwei]

Don't talk about this any more,what we only can do is waiting..............

See what's going to happen.:shrug:

[gacek1]

Nordeschliefe is the only real track I'd want in LFS. If it doesn't come along, I'll survive, I'm sure.
Nordeschliefe in LFS = more crashes, bad idea :(
Little explain:
-racer connected
-racer2 connected
-racer: shift + r plx!11
-racer vote for the restart
-racer2 vote for the restart
RESTART
3 mins later...
CAUTION, RACER CRASHED
-racer2: lolololololo
-racer vote for the restart
RESTART
-racer2 disconnected

This will happen on every server..

[Shadowww]

Nordeschliefe in LFS = more crashes, bad idea :(
Little explain:
-racer connected
-racer2 connected
-racer: shift + r plx!11
-racer vote for the restart
-racer2 vote for the restart
RESTART
3 mins later...
CAUTION, RACER CRASHED
-racer2: lolololololo
-racer vote for the restart
RESTART
-racer2 disconnected

This will happen on every server..
http://img.lejup.lv/images/1236111971.jpg


Just use InSim that cancels restart voting.

[ColeusRattus]

This thread is completely beside the point. The Scawen has said several times why there is no intention to allow mods yet: LfS is in developement, and a patch could (and most likely will) render any mods incompatible, be it tracks or cars. Thus, as long as LfS is still in developement, we won't see any. But he hinted that once LfS is finished (whatever that means), there is a chance they release mod tools.

On a sidenote: Everyone who wants mods and hasn't played rFactor should immediately do so, to see what a mess that would be...

The only thing that would make it possible to have modding would be an internal "market place" which would automatically download the newest versions of all installed mods.

And last, concerning new and possibly real tracks: I for one wouldn't mind if I'd have to pay a one time fee for a new track, be it to cover licensing costs or paying a freelance artist, as long as it comes in the LfS look and feel.

[The Very End]

You nailed it there, Scawen has said maybe, but that's after LFS is "complete" in thei eyes, and trust me, that will not happen on 20 years, so give up allready.

I still think it would be cool to have some sort of test servers from the dev's side, where they could test out community made cars/tracks. The tracks and cars would be downloaded from the server. People who (they would need to ask in advantage the devs and ask them to upload it there) had their cars / tracks there that was approved by the devs to be tested, would need to pay some money to cover the server load, aswell to only get serious people. Then, if the testing goes fine, then maybe the devs could release it in a patch. The devs would by this earn more money, offer more content to LFS and I am pretty damn sure it would be awesome.
There would of course be limitations, like, you could not make anything that could conflict with lisence agreement, everything added would need to be fantasy based.

Just my two cents.

[GothaR_SVK]

Add-on track are good idea. I can see it on example of another great simulator - Condor: The Competition soaring simulator, it has 2 developers and they like quality products, so every plane there must be finished by them (fans just send them raw 3D model and technical specifications), but we have enough cars in LFS, so I think, that this will just slow down the development, but on the other side - users are allowed do make sceneries for Condor and these sceneries help to keep the simulator alive. So this is the way developers should choose for LFS and I am sure, that it will help LFS.

[Matrixi]

I see lots of new people say stuff like "There is enough content blah blah blah".

Come back after you have played LFS as long as some of us here (I have been around LFS 5.5 years) and lets see where you stand :)

I have noticed this here lately too, and I agree with you completely. It is easy for newbies to say how happy they are with the content that LFS has. Try sticking around for a few more years and your tone will change quite a lot when you'll still find yourself grinding the same old combos over and over.

And for the OP: Hell yes! I wouldn't even mind a total open source approach at this point. Who cares if there are even shitty quality mods out there, no-one forces you to use them. Having something new would be a lot better than just everything same old.

[The Very End]

i have noticed this here lately too, and i agree with you completely. It is easy for newbies to say how happy they are with the content that lfs has. Try sticking around for a few more years and your tone will change quite a lot when you'll still find yourself grinding the same old combos over and over.

And for the op: Hell yes! I wouldn't even mind a total open source approach at this point. Who cares if there are even shitty quality mods out there, no-one forces you to use them. Having something new would be a lot better than just everything same old.

+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+2
C-c-c-COMBO BREAKER!!
+1
+1
+1
...

[gacek1]

Just use InSim that cancels restart voting.
How about crashes on every corner?? :x

[Shadowww]

How about crashes on every corner?? :x
Use AIRIO which can spectate dangerous drivers.

[Speed Soro]

No.

People ask why not? Because that's not what LFS is about! LFS got where it is because the devs chose their priorities very carefully and their main goal seems to be to give us the tools to race each other online.

Think of club racers who meet at a local track every so often to race. Can you imagine one of them coming up and saying " hey we should really rip up turns x, y and lay some new asphalt! this old track is so BORING ". ... :shrug:

No, LFS is about driving at the limit and having someone close to you doing the same thing. People who do that have a lot of fun. People who give up early wish they could race elsewhere.

Go play NEED for speed :razz:

Besides, if there should be any new content in LFS, it should be 4D sports driving (with the track editor) :D

Oh come on. I don't want to offend anyone here, but again this bs "the devs choose this, the devs choose that, they know what they are doing, close topic, blablabla"???

What is the problem with you guys? Can't you just say "No, I don't agree because I think the mods will cause this, cause that, etc"?

Is it always this same pray "The devs, the devs, the devs..."

We can't discuss anything here without concern if Scawen has "a plan" or not?

Please, if you don't like the idea of to have mods some day, and even you know the devs don't intend to open it for mods, try just to justify your choice using reasons, not the "devs whishes" or the "devs plans".

They (the devs) are just human like you and me, and they make mistakes. They can be chosing the wrong way, making wrong decisions, rigth now.

Stop this bs of always give to "the devs" the sure that they have take the right, the best, the unique acceptable decision.

Try to think with your brain, not "the devs" one. Sorry.

[Shadowww]

I hope you will get banned, Mr. Speed Troll.

[joshdifabio]

I hope you will get banned, Mr. Speed Troll.
Personally, I find his input much more valuable than yours.

[RobbyMac]

Having something 'crappy but new' is better than 'great and old'?
Thats like saying 'I want a new kia rather than a '69 vette'

[DodgeRacer]

As creator of tracks for the sim nascar 2003, I can tell you that game would NOT be alive if it were not for me and my co-track creators putting out a steady stream of new quality tracks for the game. (along with cars and such but..I think a large part of it is the tracks)

In my opinion I think scavier should open up track making to people they deem qualified, IF that is they have a track making program or addon for 3dmax that makes it accessible to do so (like sandbox does for nr2k3). These tracks would be screened by mods/devs before release, and be official lfs addons with no illegal use of trademarks ect.

i would LOVE to try out some of my epic road courses WITH lfs's epic physics engine :thumb:

[Gil07]

bla bla bla "the devs" bla bla

It's "the devs" project, not yours. They do whatever they want with LFS, if they say "no mods yet", then it is "no mods yet", whatever you or others might think. What is so hard to understand about that?

[Speed Soro]

No Mr. Gil, we are not here TO KNOW what the devs want or not want. We are here talking about the possibilities, it is apool to the community, not an answer to the devs.

You and all of your team of fanboys should stop this bs NOW!

We are not here complaining about NOTHING. We are not trolling NOTHING.

We are just trying to keep a civilized conversation without the ethernal moans "Oh the devs... oh oh oh"...

This is not another thread "Having sex with Scawen". Let this to him and his wife!

It is impossible to discuss anyhthing here without your team.

WE UNDERSTAND PERFECTLY THE DEVS GOALS, WE ARE NOT RETARDED!

WE KNOW THAT GAME IS CLOSED FOR MOD, WE KNOW THAT THE GAME IS THIS, THE GAME IS THAT.

YOU ARE NOT TALKING WITH IDIOTS!

We just want to discuss something without read "Go play NSF", or "Close Topic", or "Your are a TROLL".

This is fu.... ridiculous! No one here is making any critics to the game.

I think one day Scawen will open this game for mods.

When this day come, I hope this mods be controlled by a committee, or by the devs, and YES, I think there are many talents in the internet making great jobs for OTHERS communities, and they could be making this working for THIS community.

I have no doubt that NEW TRACKS made from scratch, based on real life tracks, would be a PHENOMENAL addition to this game.

The future will say who is right who is wrong, but until there, please STOP REPEATING THE SAME ETHERNAL LITANY.

Please LET THE DEVS, OR WHAT THEM THINK (OR YOU SUPPOSE THEM THINK) OUT OF THE DISCUSSION, AT LEAST ONE TIME!!!

[Gil07]

The future will say who is right who is wrong, but until there, please STOP REPEATING THE SAME ETHERNAL LITANY

Yes please.

Edit: Oh sorry, I mean "Yes PLEASE!".

[Shadowww]

I CAN WRITE WITH BIG LETTERS TOO, THIS DOES NOT MAKES YOU LOOK SMART :nod:

[hannah]

I CAN WRITE WITH BIG LETTERS TOO, THIS DOES NOT MAKES YOU LOOK SMART :nod:

child....


anyway doesnt that chudy guy do something like this? he mods cars and tracks

[AMB]

child....


anyway doesnt that chudy guy do something like this? he mods cars and tracks

He won't release what he makes. :shrug:

[Speed Soro]

As creator of tracks for the sim nascar 2003, I can tell you that game would NOT be alive if it were not for me and my co-track creators putting out a steady stream of new quality tracks for the game. (along with cars and such but..I think a large part of it is the tracks)

In my opinion I think scavier should open up track making to people they deem qualified, IF that is they have a track making program or addon for 3dmax that makes it accessible to do so (like sandbox does for nr2k3). These tracks would be screened by mods/devs before release, and be official lfs addons with no illegal use of trademarks ect.

i would LOVE to try out some of my epic road courses WITH lfs's epic physics engine :thumb:

Back to the topic, glad to see someone with property to say something about mods.

It is a fact that games like GPL and Nascar2003 just live until today due the community work, the good works of course.

Hope some day people like you have the chance to express your talent with LFS too, and give to us some good tracks (and cars, why not?) so we can enjoy even more of this great simulator.


Edit: just as an example how good can be the mods, even with limited access to the core, this is one of the great guys who will some day make much more for the game: http://www.kegetys.net/lfs/

We have many mods here and people enjoy them. Ok, those are just client side, and affect nothing to the multiplayer, but there are no reasons to think that would be different if tracks were open to some artists too.

[Speed Soro]

I CAN WRITE WITH BIG LETTERS TOO, THIS DOES NOT MAKES YOU LOOK SMART :nod:

You won't look smart even with a mask of Eisten on your head!

(sorry moderation, I can't let this scape, please recognize that was a funny answer)

[J@tko]

You won't look smart even with a mask of Eisten on your head!
:really:

[5haz]

There are more potential tracks for LFS than the Nordschliefe.

Why do people always talk about the Nordschliefe and then argue that not a single community made track should be allowed because the Nordschliefe is to long so too many accidents blah blah blah.

[AMB]

(sorry moderation, I can't let this scape, please recognize that was a funny answer)

Really? :x

[Speed Soro]

Really? :x No? :( sorry.


5Haz, really. There are hundreds of good tracks that would fit perfect with LFS.

Can you imagine XFG at Monaco? Or LX4 in Zandvoort, GTRs in Monza? Oh dear, that would be really good :)

I don't understand this Green Hell preocupation. 4 laps at KY is bigger than 1 in GH... that is not so big...

[AMB]

Nice try speed :)

XFG @ Nurburgring ftw 20 min laps lol.....

[ColeusRattus]

Soro, Scawen did actually say that there wont be modding until LfS is complete, I'm just too lazy to search for the post right now.

On a sidenote, as I seem to be rather obsessed with the Nordschleife lately, you'd be really slow if you'd take 20 minutes. should be within 10 in something adequately sporty ;)

[Gills4life]

Scawen said there would be no modding until (maybe) lfs was complete. I would assume this is because the game is still being worked on and physics changes would make a lot of mods obsolete.

What physics changes and future patches would make new tracks unusable if this is the case?

[Speed Soro]

Yes, I think everybody here knows that Scawen will not release the game for mods...

We are not asking for it NOW. We are just arguing how it could be IF, but of course we will have to wait.

About GH, lets take the assumption that, whatever reason, some server administrator has the brilliant idea of set a combo with XFG or UF1... well, that would be a looooong turn.

But, can you imagine 32 cars fighting for positions along this road, during all this time, with any equal curve or bump? I think it will be really fun.

But, do you see servers with Kyoto and XFG?

No!

Why?

Because people don't like it. So, I think that, even that crazy admin set a server with such combo, there will be no drivers for race.

I really can't see the problem with that.

GTR Evo come with a great version of GH. Are there servers with this track? Yeap.

People enjoy it? Yeap... but just who want.

There is no one targeting your head with a pistol when you get in the lobby to obligate you to join in the server. You go if you want.

So, what is the big deal? Who want to make a 30 minutes laps, do it!

Do you know? I really dislike DRIFT and CRUISE servers. That is IMO a cancer that is killing LFS scenario. But people are there.

That sucks. By myself I would not give a chance to build a server like this, but there are lots of them, more each day.

A server with Nords and XFG can't be worst.

see u soon

[NightShift]

The only thing that would make it possible to have modding would be an internal "market place" which would automatically download the newest versions of all installed mods.

You mean like LFSworld for skins? :scratchch if the mods are big, downloads would eat a lot of bandwidth, then again we already have LFSW credit for skins, so as long as the price is fair and covers the costs... why not?

[Speed Soro]

I think LFS World could just managed the dl, not to up load the files.
The files could be located in the same servers LFS is today.

[Matrixi]

Do you know? I really dislike DRIFT and CRUISE servers. That is IMO a cancer that is killing LFS scenario.

Nah, that ain't right. Drift servers have been around in LFS since the dawn of the first public servers. Hell, I used to drift in LFS long before you were even licensed! :D

LFS isn't dieing, the userbase is just becoming something other than how it used to be before. Racers are moving on to other sims (iRacing in my case) and younger generations are moving over to LFS to fill up cruise & drift & derby servers. The reason for oldschool racers leaving to other sims is something completely different than only cruise and drift servers filling up of players nowadays. You propably know what that reason is just as well as I do if you really think about it.

[Speed Soro]

Of course I know, and it is better do not discourse about here.
But drif, cruise, derby and other "kids stuff" are contributing too.

[Shadowww]

Of course I know, and it is better do not discourse about here.
But drif, cruise, derby and other "kids stuff" are contributing too.
1. Look for Team Orange on YouTube
2. Are you sure TVE's age is under 18? He was first [citation needed] who made derby racing(!) server in LFS

[The Very End]

There has been a lot of banger servers and such before me tho, so saying I was the first is a little wrong, but thanks for the support tho :)

Well, I am childish of nature, that's for sure so my real age of 21 does maybe not reflect upon this. BUT, a wise man once said that the ones not childish are the ones that can be childish and not affraight to show it.
Well, or something close to that, I enjoy my stuff, even if it's strange. I played DD2 for almost 3 years, and enjoyed every minute of it.
I made it to LFS since I was borred, and wanted to test out how it worked in LFS, to combine crashing with somewhat physics (as I allways have dreamed of a DD3 with somewhat good physics) .

Result was, yes childish, but also fun.

What this had to do with topic I don't know, just wanted to answer that reply.

[S14 DRIFT]

If people constantly act their age, no-one would have fun. You'd be at the pub with your mates and they'd all be talking about accounting and their year on year increase in gross profit. They wouldn't be knocking back Beers, they'd be sipping on a cup of coffee and a £1.99 salad bowl from the supermarket.

Basically, imagine everyone boring all the time... would y'all want that? :)

[Khann]

I just want to say one thing:

Since when have mods killed rFactor?

[Speed Soro]

I just want to say one thing:

Since when have mods killed rFactor?

:D

or GPL...

or Nascar 2003...

or F1 2000...

or Operation Flashpoint...

or Quake...

or...

great point. You win.

[lap traffic nz]

I think a "developers league" would be a good idea, through a voting system of track layout and design ideas, voted on by S2 licensed users the highest voted and most practical track "plans" could be submitted to the devs for approval then work could begin turning these new tracks into reality. Most of the ground work could be compiled by the LFS community with final touches and tweaks done by the devs. Result - tracks people want, i.e. I would like a Bathurst type track with long straights, big altitude changes and tight corners with concrete barriers... no room for error. No licensing problems, even if only one track per year was implemented, most racers would be keen. (maybe I've had too many bourbons, must be time to go and race :) )

[lovretta]

...take the BMW F1 car out on any track, Aston or Blackwood, dont you think the car is awesome, for me its the best F1 car made in any sim ever, its a blast, and everything it does seems comprehensible, when you made a mistake you know exactly what you have done wrong and if you nail a corner it feels awesome, for the first time in a commercially available Sim an F1 car feels great.

But then you take this car on like Aston and you think, yeah this track is fun, but I want to hustle the car around the streets of Monaco, the LFS tracks doesnt do the car justice. You want to take the LFS F1 car around Monaco, Spa, Suzuka, you want to take the LX4 up the hill at Brands Hatch or a multiclass car race on the Nordschleife. We are missing out on these things and there is alot more potential in LFS then we see now.


:thumb::thumb:

Well said!

[rockclan]

I see lots of new people say stuff like "There is enough content blah blah blah".

Come back after you have played LFS as long as some of us here (I have been around LFS 5.5 years) and lets see where you stand :)

I play LFS for aprox 6,3 years :)
I started with demo back in December 2003, and started S2 in 2007.
And I'm still not bored :tilt:


BTW.

The devs once replied my email and said something like:

"We wish to release editors for the public someday, but this is not anywhere in the near future."

[StableX]

Think of club racers who meet at a local track every so often to race. Can you imagine one of them coming up and saying " hey we should really rip up turns x, y and lay some new asphalt! this old track is so BORING ". ... :shrug:



Actually, I don't believe that is what's being said. To use your analogy, what people are actually saying is, hey, we have raced this track for loads of time. How about we take our equipment and go and race somewhere new as well as racing this track! If we were saying what you suggested, people would be asking for changes to already accessible tracks like aston etc! However, while on that note, why don't the dev's allow an open track for each location for the Cruise guys!!!! Bet that opens up for a few comments!

Personally, as much as I'd like to see new content, I beloeve the quality that LFS provides is something to cherish well above the many mods and tracks available in other games that are rather crap! There isn't a location/track in LFS that isn't good fun to race and well made! That's the case for a reason! [I do believe that's a compliment Eric ;)]

[DK_USA]

Drifting....for kids, Bah....whatever

Drifting has at least 4 generations under its belt and is a licensed motorsport..soo

BACK OFF

[Blackknight555]

I don't really understand how people can get bored with the content. Maybe I'm too old and slow, but I still haven't mastered any combo fully and I've been at this for 1.5 years now. Give me a car/track and 4 racers more or less my speed and I don't care where I race or how often I've done it.

So frankly, I think people just have short attention spans. I prefer to be good at 1 combo rather than crap at 15.

How many combos are you within .5 secs of the WR?

I think LFS is for dedicated racers. If you are 2 secs away from the WR and already looking for new tracks and cars maybe you're just not serious enough about it...

aceracer

P.S.: Yes I know this doesn't apply to everyone, and yes there are very very fast drivers out there who also get bored with LFS, but I would estimate that 90% is due to goldfishlike attention span with NFS tendencies :D
Very true,i agree with you 100% there!!

+1

I've only been on LFS for a short while and have already seen way too much complaining about lack of content. I guess I can kinda see how people who have been on LFS since the beginning may be bored, but for a newbie the current content is nearly overwhelming if you really think about it. On the surface it seems like there are only 7 tracks, but with all the different variations and reversals, there are really 50 tracks (not including autocross)! Combine that with 20 cars and that's nearly 1000 different combos (I say nearly because there are cars that aren't suited for rallycross...) Sure, many of the combos are very similar, but as aceracer said, How many are you within .5 sec of WR?
Adding more content/mods may attract previous LFS racers to return, but I doubt it would do much to attract new racers to LFS. To a new LFS racer (a reasonable person who doesn't have the attention span of a goldfish), there is plenty of content as is.
+1000100011000010010110001101
Hmm,so many combos :faint2:

Just for the record i have close to 30 Pb's within 2sec Wr's using all combo's,BUT im not done yet...not by a long shot.....

Ive been around for more than a year or so & plan to be here for a long time,not just a good time:razz:

[Speed Soro]

Bah... combos? Who drives MRT at KY Long or F1 at AS Club?

Lets talk serious. We have 6 tracks, 20 cars, not all of them really enjoyable, and that has been since 2005. Fours years in june.

Combos...

We are talking a multiplayer game, where there is no sense in have combos that nobody plays.

I see Cone Dodgers with its ethernal GTR at As, Redline with its ethernal FOX at BL, and 6 more servers with XFG at BL and UF1 or FOX at SO.

The rest is all drift and cruise.

I want my 2005 euphoria back. Am I asking for too much?

I think it is not yet the time for mods. But when S3 goes gold, why not? That will be the way to keep the game alive for more 10 years, because I believe that this is game is not dead yeat because it has this aura of WIP game. If it was a finished one, I true believe that, closed as it is today, it would be fading to death.

[senn]

BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

lock it. FFS mods please just lock the damn thread. There is NOTHING here that hasn't been gone over 100 times before. This thread will change nothing.

+1 for lock

[tenmantaylor]

I know when people read the word "mod" they think about the rFactor mod situation with thousands of mod out there one worse then the other.

But there are some modding groups (idt for rfactor or GPLEA for GPL) that can really produce excellent work that even tops the work of the professionells. That dont bring out a new version of there content every couple of weeks that dillute and make everything complicated.

What these groups like GPLEA did was kind of a "controlled modding" where quality stands over quantity.

There is alot of talent out there in the LFS community and it is wasted, think about the Nürburgring Nordschleife or Spa in rFactor, done by hugely talented enthusiasts in the community, talent that LFS has aswell, and all these tracks rFactor has LFS could have aswell, maybe in even better quality.

But the danger is allowing thousands of people and giving the tools to them to create tracks in LFS, we would have very quickly 5 different versions of Monte Carlo, 3 versions of Spa etc. LFS would be a mess like rFactor.

But what if there would be only 1 add on Team in the community. Only that one team would get unofficial support and the tools to create tracks for LFS.

That exclusive modding Team would consist of the brightest, most talented hand-picked artists from within the community, who only produce quality content for LFS, mainly tracks. There is enough talent out there to produce any type of track in the world for LFS in brilliant quality, if its done in an organized, protected and quality assuring way.

Im all for it George, some excellent work was done by the GPLEA down the years making it unrecognisable for the better.

In the absence of any obvious forward direction for LFS I think an LFSEA that submits work to Scawen for release and continuity with the existing game would be amazing. :up:

[Speed Soro]

BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

lock it. FFS mods please just lock the damn thread. There is NOTHING here that hasn't been gone over 100 times before. This thread will change nothing.

+1 for lock

Have you forgotten to take your pills today? God...

[senn]

not at all. I'm just sick to death of threads starting, going over the same BS over, and over, and over again. Unless the devs decide that they want it, what is the point in discussing it, again? What do you hope to achieve?
Think you've got something to offer that hasn't been gone over before?

Sick of the same tired old arguments etc. Accept the way it is. Stop starting redundant threads about shit that has been discussed to death already, i'm begging you. (all of you)

[r8response]

Drifting....for kids, Bah....whatever

Drifting has at least 4 generations under its belt and is a licensed motorsport..soo

BACK OFF


DRIFTING is when your in a boat and its run out of fuel!

[BOSCHO]

DRIFTING is when your in a boat and its run out of fuel!

very clever :really:

[Speed Soro]

very clever :really:

Bah, I think LFS was made to be a RACING simulator, and DRIF, CRUISE, DRAG and DERBY are definitely not racing.

Motor sport?

Well, I don't see Drift as sport, but circus show. Clowns and jugglers are not seen as sportmen.

Drag? No comments.

Cruise? better to play TDU.

Derby? Go play Flatout or Burnout.

Racing? Well, I think is that what it is: http://www.lfs.net/?page=moreabout

[Khann]

Bah, I think LFS was made to be a RACING simulator, and DRIF, CRUISE, DRAG and DERBY are definitely not racing.

Motor sport?

Well, I don't see Drift as sport, but circus show. Clowns and jugglers are not seen as sportmen.

Drag? No comments.

Cruise? better to play TDU.

Derby? Go play Flatout or Burnout.

Racing? Well, I think is that what it is: http://www.lfs.net/?page=moreabout

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how drifting and drag racing are not racing..

[Furiously-Fast]

Bah, I think LFS was made to be a RACING simulator, and DRIF, CRUISE, DRAG and DERBY are definitely not racing.

Motor sport?

Well, I don't see Drift as sport, but circus show. Clowns and jugglers are not seen as sportmen.

Drag? No comments.

Cruise? better to play TDU.

Derby? Go play Flatout or Burnout.

Racing? Well, I think is that what it is: http://www.lfs.net/?page=moreabout

Tbh, some owners of LFS wouldn't give a damn about that. People find the different possibilities that the game could have. Why should everyone be forced to go online for the same reason? It's better to have different modes. IMO, I think the devs should support these kinda things. It will create a wider audience of people who want to play LFS.

[Shadowww]

I think LFS was made to be a RACING simulator, and DRIF, CRUISE, DRAG and DERBY are definitely not racing
So they included drag track by accident? This bug srsly needs to be fixed ASAP.

[Heiko1]

that track wasnt an accident like you..:x xD


its for acclearating testing :D and making good setups